Josh Janssen: [00:00:00] It's the daily talk show episode 904 Tommy jacket. Did you just talk the intro?
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:09] I think I might have that's okay. That's all right. You know, you win some, you lose some out of 904 episodes.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:15] I mean, the, when you're watching the election unfold, you can see the news anchors slowly deteriorate just like you did them.
Like it gets a little bit. Sloppy you say they're putting on their glasses to try and read the prompter? Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:31] Is it like the 24 hour live streamers episode? We did just, you just get, you just do your mouth is moving. You don't know. How did you ever re I mean, yesterday, we were talking a lot about SIS and special forces and secret service.
Did you ever, I was fascinated as a kid about hearing about. People who could sleep with their eyes open. It sounds dumb. Do you remember that? It's like, man, they've got, can sleep with these fucking eyes open.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:57] Yeah. I mean the, a SIS versus a SCO, which industry do you want to be in?
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:07] There's nothing sexier than some search engine optimization
Josh Janssen: [00:01:12] the front front of the show. Thought I would say thank you to a couple of the reviews that we've had on Apple podcasts. Kayla says best. Find to love this podcast. I've got lots of spare time being announced, stay at home mum. So makes prepping the dinner, hanging the washing out, not so tedious.
Quite often. My husband asks me why I'm laughing and what was so funny. Keep it up. Team shifty. Steve's zero two. As the tele talk show is both amazingly entertaining. And relatable for all aspects of life. Love, listening to all the stories, advice, banter, and all the great guests they have on. I find it inspiring at what Josh and Tommy are creating.
Do yourself a favor. Thank you. Uh, thank you. Shifty Steve. Uh, I mean, I spoke a while ago about, um, 10 seconds of admin. Do
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:02] you remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Just a little, little zinger.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:06] Yes. I haven't had had a bunch of stings and it would, and I don't even have it in my actual software anymore, but it would be 10 seconds of admin.
Do you want me to do a read on,
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:17] I guess you can just do a real one.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:20] Yeah. Well, I'll just say, you know, 10 seconds of admin. You like the daily talk show? Well, share on Instagram, do an Insta story and tag the daily talk show, or even give it a share
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:34] 20% less carnival than that really like, well, yeah, I don't think it was up at that level of kind of
Josh Janssen: [00:02:42] 10 seconds of admin.
Like that
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:44] there was something like, yeah, it was a bit like that. I mean, you don't like admin, so it was admin to even do those things about admin. So it's short and sweet.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:54] They were good. I actually, um, I have a new mentor who I know, so I've, I've got, I, I know, um, uh, Pete shepherds that, you know, don't have to ask.
Whether someone will be your mentor, it just sort of happens. Oh, you've asked, but I sort of cemented it. Yeah. So I, um, I was talking to a GM Jess, the weird just Lucas here, and we're talking about some of the admin and it came up because, uh, yesterday we had a, uh, you know, things are starting to get back into action.
And, uh, one of our clients is a school and, uh, they said, Uh, yeah, everyone just needs to get their working with children's check, blah, blah, blah, for the shoot. And, uh, we had a pre production meeting and I'd, I'd known about the, the working with kids check for a long time. I actually had a volunteer one from years ago.
Yep. And, uh, didn't get around to the admin because I had to go to the post office and get a photo. I was like, Look, I'll have it by the shoot day. It will be fine. Rock up to the school for the meeting time to check in. They're like, um, just need your, uh, working with children's as like, ah, well, I've just made it just meeting one of the staff members, you know, we're not, I got it.
Doesn't matter. Oh, it's not, it's not ideal. You don't feel great. I was sweating bullets. But it's just, um, yeah, it's not a great situation to be in at the front, like being declined, access to a school it's not good for on your record. Yeah. And it's just because everyone's just looking around as this guy is just sweating, being like, sorry.
So you kind of come in type of thing and you're wearing a new shirt now. I didn't have my new shirt. Well, this is the thing I even said to, like, I was just first meeting out of the gate from COVID. And it was just, it was a lot of work, like just mad. It's gone. Re-ask on your,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:48] your masking, a majority of your vision communication cues.
Right. Without
Josh Janssen: [00:04:54] also internalizing all my hate, you know, I run hot. Yeah. And so I'm just feeling a bit sweaty, but the other thing too is I didn't have a comfortable pants. So the first thing before I even got there, I, I called Jess. I said, okay, I'm wearing shorts. But I don't want to hear a mention of it.
Okay. Like, just like, what are you talking about? Am I going to know? You'll bring it up so, no, you're just, you're just projecting, but I'm true to form. That was like four things that she, she brought like, uh, I got some folders that the paperwork was in and I was just cautious. That, uh, that I'd be criticized on the folder.
But anyway, that the mentor is Jess and it's around admin. She's good at admin. I want to be, I want to become the admin guy. I was the guy who spearheaded Assana and then quickly stopped using it.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:47] I think
Josh Janssen: [00:05:47] everyone's using it. I know everyone else is using. It's great. Our phone system, I haven't used that.
The, uh, there's a lot of, there's a lot of admin. My emails. I was the inbox. Zero guy currently have 79 unread email. It's just, it's just a bit of a nightmare
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:06] at this point. Um, is it like shedding 50 kegs? If it's going to be hot? Like, is it easier just to, I guess what you're going to do is you're going to lean into it and have a great mentor, which you've number one, you've found, um, number two, small steps, slow growth.
Matt, Dave, Ella vibes,
Josh Janssen: [00:06:26] I think just every week. I'm going to book in a time and then we can go through the different elements, focus on different things. It's
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:33] just, this is with your mentor, you and your mentor.
Josh Janssen: [00:06:35] Yes. Cause I think that the, if you think about like, for me, it's when I'm doing creative stuff, So the VR, the hard thing, the creative industry, if you're in a, if you've, you know, whether you're an editor or you're a designer or whatever it is, it takes some emotional energy.
It takes some emotional labor. It takes some creativity to get the work done done. And I think the people who do that don't necessarily like sometimes lean more that way and struggle. With some of the more obvious administrative things. And so if you can combine them, if you can become the admin guy and the creative guy, that feels like a power combo.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:22] Yeah. What's in the middle between it being like Josh is known as the admin guy, which I don't think you actually want to be known as the admin guy
Josh Janssen: [00:07:32] he had mean guy, but it's just, I think that I, to and fro between these different States, And so if you catch me on a week where I am being the admin guy, you would assume that you would assume that this is just your
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:49] vegan of admin people
Josh Janssen: [00:07:52] always talking about it.
Yeah, no, but I think I get, I can go through a really solid stage of like everything's in the calendar. And during that week of admin, when I'm, when I'm doing all of my admin, Anyone not doing their admin pisses me off. And so just,
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:07] I know, I know, but I think for me, the slow, just. Little bit is so much more powerful over the long run.
And you know, that it was like last month, the step thing is like, just, you can win by just doing less but more consistently.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:27] So how do you put it in the, so the thing is, this is my thought. So the admin guy, it's not, it's about putting it in the calendar, putting it, whether it's half an hour, but just time to like, I'm going to check my email and I'm going to make sure it gets to this point.
Yeah this time,
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:45] but if that's not the hat, if the ad yeah. You're talking about habits at this point, the habit.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:49] Well, that's all
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:49] the adult form is this there's a bit, there's a, probably a slight different part of admin.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:57] I think it is unhackable about habits. So think about, of this way, the person that's liked to things like I was saying this to Bray, like when we were walking, uh, to mr.
Nye, seven's 21st birthday. We, we had our rival set for the exact time that we needed to be there. Yeah. And I was like, I want to be the person and the couple that is always early, early to everything. And so if you think about it from a habit perspective, it all comes down to habits. It's all saying, okay, the habit is that I have my shoes on and I'm ready to go.
10 minutes before I would need to leave.
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:42] Yeah. And so the habit of admin is it that the habit means you will do it, whether you hate it or not, or you don't want to do it or not.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:53] So it's default thing. When you get a bill, just pay the bill straight away. Just those sorts of things, every single, but
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:04] also you're, you're not the, uh, You're not the mentor here.
So we need that. We need the person who's great at admin. Cause I, I reckon I fall in the middle. It's like, I'm not good nor bad. I'm just in the middle. Which you just forget about me at that point, but forget it. How do you, if yeah, yeah. Admin forgettable. It's what I strive for in life. Um, but yeah, so it's that the habit bit in the middle where you.
Oh, it's just not go fucking extreme. It's like any weight loss thing where you, if you went extreme, you fall off this end in a week's time and eat a 12 pack of Krispy. Kremes watching. I mean,
Josh Janssen: [00:10:45] the thing is the thing to consider is I am an extreme guy, but do these field
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:52] in extreme circumstances?
Josh Janssen: [00:10:53] No. So this is the, this is the, I think that.
I'm slightly being misrepresented. So if you think about it this way, the daily show now, like in the thing, in your thinking around it. So there's, there's the big goal. There's a big change that you want to make. And then there's the small habits that you have to get there. So for instance, the screenplay Sundays are saying, saying good day on the, um, on YouTube.
Uh, so for instance, it's like doing the daily talk show, doing 900 plus episodes requires an extreme belief and extreme, uh, expectation that you have, but then it's whittling it down to the very smallest thing. So the thing, the things that have always had impacts in my life do have that first step, which is think extreme, think big.
This is where we want to, like, I want, like I want to create something awesome. And then whittle it down to here are the very small steps. I think that sometimes a risk could be that, uh, The, you know, there's, there's a, uh, BJ Fogg has the, um, his book on habits. There's the, um, the power of habits as well.
There's atomic habits by James clear all of these books talk about, you know, whether it's Keystone habits. So the small thing of like, I'm going, like, what is the one habit that will then domino effect across your life? So for instance, it could be. Drinking a certain amount of water a day, or set off all of these other things or putting out your clothes, working out your clothes in the morning will then stop the frantic nature of where are my shorts.
Where's this where's that do all that sort of thing. So the thing that definitely you can't, if someone says, I want to make a feature film, there's a dream. But then there's the micro steps that you have to get there. And so I think that the, what can sometimes happen, you use, we look at people who have big dreams and we maybe disregard, or we say, nah, like that's outrageous, but some people get their sort of energy from thinking about it, thinking about the big thing, sort of imagining it, visualizing it.
And then the next steps. I think that that's fine. I don't think that the. There's nothing wrong with dreaming big and aspiring and aspiring to be the best version. I think sometimes I can come across as when someone says, Oh yeah, I want to be able to run a marathon or do this thing. I understand the world can say, mate, if you just did a walk around the street, you'd be doing better than you're doing now, which makes complete sense.
But there's a version where we choose saying, no, you can get there, but to get there. There's these micro steps. That's like, yeah. You know, one day at a time you can build all that sort of thing to then get to the point that you want to get to.
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:10] I think there's a lot of dreamers in the world that don't make it past the dream.
And that's where people, when you refer to people, look at. The, the people that talk like in this big way, like, fuck, you know, like it's, you're set, there is a version of someone who does use it as motivation to, to run a marathon when that's the first thing they say. But then how do you create all those habits where you just have forgotten that you're even trying to build a habit because it's, it's your way of operating.
It's just, you know,
Josh Janssen: [00:14:43] that happens. That happens. That happens over time. And so the thing is that you don't. You don't naturally, it doesn't just happen with on day one. Right. And there's like a confidence and all of that sort of thing. But I think for me, I like, like, I think like thinking about dreaming big and I've seen it so many times where it's like, people's circles, who they're with.
It's like, Oh, you don't need to do another podcast or you don't need, or this or that. Like all those things though, like the problem with. Uh, we thought the thinking around, bring it small or like make it small. So it's, it's tangible, unfortunately gets lumped in with the same thing. That's keeping people from dreaming big and doing it small.
Right. So what happens is it's not this off on switch. It's not like you either think big or you think small. There is a hybrid that can happen where it's like, okay, let's think big. Think about like, yes, you can do all of this sort of stuff, but you're going to have to start at the beginning. You have to get going to start with one, one foot forward.
Um, and so I think that it's probably a, there's a lot of people, I think that I'm one of them that can sometimes like the tone in which people speak about other people's goals. It's sort of like, ah, you know, like you become identified as that person. Right? So for me, I've done a lot of things. I've tried a lot of stuff.
I failed at 99% of it. And so if I was to look back and say, okay, I'm going to look at what's previously worked and what hasn't worked. I probably wouldn't do a lot of things. And so the thing is that's like the only thing that we can do is have another crack. Have it. And so the, the, the risk is the gunner.
If you're a gunner person, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. There's not much in there, but it's like if you're lighting the lighting, the match, it might take 50 times for you to light the match before it properly profitably, properly catches light. And so I think that, yeah, I definitely, you got to start small, but I think that I have.
There's been so many examples in my life where the thing that has been most valuable to me, Is because I was the guy, I was the video guy that's worked out. Okay. For me. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:14] Yeah. And so there's a version of dreaming big, which is internally driving motivation. I think what you're saying is when the internal dreaming big into, you know, like meets ex external people that aren't you, that are just either trying to suggest or guide you in a way to get there.
And so. There is a trapping thinking that way too. There's a trap in that. It feels really good to live in the future because you're not there. And there's all this hard period of time to get to where you want to go. That is going to require a lot of energy. And so. Yeah, I think, I think there's a, a version of both that you just can work through it, not you personally, but just, you know,
Josh Janssen: [00:18:01] yeah.
It's just, I think there's a, there's a, you need to be present and you need to be thinking about everything in sort of, um, a present state of what can I do now? What's that version that I can do now. Uh, but I think that
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:16] what are you looking for in a mentor? How do they guide you through that?
Josh Janssen: [00:18:20] That I've got no, I've got no problem in the dreaming bit.
Some people might. So some people, their mentor needs to be the one that. Looks at the macro, they look at the big thing. It's like, here's the, here's the possibilities. I'm the possibilities going? I'm like, this is what, where I think it can go. And so for me in the areas of admin, it's the tactics it's like, okay, like what are the small little things that I just need to do?
To be able to get to this point.
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:48] What are the traits of someone who does good admin 10 sexually?
Josh Janssen: [00:18:53] I think a good admin.
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:55] Doesn't think it's just,
Josh Janssen: [00:18:56] I think the thing. Yeah. So this is where I fall into things. I, I spend more time stressing about the thing I need to do rather than doing the thing. Yeah. So I stress about going to the post office for weeks.
If I just gone to the post office only took me 10 minutes. If I'd gone to the post office, I could have avoided a world of pain. And so there's so many examples of that where it's like, Oh no, I've really got to do this thing. Or now it's like, ah, and so I'm constantly thinking about it and that is like, there's a resistance there.
Um, and so the
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:32] quality, literally there's a new feature on the meditation app that I use. It's called moments. And it like shoots a moment to your screen. It says, tap on this. And it gives you like 40 seconds of audio. And one of them the other day was literally, you know, how you have those moments where you were thinking.
That you need to do something. And it's exactly what you're saying. And it was just about leaning into it. How about embrace that energy that you're feeling and actually do the thing, which I was like, that's annoying. Cause I don't want to have to do it. Like it's exactly what the opposite would say, but it's totally right.
It's like, how does that become an alarm system for you to be like that's when I fucking do it,
Josh Janssen: [00:20:11] what's the S to be honest, you're going to sound like a broken record, but I felt really good doing the second brain. I have my second brain. It felt very good. And so the thing is that there is a version,
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:24] did it do your admin for you?
Did it.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:26] So this is the thing. So it does. So the, so the admin, so what is the actual problem? So the problem, isn't it. So the w if I use my washing is as an example, okay,
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:39] here we go. Bill, Fordham's
Josh Janssen: [00:20:40] going to be calling you here. So the washing doesn't take that much time. It doesn't, it does it actually, it doesn't take that much time.
You know what I mean? If you're listening right now, you're doing the washing. You probably get through, uh, you'll probably get the washing done before this podcast ends washing. Doesn't take that much time if you do it regularly. And so the thing is that I don't have the internal sit, so I'm lacking some internal systems.
I'm lacking the internal system at the moment to be like, you know what? Just because the food there doesn't mean you have to Aiden that's one internal thing or the internal thing of it's like. Oh man. I'm like, I'll spend days being like, fuck, what am I going to look like? Now my clothes are clean. Clean air takes me a long time.
The, I have to get to crisis mode. I have to get to the point where it's like, you know what? I've got, no, Andy's left. Am I going to be a, B, am I going to a blow up? It's like, I have to deal with this. I said to Jess, I was like, when we had the meeting, I'm like, I'm sort of a little bit agitated because the only undies I have.
Am I on
he got my ass. It's very annoying. It's very annoying. And so this is, this is the problem. And so I think the answer, I understand let's go slides.
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:01] He came up with it.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:02] Yeah. Just do it, just do it. Um, and so you just need to, but the thing is, I'm not being an excuse guy. I'm definitely not being the excuse guy, but we've got to recognize.
For the guy who wants to be good at admin for the guy that wants to be on time, the guy that wants to be all of these things, the guy that wants to, you know, uh, be fit and healthy something's in the way.
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:25] I think literally you talked about it. It's that person in your head saying, what's you it's, it's just your internal dialogue about why you shouldn't go to the post office.
Why you shouldn't go to
Josh Janssen: [00:22:35] coffee shops. So it's it's the mind. Yes. But it's the SIS, the operating system as well. So the thing is, which is you might. Yeah, but I think, I think that there's a, there's a distinction between, so your mind, your mind, I think is potentially of this like personal this personal thing, right?
You are, you're attached to your mind. You are your mind potentially. This is how I feel anyway, when I talk about an operating system. So what I like about operating systems. Operating systems develop. If you go back to the old macro S it was different, it was fucking slower. The user interface was different.
And then they used to write and they get better. And over time they, they release new versions and they're released. And so the thing is that your mind, isn't this static thing you can choose. You're like, hang on this. This makes no sense. Every time I click here, it does this thing here. And so what I'm saying is it's like, okay, I need to update my operating system.
Yeah, the thing is if you change everything at once in an operating system, the user gets overwhelmed. If you re, if, if we, you know, with iOS, if they did everything at the same time, if they had widgets, Siri, all of those things all happening at the same time, the user would be like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm not gonna do any of them.
And so the thing is that how many people have updated their phone with widgets and it's because there's not that many other things to do. If there's 40 other things to do on your phone at that time,
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:11] but how are you opera updating your operating system? Are you talking about externally or internally updating your operating so
Josh Janssen: [00:24:19] internally?
So what it means is so the operating system,
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:23] but is that not your mind, it's just not just growth within your understanding of your own self, that the operating systems you are. Like. I think you talked, you talked about. The ego is self. Our, our understanding of we are an individual. We are self that is the ego that drives us.
And so are you trying to understand of upgrading your thinking about. Your experience on the earth or are you needing like I'm still stuck at, so that's how we install widgets
in
Josh Janssen: [00:25:00] your head. No, it wasn't. So the thing is, so this is, this is
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:03] maybe you could answer the weather. What's the weather you'd be like fucking it's 28 and
Josh Janssen: [00:25:06] Blaine.
So the thing is, it's not about changing your mind. I don't think it is about changing your mind. I think what it is is it's about giving a structure. A decision tree that determines what you do. So I think that people that have this issue with admin, they just need to rework their decision tree. They just need to rework if this, then that.
So at the moment that if this, if I get a bill, if I, if, if Telstra, if I get a Telstra bill or whatever, wait until I get the second email, like when I get the second email, then I might, Oh, fuck. They're going to cut me off. And so I'll like, because, and then I might push them, like, fuck, I need to update this because if I don't, I'm going to like, that's going to be really
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:48] the wrong way.
Josh Janssen: [00:25:50] So this is, yeah, this is the thing. So then the other, other, other operating system, I run out of Andes. Okay. Then I am going to do this. And so the thing is, it's not really changing your mind. It's changing the operating system to say, okay, once a once a week, Do the washing or when I get to this point. So the thing think about it.
Like my beard, I wait until my neck gets to discussing. I get, I wait until I hate myself. Okay. So I'm going to shave in your shave. There's another version. And so this might be very easy to some people, some people probably listening, going you are absolutely off your chart, but do you do, do you get it?
Tommy Jackett: [00:26:33] No, I get that, but I don't know how it solves the.
The internal battle, which I think is the core problem of why you don't want to go to the post office and how it's such a big thing. So it's like you titled that understanding the energy. Cause I don't think you can just remove it. Like you're saying by having a decision tree, it's like, it's actually a pattern of, I won't go to.
That thing, cause I'll have to interact with that person, get like it's all of that along the way that has to change in the thinking to make it more easy to install a decision tree, because that's the decision tree either as you saying, I'll just fucking do it. No matter what my internal speak is, because I know it has to get done
Josh Janssen: [00:27:17] and, you know, because you end up doing that anyway.
But now at the currently I use external forces. So the, the washing does happen,
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:24] but no, the external or internal though.
Josh Janssen: [00:27:28] So that's what I'm saying. So the thing is that if you look at all of the stuff, so if you look at, uh, okay, I'm only going to do my washing when I have to write, when I have to, what does it mean to have to do something it's like, okay.
When I, like I have no other options. And so the thing is, it's just changing that internally to say, Hmm. When the baskets fall. That's where I'm going to do. Or when, when these three things are in the wash, this is when I'm going to do it. And so then it does need to be, there does need to be, cause the thing is that the difference between feeling great and not feeling great is very, very, very small changes.
And the other thing too, that we're considering here is it's like, this is like a mental health thing as well. This is like the ego depletion thing. This is like a fucking used all my willpower. Like I'm using all my willpower on doing this other thing that all of these other things drop. So for me, it's like concentration.
Like if I'm doing, if I'm spending hours doing an edit, it's like, I can't like, I can't multitask. I'm just doing all of these things. And so if I know that back and say, okay, I'm going to get up at this time. And then when I get up, I'm going to do, you know, BJ Fogg talks about the first habit that you can build is when you wake up, you plant your feet on the floor and you say, today is going to be a good day and seems ridiculous.
It seems, uh, it seems like it's not necessarily doing anything, but if you can build those tiny little things. Cause I see like breeze very good in admin breeze. Great. Like, and so Bree has an internal operating system where it's like, There's a, there's a level of anxiety to it. Cause like I can't can't uh, can't miss this bill.
Can't do that. Like, and so I think that there's just so much value in thinking about it. And it's not about some sort of like when I say operating system, it's not some sort of crazy shift it's saying I've tried to do it within the business. So the operating system, so an operating system within the businesses, it's like, okay, when someone.
Request something if someone or someone, um, uh, wants a task done, what's the pro, like, what's the thing. How do we keep ourselves here?
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:44] I, yeah. I just think there's a step before, which is the internal stuff, working with the ingest. So
Josh Janssen: [00:29:50] what does that, so what do you suggest
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:52] why, uh, I'm not your mentor, um, but it's, but there is a version of.
Understanding slightly a bit more about what that means, uh, the, the guy who doesn't want to go to the post office and, and the resistance, and, and then working with that energy and working before it's even landed on the decision. It's like, what does, uh, what does that all mean? What does it, what's it doing?
Where's the benefit, the cost analysis on your current internal processes that you're using and where you could land .
Josh Janssen: [00:30:24] There's like, so what you're describing is like the metacognition stuff, which is like, thinking about your thinking. Why, why you think
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:32] it's beyond that. It's cause I don't think it's yeah.
I don't know. I don't know if it's just about Ricky, like just using more thinking on that.
Josh Janssen: [00:30:42] And so that's what I'm. So what I'm suggesting is you've got to do something you need to take these steps. What's what is the step before that?
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:52] Um, look, I'm not in the right place to tell you, cause I'm not your mentor.
Josh Janssen: [00:30:57] You've got one. What's the. Cause I feel like you disagree. What are you, what are you thinking?
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:04] No, no, no. I, I, I don't disagree. I think, I just don't think necessarily the, the fixes a decision tree where it's like, if I don't, I need to do this all day. Like I just, I feel like there's so much. There's a barrier between your mind and that thing that you even have to fill, you know, do the washing once the basket's full there's so much time in between those two things going on, where,
Josh Janssen: [00:31:30] what sort of decision patterns,
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:32] but it's not easy.
Josh Janssen: [00:31:34] So the decision tree is probably not the right word because not really trade. It's a single thing. These it's, what is
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:41] the thing is a great
Josh Janssen: [00:31:42] idea. And so that's, that's, that's a better, better language for it. It's saying
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:47] I would love to understand, and the psychology behind someone who is great at admin or what it even means and, and where you're at.
Josh Janssen: [00:31:56] It's the, if this, then that. So here's one example when it comes to food. Okay. So when you, from an external forces perspective, are you someone. That eats everything that's on the plate. And so that idea it's very S it's seems tiny, but if you're driven by the external force, that how much is on your plate, then you have no control over how much you're eating, because you're just, you're completely driven externally for, from that perspective.
And so.
Tommy Jackett: [00:32:30] There's a bunch of patterns and yeah. So that is a pattern that you've developed, not you personally, but you know, someone who grown up and there's all this history behind why they eat everything on the plate. Scarcity didn't know when their next meal was, the brothers would fucking steal their food.
They need to get it in. Yeah. And so to break these things, it's not just like, I don't do, I don't eat that. Like there's probably some more. And so what I'm saying is you're a complex dude. There's probably some complexity to how you solve some of these things that aren't even admin.
Josh Janssen: [00:33:00] Like it's implicit. I think the thing is that.
What your, I think you're trying to say is it's like, it's a complex issue. So we need to look at it in a complete, like with more complexity or we need to think about it in a bigger, get
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:13] to simple, which is that simple.
Josh Janssen: [00:33:15] But the thing is, this is like, from what I've read, uh, with, with like, uh, BJ Fogg's book get, and with, with all of these habit books is that's like, it's a really small, it's always the surprisingly small things that then get you to do the thing.
And so it's, if you look at it where it's like you are complex. And so the only way that this is going to be fixed is with this, because it's very unclear. I think that the, the feedback that you're providing, if I was to go based on that, where do you start
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:55] say psychologist?
Josh Janssen: [00:33:57] Yeah. I mean,
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:59] have someone external sought out and give you perspective?
I can't, because you would listen to me, even if I tried to give suggestions on what I thought it needs to come from somebody who would be able to sort of understand why someone does what they do. And then it's like, well, and that's what I mean, complexity, more, more is needed. I think that would probably play into it.
What you like, like someone who actually has information that is well thought through, not just like, yeah. Hi. When you have these moments, how about drop the story? That's not going to help, like that is a way to do it. Let's see it as energy. See what's going on internally is just this energy. You use that as a form of concentration to sort of let it dissipate.
So when there's less energy involved in you having to go to the post office, maybe it's just going to the post office.
Josh Janssen: [00:34:57] So what's important to you.
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:00] Well, I don't know what we're talking about here. This
Josh Janssen: [00:35:03] habit change.
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:05] Oh, habit change, habit change. Well, the coffee thing I've stopped.
Josh Janssen: [00:35:10] I think. What were you seeking from that?
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:13] Um, stopping coffee was, I don't know. I quite like to do little challenges to see how, how much change they bring me. I'm in the, what is it? Five days in. It's just interesting to see the difference in how you can feel from not hate taking something external. Um, and then seeing the, so in answer to your question was what, what did you want from that?
Is that what you said?
Josh Janssen: [00:35:42] Yeah. Well,
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:43] initially it's just like, will no coffee in the morning reduce anxiety and the answer's. Yes, for sure. For sure. And so that was the main thing. But there's parameters around the month and say, what happens after that? It's like drinking. It's like for me, stopping that for a year was a challenge.
And I'm just trying to place all these things to see where you end up putting or what's important. What is crucial because I don't think it's about doing more and so stopping something. Allows some space for me to see the, the benefit of the cost benefit.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:27] And so when we have aspirations, so we have these aspirations of ourselves, you're going to do this.
I'm going to do that for you. Like a few months ago, sport spoke about the boxing. You're going to do a lot of boxing in the backyard. Have you found, like, is it just something
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:43] stick? No thumb, some things. That's what I'm trying. That's what we spoke to Seth about. I was like, I don't know what makes it stick.
So last month doing the steps I make that stick. And
Josh Janssen: [00:36:53] so the boxing,
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:55] no, I haven't made that stick.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:57] What's been the difference between the steps and the boxing?
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:01] Well, I think there's something I can't tell. I actually don't understand it. I actually. I don't know necessarily what it is. Is it competition? Is it the, uh, duration of time thing that allows me to then, you know, is it the least amount of friction possible?
No equipment needed fucking put your shoes on, do the thing that you always do, you know, every day walk. So is it that? And so I don't, I don't know the answer because yeah, I, I don't have a choice. That's not a fucking goal.
Josh Janssen: [00:37:37] Real. I think this is all admin. No, this is what I'm talking about. Right? This is these things, but, so how do we, so we all say that we're going to do these things and, and I'm very, I think that I'm very open with, I'm just an external, like very external in my communication.
So it's like, if I think about something, I'll bring it. Straight away. And so part of the, the pain is that you don't always land. You'd like 70% of the time you don't, but then the 30% does. And like there's so many people, like, I think that's a common thing. I think everyone, if you are aspiring for big things, or if you're wanting to change your life, you're coming up with things that are going to make you uncomfortable things that you couldn't do yesterday.
So if you even look at that, like what's the, like using the chicken thing, it was like,
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:30] yeah. But I think we're talking about like, if you're relating it to your identifying some in admin that is letting you down in what you're trying to do. So there's a difference between. Admin of getting it fucking chicken coop.
So we can have some chicken eggs versus writing emails, responding to, you know, do all the things you outlined earlier. It's like at that point I haven't identified chicken. Coop is something that is letting me down if I don't,
Josh Janssen: [00:38:59] what do you say? So there was a thing, but so, but it is, but it is, there is the, um, I think that it acts from the same place.
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:09] I think that it's, one's not my identity. So you want, like, I don't see it as a problem that it's, that it hasn't happened now. And so , what about the opposite? Lean into it? You are the absolute worst admin dude on earth.
Josh Janssen: [00:39:25] Well, this is the thing. This is what like some people do. And some people, if you are. Uh, that way inclined you can do that.
There are, uh, like I've got mates who they don't have to be that great. They don't have to be great at admin. Look at, uh, Casey Neistat. He doesn't, he he's landed in a place where he's like, I don't have a calendar. I rock, I can rock up an hour late to things. But the thing is it's hugely impactful to the lives of others.
And so there's a self-awareness piece, which is like, We can say, I can say, uh, uh, I'm just not good at this. I'm not, but the thing is, I think that a lot of times when we say I'm not good at this, yes. What we're actually saying is this isn't important to me. I'm not going to prioritize this thing. And so there is huge benefits.
Like I think like one great example is when I used to edit, when I was younger, I was a messy editor. And when I say that, it's like, you just have beans, which is sort of like folders or whatever, in, in the software, you just have shit everywhere. Right. And you just sorta like, and, and, and we use this excuse in creativity where it's just like, it's just the creative process.
I just have to go through this thing and then it happens. But what happens is. When you're working with a team, when you're collaborating, when you're doing all of this sort of stuff, you, then you actually need to be more, you need to be self-aware. You need to be thinking about some of these things you need to be improving.
And so for me, it's like, when I'm doing an ERT, now I do the extra organized bit upfront and it makes it a joy to edit. And so that story around I'm creative. I can't do this thing. It's like, uh, It's like what Seth talks about with authenticity. It's like, you don't have to be authentic all the time. You don't have to, you don't have to love doing the washing.
You don't have to be your authentic self doing the washing. You just have to do it because it will reward you. So if you think about like using the boxing or what is it rather than me projecting the things that you.
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:34] Well, I think there's the way off in terms of, and I don't think that the same, what have you,
Josh Janssen: [00:41:40] what are the things that, because it's easy for you, you decide to look at what I'm putting out and say poke or,
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:48] well, that's a conversation.
This is what we're having. It's not a, not your version camp.
Josh Janssen: [00:41:53] What's the things that you want.
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:56] Um, yeah, there's a there's. So for the last couple of years, there's been the year of. Uh, now alcohol and exercise every second day. And then I've continued the no alcohol, sorry. I've continued the meditation every day.
The exercise has not been one that I've managed to make stick every second day. And so I'm trying to work out the blend of. What does it look like to, you know, have, do less coffee, less fucking, more exercise, more meditation, and sort of have them intertwine. And so that's where it is a goal of understanding my resistance to things and where I need to just stop or lean in to different areas.
So I don't have a specific one.
Josh Janssen: [00:42:49] So what's the biggest challenge then?
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:53] Um, I don't, I don't see a big challenge. I've just, I'm just seeing.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:03] So if you think about like, think about like the workshop we did with Michael Bungay Stanier, like someone saying, I don't see a big challenge.
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:12] No, I I'm. I'm it's it's the biggest challenge is my mind.
Like it is for all of us of just like what making it happen. Getting it done, putting something in place that it means that I have to do it.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:26] And so when you talk about doing it, when you talk about the, do it putting something in place, what is
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:32] it? Start, get out, get fucking, whatever, start moving, do a practice every day.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:40] So the, whatever, the thing or that sort of thing, like that's coming from this place of like where using the thing that's potentially. A little bit inconsistent, which is our mind to try and in the moment be like our, this is a thing that I think that might move me forward. We're just having a bad conversation.
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:59] I haven't articulated what I'm wanting to do or what I'm like, but what he, things it's not time for it today. We're going to wrap this up. We've been good, but why what's the
Josh Janssen: [00:44:10] what's the, the thing is there's the, there's the criticism Ian or not the criticism. There's the feedback in. The answer's a psych, which is, hang on.
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:21] This is the, you can't bring something up and. And, and have a discussion, a deep discussion about this and, and may not be able to point out some things. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:44:30] And that's what I'm saying. It's not about back on you. What I'm saying is it's like there is, but there's a hypocrisy in mate. Now you should do something.
And then I asked you, but I've done this, we've done this so many times
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:44] you've been asked for your help. I'm not asking
Josh Janssen: [00:44:45] for it. The thing I did, I ask you.
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:48] Well, you brought it up as a discussion.
Josh Janssen: [00:44:50] And so the thing is one of the ways that we can do this is
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:56] I've got nothing to talk through. I don't, I don't have anything in my mind that I want to talk through
Josh Janssen: [00:45:02] that.
Why is that?
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:04] Because I haven't, I haven't even thought about it. I don't, I don't,
Josh Janssen: [00:45:08] you're not thinking about anything that you want to become better at,
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:12] not at this moment. That I, that I have thought through enough that I want to share, like you talking about the admin,
Josh Janssen: [00:45:19] I don't have, uh, the, the thing is I don't have, uh, like a, a synthesized thought what I'm doing is I'm, I'm talking,
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:27] but you've got it enough.
You've got it. I've got it.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:30] We have this idea yesterday. And so I'm bringing it up. And so
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:33] this is the thing, the point there it is.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:36] And so for you, what are the, so you talk about the coffee thing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:41] But we don't need to go down these things like I'm trying to internally work that out. And so that's, that's my job.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:49] Yeah. I think that's, that's where we're different. I think that that's the, where I think that we do struggle is there's so many things where, uh, that extra level of thought or thinking about things, or like, what are the two, like we spoke about this a few weeks ago where it's like, I want it to be a good week.
I haven't necessarily identified the two or three things that are very small, that I can put in place that will make that a reality. And so that's what I'm trying to do. I know I'm not perfect. I know that that's the thing I need to work on, which is I'm not doing that. And so there's a, there's an element, I guess, of the habit forming.
What, what we've discovered is it's like, if you don't. Not having a system, not having a process becomes the system or process. It becomes the way in which you do things. So the, the, the non, like not having a strategy becomes the strategy. And so what we're talking about here is it's like, okay, the two or three things that we can all be like that, that I could do.
And so for me, it might be waking up at a certain time or, or whatever it is, um, And it's not about, I think that that may be part of it is not, not talking about it. So it's a different values thing. Right. So my values are like, let's have the comp like is from a, or not even values. My operating system is like, let's have the conversation now.
Let's think about it now. Let's talk about it now
Tommy Jackett: [00:47:30] that works for you though.
Josh Janssen: [00:47:31] Yeah, exactly. And so then, The balance is when you, when you have someone who doesn't have that operating system, how can the person who is the now person communicate with, because this is not too dissimilar to the conversation we had weeks ago in regards to the week and how we're designing it and all that sort of thing.
And the pushback is I'm not ready to talk about it. And so how do people move forward? How do you know? Because it, it, it puts you in a position where it's like, you can't have a conversation until every party is ready to have the conversation. And if one party is never ready to have that conversation, how do you all develop?
Tommy Jackett: [00:48:20] Yeah. I mean, is that an empathetic way of approaching it? If it's like. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if every party needs to necessarily be ready to have a conversation. Yeah. I mean, this is what I'm trying to sort of connect it back up to what we're talking about. We've just done an hour on fucking admin,
Josh Janssen: [00:48:41] but how ironic?
Yeah. I mean, it's
Tommy Jackett: [00:48:44] not, but I'd like to turn cause it's more about psychology than anything. Habits are psychology. Like w w yeah. Why you stick at something saying something and saying, I'm going to do something. Say I'm going to wake up 6:00 AM. Doesn't mean you're going to fucking do it. There's more to it than that.
And so that's why I'm saying, I don't know the connect because I've said I'll do a lot, a lot of things in life that I haven't done. I've said I've done that. I'll do a bunch of stuff and I've stuck at them. I can't tell where it lands right now.
Josh Janssen: [00:49:12] Can you say any of the differences? Can you say the thing that you constraints
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:17] saying?
No, like removing things like these will work for me in some respects, like. Um, I CA I struck like Seth Goden says he struggles quitting, midway through doing something. I struggle committing to something where I won't I'll stop. I don't like it. I don't, like having said, I'll do something and not doing it.
Like, that's definitely something I've been identifying or,
Josh Janssen: [00:49:43] and so there's a part of it, which is so there's accountability and resilience and getting fit and finishing things, but there's, there's also the, the balance. Of having a crack and realizing that not everything will work and not everything, is it like we are constantly evolving.
We're constant. We could never have predicted that would be in a pandemic. So anything that I said a year, a year ago in regards to where we would be as a business or what we should be doing, like, we can't consider that as the thing, because we've the inputs have and anyone that has the sort of inputs that we've had in the last 12 months that are then static or still.
In the same sort of mindset, I'd say art looking out and not being open enough to changing their mind. And so, yeah, I think that changing your mind is fine. I think that that's like, that's the, you know, and the thing is that when I bring up these things, like I know that I know the frustration. I know. I think that there's a lot of people who would feel that feeling.
Tommy Jackett: [00:50:50] Yeah. Yeah. The frustration on the thing is that it like, cause then you reference a few things from mine. I'm not frustrated at all. I haven't thought about it. And so there's a version of, where's it land for you and how, how much weight are you putting on it? And so the things you've brought, the things you've identified, you must be putting weight on them to identify them like you are.
And so that's why we failed. That's why we ended up focusing on them. But I was looking at this conversation more around the psychology of the like.
Josh Janssen: [00:51:19] Well, so the thing, and so, yeah. And so it's trying to identify, I guess like the broader sense is what is the thing that's stopping us from the thing that we want to do.
So if you want to do something and you're not doing it, or you haven't done it, why not?
Tommy Jackett: [00:51:36] You haven't bought enough. Maybe you haven't wanted. I wanted it bad enough.
Josh Janssen: [00:51:41] Yeah. Well I D yeah, I think, um, I think that it's, yeah, I think it's a, I think that's overly simplistic. I think that for, for a lot of people, it's like, there's people have spent their whole life to trying to, to, to lose weight or to, to change their thing.
And they want it more than anything in the world. They think about it nonstop, but they can't do it. And so there's, there's a, there's a, there's a want to do it. And then there is. The operating system that this is actually how I'm going to do it. This is the step that I'm going to take. And the hard thing is this is why things like Christmas time, all this sort of stuff, like families everyone's triggering each at like, there's a, um, how we approach individuals and how they're going with things.
Like we were constantly projecting. So, you know, if, uh, for you, what has worked as being meditation or things like that. And so that's what you're bringing just like me. I would be like, read this book or read that book, or maybe try this thing. And so what can sometimes get lost is we're all individuals, we're all doing, you know, roll on our own journey, but the tiny habit stuff.
The very little small thing and saying, this is what I'm going to do. That's that's the way. And I just I'm. I don't, I don't,
Tommy Jackett: [00:53:09] she knocked the ad. She
Josh Janssen: [00:53:10] pushes the mental toward yourself. No wall. No. See, this is what
Tommy Jackett: [00:53:14] it'd be. If you wanted a mentor, you have to listen to and respect not saying that you don't adjust, but I'm saying like, for them to be able to give you, that's why I preface before I said anything.
I was like, I'm not your mentor. And then I find what I'm going to say.
Josh Janssen: [00:53:28] So the thing is doing tiny habits. Isn't me applying. This is what I should be doing. It's saying the tiny habit is actually the bit for the mentorship. The tiny habit is it's like, what's the little thing that, that I speak to Jess about, or that we do, or like to make sure that we're keeping that.
So the tiny habit, isn't the thing. The tiny habit is the capture, which should then. Holds, whatever the thing is. So I don't know what the tiny habit is. I don't know what the, you know,
Tommy Jackett: [00:54:02] what signs you, your tiny habit?
Josh Janssen: [00:54:05] Well, that's okay. I think that's the point. The point is around coming up with that together and saying, okay, this is, this is what it is, but, um, yeah, I think that there would be something fun in a self-development week.
Well, what, what would it look like to do a self-development week where. We're all working on things. So the thing is that I actually don't do well with competing with others. That's something that, so the thing is that I'm very competitive internally. But then as soon as I feel like it's a Dick swinging contest, as soon as I feel like it's, uh, uh, some sort of alpha thing or whatever, like, I, I don't, but that's, that's what we spoke about with the pumps and things like that.
I just hate playing the systems or games of being set. So maybe with the step thing, I was like, I like the competing thing. I actually competed better. On my, like, I can pay better on my own than I do with a group of people
Tommy Jackett: [00:55:07] maybe. Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, I wasn't trying, you set out to do more than me.
I set out to do what I thought I could do. And then that was the challenge. So yeah, you're right in the competition. Yeah. Where, where does that fit? How, what kind of competition? Cause I think some people thrive off fucking beat the shit out of this other person, whereas you're right. It's like that internal competition is the driver.
Like, you know,
Josh Janssen: [00:55:35] so that's the way that's where the difference is right. Where it's like. Um, it's interesting. Uh, before we go, we, uh, we, the, the other week we did an episode on. Slate Republic mattresses.
Tommy Jackett: [00:55:48] We did. And I mean, we've, I've put in some work on that thing that sounds wrong. I've put in some hours sleeping and might comfy as fuck.
Josh Janssen: [00:56:01] There. You put it, you put together, uh, of, uh, doing the episode and, uh, you know, setting up the mattress. And
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:10] here is that video blog right now that I want to show you.
Josh Janssen: [00:56:13] Video blog.
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:14] Totally. The way you said blogging. It was
Josh Janssen: [00:56:15] very lay logged. Here. It is.
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:24] the past two and a half years, we've tried to push the boundaries of what it means to create a podcast. Stepping outside of our comfort zone. We've recorded shows from different locations, right across the globe, New York city, Los Angeles, Sydney, Australia at 24 hour live stream. The boot of my car from crispy cream fountain gate.
I once even did a show on top of a water tank in Outback Queensland.
Josh Janssen: [00:56:48] It has
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:48] been an uncomfortable journey, but I remember reading a quote that stuck with me, great things never came from
Josh Janssen: [00:56:54] compass. And the
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:57] other thing we know is quotes can be annoying for all of that work. Took a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of money.
And quite frankly, I've aged about 10 years in the last two years. So for episode 880, we wanted to take a different approach. We decided to embrace our comfort zone.
I've got a delivery
public bed derive
that is a King size mattress.
Have you got your mattress yet?
today's episode of the daily talk show. We're podcasting. From habits. This is my setup here. I'm going to get it from here
into here.
Camera's sorted
Josh Janssen: [00:58:26] here we are. Camera
Tommy Jackett: [00:58:30] strapped in
Josh Janssen: [00:58:39] it's the daily talk show. 880.
Tommy Jackett: [00:58:45] What is happening? What's going on wrong, JJ. You're out of breath, mate.
Josh Janssen: [00:58:50] How are we on sleep Republic mattresses? I bet. I just had to run over. I'm making it sound like it's really far away. The PCs next to me,
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:01] all the places that we've done, the podcast it's been. The
Josh Janssen: [00:59:03] most comfortable.
Yeah. I think it's going to be hard to actually start doing any work. Now
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:08] we have a few meetings after this and I'm not going anywhere.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:12] The only thing change I'd make is at the moment I've got I'm so fully lying down. So I'd probably just sit up.
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:18] I don't have pants on.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:21] No, I respect that
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:22] I've got on these pants and you're not going to tell me otherwise, if you want to sleep Republic mattress, sleep republic.com.edu.
We can check them out on Instagram. Sleep doc. Pre-public just, as my motto goes, 80% bedroom is 80% bed. That's what you want. Get a King, even in a one bedroom.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:39] That can be the whole, yeah, that's the campaign was just always need a King. You never know
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:49] you haven't left your bed. Josh. He's currently lying down still.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:52] I was actually, uh, uh, slept in this morning, watched, uh, some of the presidential election stuff on my iPad in bed. That's beautiful.
Tommy Jackett: [01:00:01] How close are we?
Josh Janssen: [01:00:02] Yeah, I mean, uh, uh, by to a decision. Yeah. Yeah. The, the thing is, I think that they'll get close to a decision very soon.
The problem is that, um, with Trump. Saying that the mail-in ballots aren't really valid and things like that. It creates all of these issues. So yeah. What is, um, Biden? They have to get to two 70 points or whatever. It was like two 70 votes.
Tommy Jackett: [01:00:27] Um, I love, I just I've loved people coming out, like so sure. And who's winning.
It's the best one guy who is quite well known online, like a business person. Um, not that he follows Trump. It was like, guys, you got to follow the money. Got to follow the money. Look at the odds, the odds, you know, Trump's at $1 30, Biden's at bloody two something. And then this morning I wake up, the odds have flipped the other way.
Biden's that like $1 30 Trump's at three bucks now or
Josh Janssen: [01:00:55] something? Yeah, no, no. How much using sports bet is going to be a good indicator on what the results are going to be. Uh, anyway, if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts. We'll read it out on the show would absolutely love that.
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Tommy Jackett: [01:01:22] and send an email. Send us an email.
Josh Janssen: [01:01:24] Love you. Hybridoma tops.com. See ya.
Tommy Jackett: [01:01:27] Bye.