Intention Setting

Josh: The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 866.

Josh: Happy Monday, Gronks. What's happening? What's going on? How are we?

Tommy: First day of Bodhi not being in the building.

Josh: Yeah, I thought you were gonna say first day of the JobKeeper 2.0, but yeah, is it really? It is. Oh great. Yep, yep, first day, first day of both. It's been an emotional roller coaster. For JobKeeper 2.0 and also Bodhi's daycare. No, no, he's just got back probably 5 minutes ago, 9 minutes ago.

Tommy: And don't get too bogged down.

Josh: Actually, no, no. If I'm getting specific, it was 11 minutes ago. No, it was almost 18 minutes ago.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: Anyway, he got back, but he, I wanted to sort of pace it this morning. I didn't want to, it's, you know, it's a big move for a little bubba who's been at home and got in a habit of, you know, waking up, going to the coffee shop. Watching telly, you know, there's a lot that he had to break. And today we— I sort of weaned him off it. We went to the coffee shop, he got his babyccino, he came home, watched some Bluey and had some Weet-Bix. And then, you know, throughout that whole time it went from, I don't want to go to daycare, no, crying, to like in the car, I can't wait to go to daycare, I can't wait. And so by the end of it, we just started pumping him up, mate, it's going to be a good day. It's a great— like, you're gonna have so much fun. And by the time we got to the front door, he spotted a mate of his and lost it. Loved it, like, in a good way. Just, just— and then just loving it, just jumping up and down, and went straight in without a worry. And so it's, you know, it's— he, uh, it's, it's a bit like most things in life, you sort of can sort of overthink them before it, and then you get there, you're like Fuck yeah. This is great. This is awesome.

Tommy: Did he have it? Does he take a backpack with him or something?

Josh: He's got a backpack. They encouraged the kids to take a soft toy. So, he took Foxy, this little stuffed fox.

Tommy: Do they not normally do that? Do they normally?

Josh: No, they like to keep toys at home.

Tommy: No ooshies allowed, I'm guessing. Absolutely not. Because could you imagine some heads getting kicked in stealing ooshies and stuff? Ooshies. Yeah.

Josh: So, anyway, it's— we set him up for a good week, but I thought we could, uh, what's the intention for this week? In, in my meditation app, they, at the start of a practice, sometimes we, we, you know, you set the intention. You just choose what it could be for that session. What do you want out of it? What, you know, what, what are your, what's your feelings? Yeah, so we could do it.

Tommy: What is that? What was it for you? Yeah, what was, what's, uh, what did you do in that specific meditation?

Josh: And then what is I haven't done— that's not this morning.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: But I thought in terms of getting it done, we could do a show intention for the week. Last week, a lot of takedowns of the industry people.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: A lot of—

Tommy: is this your way of reining it in? You don't want the same thing to happen?

Josh: No, no, no. I need it. If we are intending to take down some other big corporations, let's do it. Let's have the intention of doing it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: So it just doesn't—

Tommy: I don't want to force it. I don't know if I've got anything.

Josh: But you can also have the intention of not taking down, and then if it happens, it happens, you know. And so, um, you know, what is— what's your intention for this?

Tommy: Intention? Uh, no, there's a focus on rituals. So I got one of my index cards.

Josh: Awesome.

Tommy: I put the date on the top, and then I wrote, before work, uh, before work walk, there's a square there. A midday walk, there's a square there. And after work walk, and there's a square there. And so, went for a walk this morning with Bri for an hour.

Josh: Nice.

Tommy: Did that, put it up on the index card and did a little cross. So, I've done my before work walk.

Josh: That's great.

Tommy: And so, that's, I guess, the intention is October, 500,000 steps. Wanna move more, get all that happening. Just simplifying, not being crazy on your Uber Eats and things like that.

Josh: I like that.

Tommy: That's my intention.

Josh: So, it becomes more mindful of what you're putting in.

Tommy: It was conscious consumption, I think like a year and a, what was that my, 2 years ago I had that as my sort of word of the year.

Josh: That was the last time we did it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that that's— yeah, I, um, I already feel better. I've done, you know, 5,500 steps. Yes, which is good. And so if I do one of them in the morning, one of them at midday, one at the end of the day, I'll hit my 16,000 steps required to hit my 500,000 per day.

Josh: Per day. Oh great.

Tommy: So what does an hour get you roughly with your So, an hour will get you around 5.5 thou.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. Are we able to— Are we allowed to— It doesn't. Are we allowed to do more than 2 hours now in Melbourne?

Josh: I don't think so.

Tommy: Alright.

Josh: So, who's saying that those last 2—

Tommy: Yeah, who's going to—

Josh: They're a half-hour walk each.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I mean, that's what you can do. It's, um, does not— does Dan Andrews not know that we have a Step Challenge coming up?

Tommy: Exactly.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I mean, that's— you would see that in a newspaper, like, uh, man's fined $1,600 for Step Challenge, ended up in Sydney at the border. Just—

Josh: no, no, there'd be some sort of pun around the, um, young, you know, Forrest Gump. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Couldn't stop running, couldn't stop walking.

Tommy: Anyway, what's your intention?

Josh: Um, thanks for asking. I think, um, I mean, it's— yeah, it's— I was going to say routine, but then that's yours. But it is definitely, uh, establishing the routine that is, uh, not including Bodhi, you know, the routine in during the day. So it's like finding some consistency in, uh, you know, the work that I'm doing and really sort of getting through stuff. I think there's probably 2 weeks. So yesterday there was announcements that the restrictions are continuing for another 2 weeks before there's another conversation about it, which, um, I feel like that's a good amount of time to— I mean, it's, it's like he's done it all for me. Bodhi's gone back to daycare. I can finally find a routine for 2 weeks before we start really getting back into normal working— not normal, but, you know, a new work environment, whether it be at the office here or just, you know, out actually on shoots and stuff. So I feel like there's two— next two weeks are really sort of getting ducks in a row and, um, getting some consistency.

Tommy: So what are your consistencies for this week? What are you looking at?

Josh: Um, systems that we're working on The stuff that we're—

Tommy: Yeah. So, you're going to put it down like, so that sort of index card thing of being like non-negotiables, very basic. Have you got a sense of what those very basic things could be?

Josh: Yeah, it's definitely exercise as well. Just take your card, put it there too. Not the 3 outings a day, but definitely Let me just—

Tommy: I mean, so what time of day? What time of day? What are you thinking?

Josh: Uh, yeah, I mean, this is what I'm working out this week because this is the thing, right?

Tommy: This is the, um, because this is advice to myself.

Josh: There's the intention about it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, there's the intention of I'm gonna do this thing, right? And then it's like, so my classic one is it's like intention of uh, you know, eating healthier or whatever. But if there's like pizza in the fridge and then we also have the value of like we don't want to chuck out the leftovers, you're sort of a bit fucked from an intention perspective if you're like, okay, what, am I having this pizza, am I not having this pizza? Like, so for me, I'm just like, and this is specifically what I like to do, just I don't want there to be any question around these specific things. Like, it is that sort of all-in All out.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, that's where the rules, right? It's like you could see the morning, midday, afternoon as rules. I just have to do that. And so that's where the rule of I don't— I'm not eating shit during the week, or I'm— yeah, there's a— you're setting something in stone, which means that even though you have a thing of I don't like throwing out leftovers, but it's like then you can't have pizza. Because it's in the fridge. Yeah. And so this week, yeah, I— to be honest, it is establishing exactly what you're saying, um, and with the freedom of Bodhi not being here. So it's something around exercise, food routine there, but also the consistency in work. And so it's those systems, um, being conscious with the time that I'm spending doing things. So it's, um, yeah, I'm just pumped for the week. Pumped for the week.

Tommy: Do you think that the— because I'm always curious around, because I know you say once it gets to this stage it's going to be a lot easier. Waking up this morning, did you feel lighter? Did you, like, with Bodhi going to daycare, do you feel, feel that?

Josh: Oh, definitely. Yeah, yeah, because you, you you're moving towards the freedom. It's like there is something— it's very hard to explain. Like, you know, it's like you're triggered by me sometimes. It's like a kid is so triggering, like, because they, they can't help it. They don't— can't— they're not emotional— emotionally intelligent enough to understand that someone might be doing something. Like, there's just so much missing And then so it's like you see where it just will constantly be a frustration, like, and which means you have to change because the kid can't change to some degree, you know. Like, you can set—

Tommy: what's an example of that?

Josh: So you could easily be annoyed by a child interrupting you while you have stuff to do, but it's only until like— and so then your mood would just be completely thrown off, which could shift theirs. And so then it's about how you are reacting to them annoying you. So if you shift that, which is a bit more kind, or it's like, no, I doubt— like, that can have a complete change in the situation, the outcome, just by the way you're responding.

Tommy: So you're responding in that way. One of the things, the nuances I think is interesting, is like doing that to one per— Like, are you doing that across the whole spectrum of your life? Right. So, I think that there's those cases where it's like, "Oh, I'm really patient at work and I listen and all that sort of thing. But with my partner, I'm like very short when it comes to setting something up or whatever it is." Yeah. Because I even think about the energy that even, even if you are aware, there's an energy that's going to come from you based on what, you know, if it's hard because it's like there's a suppression element to it, or there's a shifting of, uh, you know, not losing your cool and all that sort of thing. But I wonder what the difference between is suppressing, so not responding to how you feel, and the actual evolution, or actually shifting it where it doesn't— where you're not having that internal response. Does that make sense?

Josh: Oh, 100%. I think, um, for a child, yeah, that— I mean, that's what we're trying. The ultimate win is in an emotional state. You can— I've said this to you before— you can sit back from your emotions so they're not taking you, they're not controlling you, but you're acknowledging them. And, and you can act slightly more rational from them. So you're slightly disconnected, not in a bad way, but you're just like, you're seeing it as energy, their patterns of energy in the body. And so then the— this is mindfulness, right? It's like having a focus on something, whether it's the breath or the state of anxiety and you're seeing it as energy. And so these are— this is a very conscious way of thinking, which is very hard when you're pulled in emotionally, like when something has triggered you. I feel it too. It's like when I'm in the middle of my fire, it's like fucking hard to have perspective on the fire and sit by it and watch it and be like, oh, there it is, this is nice, you know.

Tommy: There you go.

Josh: So it's very tough. And so that's where the children thing is just constantly challenging that, constantly challenging that. And so the, the succumbing or the like accepting of a situation with a child in the middle of it can be that letting go and just being, uh, you know, like you're saying. So it's like not suppressing, but there's a, there's a difference between Suppressing, getting through something, or actually succumb— not succumbing, but surrendering and shifting your state based on that acknowledgement of, okay, this is what it is.

Tommy: And so I think— and so what I wonder is, it's like, because what you and I have found, and I think in, um, the Screenplay Sunday episode and all that, so I think it's sort of—

Josh: we were talking about episode 2, you should—

Tommy: one of the best, uh, no, the Sunday, like the daily talk show where we sort of deconstructed it. So part of it is I am triggered by your emotional state. So when you're— when you aren't feeling good, whether you're aware— like, you're aware of it, you know that you're not feeling good, but there are shifts in— like, like everyone, if you're not feeling good, you're naturally going to do certain things that you wouldn't normally do. And so then what happens is you're different to what you normally are, and then it becomes— so it becomes this flow-on effect where it's like you're triggered by Bodhi, so then you, uh, you're trying as best you can to deal with it, but you are providing a different, uh, personality or a different, you know, sort of energy into the work environment. And then there's the next layer of empathy. It's like how you and I work together. And so I wonder, because it's not like, okay, if it's not just like, okay darling, like, you know, it's still in you. Like, even when you do all that sort of stuff, there is still an energy that is holding in your body that, that is then translating into the conversations that you have, right?

Josh: Yeah, but I think there's also— I don't know, they're not related, the two things. I don't necessarily think that that you're connecting there. But I think I'm— the emotional response to a child, like, if you were to buy into every emotional response from a child based on their feelings—

Tommy: yeah, so what does buying in mean?

Josh: Buying in, it could be taking on their emotional state and having it affect yours directly. And so, um, it could be, you know, their sad or they're frustrated.

Tommy: So you're talking about mirroring whatever their emotional state is, but what I'm saying is it's like if Bodhi's not— if Bodhi's being difficult and then you are in that moment feeling in control, there is an element that then, just because you're having to think about something else, you— that, that ego depletion, that, like, that willpower is being tested over there. You don't necessarily have that same willpower for the other things in, in your life.

Josh: Oh, I mean, of course everyone's got their, their tank, and, and it's, yeah, definitely zapped as a parent from a child. And so, yeah, because you're constantly having to— it's an emotional roller coaster. So Yeah, I mean, it's— this is the, uh, test to see if not having a child at home is, is a help. Well, it— like we said last week, it's like, it is like everything for the first little while, and then after a little while, the normality of your situation kicks in, and then you're thinking about some other situation. But that's, you know, life, there's constantly time where you're thinking about, well, when I have all this time. But it's, it's a bit of an illusion to some degree.

Tommy: How are you feeling at the moment?

Josh: I'm good. Yeah, had 2 coffees, pretty fucking perked up, to be honest. Ready for a fight.

Tommy: Physically, do you think that— do you think there's an element— not emotional, because like, I think that one of the, the challenges that you and I have is what we, we have different ways of communicating. Like, I think that probably something that I've learned is my default is communicate, like is talking. Not necessarily— some of it could be deemed reactive. So it's like, how am I feeling right now? And then even through a filter system saying, hey, I'm better off getting this out. Whereas I think potentially what I've recognised with you is you look at more sort of like an aspirational, an emotional state. So what is the emotional state that I want to be in? So for instance, using that example with Bodhi, it's like, this week is going to be great. It's going like—

Josh: and potentially intention setting, right? That's what an intention is. I intend for this to be a certain way, and there's a power in that. It's like—

Tommy: and so definitely, I agree. So there's definitely, from an intention perspective, is there something in when you are setting attention that could be not destructive, but just not thinking about your specific emotional state where it's like, if you're actually from a feeling perspective, uh, I, yeah, I totally know what you mean.

Josh: But I think so if you're actually feeling like shit and you're just— it's like the positive affirmations. If you're feeling like it. So, but I don't think you— I think you can do both. I think you can have positive affirmations but also be in a really negative state. You can have positive intentions about, you know, from a place of not being where you want to be. And so it's not about ignoring them. And so that's where I'm like, there's nothing in me that thinks— I also very much take into perspective the landscape. Like, I think about, you know, that— like, I like— like, I, I look at the last 6 months, or I look at where— how far we've come, or where we are now, and what the future— like, I take into perspective, I take into my thinking all of those elements to under— to then, um, like, you know, rationalise the intention that I am setting. But I think for some people, if you like, they, they probably default is the negativity or the, the aversion to setting something that is an intention of positivity because their situation is so negative. But that's the, the whole purpose of intention setting is a state that you may not be in right now. And so I'm not even saying a happy state for my week. It's like an intention to really find that routine and, and find a bit more stability in the work environment. And then, you know, the intention can be— this is it over in the parenting side— is like the intention to be really focused with Bodhi when I do have time with him. So if I am splitting the time apart now, it's like weekends should be very focused on him and the family, and the work day can be focused on the building and the— and, and what we have. And so this is the thing, everyone's been fucking holding on in some respect. And so there's a— there's still an element where everyone's still holding on based on the financial situation of Australia, of the— and then emotional situation. And so yeah, there's a This is a thing. Look at all the habits we've broken. Most of us have broken some fucking habit— food, uh, friends, you know, all of it. Like, which is so hard because how hard is building a new habit? It's tough.

Tommy: Yeah. And so when you, when you see a friend, like if you, uh, have a mate that's in that sort of zone where it's like potentially not even aware of an emotional state. But say, using the example where it's like, so what I'm trying to decipher is when I'm reading the room or I'm reading how someone's feeling, how much of that am I reading versus just projecting my own emotional state to them, right? And so that's like the tricky bit where it's like, so potentially So, so say, uh, when you and I are interacting, there's moments where I'm like, I don't know if Tommy's okay here, or— And so that you might tell me something, you might say, no, I'm fine, or no, I'm actually really good. But then something feels uneasy because I'm like, okay, it doesn't seem that way, or it feels different. Am I projecting And then so I do that self-reflection. You say, okay, am I feeling okay? Like, am I putting something out into the ether that's not there? Am I unnecessarily, you know, putting this energy out there? But I feel like sometimes what we have uncovered is it's just— sometimes it would be a projection, but sometimes it's, it's a bit where it's like, uh these emotions, and this isn't just for you, just for people in general, for me as well, you've pushed it down far enough that you are like, there's actually nothing, there's no reason to address this stuff now because I just need to get shit done.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, there are times when that is a strategy that does work. There's definitely times that that is a strategy that doesn't. And so, yeah, I mean, we're all making real-time choices.

Tommy: And so, Dax Shepard, did you hear about this from Armchair Expert?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So he had his relapse after, you know, 16 years, you know, on, what was it, oxy or whatever, on opioid or whatever it's called. Opioid? Opioid? Like heroin? Is that what heroin— like it's a derivative? It's a synthetic. Yeah. Yeah. So, But he— I definitely recommend people go listen to the latest episode of Armchair Expert where he does sort of— It's like a personal update and he does this sort of 40-minute— Have you had a listen?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so, it's funny because— So, the people around him felt and knew that something was wrong. But then you can see how— And this is talking about like an extra layer, which is like his on drugs and he's high. And so, but he— people were seeing things and saying, hey, like, how do you approach this thing? And so I wonder what the connection is, even taking that out, just emotional state. So how honest are we all about the emotional state that we're in? How much trust do we have in the people around us that we can be honest and say, this is how I'm feeling, or this is— or, but it feels like there's a piece of work that needs to happen internally where we need to understand our own emotional state, how we're feeling. Um, what did you take from his, uh, his episode?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting when you think about addiction and you classically go to illicit drugs, but then you see someone that struggles with prescription medication addiction and it's so real. Like, in my mind, it's like almost like, you know, you get given these things by a doctor, especially if they're under a prescription. But how strong the addiction is, and then all the, the how it sort of makes someone act so out of alignment with who they would think they are or want to be. And so for him, it's the lying, it's the little lies, it's the being at a sobriety party celebrating his sobriety and he's high with the cat. Like, dude, like, there's no human that would feel good in that situation. You'd feel high, so it's actually suppressing those— the real guilt and the high-level emotion that you'd feel when you're sober. But it's like, fuck, man. And, and so, yeah, so he was speaking about like gaslighting, right?

Tommy: So like this idea that, uh, his, uh, his friend and, you know, partner, like, he's— they're thinking a certain thing and he's like, you know, playing it cool and being like, oh no, it's all cool, I'm just like, I'm fine, I'm taking, taking it as I need to. And it got me thinking around emotion, like gaslighting at an emotional sense, where it's like, imagine, you know, you sort of see it in movies and you see it in life as well. It's like the, the partners, and it's like the, the grumpy guy or the whatever it is And it's the— I feel like this is quite a, like, a trope or a cliché within sort of, um, uh, film. You'd see it where it's like, yeah, the guy's like, oh, I'm fine, like, and sort of like almost like making out like the chick to be a bit crazy, like, yeah, nothing is wrong, like, you are doing this right now, but actually everything's fine. And so there's a level of like gaslighting in that, which is someone feeling the emotional state that you're in, and then you, by saying, oh, everything's fine, you're actually like fucking up with their system and being able to read what's happening or to be able to provide help. Um, and so it just made me think about emotional honesty and, and how much benefit there is in actually telling people how you're feeling.

Josh: You know, these guys, you ask how I am, couldn't be better. Yeah, just, it's just that stock standard. They'll just insert stock standard positive response. Yeah, flying, mate.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Now that's some toxic masculinity shit right there, isn't it? Just, yeah, how you going, mate? Fucking top of the world.

Tommy: But there is that, right? Like, that is like, that is a something that actually happens.

Josh: Definitely. I, yeah, I know. Mate, fly— yeah, it's usually tradies. Yeah, yeah, I can— 25 Dunlops, Dunhills in, and a few Big M's. Just—

Tommy: but there's also like, don't you think that there's a, um, there's an element of like— so I think about, uh, our relationship over the last 3 years and, and, and sort of when you had at the beginning when you're stressed or whatever it sort of like was this uncovering thing, right? Where it's like, I think that my whole thing was I go too full-on in the big conversations too quickly. It's like, what do you want? What can we do? Trying to fix these things, like trying to— whatever emotional state I'm reading someone to be in, I'm like, what can I do to help?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which can be a level of like anxiety on that side because it's like, it is the fixing It's the, I want you to feel a different, I want you to feel better because you can, you care. And then that can be like a need on your side. And so there's a, this, yeah, it is like—

Tommy: What's a need based on an inter— Like, so for instance, if you're in a relationship and your partner's depressed, you want to do everything you can do to try and help, like both from a sense of like you want your loved one to feel better, but also it can be—

Josh: you want to feel better.

Tommy: Yeah, it can be a drag.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. But I think the— yeah, I mean, that is so true.

Tommy: And then the other fine line of like, you're projecting your own issues as well.

Josh: Yeah. And you're actually a better friend for not completely being ripped in— if your intention is to help your friend— being ripped into the— into their emotion that throws you off and you can't be of service, if that's your intention. And so there is that.

Tommy: So what does that look like?

Josh: So it's like someone who is in a frump, whether they say it or not, and then you're in a frump because they're in a frump, isn't positive for the situation. But it's very hard because we're talking about emotions, and sometimes it can just pull you in, or you can just be, you know. So you've outlined multiple scenarios. It could be projecting your own stuff, it could be you've just been pulled into it. It could be, you know. And so for everybody sitting back or being able to have the ability to acknowledge— and, and yeah, so there's a level of honesty that could be there. So acknowledging is honesty, whether it's to yourself or to somebody else. It's like the telling the truth about how you feel.

Tommy: And so then what's the emotional language then? So for instance, I don't know, I don't think there is one way.

Josh: I think We're talking about how do you like talking?

Tommy: How do you like being communicated to?

Josh: In what— so this is the thing, there's so many situations. It's like, I know there's a benefit in talking your truth or how you feel in a moment. I know that in some situations talking your truth isn't going to necessarily bring it forward because the truth may be, I've just got a lot on, I'm stressed, I don't really need to say much right now.

Tommy: And so when does— because you see that in like relationships, right? You hear people say, it's like, it's like, why did they put up with that asshole or that person for, you know, 15 years being like this or whatever? And it's like this not wanting to rock the boat, not wanting to—

Josh: Yeah, I mean, but that's a top-level example.

Tommy: So when do you do it? So what I'm trying— so I feel like I'm the extreme end where I'm like, As soon as I see someone not feeling great, it's like you pick up with it with, uh, Sev's— like, when, like, on a Friday if we're doing a weekend banter or whatever and I'm like sensing that he's not feeling great, I'll straight away be like, how you feeling? What's going on? What are you thinking about? Like, I— and like, you've definitely identified that that's a thing that I do, um, and hopefully Through that process, it can be like, from an empathy perspective, like, you know, chatting to him on Friday, he's like feeling a little bit burnt out. It's like, well, well, just fucking have the weekend, just enjoy it.

Josh: And he's like, I've just got to do— don't worry.

Tommy: Yeah, well, no, he was like, I've still got snippets to do for the show. It's like, okay, well, like, don't do it. Like, it'd be better off you not doing that, us missing a Saturday and Sunday. Oh yeah. And you feeling better on Monday. And so the thing is that I understand there's a fixing involved, but I can hopefully, like we all can.

Josh: I think that's probably like, because I don't know the answer, because we're talking about emotional humans right now, and I don't think you necessarily know the answer of like when you're feeling like shit, when you want to talk about this. It could be after you've gone for a walk or cooled right down and you're totally out of it, totally out of that area. But, but, and so what you're saying is you sense Seb's and go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, oi, are you all right? What's going on? What's going on? Was it like—

Tommy: it's just— you understand, but it's not a hound, it's a thing where it's like you understand. Like, so he's— I think that him and I are very similar in regards that, like, he's very quick to get to that emotional state as soon as he's not feeling good. I think that he's pretty good at being like I'm feeling this certain way, right? Like, pretty, pretty quick from— it's normally the day of him not feeling good, he's already doing something about it. Whereas I think, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, from our perspective, you and I, I think like using the example of— I could even say, oh, you know, what's, what's your plan for your week? Or what are you doing? Like, I know that there's a, there's an element where I'm triggered where, you know, like a year ago would have our like daily whips where it's like, what's on? Like, what are you— what have you got? You know, what's happening? And it's— there's an element where there's a clarity that I'm seeking where it's like, okay, like, how—

Josh: this— so the clarity is alleviating some level of stress in you. And so like And so, so is that a self—

Tommy: can you say, can I— is it— how much can you say to someone, your emotional state, how you're coming to conversations and all that sort of thing is affecting me? How can we— I know that you're not normally— I know that you're not normally like this. I think, how can we, how can we work towards— and so what, but then from the next step perspective, because it feels like quite— because there is that, there is that element where it's like, I'm being made— like, I feel a certain way based on your emotional state. There is that, but there's the other empathetic bit, which is like, I actually just want you to feel better just because you're a mate. Like, it's not— like, it's got nothing— I don't think we have even—

Josh: it's like, I think you've— we've outlined the complexity of these things. Just in that. But I think the, the having the answers straight away isn't for— like, isn't for everybody, isn't— doesn't work for everybody in the moment. And so, like, you know, um, I mean, this is why every day I practise meditation, is like, I'm— you're, you're taking a moment to sort of fucking pull out the cord from being completely driven by your emotional state, whether you think you're being sort of mindful in the moment, but you're still in the moment, you're still having to navigate the moment. And so that time of being not needing to engage, like, it's a time to drop away from your problems. Don't— you don't need to pick them up right now. You've got the rest of the fucking day to worry about everything else if that's what you're going to do, or that's what's happening. And so yeah, I mean, but what you said then about just having that top-level conversation is a lot different to feeling someone's emotional state and coming at them to find like, let's sort it out, what is it like? So you, you kind of were asking of a question like, hey, I'm sensing— like, that's a different That's a highly unemotional approach to it, I feel.

Tommy: Yeah. And so I feel like it's the more empathetic— That's pretty powerful. Like, I think—

Josh: Pretty powerful to be able to do that though, because what you're acknowledging is like, oh, there's—

Tommy: yeah, we're all—

Josh: everyone is being triggered in some way, right?

Tommy: And so then how do you do— how do you communicate? Because I think that I'm like super aware of it or thinking about it because I love— like, I think I obsess and think about culture a lot, like in, in recent— in the sense of team culture, friendship culture. Like, I've always thought a lot about what the actions we do or the things we say or our emotional state and what it means for the rest of the team. Like, you can see how one person's emotional state within a team complete— can completely change a whole team dynamic. And so there's this, there's this thing, whereas if you feel like you're the arbiter to a culture or sort of team dynamic or morale, all of a sudden everyone's single emotional state feels like in, in some regards it rests on your shoulders because you know that Even though it's not about feeling great all the time, like you don't need to feel great all the time, but how we all interact and the expectations and how we know what to expect from an individual at any one time. Like all of that sort of stuff.

Josh: So, I think about a warm, like someone who's a leader that's warm, that would be, that just because there's someone in a team that doesn't feel great, doesn't bring the whole team down because there's— it's led from the top. Like, culture is from the top, isn't it? Like, at some degree it is.

Tommy: And so you are on the— so you— there is an element where, and this is like what we're talking about with the, the Screenplay Sunday stuff, because you are a leader within the business as well, even though I, I am— both of our emotional state— there's that saying where it's like with leaders a whisper is a shout. And so whatever your emotional state is will be amplified throughout the entire business. Um, and so to that point, does that then change potentially how leaders within a business should approach— like, so that warmth, working out that sort of thing, what does that then do in regards to your perception of what your emotional state should be, or how to sort of, uh, not even should be, it sounds formal, but yeah, but it's how you can deal with it.

Josh: The conversation the other week of like, um, having leaders tell you how they feel. And so this is where I don't have the answer, you know. I think there's probably different ways of coming at it. So, and different people, like different leaders would do different things about would they be up for telling their team that they feel like shit today? Or would they, you know, so there's that conversation that we went into last week, which is interesting because I don't think we both have— we don't think we have an answer that's right.

Tommy: Or I think my, like, my answer, like, I'm pretty sure on, uh, even though that it's not necessarily— it's not as formal as I'm gonna have a meeting and announce to a team that I'm feeling a certain way, or whatever it is. I feel that I have individual conversations with the team that potentially give insight into how I'm feeling, thinking, how it's all working.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're all flawed, we're all fucking—

Tommy: it's not even about flawed. Like, I think that it's just what am I seeking? It's like, it's the, it's the language to be able to communicate. And so I can definitely—

Josh: the flawed bit is that you, uh, start talking to this thing that would solve it. It's so— the flawed thing is we're humans that are going to make mistakes in this area constantly based on it being a fucking complex thing to navigate as individuals. So the leader that is warm will have times that he's a is a mess and it's all too much. And so, but that, like, I think the conversation, like you said, is the, is, is a key to at least sort of bringing stuff to the table. But then it's like, how? Yeah, so you could constantly, you could go around in circles in under trying to work out what ways work best.

Tommy: But isn't there like a language that then becomes like culture around how you communicate, how you're feeling, to address it quickly. Like, we all know those businesses where it's like very passive, it's very like passive-aggressive, and it's like the shitty emails or the, you know, the CCing on stuff, or it's like— and so there's another version. So we can see what happens when those things are mismanaged, and I'm sure that there's many businesses right now where there's staff that are feeling, uh, not great. They feel, you know, with everything that's happening, uh, you know, with lockdowns. And so then what do you do? What is— what can you do to, to provide the best support network for a team in that scenario?

Josh: What support for your team. I think the—

Tommy: like, what do you need now? Like, so for instance, so like what I'm— so what I'm gauging, like if I, if I like just spew out exactly how, uh, how I'm feeling, I think— oh my God, no, I think, I think that that's not— I'm, I'm— I know, I'm like, I'm vibing that. For instance, so like that being unclear, when you're happy you're very clear on, I'm going to be doing a workout at this time, I'm going to be doing this thing this time.

Josh: I don't think that's true though. I don't think that's true. And so you think you're talking about '97 right now? No, I think that's not me. Like, that is not me. It's— I don't like the clarity for me doesn't come in knowing that I have the time, like a workout. It's like getting a fucking workout in is the win. It doesn't matter when. For me. Like, I— but I'm not the— yeah, that's not me.

Tommy: And so how do you— so if the— but if you, if you know that you're, uh, and so this comes down to, I guess, like a prioritisation or time management perspective. If it's not in the calendar, when does it happen?

Josh: This is the habit, right? Like, I've been training for 15 years sometimes very specific, and I'd get it done when I had to that day. It's like my meditation, I'll do it in the day, but I won't miss the day.

Tommy: And so I don't, I don't feel for me necessarily like when you have a lot on, when you know that you've got to put a full day's work in, look after Bodhi, like, doesn't it just get lost if it's in— if you don't have the intention of I'm going to do it at this time? If it's just fitting, sometimes I need the intention to do it.

Josh: I either need the rule to like, I'm not not doing it, like the 2-day thing, or, you know, like I just need that in my mind. I don't— I hate— I don't let myself down in those areas when I've committed like that. It's like the drinking thing for me. I can't— it's too much of a letdown for myself if I don't— if I do drink.

Tommy: And so do you have a sense of that? Because like, I agree, definitely.

Josh: I just— I, I don't know if I— I come to this conversation having You know, like thinking this week is great, like I, I, that I can start implementing these things rather than like I'm giving you right now a time.

Tommy: This is when you—

Josh: yeah, yeah, no, I don't need that. Like, I just, it's a fucking— it— I just have done that too many times that I know that's not how it works.

Tommy: And so how does it work, work for you?

Josh: Not that way. It's like I was just saying, the rule, it's about, yeah, deciding what's enough is enough.

Tommy: So potentially Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, like by Thursday you'll come up with a rule. Yeah. And then implement it.

Josh: The experience of having your mind, like the consumed, like this is a relief for me, having some space, which allows me to then be in a good place to make these decisions that you're saying.

Tommy: And so is that part of it? Like I think that that's, I agree. I think that that's probably the missing part where it's like there's an extra layer of communication where I think of it from the communicating of last week. The feeling is that it's like next week's gonna be fucking great because it's gonna be dialled in and all that sort of thing. But the reality, and this is completely fine, is it's like fucking next week's great because I can actually just slowly transition with the idea of the following week I'll have that dialled in thing. Because I think that what it plays out in my mind is last week, it's very much, which I completely understand, of like at capacity, like you're at capacity or whatever with everything that you've got to deal with. And so next week is going to be a bunch different. And so when I rock up to a Monday, I'm like, from my perspective, I've almost been waiting out for that thing. So I'm like, I'm waiting for that.

Josh: That's a lack of understanding of my situation and maybe not listening to that.

Tommy: It's not a— it's not like— what's a lack of understanding based on what's being communicated to me from you. So like, the thing is, it's—

Josh: but that's also— it's a conceived idea based on how you would approach it, right? And so, um, having no place to think it, like, and then the weekend, it's like, when in that time, if you think about it, does Does someone have time outside of getting the stuff they need to done to plot or plan in the way you're articulating?

Tommy: I think that this is probably, and this is the whole thing, this is where, this is my flawed bit, is it's like I assume that everyone will do or should do the way that I'm doing it, which is not the case. And so for me, this is like, this is insight into how I'm thinking about it, but my perspective on it would be, at the Monday, the first day, there's an hour conversation where it's like you and I, like where you book it in and say, hey, uh, this— we're going to, you know, like I'm saying to have more time and all that sort of thing. What, like, what have I missed? Or what do we need to— like, what is— what's this new intention that, you know, that we can all do as a team with this new normal that I'm creating? Or I'm thinking about this or that. And so there's, I don't know whether going off now internally and working on by yourself on coming up with what your version of your day or whatever looks like.

Josh: But why does it have to be so grandiose? Like that's the thing too, is like, it's also the ship's going, the ship is sailing.. And I just now have time to be a better sailor.

Tommy: And so, you know, like, if you are being a better sailor, but if you're being a better sailor, don't you think that— so I think that you're necessarily talking all hands on deck about me.

Josh: It's like, how can I show up better? How can all these interactions and things that we've got going on, how can I be able to be more present? Be more focused, be more, um, be able to get through things more. Like, that's where I don't know if it needs that. There's a difference between, hey, I haven't been able to be a part of the business for the last 6 months and, or 6 weeks, and I now need that. But it's like, I have been, and then, which is a siloed thing.

Tommy: I think that what I'm talking about here is it's like if you're in a silo of just doing the things that you need to do to get done because that's what you need right now.

Josh: I think everyone just— right, it is that version of this is— that is fucking the last 6 months for most people is how can we do— how can we keep going? How can we make sure we're keeping, keeping on going? And so when I— there's a difference between me telling you personally what I now have the time to be able to give more to versus the coming out grand plan vibe. I think there's—

Tommy: No, it's not. I don't think it's a grand plan vibe. I think that there's probably— I think that it just comes to wanting to make sure that from a team perspective, it's like we're always sort of like, yeah, how do you describe it? It's really just like, I feel like there's a silo— there can be a siloed approach where it's like, you know, I can help you and you can help me and you can help the team and the team can help you. And so, but what that requires is it's not like you rock up, you're not a freelancer anymore just working on your own, right? There's a, there's a team of people. And so being able to, being able to communicate and say, hey, this is Uh, you know, it's, it's about listening to— it's about like asking questions of the team about like— because if you work it out siloed, if you spend the next week or whatever it is siloed working out—

Josh: but I don't think that's because there's no working out to come back strong. It's like everything you just said then is what can play out and is like— is the per— the exactly what I said, which was How can I be a better team player? How can I be, um, a better sailor? It's like, that is all those things you said don't require next week some new grand plan. It is, it requires everything you just said. Questions, how can I help? Like all these things that are gonna happen. But that's where I don't know if it's like, that's where you may think it's missed when I say that today I don't have the cue card, what are they called?

Tommy: Yeah, index card.

Josh: But that's not how, like, I don't see that as win— like, I don't think that's going to win necessarily or lose. It might work, but it's like, it's also having space. It doesn't mean to have space to be siloed, to come back.

Tommy: I'm craving, I'm craving my business partner back to where, like—

Josh: but I think also we don't have that. I think that that is not like in terms of being in a space where we're showing it like we're in person. There is something about the working remote that we need to get our heads around in terms of that communication, meetings, and all of that, which is complex. I think we've done a good job at it so far for how tough it is and, and it being thrusted upon us versus us choosing to do it in terms of, you know, the being shut down at your office and you can't go in for months on end. It's like, that's what it does require. I mean, there's a—

Tommy: what do you think I'm seeking and what are you seeking? Like in the conversation?

Josh: Clarity. Yeah, clarity and, um, structure or, um, uh, understanding where, where it sits, where the things sit. It's like, so that then you can do your things, because I think there's a worry when you don't know what the other people are up to or planning or scheming. And then it's like the, the area is to go, well, if it's not in my way and it's in their way, then how am I cool with that?

Tommy: And what are you seeking then?

Josh: Um, what am I seeking? I'm seeking, I mean, I've, like I said, I've the feeling of like you're about to piss yourself and you're at the, you almost at the toilet. And so that for me, it's like I'm just taking a piss today and I'm feeling good about it. I'm feeling good.

Tommy: So what are you seeking? That like, what are you like if you look at it from the seeking perspective, what you've described with me? It feels like there's a bunch of things from an action perspective that, like, mine's very clear, it feels, in regards to what I'm seeking. Potentially what you're describing is you just want— you just need decompression at this stage.

Josh: Yeah, but it's not even— I don't need time off. It's, it's— I'm literally—

Tommy: so what is it?

Josh: Like I said to you, pumped to get into the things that we're working on. More so than I have been able to give them based on having a child at home. So, it is all the things. More work.

Tommy: So, what are you seeking? So, but the thing is that I completely agree with what you're saying, but that sort of like decompression bitch that you're talking about and then the pump to get into it, they're sort of contradictory ideas in some regards. So, is it just requiring, if we're just looking at the small realm.

Josh: Not really.

Tommy: Not really.

Josh: It's, it's—

Tommy: so that's why, like, so if I'm saying mental capacity, it's unlocking mental capacity.

Josh: That's all it is. And so the decompression, maybe not the right word to— because how you're interpreting that, it's like, um, the, yeah, the unlocking of capacity, or, um—

Tommy: and so that doesn't require though the conversation. Because I think that the difference between the one version where it's like, oh, like, what I'm seeking is, uh, all in, like, what can we— like, you know, what can— how can I help? And all that sort of thing. That's seeking. That's like what you've just outlined that you're not that interested in, which is the week of like, oh, what can we do? Like, having those conversations and all that.

Josh: How's it not? How's it not? It's just not framed in the way that you've outlined it, that you would approach it, which is, yeah, literally the hard bit is that you do a full week of trying to get everything done and then the weekend highly consumed by a child to then come into the week to be able to—

Tommy: So how can I help then? How can I help in what you're saying?

Josh: Well, I guess it is not assuming that the way that it needs to be approached is your way. And that, but that's not to say that having—

Tommy: So do I not then lead in regard, like, so for instance, what I'm seeking or feeling that we need from a structure perspective would require, let's lock in a chat to go through things or let's do this.

Josh: But I love that though, but that's not what I'm saying. Like, but you've outlined me coming into the week not having thought like that as the problem where I'm saying like, well, that's structure. Like what I'm describing there is a level of structure. What I'm saying is I've unlocked time capacity to now do that. And you asked me, you wanted me to say that that's what I wanted, but it's like I haven't even known what I fucking wanted. I felt like, like everything— if you've listened to me in the last little while about what is, what I've been feeling, it's like this is the, a new chapter. And so I'm launching an ebook today, and I've written a, and I've done a 6-part video series, and I'm doing the course which drops tomorrow.

Tommy: Uh, no, but I think— so I think that what, what you're seeking, which makes complete sense, is you need a few days. You need a few days of like just being focused in your thing to then have, have the conversations around integrating you into more things, which makes complete sense and is a part of the process of doing the next thing. I think that sometimes Uh, you know, we have these conversations and we're always like, well, what are we arguing about? We're arguing for the exact same thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so the—

Josh: I mean, but the one thing is there's definitely around what you think should be the way of approaching this, and then how you interpret what I say, which is just an interesting— it's not even the argument, it's actually just the thing that I look at. It's like, ah, that is interesting. And then you're right, it is. I've been on the dinghy next to the superyacht and I'm fucking, I'm just about to jump back on the superyacht.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And I think the thing is like, I'm just trying to empathize. I think that the thing is that like what gets missed potentially is that I'm doing this because I'm frustrated or what, like I just want to help. I just want to be, and I want you to feel good in the team and I want you to feel that sort of thing. And so Any of my frustration is just when I don't feel like if I've got a clear answer of how the team, like how we can all be working to get the most out of you. And I think that it's outlined it now, which is like, it feels very uncomfortable without knowing that, without knowing you need time. It's quite a strange feeling for me because I want to be communicating. And so the thing is that if I just assume assumed that what you needed is space and time, I could also criticise myself in like, I'm not providing any structure because I'm not setting up these conversations and doing all that sort of thing. But now I know that like from a time perspective, it's like, this is what you want. I can do that without thinking about my internal sort of struggle on what to be doing.

Josh: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not— And in the same breath of— need time. It makes it feel like there's some fucking— putting the feet up watching telly.

Tommy: No, and I understand that. I understand that that's the, the insecurity that people would feel. It's just like, it's actually just being at your desk and being able to see what your fucking emails are and what the— like, going into Asana. Like, it makes complete sense. Like, you need some— and that's the luxury that I've had. Like, there's no doubting that I've had, you know, the luxury of being able to do like work all the time and just, and I love it. And, but it's on my terms, like I'm doing what, like I'm checking my email when I want and doing things. And so, what you're seeking now is the luxury that I have every single day, which I get.

Josh: But it also needs the structure you're talking about. To be able to find that consistency, to be able to— so we've outlined the desire for being able to focus during the week and also focus on being a parent in the times I need to. Like, it, it requires what you're saying to be able to achieve that so that you don't just be a gronk and ignore your kid and work over the weekend. So it does, it's, um, yeah, it's a— yeah.

Tommy: So fitness training at midday?

Josh: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Start with a walk, you know, they say you gotta walk before you run.

Tommy: Yeah, that's it.

Josh: And I don't fucking run.

Tommy: That's the Daily Talk Show. Enjoy the rest of your day and we'll see tomorrow, guys. Have a good one.

Josh: See you guys.