Serendipitous Moments

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 890.

Tommy: What is happening, Gronks? What's going on? How are we?

Josh: Very good. I've been going to Podcast Movement, which is a conference which—

Tommy: I thought it was a fucking Zumba class. The latest and greatest. You listen to podcasts while doing exercise.

Josh: Dancing to spoken word, I believe.

Tommy: Interpretive dance to Joe Rogan.

Josh: Have you been to many conferences in your time?

Tommy: Well, I mean, as you and I have been in the video production game for quite some time, I've been to a bunch by proxy of that. Other than that, it's when Jules Lund has given me some free pass.

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: And I rock up, rock up. So, but I mean—

Josh: Is sexpo a conference?

Tommy: Well, I call it one. That's what I was talking about. No. No, no, see, I haven't worked for businesses enough, like bigger business, where that's who sent— like, I was always the tight-ass going, I'm not paying $800 for a whole day of a conference.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so, and nor would anyone there. It's all their work. Their work is going, we need to educate these people that work for us, so let's send them to a conference. But I like the idea.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, you're spot on because like even when I was looking, you can see the attendee list. You get the attendee list, it's very good. Like it's you scroll through looking who you know, and a lot of people from ABC Australia. And, um, it makes sense, big businesses, you know, these government organizations, that's the big thing. That's one of the— like, when I've worked for bigger businesses, you actually get like a learning and development budget. It's like a percentage of your salary.

Tommy: Yeah. So what's the name of it again? Is it Podcast?

Josh: Podcast Movement.

Tommy: Podcast movement. Interesting. And so, I mean, I was receiving a Slack message at 3:30 AM last night. Didn't wake me up, but I woke up to it at 6 when I went for a walk, and I was like, this guy.

Josh: And that wasn't even— that even wasn't based on what was happening at the conference. That was just me getting emails. Like, I'm not even joking. Ah, just like, you know, do another shit.

Tommy: But, um, so you weren't up because I know the conference was late at night in real time.

Josh: You Yeah, so I did 2 AM to 4 AM last night, last morning slash this morning.

Tommy: You're an animal.

Josh: But it's great, I loved it. It reminds me, like it's, I think I've done it a bunch of times, like not so much like virtual. This is one of the first virtual conferences that I've been to where it's got multiple streams and they have the attendee list. You can just go through it. Like Michael Mungay-Stanyer was there. And I just like, oh, g'day, mate. Just like jump on his attendee thing. Normal time for him.

Tommy: Yeah, normal time. That guy's just doing a normal day, mate. You're up at 2 AM. And so what was the vibe at 2 AM for you?

Josh: It was good. No, I was trying to work out the best way. So I put my alarm on for 1:50 in the morning and I actually woke up in anticipation at 1:30. I was like, oh, this is great. I'm not going to put the alarm because I went through, I don't have the alarm, I don't use the alarm much. And when I was going through listening to the sounds, there wasn't one sound that wasn't going to give me anxiety. Like, do you think if you listen to, it reminds you of, I've got this big thing to do, or I've got to rush to the airport, or have I got my passport? Like, it's the, they need to rethink the way they do their alarms. Well, I'm so sweaty that my index cards have stuck to the back.

Tommy: The new iOS operating system has the ability to use a song from Apple Music, but then you have to have Apple Music as a subscription.

Josh: So, I don't think that justifies the Apple subscription. Absolutely not.

Tommy: That's right. As I'm saying, I'm like—

Josh: But you know that I would. Yeah. Mate, why have you got Apple Music? I like to wake up to It's the Final Countdown.

Tommy: Well, I had Apple Music the first year that I had my Telstra phone. Like when I went and moved to Telstra, they gave it to me for free. And it was good because you could just yell at your phone, play this. I mean, but now you can do, if you've got an Amazon at home, like there's so many new options. And so, yeah, it's a little bit bizarre. So anyway, any good learnings from your 2 AM session?

Josh: So the great thing is this thing goes for 10 days. So over the next few days, I'll just—

Tommy: I was wondering why you wanted me to drop off that bag of ice.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I'm going to have to have a big sesh. But no, it's the— yeah, it runs for like 10 days. So this morning, what was I watching? Stuff on like podcast advertising. They did a big sort of like state of podcasting, which was interesting. I took a photo of some stats. It was like, um, let's have a look here. Uh, here's, here's a fun stat for you all. Uh, 54% of people, like the high, like the, the top, um, it was how— I can't fucking speak. Uh, how listeners discover new spoken word content, uh, new spoken word audio. How do you think people—

Tommy: what would be the number one reason Oh, a friend of a friend, like someone just, uh, referral.

Josh: So the highest was actually searching the internet. So Google, like Google majority, or just like, you know, searching on any, on podcast apps, I guess. But I just, I thought that was interesting. Yeah, that was one of the, the main things. There was also, there's been a huge, um, uptick in people listening in the home. And the 82% of people said that the reason they love listening to podcasts is because of the multitasking.

Tommy: Being able to multitask. Yeah. I mean, Craig Harper on yesterday's show was mentioning our show is a good multitasking show. I don't know if that's what we've strived for in our life, in our existence. But, you know, like you can do a bunch of other stuff. There is some Like even last night walking, listening to a meditation— it wasn't a meditation session, it was like a conversation around meditation with two, two teachers. And for the first probably 15 minutes of my walk, I really was focused in on what they were saying. I was connecting, I was speaking out aloud to myself, just repeating stuff. But then when I noticed that I was like coming closer to people I would blank and I wouldn't have listened to a second of what they said because I was thinking about the situation, you know, eyeing up just, you know, my surroundings, what was going down. And then I had to rewind it. And so, there is some— Like for that, I need to rewind because I'm needing to understand it. But I was distracted a little while and I ended up stopping the whole podcast because This is, I can tell you, Josh, my walking is paying off.

Josh: Really? Why do you say that?

Tommy: I'm making cash.

Josh: What do you mean you're making cash?

Tommy: I'm making cash, son.

Josh: Are you delivering the paper?

Tommy: No, that's a great idea. That is a great idea to get your step count up, start a pharmacy round.

Josh: Yeah, like back in the day.

Tommy: No, last night while I walked down, needed to get quite a few steps in late.

Josh: Can I guess what happened? Yeah, you walked past a bakery and they said, hey mate, we see you walking all the time, would you— we're going to chuck this bread out, do you want some bread?

Tommy: I mean, I made some bread, but it wasn't in the form of a loaf.

Josh: Okay, great.

Tommy: It was the form of cash money.

Josh: Cash money.

Tommy: Cash money. So I was walking around this oval, I go down and I just like— I did 7 laps the other day and I was so disappointed how little steps that I'd got in Got up, I was like, I'm out of here. So I just walked off, I got bored. But I'm so glad that I went down to this oval last night because I did a loop and then I noticed on the ground there was like, just looked like a, you know, those like, I wouldn't use one, but like they're a phone case that encumbers, it's like it almost makes it look like a whole brick. Like it's, you can store everything in there as well as your phone. And so I saw one on the ground.

Josh: You found someone's wallet?

Tommy: Well, I walked around again. I didn't touch it because there was a few people around. Then I came back around, I was like, I kicked it like a little tap. I was like, is that like something in there? Because I've been fooled before, like a phone case upside down that has no phone in it. I'm just like, ah, that got me. Anyway, I picked it up and it was a full wallet, like probably 10 cards in there, everything you need. There was the phone in there, put it on, there's a, you know, nice family on the background of the phone. It was, you know, fully charged, no missed calls or anything. And so I saw these guys and I was like, boys, boys, is this your phone? He's like, no, no, it's been there for a while. I see, they've, they've seen it, they've spotted it. And so I ended up, I ended up, um, going over to the guys and they're like, yeah, no, it's not ours, let's, you know, I was like, oh, let's have a look. And so we ended up pulling out the licence that was in there and the guy's name was there. And one of the guys was like, oh, it's just this street right next to the park. And so then there's a bit of banter about, oh, is there cash in there? And I say, fuck off, mate, you didn't pick it up. You say that, fucking finders keepers, dog. Anyway, like, I opened it up and sure enough there was like 50s, 20s. It was cashed up.

Josh: Wow.

Tommy: And I put in my pocket and I walked home. And now I'm— no, no, I didn't.

Josh: I was like, look, I was a little bit nervous. Like, I'm excited where this is going because where it sounded like it was going is like I found a bunch of cash in a wallet and finders keepers.

Tommy: What would you do?

Josh: What would you do? I would do exactly what you're doing. I think this is crazy. So I took it to this house, I walked over, and you want to do it like you don't want to give it to the cops because you want the, um, you want the prize. You want just like, you don't want like a, you don't want a reward or anything, but you just want to be like, mate, that's, you are a top bloke.

Tommy: I just think how annoying it is if I've ever lost something or it's just, it is the most frustrating thing. Cancelling your cards, your phone.

Josh: Hopefully they hadn't already cancelled.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I got to this house, it was like two townhouses. A guy comes out of one, he's doing the bins, he's doing his, you know, putting out his recycling. I said, mate, is this 27? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, oh, um, is blah blah blah, does he live here? And, uh, he's like, oh yeah, he's inside. Like, he was a bit rattled by it all because it's like some random bloke in a mask. And then I was like, mate, I've found his phone and cards and cash. He's like, oh mate, he would— bloody hell, you're a good bloke, mate. Hang on, hold on, he's fucking emptying the bins. No, no, no, you gotta come in here. If he fucking doesn't give you something for this, I'm gonna be—

Josh: if he doesn't give me fucking COVID, I'm getting me pissed off. I've got to shake your hand. I'm sorry, I have to shake—

Tommy: No, I respect that. He went out and I was like, oh my God, he's gonna shake my hand. He knuckled me. He just fist bumped me. Lovely older dude. And then he brought me inside and he's yelling out to this guy, let's call him John. He's like, John, John, Tom's here, Tom's here. You don't know Tom, but Tom knows you. And then we get up the top. This guy's looking so confused. He's like, what's going on? And he's like, Tom has found your phone and wallet. And he's like, oh, oh my God. Turned out his dog had an epileptic fit at the park and he must have like leant down, fell out of his pocket, ran, ran home with the poor dog. The dog survived. John's got his wallet back. And John— I stayed there for 10 minutes having a chat Talking about business.

Josh: Get a bit of biscuit or something, or what'd you?

Tommy: Offered me a glass of red wine. I said, sorry, mate, I'm, you know, trying to cut back. And he said, yeah, I should too.

Josh: Was Amy messaging you at this point? Like, where the fuck are you?

Tommy: No, Amy was fine. Amy was with Bodhi. And so, I mean, she was happy when I came home with a pineapple.

Josh: John said to me— That is a $50 note for people playing at home.

Tommy: I said, I look, I said, no, I don't want, no, nothing. Don't, like, I just know how annoying it is, guys.

Josh: No, as it's in your pocket or something, just flicking as it's going into your pocket. You're like, nah, mate, I can't take it. Where has it gone then?

Tommy: And so, no, he was insistent and I was like, no, no, please, please, please. You know, I told him that I had a young son. He's like, for your family, for your family.

Josh: Just for the ooshies, get some ooshies.

Tommy: And I was like, mate, that's nice. And so yeah, I made $50 last night. He's this though, these young guys said to me, said, oh, if they give you something, make sure you chuck us half. These guys from the park. And I was like, I thought about it after, I was like, those little, those little rats saw it there, they decided not to touch it, not to do anything with it, and then they want half of my hard-earned Cash money? Absolutely not. So I got— I left the house and I saw them sort of loitering, and one of them yelled out to me, he's like, 'Your run's already over?' And I was like— I just kept walking.

Josh: I was like, 'Mate, do you know what you should have said?' You should— a power move would have been to hand them the 50 bucks and say, 'Guys, this is for you. He gave me 10 grand,' and then walk off.

Tommy: Oh dude. So, I mean, it pays to be nice. And that's what they were saying, like, "Ah, fuck, it's so nice that there's good people." I was like, I thought there was no other option in my mind.

Josh: I would have been. So, yeah, it's interesting going into people's homes like that. Like the last time I— It all happened very quickly. Yeah. It reminds me of when I was, when I saw the car crash in Rome and remember I got video of it.. And like of the car speeding off. And then I got, before you know it, I'm in this, what I think is a house. And it was because it was right next to the Vatican. It was a Christian radio station. And I was giving them the file and then they gave me a tour of their radio station.

Tommy: That's right. You get a photo with the lovely bloke.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so, you were giving them the footage as like, you know, handing in footage to a media outlet.

Josh: I was like, I can't do anything. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they were going to run it. No, but I was, no, because I was like, okay, I've got this footage. I'm in a foreign country. I don't know what to do with this sort of thing. And they were calling the police. But yeah, it was like that. But there is something funny about the word when you're on a street normally and then all of a sudden you find yourself in someone's house. Yeah. It's sort of a weird feeling, don't you think?

Tommy: I mean, it all felt natural, but I guess that's what happens also if you're going, you know, next minute I'm locked in a basement. I guess it's like all kind of, It all just happened. The guy was— It all seemed kind of friendly, you know, come in, come in.

Josh: What time did he— What time did his epileptic fit of the dog happen?

Tommy: I think it was like a couple of hours before. And the guy, he hadn't even—

Josh: He didn't even think— He didn't think to go.

Tommy: Nah.

Josh: Because he was just rattled. Was he really upset about the dog?

Tommy: No, the dog was fine. Ran over to me.

Josh: G'day.

Tommy: And he's like, oh, it's just— It's having epileptic fits. We don't— We're trying to work out what's going on with it.

Josh: And so, yeah, wouldn't you think that the first thing you would do is go to where you bent down to like help the dog or like where you were?

Tommy: You would if you realise that you would even, you'd even lost it.

Josh: Oh, so, he didn't even know?

Tommy: No.

Josh: Oh, he didn't even get the joy of the panic of, ah, fucking lost it.

Tommy: Hadn't thought about it. I'm sure he probably would have tracked his steps back.

Josh: Was it an iPhone or what sort of phone?

Tommy: IPhone, yeah, iPhone, probably 8 or something like an old, quite an older version. But I mean, the cash was in there. The cash was in there, the cards were in there. It was bizarre. I mean, here's one thing, I'm glad I didn't actually mention it 'cause I thought about it after the fact. I held down, got Siri and I said, call home. I've done this a couple of times when I found a phone. It's a good go-to. And only what came up was mum, Home, and I pressed Mum Home. I was like, that seems like a goer. And this phone, you know, this number's not connected.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, sure. I was like, yeah.

Tommy: Like, then I met him and I was like, he's an older dude, maybe Mum's not around anymore.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And I knew I was going to bring it up, but I'm glad I didn't.

Josh: Yeah, pick your moment.

Tommy: I wouldn't, wouldn't have got my 50. But anyway, it's, um, you know At least someone's making money from this bloody steps challenge.

Josh: That's great. That's a great story. It's very good. And it's also like, I feel like everything at the moment has that lens of like, we'll look back, it's like, yeah, 2020, what a year. I remember like, this is going to be a good storey to tell the grandkids.

Tommy: Such a good story.

Josh: What are you going to use the $50? Like, are you going to do something specific with the $50?

Tommy: Oh yeah, it's me mum's birthday, so I'm gonna Oh great, book her up. Are you gonna grab— I mean, get her something?

Josh: You're just gonna give her the fitty?

Tommy: No, she's given me enough cash in my life. It's time to pay it back.

Josh: You see, you can just get flowers, flowers, nice card, nice kiss.

Tommy: Um, that's about it.

Josh: Yeah, great.

Tommy: I mean, 50 bucks doesn't go far these days. I didn't think I walked into a pizza shop.

Josh: Okay, what am I gonna fucking buy with 50 bucks?

Tommy: John, John, you fucking piece of shit, man. I just needed 150 at least. No, I literally was walking past the pizza shop and I was like, maybe I go in there and just say, here's the 50, like as an upfront for when I come in next time.

Josh: But I was like, ah, that's a fun— it's a— yeah, I like the—

Tommy: just found it upfront, like you guys, you know, put it, you know, give— the guy knows me. Here's the thing, I've told— I'm so impressed by people that remember names, like at scale, like Pizza shop people, cafe owners, just— I don't know how they— I say it once or you over— I reckon this guy even overheard me talking to his staff member. I walked past the pizza shop last night. Tom!

Josh: Hey!

Tommy: Just fucking— I'm like, this is the best.

Josh: It is. It is nice.

Tommy: I don't really—

Josh: I don't have that, but I push back on that experience, right? Like, as soon as— we've said this before— as soon as the barista learns my name, Yeah, it becomes an issue.

Tommy: It's a, um, as a CIA operative.

Josh: Well, I even sort of say like, it's so unfair because I'll say like, you know, we've got, there's another cafe that's got a new owner and I'm like, oh, it'd be nice to, um, say hello or like support them or whatever, being new. And so, I said, Bri, can you go and like, she's like the liaison officer for the household.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because the thing— But I know that she has better banter than what I have. I just don't. I just don't play well in that sort of, that style, if that makes sense. Because I feel like I'd freak them out because I would just go, I just want to keep talking. I was speaking to Scooter on the phone the other day. Yeah. And I just had told Bri, I'm like, I don't feel like leaving the house today, let's just chill or whatever. Anyway, Scooter calls, he's like, ah mate, yeah, just walking around Collingwood, what are you up to? And it's like clear that, you know, he's asking if I want to go for a walk.

Tommy: He's fishing.

Josh: I was like, uh, I've just said no to Bri, so I'll look like a prick if I don't, so I'll just, I've got to stay here.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Okay, cool. And so, we're having this conversation And as he's having it, it's like this weird sort of reverb thing happening with his phone. It's almost like an echo.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I'm like, I look out the window and he's standing out the front. He, he, when he called me, he was out the front of my place and he was just leaning up against a giveaway sign having this full convo. I just said, ask her to— I can come down, I'll just come down for a quick walk because it's just— I could actually hear him. From the street talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I mean, I've done that, I've done that. Like, hey mate, I'm in the neighborhood, i.e., out the fucking front of your house. Yeah, but you don't say it because you're just like, if it doesn't, you seem too keen. And so he got done. But I tell you what, Scooter is the byproduct of the opposite of that approach that you, you feel that you, you take. Yeah, because I walked into Scooter's repair shop 'Hey mate, just like, you know, full.' I find it easier when I don't know anybody, like when I'm— yeah, like when I was in Bondi, like I felt like it was, don't know anyone, don't really care, no one knows who I am. And so if I just kind of lead with, 'Hey, I'm new. Hey, how are you?' Like, and so he— Scooter was the version of just moved in down there. Like, I had no idea that he was best friends with the guy who owns, who I was leasing my studio off, and next minute we're in his fucking— his dyno room testing out my electric skateboard. So it's like, I appreciate the weird situations that I've been in from that approach. Yeah, like being in someone's house, or, you know, next minute it's like— it's— I kind of appreciate. So I get that it can be weird what I'm actually doing, but serendipitous moments, I always I always end up loving them.

Josh: But I think that they normally happens overseas. It normally happens when I'm sort of the international guy and then you get brought in and things happen.

Tommy: Yeah, it's definitely easier, isn't it? It's like, and so, what is it? What is the difference at home, do you think?

Josh: I don't know. I think like, don't you think that when you travel, you are just more open? So, it's like, you know, when you're at a, you know, you're in line at a café, Starbucks or whatever, you'll be like, ah, you'll sort of be turning around almost ready for banter. And then you get home and it lasts a day. You say hello to one person on the street and then next minute you're like, fuck off. Like, get out of my way.

Tommy: Do you think, I was just thinking, so, when I travel, I'm on, it's like I'm on fucking red cordial in terms of trying to connect dots of individual. So I'm looking around, like, I'm actually, you know me when I'm out, I'm like fucking looking to— I'm eyeballing people and they're eyeballing, like. And so if I could make a connection with some of them, and that's how I end up spotting someone in Sydney when I went up to— when I used to go to visit Amy when we were living in separate states. She was like, you know, this guy's coming from, you know, Melbourne or Shepparton. And then I'm like, yeah, I know a few people in Sydney. And next, next minute we're fucking bumping into a bunch of people. Hey, she's like, what the fuck? But I think I, I think I actually I think I look to find that stuff. Like, I'm always looking, like I'm the person that spots a celebrity, like, because I'm looking.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I'm definitely— I've bumped into more people when overseas, like, not even joking.

Tommy: Yeah, I reckon you're looking, the filter's on. Okay, different environment, let's see if there's any sort of recognisable faces or places.

Josh: We're in West Hollywood. Joshua Fields Millburn from The Minimalists. The first time Bree and I are just walking to— Yeah. Where are we walking to? What's the— Whole Foods. Whole Foods?

Tommy: Yeah, walking to Whole Foods.

Josh: And we just bump into Josh. And then, you know, 2 years later, or sorry, 2 years or a year? Yeah, a bit later. A year and a half. Yeah, it was a year later. He bumped into us out the front of our Airbnb.

Tommy: I was packing, I went out to pack the car. I'm like, oh my God, that's Joshua Fields Millsburn walking towards us. And then I came in and got you, you're pantless.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And we got a great photo out of it. It was one of the best photos of our trip. Minimal pants.

Josh: But there is something good about that, like from a conference perspective. There is something about leaning into, I'm going to see— this is sort of my world, or like, there's going to be— I'm just going to lean into it. Like when I went to South By, it was like, you know, catching up with people. Who can we see? You know, like you sort of— yeah, it's this time where it's like, oh, I can— everyone's feeling the same way, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Tommy: What about when you bumped into that guy on the bridge in the CBD.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, Matt Mullenweg from WordPress. Yeah, no, I mean, that was an interesting one. We were, um, he was, so he was the co-creator of WordPress. He was like the founder, and he was meeting up at Envato with Collis, who's the founder of, co-founder of Envato, and I was going to hang around. I wanted to hang around the office, um, so I could say g'day, and I just ran out of time. I'm like, ah, fuck this, I've got to go. And so I was walking, I was actually going to meet Keegs, uh, and Briny, uh, from Fox, uh, because I, I guess, um, it'd been like a year and a half or whatever, and they were working on some exciting stuff. And so I was walking across the bridge from the city going towards South Melbourne, and I saw Matt Mullenweg and I stopped him and I said, oh hey, hey mate, are you going to Envato? He's like, yeah. I'm like, oh, just go this way and then turn right. And he's like, oh, thanks so much. And I kept walking, had my meeting in South Melbourne, walked back, and when I arrived back at Envato, Collis and Matt were standing out the front of the, of the office. And, um, call us and, oh, this is Josh. He's like, oh, did I just meet you earlier? I was like, yeah, yeah, we're just across the bridge. He's like, oh yeah, you made me feel like a rock star. And, um, he said, are you going to the event? There was a, there was a talk on a WordPress meetup. And, um, he said, oh, are you going? I said, I didn't get, uh, tickets because I've just been overseas. He's like, I just say, um, uh, just say my name at the door. And so it's very funny because I'm mates with all the or a bunch of the Melbourne WordPress people. Yeah. And so I just rocked up and I was like, hey, like it was my mate Aaron, I think, at the door. I was like, oh, Matt Mullenweg just said to say his name. They're like, fuck off, Josh, have you got tickets? Nah, Matt, like he said to do it. And they're like, they're not fucking happy about it. Like, Josh, you know how many people have been waiting for tickets? And But I wanted to get him on my podcast, Josh Speaking. This is back in 2013. And so, I thought, okay, I'm going to ask a question. And so, I was thinking about like, you know, at the end of the, like once he's done the talk and it's Q&A, I'll think of a good question to ask that he likes and gets a good answer. So, I put up my hand and he said, before I answer, have you got tickets to be here? Which I thought was a very funny joke. That's so good.

Tommy: And then, Because it's so in though.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's so in, it's so in.

Tommy: But you and him get it. Yeah, he's the guy that founded WordPress, so fuck everyone else.

Josh: Exactly. And so then everyone had swarmed— like, once it had all finished, he was sort of like, you know, this geek celebrity. And so everyone swarmed him after, like what happens, right? You know, it's like, you know, post-event drinks. So you've got a bunch of drunk geeks saying, ah mate, what are you What do you think the state of WordPress is? That code you wrote? Oh yeah, like, I appreciate that's open source, but do you think that maybe we could change the PHP to the— anyway, so they're all doing that and I'm just like, fuck, I'm going home. And I emailed him, I found his email address and said, hi Matt, I'm the guy.

Tommy: What's your hotel room number?

Josh: Exactly. No, I said, I'm the guy that bumped into you, uh, on the bridge. Uh, I would love to have you on my podcast. And he didn't get back to me for a couple of days, and then he was in Sydney and he said, ah, hey Josh, so sorry I missed you. I'm sure I'll be back in Melbourne. I'm off to Auckland tomorrow, so I won't be able to do it. And I wrote back to him, said, oh hey Matt, I can meet you in Auckland. And, um, he was like, okay, uh, here's like my assistant's details, like maybe see if you can organise it. And so He said yes, and I ended up booking a flight to Auckland for 2 days' time. So, it was like on a Tuesday and I'd booked it for a Thursday, and it was like an early morning. It was like one of those ones where it's like first thing takeoff and you end up arriving at like 5:30 or 6 in the morning in New Zealand.

Tommy: It's international too, as well.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Like the international flight.

Josh: Yeah. And so, I flew to Auckland. He said, just meet me at the Sofitel.. And, um, and so I, uh, I arrived there. Yeah, exactly. I just hung— I hung at like a McDonald's that was like a few hundred metres away, and then got all of my, um, got all my stuff and went to the Sofitel and said, hey, do you have like a, uh, somewhere where I'd be able to record a podcast? Like, I just need somewhere. Like, the foyer, it seems like a little bit sort of full-on. And they're like, oh, you could use the library area. And so I set up in the library, and the funny thing was it was one of those moments where I was like, I was so proud of myself for, for like my, uh, I remember, um, my parents being like, because I had like fuck all money or whatever, just use my credit card. And it was, um, like $500 for the flight. But I'm like, $500 to spend an hour with the, the founder of WordPress? But I think that the real, the funny, the this was a lesson you expect. In my mind, I was thinking, Matt must really like appreciate that I've come from Melbourne to Auckland, right? I was like, it's definitely like, he must just be blown away. And then it like became very obvious like midway through the chat that he thought that I lived in Auckland. Because he's like, why would, why would you talk like Auckland? Like surely, yeah, it's like, yeah, well, you know, Auckland. Like, you live here. I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't bring up that I'm, that I've flown into an international flight to be here.

Tommy: I mean, he probably would have really appreciated that.

Josh: He probably would have been like, oh. Or maybe not. Maybe the thing is that this is the thing with, this is like a lesson. This is a classic case of thinking that you're the protagonist in this world, this story. You know, this whole, you know, in the world. It's like Matt's thinking about his other, like, he's just like, this is just another chat. Yeah.

Tommy: But because I reckon he's thinking, okay, I saw him in Melbourne last week, now he's in Auckland. Like, he's a guy that would fly. He's probably done more fucking miles than anyone, like, just flying around everywhere whenever he needs to for work. And so he's probably thinking, like, that's where it's like, no big deal, he must just be back in Auckland. And so you're not thinking about like, yeah, it could have rattled him heaps. And he's like, because I know like even Joe Rogan talks about not having a high view on what he creates. And like, and so when you— when it then would place this pressure on it that, oh my God, what am I have to— I'm gonna have to fucking shift now and deliver something epic because this—

Josh: and that's the whole thing. I didn't want to set that expectation. The thing is, it's like an in and out. Like, think about when we, um when we asked Seth Godin to come on our podcast, I said to him, I'm like, hey, we're going to be in New York, can we do the podcast? And when he said yes, and that's the thing, I was like, oh, TJ, we're going to New York, we've like, we've booked it in. We weren't planning on going to New York. And so it is this, but it's this thing where you can't then say to Seth, oh, we only came to New York because we had your chat.

Tommy: Yeah, I think the storey post it all going well or whatever happens is the kicker. And for the guy that doesn't like to drop into a new cafe that has a new owner, like, that's pretty fucking full on what you did. Yeah. For all of that.

Josh: But that's the overseas, like, there's a— If I'm overseas, I'm okay. Yeah, yeah. Definitely all the—

Tommy: Off Australian land, it's all good.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: No, I love that story. I want to listen to it. Now, can we put the episode in the show notes somehow? Is there a way that we can access that audio?

Josh: Yeah, wonder how we could do it. We could even put it in this feed or something. Maybe we could do some sort of bonus series of throwing back to Josh speaking. I wonder what the sort of shit they would say.

Tommy: I love— yeah, knowing that story, I— because I knew that you'd interviewed him, I knew that story, but I didn't know the order of you bumping into him in Melbourne and then it all like it all happening after the fact. Yeah, yeah, that's so good.

Josh: It was just a— it was a weird experience. But there's heaps of that, like when you put yourself out there, yeah, there are so many of those, those weird things. But it has happened when I've tried, like filming at Conan O'Brien. Very quickly, one storey which I think I was telling you, um, a few weeks ago, but, um, this is a storey that never really, um it, uh, I never got to really celebrate it because it was sort of a bit hush-hush. But we, um, when I was working at Envato, uh, we, we were doing these customer storey videos. And a guy at Conan, the Conan O'Brien Show, used Envato for all of his motion graphics. And, um, he, he— I contacted him, said, could we do it? Could we do a video? Or Nathan, the producer, did actually. And, um, he's like, yeah, cool, yeah, yeah, you can do it. You just can't film any of the, um, the Conan logos and all that sort of thing. Anyway, we go to, uh, Burbank or wherever it was in, uh, Warner Brothers Studios, recorded, did it all, edited it, sent it to him. He said, I'm just going to get approval. And then he's like, ah, hey guys, um, we can't use any of that, like I got in a bunch of trouble. But it was just like this interesting thing where we got like, we're filming on the set of Conan getting like all of this behind-the-scenes access. I've got all this footage, I can never, never do anything with it.

Tommy: That's— I mean, that's life, right? The story, the storey's better, is the best bit about it. Yeah, I imagine you wouldn't have the same feeling to it if you just— you shot it, released it, it moves on. Yeah, like the friction that, that happened ends up being just this part, uh, real part of the storey that amplifies the time that you had there. So your memory about it is like more precious than what the final product ended up becoming based on the way it played out.

Josh: Do you have any stories, uh, where you don't have any social media proof of it? Like, what's the— what's one of the most exciting or cool things to happen that you don't have a photo of?

Tommy: Yeah, true. I mean, there's I'm a dirty little, dirty little, you know, son of a gun for getting, getting my moment and capturing it. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, ah, yeah, now I've documented everything going to party, invited to parties, behind the scenes at places. But like, you know, things like flying up to Sydney for— people don't really like the same thing. I've done that plenty of times. Like, I'm in Sydney for a meeting.

Josh: Yeah. But what about like moments of being in a room with someone or doing something and being like, this is crazy, like this is so weird.

Tommy: Oh yeah, that guy from, you know, Butterfly Song, come on, my lady, come on, my lady. So, I mean, he was on Celebrity Rehab after he sort of, you know, hit his fame. And so, I was at a nightclub once and He ended up giving me a lift home, and I was with this— partying with his mate who was supposedly some sort of, you know, badass gangster of LA. But he fucking loves me. He's just like, mate, fucking hugging me non-stop. And we just really bonded. And we'll hang out with that guy, and they were best friends. But I was like, I got a lift home with them. I was like, this is fucking bizarre. I used to listen to this guy's music when I was in grade 6, and now I'm in— like I always just think back to the time, like imagine if you knew, imagine if someone said in the time, it's not a big thing, but I don't have any footage. I've got a photo of me and the guys, but I don't have like the car ride and it was all just fucking bizarre. All bizarre.

Josh: Is that the same night that you were at Drake from Drake and Josh?

Tommy: Oh, that was another night. Went back to his house and he gave us a private performance. You know, singing. Oh, I actually filmed it, so I've got footage of that.

Josh: Actually, talk about the private thing. I remember when I was working at the radio station, Matchbox Twenty were doing a complete run-through at Rod Laver Arena, like with everything, with all their cameras and all that sort of thing. And they invited— it was like 10 people, and so Bree and I got to go And so we're in this arena with 10 other people watching Matchbox 20 doing like the full-blown performance. Like, what's his name? Rob Thomas. Rob Thomas, like just like singing to like coming down. Like it was great fun.

Tommy: Yeah, that's fucking great. That's life. That's living, baby.

Josh: And now the best thing to happen is just, you know, Being alive.

Tommy: Yeah, just finding $50 in the ground, finding a wallet, earning $50, you know, from fucking from Hollywood to, you know, Bulleen, making money.

Josh: That actually should be your, um, your Instagram, from Hollywood to Bulleen. All right, it's a daily talk show. If you enjoy the show, please share it on Instagram, give, uh, you know, do it, do a story, and then we can say thank you. Just tag us up. Uh, Apple Podcast reviews also appreciated. Otherwise, enjoy your Thursday and we'll see tomorrow, guys. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.