Thinking About Death

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 926.

Tommy: Happy Fat Friday, Gronks. What's happening? What is going on?

Josh: You were talking, uh, at the earlier in the week about, uh, shaving your body, feeling a bit self-conscious, wanting to dial it in. What are you having for Fat Fridays today?

Tommy: Well, um, mate, I've been absolutely on fire. With my diet, my exercise.

Josh: What exercise are you doing?

Tommy: I've been training at the outdoor little equipment. So just basic squats, chins, presses, dips, crunches, stretching. Do people call them chins? Yeah, you call them chins. That's what you call them, chins. You wanna do a set of chins, mate? Nah, you're set, you're set, bro. So today, which here's the byproduct of me on fire is that I'm sniffing around health food aisles in supermarkets and chemists these days because I'm looking for something a little sweet, but something that won't break, break the bank, if you know what I mean, the calorie bank. And so I've got protein mousse. Oh, I mean, the thing about— here's the thing, here's the thing, um, you can convince yourself, as much as we think we're smart, you can also convince yourself that healthy treats that aren't packed full of crap A full, really tasty.

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: Really tasty.

Josh: You need to have a few weeks of not eating real dessert. Oh, my God. You've got it in a Pyrex. That looks—

Tommy: I went all out.

Josh: Oh, can you just hold up? Oh, no, that's going to make me vomit.

Tommy: Dude, it tastes great. Oh, my God.

Josh: It looks like the sick horse. It's not good. PVA glue.

Tommy: Wow.

Josh: What does it taste like?

Tommy: It's fluffy. Oh no, that is, you know, it tastes like a health food store, but like a protein store, not one of the Whole Foods vibes.

Josh: I've got something way nicer, a Bliss Ball. This is the choc orange from, uh, Is it Keep It Cleaner? Yeah, Keep It Clean.

Tommy: Did you, um, is that from the COVID safe kit that I collected?

Josh: No, this is actually, um, I just panicked and said to Bray, what have you got? Um, I was hoping there's some Hey Tiger or something, but no, um, I'm having a Bliss Ball. Let's have a look.

Tommy: Orange. Look, I tell you what, there's a lot of thought in life put into food, food with whether it's negative or positive, we don't need to make this episode about food, like we don't struggle to do a lot of times. One thing that people don't struggle to not think about is death. Does that make sense?

Josh: We're always thinking about death?

Tommy: No, we're normally not. So we don't struggle to not think about it because We convince ourselves, whether it's an actual conscious thought of, well, I'm not gonna fucking die. But I think the undertone of living life, I mean, the thought is— I mean, it's not really present for a lot of people. If you're constantly thinking about death, it is confronting.

Josh: So do you think it's good to think about death?

Tommy: So I think it's negative. I think there's a negative in not thinking about it and avoiding thinking about it, which I think is completely fucking normal to avoid it like the plague. I can't— I don't know if you can say that these days, but like the coronavirus, we're all fucking avoiding it, putting our masks on. Um, so you've got, uh, so last night listening to a podcast, um, there's a guy who His name is Jason Rosenthal, and he— it's, I mean, pretty crazy. He became famous after his wife got diagnosed with terminal cancer. She wrote an article in the New York Times. Do you have that subscription still?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, great. Can you actually flick me the login details at some point after this discussion?

Josh: I can just grab it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, great. There's an article that his wife wrote before she passed away, and it was called "You May Want to Marry My Husband." And it's very famous. It got a lot of attention. I haven't read the article. I'm sure I'll fucking be crying when I read it. But you can only imagine she wrote it. She was a writer. This was her, you know, vibe. And so, she put this kind of like an essay out. In the New York Times, um, and you can only take from, you know, the title of it because I haven't read it. I can't tell you what's in it, but from what he says in this interview, 'You May Want to Marry My Husband.' So it's talking about her and about to leave, and, you know, she, she passed away because it was terminal cancer. But them talk— him just talking about how we live in a society where everyone's convinced they're not going to die. To some degree. You live your life like you're not going to. And so I started listening to this podcast last night, and you know when you're in a mode where you're like, it's, it's like food almost. I just want to— it's the consumption. I want to listen to something that makes me feel good, you know? Yeah, I wasn't in a mood to hear about death, and that in its essence is the avoidance of thinking or being in a scenario where you think about death. I've had lots of friends die. I've thought about death a bunch of times. I still don't fucking like the thought of it.

Josh: But also, you spoke the other day about problem solving.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: The biggest problem potentially a person has is that they're going to die.

Tommy: Well, I mean, it's the consistent problem. I mean, the problem is the point here if you're looking at it as a problem.

Josh: Well, this is what I mean. So it's like, why are you thinking about death? To try and solve the problem?

Tommy: Well, I think you need to— so what you can't do is prevent— it's inevitable for everybody at some point. So there's no solving of that problem unless you're maybe Elon Musk, who somehow works out how to change his body over to another one. But that's not everybody. So I don't think that we're thinking about how it's not problem solving to that degree. It's, it's our ability to understand and find out where it fits within what, what we've got going on. And so just if you listen to some teachings around, you know, there's Ram Dass, my guru, one of my gurus. He, um, that's the book I bought, Be Here Now. He, um, has spent a lot of time with people who are dying. And, um, and crazy, like, his experience being with some people who, uh, you know, days away from passing, passing away. The euphoria some of these people have been in, a state of euphoria at the last moments.

Josh: And just his, him talking through it, it's just having to deal with any admin. Imagine it, like, imagine not having to, like Yeah, what would you do if you thought— if you found out, uh, Tommy, you're gonna die in 6 months?

Tommy: Oh, I would, I would, I would go so deep into the meditation space.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, I feel like, I feel like from the teachings and listening to this stuff, there is less of a concern about it.

Josh: Not to say that I don't roller coaster like that sort of thing, like sort of the bucket list.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't know if it would be that. I don't know if I would. Yeah, I think that is the immediate response. It's like, how do I get my fucking life? Because what then you're doing is the bucket list item thing is a version of, if I do this, I will then feel this. Whereas the, you know, the teachings of mindfulness and meditation you can find these resources in any moment versus needing the thing to happen. So, it's like a— It's in our head that I need to fucking travel to see the pyramids.

Josh: But what about like a legacy for your family being like, oh, you left it a bit late.

Tommy: If I have to try and build my legacy in 6 months.

Josh: Well, no, imagine that. Wouldn't you want to? It's like, okay, well, what does Bodhi want to know? What do I need?

Tommy: Definitely, definitely. Like, that's the kind of stuff. That's the kind of stuff. Not the leaving behind a, you know, a wealth of, uh, leaving behind any money.

Josh: No, but there is that thing. I could just imagine, um, going, okay, storey time, 2 hours a day, just gonna just teach you stuff.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which the problem is, JJ, you fucking would be annoyed if you left it to the last 6 months to have had that approach. So it is like, what's the— the YOLO whole thing is like, you only live once, do everything that you can while you're in good health or while you at least can. So there is a version of that. So you— all we've just talked about is being more present and telling and directing the attention. Like, there's something powerful in living like that is the case. And communicating and being present with the people, um, that matter, to give them everything. And because then that is the— looking back, you would be like, fuck, if you'd worked your ass off and weren't home at all. I mean, it's all well and good to say this right now when there's nothing going on, um, but it is— I mean, I was just looking at some— I was just looking up like, quote, uh, There seems to be just in what— when I'm listening to people talking about death, they're referencing people from, you know, Socrates up until people these days who are quoting that have a very similar thing. So it's—

Josh: you're gonna give us a few memes again?

Tommy: No, these aren't memes unless we're gonna call Socrates and Plato, um, if they've fallen into meme culture.

Josh: I think that, yeah, I'm definitely— I'm sure that there's some Stoic, uh, memes or some philosophy.

Tommy: Absolutely, absolutely. Socrates, he says, to fear death, gentlemen, is no other than to think oneself wise when one is not, to think one knows what one does not know. No one knows whether death may be the greatest of all blessings for a man, yet men fear it as if they knew that it is the greatest of evils. I mean, it took me a few times to read that and process it, just with how it's written. But it is like we— you're scared about something we don't actually know about. Look at the people who are—

Josh: death could be great.

Tommy: Well, I mean, look at, uh, I think it's martyrdom. It's like, you know, the once you die, you, you have, um, you know, 30— why, 30 virgins or something waiting for you, or something crazy like that. The reality is that if that is your belief system, that it is something on the other side that is peaceful or whatever it be.

Josh: It's a, it's a, I know it's an excessive, excessive, um, TikTok is on the other side of death.

Tommy: So, I just want to— it's like paradise awaits, you know. It's like, it's, it gets into the dark territory of where, um, terrorists are thinking that their actions are going to take them to paradise, which is You know, whatever. But my point being is that there's options. There's options for how we view it. And it's interesting because I am in the camp, if you are, where I probably avoid thinking about it and talking about this shit. And so, because I think that's just more normal, it actually— But I don't know if it gives the reward of peace.

Josh: You were actively avoiding it, or are you just not thinking about it?

Tommy: Well, I think an active— so me actively avoiding it would have been, which I have in the past and I probably will in the future, turn off a podcast that is going to talk about something pretty deep, and I didn't want to feel it. I didn't want to feel that. And so that's a conscious choice on my end, whereas I did— I pushed through. I'm like Okay, and I fucking enjoyed it. It was great. It was really insightful. And just, I mean, I felt like, I felt peaceful in the time listening to this person reflect on their partner and, you know, their wife. And, um, and then the discussion about what it all means and what we don't know and how, how we can live through this thing. You know, it's, it was just interesting that I, yeah, caught myself really not wanting to. It's like, dude, I don't sometimes don't want to watch a sad movie. Because I don't want to get sad. I don't want to feel sad.

Josh: Yeah, the negativity. For me, I just can't do the anything like human trafficking, sex trafficking, pedophilia, like all of those things. I'm glad you really— But they're just dark. They're just too dark. I just feel like it is, and it's a privileged position to be in where it's like, I don't want to enter into that. I don't want to even sort of crime stuff. Like when I was a kid, I used to be into— I used to watch the Crime Channel on Foxtel.

Tommy: That was actually good, dude. That was a quality channel for quite some time.

Josh: Yeah. But I feel that this sort of crime podcast stuff, just it's all a bit, it's pretty negative, pretty dark.

Tommy: I mean, it puts you into a space. So, what about this? The death penalty, which is a— I mean, we're kind of going off the— Imagine being on the death penalty. So, you're not sick, but you just have an impending death, which is sooner than most likely whatever higher power is going to, you know, put down on you. So there's a woman, um, in the States at the moment on death row, and I think she's— it is— it's sort of been pushed out. And I was, I was like, they were talking about just like it not being humane, it being sort of The law is changing, so then she will be one of the first people in this state to be executed. Initially, you're like, fuck, I don't know who deserves to be dead, killed, who deserves that, no matter what you've done, like put away for a long time or whatever. It seems— I mean, we don't have it here. It's never going to be in Australia. I couldn't imagine ever. If anything, it's going the other way where they just keep people in prison. I looked up what this woman had done. Do you want to know?

Josh: I don't know, it's— I can't tell what it's going to be. It's going to be bad.

Tommy: Stalked a pregnant woman, killed her, and removed the baby from inside her stomach.

Josh: Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.

Tommy: And so at that point you're like, holy shit, fuck, I really understand probably why they handed down that death sentence. That's fucked. But then at the same time, it's like the discussion of is the death penalty? Should that even be a thing? I don't have the answer. I don't have the answer. I don't— It seems weird that, you know, like it's—

Josh: It seems weird that like we are playing God in that regard. Like, it feels there's a difference between locking someone up and removing them from society and then saying, okay, we're going to take their life.

Tommy: Yeah, dude.

Josh: Even like the most fucked up stuff. Yeah. I just feels very odd, especially like when you talk about not knowing what death actually is, where you go, what happens, all that sort of thing. It's sort of a bit weird to think you're just sort of like ending it. Yeah. But then if you go really dark, you start thinking about like, oh, animals and putting down your pet. Or even like eating meat. It's all very weird.

Tommy: I mean, think about the famous executions in our time. It's like, um, Saddam Hussein. He was the president and then he gets executed. You know, it's old school. He got hung.

Josh: And then, well, yeah, I find it interesting. All the, um, I went down a rabbit hole. What about like, um, North Korean, the Kim Jong-un's brother, whatever, who's in KL just chilling at the airport, has someone, you know, put some sort of chemical on his mouth, on his nose or whatever, kills him. Like, that's full on. Have you seen that the son of the guy, so Kim Jong-un's nephew, is apparently in hiding and he's being hidden by the CIA. You heard that?

Tommy: Is this, is this confirmed?

Josh: That's fucking— I mean, it was, it was, it was on a bunch of news, news sites. But so apparently after it all happened, after his dad was killed, he was in Macau, maybe. I think it is Macau. Where's Macau?

Tommy: No, that's, um, near Singapore. Uh, Taiwan. China. Macau. It's its own little island. Yeah.

Josh: And so, I think he was there or whatever and basically was going to hide on his way to, I think, Taiwan. When he got there to sort of hide away, the CIA intercepted him and was like, hey, come with us type of thing. But I do wonder, it's like, who the fuck? Like, you think about death and all that sort of thing, then you think about all the shit we don't know about. Just weird shit. Think about— have you seen ScoMo's doing all these, um, he's loving Instagram and stuff at the moment. Just him on his exercise bike, he's in shorts and, uh, and his thongs. And then there was a, um, there was a piece around like— well, uh, it's sort of—

Tommy: it's silly stuff.

Josh: So there's, there's, there's, uh, photos of him Making a chicken house thing, chicken coop or whatever it's called.

Tommy: Oh, yeah, that was the one I wanted to get. I want to get that one.

Josh: Yeah. And so—

Tommy: Scott Morrison is our prime minister, is the prime minister of this country.

Josh: And so, the question is, has ScoMo, has he actually made the chicken coop or has he just got the photo of him doing it with a hammer and then just goes back to normal work?

Tommy: Nah, I reckon he's doing it. I reckon he's got a happy life.

Josh: But then you also see him—

Tommy: You wouldn't find Trump doing it. Trump's not doing that.

Josh: Yeah, but I don't know. I wonder, like, maybe it's just, it's very low-level propaganda.

Tommy: It's all for showy.

Josh: But it's, yeah, it's all for show. It's just a photo op. There's a shot of him, like, him doing exercise on the exercise bike. How long was he on the exercise bike for? Has he really done a full workout or has he done 30 seconds, gotten the photo and jumped off?

Tommy: I mean, is he an influencer? Him doing a— so, mate, he's struggling in the follow department. I mean, I can't talk, but he's got 229,000.

Josh: Well, he's got like the photo of him, it almost looks like he's doing barre or whatever. But the thing is, he's wearing a suit. Yeah, he's wearing a suit. He's definitely like— that's a great example. He's definitely just done 2 or 3 photo ops and then left.

Tommy: I mean, who is— Do you think ScoMo is on Insta? Do you think he's active on Insta?

Josh: Personally, no.

Tommy: Absolutely not. Like, I mean, who's he follow? You could get a bit—

Josh: Did you see the Pope got in— The Pope's Twitter account liked a Brazilian bikini model? Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, God.

Josh: A full investigation.

Tommy: There is a full investigation, is there?

Josh: Pope bikini.

Tommy: Well, he follows like, listen to this, he follows, this is the Australian Prime Minister, Nova 91.9, Nova 106.9, like he follows all the radio stations, the radio hosts.

Josh: Really? This is the Pope?

Tommy: No, no, no, sorry, this is Scott Morrison.

Josh: Oh, I thought the Pope was following Nova. That's quite funny.

Tommy: He follows 10 Downing Street, Boris Johnson, like he's You see where he's— if he's not following Trump, yeah, I wonder if he's, um, you know, that's a signal.

Josh: So just reading, um, NBC News, they say this was on November 21st, the Vatican is investigating how the official Instagram account of Pope Francis liked a photo of a model in a schoolgirl outfit. A spokesperson for the Vatican told NBC News on Friday that was seeking answers from the popular social media app. What do you— what is this? I love that they're seeking answers from Instagram, like, rather than just being like, Francis, what the fuck are you liking? It's like, nah, it's got to be Instagram. We're studying what— I love this— we're studying what happened with the help of the competent office at Instagram. I think it's just an accidental double tap.

Tommy: Uh, could they tell what device it was coming from? Like, so could you nail it down to an IP address or something?

Josh: Instagram would be able to— account ID, sorry, a device ID, they would be able to work it out. Yeah, no problem. Um, yeah, I think that, uh, at least I'm going to heaven, the model joked on Twitter.

Tommy: That's funny. Yeah, I mean, what's her name? Let's give her a shout out. Yeah, the Pope made her famous for the right reasons.

Josh: Does not follow anyone on his widely popular Instagram account, which has more than 7.5 4 million followers. Yeah. Gariboto, Gariboto, who has 2.4 million Instagram followers, took the endorsement with pride.

Tommy: I mean, for the people that follow zero people, and if you're getting a like from them, it's clear that they're stalking you. You know what I mean? Or they're in the discovery. I mean, I don't even know what would happen if you delete everyone. It just pushes random shit to you. What about—

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: A fresh account not attached to any phone number or email address that has ever had an account. What are you given? Is it Australian content if you're in Oz?

Josh: Well, so there used to be back in the day, there was a, like when you signed up, I guess it still does this, but when you signed up for Twitter, they would have a recommendation list. And so, recommended followers. So, there was people who had, you know, millions of followers based on being put in the recommendation list. By the way, what is that? How's the choccy mousse going or whatever? What is it?

Tommy: Vanilla.

Josh: Vanilla.

Tommy: It's thick, it's creamy, it's moussey. I like it. I mean, this is the thing. If I was, if I had been eating the diet that I had been 3 weeks ago, I would have been like your face.

Josh: But I just think the consi— I just feel like the alternative things where it's like trying to be something it's not.

Tommy: Yeah, I get it.

Josh: Because it's—

Tommy: I get it.

Josh: Even you can hear it in your mouth, it's a bit— Yeah, but that's mousse.

Tommy: If I had chocolate mousse, it'd be the same vibe. Same vibe. Unless it was the fluffy mousse from Pizza Hut, all you can eat. That shit's to die for.

Josh: It's quite good. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, it's— Yeah, some big things that we don't have answers to. But no one does. Socrates was talking about this, you know, 1,000 years ago, however old he was. Very long time ago. Yeah.

Josh: If a pope likes an Instagram model in the woods, did the— what's the, what's the saying? I can't remember.

Tommy: Did the tree actually fall over?

Josh: Uh, it's a daily talk show. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We, we actually had a, a couple of reviews. I'll keep them for, um, next week, but But, uh, please, in the meantime, uh, leave one if you haven't already. Share on Instagram as well. Send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.