Australian Podcast Drama

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 738.

Tommy: Happy Saturday, guys. What's happening? What's going on?

Josh: Thank you to the, uh, Gronkh live streamers who have, uh, been patiently waiting. We're just doing a little bit of tech, uh, tech work, troubleshooting. Yeah, troubleshooting. But it's, it's all good. We're happy to be here on your Saturday.

Tommy: Some of us are flat, i.e., George. Some of us are fired up, i.e., Josh Jansen.

Josh: Very fired up.

Tommy: Fired up, baby. Okay. Very fired up. Like, I had a whole bunch of stuff I wanted to talk about.

Josh: Wipe it off.

Tommy: Yeah, I did that.

Josh: Welcome to Josh speaking, everyone. If you don't like Josh Jansen, get off the stream because this is, uh, there's a lot.

Tommy: You're beefing, you're beefing, you're just a man of the law. What's happening?

Josh: Okay, so where do we— should we start on my Discord message from 2:30 this morning?

Tommy: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I guess they're the way. So yeah, yeah, that was— I mean, you to be writing a message at 2:30 is one thing, uh, I mean, you to be up at 2:30 is it?

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: I mean, what, what happened at 2:30 AM? And read your message.

Josh: So, uh, what happened was at about, I don't know, like 11:30 Bree and I started to go to bed and there was a bunch of noise that was out and about. And we couldn't position where the noise was. The way that our sort of apartment works, we're sort of high up on the apartment, but you see, you can sort of see far out. And when you hear noise, it could be coming from like another apartment block or like down at a pub or you never know. Yeah. And—

Tommy: Oh, I remember as a kid hearing when it was a windy night, you could hear the local footy club that was miles away having a disco. And so, yeah, you're in a prime spot to just be confused, definitely.

Josh: And so, I was trying, like, so there was that bit of noise, but it's like, ah, just close the window, that will be fine. Anyway, at 2:30, or even, probably 2 o'clock, I woke up and there were people still going. And it was very, very loud. I thought, to be honest, like, because there was also thumping upstairs, and I have called 000 before for the thumping upstairs because there was screaming going on from a woman. And, um, I thought, this sounds like a domestic thing, call 000. She was downstairs crying, and I would— I checked on the intercom or whatever, like, look on the intercom because you can see outside and saying that she was talking to the cops and visibly upset. And so I was happy that I did something so she could be safe, or, you know, whatever. So I was hearing, I was hearing screaming and I was hearing banging upstairs. So I thought this could be like a domestic thing again, or what's going on, like who's, who's banging at, um, 2 AM? And I realised that the screaming were people, uh, a couple of floors down. Having a party. So I heard the noise, I was like, I think this is maybe Dan Murphy's. Like, I thought people were at the ground of Dan Murphy's out the front, and I couldn't see them because there's like a roof, and I thought it was all echoing. And then I was inside, uh, our room, and I look down and I see a few heads of people sort of looking over the balcony out. I'm like, there they are. That's the people making all of this noise. And so my heart started to race, my hands extremely clammy, but I got up and Bree said, what are you doing? I said, I'm getting the megaphone. And so I went outside because I worked out exactly where they were. I pointed the megaphone down, I had the volume on full, and this is what I said. Pretty loud and full.

Tommy: It's pretty fucking loud and full. Do you need to say the sponsor of the megaphone before you—

Josh: It's 2 AM, be quiet. And so there would have been— there was a— there— I reckon there was 10 people on this balcony, right?

George: Yeah.

Josh: And so Bree was listening.

Tommy: Is that against the law?

Mason: That's— is that against the law?

Josh: Well, yeah, it was hard to tell how many because it was all sort of reverberating around and things like that. And, um, yeah, I come inside and, and, um, so a guy, when I said that, he's like, no, we're here to party, right? But then a good response, but then I go in and Bree's like, "Oh, did you hear what they said?" 'Cause she was listening out through the window, which sort of, you can sort of hear the balcony stuff. And the girls were like, "Was that a megaphone?" Just like some drunk chick being like, "Is that a megaphone? Who's got a megaphone?" And anyway, after that guy yelled, they all went inside and shut the fuck up. And it was the most exhilarating experience. Of my life. And I was like, then I, I didn't get it, Shannon. I didn't get any— this is how serious I was. It wasn't even for content. I didn't film it, but I did think I was going to comment on— I didn't, but we've got a Facebook group for our building, and I was gonna write— I didn't, but I was gonna write, one, who, who was making all of that noise And two, whoever that guy with the megaphone is, an absolute legend. Just to deflect from me being the megaphone guy, but I feel like potentially they'll look at my profile pic and be like, that's the megaphone guy.

Mason: Definitely a megaphone guy.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: All they'd have to do is just look through a bit of content and then they'd see you at the park running us through a PT session. I was thinking about a, just a quick mod for the megaphone, a GoPro mount with a GoPro that lives on it. And so anytime you are doing any of that shit, so you can have footage, just click it on, boom, and then get it out there.

Mason: It'd be cool.

Tommy: POV.

Josh: Well, then I straight away went down, like, because we couldn't sleep. We actually listened— BBC 4 radio, very good in the evenings.

George: Like, at—

Josh: like, we— Bree and I couldn't sleep, and so like 3 AM, we're listening to them doing. So it was almost reminded me of Have You Been Paying Attention? It's sort of like the news thing. It was very good. Yeah, highly recommended. But I was also— so that was the link. Yeah, go on.

Tommy: I was just— yeah, what were you Googling?

Josh: I know, so I was Googling megaphone laws, for instance, because I'm like, like, what's the deal? Like, can I do this? Is this okay? But then I didn't find much on megaphone laws, but I did find like a megaphone website. So I started like looking at upgrades and thinking about like Wow, this $299 one's like really legit. And I don't understand the wattage, but I'm like, this one's like, I saw one, it's like, oh, that's a 50-watt. No, well, fuck, that's only 20. I need a 50-watt.

Tommy: And so it must be the volume of the actual, yeah, like the actual audio that comes out of it. We don't need it any louder. That thing is really loud, really loud.

Josh: And so I even, but I was going to say, yeah, go on.

Tommy: I was going to say, you know, it's not the, I mean, That was 2:30 AM that you were blasting the megaphone. But only maybe 6 hours later, you were blasting the megaphone on Instagram via the form of comment on Osher Gunsberg's latest post.

Josh: Yeah. No, well, so, I mean, I feel like I don't—

Tommy: You were like high after last night.

Josh: Yeah. The thing is I was also sweating again. I actually, no joke. I did the comment and after clicking send on the comment, I put deodorant on. Like, I was like, it was insane because like, I'm not someone to comment on shit. But we did a prerecord of Jack Post's podcast yesterday and this video actually came up. Can you sort of set up what the video is? Have you watched the video?

Tommy: Yeah, so I got sent it a bunch of times. I'm sure all you guys did too., and it was made by the ABC, and they've got a bunch of celebrities. Who's on there? I can't even— I don't even know. Osher Gunsberg is on there, um, a guy that was on MasterChef, a girl that was on Offspring, and a bunch of others. A chef, Matt Moran's on there. Oh yeah, Fitzian Whippa. Yeah, yeah, it was on. Yeah, it was one of those things in a while. And so anyway, the, the essence of the video is basically it's, it's black and white and seems like they're talking about something serious, you know, don't do this, please, whatever you do, don't.

Mason: It could be like a Polish Man sort of video or like domestic violence, almost, almost.

Tommy: And then at the end it says, whatever you do, don't start a podcast in isolation. And then it's like it goes into the hard, going hard on that. And Jack Osher's post brought it up on the show yesterday and I hadn't spoken to you about it. And that's where I found out that you didn't feel the same way as the people who made it or some of the people that found it funny. So this is what the comment is all about. Can I just read it? 'Cause I think it sums it up really well. Like I think it is, you've sort of succinct, it's a succinct version of what you've been thinking. And so on Osher's post, which is the, this video, you've jumped in and said—

Josh: Which before you say the comment, he had, when he wrote the Instagram post, it says something along the lines of basically Twitter is a bunch of trolls and maybe this video will get more love on here. And so, I was like, I know how I feel about this. I'm gonna go on Twitter and I'm like, no, this is exactly what I was saying yesterday. On Jack's podcast, and so that sort of gave me the, uh, the energy to write this. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And so this is from your personal account, this is not from the Daily Talk Show. But I mean, nowadays if any of us do anything, we, we— it's basically coming from the Daily Talk Show, and I'm happy to put my name behind this. You could have sent it from the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: Don't you think also from a brand value perspective, like, I have I was wondering, do I send this? I'm like, hang on, if I'm willing to do, if I'm willing to buy australianpodcastranker.com, this is very aligned with that brand value. And so I was like, let's do it.

Tommy: To be honest, at the end of this, I'm just looking forward to what the domain is that you've purchased.

Josh: This is the comment document. I got fucked at oshkinsberg.com, but I actually bought that last year. Oshavinselmark.com.

Tommy: Okay, here it is. Here it is. 'Not one to comment.' Sorry, um, 'Not one to comment, and I understand the toxicity of Twitter, but I think this misses the mark. Having spoke— having spoken to a bunch of people who have wanted to start podcasts, the biggest barrier is, why should people listen to me? Or what will people say? There's a suppressive quality to this style of joke in this video.' 'Which actually ends up impacting underrepresented voices. Everyone who wants to start a podcast should.' And I could imagine just that hit and just the heart just racing. And because also the thing is, leave it open for like, how long do you look at the screen after the post? Like, we—

Josh: well, yeah, straight away refresh. Well, because the thing is, I feel like it is a bit unlike me in regards to anything that is framed as a joke, I'm normally like, I would always prefer a joke over taking things seriously. But the framing of it, yeah. And so I understand they're like, uh, this is irony, like, oh, you're missing the point, this is irony. But at the same time, I'm like, here is Osha Ginsburg, once of one of the most sensitive snowflakes that there are, not only in the world, but in the podcast. He does a 10-minute bit before every show about how he's feeling, yet he has no sensitivity to how people might be perceiving this. And so the frustration I have is, um, it just felt very off-brand for Osher, for the guy who's all about like mental health and all that sort of thing. Bringing it down to, mate, this is just a joke, and oh, you don't understand irony. I think, like, I understand irony, don't get me wrong. I understand completely how ironic it is, but it's not funny.

Tommy: Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, his response to you was, Josh, and that's the irony. I believe exactly everyone who wants to start a podcast should do so. I think, I think this is an issue with meme culture is like people do jump on board when everybody else might have a, a bit of a laugh and then start sort of ripping into it. And so no, I do see the point. I just like that you feel something about this. Two of the most sensitive men in Australia having a, having a biff on Instagram. It's actually a beautiful sight to see.

Josh: But the thing is that I just, I, I also think that it just comes from You know, not to make that privilege thing and representation, but it does to me feel so much like that, which is the internal voice that everyone has that's like, why should people listen to me? And the thing is, the people that can move past that are people like us. I wasn't writing it for us. I'm writing it for all the people who are like, I'm thinking about starting one, I don't know. Like they, yeah, they would have gotten the fucking USB microphone and they're like, where, like, who's gonna give me permission to do this? And I think that especially with all those people who were represented in that, they've all been picked. They've all, and the thing is that you don't have to be picked anymore. The democratisation of media means anyone can pick, you know, pick up a microphone and create something. It doesn't mean that people need to listen to it, but I think that that's— it's like super dangerous, super suppressive. And I just don't think that it's— I think that when he is a top podcaster without actually having the proper message there and saying, hey, actually you should go and start a podcast, and even elevating people and saying, here's resources, this is how you do it, I think like it missed the mark.

Tommy: Well, I don't think Seth Godin would— I think he'd probably have a bit of a chuckle, but he's also the guy that says everybody should start a podcast. It is the blog of the modern day. It's— it allows people to sort of exercise their thinking and verbalise what's going on inside their head. So no, I do, I do.

Josh: And so the thing is, so to his defense, he wrote back and says I want everyone to start a podcast. And people DM me obviously after they see it because it got liked by a bunch of like just, you know, industry people or people who are sort of in a similar position. And they're saying, hey, bit ironic when you've got a guy who is sponsored by Rode who is constantly saying, hey, start a podcast, you should start a podcast. And so I understand the irony in that. And I, and so part of me empathizes, and this is why I said on the Jack Before he doubled down and put it on Twitter and put it on Instagram, the conversation we had is it's like, I love Dan Illich who we've had on the show. He produces a bunch of those ads for, what's the ABC show called again, Georgie Boy?

George: At Home Alone Together.

Josh: At Home Alone Together, which I love. Like I loved watching that.

George: Gotcha.

Josh: And so for me it was just that it was taken out of context, turned into that meme. And then he was sort of spreading that without the context. But yeah, he did come back and say, I want everyone to start, like the irony is I want everyone to start a podcast, but I just feel like there isn't enough comedic nuance to be anything more than just negativity. Yeah.

Tommy: And if anything, we know that George knows comedy and he's just said he agrees with you.

Josh: Yeah, George R.R.

Tommy: Martin. They missed the mark, absolutely missed it.

George: I know, I hadn't actually thought about it too much. Like I watched it and I was like, I just sort of flicked, like watched it and then that was it. I didn't think, I didn't even know you commented. But now that you say that, like you articulated that beautifully, Jade. Like I reckon that's bang on. When I watched it, I just didn't find it funny really.

Josh: Well, someone said it's like punching down and it does feel like that. It's like, it's sort of, if you look at the comments and the—

Mason: Crystal likened it to, it's like, it's not about climbing up the ladder, reaching the roof. And then pulling up the ladder behind you so no one else can get or follow you up and do what you did.

Josh: Yeah, and that's, I guess, the whole, the whole point of it is it's, um, yeah, like, I think so. I was, I was a bit annoyed about that, but I also understand that the, um, uh, I also push back on the cancel culture shit too, but I just think like what, like, I think that it would be a good opportunity for someone like Osher to actually use the platform to extend, but like get more people doing it. I think if we think about the conversations that we're having off air, it's like, oh, we've learned all this stuff, how can we share it? And it feels like that old school mentality of it's like, I've been picked, I've got like somehow I've got something important to say, where it's like, if we know anything, it's all made up. We just like— just because we technically know how to do it doesn't mean that we have better things to say than someone down the road. And it's just through doing it every day and the practise of speaking that you start to synthesise all that stuff.

Tommy: Yeah. And I think that is why the sensitivity is there for you, because it is something we're talking and thinking about a lot every day. And it can't— like, there is a reality that it could change your life. Like, as dumb as, you know, as trivial as they make it out, like, doing it could change your life personally, like financially, whatever it be. There's many elements it can shift. I mean, look at the Call Her Daddy girls. Oh yeah, change their life by starting.

Josh: Call Her Daddy. Can you explain to people what do you know about the Call Her Daddy drama? Or should we get George to do it? Because I know George, if we know anything about the SEO stuff. What do you know about Call Her Daddy?

George: I actually have no— do you want me to make it up? Or— because I actually don't know.

Tommy: Yeah, he's good.

Josh: He's good at making shit up. Do you want me to make it up? No, you don't have to make it up. Um, TJ, what's, what's your take? Like, what do you know so far from someone who has no idea about the show, about Barstool?

Tommy: Well, I've seen them. I mean, they're that big that their show kind of trickles into Australia. They're huge in the States, and I remember listening to one of their episodes and just thinking it was interesting what, uh, sponsors they had on it. It was like dick cream to stop you from ejaculating. It was like, I was like, whoa, this is blowing my mind. What the fuck is this show about? And that was about it. That was years ago. And then recently there's, I mean, the New York Post, um, writing about the controversy that's going on. Basically, they're— they went from signing a deal, not having any audience building, you know, getting $75 grand a year, which is unbelievable if you could sign a deal from the get-go creating a podcast, to then the next year it growing so much that they're on almost $500,000 a year each, which if they listened to Osher's ad, they wouldn't have done it and they wouldn't be in this position. And then they were trying to leave the contract, the deal that they were in, they would, you know, someone was shopping it around and then it's politics, and next minute there's legal battles. But it is one of the classic, like, online, very, very, um, public, uh, versions of a modern-day tussle, you know. Like, it's the owner of the company that produces the podcast, Barstool Sports, um, big, big business. The owners making videos, making podcasts, releasing on their feed, and then they're doing their own YouTube talking about what's happened. I mean, it's very entertaining. I'm sure it will do wonders if they can get themselves out of this and do the podcast again. So much publicity, right? So much publicity around them.

Josh: My perspective has changed though. So when we first were talking, because it's, it's funny what the stuff that you can consume and how we can, like, we all love a good storey and you hear the one side or whatever, and then you start to hear hear other perspectives. So there is that side, which is like the way that it was communicated from a network perspective was, here's two people who didn't have an audience. They used the network, like, um, through the network they got all of this support and, um, it blew up. It did really well. Like, they were a lot of times like the second podcast on Apple Podcasts. They were doing something Yeah, Top Charts, I think they were doing something like 2 million downloads an episode. So the interesting thing about it is when we talk about it, we can say, okay, $500,000 a year, that's ridiculous, that's a lot of money. If you are trying to get more than that, you're being greedy, all that type of gear. I heard that the Barstool Network, Barstool Sports, were making $100,000 an episode off that show. So if you consider, okay, like if this is a weekly show, let's just say you do like— so if you did 40 episodes a year, that's $4 million in revenue. Um, and so I do wonder how much of these conversations get lost because we look at the number and then we compare it to a healthcare worker or something, and we say, well, if you look at what a nurse gets paid and then you look at what they're asking for, this is ridiculous. But then the flip side is, if it's the industry standard, if they're making an organisation a fuck tonne of money, shouldn't they be— I can't say that word— remunerated for—

Mason: immunized—

Josh: that, yeah, from that success?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just— it will be a great storey by the end of it because they're— you're hearing all those sides. It'll be a great podcast in itself, unless they listen to Osher's advice, it won't be. Um, but it's— yeah, I mean, it pla— I think people love a bit of a drama, and this is a drama in somewhere weird, sort of weird world that's, you know, weird bubble. It is a bubble.

Josh: Do you want to talk about the Aussie podcast drama, or should we keep clear of it? It's blowing up. Yeah, we've had a couple of chatting to it. Yeah, chatting about it in the comments.

Tommy: So about, about, um, the Australian, about the Australian, the American, the Australian podcast.

Josh: So just, I'll, I'll just say it how I'll do it through my perspective. This isn't the opinion of the Daily Talk Show, it's just Josh Jansen on his soapbox.

Tommy: So if I'm racist on this show, mate, everyone goes down. I'm not racist, so it's not gonna happen, but it is, yeah.

Josh: So there is a podcast called Outspoken, which is funny, I probably, like the hard thing is that this like talking, like the conversation that they've had has done exactly what they want to do, which is getting ears listening to this stuff. But so there's a podcast, was started, I'm gonna say like a year ago, um, uh, with, uh, with twins. And the craziness— I know, so it started with twins. So it started with, um, just the two. So two, uh, women from trip— like, but they're triplets. So it started with two of them.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: Um, like media and comms people. They used to work at Channel 7. There was an unfair dismissal thing that happened. They talked about that a little bit. Anyway, when they launched, what grabbed my attention was, oh, um, Shameless have changed the colour of their, um, their artwork. And so if you type in Outspoken Podcast into Google and you look at the first image on Google Images, you'll see some podcast artwork that you would think is the Shameless podcast artwork. Uh, it's— this isn't— this isn't about, uh, so I think it's important to separate two, two things: women as hosts of a podcast versus the aesthetic of a podcast. And so if you look at the, uh, overall artwork, it's like, okay, there's a clear play here to whether it's to confuse the audience or whether it's to, um, to say, to say, um, inspiration. So say if you're like really early stages of doing something and you love Shameless, it's like, okay, I'm going to do this, um, uh, we're going to start a podcast, let's, let's do something similar. Or aesthetically, like, I, I couldn't believe I was watching Ben Shapiro's podcast and you see some of his, um, podcast artwork and you're like, oh, there's similarities with the Daily Talk Show or whatever. And he's— he was doing his before us. And so it's like there's only a certain amount of ways that you can do all this, um, this thing, right?

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Anyway, anyway, the, uh, the friction came when, um Outspoken did an episode on their podcast which was deconstructing Shameless. And so they were saying Michelle and Zara went from deconstructing influencers to becoming influencers themselves. And so based on— and so the comments on there is, okay, it is a constructive piece of feedback. I don't know necessarily how much of this we need. I don't know how much, like, how much it actually brought things up, but they do a piece, uh, on their podcast all about Shameless, um, saying like bringing up their, their reviews and all that sort of thing. Um, Jen Day, who we've had on our podcast before uh, her— I think like the Outspoken confirmed and said that it was Jen Day— comment, left a review after that episode, uh, last week and said, um, the, uh, this is basically unoriginal. And so Outspoken took that, uh, review, screen grabbed it, and put it up on their Instagram. And then did a follow-up 10-minute episode where they deconstructed Genevieve Day's comment and connected it with things like, um, so there's like Shameless did a whole thing around— I forgot the exact word— like misogyny, like, um, within sort of women and how based on society women are, you know, tearing down women and all that sort of thing. Where I feel conflicted is that I felt that the original Outspoken piece is framed in a way that it's this journalistic piece that's, you know, this hit— not a hit piece isn't the right word, but it's this well-researched piece that is the gold standard of like deconstructing this stuff. Whereas I feel the way that it was, the way that I perceived it listening to it was it was just a shitcanning episode, um, as an opportunity to gain listenership. And so anyway, I just find that— so this is— that's the whole drama that's been happening. I think that there's, um, I heard from someone that it worked. I mean, well, yeah, so then, so then do that at a cost though. So then people go on to Shameless's reviews and leave 1-star reviews and say, "Outspoken did a great piece about Shameless. You've got to go listen to it. Like, it answers all the questions." Yeah. And so I just think, do— so if you were to build an audience off the back of speaking that way is it really a win? Like, is that a community? Is that like— is that type of conversation, is that way of winning really the type of community that you want at the end of the day?

Tommy: Yeah, I don't know if it necessarily would be what I'd want to do. I think it could be a version of people who build audiences off prank channels and then try and do something purposeful once they've built the audience. And the point being is they've— it's a certain type of person watching. It could be a certain type of person that likes the drama and has jumped over and listened. And I'm sure they will find, you know, some great people who enjoy what they're producing. But I think there will— but yeah, it— I guess it's like, what can you live with? What are you okay with? Look at the other thing, um, Joe Rogan, so his YouTube channel with these green kind of like slime green sort of photos over his videos, so the thumbnails. Logan Paul does it, all these other YouTubers do it. No one gives a shit, they're all big. I think that's— that is where if you were— if you were the bigger podcast or the bigger brand within that unless they're fully ripping your, uh, you know, your create— like, unless they're completely stealing something like a website or something. I don't know, maybe it's just worth just head down. You're doing something right if people are copying you. You are doing something right, which is one version. But no, you're right, that's a different conversation. The do you want the audience that comes from doing something like what they have done. Maybe not.

Josh: And then using things like, okay, the Melbourne Click. They were talking about the Melbourne Click and describing names and things like that. I was like, how productive—

Tommy: we gotta mention—

Josh: is that? Yeah, the daily talk show. Um, not in regards to the click, which was hurtful. No, the, um—

Tommy: I want— I'm pissed off that we weren't in that, to be honest. I wanted to be the click.

Josh: This is the only reason I'm doing this, is hopefully we get a deconstruction and this sort of Lifts our numbers.

Mason: Dissection of the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: Then we get a bonus from management. But the, um, yeah, yeah, I mean, I just don't, um, I think that like the empathy I have for them is if they were willing to, if they were willing to do the artwork that they were to do at the start of their podcast and they were able to do things like, and also just completely rip certain elements of Shameless and just, and run with it. My feeling is that their level of self-awareness isn't there, and so any of this criticism or feedback is going to be missed on them anyway because, uh, so this is the— so TJ's have brought up the original Shameless artwork.

Tommy: Yeah, so that's, that's the Shameless artwork. Um, and then bear with me, this, guys, is the Outspoken artwork. Yeah, it's a much smaller photo, but that's, uh, both sponsored by Adidas.

George: Crazy.

Josh: But, um, you know, I just—

Tommy: and so I'm up both at the same time. I can do that too. That's how tech savvy I am.

George: Put that one.

Josh: Yeah, it's very good.

Tommy: And then we just activate that one and bring it over here.

Josh: And so I think that part of it is it's like, um, I'm good at tech stuff, guys.

Tommy: That could be our thumbnail.

Josh: That's great.

George: Yeah.

Josh: Maybe we could do the Daily Talk Show. Should we do a new Daily Talk Show?

George: Can you get that?

Tommy: Can you go wide on that?

Josh: Yeah. But you know, like part of it, part of it that was, I don't know whether this is right or wrong. I'm just saying how I feel today. And so I am leaning into it. Yeah, leaning into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I'm surprised this hasn't all been said through the microphone, the megaphone, my bad, megaphone.

Josh: The megaphone.

Tommy: Surprised it hasn't all come through the megaphone.

Josh: Extremely rude not calling it by its proper name. No, they, so they did the post, which is like room for every, or space for everyone. And they put themselves in the middle.

Tommy: Sorry, hang on, I haven't listened to the episode. Did they, did they address the, the, the blatant rip-off of the artwork?

Mason: No.

Tommy: Did they?

Josh: I mean, they started that show with a whole piece on, uh, food hierarchies, which, I mean, um, with, uh, our mate Bruno up in Sydney has been doing the, uh, food hierarchy stuff for a while. But also Michelle, he's the list king. Yeah, the list king. Uh, Michelle from Shameless was doing a bunch of that, but the I feel like, um, like whether it's coming out from an awareness point of view or even just like, you know, when you listen to something and you just take ideas, I feel like they're potentially— they said outspoken, uh, one of them at least said on their show that they're a massive fan of Shameless. And I think that what could be helpful, and this is something that I have done myself is just not consume stuff that's really similar to yours because it ends up, whether you like it or not, you end up picking up ideas and doing things and you become sort of a bit homogenised and it becomes less interesting.

Tommy: But then own it, right? Like my early day videos are probably like Casey Neistat's because I fucking watched everything that he ever produced and I needed something to go on.. And so that artwork, very similar, whether you did it or not, you're going to go, well, my fuck, we did. That was very similar. And we were fans of theirs. And that's a template that I can run with. And so do I think that you can never copy people or at least use it as inspiration to start the wheels turning? I think you can do that, but you can't, you can't not own it. You can't not go, I was influenced. Yeah, 100%. And is it where I want to be in the future? No. But yeah, I guess it's, um, when, when you come out and then point the finger.

Josh: Yeah. And but I guess where it gets tricky is what they do bring up, which I think is a relevant point, is just because, uh, they're women doing a pop culture show doesn't mean that there can be, you know, there can't be others. And I think that that's, that's an interesting area exploring. Okay, like there is space for everyone in that regards. Like, uh, just like, uh, TJ, you and I were talking about, uh, duos who were, you know, during the Hamish and Andy times and being sort of compared to with Hamish and Andy. That would be hard. Shameless don't own the pop culture section of the market, but I think that it would be maybe a good idea just to provide something that's different. Like, at the moment, I feel like, um, Michelle and Zara are Telstra and Outspoken are Optus. And, um, you know, the Outspoken is the Hungry Jack's, uh, Michelle and Zara the McDonald's. Um, and so, like, I guess that's like— that's, that's definitely the strategy. And unfortunately, I feel like, should that strategy— I mean the way that you get there by, you know, talking about the other one. The hard thing is it makes sense for Optus to slam Telstra, but it doesn't make sense for Telstra to ever mention that Optus exists. And so what will be interesting—

Tommy: I think that's what happens.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, sorry, we'll shameless— we'll shameless address it because I know that there's a part of me that would be like, fuck these guys. Like, uh, here's 3 trolls that don't know me who copied, uh, you know, did something a year and a half after and then has the guts to, uh, or the bravado to do a whole deconstruction when they don't even know us.

Tommy: Um, I don't think the girls will. I, I—

Josh: you don't think they'll reference it? Yeah, but then Jen Day, what the Jen Day stuff her going out— so Jen Day, Shameless's manager, writing a review.

Tommy: I sort of understand if she would have been sweating and heart beating like you, JJ.

Josh: Exactly, with the OSHA thing.

Tommy: And then, and so there is— you cannot pull— you, if you do one you don't want to, you don't want to put your name to, in 5 minutes' time you can't pull a review, can you?

Josh: I would have probably created 10 different accounts. Josh Janson 613. I would have flooded it after doing it and panicking. I would have created— I would have used— I would have gone to the Apple Store, I would have created 10 different accounts with Josh Janson spelled differently, and then it's like, which one's the real one? Like, I've been like, look at all these different accounts. But, um, no, but I think that, um, yeah, it is interesting what's like— why is this an ISO thing? Has everyone fucking lost the plot because we're all in ISO?

Tommy: No, I think Michelle and Zara are successful, and when anyone is successful, there's a lot of eyeballs on you and making a lot of judgments. I, I empathise with what they're going through. Some comments in the, you know, the, on their reviews and that, that aren't great and point out things, but it's like they're also fucking humans that are just giving it a red-hot crack and battling with their own shit. So I don't know, I tend to, I tend to not press send on things that I, you know, when I make the judgments, and, and usually it blows over. But some people are trigger happy and shoot, shoot from the hip.

Josh: What's the conversation though? Like, imagine— I was thinking about it— the conversation if we had a manager and they come in and bat for us. However, a week before, we do a post about this exact thing and the negative sort of repercussions of that type of content. It's different if you've got an employee. So if Georgie Boy does it, you know, you sit down, you have a chat, say, sorry, Georgie Boy, Hump Day Replay has been great, but Sev's now editing them. They're going to be shit.

Mason: Disaster.

Josh: Yeah, dude, they're all, they're all going to be on iMovie. Yeah, yeah. Um, all out of focus. It would be so bad. Yeah.

Tommy: What a good thought is, what do you want to be known for? Because if the thing you do is successful, does gain attention, what is it that you want to be known for? And if it— I don't think most people would answer with about sort of calling out somebody for something, you know, like as the main thing that you are known for.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, the thing that lost it, like, I I went in with a preconceived idea on the Outspoken one because they did a 10-minute bit beforehand about biscuit hierarchy. So, they're saying these are the best biscuits. And then they just randomly said that they weren't allowed biscuits when they were kids. And so, what sort of— That's going to fuck you up. No biscuits as kids. Like, what sort of weird cult were they part of?

Tommy: Deep diving into that ground. My mum— had a party for my brother when he was young. He's my eldest. Mum, if you're watching, I'm sorry for telling the story, but she had carob cake. My brother has not forgiven my mother for that. Yes, that is very distressing. Carob cake at a party, bloody fruit spread. No, no, no choccy cake. No, no. I mean, I got every dessert, every bloody ice cream cake under the sun, and I turned out horribly. So I don't know.

Josh: Yeah, I wonder how much— I wonder how much of them doing the podcast about Shameless came from when they were kids not getting biscuits. There could be a correlation.

Tommy: Yeah, and that's, um, that's your bro science hat on right there. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it, I get it.

Josh: Okay, what is your favourite biscuit though? What do you reckon the top biscuit is?

Tommy: Dude, I mean, as I got older, I just want something that is— I mean, we're talking from a packet, like a— actually, Mint Slice. I'd go Mint Slice. I know it's not the one for everyone, but definitely not the one. I like it because I get so many. Yeah, that's why we're friends.

Mason: Tim Tams are great.

Tommy: Yeah, Timmies are great. It has to be double. They need to also coat every Tim Tam they ever make moving forward.

Josh: Yeah, why not? That's just standard, isn't it? It's sort of like—

Tommy: that should be standard.

Josh: It's like going double-coated Tim Tams.

George: Yeah, it's like getting less though in the packet.

Josh: Is that true?

Tommy: Oh no, that's huge.

George: I think you get like 7. I think you get 7 double coats. That's a 9. Holy shit.

Josh: I know that at Reynolds in my hometown. They ripped you off somewhere.

Tommy: It is the equivalent of getting everyone on 11. It's the 9 and 11. They're the difference.

George: I just got told.

Tommy: In the packets.

Josh: Just got told. Just got told.

Tommy: Just got told. You can't like, it's not everyone gets on the strong. Everyone has normal lattes, and then all of a sudden they put you back on weak lattes. It's disappointing.

Mason: It's very—

Tommy: it's— yeah, I mean, it's what I was—

Mason: no, no, I was just— no, no, just, just on the biscuit stuff, I will say it's quite vanilla, but Milk Arrowroot are great. Oh, Arnott's Milk Arrowroot biscuits, they're so, so underrated. Nah, they're so good. They're like, they're like oval-shaped biscuit, like Yeah, they're so good.

Tommy: Yeah, it's because they use— are used to make sort of like, um, the base of slices. Oh, they're just— they're that basic that they're used in, in, in the base of slicing.

Mason: Baking.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, like the chocolate one.

Josh: Mum makes a Oreo. No, no, no, what's that thing?

Mason: You can blitz those up there, Grant.

Josh: Scotch finger. No, it's, it's brown. It's, uh, and then she makes—

Tommy: they make the cake there.

Josh: She put cream.

Tommy: Oh, oh, oh, the cream cake thing.

Josh: What is it called?

Tommy: Oh, Bavarian—

George: no.

Tommy: And then you soak them in orange juice and you put cream on them.

George: Oreo?

Tommy: My brother—

Josh: no, no. Chocolate ripple, chocolate ripple cake. Thank you.

Tommy: Chocolate ripple cake. You think you liked it as a kid, you ask your miso to make it for your birthday, and you feel sick by the second bite. That is legit what happens. That is exactly— my brother wanted one, his wife made it for his birthday. We had it and we're all just like, I feel so sick and I don't remember this part from when I was a kid. What the fuck?

Josh: I get that. Top of the orange cheese sandwich is great. You can use it for a base with that. Yeah, it's really good.

George: Yeah.

Mason: Anyway, I mean, I was, um, just, just quickly, just on my beard. I think, I think I need a bit of help, to be honest.

Josh: One thing that, like, they can't take from us is our beards. We're not gunslingers.

Tommy: We can't prescribe testosterone for you. You can't do it. So, I mean, I do what you can't do.

Josh: This is day 10.

Mason: This is, this is, yeah, this is day 10, and I'm already sort of second-guessing the decision to go for 2 months.

Tommy: Why?

Mason: I'm just, well, it's just, it's annoying. Like, I'm in bed and I'm on my pillow and, and I'm getting like irritation here.

Josh: Why don't you get—

Mason: and I'm touching my face too much. A silk pillow.

Tommy: But what's the difference? Nothing about your pillow. Sevs, this is an adjustment. It'd just be like if you got your penis pierced, you'd have to sort of go through the time of getting adjustment, you know, it feeling okay. Can't speak for my viewers yet, but— No, I reckon there could be another week or two that it will then— it won't feel the same way. And I get mine past a certain point and it doesn't itch anymore. And so like there is a point, and I don't know, maybe it's just all feeling new for you, but you need to push through, buddy. Push through. I saw you yesterday and you do appear sort of, I don't know, older, like more mature. It is working for you, I think. It is working for you.

Mason: Okay.

George: Except when he cleaned up my Prosecco.

Josh: That was great. If you haven't watched that video, you should. We put it on YouTube. We need to put up all your past daily videos, TJ. On YouTube as well.

Tommy: The good thing is I tried, I tried to make them as, um, sort of, you know, standalone as possible. Yeah, I haven't been saying day 1, day 2, only a couple of them. But no, we will get them up. But yesterday's video was the making of Georgie Boy's hump day replay. And, um, as, as, uh, one of your friends Rob said, what have you done with George?

Josh: That was the best way. Where is my friend George?

Tommy: Because I don't know that guy in that video.

Josh: I watched Freaky Friday the other day and it reminds me of like, there is something fun about playing a different character. Like Freaky Friday is a great example because it's like they're literally changing like spots. I think it could be fun to do an ep— like a Freaky Friday TJ Daily where I am in your body and you're in my body. And so we completely change everything up. We could even do a whole episode and switch it around. Yeah.

Tommy: Hey, I hadn't come up with a name, and I spoke on Jack Post's podcast about how as a kid I never named anything, never named my pets. Had a pet snake. What was its name? Snake. I didn't even say— I just— this is my pet snake, this is my pet, uh, lizard, which is a little bit— it's got a name, I don't need to fucking give it another. But it is, as you pointed out, psychopathic. Yeah, but I like TJ Daily. TJ Daily as a brand, as some kind of You're gonna get the dot com. TJDaily.

Mason: TJDaily.com.

Tommy: TJDaily.com. And so that's the video content. It could be something else. I like it.

George: Thanks, JJ.

Tommy: You just said that and it resonated.

Josh: Oh, good. Thank you. What did I say?

George: I've been—

Tommy: You said TJDaily.

Mason: I just take credit for that.

Tommy: What if you TJDaily'd me?

Mason: It's all good.

Tommy: Yeah, go ahead.

George: You said TJDaily.

Josh: I think I say it on the WhatsApp every time. I had a coffee today, by the way. First coffee since I stopped.

Tommy: Hang on, how many days is that?

Josh: Because who had the bet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick, I made sure that I absolutely smashed that. No, it was like I did over 7 days. It could have been 10 days. You just took a week off coffee, Nick. Yeah, but I felt great. But the thing is, I didn't feel any headaches or anything. So, I'm thinking coffee on the weekends.

Tommy: And then that is good. I, I was doing that for ages, but I just— if you don't have the rule, it's Matt Diavella's rule life. He's— if you don't have it, it's easy just when I'm with you, JJ, to go, big baby, you want a coffee? I'm getting one. You're like, yeah, because it's just— you just—

Josh: yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And then I actually— it is a lot easier having 3 a day. Yeah, you're having 3 a day. I'm fucked.

Josh: And so I've been getting a lot more hydrated, which is good. I think that that's a Oh, hang on, hang on.

Tommy: When did you have the coffee? Jesus Christ. What time did you have the coffee? Because I'm just checking Osher Gunsberg's wall.

Josh: Is this when you had the coffee? No, no, no. So it was, um, no, I had the coffee at like 10 AM.

Tommy: 10 AM? And when did you put up the post?

Josh: No, no, I put up the post beforehand.

Tommy: I think that's why you got the coffee. You're like, I need to get out.

Josh: Yeah, I need to just need to—

Tommy: I need to keep this high going. I need to get this—

Josh: because Breen and I, we were listening to Radio 4 at like 3 in the morning. And so we had the weirdest sleep, like we're just wide awake talking about like, "Ah, that's funny." Like just talking like it's like middle of the day or whatever. And then woke up.

George: Yeah.

Josh: So yeah, anyway, cool story. Any other news from you guys?

Mason: Great.

Josh: I feel like I've just talked the whole time. Nah, I love it.

Tommy: Oh, my puffer jacket arrived.

Josh: Oh, it arrived.

Tommy: Did it? Did it have the keys in it?

Josh: It's a different brand.

Mason: No, no keys.

Josh: Can you put it on for us now?

George: No, no, no.

Josh: It's Patagonia, it's black.

George: Hang on.

Tommy: Good brand, good brand. If you were to rip off one brand in puffer jackets, it's Patagonia. They're doing something right, aren't they? Here we go. It's just awesome.

Josh: You happy with the sizing?

Mason: I think so, potentially. Like, it's just, I mean, what's there to look at a puffer?

Tommy: Well, tight or like Josh wears quite a baggy one, and do you want it sort of like one you could wear to a business meeting?

Josh: This is a stylish— oh, that's— you look so good. This is definitely a little bit tight. Yeah, this is facial hair. You look like a real bro. You look like a San Francisco, Silicon Valley. Just, can you zip it up please?

Tommy: He's got his nice sort of tight jeans on with his Lacrosse, what is it? Lacoste shoes.

Mason: Lacoste shoes. Lacoste shoes.

Tommy: Oh mate, you're just heading to Mr. Miyagi tonight for dinner, aren't you?

Josh: Yeah, that's where you're off to go. Go for a walk, South Yarra.

Mason: How high do you want it, JJ? This is great.

Tommy: Dude, you need to pop down to Coles local and carry—

Josh: Yeah, I reckon, fucking— No, this looks great.

Tommy: No, take that off. What are you robbing?

George: What do you think?

Josh: No, no, no, no, take the hoodie off. Okay.

Mason: Well, the great thing about the hoodie is it zips into the back bit, so you can actually just have a high neck, just zip it in. It's great.

Josh: Now you look like you're part of the Melbourne clique, don't you think?

Tommy: You're part of the podcast, Melbourne podcast clique. Maybe it's just that everybody lives in Melbourne. Like, there's a lot of people, a lot of podcasters that live in Melbourne. There's definitely—

Josh: Isn't that so funny? Because I just think of Melbourne, I just think how pathetic we are. I think they must be in Adelaide or something. If anyone's saying Melbourne click, you've got to be coming from somewhere smaller, right? Like regionally or something like that.

Tommy: Like, yeah, I think that's what happens when you live somewhere. You're like, you're always looking to someone else. Like, I look to Sydney.

Josh: There's more clicks in Sydney in my mind. Like, it was like when I was joking the other day and I did the video of Melbourne, I'm like, New York. Like, that's— I feel like Outspoken are thinking like, one day, like, we're gonna— we'll go— we're gonna go to Melbourne, have our meetings, do our thing, chat to the Melbourne clique, and then, you know, go home.

Tommy: One thing just on the US and, and the scene over there, podcasting, YouTube, whatever it be, America is so big that it loses a bit of that. I think like, I was blown away when I asked Matt D'Avella and we bumped into Jesse, who's a huge— 10 million subscribers on YouTube. And I was chatting to him and I referenced somebody else and he's like, no idea, no idea who that person is. Like, they're over there, it's— everything is so much bigger. So there's— I don't know if there's less of it, but there's less like, it's less insular in some respects, I think.

Josh: Well, think about events here and shit like that. It's like, I think that it probably does become a little bit insular around, like, think about Samsung and think about how many, like, they'll just go around and sponsor every creator. And so there is that, that YouTube click that happens. But I think in Melbourne it's like, how many, how many people can go, like, if you're a PR person and you're trying to fill the, like, a What's the thing called? A tent? What's the Melbourne Cup? What do they do? The, um, fucking marquee. Like, who are you gonna pick? Who are you gonna have? How many Osher Ginsbergs can fit in a— yeah, you know, what's it called?

Tommy: That video is the Australian actors clique.

Josh: Exactly, that's what— yeah, very cliquey. I've never been part of a clique. Is this a click? Yeah, so Bronx Squad, are we cliques anyway?

Tommy: Yeah, what is a clique? What? Yeah, let's go.

Josh: I don't know. Well, the thing is, I think that like part of it was like not to be— I think what they were saying is like not to be bitchy or, you know, but like it's a clique.

Mason: Yeah, we don't be—

Josh: I just feel like it's like it all of you using the phrase a clique is turning it into like is putting a judgement on the group, which is like, it's also strange because like, oh, they had, um, Sarah Holloway on there podcast, and now they're like— I don't know, it feels like from an awareness perspective, I feel like if you are going to be critical— and this is the problem that Shameless have— if you're going to be critical about people, don't expect for them to ever fucking come on your podcast. And so, yeah, whenever we're like doing that, it's like you've, you've got to accept that. So it's, it's quite weird in that regard.

Tommy: But, um, yeah, it's a fast way to awareness is being unaware on a public level because people will call it out if it is, you know. It's— anyway, all right guys, Sevs is looking good. Uh, yeah, I'm warm. I'm gonna go. Um, I'm hungry.

Josh: Clouds have set over George. How you going, George? It's just real—

George: just have a great day, George.

Tommy: We love you, George. Thanks for sticking in there.

Josh: And the, the plant looks great behind it, and I feel like that's—

Mason: Hannah did a great job.

Tommy: Yeah, set dressing.

George: Had a set designed.

Josh: That's beautiful.

George: Yeah, it's great.

Josh: Yeah, awesome. All right, uh, do you know what we should do before we, uh, before we finish up? I'm being selective on which, uh, which admin I pick. Yeah, 10 seconds of admin. Take a screen grab right now of you listening to the show, post it on Instagram as a story, and we'll regram it. What a deal! Everyone do a pose.

Tommy: See you guys, have a good one.