Values & Friendships

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 731.

Tommy: What's happening, guys? What's going on? Happy Saturday. It is a ripper here in Melbourne, like you predicted. Ripper. Yeah, yeah, you know what? And I reckon I predict tomorrow's going to be pretty good too.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: No, just cheque the weather. Yeah, it is going to be great. Uh, we've already— it's— we've been— Bodie and I have been to the dirt jumps. We've, uh, I've I just put Spider-Man on and we run around. It's been fun.

Josh: Spider-Man, as in the music? You're playing music?

Tommy: Oh, he likes— Bodhi has a good taste. Well, not good, but his taste in music includes movie trailer music. It's like real epic, like Batman's.

George: Yeah, yeah, that shit.

Tommy: He loves Hans Zimmer. He just loves a big ballad. It's, um, it's It's kind of cute, but I mean, that was my morning. How are you, Josh?

Josh: I'm feeling better after the almonds. After eating all the chocolate-coated almonds, I felt so sick. But I'm feeling better now.

Tommy: You were sort of sickening. You declined rapidly throughout that episode.

Josh: It was like a nausea, like a motion sick type of thing. And like, it's how I felt when I was drunk the other day, but I'd only had like a big glass of wine. So it wasn't that, like, probably 2 standard drinks, but that shouldn't be enough to make—

Tommy: What do you think it is? Like, you're no stranger to a bit of sugar and a bit of almonds.

Josh: If you eat a whole bag—

Tommy: Is that what it was?

Josh: It was, yeah, I had a whole bag.

Mason: It makes sense, I get it. Yeah.

Josh: And so I was like, that would happen real quick.

Tommy: They're not chips, I guess.

Josh: No, no, they were yum.

Mason: Yeah, they're not a snack.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Well, if you think about it, like dietitians will say, be careful with how many almonds you eat. They don't say about the chocolate-coated almonds, but I'm guessing that works.

Mason: Well, did you have bloating? Because I mean, a lot of almonds causes bloating.

Josh: Oh really, mate? It's hard to tell nowadays. Constantly bloated.

George: Is it?

Tommy: You might know if this is true. Have you heard this that a friend told me? I'm just wanting to cheque in. See if his science is correct, that in, in nature there's nothing that is fat and sugar that is naturally occurring in the one product. So last night you're eating something that's sweet and an almond, and an almond which is consisting of fat, and then all the good, you know, all the naughty food like fatty, like fatty, sugary, like you think about like the, like going in oil that's being fried in fat, you Yeah, and so it's like crack. And I said, because we were talking about drugs and we're talking about then sugar and how it is just a fucking drug, like stinging for it, you know, you get itchy and you need it. Like, there's not much difference between that and just really wanting to get a bag of weed. It's, um, one, one is just legal, the other's not, you know.

Josh: I get that. And so how was it anyway? Was it, was it okay without me?

Tommy: Well, yeah, it was all just a bit confusing because I had to chase you up to see if you were coming, and I don't reckon you would have let me know if you weren't, that you weren't, because— but I know you were in pain, so I was like, oh, he must be real bad if he hasn't—

Josh: No, I sent the, um, playlist to, to Sev's. I didn't realise that Sev's wasn't in the drinks until about 45 minutes later. Yeah, he was easy to show up. And so how did you— yeah, how'd you go? Because I think I saw an Insta storey where you're playing Circle of Life by The Lion King, which was a fresh track that I put in today— like, sorry, yesterday for Friday Night Drinks. So you're putting out the bangers.

George: Yeah, well, Charles did a great job.

Tommy: We've— yeah, we have to say thank you to young Charles, King Charles as I like to call him, from Bathurst, who stepped up to the plate. Uh, tech god, tech god Charles, or King Charles, whichever one you like better. Charles, you can take And yeah, so he was playing it. He's great. I mean, it was a nice dance party.

Mason: Yeah, it's great. Well, I mean, what I appreciate about Charles is he went for dinner and left it going. So it was just his camera and it was just his chair in his bedroom.

Josh: Yeah.

Mason: Now everyone's like, where's Charles?

Josh: It doesn't matter, he's just playing the tunes.

Mason: Exactly. Yeah, no one knew, but he messaged me saying, mate, I'm off for dinner, but I'll just leave it going.

George: But show you, at one point he had—

Josh: you go on, George.

George: At one point he had two cameras, so he had the camera of his bedroom and then he had another screen with just a photo of him. So he was there twice.

Josh: But then, I mean, what I enjoyed also, it does reveal though the lack of need for a DJ when you have a playlist. Like, if you can walk off and have dinner and if it's unaffected, it sort of does, I guess, like the— it does make you question the DJs that are, you know, sort of doing a lot.

Mason: Yeah, what's Grant Smiley for?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, that is what people question DJs that don't don't produce music themselves. Like, so Calvin Harris could do a set of only his songs, whereas most DJs are playing other people's songs as well as theirs. It's, um, yeah, you know, and then it's— yeah, anyway, go Georgie boy.

George: Oh no, I was just going to say that towards the end of the night, another thing I loved about Charles was he was changing his background to whatever song he was playing. So he put like the artist On stage or, you know, Eminem or whatever. It's great.

Josh: Yeah, I feel like he needs a DJ name. I feel like he could become the show DJ.

Mason: Charles says he'll take Tech Charles.

Josh: Tech Charles. I mean, Tech Charles is— Does it have a funny ring to it?

Tommy: Techno Charles. King Charles.

Josh: I woke up though feeling like a coffee this morning. A beautiful day in Melbourne. You sort of want to go out to a café. Have a coffee.

Tommy: You know, you know, I actually started thinking as well as the almonds, I was wondering if it might have been like the caffeine that you hadn't had and maybe you were, you know, switching it out. Were you feeling at all irritable or any anything before you had the almonds?

Josh: Um, did I feel irritable? Uh, oh no, I'm getting over the Friday night drinks. I reckon I'm gonna take a break from it. I think I'm I feel like on a Friday night after doing a week of shows, I sort of like by 4 o'clock after getting used to doing the midday show, I was like, I don't know if I can be fucked with this. And so that was part of it too, is like if you're feeling sick and then you're slightly irritable, I feel like being irritable and having a megaphone, it's a lot of—

George: That was me last week, Josh.

Josh: A lot can go wrong.

George: I get it. Yeah, I guess.

Josh: So anyway, yeah, I was probably, I probably was irritable. And because you're trying to work out—

Tommy: Caffeine though, I'm talking caffeine though, that's all, that was the connection. I asked you, it was irritable before because you hadn't had caffeine.

Josh: I think I was irritable because I had to do Friday night drinks. I don't know. Now maybe, I don't know. What did you think?

Tommy: How do you feel today having no coffee?

Josh: I had chai. I feel good.

Mason: Yeah, that's great.

Tommy: That's good. I guess there is a bit of caffeine. Yeah, he's irritable.

Josh: I know, I literally— no, I didn't know.

Tommy: Georgie boy, do you drink coffee on the weekends? Because I feel like you're just a guy that has it midweek or like during the week, and you're like— you could be one that goes for the whole weekend without it.

George: No, I like going for a walk and getting coffee on the weekend. Haven't had one today. We had a cup of tea, which was lovely. Lovely. Just an English breakfast.

Tommy: Now you're talking Josh's language. What'd you have?

George: Yeah, English breakfast. Just the standard Red Box brand, whatever that one is.

Josh: Sounds fancy.

George: But no, it's probably time for a decent one, to be honest. Oh, I know that brand.

Tommy: I mean, you didn't miss out on too much last night, Josh. Um, George— uh, George— Jordan Michaelides gave me shit about my tattoo, which led to a great reveal from Georgie Boy. Did you know Georgie Boy has a tattoo?

Josh: Uh, no, really? But also there's emotional attachment to the tattoo, so that's also a bit— did you mention the fact of how the tattoo came about?

Tommy: Uh, no, but I just, I just actually made a dig at his grandma, which, yeah, you know, it wasn't really— it was all good. Fair call, fair call. But I appreciate it because if he didn't say it, George wouldn't have revealed that he actually has a tat. And, uh, yeah, Georgie boy, I've actually got two. Tell us about your tattoo. You got two?

Josh: Yeah, got one last night, the one that we were talking about. Oh, this is a nightmare.

Mason: Oh, this is absolute—

Josh: it's a loading sign. George, can you go in?

Mason: George, do a reload.

Josh: I feel like Georgie boy should get a tattoo which is a loading symbol, you know, like just—

Mason: oh, absolutely. Yeah, tech troubles.

Josh: It might be 500 MS for 500 million people online.

George: Yeah, um, I left just as you were saying I feel like George, and then— so what did you say after that?

Josh: I said I think that you should get a, um, a loading symbol as a tattoo.

George: Oh, that's a good idea.

Tommy: Low battery. Yeah, low battery.

Josh: Yeah, but go on. Yeah, what are your tattoos?

George: Uh, so one bar, one bar. It was, um, we're talking about what our favourite movies were, and first reaction for me was Reservoir Dogs, which to be honest, it probably isn't now, but it— I just love the, the idea of Tarantino being a you know, sleeping on someone's couch and then coming up with this idea of Reservoir Dogs and writing it. And then that set him off. So I got a tattoo of Reservoir Dogs when I was 18.

Tommy: Yeah, that's great.

Mason: And JJ, have you seen it?

Tommy: I think you might know the COVID I've like— isn't it red? The cover's red with the silhouettes, the black and white silhouette or something. Anyway, George is gone. He's lost. Yeah, maybe I'm thinking of something.

Mason: Oh no, no, you're right. No, you're right.

Tommy: Am I?

George: So what is it like?

Mason: He's got red.

Josh: So Georgie Boy, where is it on your body?

Tommy: Yeah, we can look at his foot to look at the COVID because it's basically the COVID isn't it? Here we go. George is— he's getting his kit off. I mean, his shoe.

Josh: Yeah.

Mason: Oh my God, here we go.

Tommy: He did this last time. Oh my God, he's—

Josh: oh wow.

Mason: Oh my—

Josh: wow, it's got a really solid fade. Wow, that's the impressive bit, is how they've got that gradient.

Tommy: It was like Sev's face's hair.

Josh: Where did you— where did you go to get it done, George?

George: Um, just some— someone in Byron.

Josh: What did they say? When and how old were you?

George: 18. Yeah, I probably won't be getting any more tattoos. This was like, yeah, I was just young and—

Tommy: you got one young and spur of the moment. Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's on your foot. You didn't hurt unless you got thongs on.

George: Well, yeah, exactly. No one knows I have tattoos.

Mason: Did it hurt your foot?

George: The other one's on my shin. Oh, it hurts so much.

Mason: It looks like a sore place.

George: Well, foot's like meant to be like one of the worst and that was my first one. So, I thought it was going to hurt way more and then when I went and got it, it actually wasn't that bad. And then I had to get it touched up and—

Josh: Did you have to get it touched up? Why'd you have to get it touched up?

George: Yeah, because like because some bits sort of like fell out. Okay. Like the guy's glasses were like falling off.

Josh: So really? So I mean, you care about it enough to sort of be doing maintenance on that. How long? How long between?

George: It was like a week later.

Mason: Was it free?

George: A week later.

Mason: Was it free? Surely it was free.

Josh: Touch-ups?

George: Yeah, I think it surely so. Can't remember.

Mason: Comes under the warranty.

George: I don't know.

Josh: Is this tattoos?

Tommy: I mean, it's like, yeah, the haircut. You get— you don't like your haircut, you take it back in. Have you ever done that? Have you ever gone back and got have your hair sort of redone because it was—

Josh: they fucked it? Definitely not.

Tommy: I did it once.

Josh: Oh, I did it. You're going to the same hairdresser for 30 years or whatever?

George: Yeah.

Tommy: I wonder if it was him. Maybe it was him. Maybe that's why I felt like I could do it. I feel like if you did it to a stranger, they'd be like, you're an asshole. Like, you got no rapport with them other than, you know, 40 minutes in a chair.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, your brand value is around hair, so it makes sense.

Tommy: And so Oh mate, not like—

Josh: And so what, how did they fuck it up?

Tommy: 6 years, not in the last 6 years. I don't know, I think it just wasn't, it was either like, I've had some real doozies where people, other hairdressers have left longer bits or gone too short in one area, like it's just a bit whack. I don't know, what do they say? The difference between a good and bad haircut is 3 weeks. A bad and good haircut is 3 weeks because you get it bad and it grows for 3 weeks and then it's a good.

Josh: The difference was a hat. I mean, that's been my mantra.

George: I'm actually going to get a haircut after the show.

Mason: Really?

George: Really.

Tommy: I'm pumped. Just Cuts?

George: Yeah.

Josh: Where are you going?

George: Where are you going? Nah, Carlton. It's a really good one in Carlton. I can't remember what it's called, but it's just—

Tommy: let me guess—

George: old school barber.

Mason: How much do you pay?

George: You just walk in.

Tommy: And you get a beard.

Josh: $65.

Tommy: Is it a hipster joint or is it legit old school?

George: Oh yeah, it's like old school in, in, um, in what do you call it? Like you can't book, you have to walk in and it's always like a 2-hour wait. But yeah, you get a beer, it's not that expensive, it's like 40 bucks.

Mason: Oh, that's annoying.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, I used to go to this guy named Grant and Grant used to have memorabilia all up and he's like, this is when I— when you say old school barbershop, it is that. It's an old school barber and he's not a young hipster running it, but he used to be so obsessed with golf. And he used to— and all my mates used to go there. Conspiracy Jimmy, Conspiracy Jimmy's brothers, a whole bunch of us. And for, I reckon, 10 years after I stopped going there, he would ask— and my mate found it so funny. It was like we were stuck in time. I used to have a motorised scooter, and he would always ask about me and how's Tommy's motorised scooter. It was almost like he was a robot stuck on repeat, but it just got so far beyond the time, like we'd grown up by then. My mate was still going there. He's like, yeah, how's Tommy? How's his motorised scooter?

Josh: It was like, was he doing gear maybe? I mean, that's funny. That's very funny.

Tommy: It's something you'd write into a sitcom, the hairdresser that asks the same question about one guy.

Josh: But maybe he had those like index cards where maybe he was keeping track of And that was the one thing that he had. He'd never updated it. It's like—

Mason: That's what he's updating his CRM. Just—

Josh: Yeah. Well, Grace's psychologist had miswritten down her brother's name and my name. And so, she kept calling me her brother's name. So, this can happen. Talking about haircuts, I thought like with all the megaphone stuff, Maybe we can quickly do a megaphone, uh, read, but then also at the back of that I want to do an announcement on the megaphone. Here we go.

Tommy: Okay, yeah, yeah, great, go for it, go for it.

Josh: This announcement is brought to you by our megaphone sponsor. Our proud naming sponsor for our megaphone is Shine Hairdressing, Berwick Waters, a boutique salon using nothing but the best original and mineral colours and hair care. The announcement is I want to put the megaphone sponsorship on hold until Monday, until 97 has an official page so we can manage this better. I feel like the current situation with waiting for emails and dealing with PayPal is a clusterfuck.

Tommy: Thank you.

Josh: Great call, great call, great call.

Mason: I agree.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, I think that was part of the irritability, was trying to manage all— like, it was— things were coming in. What am I doing? Camvan? Is it Kate? Is it like, who's managing this? The sponsors, you know?

Tommy: Yeah, the gatekeeper is Mr. 97. Is that what we're saying? Because he's doing the spreadsheet or something. I mean, I threatened at one point to throw it off a balcony and smash it if it all goes out of hand. Like, that's how we end this. We end this whole deal. No, it's paid for itself, JJ.

Josh: Yeah, it's really good.

Tommy: We can smash it now.

Josh: It was free. I'll put a— I mean, can we, um, uh, one of my favourite Gronks is, uh, Gronk Jasnah. You might see that she posts a fair bit on social. She has pirated our logo and created her own the Daily Talk Show mug. Have you, have you seen it, Tej?

Tommy: Yeah, and there's a video on our Facebook group which you can access if you know the answer to who's Queen Gronk and how long have you been listening. Um, easy questions, you can enter on Facebook. But, um, yeah, I saw it in there and I saw the video and she's turning it. I'm like, oh my God, how is that wonky? Like, how is our logo got gone wonky. Do you know how it went wonky?

Josh: I have my theories, but do you know the actual answer?

Tommy: Yeah, Jasna, the absolute legend, giving it her best, took a photo of her hoodie that she bought. So, you know, she had a—

Josh: she calls it—

Tommy: she calls it a sloppy joe. I—

Josh: you call it a—

Tommy: what do you call it? Crew neck. Oh, and the boyfriend style.

Josh: Boyfriend style is big.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: Just, okay, yeah. And so she took a photo of it and then it's like a print onto a mug and the mug's curved and it just, yeah, it's really wonked out. But I mean, 10 points for trying. That is such a good effort.

Josh: Well, Mike Miller said that he reckons it comes under fair use because it's actually a parody of the logo. Mike! Which I think is fair. But mate, it was, can I just say, it was beautiful. Beautiful. Like, going out today, walking, people with their dogs are out. I actually had a dog, yeah, jump up and lick me.

Tommy: Yeah, it's all a bit of almond on you. Did you like it?

Josh: Well, like, the thing is, I feel like it was this, this dog's not doing too good now. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Tommy: What does that mean?

George: The almond?

Mason: And you were sick and the dog's not allowed chocolate, and so it feels— anyway.

Tommy: That's all good.

Josh: Yeah. No, the dog's fine. It was a great moment. And so yeah, no, the dog licked my hand. I was like, oh, this is not like— it was just sort of like, oh, the world. Like, because I am going through the stage of like, man, wonder when the world will end. I mentioned it yesterday, 50 years. Like, surely it's all going to be just looking, just being like, are we in a simulator? Is the world going to like— it almost feels like going—

George: Elon Musk.

Josh: No, I haven't. That's the thing, but I've seen—

Mason: It's actually just Kevin Rose.

Josh: Yeah. No, I reckon it's going out. I don't know if anyone else notices this, but spending, because I've been in the apartment for the most part and going outside, everything feels like I'm in a movie and everything feels like it's hyper-saturated, like all the colours are really green and like the grass is greener, the sky is blue.

Tommy: Are you saying because you haven't been out that much that you're seeing this? It's like, it seems different?

Josh: Yeah, I think so. Like, because we're in a pretty muted house. We've got sort of, I think I got you, George.

George: That joke was about Seb's being colourblind. That's all.

Josh: I love that you've picked up on that. It's never been a thing in the show, Seb's colourblindness. When did you hear it for the first time, George? How is it stuck?

George: I can't remember. I don't know. It's just one of those things that you go, oh, that's interesting. Like, you just don't forget that sort of stuff.

Tommy: We actually have a sign in the office that's the colour that he can't see, and it says on there, Seb's colorblind.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: It's like disappears. You don't see it, Seb, do you?

Josh: No, but are you guys— have you had any experiences of going out in the real world and feeling that difference?

Tommy: Oh, it's feeling the difference of what?

Josh: Sorry, that just like going out and being like, oh, the world feels different, this feels unusual.

Tommy: I mean, yesterday I just walked to the shops to get beers and the more like there is a resurgence in people just being out and about. Saw a guy holding a beer, drinking it just, you know, in the car park. And like, there was just people doing shit that I haven't seen in weeks and weeks and weeks. But, um, I mean, like yesterday I was listening to a podcast walking along, and, and the person on it was talking about how we all fool ourselves into a false sense of safety in our lives, meaning that it's— we're in a hyper-dangerous world. You, you, you could drive to the shops and die. You could walk up your stairs and fall back and die. And there's— we're not living in a, you know, like an existence of like being petrified of all of these things. I mean, some people are, but we all convince ourselves that we're quite safe and you feel like you're good.

Josh: And you're saying we're not?

Tommy: Well, no, we never are. You could like— how—

Josh: I mean, that's pretty dark. I thought I was going to sit there the whole year.

Tommy: Well, that's what I'm saying, but you're You don't consider the fear of driving to the shops and the reality of what could happen. You don't need to. And what I'm saying is, Josh, I entered into that thinking of, oh wow, that is such a true statement where, you know, you most of it— because you don't want to feel unsettled every moment of your waking life thinking about that shit. But yeah, I did enter into it like you're saying, Josh, you entered into it. That's all it was.

Josh: Yeah. What about the— I feel like we had this conversation years ago, like 2 years ago, pushback on negative thinking. So, for instance, I feel like I'm someone who it's like, don't need positivity all the time. Like, you know, there's like the types where it's like, nah, like I'm happy all the time. It's all positive. Like, no, no, no. Like negativity is bad. Where do you think you're on the spectrum, TJ? Because I feel like you were the— you're the guy that always looks at the positive, which I guess is a—

Tommy: Yeah, but I don't like— understanding our reality doesn't have to be negative just because you realise that the only promise when you're born is that you'll die. Like, that is the only— like, it's full on. And it's like, yeah, so this podcast I was listening to, they were saying—

Josh: What was the podcast and who is it?

Tommy: It's Sam Harris. And a woman that's on it, she's— I could listen to her for like, just, I love her voice. She sounds— she's so great. Hang on, I'll tell you.

Josh: What's her voice sound like, American or what's the accent?

Tommy: Yeah, she's American, Caitlin Flanagan. And she's had cancer, so she's had stage 4 cancer and she's talking about her storey that she just wrote. About her experience. She's had cancer for 17 years or something, in and out, and stage 4. And, and, um, she was just talking about this plane crash that happened in America where it was horrid. It was— the plane left from LA and it crashed into the water and died. And they wrote this piece about it, the paper did, and they asked all these different religious sex, what it meant. So they asked Christians what, you know, like they asked a few sort of key people, what does this mean? Like, what can the families take from it? You know, it's like a freak accident. And, um, you know, there's a bunch of stuff. But the, the, the Buddhist who—

Josh: anyone say mechanical issues? Like, surely that could have been—

Tommy: yeah, but it's more about— it's more beyond that. It's more what's the meaning of this? How do we look into this? And the Buddha— and the Buddhist one said, well, all we know is that when we are born, you will die too. Or something around that. Just mean it. But it was just a great moment where it's like not looking too far into the thing that's happened outside of, you know, what does it all mean, what does it all connect to. We're all going to die. And so if you did, you could scare yourself into an existence, you know, where you are thinking about that all the time. But it's not— doesn't really serve us. And so your answer to negativity and how much— I think I'm more affected by negativity that is created where I'm consumed by it versus the negativity of all these, you know, possibilities or things that aren't going on right now.

Josh: What about negativity as a driver, like a driving force? Nah.

George: No.

Josh: Isn't that— Have you watched the Michael Jordan? So, I watched the— Like, have you watched the Michael Jordan series?

Tommy: I've watched the first episode.

George: Yeah.

Josh: Okay. Has anyone watched more than that? Georgie boy? Serbs?

George: No? No, I haven't actually, but I'm heaps keen to watch it. Mum loved it. She said it was great. Yeah.

Josh: I just saw headlines. And so, I saw that he was like— They talk about him having a lot of like holding grudges and things like that. And so like, I wonder where for him that negativity, like how that served him or whether it was just an unnecessary thing.

Tommy: Well, you look at it, so remember when Nick Rewoldt, we asked him when we were filming him, you know, what made you smile on the footy field? And he said, nah, nothing, I was angry, I was angry. I think there's just different drivers for people. Some it's like high level of anxiety. Like, you're— I know Jules Lund is like, he suffers a bit when he's high achieve, you know, trying to achieve at a high level. Like, he, he, he puts so much pressure on himself, and I see it from the outside. And that's a version that has got him and reaped him results. And so Michael Jordan, that version got him a lot of results. He was also extremely talented. Like natural ability. And but yeah, so for me, I— yeah, I don't know if—

Josh: what is the driver then? What do you think is the number one thing that you think about when you're making your decisions?

Tommy: I, I guess it's, it's more, it's more against my, against myself. I'm trying to work this out because I don't necessarily like a heap of pressure. Like, I'm good at putting it on myself.

Josh: And why do we do anything? Like, if you think about all this ISO stuff, surely it's sort of getting us to a point where we're like, okay, if our jobs aren't secure, if our, if, um, our living situation isn't guaranteed, why do we do what we do? Why are we driven to do the things that we do? Why don't we do other things? Why do we work at all?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I mean, some big questions right there. I think it's, um, I've been pretty driven by lately fear, uh, understanding how I'm responding to something. So like I get anxiety or I'm stressed about something, or there's a situation I'm in and I, and I see the response that I'm having, and then how, then, then what after that? And sometimes I don't have the insight to be able to see it that sort of removed because I'm so in it. But I do like understanding why I'm feeling like this, and then how can I— you know, like the— I guess the video thing, the video project has been trying to sort of understand, yeah, why, why I wasn't doing it before, or how I could, you know, just sort of— I'm still trying to work that shit out, but it's like, yeah, I don't know, it's, it's a complex answer. It's a complex question, sorry.

Josh: So the— like, if— so if you like reframe it, so there's the anxiety piece, but then it's like the, um, yeah, there's the broader filter system around, okay, this is the like Do you have a sense of what your internal system is for whether you're going to do something or not do something?

Tommy: Internal? Yeah, because I can't say that I'm doing something. Like, what I know is that I don't like to say that I'm doing something unless I really am going to do it, because then it's—

Josh: what does that mean?

Tommy: I'll be annoyed at myself too much if I don't do it. Like, I want to I feel like I need to follow through with everything I put out there. I don't know if it's right, it's just a— maybe it's just like a value that if someone says they're going to do something, I like it when they do it. When I say I'm going to do something, I like it. I like to follow through and do the thing that I say I'm going to do.

Josh: So if things change, like how— like, so say for instance, if I was like, okay, I'm going to do my photo project, I'm going to do it every single day Which is basically what I said.

Tommy: Doesn't affect me though. Doesn't affect me. What do you mean? In terms of me being affected by you not—

Josh: Oh, no, that's not what I'm saying. So, like, using that as an example, if I had felt that I'm having to do this every single day for the rest of my life or whatever it is, like, of course I'm never going to do it. And so I wonder if the sense of saying, like, I'm comfortable saying something and then things changing because like, I, like, if I only said things that were guaranteed, if I only said, okay, I'm gonna do this, and then, uh, I do something for 6 months and then I learn that it's not serving me, I have like 2 options. I can stop doing it because I don't feel like it's serving me Or I can think I need to continue doing this because I want to be right from what I said 6 months ago. But if we frame it as we do the thing to work out whether the thing serves us, doesn't that mean that we should be more willing to have a crack but then also change our mind?

Tommy: You can change your mind, but you— I, you know, it's I think we're not, we're not looking at an example that is cut like, or is suited to what I've been doing.

Josh: It's more, I just, I wonder about the promise stuff. I wonder about like the, I'm the guy that does the thing that he says he's going to do, whether—

Tommy: I think there's nothing wrong with that as a value.

Josh: I think it's a good value, but I think that if it's also wrapped up in, um, it could also be wrapped up in the fact of just wanting to be right. Like, I saw a, um, I should link to it. I saw a video yesterday where it's a guy talking about, uh, the obsession of being right. He talks about he was in his car and his dad was driving and the person had to give way to him and he wasn't giving way and he nearly like crashed the car. And it's like he would much prefer to slow down and get home safely, and in that moment not be proven right, than to be proven right. No wonder— I think that I do that a lot. I think that I, um, tend to— yeah, like, you do want to be right. Like, you do set out— like, whenever we set out to do anything, if you set out to do a diet, if you were like set out to do a million and one things. You never— you don't want to fail. You want it to be right. But I wonder, um, the right thing's too simplistic for me.

Tommy: Like, it's, it's, it's not— I, I understand it, but I, I feel like someone's tried to sort of simplify something that's very, very nuanced, and just using the term right or wrong is, is not— is probably not there. Because then I just wonder if it's like nuance in within something that you, you start, you know, it's— there's it— what's it— what's sort of the extrapolation of, you know, um, promises?

Josh: It's like, well, so there's, there's a bunch of— so what are your values? So for me it's like, okay, I think there would be people who would say I always do what I say I'm going to do, and so they don't say much, they sort of half-bake it. They don't like, they don't do anything that they could be wrong, uh, that, or they might fuck up, or they might, might fail.

Tommy: But think about that in this, in the sense of being a parent. Trust. If you tell your child, like, these kids know, kids are wanting, it's some kind of safety. Like, if that's anything, it's more just like of a, I know how this is going to play out. Versus right. It's like I'm just of an understanding if I do this, what I've said I'm going to do.

Josh: I guess it's controlling your controllables.

George: So all—

Tommy: yeah, yeah. I think if like, if you're feeling shit about your life and the— and I definitely think it is like when I'm not doing the things that I think are connected to me and my values, I don't feel like I'm you feel unsettled. I think that's when I have felt like a bit of a, uh, you know, a bit of a piece of shit. Like when I'm not— it's like Harp's, Craig Harper, and many people saying living in alignment with your values, you like— that is a, that's a good existence. That's when you sort of, you know, aligned with your internal. And, and, and, and then, you know, people sort of— when I— when there is someone living in alignment for their values, it's it's harmonious, and a lot of the time they are nice to be around.

Josh: Not always, but yeah.

Mason: I—

Josh: it's interesting. What do you think, Georgie boy, like, with what we're talking about?

George: I'm just trying to figure it out for myself. Like, in terms of like drivers, I don't think I've ever used negativity as a driver before. I've never been like, I'm going to do this just to prove them wrong or whatever. It's always been to, um, yeah, it's always been positive. If I want to do like go into a project or whatever, it's, um, it's the driver is the positive feedback and, and people enjoying what I'm doing. And if it's not working, then you have to, you change. I agree with that. I think if you're not getting any enjoyment out of it, there's no shame in changing. But I also agree with Tommy in being like, you want to— you do in a sense want to prove yourself right, that you can commit to this thing. And yeah, I don't know, I think there's a bit of both in there.

Tommy: I don't think there's one, because the right might— so the right, I understand it, it could be the click though of your value your mind, like your values coming together, right?

Josh: And so they're in contrast, I think. Like, can they— I think that because I agree, I'm someone who says they're going to do something and has done it. Like, if you think about the, the Daily Talk Show, it's like the amount of stuff that that took to make that happen with travelling and all that sort of thing. And so it's, I guess it's the commitment to yourself. So for me I've always done— outside of diet, I think diet is a different one because I think there's like, from a food perspective with me, there's a bunch more going on. But I think from like a creative perspective, I've always like, I've felt it out where it's like, okay, I'm finishing up a project or I'm starting this or I'm doing this based on the information I have now. I wonder how much—

Tommy: grow and you change, you can shift, your values can shift over time, and if they don't serve you— but I do know that like doing this thing, this 5 videos, I feel better, like busier but better, and, and more, more internally sort of happy. It's a weird thing, but definitely, yeah. And so that's when I— the driving has to be like chasing that as you draw and being your driver of is, I think, powerful if you can follow that internal compass of how do you have— do something that aligns with your values, because then it can be the best version of you giving to it.

Josh: Yeah, but then also, I guess, like, if you look at what, um, say if we bring our value with that, like, so say if that becomes our value of like, if I do this, if I do that, if I make this promise and see it through, that's where you hold your value, how do we reconcile the shift? Say, like, use, um, Casey Neistat as an example, who did his show— like, he did his daily video stuff for, I don't know how many, 700 and something days or whatever it was. Yeah. How do you think we can reconcile, like, if you get to a point where you're not enjoying, say, the daily video stuff what point is that the dip versus when is that actually a time to be like, oh, it's not serving me now?

Tommy: Yeah, I think it's case by case and how destructive it is and why. I mean, that guy Casey Neistat, he talks about nearly losing his marriage, and it makes sense with how much effort these things take every single day, how how much a lack of presence you would have doing it. I don't know, I think it's, um, something sustainable is better than nothing at all, or, you know, and then sometimes there's time where it requires to go hard for—

Josh: yeah, what's the big leap?

Tommy: That doesn't—

Josh: I wonder, like, so because sustainable— I think like sustainable is very powerful, right? If you can create something that you can sustain then you know that you can do it for a long time. But I wonder how big things happen. Like, how do you take the big— does the sustainable thing manifest into something bigger, or are there moments of doing something like— so say taking the podcast, when we started the podcast, I guess it had a good mix of low expectations of what we thought it was going to do for us, but high expectations that we would continue to do it. And it's sort of the commitment grew as we started crossing it off. But, um, yeah, I wonder about the mind— the mindset stuff. And because I think that part of it too, the friction that I feel, is that you and I are really different in our approaches. And I think that when we're talking sometimes and you're providing feedback to me on how I'm feeling, I take it as a criticism of you're thinking the wrong way. This is a better— here, I'm going to give you a better way of thinking, which I think happens with any team when you have a team and you've got different people. And so what I'm trying to reconcile at the moment is there's probably a bunch of things that I can take from you and that you can take from me. But it is challenging when you have different truths.

Tommy: Yeah, neither are wrong. That's the reality of existing, that everyone has a version of what's true to them. And that's why collaboration is fucking hard. Like, it's— yeah, it's a bizarre thing.

Josh: Well, because you could also say that the— from the outside, like, there's a bunch of things that won't necessarily serve me emotionally, things that don't feel good for me. And so, and so then you would pick up on it and you'd say, hey, that's like, that's actually not served— like, that's, that's not serving your emotional state. But then I think what I find challenging is that it's part of everything. So like, for me, uh, the feeling— like, the, the negative bit is also so intertwined with the positive bit that I don't know how to separate the two. So I don't know how to— so for instance, if it's stop caring what people think, like, uh, fuck what people think, like, you're on your own path. If I stop caring what people think I wouldn't do most of the stuff that I— like, I wouldn't spend an hour and a half on the WhatsApp group. I'd be like, well, like, I'll do the show, I'll perform, I'll do, uh, the 40 minutes or whatever, and then it doesn't matter. So I think that that's the, the hard bit, is how do you— how can you take the positive without allowing the negative to affect?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, but is there a— is there a version of that that's slightly different.

Josh: Well, I think that's what you've— that's what you— your go-to is, which is like, okay, well, why don't you take the good and then just make these slight tweaks?

Tommy: But it is— it's the hard line that you put there. It's either you do a show for 40 minutes and then you're done. And but that's the cutting, that's the severing of any connection to prevent feeling like What's a nuance? Like, for instance, from caring what people think, you know. So it's then— yeah, I don't know, I, I'm just— this is not— and I don't have an answer in that when I ask you, is there another version? Because I mean, the severing of, you know, severing of communication, which would mean—

Josh: well, it's not, it's not severing communication. What I'm saying, but what I'm saying is you have to allow So the, the cutting of things, you know, for— if we think about what my personality is, I don't have, uh, big groups of people. I have my like small close friends, and then that's easy to manage. And I still make friends. I still have like— I have close friends. If you think about like the relationships that we've all built, like, uh, how close I am with Sevs. I didn't know Sevs 2 and a half years ago or whatever, 2 years ago. And so, but the thing is, I think that I can't, um, yeah, I feel personally like I can't, I don't have the capacity to manage many relationships. Whereas I feel like your, one of your strengths is being able to go into a big room and speak to everyone and have a great moment in that thing and then walk away. Whereas I feel, and I think that that's to the conversations you and I have had previously, where it's like when I walk to work, going to the office, I'm on the phone calling 5 or 6 different people, those close people. And so that's, that's all— I feel like that's all connected to that closeness, or the bit in my brain that can't differentiate or disconnect between having the— I think what I struggle with is the acquaintance, potentially.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I've had a heap of acquaintances. I always have felt like I've been able to make, like, not categorize, but I just know where people fit. I know what trust I can put in people. I know— and, and it doesn't mean that I know if they're a trustworthy person, it's more what do What does their— what does our relationship mean if I'm to really dissect it? Where does this person fit in my world and what am I expecting of them? And I feel like I've—

Josh: I think you have low or high expectations of people.

Tommy: Oh, like I'm thinking about a bunch of friends who I wouldn't trust them. I wouldn't tell them anything that, you know, I would never tell them anything, um, that I would need to be kept a secret. But that doesn't make them a bad person. That just makes them a version of a friend that is not that. And then I have those ones that I would, you know, the ride or die bitches. And, you know, Conspiracy Jimmy, Reece, like these people have been in my life for so, so long. My wife, like you guys. And then, you know, I just understand. And so then I— but I don't confuse it all. Like, I don't worry about it all. I just feel like I'm communicating to them in that Do you communicate? But I have different versions of friendships where I, like, I feel like you've got one version which is hot, you know, high, high touch, high, high transparency communication, like honest. It's the version of friendship that you have with Sev and all, you know, like I feel like that's great. But then I see the friendships that I have where I know what I get from them. I don't need, they're not, some of them aren't really open friendships.

Josh: So doesn't that mean that you've got— if I feel like you've got a better armour to be able to work through all of that stuff, whereas I feel like, yeah, the way that I'm communicating—

Tommy: Yeah, I totally get what you're saying.

George: It makes sense.

Tommy: You've got your close homies.

Josh: And so I think that part of it is the friction of if there's a relationship or connection or acquaintance that's frustrating or painful, your approach is like, oh, they don't matter. Like, who gives a shit what this person thinks? Whereas, yeah, for me it's like, okay, I've invested this— I have invested something into this. And so it's a painful process of re-detangling, or whatever you want to call it. And so, but I think that that is why in previous— like, if you look at the history of friendships I've had and things like that, is like, it's like, it is, uh, you know, probably at a time 6 close people that I would be speaking to at least a couple of times a week. Like, Scooter Derek is a good example of that. He's someone that I'll FaceTime you know, every second day, or we're talking about tech stuff or things like that. And so I've gotten a lot from the open communication or willingness just to be like, let's be mates, let's hang out. But I think I struggle with it within the context of a large group.

Tommy: 100%. I mean, it was our friendship from the beginning, right? We were talking all the time. It's why we created this podcast, really. Because we're like 2 hours a day or whatever, phone chats of this kind of stuff about business, life, talking shit, you know. And so it's like, yeah, I know, I get that, I get that.

Josh: It's everyone's different about friendships.

Tommy: Look at your, like, your friendship, you got a tight little group, and little, it's like, but that's perfect for you, that works for you.

Josh: What have you learned? Anything more that you've learned about the friends? Like, I know that like For you, it's like, um, when you have a small group of friends, if you don't see them, it then becomes a problem. Like, if you— or if things change, or if, or if things adjust, it's like, okay, if you're relying on 3 close friends or whatever, then it becomes problematic. What's your take on this stuff?

Mason: Yeah, I mean, yeah, to what you're saying, it is this sort of like, even though you are like so close to them and, and you're best mates with them and they're in that inner circle, it's still a fragile thing because it's like if, if they go, then you've lost all of your friendship. And so yeah, I, I— to the point of like the armour stuff, it's like that's such a vulnerability because you don't have any— like if they're gone, like you're, you're gonna go make new friends. And so, um, no, yeah, I, I've Yeah, I probably feel more fulfilled having, having that tight group of people around me. Uh, and yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just a thing of being active and trying to— I mean, because you get so much out of it, but you want to be involved in that relationship and sort of like grow it a little bit. So yeah, it's— I prefer that inner circle stuff.

Josh: I think so much of it too is like how you like grew up or what the— like, I think for, for me it was like, okay, I never understood when I would start working somewhere and I added everyone on Facebook and they would like— there's a bunch of people who are like, I don't do friends on Facebook. It's like, well, how we— like, I always felt, felt there was weird the people who it's like, oh, I'm going to— we're going to hang out all the time. But you're my workmates. Like, it is weird.

Tommy: Like, the workmate thing is weird. Like, this is— everyone's navigating this, this complexity of out of school. Think about, you know, you're in school because you're forced to be there. I mean, you can leave, but at some point you should stay. But you've got the kids that you grew up with, you've probably got your really close ones, but then there's all those people on the peripheral that are just at the same school. And so then they all drop off, you hold your new, new, your besties that you've had, and then you work, walk into a workplace, and it's a similar version. All these people that feel like you're drinking down the pub on a Friday, or you're just chatting, you know, during the day, or you're working on projects closely, going away on work trips, then it's like a weird thing. Like, I think this is what we've created with our business is I feel like it's actually more of a friend, like we work hard on the friendship part of it as well as the work. But when you're working in a big business, I mean, George, you work in an agency, there's a lot of people in there, and I ask you, what do you think they think about your hump day replays? And we had a joke that they probably are going, oh my God, is that the guy from the editing suite, the quiet one? It's like, yeah, George is a fucking weapon that you didn't realise was, uh, you know, the quiet assassin. But you're not quiet at all. That's, that's the point. But these are people that you're working with. It's interesting, isn't it?

George: I know. Yeah, it's so interesting. Like, that's exactly what I think. I know there's a few people there that are going, oh yeah, I like it, or whatever. Look, you're doing well. But there'll be so many people that just don't get it and go, what, is that that guy from, you know, yeah, The Quiet One? But I love that. I love that sort of, like, I feel like with you guys I can I can do this sort of stuff and it's fun and everyone gets it and the audience are great and that's what I love. But like the friendship thing, yeah, I think I'm— I've always had like quite a fair few friends, but then, but later now it's like, yeah, I've got a tight group that we talk every day and, and, um, you know, you got your tight, your tight friends. Um, I think Hannah— I hope she doesn't mind me saying this, but she's a lot like you, Josh. She, um, she'll have like very close friends, and, and she'll only be friends with people that she can, you know, tell them anything. She doesn't really have any acquaintances or anything like that. She'd rather have the special ones that are super tight. And then only yesterday, one of them said that she was moving back to Byron, so that she was like, you know, devastated. It's like you Oh, you, you don't have any— it's like, ah, it's, it's really super hard to make friends, like good friends.

Tommy: When one leaves, yeah, you can't fast-track it. Like, the 20-year friendship is not the 2-year friendship. Just the time, just the being, like, it's just a different version. Not that it's better or worse, it's just different, has to be different. Amy definitely found that moving to Melbourne had nobody, like had me, but she knew, she knew me fuck all time. It was like a year and a— no, 2 years maybe at that point. And she has like 6 or 7 ride or dies, like besties from primary school, and they just are so close. And then comes to need, need to have acquaintances because that's what they start with and you sort of find your people here. But that really rattled the fuck out of her. And George's—

Josh: George's camera, I think.

Tommy: Hannah unplugged it. She's pissed that he said that. Yeah, but it is. I mean, yeah, it's moving, like moving overseas, or Shepparton was close, so it's— I don't put in that category. Moving to Sydney, I, I did feel like the— you don't have your people. Like, it is important, right? Just to even have that small group, just to— your people. That's probably the best way to say it. Your people. The people.

Josh: Well, I feel like it's also so related, you know, like the psychology stuff. They connect it with your, you know, previous, um— how long's that cup been there for, TJ?

Tommy: I just finished it. It was quite great.

George: It was great.

Josh: Um, the psychologist looks like that. Um, they're talking about like Connected to your childhood stuff. I think that's why I am not good at communicating, or maybe a lot of people aren't, because it feels like it is so wired into us. Like the— this is what, like, how we made friends as kids. Like, I think it's not too dissimilar to how, like, I never liked having to deal with, okay, we're having this big group and we're having this party and it's like, who's getting invited, who's not getting invited, or all that bullshit. And I feel like, I know it seems trivial to bring it back to, um, to school days, but I wonder how much of our makeup and the way that we approached things when we were younger actually become our reality when we're older.

Tommy: I think you've been doing life on your terms from the beginning, like you know, you're a unique kid at school doing your own thing, doing what you wanted. And imagine a kid that grows up that doesn't— that falls into the big friendship groups but doesn't want to be in that, like, wants the close tight ones but hasn't— like, it's you, it's what you do at school. There's fucking packs of kids everywhere, you know. It's like And then you grow up, you're going out and, you know, like, it is more of that. And so you could actually— you could accidentally be in it and be feeling like the workmate.

Josh: Like, I definitely— at, uh, like, workplaces, like, with the— like, on the Friday night drink thing, I think that part of it is, uh, you go to a pub and everyone's hanging out. And my main thing is, like, I'm texting Bree being like, hey, I'll be home in X amount of time. And I do think, I'm like, everyone here has like families, have partners, they have like— and I don't know whether that's a unique experience for me, but like I would always be like, in 5 minutes, like just to be social, just to be like, hey, I don't fucking hate everyone, I just don't want to be here, and then I'd fuck off. But how much have you like TJ, have you ever had that relationship or connections outside of your marriage or whatever where it's like, I'm gonna go hang out with my mates, uh, that, that isn't connected to what my— Yeah, like to Amy. Like, I guess like it's that thing of like, because I can see that it can be healthy where it's like, oh, like I'm gonna go hang out with this group or whatever. And even we, um, yeah, Abby, who we filmed, like, she talks— she was talking about how, um, she'll go to like an event and she was like, she thought it was a bit pathetic that like you had to bring your part— like, your partner has to be at every single fucking thing that you're at.

Tommy: I've got some friendships that I actually just like one-on-one time. Like, I don't— it's not that I don't want Amy to come, it's that I actually just for some reason connecting with this person. Like, I don't know, we just, we just love connecting, or it's training or something, you know, just getting in deep conversation together. I don't know. So that's fine. It doesn't always have to be a team sport, I guess.

Josh: Yeah, I know. I just feel it's all very, um, consuming.

George: I was like literally just talking to, um, Chloe before the show, and she was saying that her boyfriend, it's his birthday coming up, and he's like, I hope that the restrictions aren't lifted by that time because I don't want to have to deal with the pressure of picking who's going to come. He'd rather just hang out with the family and stuff.

Josh: Yeah, disaster.

George: If it's like, oh, 10 people can come over, it's like, oh, so annoying. Friend's gonna be pissed off because they, they didn't get the— didn't make the cut.

Tommy: That's great, just 5 people, early night. Yeah, no, I love it. Well, happy Saturday.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. I'm off to play Monopoly.

Mason: Uh, really?

Josh: 1 o'clock. Yeah, exciting. I might, I might do a screen grab, but also on the screen grab thing, I've, I've emailed— also I DM'd Cam Van, and so I am going to be doing the tile on my—

Tommy: great—

Josh: uh, Instagram, my personal Instagram.

Tommy: So yeah, also as you text him, add the $500 offering in there.

Josh: Oh yeah, definitely.

Tommy: First person to take out a $500 megaphone naming rights sponsor gets themselves a video that I'll be creating as part of my weekly daily videos.

Josh: It's a good deal. 10 seconds of admin. Did you know you can actually subscribe? It's a podcast. You can do it and also give us a review at Apple Podcasts. Thank you. All right, on that note, we'll see you, uh, see you tomorrow on Sunday, guys.

George: Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.