Shane Jacobson On Australian Film, Family & Mental Health

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 693, and joining us today, Shane Jacobson.

Tommy: Welcome to the show, mate.

Shane: Thank you. How we doing, mate?

Tommy: I've got my missus cup. Uh, I'm really naughty. My wife's out, I do what I want.

Shane: Ironically, we both— this is not planned— we both have cups with crowns on them. Mine says King of dad jokes, and I don't think that's a compliment.

Josh: What's your favourite dad joke at the moment, Shane?

Shane: Look, my favourite one at the moment is two snakes sliding through the grass together, and one of them says, "Pfft, are we poisonous?" And the other one goes, "I don't know, why?" And he goes, "Just think about it, are we poisonous?" And he said, "No, we're not, why?" And he goes, "Oh, thank God for that." He goes, why? He goes, I just bit me tongue. Love it.

Josh: It's good.

Tommy: It's so good. I find with— sorry, go on, Shane.

Shane: Well, I was just going to say, I just want to have a quick chat about dad jokes for a moment because I think dad jokes have been getting a really bad rap for way too long. And I'll tell you why I have an issue with it is because everyone says, that's a dad joke. And I have to explain, yeah, because I have 4 children and they're 14, 10, 8, and 5.

Josh: And that's their actual names because I couldn't be arsed naming them.

Shane: They're children, and I have better jokes than the one about the snake, but I just can't say to my children, okay, there's this nun and a goat. If anyone can think of a joke that ends with that— actually, me and Stephen Curry used to play a game which was you had to come up with a punchline for a joke that doesn't exist. And then see if anyone can— and we never actually came up with the jokes, but we just loved the punchlines. And our favourite one was, "Yeah, well, it was a goat when I gave it to you." Yeah, I love that.

Tommy: Do you think dad jokes— I've kind of, I've tried to think of them in the moment. I mean, you're a professional comedian, I'm just a gronk, but I find it hard to pull on dad jokes, but somehow I find them in the moment. I think that's the essence of a dad joke, right? A true dad that doesn't know that he's being a dad and dad joking in the moment?

Shane: Well, the reason they come easily is that— and the reason people have an issue with them, I guess, is because they're low-hanging fruit. Like, it's the first thought that comes to your mind, or the easiest gag you can come up with is a dad joke. And there are some that are kind of better dad jokes, you know, like, you know, the babushka dolls. You know those babushka dolls? I don't like them. Do you know why? Why? They're too full of themselves. So that actually is a joke that— See, there you go. That's got a little punchline in it. But for the most part, you know, dad jokes are the simplest, low-hanging fruit. But again, it's because it's normally said around children where you can't be doing the jokes you want to do. I mean, I do, and as a result, my kids get expelled a lot.

Tommy: But they're— I think they're clever. Like, I think they're looking at what people are observing in the moment. And so, and what do you think? Do you think their dad jokes are clever even though they are first thought?

Shane: No, they're not. They're not clever. They're safe fodder. That's all it is.

Tommy: It's a real dad thing to say, wasn't it?

Shane: Sorry. It's just, you don't want to get, you don't want to have docs turn up at your front door going, we believe you told the one goat joke to your 4-year-old. I'm not sure if anyone knows that joke.

Josh: Do you like small talk, Shane?

Shane: I've built a career on it. Uneducated, unfactual small talk. Is that MCing?

Josh: Because I feel like that's, like you've done so much MCing and speaking. Is that a lot of it?

Shane: I think so. Number one, they give you, you know, if you're doing an awards night and they're not always as much fun For anyone really, as they say, there's only one thing better than an awards night and that's the end of one. The thing that's exciting for anyone there is people who are genuinely in with a chance of winning an award get to dress up and not everyone gets the joy of going to a nice ballroom dressed up with their wife or partner or friends. Usually, the drink and food is all free, the food and bev. They're up for a few drinks, they get a nice meal and they're out with a whole bunch of friends and they might win award. The second, and I always get asked at awards nights and I quite often joke, I always get asked, or if not always, often enough, to mention the fact that just by being there at the awards night and being a nominee, you're all in fact winners. And I always say, that's bullshit. Because in a minute, we're about to find out exactly who won. And if your name doesn't get mentioned, you've absolutely lost this sucker because you just weren't good enough and you've got a year to get your shit together. Um, so that— but the truth is the room starts usually pretty good. They, one, have more alcohol, and that obviously increases their volume. And then after that, once they've realised they have or haven't won, either way, if they've won, they've got something to celebrate and they don't have to listen anymore. And if they haven't, they've got something to commiserate. And either way, they're drinking and they're making more noise. So it actually changes through the night. You start just formalities, thank everyone for coming, it's great to be here, let's hear from the general manager, let's hear from the CEO, couple of words from our sponsors, gotta thank our sponsors, who without we couldn't do tonight. They're all exactly the same, these events, or near enough to. And then after that, it becomes crack a few jokes in between the awards, and then after that, it becomes a fistfight of words in an attempt to capture their attention. And by the end, it's the LA riots of '92.

Josh: I'm hoping you can make me feel better. So yesterday we had our accountant on the show giving us sort of tips on business and finance. And when I intro'd him, I panicked. And in the moment I said the wrong business name. I said a completely different business name that he was from. I was hoping that maybe given that you're a professional, maybe throughout your career you've had an absolute massive fuck-up that you could share to make me feel better based on saying something you shouldn't have said as an MC.

Shane: No, never happened. No, that's, that's a lie right there. So, oh, look, we've all done it, but you don't have to feel as bad because you only did it to an accountant. And as we know, they they use their personality as a contraceptive. That's the honesty. There you go. There's one of the honesty.

Josh: We actually have a really hot and likeable accountant. It's a rare breed. He's actually more charming than us. It's pretty annoying.

Shane: There you go. I'm not here to judge or qualify or quantify whether my accountant is hot or not. That was my next question.

Josh: It's a weird muscle to flex that thought.

Shane: I'll tell you some of them in no particular order, although they do tend to come out in order of the ones that are most memorable, therefore probably the worst. Stuff-ups, people I've forgotten to thank. Here's the one. When I won an AFI Award for the film Kenny, I did a film called Kenny, which is like 14, 15 years ago now, I got up on stage. Now, I thanked everyone, the people that wrote the music, um, people who, uh, you know, came and drove a truck for 15 minutes. The only people I forgot to thank was the investor that paid for the entire film. Uh, just, just omitted Glenn Pruska from Splashdown, the company in fact that gave us full access to their company for 2 years, and, and the film was about the company, and he paid for the whole film. Didn't thank him. Didn't think that— I didn't think that through. It's just the time got away and I had that nervous moment where I'm like, I think I've spoken too long, which is not a thought I often have, but on this day I did. And then, um, the only other person I didn't thank, which probably doesn't matter I suppose, it's just my brother who directed and wrote the film with me and produced it, who was the creative genius behind the entire existence, uh, of Kenny. So there's that. There's one, Josh. Um, in the film Kenny, in the credits to the film Kenny, My best mate's father, who tragically we only— I'm going to mention his name because we only lost him a few weeks ago, Des Lawton, who was like another father to me. And he works for a company called Show FX, and they did all the pyro for the film for free. Their competitor back in the day, I'm not sure how severe or existent that competitive battle between them is these days, but they had a company called AV FX, and I have no idea why. But when I was writing all the credits out to give to my brother to include in the film, I listed their name in the credits. And I was sitting at the premiere with all the people from Show Effects.

Josh: That's worse.

Shane: And as I'm sitting there, it went past on the— as you know, you put them in the credits, they're that small on a television, they're as thick as your finger. On a movie screen, when you're sitting down the front, that word is like 20 feet wide. And as the letters AV Effects go past, I'm like, oh, fuck! And it never occurred to me until it went past me, and I'm like, oh, shit! And I could hear, uh, from behind me. What do you do?

Tommy: Are you someone to sort of lean into that and have the hard conversation or apologise instantly?

Josh: What do you do?

Shane: Like all of us being human, it's a mixture of all of them. You overcompensate, you talk about it like for way too long, you stutter, you never start the sentence the way it should be. You just go, "Look," you know, you should never start a sentence with "look" because "look" means, it means, "I don't fucking care what you think, this is what happened." And I went, "Look," I still remember going, "Look," And that just sounded like, "You bet, you have to forgive me. I don't care what you think." It was just, it was so bad. And you know what made it worse is they were so okay about it, which of course made me feel worse. So no, I reacted terribly and mentioned it every time I saw them until they said, "You have to stop talking about it because we don't think about it until every time we see you when you bring it up." Yeah.

Tommy: Hey Shane, we've talked about a few things. MCing, cinemas, these things, uh, not happening at the moment. How has, how has what's going on at the moment affected your corner of the world and, and the work you do day to day?

Shane: Uh, it's affected it in a couple of small ways. Um, I no longer have a job. Um, my income has been reduced, uh, slightly by 100%.

Tommy: It's not funny, but it's just how you say it.

Shane: It's okay. My children now have to stare at an unemployed bum in their house. I was a bum when I was employed. It's just now I'm an unemployed bum. No, look, it's obviously ground to a halt. Having said that, there's things I'm working on, which is a documentary on the collapse of the West Gate Bridge, which at the moment I'm self-funding. It's interesting when there's no funds coming in.

Josh: Happy birthday, because you turned 50 last month. And so, it was 50 years ago that the Westgate Bridge collapse happened?

Shane: Yeah, 15th of October this year will be its 50th anniversary. And for those that don't know, it was the largest and still is the largest industrial accident ever to have happened in Australia. And 35 men on that day lost their lives in an instant. And so, yeah, so it's a thing that I've been passionate about commemorating. A lot of people— number one, I'm from the western suburbs of Melbourne. It was a working-class and a migrant trophy when that was being built, literally, because the people who build cities are the working class. And I've just always had this thing that whenever I mentioned the West Gate Bridge, I just always assumed— I've always known it was the year that I was born was the same year that so many died. Again, being from the Western Suburbs, this West Gate Bridge that linked the working-class Western Suburbs with more affluent Eastern Suburbs, this thing was like the joining of the working class, the white-collar and the blue-collar workers. I always saw it as a monument of great loss, but also a great achievement for the working class. I would mention it a bit because I had a mate who once said, and I don't even know why I've always had this thing about the West Gate Bridge, but he said, "Oh, the Story Bridge in Brisbane is as big as it." I said, "Oh." The Tower Bridge he was talking about. I said, "No." 'No, it's not.' He said, 'I think you'll find it's bigger than the West Gate.' And I said, 'No, no, it's not.' And he said, 'Well, do you want to make a bet?' And I said, 'Oh yeah, what do you want to bet?' He said, 'Oh, slab of beer.' I said, 'Yeah, all right, we'll go a slab of beer.' So I won that bet by a kilometer. So see, it's a good bridge. So it won me a slab of beer, and I've never— I've felt like I've owed the bridge something ever since. But anyway, every time I would mention the West Gate Bridge, for whatever reason, over not all the time, but periodically over 50 years, people would say, "Oh, what was that? I didn't know it fell." Or, "That's the one with the car hanging off the end." I'd go, "No, that was the one in Tassie." And I was kind of amazed how many people weren't really aware of the collapse of the West Gate Bridge. So anyway, I'm still doing a documentary on that. But to go back to your question about how much it's affected me, yeah, the entire industry has literally had the handbrake pulled on without us sort of being aware. Of course, we're all aware of what's going on with the coronavirus. But yeah, the handbrake got pulled on pretty quick. So anything I do for the most part involves dragging a crowd there. And of course that's the thing we can't do. So, but the thing that there's, as you know, a lot of people turn to entertainers in times of tragedy. So, and now is no different. It's just the difference is we're in the tragedy that we're a part of trying to make people feel good about. But the thing is, I just don't feel I can complain because there are so many people, so many people in exactly the same position who aren't entertainers. So, I mean, we've heard it a million times, we're all in this together. And it is true. It's just that we're all in something together it's quite shit-ass.

Tommy: Um, so when, um, when you were starting out, like, I think about a friend of mine who was living in LA. He just went back to do another sort of stint there at pushing for a show that he's trying to get up, and he's since moved back, which like puts a big full stop in the current journey to try and make it, right?

Shane: Yeah.

Tommy: You know, thinking about all the people that, uh, you know, vying to do what you've done What about you in the early days? What do you think you would have done in a time like this as a young entertainer?

Shane: Oh, look, I'm a little bit more nuts and bolts, I guess. I've always been— I've had another life, a few other lives. Like, I've actually in the last 5 weeks started up a transport and logistics company with some of the trucks I've got. So instead of waiting tables, I was a lighting— so I was a lighting designer, a lighting operator. I ran a lighting company. I was national general manager for a lighting company. For 13 years. So, you know, I put lighting crew out on tours with Tina Arena, and I worked on— I was a pyrotechnician for Guns N' Roses and Bon Jovi and AC/DC and all that. So I had a book called The Long Road to Overnight Success because I worked so many jobs where I literally, uh, so whenever they're— I kind of always have to work on that kind of personality, you know. Even my wife laughed at me recently when I— before BC, before corona, um, I said, you know, things will calm down one day, it'll get quieter, and she laughed said, "Oh, sweetheart, that's never gonna happen with you. You just won't let it happen." I've loved being busy doing lots of things. So even when acting didn't happen, it wasn't like I was the person that sat around going, "Oh, bugger, I can't act." I would just do other things, which is produce or write or develop. Even now I'm developing stuff that will happen once the world's allowed to catch up close to other humans again. So to answer your question, I instantly just find something else to do 'cause I have to be busy. But that may not help anyone listening who goes, "Well, what am I supposed to do?" But now is a good chance to think of expanding your knowledge base of entertainment. So there are online courses, you know, get online and Google what is a line producer versus a producer, you know, how do you put together a film budget, or, you know, watch other performances, watch online acting classes, start to write your own material, have a go at writing, read other scripts and have a look at how they formulate them. So I see downtime as time to pick something else up. You know, what do they say? Don't— make the time count, don't count the time as it goes by, you know. So that's how I would do it.

Josh: Yeah, on the lighting technician stuff, have you seen on YouTube the video of you from 1994 as the sales manager and lighting technician at Premier Lighting?

Shane: You're going to say with my mullet, aren't you, Josh? Yes.

Josh: I haven't put it on there because of copyright, but guys, you've got to Search Shane Jacobson 1984 into YouTube.

Shane: I don't think it can be done for copyright because I did that gig for nothing and it keeps turning up. It was free government. Yeah, it was a government training thing.

Josh: Well, it's great because you look so different, but you've got the exact same voice. It's actually a beautiful piece of art. I loved it. I watched it last night.

Shane: That was, yeah, that was before I could afford to eat properly, so it looked great.

Josh: But I think, like, I mean, it's a good point in regards to you have done the whole crew stuff, the, like, you've worked all those different roles. Obviously with everything that's happening and what the government's sort of providing, there is that missed bit within entertainment. Is there an easy way to get around, get around that stuff? Like, for people who go from doing one TV show to another? Is there a good solution?

Shane: Absolutely not. Yeah, there's, um, entertainment. I can't help but compare it to sport quite often, um, only because it's an easier analogy, which is it— so often people do say, you know, I've got a son or a daughter or a friend who wants to be an actor, which they do. And it's similar to if someone says, I've got a son or a daughter who wants to play professional golf or be a professional footballer or soccer player or netball player, whatever it might be? The answer is always the same. Motorcar racing is the same. You just have to do it over and over and over and over and over. To act naturally in front of a camera is a very unnatural act. If it was football, for instance, just to pick a sport, everyone says, "What can my son do to get into a professional team? And the answer is, if they're not out in a field kicking a ball every single day, handballing with both hands, kicking with both feet, and you know, everyone's heard the Don Bradman storeys of he was a great batsman because he used to hit a golf ball against the corrugated metal tank with a stump. So by the time someone bowled a massive cricket ball at him when he had a whole bat in his hand, he couldn't help but hit it. So that's it. There's no— everyone goes, what's the secret? You go, well, that's it. There's no secret. You just have to— you gotta— and everyone goes, well, what sort of performances should I be doing?

Tommy: And the answer is, Everything.

Shane: Get up and busk.

Josh: Is there any stability in it or do you just have to accept the fact that it is a mix?

Shane: Yeah, it's no stability. It's like wanting to be a famous painter. You have to paint, just paint and paint and paint and no one's gonna pay you for those paintings for a long while until they start to get good. But that's why you better love it. And that's the same as sport. You can train for 20 years to get into an AFL team and the first day you go out, they're getting off to the ground and they can snap your Achilles and you're off the field again for a year. Yeah, so it's not— if you're looking for stability, maybe drive through the town of entertainment and keep going to proper career.

Josh: If you drive a truck in entertainment, you will get mentioned in your speech.

Shane: So yeah, well, come on, come and work for me with FTA Transport Logistics.

Tommy: I think, you know, speaking with lots of people and hearing different stories, there's always the part of the storey that is the pain. So you mentioned an artist, and it could be the point where they're feeling so much pain about not having achieved or left their little studio, and that's when it starts to turn. In your career, I mean, has there— have you felt that? Have you felt like, God, this isn't going anywhere? And it's been in that moment where you've found the gold, which is very annoying because it's painful, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: Well, I was, I was 36 until I had the thing that people remembered me for. And I'd been trying, you know, every week before that. So, you know, I started performing at 8. Actually, it was quarter past 8. No, it's a very bad gig. So around about 8 was when I actually started performing. And it took me, you know, until I was 36 until people started to— like I said, until I was considered an actor or even remotely considered an actor. But that's why I did amateur theatre for 13 years and sang in bands and did stand-up and all that kind of stuff and did warm-up for TV stations. The thing is, you have to love it. You really do. Like racing car drivers, you know, again, I always go back to sport. I mean, they love driving a car. Their dream is to do their hobby professionally. If people are going into acting just to give acting a crack, it's going to be a hard journey. But standing up in front of an audience and getting paid or not getting paid, you enjoy it the same. I've— I love doing amateur theater. I loved it and, and don't have more fun now being paid to do it. So you're right, was there a moment? There's not a singular moment, but there was a billion moments when you're like, man, I so wish I could do this full-time. And, you know, I used to watch, you know, I used to want to be able to go on the Don Lane Show when I was a kid and, and think, gosh, you know, I wish I was able to go on Hey Hey It's Saturday, you know, watch Shane Bourne and Maury Field, bloody Maury Field and Shane Bourne. And just think, you know, imagine if I could get to the point that I could go on TV and tell jokes, how cool would that be? You know, so it was just a collection of a million moments of wanting to keep doing whatever it took to get there. But I've always said you have to love the journey. If you're only focused on the destination, yeah, you know, being on a plane going to a holiday, if you're going to Paris for a holiday, I mean, everyone's excited the whole way on that flight. Have a champagne and all, they're strapped to a chair, "We're going to Paris!" because they're excited about what it might be. So I always say, if you can enjoy that time on the plane as well as when you get to Paris, you're going to enjoy 2 more days of a 2-week holiday, you know. So you've got to enjoy the process, I think.

Josh: You're a rev head, Shane. Holden obviously announced their big news of shutting the doors. Is it the end of the year or when's that actually officially happening?

Shane: Well, it's kind of been happening for years depending on how you feel about it. So the name Holden will cease to exist as a badge, but as you know, they stopped manufacturing Holdens a while ago. You know, it's been over a year. So for diehard fans, um, so for anyone who doesn't care about motoring, I've always— you can go to music for this one, is my analogy, or sport. So yes, they have been manufacturing Western Bulldogs jumpers for a while, but the team hasn't run out on the field for over a year and a half with if you, as a Holden analogy. But I've always said, the people who don't get, um, what, why motoring fans are so, you know, kind of devastated, if you will, because it is, it is devastation for motoring fans. That imagine if you've got, you know, one music fans, one day when the last Beatle has passed away and you realise you can go and listen to their old albums but you can never see them or hear them live again. That's it. Imagine for football fans if they said, "Oh, you can still run around in a jumper that you purchased for Collingwood 5 years ago, but the team doesn't exist anymore. They're making no more new jumpers and you can never see a new Collingwood team walk out on the field." People would go, "Oh, so that's what happened." Yes, Holdens are still on the road and I've got quite a few old ones. I collect old cars. Having said that, I've been blamed for the collapse of Holden because my wife, as a surprise, for my 50th, brought me a ZD Fairlane 500, which was a car that turned 50 this year, as do I. And it's a Ford that I've always loved. And she purchased me that as a surprise, and it got delivered. And a week and a half later, Holden announced they were no longer going to make— well, no longer exist. And my friends said, you brought one Ford? I'm to blame, apparently. That's it. I'm Mazda'd.

Josh: What sort of cars? Like, so first of all, I want to know what cars you have, but second of all then, what licences you have, because I remember chatting to you and you named all the different types of licences you have.

Shane: You have a very good memory, Josh. This is the problem when you got friends like Josh, he remembers everything you say. Oh, well, just while we're talking about stuff that you remember that people say, do you remember where I buried that body? From that night we had.

Josh: Yeah, I think it was, it was under the Westgate, wasn't it?

Shane: Yeah, everything goes. Hence the fact it's on my radar. So licenses. Yeah, so I've got a, I've got a motorbike, I've got car, I've got bus, I've got semi license. So that's, you drive heavy rigid and articulated semis, forklifts, scissor lifts, lifts, jet ski, boat. I think that's them.

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: And you've got—

Josh: then you've also got your pyrotechnics license.

Shane: I have the ability to blow things up, which the licencing is a separate part of. One is the permission to do so and one is the passion to want to blow things up. Yeah. So I did that. I had that for a while. That's all probably lapsed now, the pyro stuff. But cars, yeah, I've got a— so EH Holden has always been my dream car. So I've got a 1964 EH Holden. I did a film with Paul Hogan called Charlie and Boots, and in that film was a HJ Kingswood that I purchased after we finished filming that. So that's been restored and lives at the Holden Museum in Echuca. I've got a HQ ute that's been restored, and I've got a Morris 1100, which is for my wife. It's being restored at the moment, the ZD Fairlane. And then I've got my daily drives in it. I've got a Toyota Land Cruiser ute. Just because you've got to have a Land Cruiser ute.

Tommy: Yeah, these cars are actual— actually functional. Maybe you might have an insight, but I used to live in Shepparton and you drive, you know, through the sort of country towns, you know, around, and it almost came hand in hand to have a paddock and a fuckload of cars that are broken and in the paddock. For one, what are they doing in there and why are people Why are people getting so many broken cars in the paddock?

Shane: I'm with you. It doesn't quite make sense. All of mine do run and as soon as I get them— it'd be like having a fridge full of food and not eating it. I don't get it. Everything comes back eventually to a food analogy, you'll find. I give up on sport and I always end up back at food. Mine all work. A lot of people used to do it because they get them because they go, "I'm going to fix that car one day," and then that would cost money so they wouldn't do it. Then someone else would go, "I've got this other car I can get for $300." you go, oh yeah, I'll grab that, I'll fix that one day. You just don't. Some people do it because they want to keep them for parts. I'm partly guilty. Every time offers me— anytime someone offers me a part of something that's a car that I've got, you can't help but go, maybe I do need a spare set of rims. And you think at the point you've damaged all 4 of your rims, you've probably ridden the car off. You probably don't. So, uh, yeah, but I look— you do have panic bombs. I've actually also got a Commodore ute V8 that I have as a rally car. So that I do have a few spare bits for that because that, that's probably going to go wrong because I do a bit of rallying as well and that going through trees tends to go bad at some point.

Josh: Do you think that you're good at finishing? What are you going to say, TJ?

Tommy: Uh, have you still got your bus, the big bus you were driving around?

Shane: I do have, I do have a bus, which is a, you know, haven't you got one? I thought everyone had a bus. Yeah, now I've got 4 trucks, so that's, yeah, that's getting— 4 trucks and 4 refrigerated delivery vans.

Josh: What was the thinking behind the trucks quickly? Like, are you someone to buy the trucks and then work out the business model, or did you have the business model first?

Shane: Yes and no. So yes to half of that and yes to the other half, being that I have a company called Film Trucks Australia. It's a big commercial kitchen in the back of a truck that does catering for film and TV. So, you know, things like Neighbours and things like that. And even down to feeding Katy Perry's crew when she played at Brighton. Our truck was used to— the chef for Elton John used it to cook for him. And then the crew for Queen were then fed by my truck. So, it turns up to locations with this huge big kitchen in the back of it. And then I have a green room truck, which is actors can use that to sit in. It has a toilet and a shower and a couch and a little desk there for them to read their scripts on and stuff. So I had those two trucks, and then when coronavirus hit, I had— I have a mate, Dave Pittman, who has a trucking company, and we had two other— he has quite a few trucks, but we had two trucks sitting there that we were going to sell or convert into maybe green rooms or something else. And then when coronavirus hit, we realised rather than change them, they are a load-carrying truck. They're 26.5-tonne 16-pallet Tautliners. There you go. So, um, so we, uh, we've got those on the road now. And but that beats the— so the other bits were have an idea and then buy the trucks. And now with those other trucks, I've got those, just got them registered in the last few weeks, and that we're now trying to build, expand a business with them. So half of them had a plan and the other one, it's— so one was the was the chicken first and the other one was the egg first.

Tommy: Well, I mean, it sounds pretty entrepreneurial in terms of business sense. How have you taken an entrepreneurial business approach to your career in entertainment?

Shane: I probably always have. One thing I've known— I've been lucky to have a brother, and still have a brother, who's, you know, a director. He's a writer, he's a producer. So I've always known that entertainment is an industry. And the one thing that I've also always known is that it's called show business, and business is a far bigger word than show because shows will show, but the business is what will kind of help you in the end, I think. So I've always liked— so I produce as well, which I get a kick out of. I've always liked the running of an event. So I used to be an event manager as well, and I did site management for U2 and used to build events. So I used to design the lighting, sound, security plans. I used to come up with security plans for security companies for at a major event, and then design the stage and the power and power distribution and all that kind of stuff. And I've always loved that. I love the, you know, I love, you know, it's kind of, if you like Lego, it's kind of an extension of that in my mind, like building big events and then packing them up. So I've always loved the back end of both sides of the lens and both sides of the curtain. And I've been a venue manager at the Palais Theatre. I was the house tech there, and, and that's where I learned all my lighting and sound skills. So I've loved the, the building of something, the putting it together and pulling it apart. So, so does that make me entrepreneurial? I don't know, but I've always known the business side of it, understanding, truly understanding, if you're going to get a contract contract to read as an actor. It's nice to know what that contract means. And when I turn up, the thing that I— and, you know, if anyone listening to this and watching this has something to take away from this, I'll tell you something I figured out a really long while ago, which was that people are so interested to tell you what they know. And if they're a mechanic and you go, how does an engine work? If you meet anyone when you go to a wedding or a mate's place or, you know, a friend of yours has a new boyfriend or girlfriend or a new partner, and, and you go, what do you do? And they go, I'm a mechanic. If you say to them, how does an engine work? They'll tell you because they're about— they'll be really happy to share their knowledge. And honestly, I think 8 out of 10 people would do it. In the olden days, you know, in some ways people might, you know, might go— if you— someone might go, I'm not telling you that, or don't be stupid. But honestly, I reckon it's it's worth continuing to ask those questions because if you go up to a lighting guy in a theatre, if you're in a theatre as an actor and you stand beside one of the lighting crew and go, "What does that light do?" They'll tell you. They will tell you. I spent years driving people mad with questions and in the end, I became a lighting designer. There's no course for it. In fact, in the end, I became a lecturer at a university for a short stint on entertainment lighting. I'd never done a course myself and I'm standing there lecturing it. But it was because I just asked so many questions, you know. Peter Brock didn't go to race driver school. He just drove a car around a paddock and asked people questions about cars and learnt on the fly until he got great at it.

Josh: What's a new skill that you've picked up recently, Shane?

Shane: Oh, what's a new skill? Oh, well, this last week we planted a veggie garden. So me and my wife have been online and looking at when you plant certain vegetables. And so I've built a rather large veggie garden. I'm now finding out about that. And you're supposed to build a net over them so that the birds don't get to them. But what they hadn't warned us about is maybe one of our 3 dogs might find the veggie garden interesting. And they're bigger than a bird.

Tommy: Just sniffing and digging. What annoying—

Shane: Because we put this thing called 3-Way Mix, which is a really good soil mix, which it has some manure in it. In it. Not mine yet, but someone's. I imagine it's animals. And of course, the smell was pretty enticing to our— we've got, we always have, I don't know why we have to have a lot of dogs, we've got, you know, 3 dogs. And our youngest dog, which is only a pup, it's only about 3 months old, just went, wow, that smells amazing. We turned around and he was running all over the thing and digging because it smelled like there was something alive in there. But there wasn't. There dead humans or dead animal species in it. Not a dead animal species.

Tommy: You've, um, we learned the other day that, um, potatoes come as a potato and you plant the potato. I didn't know that. Seb, have you got your potatoes yet? We've got the potatoes, we haven't planted them yet.

Josh: No. Okay, so why are you still gonna just eat them eventually?

Shane: Well, we're gonna fill the planter boxes up, so we, we gotta buy heaps of soil. It takes a lot of—

Josh: So do they just look like potatoes then? Yeah. Okay. Shane, did you plant potatoes?

Shane: No, because I think you see, this is the newly acquired skill. I think you've got to wait until November, I think is the best time. And they say, I think it's after the Melbourne Cup, they reckon is a good time to do potatoes. But yeah, you do. What you got to do with the potatoes when they go old, you'll see they start to sprout, you know, a little grainy bit will poke out the top. And that's the point when you go, wow, that potato's a bit old. I should throw that away. Well, you can throw it away or you plant that potato. But what you can do is you can cut them up into, if there's a few sprouts sprouts coming out, you can actually sort of cut them, and as long as it's got a bit of a sprout, and plant those, and yes, they will grow into potatoes.

Josh: Okay, so what did you end up like? What did the dog actually ruin the whole thing?

Shane: Yeah, what did you plant? Yeah, the, um, we ended up growing a, a dissatisfied, uh, family and a really happy dog. No, no, no, we're good. It didn't destroy everything. So we've got carrots, we've got beetroot, we've got onion, we've got garlic, we have broccoli, we have silverbeet, we have cos lettuce, we have assorted lettuce. Yeah, it's a bit there. And we've got a Sony Bravia. Because I just realised you just shove stuff in the ground and whatever you put in there, multiples come out and I had an old TV. So I've shoved that in the ground and I don't know, hopefully out of that will come, I don't know, 4 TVs.

Josh: I don't know if that'll help. Maybe a 4K, yeah, but a 1080 if you put enough water on it.

Tommy: Shay, what have you learned in this time? I mean, there's more downtime than most have. I know you sort of get to work when there's nothing to do, but is there anything you've sort of realised or focused on or having more downtime that's forced upon you The absolute silver lining of this is I've got children and I'm fortunate enough to still be with the woman that I am madly in love with.

Shane: So I get to be at home with my best mate who happens to be my wife and my kids. So homeschooling, you know, I love those jokes going around at the moment that if homeschooling continues, they're pretty sure a parent will find the cure for coronavirus before the scientists do. Just to get the kids back to school. Having a chance to be at home with the kids every single day. We've, over Easter, we camped. I'm lucky to be on property. We've got 6 acres up in the Macedon Ranges. So we, you know, light fires, we do marshmallows. I've set up tents. We camped out for Easter. You know, we've planted the veggie garden together and just, we light fires every night, but either outside or inside. Last night, we hoped to catch the meteor shower and because I'm not at airports or on planes anywhere near as much as I'm normally. We sat outside last night, I made them cups of peppermint tea and we sat on the back steps and looked at the sky for, you know, an hour and stuff like that that you don't normally get to do. So what I love about it is it has reset. But I'm not taking away from the fact that there are a lot of people suffering terribly during this time. But what we're discussing is what is the good for me that has come out of it. As you said, I'm just making sure that, you know, I'd hate to think there's people listening to this going, well, 'all sounds great, but my life's going to shit,' which I'm sure it is for so many, and it is. But again, going back to the silver linings, just being told I have to stay home with my wife and children means I'm doing that, and that bit I'm loving. And my kids have, you know, every night we joke— God, it's nearly every night— I go, 'Kids, when you wake up in the morning, I won't be here. I've got to go to the airport and I'm flying to Sydney and I'll be gone for a week.' And they go, 'Nah!' You know, because they've heard that like so many times I won't be here when you get here in the morning. I'll be gone for a few days, but I'll be back on Friday night. And we joke about it now. I keep saying it and they'll wait for me to finish and go, "No, you'll be here." You know, so for us, that novelty's never going to wear off. So that's my takeaways. And we're filming my kids. I'm doing a little doco for our own family to document what they're doing during ISO so that when they're older, they can show their kids, you know. I'm hoping they'll think it was a special time, but it is for me and my wife, it is. And we hope it is for our kids.

Josh: Because you travel more than anyone I think I know. Like, how many— like, in a single year, do you know how many kilometres you're flying?

Shane: I don't know how many kilometers. Last year I did over 200 flights. And I'm, you know, with Qantas, I've made something like 3.5 or 4 million frequent flyer points or something. And everyone goes, that sounds great. It's like, no, because I'm stuck on those planes to do it. I'm platinum with both airlines. So, yeah, I know I did, yeah. I did over 200 flights last year. So, yeah, I've got, you know, God, if you name the hotels, if you name a state or a city, I can tell you the hotels and which are the best rooms just about. I've got, in Sydney, I've got certain venues where I say, can I have room 505, please? Because it's the better room. I know because I've stayed in it. In half the rooms. A lot of actors are the same, you know, there's a lot of people the same. But I do, because of my type of work that I'm not on a network every single night, I do fly, you know, quite often, you know, 3 states a week, you know.

Josh: Do you think it'll be hard getting back to that normal, or do you think that all this calibration has maybe changed what you're going to do forever?

Shane: I don't know. You know, a mate of mine said it best when he said there's 2 kinds of people people in the world at the moment. There's those who don't know what the world would look like after coronavirus, and then there are those who are liars. No one knows. I mean, we've not done this. We've not done this in a modern era. We've not had coronavirus in the year 2020 before. So I don't know what it'll look like. I think I'm gonna— it's gonna be harder for me to leave the house. It's been getting harder anyway because the older your kids get,, you know, the more you're aware that they get old so quick. It's, you know, it's a cliché. And as we know, cliché means it's something that has been proven to be right every single time throughout history. So I've always known that they do grow up quick, but I will find it harder to leave because I'm loving, you know, helping them school and read books with them every day. And yeah, we have breakfast every morning together. Every morning we get together and we all have breakfast, and every night we sit down and have dinner together. You know, we're watching You know, Hamish with LEGO Masters at the moment, and the kids are loving that. And we sit down and, you know, we've got a schedule, you know, of what we do as a family. So yeah, that, that would be hard to walk away from. Career-wise, I walk away from— yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Um, having some momentum within a career can, you know, if it— I don't know if it's just like the thought that you have the momentum or if it's a real thing. Where have you placed momentum momentum within your life. And I guess this is the moment where momentum is slowing based on something being enforced like this.

Shane: That's the only reason it is guilt-free for me is because I'm being told to stay at home. I don't— I've still got bills to pay and you know, we all— everyone's life is different. I've, through circumstance, I haven't got all the money I've made. So, I still have debts to pay. I've got a full-time staff that work for me within my businesses. So there's reasons why I've always sort of tried to keep moving forward, but I've always felt like I'm supposed to go and achieve more. And, and don't get me wrong, once I've got, you know, what I need to survive, I'm more than happy to stop. And I probably will. I'll really come back off the throttle, so to speak. But there's just been reasons. There's been reasons in life, you know, I've been through a breakup and things like that where you go, okay, well, you know, things get separated and you start again. So I've been through all that. And, but the thing that's, so normally I do wake up with a sense that I should be achieving something. I can't, I'm trying to shake that. I spent a life trying to build, you know, boy from the Western suburbs, trying to make a career and you can't help but go, I should do that because that would be good. That might lead to this. And I should go and work for that guy just to prove myself to him. And I always try and deliver on every promise. That's my dad set that up pretty early, that your word is your bond and without it, you're nothing. That you sacrifice nothing to erase or damage the reputation of our family, which is we do what we say. We have to, we gotta do what we promise. And you know, pretty much at all costs. So I have now, it's guilt-free that I have stopped Momentum because I didn't stop it. So it's funny, it's a weird thing that every other time if someone goes, we've got a job for you, and anyone that's been in entertainment and worked from nothing to where we are, comedians are very, very guilty of this wonderful thing, which is a work ethic. You know, I don't knock the gig back because next week, because I'm permanently unemployed. Unemployed. I mean, this is, you know, this part, this feeling of being unemployed is not a stranger to any person in entertainment. It's terrible the industry has stopped. We've lost our ability to— there's not opportunity there. But the feeling of going, I don't have a gig, it's permanent. Every time we finish a show, that's it, your contract's done. Like, we lose our job 40 times a year. So, um, but this time I'm not allowed to try and find work for myself in the next few months so that I have guilt-free momentum loss. But as soon as the shackles come off us and people are allowed to go out in crowds, you can guarantee I'll put fuel in the car and floor it.

Josh: It feels like your generation, it was very much like the men don't cry, you know, mental health didn't seem like it was a huge thing. In 2020, how much have you evolved in regards to how you view things like your mental health?

Shane: Yeah, it is very different. It's, um, I mean, everyone's heard this said a million different ways and a million times, but the world is more complicated to navigate. Um, uh, whenever someone says the good old days, I think sometimes that means simpler, simpler times. Um, also Good old days, we all know, between sort of, you know, for a lot of people, for people fortunate enough to have lived an enjoyable life, you know, sort of that 14 to 28, 26-year-old period is just awesome no matter what you're doing for a lot of people who are blessed with a good life. But yeah, look, the mental health thing, especially now, it's like, you know, I'm a part of many organisations who who work in that area. And it's like I said, life is just far more complicated now. There are more schedules, there are more things. If anything good comes out of coronavirus, the one thing I'm hoping it is, is that it's back to basics, which is food, water, shelter, and the love and comfort of those around you, be that family, friends, or otherwise. So I'm kind of hoping that resets that. I think it's going to make it tougher for for many, many, many people. Not everyone's in the joyful situation that I am to be near family that they adore. Not everyone has that comfort. But I do think the 2020, how much have I changed and evolved? Yeah, look at the, I've had a lot of friends. Entertainment unfortunately has the highest suicide rate by 3 of any other industry on the planet. So they're horrible stats that I know unfortunately too well. So I've had to say goodbye to a lot of mates who've taken their lives in entertainment. So it's not a fad, it's not a phase, it's just the world is different now. And as I said, it's harder to navigate. So this, are you okay, is so, so, so important. And now with coronavirus, man, we know the answer to this. There's a lot of people who are not okay. So that's changed. I was from a generation who were like, come on, up you get, get on with it. And it was sentences like, and I was raised by them. It doesn't matter if you get punched out. My dad was a boxing trainer, I did boxing boxing. I was a sparring partner for 13 years, and the thing was, it doesn't matter if you get punched out. What you get judged by is how quick you get off the canvas. So that was, that was the expression, which, which kind of means chin up, get up and get on with it. But not everyone can do that. Not everyone has the ability to do that. And, and I think my parents' generation— I've had to talk to quite a few people, the sort of generation above me, or one or two above me, um, that go, oh, come on, it can't be that bad, just get on with it. They don't understand that it's It's not a choice. That depression is not a choice. It's— I can't choose my height and people can't choose whether they are or are not depressed. They can try their best to try and navigate their way out of it, but that's what depression is. Someone who can't find a way of navigating their way out and they need help. And the first point of call for that is friends.

Tommy: Do you think that, like, entertainment industry, there's a lot of pain in the process of of achieving. Um, do you think people are drawn— you know, the statistic around people taking their lives and the types of people that get involved in doing this, you know, are you seeing a similarity in the types of humans that are involved in the entertainment industry and sort of that connection to mental health? You know, it's like, um, Robin Williams, one of the funniest people on earth and one of the people that struggled the most on earth, you know. Yeah.

Shane: Oh yeah, I've watched 3 projects with him in it just in the last week. He was, you know, an idol of mine without doubt. And, you know, I remember exactly where I was when I heard that he was gone. To answer your question, I think we are emotional beings. People in the arts tend to be because art of any kind is emoting. And, you know, even if it's painting, it's expressing yourself. There's also, it is a long road. There is a lot of rejection. Entertainment. If anyone— if you imagine a builder on a worksite, if you're an actor and you do a performance, you're going to please a lot of people, but you are going to annoy a percentage of the audience. Just facts, just stats. And social media, they've got access to you, so you can give the performance of your life and pour your heart into it, and a rather large number of people are gonna rip into you. And I don't And that can be hard and that can take a toll on people. And as you heard me say, there's a long period of time, right at the start when Josh said, you know, is there any security in this? I'm like, no. And I'm permanently unemployed. And you know, some of that comes at a toll. It does more than just sits in the back of your mind. It actually infiltrates your entire brain space and your whole body. But I'm not sure if people would know, an analogy I have, and it may sound unfair, but imagine if you're a builder, and when you're building that house, or when you finish building it and you stand in front and go, there you go, I built it. If 100,000 cars drove past while you were standing there very quickly going, good on you, mate, nice house, good house, love the house, good house, that shit, you call that a house? I could build better than that, you're the worst builder I've ever seen, my mate reckons you're a wanker, piss off, mate, do another job. Imagine if they just all of a sudden went, what the hell is going on? And you go That's these— so all these things driving past and people yelling out the window, that's the social media analogy of what happens when you do a performance. So that can come at a toll, um, because people are so vocal. And for whatever reason, I don't know what it is, but it's because we, you know, we put ourselves out there. But once you finish your performance, people— and now it does tend to come with a lot of anger. It's like, how dare you give that performance on the channel that I could turn off with the click of a button. It's like you've turned up in their house and insisted they sit down and watch your performance. Some people, not everyone, get really involved. When I did Top Gear, man, I can't even say that— and I got off really lightly. People, for the most part, liked it. But when I did Top Gear, I can't even tell you some of the things. I just can't say the words on this show or any show, really. I think even in a biker's den, they'd probably go, dude, back off on the language. Like, I just can't tell you some of the stuff I had said about you because people didn't like what I looked like in a car of their liking. I don't know, different world.

Tommy: Yeah, look, Shane, I want to take this time, uh, when you played Mackie in The Bourne Legacy, one of my favourite franchises, one of my favourite characters, mate. Absolutely nailed it, mate. Absolutely nailed it. I was blown away when I saw you in there, and I was like, mate, You have nailed it.

Shane: I've nailed Mackie. Yes, my favourite storey about Bourne Legacy. So for those listening who don't know, I played a very small role in one of the Bourne movies. That was the one with Jeremy Renner, Bourne Legacy. Anyway, I was going through an airport once and this guy and a girl, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, whatever they were, walked up to me and the guy said, "Oh, you're that guy, you're that guy." I said, yep, I'm a guy. And he goes, nah, you were in that, you were in that. And the girl was staring at me, she had no idea who I was. I could see that clearly. And then he goes, you were in that thing, you were in that thing. And I'm like, because just so you know, if someone goes, hey, you look familiar, I never go, that's because I'm Shane Jacobson. Or do I know you from somewhere? You know, I usually say Australia's Most Wanted, but there's no way you go, Or if they go, "You look a lot like that guy Shane Jacobson," I don't go, "Well, that's because I am." It's just, I think I'm going to get struck by lightning. So unless someone goes, "Are you Shane Jacobson?" But if they don't ask the right question, I just go, "Well, you know, I get that." They go, "You look a lot like that guy Kenny." I go, "I get that a lot." Because otherwise, I'm almost turning them around to go, "Hey, stop. Don't you realise I am that guy?" So anyway, I must admit, I don't. I don't help them too much unless they know who I am, 'cause otherwise it feels a bit braggy. But he goes, "You were in that thing, you were in that thing." I said, "Yes, I've been in some things. I've been in cars and cabs and been in debt, been in lots of things." And he goes, "No, you were in that Bourne film." And when he said the Bourne film, his wife or girlfriend had this look on her face like she'd been asked to just eat a hat. I don't know what happened, like lick the back of a footballer after a grand final or something. She had this weird face, and he goes, "Not the one with Matt Damon. Who was it?" And I said, "It was Jeremy Renner." And his girlfriend or wife goes, "Oh, Bourne film." I thought she said porn film. It is still my favourite day on earth that some woman thought I was in a porn film. Film. I think director.

Josh: Do you, um, the whole thing, you're someone I think that's humble. The being known for, for something, so say Kenny for instance, you would be called out as Kenny, I'm sure, still today.

Shane: Yeah.

Josh: Do you just, do you just reconcile it? How has it changed over the last, you know, 15 15 years, your relationship with it all?

Shane: People call me Kenny all the time, all the time. And I've always said, me and my brother have always said, it is so much better to be remembered for something you've done than forgotten for everything you've tried. And that is, we will never turn our back. I do get a bit disappointed, if you will, for the want of better terms, when I hear actors kind of turn their back on, oh, that old thing, God, you know, because when they did it, it would have meant the world to them. And me and my brother and our family, when we were making Kenny, we, we would have given— we just wanted some people to see it and for them to enjoy it. And we poured our heart into that. And my brother worked tirelessly for 2 years, and I toured for 7 months in character hoping an audience would get to see this film we've made and just hoping they think it was okay. And it went really well. And we— I'm never going to forget how much we wanted that to work. And then how much people enjoyed it. Like, that's fantastic. If everything stopped after that, that still would have been enough. So it's funny when people go, "Kenny!" which people yell out of cars and it still happens everywhere I go. Some people think my name is Kenny. My favourite is when they abbreviate it. So, Ken, question for you, mate. I get that stuff all the time and I don't go, "Ah, look, mate." So many people say, "Look, you probably don't know me." Kenny, if you will. Is there a certain place?

Josh: Is there—

Shane: is—

Josh: do you notice, like, if you go to an IGA, are you known as the IGA guy? Like, do you have to serve people? Do they— do they think you're the store manager?

Shane: No, it's just kind of, look at that, Kenny's in IGA. He looks a lot— he looks a lot like the guy from the IGA ads. I get that a lot.

Tommy: It's Kenny in IGA, the one from the porn film.

Shane: What would the porn be called? Kenny's Revenge: Plumbing from the Wrong End?

Josh: It would be. We've spoken about on the show before, there is a bunch of parodies, uh, on porn parodies, and I feel like Kenny, there could be a good one.

Shane: Have you gone through the names of the porn parodies? They're my favorite. Saving, Saving Ryan's Privacy. Yeah, I love that one.

Josh: A bit of a favourite. The Australian film industry in general, how, like, as someone who is focused on the business side of things and having an understanding of business, the Australian film industry, I guess, gets a lot of knocks of not being up to scratch. What's your perspective having been in there?

Shane: So we are, we punch so far above our weight, and I'll tell you why. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of films made a year in America, and only a few get to cinemas for people to see. Australia don't make thousands and thousands of films. We'd be lucky to make a hundred, hundreds of them a year, and so many of them are good enough to watch. And we do it— we have a really small population. Everyone's heard it a million times, I'll fast-track it. We don't have a big population, so we can't fill the cinemas like they can in America. And yet the product we make is fantastic. Look at how many Australians— look at per capita how many Australians are hits in Hollywood. So our actors are fantastic, our technicians are. I know people say it, and when you hear it at like a Logies or whatever, you go, "Oh, they're just saying that." They are actually world-class. They are. We just are. And there's good reasons for it because in Australia— in America, you tend to focus on one particular thing, and there's reasons for it. There's unions that protect each person's job, and that would be required in a big population like that. But in Australia, everyone gets on with comes with it. I'm not saying which one is better or worse, I'm not judging either for either. However, the upside is on a job in Australia, people tend to know more about the art of filmmaking. Me and my brother can pull together 2 or 3 people, and with me and him, we can come together and make a movie. I mean, we did. Kenny was made with about 3 of us. We can have all those skills. Literally between me and my brother, we can pull get together 4 or 5 people and make a movie. So there's that. But look, it is, it's a, it's a very tough industry. I've always said getting a film up in Australia is like trying to raise the Titanic on a mouthful of air. Films are incredibly— when someone goes, hey, I've got a great idea for a film, I go, hey, we've got hundreds of them, we just can't get them up, let's get them to screen. So it's, it's an incredibly hard industry. And on average, if people want to know, on average, to get a movie from an idea to on a screen is pretty, for the most part, 8 years. There are storeys where it's been less, but for the most part, it'll be 8 years. So if someone goes, I've got this idea for a movie, from that point, if they run the normal course that it would take, they are 8 years away from it ever being on a screen. So when someone says, do you want to sit down, I've got this idea for a movie we should make, I go, are you ready to dedicate the next 8 years of your life to it? And just so you know, that is no guarantee whatsoever that it'll get made.

Josh: It is exciting.

Tommy: Um, in terms like, I, I see you and your brother, it's almost like the, the OG YouTubers that are just getting the camera, they're making it happen, they're doing all the bits. It's like you got those films made back in the day. And is there a difference now in terms in terms of getting something made? I know you said 8 years, but is there a, you know, the time's different, cameras are cheaper, things are more accessible, there's more content needing to be made for Netflix and streaming services. Are you actually, once you get the green light, is a film being done quicker than it was, say, 15, 20 years ago or 10 years ago?

Shane: Yeah, so film and content, we'll separate those, 'cause there's TV that can happen fast turnaround And you guys, I mean, Josh can go out with all the gear he's got and all his knowledge and shoot something and have it on air in a week, you know. So content is still king. This thing here, that there, content is king. Because we're all walking around with televisions in our hands now and it never happened 40 years ago. The average family had one TV in their house if they had one when I was a kid, if they had one. And now, as we know, every pocket, there's one out of four pockets on your jeans has a viewing device in it. And then you walk home and there's 4 TVs and 3 computers and 5 iPads.

Josh: I wear cargo pants, so I've got about 10 screens.

Shane: He's not joking. So content is still king. So you're right, it has changed from the point of view that content can get made faster now. But if someone wants to make a traditional— let's just call it for now a traditional movie. So it's a 3-act story, a start, middle, and an end, a proper movie, let's call it an hour and a half with big scenes and everything else, that if you go, you want to make one that's going to get shown in a cinema. Having said that, now Netflix, as you know, now makes movies. They can do it faster. But the difference with Netflix is they are funding and they are the distributor and the producers of their own product kind of thing. They go, we're doing this. So they can get it up quicker. Whereas what traditionally used to happen was a filmmaker or a writer would come up with a great script script and then write it, and then they've got to find a director and they've got to find the actors. So that— and then it's got to be rewritten and rewritten, and everyone that gets involved that brings money in has to say over the script. And then the world changes, they want to change the plot, and then they go, actually, that actor doesn't want to play it, we've actually got this actor, be better if we change the characteristics of that actor or that character. So that model will take on average 8 years. I did a film called, uh, so Oddball, that 7— after I walked on set for that to start filming that, when I first got handed that script was 7 years before that. So the script was already finished and it took 7 years from that.

Josh: Um, like Brothers Nest, like your, um, the film you made with Clay, is it— was that a, was that a different process?

Shane: Very different, but that's my brother who's a freak who wanted to make another film and in the end had a lot of, a lot of delays distributors coming on board, people not quite knowing who the audience was for it or how to get it funded. And we couldn't get funding for it. And in the end, my brother said the only way to make something happen is to give yourself a deadline. And I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but he's a bit of a freak like this. And, you know, there's a bit of advantage that he's a director and our friend wrote the script and my brother and him worked on it. And then me and Clay were going to executive produce it. We had producers and all that sort of stuff, and we knew the crew we wanted. And so So we made sure the script was a one-location script. And my brother rang and I said, when have you got 4 weeks you can give me? And so we— it was 12 months out before I had a 4-week period that I could lock out and go, I can give you 4 weeks here. And he rang his producer, Jason Byrne, and said, we are filming in 12 months' time and here's the start date. And Klaydos decided to work back from the date, but you— but we had a script. Then that was finished and we were— we had a way of doing that with my brother and me doing and a few close friends doing a lot of the work. And you know, he got me a lot cheaper than other people get me and all that kind of stuff.

Josh: Do you get access to distribution though? Like if you go down that route, are you then— do you still have the doors open or do you have to go through the other process?

Shane: So we did something— well, my brother came up with an idea that we'd never done before and I'm not sure it has been done before Clay did it, which was we actually did— we went around the distributors. Now, distributors have been great to us over the years, without doubt. However, we actually— Clay came up with an idea for funding and distribution. We went away from distributors and we went away from the major cinemas, from all the majors, and we got independent cinemas to invest in the film. And for that, they got the film to play as often as they wanted, basically. And depending on how much they put in, we would guarantee a premiere at their cinema where me and Clay turned up. And so the small independent cinemas invested in the movie, and then they got the movie and it got shown at their cinemas. What it meant was it could never be a box office smash hit because it wasn't playing at Village and Hoyts, you know, it wasn't playing at the majors. So you couldn't get— go down to go to most local cinemas or to most big cinemas and watch it. But what you could go to was independent cinemas and see it. So that was how we did that. And that was— so you're right, Josh, we went completely around the entire model of how you would make a film and did it that way. And that's how we got it on screens in a year.

Tommy: And you guys, what did you work out success being sort of at the end of that cinema run? What was the idea and did you meet the success that you had in mind?

Shane: God, gee, that's a good question. Success, what's the measure of the success in that? So it's a few things because there is the, when you get the script right and you read it, that's one, we're gonna call that a milestone. And yet, you know, my brother and Jamie Brown who wrote it, my brother worked on it with him. You know, you get to that and go, now that, that's ready, that's a shooting script now, that's not a draft, that's not a first draft, 10 draughts and there can be 10, 15, by the time you get to the first day of shooting there can be 15 drafts, 15 changes. I don't mean just one line, I mean major changes. So you get that and that's for the writer and that's a tick. You go bang, that's success there, we've got a great script in our hand. Then you've got to get the film funded and getting to the point you go okay, we're shooting this thing, that is another success because you've now got it, I'll go back to motor car races, you can have have a race car driver, but— and there can be a car there, but until they get their major sponsor, that car is not going anywhere near a racetrack other than test. That's not going to race in anything. So when you get your major sponsor, that's a big bang success. We're making this thing. Then you shoot the film, and when you finish, when you wrap, you go, oh my God, we've just shot a film. Then they go away and have to do all the post-production, which is the editing and the sound mixing and the grade, and that can take forever. And when that's finished and you have your cast and crew your first sort of casting crew or your first audience test screening, when you sit there with an audience, then trust me, the director and the writer sit there and the producer with their heart in their mouth and they wait for the audience to react all the way through it. And if the audience behind them reacted the way they hoped they would or even near enough to that during that screening, then that is a huge success because they've just had an audience enjoy what they did. So if you wrote a song and you sat down in a room with 5 people and sung the song and all 5 of them cried for for a ballad that you wrote, you would go, "That is what I wanted." So then that's a success right there. But then you've got to go for box office success. You've got to try and make your money back and you've got to try and pay your investors. And so there's that. And then once that happens, you want it to be— do you want it to be a box office hit or do you want it to be a critically acclaimed movie or do you want it to be a cult hit or do you want it to be all them. It's really hard to be all of them. There's only, you know, one in a— not too many of those. They're sort of one in 10,000 or something.

Josh: What about the festival stuff? Like, because you did a bit of the festival round with the film as well, didn't you?

Shane: Yeah, so Brothers Nest got— there's a list there. One, what was it? The South by Southwest Film Festival 2018 Official Selection. It's on a little poster up there. So it got accepted into a whole bunch of film festivals and applauded. It played at South by Southwest, I think twice, which is pretty awesome. Then after that, was it a box office success? No, no, it wasn't. So you go, in a way, you go, that's really disappointing. But then you read the write-ups about it and they're saying it's an awesome film. At one point, my brother's one of the only people to have had two films which which was between Kenny and Brothers' Nest, that both at one point were 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, or 99% or something, which was— but I think Kenny was 100 for ages, and then one bad review came out, which gave Brothers' Nest a big drop. But yeah, so to answer your question, the success of that was all of those points when the script was right, when we got the thing funded, when we finished shooting it, when we did a cast and crew and they loved it. And then, and also every time you're in an audience with it, and they at the end, they, you know, burst into applause or whatever they do. That when it's your own project, that does make you go, "Oh, that felt good. That felt good." Like, that's a payment. That's a payment of sorts, you know.

Josh: Is it unfair to look at the box office stuff as a success metric when you look at, say, Brothers' Nest and Clay designing it in that way? Is there still that friction of the old school mindset being applied to this new way of doing things?

Shane: Yeah, it is, because the question is, uh, who should you applaud louder? The person with the gold medal around their neck, or if you found out there was a guy or a girl in Kenya that could run the race 2 seconds quicker than them? Like, like, who's the winner in that? You know, that's the thing, is, is, is it, is it the accolade around it? So yeah, the box office, because here's the thing, is is the box office successes aren't the ones that necessarily win the Academy Award. In fact, quite often that's not the case. An art house film is not going to be, for the most part, a box office smash. You can have a Ben Stiller film, for instance, that will just take massive dollars at the box office and everyone's going to enjoy it. But if someone says, "So how would you compare that to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?" something, well, someone's going to go, "Well, you don't compare those. How does that compare to The Shining?" You go, "Well, no, you can't compare those." And everyone goes, "Why not?

Tommy: They're movies." And you go, "Well, one's a racehorse and one's a donkey by comparison." I mean, the blessing and the curse is that everyone is a movie critic writer now. I got so annoyed reading all these sort of like people on Facebook, and it was an article posted by just a junk media outlet talking about The Irishman, the Netflix film that was about 3 hours long. But I mean, these are some of the best actors in the business, and I thought it was amazing. I thought it held my attention. For anything that can hold my attention for a long time is, uh, I think pretty bloody good. And they were amazing. But I just found myself getting so annoyed at these people who were just like slamming it as the, as the professional critics themselves. When it is so subjective. Do you think the time of a movie critic is on the way out based on things like Rotten Tomatoes and, you know, things that actually move the needle in terms of the population that have voted?

Shane: Yeah, the film critic thing, you know, there's one in particular in Australia who just tends to hate most things he watches, and he's probably got the biggest voice. In fact, my dad My dad has said that anything that this man hates, my dad wants to see because he disagrees with him so much. That was what was so great about David and Margaret was they liked such different films. And I thought they were a good, fair way of looking at some films. Not everyone would agree because— so Margaret Pomerantz loved Kenny and David really didn't like it. And we were okay, me and Clay were really okay with that. It's like, that's good. That suggests this is gonna be great for some people and not for everyone else. Else. And but your question about film critics is, so some of the, some of the stuff I've had said about films I've been in, uh, here's some of me and Stephen Curry play a game of what's the worst thing that's been said about you in a, or about a film you've been in. Uh, so one was, the search for the second worst film of the year is over.

Josh: That's not too bad, actually.

Tommy: That's a great one.

Josh: It's pretty good one.

Shane: Second worst. Yeah, the This film, the plot in this film is like a fart in an elevator searching for a nose. It's quite poetic. And I've got films that when you're shooting, they go, I know the critics who will hate this film. And yet it's exactly what's in this script, and we're delivering exactly what this film promises to be. Well, I did a film called The Barbecue, and I knew it would get slayed, slayed by the critics. It's called The Barbecue. It's not called Freeing the Enslaved Tribes of Judea. It's called The Barbecue. If you're going in there expecting to come out there, you know, blown away by, you know, the most incredible plot, I mean, stop. Yeah, Oddball was loved by families and children. And you know, it's a true story. It's about a chicken farmer who puts his maremma on an island to stop foxes killing penguins. That's the story. That's it. And guess what? It worked. Everyone thought it wouldn't work in a dick. Hey, that's the story, that's the plot. But you know what, you know, I don't know if you know this, the shortest— do you know the shortest Hollywood pitch in history? And apparently this is a true story, I can't confirm it, but apparently it is. Do you know the shortest Hollywood pitch ever? A guy walked into one of the heads of one of the major studios and said, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Danny DeVito, twins. And they went, we fucking love it. That's not a plot, that's not anything. That's just— they just know it's going to work on a poster. It's got Danny DeVito. You look at the poster and go, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Danny DeVito, twins, that's funny, I'm going to watch it. So, and that was one of the highest grossing films, wasn't it?

Tommy: He got like $20 million on a back-end deal, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I heard. He might— that's, yeah, his highest grossing film in the early days.

Shane: Yeah, Snake on a plane. Do you think they made that for film critics?

Josh: So true. Shane, I always love chatting. I always feel calm after we chat. But also, I want to say thank you because when I was, you know, 19 or 20 years old, I knew no one in the industry. I did some social media for Charlie and Boots, and then we started working together, I just felt like you were the biggest celebrator of what I was doing. But then also, I'm never gonna forget at the Logies when I was there behind the camera, Shane walks in, he's on the red carpet, pushes all the celebrities to the side, "Yo, Josh!" He gives me a big hug. And yeah, I appreciate all the support over the years.

Shane: Mate, thank you, but you deserve every bit of it. You are, well, there's the fact that I think my wife's obsessed with you, but there's that, but anyway. Everyone I ever know that gets anywhere near Josh, I always go, he's the nicest guy, he's so incredibly capable. Like, you know, I mourned the day that you started getting so busy and everyone found out how good you are, that I kind of, I had more access to you. And then everyone, like, you know, at the same time, Hamish, Andy, everyone's like, oh my God, how amazing. And like, we're all saying the same thing. Oh my God, Josh is awesome. He's like, he is the nicest man on the planet. And then you're more than capable of everything you do. And then my greatest dissatisfaction was watching you succeed where you became less and less available. I actually came on this show just to say, go to hell, Josh.

Josh: I'm gonna retire from social media for a bit.

Tommy: I mean, that was— Shane, you told your brother you needed 12 months until you could find 4 weeks.

Shane: Well, it's taken 2 years for Josh to find a sweet spot for you, mate. I've been sitting in front of this monitor for 12 months waiting for you to fit me into your goddamn schedule, Josh.

Josh: Thanks, Shane. It's always great chatting, mate.

Shane: Thank you. And also, thanks to all of you guys and thanks for the show you're doing. And also thanks to all the wonderful listeners who give a show like this its time to get an audience because without an audience, we're kind of yelling into a shoebox pointlessly. But I love the fact that this kind of realistic format where people are having a proper chat exists. So thanks for everyone listening and thanks for you guys for doing it. It's been my pleasure.

Josh: There's a bunch of people in the chat too that are absolutely loving it. Loving having you.

Shane: Shannon said, um, you're utterly delightful, Shane. What a magic chat. Um, Rory says, uh, what a legend, just needed this on a Wednesday morning. And, uh, Jasna says, wow, you definitely need to write an autobiography.

Josh: Well, he has. This is the— this is the— like, and I've got the— I've got the copy, of course. Love a good— love a good book. But, um, no, it's great. I mean, you're a storyteller. I think that that's the thing, like just you being around a fire or something like that, that's your— I feel like you need a podcast as well. I feel like this is your element. You've got storeys for days.

Shane: Yeah, well, I've been asked a lot to do them and there's this one that I'm looking at doing which I just want to do unsung heroes because Australia is filled with so many storeys of— we know all the celebrities. The celebrities get celebrated too much, I think, and I've always found it amazing that celebrities get discounts on stuff and single mothers pay full price. Like, it's always confused me. It just should be— they should just go, "Oh, you're an actor?

Josh: Well, that's 200% more." Well, feels like the coronavirus stuff is changing all that. Like, when we start seeing the essential workers and that type of thing, that seems to be changing it.

Shane: Yeah, I think it'll reset some stuff, and I think some of it does need to be reset, you know. But to go back to the podcast thing, yeah, it's funny, I do love— you know, my dad's a great storyteller. He's the best I'll ever me and the funniest man I've ever been near. And he's a raconteur, you know, that's the old term. He's a great storyteller. And in this time of coronavirus, my brother's actually got him at his place looking after him. Dad's 85 now. And so my brother's filming my dad, his entire life story. He sits down every day for about an hour with the cameras on him and has this amazing lighting setup where it's just Dad's head that's lit in the studio my brother's got on his property. And he's filming my whole dad's life, his stories. And I keep watching him and me and my wife keep crying, you know, laughing and every other emotion in between. But, um, yeah, so storytelling is a thing I celebrate, and I do think there are the unsung heroes of Australia. You go and get, you know, people that work on cattle stations and sit them down and talk to them, and they make us look shit-ass because they are— they're properly— you know, for what I celebrate, the Australian storyteller. So, uh, I'm tempted, Josh, I'll have you— you guys can tell me how to do it because, Josh, you were the man that used to teach me how to look after my tech before you decided—

Josh: but look at you now, you've got your I'm sure your iCloud's all backed up and fucking amount of time trying to work out your iCloud password.

Shane: Just before you boot me off your show, tell everyone how long it took us to get this shit sorted with the Apple ID.

Josh: Oh, actually it wasn't too bad. I was impressed. I was definitely reminding myself of moments. I was like, maybe I should have just gone there and set it up for you. But it was actually fine. You handled it very well. You're a bit like me. I feel like we're similar. You want to get things right. And so there's the whole thing.

Tommy: He's also a great actor, Josh.

Shane: Exactly.

Josh: Just keeping it together. But also, Shane, I think the other thing too is that spotlight on the storeys and exactly what you're doing with the West Gate Bridge story. It's an important storey that needs to be told in Australian history. And otherwise, if these storeys don't get told, they get lost.

Tommy: Shane, just on that, I remembered when I was a kid, Mum told me about about the West Gate Bridge falling down, and she told me that she worked in the city and she heard it fall down that day. She could hear it from the city.

Shane: It shook Melbourne. It, um, so yeah, look, there's some stats around it. The reason I'm— so, um, there's people who rode that thing to the ground and survived it, but some terrible— there's so many terrible stories. So the men that worked on that bridge had to spend, um, 2 days helping pull their mate's body well, bodies, or to be graphic, body parts, because a lot of them weren't complete, out of the mud that was, that is sort of that part of the banks of the Yarra there. And then as soon as they finished, spent, I mean, it just wouldn't happen today. You wouldn't have people on a worksite where they've just watched 35 of their mates die around them and then stay there for 2 days actually pulling the bodies out to rescue them. And as soon as they did that, they got 1 day off and then they were fired without Hey, you just go, what? You go, oh yeah. So the Westgate Bridge collapse was actually pretty much the start, the impetus of WorkSafe. So WorkSafe didn't exist until before that, and that was one of the things that kickstarted WorkSafe. Even Johnny Setka, who's obviously one of the people that's on the front page of the paper a lot, he's the head of the CFMEU, he's a union man, and he's sort of one of those figures that creates controversy in the papers and in roundtable conversations. His father worked on that bridge and rode it to the ground and survived but watched all of his mates die. That's one of the reasons I think why Johnny Setka's family are so hell-bent on unions and trying to keep a safe workplace. Now, whatever people think of that, I'm not trying to lecture anyone on any part of that, but just fascinatingly, Johnny Setka's father was one of the men on that bridge and he rode it to the ground and survived it, but 35 of his mates didn't. In fact, he was saved by smoking, which which is the weirdest story, he walked out of the lunch hut that was on top of the bridge, walked out, lit up a smoke, and that's why he was on a part of the bridge that he still rode to the ground, but his mates all perished. So he was saved by cigarette smoking. So there you go, kids, not that bad for you.

Josh: And so Shane, have you got— so you've been working on the doco. Has it got like a release date and things like that, or what's happening?

Shane: So we're, believe it or not, I'm still, I'm self-funding this. So if anyone thinks it all comes easy, we're hoping to get it to a free-to-air network. We're talking with networks now, so I still don't have it funded. I've spent quite a lot of my own money on it because I promised the families years ago. And Josh, you would know this, mate, because before you deserted me, you went and filmed the memorial service for me a couple of times, didn't you, mate? And yeah, yeah. So you know how long I've been on this. What's it been, you know, 4 years?

Josh: It's been 4 or 5 years, like, yeah, starting to get all the— But also, the other thing too is these stories, if the people who did survive, they pass away and things like that. So, it is that importance of getting it done.

Tommy: But if we know anything, guys, 8 years. 8 years it takes.

Josh: Yeah, 8 years. They told us that. Yeah. And so, with the— Are you in post-production? Like, are you still filming interviews and stuff like that?

Shane: So, we've finished all the interviews. They're all done and so, now we've just got to wait for the for which network says yes to go ahead because we will then access their archival libraries. And of course, it depends on which network you end up with as to what footage you get access to. To purchase footage, archival footage, is quite expensive. So yeah, we want to partner up with a network. So I have another company which is a documentary-making company with myself and a lady called Ariel White, and it's called Had to Be Told Productions. So storeys that we think have to be told and we've partnered up with WTFN. So they do shows like The Living Room and Bondi Vet and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, we've teamed up with them for us to all work on this together. So we've shot the interviews. We've actually, we've just finished editing the sizzle reel this week. And there's a treatment that's going to all the networks and we hope to have an answer in the next 4 to 6 weeks, 'cause we want it on air in the week and preferably on the night of the 15th of October. So it is the actual anniversary that this show aired. Ears on. Great.

Josh: Awesome, Shane. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Say hi to Fliss and the kids and go back to— yeah, what are you going to do now? What's on for the rest of your day?

Shane: So home, we're doing some more homeschooling. So I'm going to go outside where my wife by now will probably have set fire to herself rather than try and teach these kids anymore. I'm going to go outside go and do a couple of assignments with the kids. And then I have to go and mix some mortar, some sand and concrete mix together to put between some pavers to finish off a small job. And we're finishing off our insurance policy for our FTA Transport Logistics Trucking Company before I have 3 Zoom meetings. As we know, that's the way the world operates now, to do with some productions and a tour I'm putting together. So, and I'm gonna have—

Josh: So that's a nice quiet one.

Shane: Yeah, I'm going to have a toasted sandwich in about 2 minutes.

Josh: Amazing. Awesome. It's The Daily Talk Show. If you would like to watch live, you can do that at youtube.com/thedailytalkshow. This is a podcast as well, so you can listen on your favourite podcast app. And otherwise, we'll see you at 4 PM, guys. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you, guys.