Josh Janssen: [00:00:00] It's the daily talk show episode 895.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:08] What is happening growing? So what's going on. Happy Tuesday. Happy last day of lockdown in Melbourne. Now I'm
Josh Janssen: [00:00:16] going to say something extremely controversial or
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:19] Kate's locked
Josh Janssen: [00:00:20] down. Well, it's not political. It's not political. It's got nothing to do with. COVID
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:26] great.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:27] Uh, but I'm not ready.
To come out of lockdown. I think I just need a few more weeks.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:34] It's a, you want the, um, the, uh, ease, ease out the long he's out.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:40] We'll do one day a week. Like let's avoid social interactions still. I D I have a little bit of anxiety with the, that everyone just assumes now. Like we have to be social. I've never gone out.
Why am I having to like, yeah, we're going to go to the pubs. I didn't do that beforehand. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:01] I know, I think it's the choice having the choice there, the thing you become dictated damn. When you, when we've got to, I mean, if you're telling everyone else they have to do one day, it is, I'm sure it's it's individual, but no, I appreciate it.
Like, I think, I think what you're saying is spot on like, do the ease back in that you don't want to, you don't want to come out of the Gates and then actually. Uh, become a hermit when you aren't forced to become a hermit, you know, like the, the, uh, the repercussion of opening up hard and Josh Janssen leaving his house and him resorting to living in, um, you know, moving to Tasmanian.
Well, like,
Josh Janssen: [00:01:39] yeah, I would, I would. I mean, do you feel that at all, do you feel this, like, to be honest, I like literally a brain. I went for a walk this morning and she was like, okay, we'll go to, you know, how you're feeling about it. It's like, wow. I just we've got meetings net. Like I planned in an in-person meeting for, in like a, in a week's time or something.
And the, um, uh, I thought that it would be canceled to be honest. And so now I need to like prepare for it. I need to buy clothes. I can't wear a track suit pants and the daily talk show hoodie to a meeting. So I actually need to go and buy some post COVID pants and a tee shirt just to like, I'm not going to get my whole wardrobe because this isn't the best version of me, but I just need something so that I'm comfortable for the next few weeks, as I phase back into some sort of, you know, new, normal.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:32] Yeah. There's, there's new thinking, which is just old ways of thinking that we have to enter back into like, Clothes like what you're wearing presentable, where, you know, where are going, what are we doing? Are we eating out all these things, which are now choices that we can make again? But no, I'm I kind of haven't, I don't think I've sort of lent into the like, The sort of celebration that people have had about coming out.
But today I was really thinking just when I heard a number thrown around of like 190 days or something, 200 days of us being there seven months. And like, I was just, so Telly's podcast came out today too much, telly every Tuesday. Uh, I was just looking at the, we've done 15 episodes of that show. Um, at least 12 of them have been remote that's 12 weeks.
Yeah, that's a lot.
Josh Janssen: [00:03:25] It's a long time.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:26] Let's seems like a long time and that was the second lockdown. And so it's, um, it's a time for celebration.
Josh Janssen: [00:03:33] It is, but I mean, it was you an idea. This is why I don't want to leave the house we live. We don't just do the podcast. You can get on your favorite podcast app if that's how you like, but we also live stream AMA in the comments rights.
Your forehead is massive. I mean, this is why I don't want to leave the house. I mean, we can only assume who's, forehead's bigger.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:53] Mine looks bigger. Am I closer to the CA Eric? And I'm closer to the camera mine. Mine's looking like, um, look like eight fingers worth none and that's not, well,
Josh Janssen: [00:04:04] well, do you know what the, what a big forehead's called?
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:07] What is it?
Josh Janssen: [00:04:08] A five head
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:09] and five head.
Josh Janssen: [00:04:11] Well, you got a forehead and you got a fivehead. I love that, but the, um, I don't know. Who's maybe it's just, I've never really thought about it. Do I have a big forehead?
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:20] Well, I don't know, but I mean, would you get this level of trolling out in the streets? Like would someone just yell out shit?
You know, Emma is on the internet. I just
Josh Janssen: [00:04:30] got a text message from bright. Uh, I reported the comment as bullying is pre the moderator. Thank you. Break up my back. Um, or Tommy's,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:39] uh, forehead. What if she sh I think Brie assumed it was your forehead, Josh.
Josh Janssen: [00:04:45] Uh,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:46] is that Brea contributing to this forehead abuse
Josh Janssen: [00:04:49] bracing saying, no, you don't.
Uh, don't worry about it. Thank you, Bri. Um, uh, anyway,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:56] well, it's, it's great. I'm looking forward to getting out, like, just, yeah. He's back in JJ. He's back in because you know, you will, you will close the curtains for the six months. If, if at all, if, if you have the bad excuse.
Josh Janssen: [00:05:09] Yeah, we can't go too hard.
Remember when we came back from the first wave. And I came into the office and everyone, like, it was just the transitional point. Remember everyone was pissing me off. And so then, like I was excited to go into the office and then the experience wasn't great. Lauren was annoying me.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:28] I mean, if I wish we could just flash back to the episode where we were talking about your grievances of us being back after the first lockdown.
Yeah. I mean, what if you had to just decide dissect that if that is the inevitable, that. There are things you could call them problems, uh, that, uh, just needing to be solved in real time in person or in the company of other people. What is the, what's the solution to avoiding that other than not going to,
Josh Janssen: [00:05:59] well, it's just going a bit slower.
Maybe, maybe just nothing too fast. Just saying how it's all playing out. Maybe not entering into too many conversations, having too many, trying to make too many decisions in a week.
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:13] Yeah. Well, there's been a lot of fast, probably multiple and fast. Decision-making being remote, right? Like lots of conversations, which is not what you, it's not sustainable when you're in an office.
Like everyone has to be doing their own work. And so it's easy to interrupt somebody or just, Hey. Can you do this or what are you doing? What's up? I want to go for a coffee.
Josh Janssen: [00:06:36] That's also true. We're doing stuff about like, we're talking about the work rather than doing the work because we're being, cause we do video production and we can't actually go out and film right now.
It's talking about everything around the filming. So it's like, you know, setting up processes and systems and uh, all of that sort of thing. But, um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:58] it's just a different gear shift, a different time. It has, I mean, it's, it's someone messaged me yesterday and said, Hey, do you still do video? Uh, technically yes, but seven months has gone by where not much is done.
And so I think the answer is yes, now it is. Yes, it is a bloody hell. Hell yes. Um, the, have you heard of a guy named William McCaskill?
Josh Janssen: [00:07:23] No,
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:25] he's a, a Scottish philosopher ethicist, and one of the originators of the effective altruism movement. Uh, Do you want to know what effective altruism is? Yeah. Cause I didn't know.
Um, it sounds cool though. It's a philosophy and social movement that advocates using evidence and reasoning to determine the most effective ways to benefit others. So it's like, um, donating money. What is the most beneficial? A charity to receive your money that will make the most change. And so like bed nets being an example of one that is a game changer.
And so you have like
Josh Janssen: [00:08:05] malaria stuff.
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like it's cheap to create the bed nets. You can create lots of them. That benefits lots of people. So it's like, that's one way of looking, looking at it. And, um, he, I think he did, he's a PhD on, I don't think it was on moral dilemmas, but it had the theme of those, like that kind of human decision-making like moral dilemmas, what actually goes on and, um, laying out some moral dilemmas in this podcast that he, that he was in, which.
I mean, it's fascinating when it, when it comes past Sam Harris and the episode,
Josh Janssen: [00:08:47] can we just call this hump date, replay, Sam Harris? Like just, you can just, you can pay the GB for Sam Harris.
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:53] Yeah, definitely. I mean, he's probably got enough people generating YouTube clips and, um, but I wanted to away from his podcast, uh, moral dilemmas are, is a fun game.
Where I will spit you a few moral dilemmas and you have to tell me which way you'd fly. Um, and I guess we're not the psychologist that can then dissect whether you're a psychopath or not. And based on your decision, um, because
Josh Janssen: [00:09:18] do you have an answer though? Like what's the, uh, so is there a correct interpretation or is there, is that going to be an answer?
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:26] I think no, when Liberty is literally just it's yeah. It where your mind goes with it. What, what's the rationale behind your thinking? I think it just more explains your sort of thought process.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:37] Right? I like this me,
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:38] so I've got 25 moral dilemmas when I could get through them all, because it sort of needs to lay out the situation.
I'll read you a few headlines of the moral dilemmas. You just tell me which one you'd like the runaway trolley, the deliberate infection, the hostage. Ecologist the life insurance policy, the submarine crew, any of those jump out at you?
Josh Janssen: [00:10:03] The runaway trolley. Yeah. Problematic. I feel like it's submarine. It feels like there's gonna be a lot of deaths in
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:12] big decisions.
Josh Janssen: [00:10:13] I feel like. Did you stop the trolley from hitting the Commodore? If the Commodore is about to. No. He had no like, uh,
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:24] runaway trolley. Here we go. Here we go. Put your thinking cap on what you'd do. A runaway trolley is heading down the tracks to, uh, towards five work men who will be killed. If the trolley proceeds on the present course, Molly is on a footbridge over the tracks.
In between the approaching trolley and the five workmen next to her on this footbridge is a stranger who happens to be very large. If she does nothing, the trolley will proceed causing the death of five workmen. The only way to save their lives of these workmen is to push this stranger off the bridge and onto the tracks below where his, where his large body will stop the trolley causing his death.
Should Molly push the stranger onto the tracks in order to save the five Workman you decide?
Josh Janssen: [00:11:21] No.
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:22] Molly shouldn't push the fat man.
Josh Janssen: [00:11:25] No, no, no. Well, cause the thing is there's no, there's no guarantee. I mean, this is begin sort of, uh, autonomous cars. This is the issue, right? So it's like, if you're a, if you're in a, uh, in an autonomous car and there's two bad scenarios, one is hitting one car, one scenarios, hitting a pedestrian or whatever it is.
How does the car work out? What to do? Um, But no, I think that there's, um, yeah, I, I, I don't think, uh, I think there's a good answer there.
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:59] Well, I think it's like one life versus five. So you're deciding that one life is worth more than the other five,
Josh Janssen: [00:12:10] but you're also, you're also considering that your decisions, right.
That that would in fact do it, which is,
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:18] well, I think that will do it. That's what you can't. I think the moral limits are painted in a why that's, this is what will happen and you have the decision it's not then making up on top of the moral dilemma. So the, the other thing to look at is. Um, it is, uh, it is a fight situation, but if you just take it as what it, what will happen, you will push and it will stop.
Or if you don't push, it will kill five. But then it's about the person that is willing to push somebody. And that decision making that you're actually, you have the ability to kill somebody
Josh Janssen: [00:12:57] isn't that like playing Dodd at that point.
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:01] Uh, well, it's, it's,
Josh Janssen: [00:13:04] it's saying it well, it's, it's saying, yeah. I mean, this is why it's the moral dilemma because, um, yeah, th there's a, there's a bunch of.
I mean, what, what website is this? Where are you pulling this from?
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:18] I mean, this
Josh Janssen: [00:13:21] random
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:21] wasn't to, to prevent that. Um, do you want me to give you one more,
Josh Janssen: [00:13:28] think the overweight bit has to do with it?
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:30] I don't know.
Josh Janssen: [00:13:31] I think you think that, like, if you look into it, like, this is like a guess where it's like a bit problematic, because what there, is there an implication there that he's potentially not as healthy or so then
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:41] trying to lay out a scenario that makes you.
Decide. And so there is, there could be, someone will make a decision bang, like fat bastard or push him, like, which is, you know, that's,
Josh Janssen: [00:13:52] you're not helping us fat phobic, um, review.
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This thing, but it's like, that is trying to activate something or they like putting little cues in these things to give somebody the opportunity to.
Uh, either make a decision based on their bias or past experience, you know? So it's like, yeah, I think those little details are purposeful in crafting, you know, or giving somebody the, you know, the, the, all the sort of scenarios that will then help them make a decision.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:29] So, so one thought of it. One thought of it is so they're on tracks and this is a trolley on the track.
Is that the idea
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:38] it's a trolley on track.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:39] Yeah. And so the thing is that there's the other element is that, uh, when, when the, uh, people who are working on the track, uh, they, they have they've signed into that work. And so they've also signed into. Though the OHNS and the risk and the things that are involved, the person that is walking across the bridge is just someone, uh, just a pedestrian walking.
And so I think that part of the consideration too, is that with every job there's a risk and that risk is associated with what those five people are doing. Hmm.
Tommy Jackett: [00:15:24] Yeah. I think for me, I couldn't the murdering bit. I mean, the, the actively deciding to push somebody is probably where it goes wrong for me. If and the five lives goes out of the, out, out of the equation at that point.
It's fun. I mean, it's, full-on um, as, as you said that, like that scenario is very, very common. I've heard that the Tesla version of the ILA, the autonomous car is like old pur decided to hit one old person or bump into a car and killed four young people.
Josh Janssen: [00:16:02] But isn't it. I think that this is the whole, this is the thing that's come out with.
All of the COVID stuff is it's like, like my view on it is it's a life is alive. And fortunately what we're saying is, um, in places like the U S it's like Affleck, if it kills a bunch of old people, like it is what it is. And so unfortunately like whether someone is 70 or they're 25, I think that as a society, we should value those lives equally.
Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, I think that that's the, yeah. That's why it's the moral dilemma. And I think that if you'll look at. What's happening in the world at the moment, you can say where some people's morals potentially are a bit skewed.
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:50] Yeah. Well, the one I heard them sort of outlying was there's a burning house and there's you, you can save one child or inside of that house is the Mona Lisa the painting.
And so you could take that off the wall, which. You could sell for a hundred million dollars or whatever it be and use that money to save millions of children. Which one do you do? Do you take the Mona Lisa or do you save the child?
Josh Janssen: [00:17:25] Yeah. Yeah, no, I think like, it's you, you save the child. I think that there's too much, too many sort of, uh, yeah, no, I think.
I feel like these, these things are easy. Like when I'm thinking about them, it's like that, that idea of the money to then enable this thing, the person who isn't willing to save the child that's in front of them, I wonder their moral compass or ability to, you know, what do you call it? You know, the, the little Freddy's.
Fire fund the a hundred million dollars that kid burnt, burnt alive to save a bunch of kids. Yeah. I just think it's
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:08] a real thing. What's that?
Josh Janssen: [00:18:10] I know. I'm just saying that that's what, like your acute, like, so I saved the Mona Lisa and, um, but obviously we've Freddy, Freddy. Freddy's fucking dead because you had to pick one.
Unfortunately with covert, it's only like with it all with all the, um, sort of, uh, changes in the economy, Mona, Lisa only worth 90 mil, but we're still gonna still be able to do a bunch. Like if we really thinking like the other, the other consideration too, is it's like, um, so many of these things are so ingrained and instinctive.
Like, so for me, it's like, if I see someone. Who's being injured might like, I think about this the other day, my first thing is to call an ambulance. Like, I don't feel like, I guess part of it comes down to, uh self-esteem or what do we think? What do we think is the, um, we can do it. What is it? What's the best tool that we have to be able to do something?
Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:12] yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent I think. Um, I mean, the. The extension from the like helping an individual to helping multiple individuals, like there is, there is so many opportunities for us to help multiple individuals, but I think is humans, the, the. Heroic save or the, the, the thing that's really clear to us that has the result of I helped an individual.
It could be one person, you know, like the sort of like one being able to directly impact like in India. Like I think the, if you were to donate money directly to somebody and have a relationship with them where you understood that we're doing with the money and you could see the benefit, like, it feels like it's.
There's more stimulus in the reward, then donating say like the bed net thing where you're helping lots of people with a similar amount of money. And so, but that's just ingrained in us as humans that like, yes, you know, how amazing you'd feel and heroic you'd feel saving somebody from the train tracks, one individual.
Versus many.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:28] I also know the differences between, uh, with visibility too. So I think that the answer would be different. So all of these moral, um, decisions would be different if, uh, if other people would know what happened. True. So I think that that's like a consideration. So it's, um, if, because if you think about it in government, in life, there are so many times where it's like, you are donating.
To a charity, you're making a decision on the charity, but doesn't mean that you're disregarding all other charities. Like people could say it that way, right? Oh, why are you supporting this thing when there's these starving people over here that that becomes like problematic. And I think that that's the issue that we're facing.
Uh, in the world at the moment, which is just like, there are so many issues. There's so many things that we need to fix that we need to work on.
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:23] There was a, um, charity set up, the idea was Merry go rounds in African countries. And the spinning of the merry-go-round would help, you know, the children could jump on and play and move their friends around in a circle and the movement.
Would, uh, draw water out of a boy, a bore or a whale. And so it was like this two-prong approach where it was fun for kids, but beneficial for the village. And it got so much traction and there was celebrities endorsing it, millions and millions of dollars donated from the U S government. And, um, and they, and they went ahead with it.
The development of it. And it with all the praise and it being like a cool idea. You could imagine Buzzfeed running a article about it and it was a disaster. It, what happens is the kids got tired and the village, it ended up having to be used by the elderly women in the village, drawing out the water,
Josh Janssen: [00:22:35] which, yeah, I mean, this is what I think that, um, Yeah.
There's so many examples of like, I don't think necessarily the most important charity wins the ones with the best marketing or the best ability to communicate a story. There's so many examples of that. There's um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:53] they do win in, in terms of winning. If they're, if they're playing that game of best advertising
Josh Janssen: [00:22:59] or, well, no.
So the thing is that if you're in a, if you're a charity, what are you trying to do? You're trying to have impact. And so this is the thing with Darla's gala's people, you look at them and it's like, Oh, this is there's a wing Fest, but they work like galas work. The, um, there was a charity where they spent like the quarter of a million dollars on a VR experience where everyone sat down and they had their own a VR headset and they put it on and they could, uh, basically walk around this village and, um, it communicated a great story.
And the thing was. That, that, uh, campaign, uh, that sort of, uh, you know, set of raising, they raised millions of dollars. And so whilst a quarter of a million dollars, seems like a lot of money when you look at the impact that it can have. And that's what I think is relevant when we spoke to Daniel Flynn from thank you was it's like, Uh, it's not this thing of money versus charity or business versus charity.
We need to work out a solution that encourages the best people in the world, the best people in their field, the best marketers, the best operations people to work in these important industries. And with this important sort of. A goal because otherwise it's like, if we assume that charity, you know, they need to be not spending much money and doing all that.
So I think like what business does well without spending large amounts of money on marketing?
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:31] Well then yeah, the, the great minds of the world are usually lucid towards working for the big tech companies or like, you know, problem solving because there is high reward. Monitoring not to say that that's greedy on their behalf, but maybe that's just where their field of expertise ends up sort of directing them.
And then it's. Yeah. So it's like the, the appealing nature of solving some problems that would save lives might not be that appealing or might not have what you're saying like that, that, that drawer in effect. That say, come work for Google might have
Josh Janssen: [00:25:14] well that, but I think that that's why. We, we have things a bit skewer for at the moment that that is the thing, you know, the, uh, that doing that.
Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, it's high status to work for a big tech company and we see the impact and we sort of, we write articles, but there are many people who are nurses, doctors, teachers, all these things that actually are so important and they're not getting paid. The most. And so there is, I guess this is, this is the big issue of our generation is how do we, how do we create a system that doesn't just benefit 1% that are great at say solving technology problems, but distributed across to people who are having massive impacts.
Like if, if we didn't have teachers, if we didn't have nurses, if we didn't have all these people. We'd be faxed, but yet we, um, if, if find money is one way that we not only reward people, but also show a level of appreciation or show status in society, we should be bringing people who are, you know, first responders, people who are, you know, um, doing the hard work that, you know, think about what we do.
I think that entertainment think about how many comedians entertainers. Uh, super, super wealthy and think about what they get to do. And then you think about the, you know, the people who are showing up every day doing the unsexy work. Um, I don't know what the answer is.
Tommy Jackett: [00:26:56] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's tough.
There's so much appeal to the status of, you know, that high status in that way.
Josh Janssen: [00:27:05] So I need good people. We need, we need critical thinkers. We need people who are also think socially responsible in companies like Google, like Facebook to make sure that there's some accountability. So the, the other thing too, is we can't.
You don't want to, we need to make sure that these organizations that have a huge amount of power also have a moral camp, a moral compass as well. Um, we've got an email. What to think about, we got an email from Julia. So we asked, uh, have you had a dream about us? Day. Julia says, Hey team. The other night, I was scrolling in saran before I went to bed and saw Josh's TDTs quote saying if he had a dream about us, send us an email.
And then that night I had a dream about you. This is what shit, this is what the dream was. Are you ready? Yeah, basically, I had to order a pizza for you all. And Josh was stressing to me over the phone that it had to be delivered within the hour and a half. Otherwise you wouldn't eat it, but a lady overheard the conversation and told me not to bother because that pizza place was apparently hopeless.
And would take two hours minimum, super random. And I don't know how it ended. Ha hopefully if you've had, uh, hopefully you've had some more interesting dream emails and this one, Julia, that's a great email,
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:32] right? You had us at food chat, Julia it's I plus
Josh Janssen: [00:28:36] it's very consistent, but at least I'm consistent in people's dreams as well.
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:40] Complaining about your order, a pizza with him. I mean, that's understandable if you got it. Fewer to pizza rolls over an hour. You'd be pissed. You would be pissed.
Josh Janssen: [00:28:50] I mean, this is the thing, uh, bring, and I, uh, we're talking about restaurants going to a restaurant, left it too late. Just like it's it's already booked up.
Have you noticed this, tried this at all? Like just with the lockdowns easing the, um, they were like, Oh, let's go to this restaurant site. Okay. Not this weekend.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:10] Well, maybe see it as a sign.
Josh Janssen: [00:29:12] It's definitely ready. But the other thing is haircuts. Like the thing I can't, you know what I'm like, I, I don't like lines.
I don't like waiting. I don't like the sitting on the couch. Who's going next, sitting there. People
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:28] are, you could, you could, you could find one week, it'd take a booking. I mean, it's rather than the lining up. So you could dislike really pushing
Josh Janssen: [00:29:38] a lot of the hips to places like, so they promoting that more now is booking promoted.
So like the barber down the road. Do you think of that? Like barbers that would normally just like, not do bookings.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:54] Cause that's a funny way. Yeah. I mean, I was surprised that the place that I went to on the weekend usually is a booking or you could . Yeah. Yeah. But usually it is, it's not a, it's not a class as a barber where you're just like line up, get your hair haircut when you, when we're ready.
But there's a heap of places. Maybe walking, get yourself a real nice treatment. 150 spit drop, 150 on the, on your first haircut.
Josh Janssen: [00:30:20] I mean, what's the. I would pay extra for no banter. That's one thing I think that if I, like, I think that it would be a great, what about, you know, how they do, um, at the, uh, at the, the supermarkets they'll do like a quiet Wednesday for people with like autism or whatever, where it's like, Oh, we like turn off the music, dim down the lights.
Can we have this for barbers? Like, I would pay more for sort of the. Autism hour where I can go and it's just no bullshit, no combo. Just cut my hair.
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:59] What about you lean into it and you put on a persona. I reckon it'd be easier for you to act as someone else, you know, um, Jason Lanson just, and then just go
Josh Janssen: [00:31:13] full persona.
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:14] Just just your, a cheapy and you've had it. You've been working the whole time. I mean, they might see your hands, but that's okay. They won't, they're not gonna say anything.
Josh Janssen: [00:31:26] Well, maybe like, what are you working on now? Just to work side on Smith street.
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:31] Yeah. Well, what is it big one or small one?
Josh Janssen: [00:31:33] Uh, yeah, it's a big one, but we can't have many people on site at the moment.
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:38] Oh, it's been annoying about the COVID stuff. Hasn't it? It's like, you know, we've been out, we haven't been out of work in a long, so they always bring it back to them and then just listen.
Josh Janssen: [00:31:47] Do you think they're saying the same thing about you?
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:51] I mean, where I went, I, um, the, he, they were Persian. They seem to want to talk in Persian more than English.
They can speak English very well, but I had the got anything. My Miguel at the end of the day, that's it tired? Don't want to fucking talk, you know, they're, they've done 40 cuts in a day and they they're just, you might get a less quality haircut, but that's okay. You get less.
Josh Janssen: [00:32:16] I've actually got a great PR idea.
This would actually, this would get a barber in the news. I'm just, I'm being deadly serious. It's called the no banter barber. And so it's, that's all you can be guaranteed that there'll be no banter potentially even, um, uh, like I wonder if they could cut through a, um, he's another name, the glory hole, Baba.
It's just, they have a hole and they cut through you. You just go on the one side with your head and that you do it. You don't have to know who the barber is.
Tommy Jackett: [00:32:52] Say, you don't have to make eye contact.
Josh Janssen: [00:32:54] Yeah, well, yeah, you can see your face, but you just sort of see. A, um, a background with a hole and you just see the scissors and the thing come out there is my thing going, the tremors
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:04] masks take, take away that sort of personal element.
I think, you know, you can't see someone's facial cues signs. And so, yeah. Yeah. I reckon I reckon you're safe or there's just a leaning in doing it and just don't talk. I think if I think what you're talking about is the people that don't have any signal, any. Understanding of social cues,
Josh Janssen: [00:33:25] if you know, because I, the thing is that I'm terrible at giving the correct social cue.
So I go, like what you're talking about, I go the other way where I'm like, I need to be personable. I knew, but, and so I became like best mates with one hairdresser, whereas like, Oh my mates actually looking for like a subleasing, someone I'm like, I've got a place. And so he's like texting me his mates number and it's just, it became too much too quickly.
It was talking about his, um, his drug addiction and drug abuse and things like that. And so it just, it became this thing where I, I liked him, but I was just like, it became too much. And the thing was that it was also like I just came in with so much confidence. And so I remember saying to him, and I'm like, I never do this, but like I've found the hairdresser.
Like let's, I'm going to start booking in every year, six weeks. And then just by, I think like the second appointment, I was like, this is, this is too much. This is, uh, this is tiring for both of us, I think, because he felt like he was bringing so, and so the thing is, it's like, You don't want to have to go to the hairdresser and have them say, ah, did you, um, did you hear from my mate about the lease?
And then you have to explain that it's more of an office space. It doesn't really suit having a brewery, like set up, you know, that type of thing. And so this is the, this is what happens.
Tommy Jackett: [00:34:51] Just shut your mouth.
Josh Janssen: [00:34:54] Don't talk. No banter, Baba,
Tommy Jackett: [00:34:56] no banter. None
Josh Janssen: [00:34:59] just nod. Yeah. The other thing is like live, starting to live here too much.
That's a good excuse wisdom, wisdom, teeth.
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:06] Isn't it.
Josh Janssen: [00:35:08] I've done. I don't know if this is obnoxious. I think it probably is done this a few times on my walks. I decided to the other person, I actually can't be talking. Can you just talk and I'll listen, is that your
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:20] work with them since?
Josh Janssen: [00:35:22] Yeah, I've done it with a Jack.
I did it with Brie this morning, actually.
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:27] What's the you experience at that point, if Craig like Craig Harper says,
Josh Janssen: [00:35:31] I think it's like a depends if they want to talk or not. I think that's an honesty thing. Right. Which is just like it, like, I'm just, I've got fucking nothing. I can you just, why did I do it?
I feel like it's a specific reason. Yeah. I've just been talking all day. I was like, can you either, that was the thing that Jack ended up being like, okay, well, um, when I said, can you just talk. He was like, okay, well, I'm, I'm guessing you'd be talking right now about this. And then I'd probably say this. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:05] yeah.
Yeah. If they drop off, it's not working for you. If they hang in there, they might see it as a fun game.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:13] We ended up talking, I think, but it's just sometimes, sometimes. Do you ever do that? Have you ever said, or you called just to talk.
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:22] Nah, never.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:23] Okay. It's good. It takes a lot of like, when it's just, there's something nice about it because you can try and trick them into it by asking them like a question that you hope they give a long answer for.
But there's also something interesting about seeing someone just monologue next to you. So they have to just come up with the thing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:42] Yeah. It's a weird challenge. I mean, some people might lean into it. What happens if there's two of you? It's a silent walk.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:50] Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:51] yeah, like this, which I think is
Josh Janssen: [00:36:52] perfect. Like I think that there's something I get so excited when there's silence do feel silence.
Well,
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:00] no. So the thing is, that's the contradiction. You F you love to feel it.
Josh Janssen: [00:37:04] And I used to be like that. I don't think I'm like that anymore.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:06] Well, the baby situation, you're saying, cause then in that case you could actually just, if you just stopped talking, they'd probably stop. And if they don't stop.
That's on them.
Josh Janssen: [00:37:17] So the thing is, my only issue with silence is if the other person isn't across what's going on. And so the thing is that if the people that I'm close with silence is all good because we understand that. And so the thing is it's the, uh, I think this is across the board. When you get more familiar with someone or become closer, there, isn't a sense that you need to keep the conversation going the whole time.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:42] Right. Yeah. It's the classic, you know, I can't believe we're, we're so close now. Like when we drive, we don't even have to talk, but we know we like each other.
Josh Janssen: [00:37:49] Exactly.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:50] It's like the new relationship I've said that probably 10
Josh Janssen: [00:37:52] times. That's your way of getting out of talking. Yeah, it just does like, Oh, isn't it great.
We don't have to talk. And then you just put on matchbox 20.
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:04] Alright. Thanks. Happy Tuesday to much tallies episode has just dropped.
Josh Janssen: [00:38:09] I think we might win. I've got a special guest tomorrow. I think we'll bring that we're going to prerecord for later in the week, but I think we actually put it out tomorrow. TJ so special guest, uh, tomorrow on the show. Uh, hi, the daily talk, show.com.
Send us an email. How you going if you're in Melbourne and you're getting out of lockdown, or do you have any advice in regards to how I can go to the barber? Without, uh, social anxiety.
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:34] You've got a Baba that just doesn't talk. And yet that's why you go to them, but there's no, there's no agreement between the two of you, but that's just why it's the way it goes down.
Josh Janssen: [00:38:44] Yeah. Uh, leave us a review on Apple podcasts. If you are inclined, uh, outside of that, enjoy the rest of your day and we'll send him, our guys have a good one.
See you guys.