Nick Capper - Comedian Nick is an Australian comedian who has been a part of the Adelaide Fringe Festival, Melbourne Comedy Festival and Sydney Comedy Festival. In 2019, Nick crowdfunded a trip to travel to London via the worst route and means imaginable – through Asia, across Europe, and finally stepping foot on the cliffs of Dover, all in a tuxedo and tophat. Alongside Mike Goldstein, Nick Capper hosts The Phone Hacks, where they swap phones and rummage through the dark corners of each other’s private lives.
Show Notes
Nick Capper's website: http://www.nickcapper.com/
Nick Capper on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/capperflapper/
The Phone Hacks Podcast: https://www.nearly.com.au/the-phone-hacks/
At a glance
From this episode’s transcript.
- –Nick Capper's 'Tuxedo Traveller' trip was a crowdfunded, deliberately awful multi-leg journey from Australia to England, completed in a tuxedo with tails and stage makeup for an extra $50 pledge condition.
- –Capper argues there's no reliable formula for what comedy material will work — unpredictable bits (like his Ferrero Rocher joke) can outperform carefully written material.
- –He describes 'smart grinding' in comedy: doing open mics has diminishing value once you can identify which rooms/gigs are actually useful versus just time-wasting, at which point writing becomes the better investment.
- –Capper changed his view on visibly ambitious/hardworking comedians (e.g. Simon Taylor, Christian Hull) — he used to see effort and self-promotion as uncool ('tall poppy syndrome') but now sees it as necessary and admirable.
- –The discussion connects hospitality culture (chefs working for 'status' under big-name chefs, referencing the George Calombaris payroll scandal) to comedy culture, where people often sacrifice fair pay for prestige/venue status.
Questions this episode answers
What was Nick Capper's 'Tuxedo Traveller' trip?
After fans offered to crowdfund his travel to a UK gig, Capper and a fan travel agent designed the worst possible route (Melbourne to Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, Shanghai, Poland, Serbia, Austria, Germany, France, then England) and, once the crowdfund hit $3,500, Capper agreed to do the whole trip in a tuxedo with tails, plus stage makeup for an extra pledge, chronicled on his Instagram.
What is Nick Capper's podcast Phone Hacks about?
On Phone Hacks, Capper and comedian Mike Goldstein roll dice to decide what part of a guest's phone to go through (notes, draft tweets, camera roll, search history), then roll again to decide a prank ('hack') to post on the guest's social media, such as texting an uncle or posting provocative tweets.
What does Nick Capper say about figuring out what comedy material works?
He says there's no formula — he's had entire written hours fail while an off-the-cuff line (like his Ferrero Rocher joke) became a reliable laugh, and that comedians essentially just put in work and let flukes emerge from that effort.
Episode TranscriptShow
Nick: The Daily Talk Show.
Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 624.
Tommy: Nick Capper's in the studio. Welcome, welcome.
Nick: Thank you guys. It's such a pleasure to be here, mate.
Tommy: Is this a real jersey, Guernsey?
Nick: Yeah, I am. Look, I'm going to say that like I am, I am a Sea Eagles fan, love the Sea Eagles. But really this— I bought this jersey because I just, I love it. But also it's just the right temperature for Melbourne.
Tommy: It is, right? Yeah. It's like a three-quarter sleeve.
Nick: Three-quarter sleeve. Is that—
Josh: is Is that what they wear on the ground?
Tommy: Three-quarter sleeves?
Nick: Well, years ago, years ago, they wore— Yeah, from this kind of era. Yeah, they wore this kind of woolen— God, it would have been hot. But yeah.
Tommy: Where's Sea Eagles? Where's their area?
Nick: Like, yes, Manly. Okay, man, you guys are real Melbourneites.
Josh: No idea.
Nick: Yeah, no idea about rugby league.
Tommy: Well, you're from— where did you grow up?
Nick: Moree, like, well, a town an hour out of Moree called Boomi.
Tommy: Is that New South Wales?
Nick: Yeah, yeah. Right on the border of Queensland, New South Wales.
Tommy: Really getting into that, that state of origin rugby territory, right?
Nick: Yeah. The pub that we had, they had the kind of the Queensland side and the New South Wales side because we're right on the border, you know? Yeah. And it was awesome. It was great. The families would get together, we'd all fight and I tell you, then you'd have dinner and then fight again. Have a parma, lay it in, you know?
Tommy: I tell you what, last night I had 3 beers and it got me. You know, sometimes you have only a few beers.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: And it can make you hungover.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: I don't understand it.
Josh: Yeah.
Tommy: But I've had 30 beers and woken up fine.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: Yeah.
Tommy: Last night I had 3 and woke up with a fucking killer headache.
Josh: Is it a certain time? Because I've only just started drinking, Nick.
Nick: Oh, really?
Josh: Yeah. So I'm 29. I only started really drinking. I had my first sort of wine a year and a half ago.
Nick: This would explain the awkwardness. Yeah.
Josh: I'm drunk right now, actually.
Nick: Does this guy have autism or is he just a non-drinker? Both. Both. Sorry, man. I've heard you joke about that before.
Josh: Which bit, the drinking or the autism?
Nick: Both. No, no, not the drink. I didn't know about the drinking thing.
Josh: No, but the— Yeah. So the whole, the whole drink thing. But do beers, different types of beers affect you more? Like, do you know that if I have a VB, I'm going to be an absolute monster?
Nick: Yeah, I think that. Yeah. I don't know about you, man. What do you think about this? But now especially, I'm a bit of a craft beer snob now. So I find if I drink something like a Tooheys New or a VB or I just feel like shit so much worse, you know. But, and also now the craft beers— sorry, guys, I haven't even had beers last night.
Josh: There's something nice about that. I actually enjoy that.
Nick: That's beer drinking, bro. I find when I eat a burrito, I get like 5 in a row. It's just like, oh, why do I do this to myself? Gusman, you've done it again. 4X.
Tommy: Yeah, that's— I mean, was that the, the water of choice? Up in, up where you were. Yeah, well, it's all the shit. It's, it's the— we remember we walked and we were at the front of the Forex Brewery, Josh, in Brisbane. Yeah, you could smell, you could smell it.
Josh: But it's real.
Tommy: That's like, that's their VB. It's a Vic Bitter of— yeah, it's a similar vibe, right?
Nick: Yeah, yeah. And people, most drink— but most people drink Forex Gold, which is like a mid-strength.
Tommy: Why is it— drink— you can have more of it.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. You can, um, I, I was a big fan of Forex and then, um, bunch of mates of mine, they all drank 4X Gold and I was like 21 and I was like, what are you idiots doing? My dad drinks this. Like, why would you drink 4X Gold? It's mid-strength. And then we went to Splendor in the Grass and they gave me like 2 cases because I was driving and I said, guys, after the 2 cases, I was like, wow, 4X Gold, I am ready to drive.
Tommy: The drink that you drive on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: The drink of choice for drivers.
Nick: No, they said this is a good beer because you can drink it all weekend, not really have a headache. If you drink it full strength, you are eliminated.
Josh: Is that the biggest issue with drink driving is the headache? Is that what gets you?
Nick: Oh no, take the driving. I wasn't driving it in this state. No, but yeah. And then I was hooked. And then now it's kind of my little guilty pleasure. I'll have a 4X Gold.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: Up the road. It's so cool you guys live in Abbotsford because I live here as well. And the Leadbeater Hotel. Like, yeah, it's like a weird pub. I don't know, it has bands now and everything, but they have all of these shit beers on tap, like Forex Gold, VB, everything. And it is heaven, right? You know what I mean?
Josh: Like, what street is it on?
Nick: It's on Bridge. Is it Bridge Street? The one where the tram goes from? The trams on Victoria and Church.
Josh: You're thinking of Church Street.
Tommy: Oh, on the corner. Yeah, it's Church Street.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: With the start near the brewery. It's near the big—
Josh: near Moondog.
Tommy: Yeah, close to that. It's on the corner, right?
Nick: Yeah, it's on the corner.
Tommy: Yeah, I've seen a comedy gig there years ago. Nat Harris, who has been on your podcast, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it was there.
Nick: Yeah, it used to be some other name. It was like the— I don't know, the Corner or something, or the— no, no, the, the Eureka. The Eureka just looked like Fight Club, you know what I mean? Just like, oh man, there's a lot of punch-ons, a lot of deals done here.
Tommy: Fun fact about pubs in Victoria, I think, Mace, look this up. I think there's only 2 or 3 that aren't on a corner. Oh, really? In Victoria, in Melbourne.
Josh: You soften the fun fact with, I think maybe. Mason, can you look it up?
Tommy: Yeah, yeah. Look it up. No, no, no. And I know one of them at least is on Victoria Street. Oh, and it's as you, I think it's as you go down on the right. Oh, no, sorry, sorry.
Josh: Johnstone Street.
Tommy: Near your old place. Johnstone Street. Yeah, it's on the right. And so, yeah, it doesn't, it's not on a corner. It's like one of only few in Melbourne. But it was back in the day when they built these things, these were the— it was the place to go. There was the, you know, the pub on the corner.
Josh: Do you think pokies fuck pubs or do they bring a bit of charm?
Nick: Nah, they fuck pubs.
Tommy: They also fuck lives.
Nick: Nah, they're good for people. I just don't like drinking around them, you know, like, doo doo doo doo doo doo. It's like, I'm trying to have a beer. No, as for the economy, they're great, you know, survival of the fittest, in my opinion.
Tommy: I think they actually keep the— what's the— Fernetto Club going. Oh, really? Club's in Bulleen. It's this, you know, old establishment, been there for years. Italian bloke started it. Anyway, there's pretty much the majority of the joint is a pokies area.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: And it's open till 3 AM every single night.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: You're not open till 3 AM every single night unless you've got addicts in there.
Nick: Oh man. Yeah, yeah. The Welcome Stranger, that is the craziest place on earth. Where's that? In the city. Well, it's just all pokies. Where? Chinatown? Yeah, kind of near Chinatown. It's on Bourke. Yeah. Yeah. And it is absolute— like, I went in there once because I had like a $100 note for once in my life.
Tommy: How'd you get it?
Nick: I had to get a taxi and my phone had gone flat so I couldn't get Uber. I got paid from a gig. There's this thing in comedy where you're at the end, they always give you a handshake with a rolled up note. You know what I mean? It's like the thing.
Tommy: You know what you're getting? Do you know what note it is? It could be a fiver.
Nick: Yeah. Oh, Boy, have I walked away with some like, whoa, I thought that note felt definitely felt bigger and I thought my work was worth more.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nick: Yeah. But I went in there to get some change. I thought, why don't I just play the pokies? And there was like this lady shouting at the machine. Everyone's just sitting there just staring at the screen. I was like, oh my God, I've got to get out of here, you know? But I couldn't help but think this is the time. Well, this is the night when my life turns around, you know what I mean? I couldn't help thinking about Yeah, I'll be telling my friends, what if my phone was charged and I could get an Uber? But then I wouldn't be sitting on this pile of money.
Josh: I wouldn't own Uber.
Tommy: And did you lose a hundy?
Nick: Yeah, I lost $20.
Tommy: Yeah.
Josh: And now you drive for Uber.
Tommy: I won $680 in a machine in Chinatown. Wow. We were eating dumplings at the Shanghai Dumpling House and then—
Josh: It's a real Melbourne tour, this episode. We suggest that you Yeah. Turn it on. Drive around Melbourne.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tommy: Walk past Gaylord's, the Indian restaurant in Tattersall Lane, and then just snuck into this sort of dodgy old pokies joint.
Nick: I think I know the one.
Tommy: The, the, the worst thing was we're two young pissed units that come into this joint, put our $5 in or $2, whatever it was, and hit a jackpot, whatever it was. And all these people around are so pissed because they've been in there for hours not hitting anything and we're just like dancing. We pull the cash out. Yeah, we blew it all.
Nick: All that. To be fair though, um, I don't know, pokies aren't something you can train for, you know what I mean? It wasn't unfairly taken away from him. I've trained for years, I've ruined my family, everything.
Josh: But you sort of feel there's a psychology, like when I'm in Vegas, that's really the only time I end up, yeah, uh, gambling because you're just walking past it when you go to the hotel, the airport. I could get into drinking, like I should go The one thing I'm worried about is I was a fat kid. I've always had to worry about my weight. Yeah, this could— this is a huge trap. This calorie— calorie—
Nick: oh, drinking is terrible, man. You would be looking at the rippedest guy ever if I didn't drink because it is a steady decline. It is because I appreciate— like, I would have ripped the hell out of you years ago. Like, why aren't you drinking? Whatever. But now I am like, stay off it. Like, just stay off that. Well, do it every now and then, you know. But yeah, because yeah, calories, they will come left, they'll come left, right and centre at you.
Josh: Because Limo was telling us that he had how many standard drinks in a week? 56. 56, which is more than a bottle a day.
Tommy: A bottle a day. And it was 4 standard drinks in a bottle.
Nick: I didn't get up to that bit. Really?
Josh: Limo?
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Bloody guzzle hound.
Josh: Now, I don't know whether that was gear or whether that was— I have a feeling he was being honest.
Tommy: I mean, even if you halved it, Still alive.
Josh: What was the most amount that you were having, do you think, before you realize, oh, you know, I'm going to dial this back?
Nick: Oh man. Well, that's the thing in comedy. You don't— it creeps up on you because you, you go to a gig, you get 2 or 3 free drinks and you probably get more because the bar, the bar people love you. They're like, oh wow, you know, well, they love me because I'm— I never have a bad gig, you know, and I'm always crushing, you know. And to be honest, it's been hard not to take up you know, offers to go into bars or manage them or marry, you know, barmen's daughters and things, you know, they've— yeah, but yeah, they offer you a few drinks and then you'll go, oh, because comedians were all depressed and we love drinking. So we're like, oh, we'll go for one or two more because you got this cash in your pocket. And but you never get totally off your chops. You do maybe once or twice a week, maybe once a week.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: But the rest of the time—
Josh: Can you drink? Or like, do they say a little capper, you can only have a, um, a beer. Or could you get like an espresso martini? Is that what it's called?
Nick: Oh yeah, you could get—
Josh: could you get espresso?
Tommy: Have you ever done that? Look at you like you're a wanker though.
Nick: Oh, you're kind of pushing the friendship as well because they're like $20. Yeah, it's double the drink voucher. They've got like, oh, basic spirit or whatever. But, but man, I have taken the piss a lot. One, one, one, yeah, one, one One place in Bathurst, the dude's like, I am so stoked to have you guys here. You can have whatever you like. Just keep going. And at 4 in the morning when I'd had like my 100th drink, the guy's like, no more, man. You're going to have to buy this one. Yeah, it was hot. I felt real bad about that.
Tommy: I watched Theo Von, comedian, do a set and he's on mushrooms.
Nick: Oh yeah.
Tommy: And it's just real bizarre. And it was really funny. Like being— how do you go actually being intoxicated? Yeah, say 4 beers, you're starting to feel it.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: What's the limit for you?
Josh: What?
Nick: Um, well, that's the thing, man. Yeah, you don't— I don't know, to finish off your question as well is that, yeah, it's never a problem really. So, so you're never really off your face drunk to people and you're not really making any terrible decisions. So people are like, hey mate, fucking dial it back.
Josh: Yeah, sure.
Nick: You're just kind of walking home pretty happy after 5 beers nearly every night.
Josh: Yeah, you know what I mean?
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: So that adds up to Yeah, 25 pints a week, you know, or maybe even more. And then you'll have one big blinder with your mates.
Josh: Well, 25 pints, how many standard drinks in a pint?
Tommy: There'd be 2.5.
Josh: So you're up at Limo numbers?
Nick: Yeah, I was definitely up at Limo numbers. Yeah.
Josh: So not that Limo has a problem.
Nick: Boy, I would hate to be Limo. Imagine if you were Limo. Oh, one of the nicest guys ever. Probably rolling in cash. But yeah. Yeah, no, I, um, yeah, and the, the drinking thing is weird because I stopped drinking for a while, uh, a couple of years ago, and I felt like so much more clarity, and I was so much better at stand-up. You were? I was— had a lot of clarity. But also, you kind of don't want to lose the nice guy in you. You don't want to lose that kind of bit of alaricum why you're a comedian in the first place, and it's because you like having a few beers with your friends. But yeah, man, you really— once you have more than 2 or maybe more than 1, you're walking the line. Because if you screw up one word on a punchline, it can change your set. People— because that could be like a real, a good joke that turns everything around for you.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: And, or, and some people give up on you at that stage.
Tommy: Really?
Nick: Or sometimes it's a big build up to that joke. And then when you screw it up, then the crowd are like, why did he say that?
Josh: Well, that's not the outcome you want from a punchline, is it?
Nick: Exactly. Exactly. But then what keeps you reeling in about, you know, waiting to go on or drinking on the job is that some nights I've gone on absolutely blind and destroyed. Yeah, because you're fearless. You're kind of like, yeah, fuck you, mate. You want to fucking go, mate. You know what I mean? Ripping into them. And then you'll talk brutally honestly like, I'm fucking blind and I don't give a shit about any of you people. You're all pigs to me. And everyone's like, oh yes, yeah, finally a guy is telling the truth. We are pigs.
Tommy: Um, I reckon I found your Facebook, a Facebook video of yours probably 3 years ago. Yeah, I was showing my brothers like, this is fucking hilarious. You were telling some riddle that like, it's— I can't— do you remember the video that we— I think it was like probably one of your first from what I could see that went viral on Facebook. Oh yeah, telling this— you're telling a storey about— do you remember?
Nick: Was that— I had a— I had one that was really puzzling. I don't know why it went viral.
Tommy: Was it puzzling as fuck? I was like, I'm confused. That's funny.
Josh: It's a riddle, right?
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: No, it's a riddle.
Josh: You're a riddle guy.
Tommy: I was just confused.
Nick: Yeah, I was just confused. A lot of people— yeah, a lot of people say to me after shows, they're like, man, the greatest thing about watching you is it looks like you don't know what you're doing. And I'm like, yes, that is my plan. Yeah. So I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Tommy: At that point, I legit thought that you were just that person that was doing the confused riddle or whatever, you know?
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: But then you go, okay, you're a comedian. So that's what people say to you.
Nick: Yeah. But also I am confused. I'm confused now, to be honest. No, I— it was one where I was having a shave and I was talking about electric razor.
Tommy: No.
Nick: This razor. There was another one I was talking about. Oh, like a mate being a dog.
Josh: Yes.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tommy: Can you just say it for Josh? It's not— no, because I don't think it's a— it's not like you're knock knock, who's there? It's not a joke.
Josh: I got in trouble the other day because we had someone on and she'd done comedy before and I sort of asked if she could do a bit for us. It's not a conducive sort of—
Nick: oh no, no, no. That is really hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think I was just saying I told my mate, went to— I was— because like there was a lot of people going, don't be a dog, come and have a beer, or whatever. Yeah, but I was kind of like against that. I was like, said to my mate, come and have a beer, don't go to the gym, don't go to the gym, come and have a beer. And, uh, then he got to the pub to have a beer with me, and I'm like, mate, you should have gone to the gym, you're a dog. I'm like, you're dogging yourself. I was like, you weren't the dog, but now you're the dog, and now you're the dog again. You've been double dog, you know. And I think it confused people so much that they liked it.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it was the first confused humour that I'd sort of gotten around.
Nick: I was like, I don't know, especially you guys. Also, I'm incredibly lazy, so I think I would have been saying that as a bit and then gone, you know what, fuck it, I'll just put it up anyway.
Tommy: I mean, that's what— shit, the shit that works.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: Do you know what's gonna work?
Tommy: Like, in the video videos or the stand-up that you do?
Nick: Never, man. You never know what's going to work. It's really trouble. Like, yeah, I, I got my special coming out soon. I open with this joke where I just go, um, does anyone like Ferrero Rochers? Uh, how good are Ferrero Rochers? Ferrero Rocher? More like Ferrero. Oh yeah. And I don't know why, but it gets a laugh every time. And now that's part of the joke, me being confused going, why does that get a fucking laugh? Yeah, I sit at my desk I'm writing, I'm writing about political, philosophical stuff. Ferrero, yeah, gets a laugh. And I think I said it one night, probably when I'd had a few beers, and I was just— because sometimes when you do stand-up, you're like, I don't want to be here. I have no jokes. I'm not funny. Why am I here? And then you go up there and go, yeah, Ferrero, yeah. And then it gets a laugh and you're like, oh, I'm back in the game. Yeah. So So that— yeah, so you never know what's going to work with stuff. I, I used to have times where I'd upload things, maybe upload things at this time or that time. Now I do not care. I'll put something up at 2 in the morning, it doesn't matter. If it's good, people will like it, or people won't like it, you know.
Josh: I've seen you on social media wearing a tuxedo a lot.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah.
Josh: Why do you, why do you wear a tuxedo?
Nick: Um, oh, it's a weird story. Um, But basically the great podcast, The Little Dumb Dumb Club, did some shows— they were doing some shows in England and they said some people were writing going, hey, because yeah, I'm always broke. So they said, is there any way we can crowdfund Kappa to come over? And just, just as a joke, and we brought up on the podcast like, oh, imagine if I went the worst way possible. And, you know, because, because it would have to be so cheap because I'm not going to crowdfund much money, you know, like $500 or something like that. And then people started writing like, yeah, where can I put this money in? Like, I want to, I want to do this trip. And, um, so we're like, okay. We said to— there was a fan who was a travel agent, a great guy who works for Flight Centre in Perth, and he said, I'll put together a route for you. And, uh, yeah, he said the worst route possible. We've got this much time, like 5 days. So yeah, he said, um, he said, uh, yeah, you'll fly to Kuala Lumpur on Malaysian, and then you'll fly to Beijing, get a taxi in Beijing to a train station in Beijing, get a train to Shanghai. And this is all nonstop, right? So get a train to Shanghai, fly from Shanghai to Poland, then fly—
Josh: Poland's great, by the way. I went to Poland a couple of years ago. Great.
Tommy: But how's the airport?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was only there for like 2 or 3 hours. It was just, it was just ripped dudes in sports clothes, like looking angry with like chicks in sports clothes with too much makeup. So it's kind of like the Gold Coast without a beach. Yeah.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: So I flew from there to Serbia, had one night in Serbia, and we did a gig there which went terribly. And then we had Serbia. They don't even get local references. They didn't even know where Abbotsford is. It was terrible. Yeah. So then I flew from there to Austria, caught 3 trains through Germany. To France, then caught a boat from France to England, and then caught a train from England. Yeah, well, from Dover to London. Yeah.
Josh: What's up the tuxedo bit?
Nick: So the bloke said to us it's going to cost 3.5 grand.
Josh: Okay.
Tommy: One way? One way or?
Nick: No, both ways.
Josh: And did you end up doing a return trip after this?
Nick: Oh, I just flew back after that.
Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tommy: You're broken by then.
Nick: I was already on Malaysia, you know what I mean? Like first class Qantas on the way back. Yeah, yeah, he got so many points from doing the long travel. Yeah, yeah, they're like, you got business class. Oh cool, I'm Malaysian. Oh no, oh, on my last flight ever, should be good. Uh, yeah, but, um, yeah, but then I said, well, that's definitely not gonna— we're not gonna make it happen. I said, look, if it gets to that much money, if we raise 3.5 grand, I'll do the whole thing in a tuxedo. And people were like— that really triggered people. We're like, yeah, let's do this, let's make this fucking prick do this. And then if you put in $50, you could give me missions. So, uh, yeah, great comedian Brett Blake. You guys should get him on, actually. He's real funny. He, um, he gave me $50 as long as I was wearing makeup like the whole time. So not only am I in a tuxedo with tails, right, I'm in makeup. So, so every airport, everyone was just staring at me. This, this Chinese lady just openly took a photo of me while I was applying my makeup in the airport. Yeah, so it was just—
Tommy: were you by yourself?
Nick: Yeah, I was by myself. Yeah, yeah. The whole— I met up with a mate in France just for the last day and we caught the boat together and he filmed me. He filmed this great film. It's on my Instagram and all that kind of thing. But yeah, it is a crazy situation. Like, sorry, I just had another burp there.
Josh: Yeah, we'll do that.
Tommy: Guzman.
Josh: Yeah, yeah. Guzman.
Nick: Guzman. Yeah, yeah. I ate 2 burritos before I came. I was like, oh, Daily Talk Show, it's a big gig. I better get spicy for this. Yeah, but then, and then I came back and then we, we did, they were doing a show in Newcastle, so I said, all right, I'll go from, from Melbourne to Newcastle the worst way possible. Yeah. So tractor, motorbike, bus. Yeah. People just reached out. They said, man, I got a tractor in my, my yard if you want to drive that for like 10k. I said, yeah, no problem. Yeah.
Josh: Do you think you're a better traveller now?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I'm pretty resilient. I don't mind sleeping on couches and things. I had to sleep on a couch in dabo on this farmer's house and it was full of cat hair. And, um, so I just had cat hair all over the tuxedo and we got blind drunk. And there was a big farmer called Killer and he'd passed out next to me and was snoring so loud. And it was the coldest night of my life and I'm just sleeping in cat hair on a couch. So I didn't know what to do, I couldn't sleep. So he had Baby Driver on DVD, so I just watched that. Yeah, so yeah, man, I, I I definitely— I think something like that, you become more resilient, but also you do appreciate the creature comforts. Like, yeah, whenever I stay in a hotel with my girlfriend or something— we stayed in this pretty average hotel in Bondi recently and it was bliss. Yeah, it was like, wow, TV, nice bed, sick, I'm a king.
Josh: What was the feeling through that whole journey and how many hours did it end up taking to get to London was the destination.
Nick: Yeah, I forget how because it was such a blur because it was nonstop to Serbia. Then we— I think I stayed. Yeah, I stayed one night there in Serbia and then I stayed one night in Strasbourg. But all the rest of the time I was, I was traveling. So it was weird. Before I got to Serbia, I thought I'd been— I'd felt like I'd just won a 10-hour journey. But really it had been something like 36 hours or 48 hours.
Josh: How did you feel?
Nick: Oh man, I felt wrecked. There's a— there's a— there's a— if you look back through my Instagram photos, there's a comparison photo of when I first started and to when I was in Serbia, and my makeup's all over the place. And yeah, I just look like, yeah, someone shot me with a makeup gun. Oh yeah, like in an airport. And I was tired of people staring at me. Everyone was staring at me and I was tired of it. It was 4 in the morning. I'm in this airport in Belgrade and people are just staring at me while I'm trying to put on this makeup. Still going. My teeth feel furry.
Josh: I've been eating. I mean, you could have brought a toothbrush.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: But you did have carry-on. Did you have any? What sort of luggage did you bring?
Nick: Yeah, I had a bit of luggage, you know what I mean, to take with me and stuff. But because when I got to England, I was planning to get out of the tuxedo. I couldn't wait, to be honest. Yeah, but I your teeth just feel furry and your body doesn't feel good. You know, we're talking about calories because once you're eating aeroplane meals non-stop, it feels weird, like it's all carbs. And I read up, I, I like went into research about aeroplane food. They've got to put a lot of stuff into it so it doesn't dry out in the air, and there's some chemical they've put in it as well to make people feel relaxed. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, um, and plus it's got to go through really strict standards, so it's got to be ultra processed because if one meal is shit and someone gets sick, it could kill everyone on the plane. So it has to be highly sterilized, you know what I mean? Like, it has to be. So you feel all those chemicals in you. You feel—
Josh: do you normally feel them, or is it just because you read a fucking BuzzFeed article of the 10 chemicals?
Nick: No, no, that's— well, I read up about it afterwards because I was like, why do I feel feel this way? Why do I feel like— I don't know, when you know you've got friends and they're eating microwave dinners all the time, you're like, why am I depressed? And you're like, yeah, because you haven't eaten fresh food.
Josh: This is how I feel about— this is why I got off the microwave meals, was because it is something— there is something like prisoner-like about it, you know, man.
Nick: Yeah. And I think also it's like making your bed or something like that. When you make a meal, you're preparing it, it's satisfaction. When you make the meal, it helps you process mentally. You've got a goal and an ending, and that helps with your mental health. And when you put— when something's too easy, you're like, this isn't going to go good for me in the long run. You know what I mean?
Josh: You feel that way with comedy, do you think?
Nick: Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, if you rest on your laurels, that's the wor— the moment you think you're good, you're bad. Yeah, you've got to think you're shit all the time.
Tommy: What, um, do you have any conversations with people sitting next to you?
Nick: Yeah, I had a few, had a few things. It was some weird situations. Uh, I remember, I don't know, Europe was weird because there's a language barrier, so people just don't really come near you. One lady came up, like a lot of people came up to me in China and said, "Are you an artist?" And I was like, "Yeah, well, someone would agree, you know. Have you seen the depth of my stand-up? It's basically Michelangelo or one of the turtles." I don't know, but, uh, yeah, um, Yeah, yeah. And this lady came up to me in Belgrade and said, are you a composer? Right? And I was like, yeah, I am. It's 8 in the morning and I've got a coffee in my hand, a bagel. Time to go conduct at my 9 a.m. show, you know? Yeah, I live the dream of the composer. I think the tales is what brought that insanity. But yet, funnily enough, the coolest one, and that's kind of like I'm doing my whole comedy festival show about it. Is I fully like, maybe you guys should do some, I don't know, this is already an adventure. This is what you guys are doing now.
Josh: Tommy's got an adventure club, which has turned out to be an epic fail.
Tommy: Yeah. Hang on, hang on. At least mine has a beginning and end clearly, unlike the book club.
Nick: Yeah, the book club.
Josh: It's an ongoing club. Clubs don't need anyway.
Nick: Oh man, I laughed hard about this when you guys were pitching these ideas. I was like, yeah, mine's happening because I kind of want the book club to get out of control.
Tommy: You have 10 books in, you've read 5 pages of each.
Josh: Well, yeah, what is out of control in the book club?
Nick: Yeah, I don't know, someone walking in with a Monster Energy drink shirt or whatever.
Josh: That could happen.
Nick: Fuck you, I reckon Tolstoy is a masterpiece. Like, fuck you, Tolstoy isn't shit. It's just an all-in brawl. And meanwhile, the adventure club, you've got all these boring dorks going, my bad, watching trip it at Uluru is incredible. That's the way I want it to go. But, you know, it's like when that all-in brawl happened at the darts championships years ago, like in Melbourne. I was like, man, that is so cool. Like, meanwhile, everyone's just sitting at AFL with mid-strength beers apart going, just keep quiet, you know, like, oh, you're a dog. But meanwhile, the darts people, yeah, Bullseye Joe got it in there. Fuck yeah.
Josh: Are you a sports guy?
Nick: Do you like Sport, man, I didn't like— I didn't, because in New South Wales you're either sports or you're art, you know, that's kind of New South Wales and Queensland. But in Melbourne you can be both things and it's awesome. Yeah, I was like, wow, Tim Rogers is in the AFL hardcore, you know what I mean?
Josh: Is this why you wear the jersey? Like, is that part of the whole thing? What is it called, a guernsey?
Nick: Guernsey?
Josh: Is it a guernsey?
Nick: I don't know, I always— I've always mixed them up, man.
Josh: What do you call it?
Nick: No one's pulled me up.
Tommy: Okay, wait, the guy, he's Mr.
Josh: Pull Up.
Nick: No, I can tell this is annoying you, man. So that's why I'm going to keep interchanging for the rest of the podcast. Anyway, no, the jersey is good. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's my favourite Manly jersey.
Josh: And so, so you are an art and sports guy?
Nick: Yeah, but I wouldn't say I totally commit to sports because I put art first. Like, I'm, I'm Unfortunately, I'm a huge Frio fan as well, but there's not many Frio games I can go to, you know what I mean?
Tommy: Why you go for a Perth team? What?
Nick: Oh, it's a long story. My, my dad is not— he was not a sports— he watched rugby, but that was it, you know, the Wallabies and that's it.
Josh: Because this rugby—
Nick: no, it's Rugby League. Yeah, yeah.
Josh: What's the difference?
Nick: Uh, rugby's like scrums where you, um, where you just— there's constant play of the ball. So when you run the ball and you get hit, that that ball can be taken away from you by the opposing team. Whereas like in rugby league, you just get 5 runs of the ball, then you have to kick it to the—
Josh: What's NRL?
Nick: Yeah, that's NRL, rugby league.
Josh: Okay. Is that the big one?
Tommy: The— this is state.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: Whereas league is—
Josh: isn't it Maroon?
Tommy: Maroon is multiple teams within the state.
Josh: Queensland technically?
Nick: Yeah. League is rugby. That's multiple teams within the state.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: So it's mostly New South Wales, Queensland. You know, and Melbourne Storm, uh, which are a great team. You've got Auckland Warriors, um, that's— yeah, it's each city or suburb, like, um, suburbs of Sydney, you know.
Josh: Um, but so Fremantle, how did you end up with the AFL going for Fremantle?
Nick: Uh, I, um, I— my grandma's from Fremantle. Okay. Yeah, which is, which is weird. But my dad was—
Josh: it's not that weird.
Nick: Yeah, I don't know, it's kind of weird in a way because I guess that She went on a round-the-world trip when she was young.
Josh: In a tuxedo?
Nick: No, no, not in a tuxedo. But she was in the newspaper because it was unheard of for a girl her age to go by themselves around the world. And then she met my, my grandpa in Zambia, and then my dad was born in Zambia.
Josh: Which did she—
Tommy: where's Zambia?
Josh: Africa?
Nick: Yeah, Africa. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: So she was like the original— is it Jessica Watson?
Nick: Yeah, yeah. But she didn't She just jumped on a boat. She jumped on a ship. She said you could, um, just kind of— said it was pretty lacklustre back then. You could just hitch a ride with a freight container.
Tommy: Really?
Nick: Yeah, yeah. So she said it was awesome. She was just— her and another girl were on this boat just, uh, helping out the sailors every now and then, just hitching a ride. Yeah, yeah, that's sick. Yeah, yeah.
Josh: How many countries did she go to?
Nick: Uh, I forget. She told me, but it was always such a blur. I kind of didn't find this out till she had dementia. So it was a bit of a— I never saw the order, but I think she travelled around Australia for a bit, then she went to England, then, uh, Africa. Yeah, yeah.
Tommy: Wow.
Nick: Yeah, yeah. And it's weird because my granddad, he, he came back from the war and he hated England because he only had good— and he had bad memories of England because he was there during Churchill. He told me all kinds of stories. Like one time he said that they the Germans were bombing. And, uh, he said that everyone— Churchill said everyone get to your shelters. And then his dad was just tired of going to the shelter, so he said, fuck it, we're gonna die, just let's just die in our beds. Yeah. So you could see why my granddad wanted to get out of Africa. And he, he came back from the war, he got a job in a bank or something. First day job in the bank, he got his bowler hat, like those British bowler hats, and an umbrella. He got on the train, he was like 20, and he saw like all these guys that were like 50 with bowler hats and umbrellas just looking so sad. And he's like, fuck, that's, that's going to be me, that's going to be me. And then he looked above them and there was a poster, do you want to go to Africa? Like, because, you know, the British had colonised kind of Africa back then or whatever. And then he got off the train, rang the number on the poster, and they said, yeah, well, there's a boat leaving for Africa in 2 days. Bring £10 and you're on. So yeah, he said he went from war-torn England, shit weather. He got on the boat and he won this gambling kind of— I don't know, it was poker or something. And that set him up for the rest of the trip.
Josh: This is like, you pokies, no wonder you think you're gonna make it.
Nick: Yeah. And, uh, Family was built on the back of poker. Yeah, exactly, man.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: Gambling and drinking.
Josh: Yeah, yeah.
Nick: Kappa heritage. That's what we do. And then he got to— yeah, he got to Zanzibar and he said it was amazing. There was just this absolutely golden beach, walked straight into a bank where my grandma was the secretary and he got a job and they said, all right, well, we don't have a house for you yet, so we'll just put you on a resort on the beach. Beach. So he's just eating breakfast, like, he goes from war-torn England to eating breakfast on the beach in Africa, going, this is the best thing ever. He had— he said he had to pinch himself.
Tommy: What was the catch? Any catch?
Nick: No. Well, that, that's— he was— well, he— I guess the catch that he was in the war.
Tommy: And so they were trying to— what was the purpose of getting people to Africa? Uh, start populating?
Nick: Yeah, the British. Yeah, colonization, all that kind of terrible stuff. Have you guys seen that, uh, Richard E. Grant movie, Wawa?
Josh: No.
Nick: Oh, it's, it's awesome because he's from, he's from Africa and, you know, his dad was in the British colonies and it was just paradise. They just moved all these British delegates over, you know, paid them a fair bit of money. They all had servants and basically they all just were alcoholics because they were all bored. They weren't in England, they didn't have any British, you know, cups of tea or whatever, you know, and the weather was great. They were all too hot, so they just got all drunk or all got drunk and just banged each other's wives, you know what I mean? Like, that was kind of, yeah, it was this weird incest community and a lot. Yeah. So I'm not that my grandpa was part of that, but my dad said it got close, you know what I mean?
Tommy: And where was your dad born?
Nick: Uh, yeah, he was born in, in, uh, in Zanzibar. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah. He was the first— he was one of the first white children born, like, that was born in that area. Okay. So, so he was, um, there was a sultan like the—
Josh: what is the Sultan?
Tommy: Is that like a royal sort of Sultan of Brunei?
Nick: Yeah. Yeah.
Josh: What is it? What's the official definition of a Sultan?
Tommy: Yeah, like a prince but not something. Royalty. Yeah.
Nick: Oh man, we haven't gone to Mason yet.
Josh: Yeah, no, that's right.
Nick: I feel bad. Yeah, it's so cool though because I, I've never really seen Mason before. Yeah. But it's so cool to look over and kind of see him laughing. I'm like, oh, that's cool. This guy, you know, he's kind of seen the war. He's kind of sat here like 600 hours of sitting through this. I think I thought you would. I thought he would be an alcoholic.
Tommy: He's actually the opposite, fitness fanatic, because he has to get his endorphins up somehow.
Nick: Yeah, exactly.
Tommy: Are you related to Warwick?
Nick: No, no. I have met him twice though, the famous Warwick Capper. I used to work at Channel 31 and, um, can we just find out what a sultan was? Oh yeah, true. That was that other story. You guys really bounce around.
Tommy: Yeah, we do.
Nick: Oh yeah, it's nice. Um, and I, for At first it threw me. I was like, fuck, I've got to get back on track. And I thought, no, there's no—
Josh: this is—
Nick: no, we just have to get you back on.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah.
Josh: But I love— I hope that every time someone says, why do you barrack for Fremantle, you tell the whole story. Yeah, you fucking right. What was the salt? What's the salt?
Nick: So it's pretty much a ruler, but it comes from the—
Josh: it's an Arabic noun which means strength, authority, and rulership.
Nick: Ah, yes. Yeah, because I think there was there was Arab rule in that province as well. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently my dad was kissed by the Sultan. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So what is that?
Tommy: Is that like a blessing?
Nick: Like a blessing? Yeah.
Josh: And they just like—
Tommy: Sexual harassment. Me too.
Nick: He was kissed many times by the Sultan.
Tommy: But is that a thing? Like the Sultan's kissing you? Yeah.
Nick: My grandma, even when she had dementia, she always talked about it, how she was pushing him in the pram and and you always had to bow to the Sultan.
Tommy: Wow.
Nick: And apparently the Sultan, you know, she bowed to the Sultan and then he, he looked in the pram.
Josh: Of course, because your dad's a baby. I'm imagining.
Tommy: I mean, it's kind of cute. He liked babies.
Nick: Yeah. My dad was the first gay man in that area. And the Sultan. Yeah, they had a steady relationship for a while. Pretty forward thinking. And considering homosexuality It was a sin. It was very controversial. The Sultan's 8 wives were very angry. They're like, a white guy, seriously?
Josh: You talk, you go pretty meta. Like, I like that you fucking pointing out things. Is that— you've got a podcast called The Phone Hacks. Is that— do you think podcasting makes you go more meta with things, or is it the comedy background?
Nick: Oh man, it is. Podcasts are like a weird release. I don't know why, because it's recorded. Like, on stand-up, I'm always watching what I'm saying. I don't want to offend anyone or, or say anything wrong. But it's weird because a podcast is forever, and you do listen back to it. Anyone can listen back to it anytime, yet you feel looser.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: Do you guys feel that?
Tommy: Yeah, because I think it's just like, it's like a conversation. You should— if you're talking to a mate, you know, and that's what we try— have tried to create is the conversations you end up having with a friend where you don't— you're not thinking about, yeah, oh, how am I sounding?
Josh: What's a volume game? It's not like— it's not like I'm doing this one thing and then they're going to judge us on that thing. It's like you listen to hours and hours and you might say stuff or trip up, but in the long run, I think that if we're just doing the thing that we believe is us, then we're safe.
Tommy: It's hard to get a sense of who you are just from watching your stand-up and that's the only thing you watch.
Nick: Yeah, yeah. That's what I find that's puzzling about you guys is that you're sometimes like, I get asked to go on a lot of podcasts and I don't know the people. And you know, that's why I asked to be on this one because sometimes you'll get on there and these people aren't comedians or anything, but you can tell they're not good at podcast conversation or they've got to work on it, you know? And, and I feel so we get guests on from the radio and you can tell straight away that they're good at it.
Josh: At it.
Nick: Like, they're— and they're incredibly talented. Like Cameron James, um, he's not from the radio or anything, he's a great comedian, but he's one of my favourite podcasts because he can fill the gaps and he's got this laughter and it keeps it rolling. Yeah, you know, it's really, really great, you know. And I found I'm not as good as him as that, or I'm not as good as someone else. Like, Limo's good at it as well, you know. Um, but I find that when I'm on a podcast where they're inexperienced, that's what I've got I've got to fill the gaps. I've got to be there and I've got to keep it rolling. And it's cool. And that's what puzzles me about you guys, is you guys aren't from any kind of radio background, but you guys seem to manage to keep it rolling really good, which is a real good skill, you know, probably because, yeah, you've been doing it for 600 hours, probably doing it longer than me, you know what I mean? I should be asking advice from you guys. And, uh, that's, that's what, that's what's cool. And also when you listen back to episodes and how, how you can be better But also sometimes you have weird awakenings. Like, I'm a big fan of the television show The Watchmen, and I'm obsessed with it. And so I listen to The Watchmen podcast, and it's got the director of The Watchmen and the director of the Chernobyl, uh, series. So these guys have never done podcasts before. They are directors. They, they make incredible TV. But I listened to the podcast and I was like, why is this so good? And not only because it's about a subject that I like but it's also these guys have not said um or ah, like, or anything like that through the whole podcast. These guys are consummate professionals. I don't know where they learned to talk like that. I'm like, oh man, that's, you know, and it was kind of disheartening in a way because yeah, way less podcasts.
Josh: You listen back to yourself, you were saying?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, some episodes yes, other episodes no. I'm like, I hate this. And then sometimes it's a real good episode, but I find that that I know what I'm doing. So I'm like, maybe I'm sucking up to the guest too much, you know what I mean? So I don't like it.
Josh: What are the tells? How do you know if you're sucking up to the guest? What do we say?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, a huge sucking sound. You can hear me rub my hands together. Oh, please love me. I whisper love me in between each Senses. Uh, yeah, yeah, just, just kind of like, I don't know, like I'm, I'm too interested in them. I'm, I'm sorry. Yeah, authenticity. Like when it lacks authenticity, like, uh, yeah, I'm not, I'm not authentic about my interest.
Josh: Do you think that the audience would know that, or is it just because you know that you're not interested? You're like, man, I sound interested but I'm not interested.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, what it is, uh, yeah, I think I know that, and that's bad enough for me. Yeah, you know, maybe some people pick it up, but it is weird. And also on podcast, because with Phone Hacks, we put so much work into it. We've got to write the hacks, we've got to, you know, um, recap the last hacks, we've, we've got to come up with new and inventive ways to trick each other and something for the guest. But also, now that it's got this flow on, we kind of— people were saying to me, man, I don't know what happened to the podcast, but it sounds so much better now. You guys must have put a lot more work into it. And I'm like, like, we have never put less work into it.
Josh: Is it just time then? Yeah, just spending time doing it.
Nick: Yeah, I think so. I think, yeah, yeah. So you never know. And then maybe there's some episodes where we're like, man, we're at the top of our game with this one, hasn't got near the, the reach, you know. And, um, yeah, we had a great guest this week. We had Dan Muggleton, but we— Mike was feeling sick and we're doing it on this stage before a live show, so we didn't have an audience there. So we're just looking at this crowd with no people. Yeah, just, man, that burrito, those 4 burritos really ruined me. But we're looking at the stage where there— yeah, there's no people in the seats and we're sitting high on these stools. And I just felt like the dynamic was off or something. It was still a great episode, but people love this episode. People are like, man, that was such a great episode. And I was like, oh wow, that's so cool. Like, why? Why do you like— do you guys get that with some episodes?
Josh: Tommy always talks about it. It's like whatever we feel isn't the reality of what audience members think.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: And so, you know, you could be tired off the back of a weekend.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: And feel like the show wasn't great.
Josh: Yeah.
Tommy: But then people, it really resonated with them. So I've, I've stopped listening to, to myself as intently in that way because I'm like, but there is a, there's a, there's a 600 in that sort of I'm surprised it's because I haven't, I don't put as much thought into it like we did in the first 100 or first 200, 300.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: It then just becomes the muscle's grown.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: And so yeah, it's a weird creative ideas though. I like that. It's like, like you said, I don't know what a joke, what joke's going to work.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: And so that's been a, that's a belief that you have. Yeah. Based on your experience of shit landing that you like the Ferrero Rocher. Yeah.
Nick: Oh yeah.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's— there is a weird karma about it though. You got to work hard or you got to put some effort into some type of thing and then, and then those flukes will come out. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like— it is kind of like you make your own luck. Yeah, yeah, you kind of got to be working hard at one thing to make that.
Josh: The—
Nick: I've, I've written shows, I've written like an hour of material, wondered why it's not working and then all of a sudden, right at the last minute, I'll just write 15 minutes that's unrelated that will kill, you know, and I'll have to throw all of that stuff and I'm— and it's disheartening. Oh, none of that stuff will ever get air again. That whole hour of Ferrero Rocher ruined a lot of material. Yeah, exactly.
Tommy: I love just the chocolate guy jokes.
Josh: I like the idea of us doing a documentary just on the storey of the Ferrero Rocher joke. Yeah, it's like material. You get your Netflix special off the back of it.
Nick: That'd be so— that'd be so cool, man. Like, I love those Netflix documentaries where they're all so in-depth. Like, the Ferrero Rocher joke came around this, and then it's always got some dude who's like the king of comedy, like some guy in sunglasses covered in gold is like, it was a dynasty. Comedy was in a bad place. And then this dynasty happened, like it appeared, and it's just got sequentially heaps of comedians talking like, it was ecstatic, like people didn't know what to do, it was a crazy time. You know, all those documentaries are the same. You could get like, I don't know, when troll dolls came out, like they exploded. You're like, that was an event that happened for a month or something.
Josh: It's like, what is it, 20 to 1? Yeah, yeah. They always find like D-grade celebrities to be like it. Like just talking to— like, surely these fuckers don't have an opinion on it.
Tommy: Can you just say this?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, sure. Gilligan Island. Yeah, cool. It was on an island. Yeah, it was nuts.
Tommy: Did you watch it? Yeah, I watched it.
Nick: Yeah, I was walking past the TV once and my dad said, let's turn it to something else. It was a Dynasty.
Josh: Yeah, we actually— I, um, had a video, one of the only projects that I never got paid which I like, I was meant to get paid for, was filming.
Nick: I'm not getting paid for film. Wow, that's crazy.
Josh: And so, you know, I was filming, it was for this pharmaceutical company and they had a doctor on.
Nick: A pharmaceutical company did not pay you?
Tommy: Yeah.
Josh: And so they got this doctor on and they, he was talking about why this product was great, but he just kept making up storeys about, it was like for a specific product to help kids, you know, who have had like, cuts or injuries or whatever. And so he would just be like, um, you just, you know, press record or whatever. He's like, yeah, so I was at a park the other day and this kid had a scratch, and then I went over and put the cream on, and the mum couldn't believe it.
Nick: The mum was like, first of all, like, whoa, stay away from my kid.
Tommy: Fuck off, unless you're the Sultan.
Josh: And so the thing was, but then would be like, then what the marketing person's like, oh hey, Doc, Can we do like a version that like maybe even more like, like a little bit more truthful?
Tommy: Yeah, you got any medicine for bullshittery?
Nick: The mum takes the kid back to her husband and said, man, this— look, bad news is our kid got felt up in a park. The good news is he's healed.
Josh: But it was so—
Nick: I'm angry about this. Oh, he's healed.
Josh: But so weird though, because it was like we just saw this doctor just fucking reeling on— and at the end the client's like, oh, I send them the edits, like, I— they say, oh, it looks like he's acting. It's like, yeah, he was. He was making up all these stories. He's like improv.
Tommy: Yeah.
Josh: And they're like, they're like, oh no, but he's like a real doctor. I'm like, I know, I don't get it either.
Nick: He said he found the cream at the bottom of a tomb and had to run from a boulder. You're like, yeah, that's— you go to medical school to do that shit, don't you?
Josh: So weird.
Nick: But yeah, it is, it is decided because you guys Guys, maybe, maybe nothing will ever come of your podcast.
Tommy: Yeah, that's real fucking hurtful. A lot of effort.
Nick: Maybe nothing will happen, but it will always lead you to something else. Yeah, you know, all, all of this experience, we're all gonna die.
Tommy: Or to a pokey addiction.
Nick: You guys are like, uh, on a campfire under the bridge, you're like, Capper was right, wouldn't be under this bridge without it.
Tommy: But that's— it's philosophical and deep. Take it further.
Nick: Yeah.
Tommy: What do you think? Like in terms of that taking you somewhere?
Nick: Yeah, well, that's the thing. I remember when my mate and I, a great comedian, Jack Drews, we were writing the sketch show for Melbourne Fringe once. We wrote this entire series, kind of— it was kind of based on True Detective, but it was about a drip coming from a roof in the ABC shop where I used to work. Like in Westfields.
Josh: Are they still around, ABC shops?
Nick: Oh no, no. I was on, I was in one of the last ones in Chatswood in Sydney.
Tommy: There's one at Bondi Junction.
Josh: Do they only sell?
Nick: Only 4 years ago, was it? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They can't, they, it's just online now.
Josh: Yeah. Was it a good place to work?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: What was it?
Nick: Oh, it was awesome. So good to work. Yeah. And we just had old ladies coming in and asking you, you know, do you have this, I don't know, season of, of this detective series?
Josh: Is that how you got the comedy bit on ABC?
Nick: Was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just rang my store manager manager and I said, man, do you still know that bloke that looks after the whole channel? He's like, yeah, mate, you remember Capner who worked in Chatswood? Yeah, he does comedy now. So if you can slot him in, you can slot him in after Four Corners. That'd be sick. Yeah, no worries. I owe you one after you gave me that, that bananas in pyjamas toy for my kid that time. Yeah, cool. But yeah, he—
Tommy: Yeah.
Josh: So there's a drip.
Nick: So there was a drip with like a drip and we're trying to find it anyway. We put so much work into the show, and every now and then we'd go on these little riffs and go, oh yeah, that, that sketch would be funny, or whatever. And then we started rehearsing it and everything like that, and we had all these weird sketches that we kind of really wanted to do. And then one day I was thinking, I was like, this isn't working as a whole thing. And then we both realized, fuck, we've got to throw this whole thing out and just do the sketches that we want to do. But then you go, fuck, that is so disheartening. Like this fucking book written basically. Yeah, yeah, they were never going to use. Be going, oh, we wouldn't have got to the Ferrero Rocher joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's where it came from, right? When I crumpled up the paper, it kind of looked like a giant Ferrero Rocher.
Josh: Yeah, and it's like one of us is gonna have to have this joke. Yeah, and I crumpled the paper, so it's fucking mine.
Nick: But yeah, exactly, I wouldn't have got to that destination without— yeah, yeah, with, without— and the show we love, we enjoyed, it was one of the best things we ever wrote. But without writing that fucking huge thing we weren't going to use, we wouldn't have got there, you know.
Josh: It's, um, Dr. Jason Fox, who I've had on the show a few times, yeah, he talks about the second simplicity. And so it's like you have an idea at the start and that's like the first simple version, then you have all of the complexity of like trying to work out ideas like what you're talking about that. But then there's the second simplicity, which is you look at an idea and like, well, that's fucking super simple, right? Yeah, it's really effective, but it's through all of the other complexity. Yeah, that you get to that. I feel like that is comedy in a lot of ways.
Nick: It is, man. Yeah, it is, it is. And it's kind of like, I don't know how heavy you guys edit or anything like that.
Josh: Nothing.
Nick: Nothing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so that's why I want to say this right now.
Josh: You're testing the waters.
Nick: The superior race, we are. No, no, no. Has anybody done that yet?
Tommy: We haven't asked for it yet.
Josh: We haven't had— we had one where at the last 30 seconds of an episode, one of the guests said a joke about his fiancée, which he thought was funny, and then she didn't like it. And he said, hey man, just to save the marriage, are you cool? And we sort of felt like we're in the marriage-saving business.
Nick: Yeah, exactly.
Josh: So we're all the one.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only if we get to meet your wife.
Tommy: I've since met her.
Nick: Yes. Do you guys find that as well? Like sometimes do you get too open on the podcast and your partners have pulled you up?
Tommy: Early days.
Josh: Yeah. My girlfriend doesn't listen anymore.
Tommy: Yeah, not as much.
Josh: Yeah, I think it's just easier.
Nick: Yeah, well, they've got lives and time.
Tommy: Well, that's it.
Nick: Like it takes an hour out out of the day.
Josh: Yeah. And I also don't like being there while Bri is listening. So that limits things.
Nick: Ah, yeah.
Josh: But even like when we have a good episode, I'll be like, you got to listen to this one. Yeah. Listen to this one. But then sure enough, she's like, oh, you said to listen to the show. I didn't listen to this one, but I listened to this one and you were saying this. The ones I give are normally like guests where they're great and we don't say anything.
Tommy: Anthony Kiedis wrote a book. Book, uh, Red Hot Chili Peppers. Um, and Flea, uh, wrote a book also later on, but he never read Anthony's book. The problem was he couldn't read the shit that Anthony was saying. Yeah, because he saw it differently. It was the same shit that was going on, but it just wasn't his experience. He's like, I didn't read the book because I couldn't read it. It's a version of partners listening to the bullshit we're spitting and going, I was fucking there, you idiot, that didn't happen. Because I do the same to my wife when she's telling us, I'm I was like, it's not what happened, but let's not get bogged down in the details. You won this one.
Josh: You know, it's a funny—
Tommy: it's— yeah, but it's weird. We do— there has been time. I think you build a filter.
Nick: Oh yeah.
Tommy: Like, you're not just gonna be— yeah, just randomly be a racist on stage because it's like, no, you, you've, you've got filters and you understand.
Josh: It's also not like filters as it is like, okay, what is your— like, we— I think we think we talk through our thoughts And, um, yeah, like, I think you'd be called out if you're a piece of shit though.
Tommy: Exactly.
Josh: I think like there's the idea though, it's like, oh, you know, you get, you get good at filtering out your racist bits.
Tommy: Like, we're not even that. Yeah, so you, but you, you have a system, you build a system. It's probably your values, like, yeah, it's pretty clear.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's also like, it's cool as well with podcasts because you do like, yeah, Phone Hacks, we say some pretty very wrong shit, like some terrible shit. But it's not a fa— and we address that. And we— that's it. That's the whole thing about our show, is to take the piss out of people that take life too seriously online. You know, people who write their feelings online, that's what we're ripping the piss out of. And we're also baiting the people that have no lives, that want to make— that don't see social media as trivial. You know what I mean? It is trivial. It's like funny, but also It's cool because that's the greatest thing about podcasts. If people are offended by your podcast or my podcast, they just turn it off.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: You know, it's like, oh fuck, I'm not going to listen to another episode of this.
Josh: Yeah. Have you had any absolute nightmare? Because the interesting thing about Phone Hacks is it's not just like ours is very self-contained, right? So it's like if you listen, you could get offended or whatever with what you guys do. The actual hacks end up going outside of the podcast platform.
Tommy: Can you just explain? If someone has a concept.
Nick: Yeah, so on, on my podcast, the Phone Hacks Podcast, uh, we, um, so what we do is we go, we roll a dice to see what we go through in each other's phones. So it's me, comedian Mike Goldstein, we have a guest. And so you can either go through notes, draught tweets, uh, camera roll, or search history. So, you know, We go through that in each other's phones. Obviously the guests, sometimes they don't want us to go through a certain thing, so we're like, that's fine, you know, that's cool. And, um, we'll have to get you guys on actually.
Tommy: And, uh, not with my fucking sips, not with my notes.
Josh: Bring down the whole business.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah, all my racist notes.
Josh: Yeah, he actually, anytime he has it, just puts it in notes.
Nick: Who's Anthony Kiedis? I'll be Flea. Yeah, you can be Flea. I put my dick on the microphone each time time before he comes there. Um, yeah, but, um, yeah, but then we, uh, what we do is at the end we roll another dice to see, uh, what we can hack on each other's phones. So, you know, uh, it's either a Facebook post or a tweet or Instagram. So we have pre-prepared hacks that we can do. So one time Mike got me to text my uncle to say, uh, I had a dream we 69 last night.
Tommy: And, uh, how close are you with your uncle?
Josh: Oh, not 69 close.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, you know, sometimes I wish it was that close, you know what I mean?
Josh: What did he say?
Nick: But he said, uh, I hope it's just a dream and doesn't become a reality.
Josh: Yeah, do you think he was flirting?
Nick: Yeah, well, you know, that's— I moved away from Sydney for a reason. Yeah. So yeah, a lot of— we've had ones that are really— yeah, no, I haven't received like threats or anything, but one time, you know, in the height of the MeToo movement, I might got me to post on my Facebook, Nanette, more like no, no, no, thank you.
Tommy: Like, yeah, I mean, it's pretty low level, but it's— yeah, it's— I could imagine a lot of people trigger a lot of people.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: Then like I had friends who were girls and stuff that wrote me messages going, man, take— I know it's part of your podcast, but I would take that down. Everyone's very sensitive about this at the moment. And yeah, so I just had to take it down. I was living in fear, you know what I mean? Like, imagine how many people in the industry would have screenshotted that. And I've like, I've hung out with Hannah Gadsby, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I've had beers with her and shit, you know what I mean? It could be—
Tommy: stand by the— stand by the tweet. Sweet.
Nick: Yeah, yeah. Also, it's terrible because my mates on Facebook started arguing about it. So one of my best mates, he was like, he didn't like the Nanette special, so he sent it to his girlfriend and he goes, see, Cap is a comedian and even he thinks it's shit. And then she goes, it's— can't you see this? It's for his fucked podcast. He's baiting you. So he's arguing on the post with another guy who's saying it was good.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah.
Nick: And then I've got another friend, you know, some farmer in Adelaide that was like, yeah, I didn't like it either. Comedy is subjective. And I was like, fuck, guys, can't you see that you are in a trap? It's like your mates walking into the trap. They're like, there's like a carrot dangling and all your dumb mates are walking in there going straight for the carrot.
Tommy: It's a squeaky toy, you fucking idiot.
Nick: All your mates that are intelligent are standing around the trap trapped on. There's something fishy about this. This is too easy. This is like a microwave meal.
Josh: Yeah, exactly. Um, did you ever have to take down an episode, or have you ruined any guest lives?
Nick: Oh, heaps. Like, yeah, tons. Uh, yeah, no, we've, we haven't— we've had to edit some, some things out. Uh, some—
Josh: what's that process been like?
Nick: Uh, yeah, pretty brutal. Um, yeah, because the guest is like, no, I do not want that on there. Or some guests have just bowed out totally. They're like, I'm not going to do a hack. Like, I've been in the episode.
Tommy: They told you before?
Nick: No, like in the episode, like just tore everything down.
Tommy: Stop record.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, oh no, no, we're cool with it. We're like, oh yeah, cool.
Josh: It's only the premise of the show. You come on to the game show, you know, Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, but you don't want to answer any questions?
Nick: Um, yeah, once we had, uh, Adam Rosenbach, who's a great comedian, but years ago he, um, he got roasted on Twitter. He wrote some tweet and it fucking went ballistic. And, um, then badly, like badly. Yeah, yeah, and the viral poor guy. And that's what the episode is about, is about how it can go wrong. And then he was like, nah man, I'm sorry, I have I have too many. I have— I'm triggered.
Tommy: What did he say? Can you find it?
Nick: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, please don't do it. Um, yeah, I shouldn't have meant— shouldn't have named him actually. Um, because we don't remember. Yeah, yeah, fuck.
Tommy: What I think though is we're at a time where—
Nick: but that was totally cool by us. We were like, man, that— and it was a great episode because it was insightful.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: Of how it can go wrong. And it made me think a lot, like, fuck, you know what I mean?
Josh: Do you think that there's going to be an expiry date to the podcast? Like, do you think people are going to get too woke, or do you think that we're at peak wokeness? And, or maybe the second wokeness is being like, ah, this social media shit doesn't matter, like, let's just chill the fuck out.
Nick: Yeah, I think there is that. Yeah. And I, I still have huge anxiety about going into the podcast because you're like, fuck, what's going to happen? And, you know, because you've got to write a message to someone or something like that. And but also there is a freeing— there's a stage I went through about, I don't know, 2 or 3 months ago, like we're nearly 100 episodes in there, where it was just freeing. Just like, yeah, social media is a joke. Who cares? Who cares?
Josh: Do you now just get drunk, tweet whatever you want and say, ah, I was doing the podcast?
Nick: There is some funny shit sometimes. Well, I remember one time I posted a heartfelt thing about my granddad, like, I miss my granddad.
Tommy: And then someone wrote, phone hacks, post a storey about the Zambia and yeah, yeah, the Sultan, they'll be like, bullshit.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, like, no, you wouldn't write this, only a dork would write something this heartfelt. Yeah, so it does come back on us a lot. And it, and it, uh, because it's highly well known in the comedy community um, that, you know, we're doing it, that people, comedians will play jokes on each other. So one comedian said, hey man, uh, like he didn't say hey man, but he wrote in a post, hey guys, I've gone through a lot of depression lately, um, thank you so much for everybody helped me through it. And someone actually commented phone hacks, which is not funny but also very funny because people sent me the screenshot. You found it really funny, man? Were you on the show? Was this guy on the show? And I was like, no. No, like he was on the show.
Tommy: I saw the first time I connected with Ash Williams. We had coffee together. I hadn't— I'd known who he was. He knows my bro. But before we were mates, I bumped into him at Casati's Deli. Oh yeah, it was the morning he was doing your show. Yeah, we had two extra strong lattes. I couldn't believe how many he pumped.
Nick: Oh man, he is, he is a walking latte.
Tommy: What did you do to him? I can't remember.
Nick: He told me. We did some great things to Ash. There was one where— oh, the, the recent one, we got him— it was the night before New Year's, we got him to post, uh, on Twitter, 'Does anyone know where I can get coke in Melbourne?' And it was so great. And because I did see this—
Tommy: oh my God, I saw it in real time. I didn't know it was That was a phone hack.
Nick: Yeah, so Mike Goldstein, um, my, you know, my, my accomplice in this, uh, he— him and Ash went and played tennis together, and he said Ash just looked frustrated the whole time. And he said at halftime, he goes, man, I've got to take it down. Like, at halftime, he's like, it's all too real. I had to change. He's like, man, I've got to take it down. This is ruining me.
Josh: Yeah, his dealers will get pissed.
Nick: Like, the phone's just ringing, you know. I forget what— I forget if we got him to do something else that was— that was— oh, on Instagram, we got him to post something. Anyway, you can look back through it.
Josh: He doesn't want to be it anyway.
Tommy: Actually, it's a hard one to look at if it's a phone hack or not.
Nick: Oh man, and it's— this is a— you guys love this story. I told this storey on, on the podcast, but it was hilarious. So he's a big tennis head, and he says to Mike, oh, you can— we can play at this— the best club in Melbourne, the best club in Melbourne. He goes, they all know me there. I'm the king, I'm Ash Williams, right? So Mike is stoked, he's like, man, this is the best, I get to play at this like great club in Melbourne. He rocks up and then Ash goes, all right man, don't walk through the doors, what you need to do is just duck under the windows to the court. So they're sneaking into the tennis club and, um, Ash walks— this is how cool the guy is, I love him so much. He just walks up to the security guard guy and he goes, hey man, can you flick on the lights here? Yeah, I mean, can you flick on the lights? There's no fucking lights here. Carry on, man. I'm keen to play a match, you know what I mean? And the security guard just like, yeah, okay, just turns the lights on and they're just playing a game at the most prestigious club.
Josh: They're at Rod Laver Arena.
Tommy: That's crazy. Classic.
Nick: So good. I'm so jealous of that confidence. Like, I wish I could do it, you know.
Josh: But then he pussied out when it came to the coke thing. He took it down. It's funny what triggers people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nick: So I was hoping to see the DMs. One of the best ones we got was Cameron James on a live episode. Yeah, once again, one of the best guests ever. He was on Rove's TV show that they— I think, I think it got cancelled after 2 episodes or something.
Tommy: Happening.
Nick: But I thought, oh, he must have Rove's number then. So I said to him, got him to text, hey brah, just chasing that invoice from the episodes I was on.
Tommy: Had he not been paid or something?
Josh: No, no, but it's funny because Rove's probably also been like—
Tommy: no, but I was hoping there was truth to unpaid invoices. Yeah, yeah, no, the show gets cancelled. So it's like, obviously I get it, I get it. Yeah, but maybe it was unpalatable.
Josh: But if you're Rove, you're not knowing who fucking has invoices to be paid, right?
Nick: That's the greatest thing about the joke, which is like, because then Rove's on the phone to accounts being like, do we owe this company money?
Tommy: And what did he say back?
Nick: He didn't reply back for like ages, and then we're just like, we just had to buckle and go, hey man, just tell him you're on the podcast, you know.
Tommy: And so yeah, it was all a ploy to get Rove to know about your podcast.
Nick: And then wrote just like, thank Christ he wrote that. Yeah, he's like, thank God, because there was some discrepancy.
Tommy: Like, and it could have been a Jimmy Grant style George Kalambaris.
Nick: Yeah, he paid everybody, but he said there was some screw up thing with the payroll or something like something else.
Josh: That's what George said as well.
Nick: That's what George said. George Kalambaris. Yeah, there's been a screw up from day one with your pay. And it's so weird that that stuff's all in the news now because like I've got heaps of friends that were chefs. I worked in kitchens for a bit and man, you're like, how does this— how did people not know everyone was getting fucked over in hospitality for so long?
Josh: Like, do you think that there's— on the George thing, because initially I was like, ah, this guy. But then I was also thinking of like, is the whole system fucked? Like, is there a, is there a way of doing it where people can be successful in this space? Because it's not like he would have gone out to lose his house and all that.
Nick: So you think they can?
Tommy: If you're running payroll, which we do, yeah, I have to manually, uh, post a pay run, but then there's the bit where you then have to send the cash. And so when you're doing it at hundreds of people level, you should have a system in place. But if you fuck it one bit, it could fuck 200 people's pays for that cycle. You miss the— like, it is. But if there is a gronk in charge, yeah, high chance of it happening, right?
Nick: Yeah, yeah. Well, but hospitality is a weird thing because it's a lifestyle job. So it's lifestyle. You— if you're a chef, you live the restaurant. You don't just go home like a 9-to-5, you know. It's that kind of—
Tommy: you live at the restaurant.
Nick: Yeah, it's a culture. So that's where you get paid in, culture and status. And that's why most chefs are fucking high on drugs, you know. You know, so that's what takes the piss. Like, you do get to the big wages if you work hard for 10 years on nothing.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: Then you get to the big status. But also, you know, you're getting fucked over for those first 10 years. It's kind of like comedy.
Josh: So that's a whole culture thing though, right?
Nick: Like, so if like culture thing—
Josh: yeah, George went up in that way and all that sort of thing, it's like, oh, this is how we're— this is how we're doing things.
Tommy: Well, George, I saw him write about it and it made sense. He's like, I'm great at motivating teams, being creative with food, getting everybody excited in the business. Yeah. He's like, I let it all slip. He fucked it. He wasn't doing it. And then he lets some, you know, the focus isn't there. He's a creative guy that makes food and knows how to make a killer souvlaki, but then absolutely destroys the other side of it. And because you can be great at brand and business the side of getting people through the door, but not the other shit.
Nick: Well, man, yeah, it's like comedy as well. Sometimes you do things for status. You do, you know, you go, oh yeah, I will get this expensive venue that will, you know, that, that I'm paying through the nose for. But it's cool. It looks cool. You know what I mean? This venue is in this spot and I look cool.
Josh: You need to do the Ash Williams and just go, guys, can you turn the lights on here? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nick: Just walk into the Athenaeum. Hey, yo, I'm here. What's going on? I got the TryBooking set up. Yeah, there's going to be people coming around, 50 people coming in to fill this. But if you know anyone that wants to come in an hour, please. Security guard's family sitting there. Yeah, but yeah. And then you have someone like my girlfriend's helping me out with my stuff and she's like, why? Why do you— why have you done this? And you're like, yeah, because it's cool. You know what I mean? Like, you get an ad in this magazine and it looks cool and she's like, like, you are paying so much money for this and you are not getting the returns. Why would you do that? Yeah, it's like, you can perform in this space for this amount of money. And you go, yeah, but it's a culture thing, you know what I mean?
Tommy: You—
Nick: those people like you at that venue and then they give you more gigs and stuff. And she's like, yeah, but the figures still do not add up.
Josh: You're spending $20 grand a year on Yellow Pages.
Nick: What happens with your phone number. You've bought this much in Ferrero shares. How about Ferrero shares?
Josh: Ferrero share shares. There's definitely—
Nick: Cadbury is just as good. You get fruit and nut. It's got the same amount of satisfaction.
Tommy: You should leave a Ferrero Rocher under everybody's seat, open with that joke, and then at the end say, everyone's a Ferrero Rocher under you. I want you to all say—
Josh: So, yeah, so the lens, lens of that through Kappa's girlfriend that's just costing money.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah, just—
Josh: but that's a status thing.
Nick: That's kind of the same decision my, um, my, uh, my cousin made. He worked for a famous chef for a while, and I think it was in Brisbane or somewhere. And, you know, everyone was like, yeah, but you're working for the king. He's like, but I'm getting paid shit all money. You know, everyone's on drugs, we work fucking 20, 20 hours a day. And it's like, yeah, but you're learning. And he's like, like, he was happy for a few years. He's like happy to get the status, but he's like, fuck it, I'm, I'm not going anywhere with this. Like, he goes, it could be a while. Or he just went to the mines, got a shit job for a while as a chef there, just cooking for miners, got paid a fuckload of money, and then just bought a house in Byron Bay and now works at a really cool cafe in Byron Bay. You know what I mean? Like, there's no—
Josh: exactly. If you can choose to not play the game, there's so Yeah, games that you opt into.
Nick: Yeah, you can make your own game, you know. Whereas there's probably some guys who made the wrong decision, walked away from that, maybe walked away from it 6 months after 6 months of training under that great chef, go straight to the mines, and then they're forever depressed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, oh, I got a house and a car or whatever, but I'm depressed. You know, this, this— exactly. It's all types of games you can play, but you gotta— you do have to say to yourself— I remember I was flying to Sydney to do gigs that were for $150, $100 a night and sleeping on the couch. And I was doing all these gigs. I was like, yeah, but you get to play at this place, you know, one of the best comedy gigs in Sydney and you got to go with the sums and go, no, I'm paying $400 for a flight.
Josh: Do you need to work out? Because there's always like people say, don't do free work, or they sell these different things, or even it's like like, um, you've got to think about your lifestyle.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: Is there a, is there a point in someone's career where you just need to not be the shit kicker necessarily, but just do the grinding and those types of gigs to then be on the other side and get to choose?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, I reckon so. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you got to do, you got to be smart. Like, you've got to do the smart grind, I reckon. Like, you still got it.
Josh: What does that mean?
Nick: What does it mean to be There were some gigs I would be going out doing open mics every night and I loved it. Like, I still love it. I don't go out and do it as much now, but I want to get back into it. But it's hard. I've got a nice house now, like, I don't own it or anything, but my housemates and I, we're all great community and we have great fun. And so you want to go out as less, but I would always go out and there'd be open mics you do where you go, oh yeah, I'm gonna learn something from this. Be a tough crowd, you're trying out new gear. But then there'd be some open mics where the host— there was just a shit vibe in the room. It would be very poorly managed, and the audience that were there, they were like, didn't want to be there at all. And you go, I probably should have been at home writing rather than doing this. Didn't— you know what I'm saying? Like, I could use my time more effectively.
Josh: You have to be there though to realise that.
Nick: Yeah, you do. Yeah, yeah, you have to do a lot of those shit gigs to, to really realise that, but you start to value your time, you know. So, so if you're not doing the grind in terms of, of, uh, of going out doing open mics, then you've got to be doing the grind in terms of writing. Like, there's some comedians who I never see at open mics. Like, Nate Valvo, such a good comic, like one of the best. I never see him at one open mic, and he does a show like a whole new hour and it is sick. Like, and whenever he gets up at a paid gig, it is awesome. And you're like, wow. And it's because he's just sitting at the computer writing furiously, like something that I don't do. But I go out and do heaps of mics, you know what I mean?
Josh: So different for everyone.
Nick: Yeah. Yeah.
Josh: I was talking to Hamish Blake the other day and he was saying how he would try and write and he would write for days and be like, this is all shit. Like he's worked out that that's not his mechanism to get to the funny shit.
Nick: Yeah, exactly, man. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to find your own thing. But yeah, that's how Valvo's doing the grind. He's sitting down.
Josh: Did you try the writing thing? Did you like spend a lot of time insular, or do you think that that's even something that you evolved to over time?
Nick: Yeah, I did evolve to that. Yeah. When I was doing comedy in Sydney, I don't know, it was cool. It was like a kind of a real weird ragtag crew. There were a bunch great comics but also incredibly looked down on people that worked, you know what I mean? Like, if a bloke took a heap of notes to a gig, you go, oh, what a fucking dork, you know? But also, we didn't see great comics with a lot of notes. You'd only see the bad ones that were working really hard. But then later on, you see those bad people that are working hard, and as long as they're a nice person they get real good and they overtake you, you know. So, so then you're like, oh, fuck. Some people don't have it. Some people, or they're not doing the grind in the right way.
Josh: Is that the Australian thing, do you think? Is that the— is it connected to the tall poppy, stay in your lane sort of shit?
Nick: They used to— yeah, that was the kind of the, uh, yeah, when I was starting it, you know, when I was starting, I was like, yeah, it was the tall poppy thing. Yeah, look at this dork working hard, whatever, whatever, idiot, you know. You got to go on there, you got to practice, you got to do heads over mics or whatever. But now it's totally changed. Like, you know, now there's heaps of drink tokens at comedy gigs because no comedians drink. They're all working hard, they're looking over their notes, and it's awesome. It's way better in my opinion, you know, rather than— because you could fluke it back then. You could fluke it in music, you know. You could just be a fucking heroin addict and hit it big, you know what I mean? Um, not that— not that Jimi Hendrix was a fluke, but see, that's the thing, he was doing the grind Apparently he would take the guitar to the toilet with him. And if he saw an amateur playing guitar, if they had some cool, weird thing they were doing, he'd always ask them. Yeah. Apparently he'd just walk up to people at open mics or whatever, or at parties that were playing guitar and go, what's that thing you're doing now? What's that doing? You know what I mean? Like, yeah. So, so it's cool, you know, and you have— so now, yeah, everyone's working really hard and it's awesome.
Josh: Well, it's like celebrating, celebrating ambition. Like, I— even Simon Taylor, who we've had on, I feel like there's heaps of— I did a short doco on him a few years ago where he went to all these different, um, uh, he did like 4 stand-up things in a night.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: And so many comedians are like real negative about him. And it's— I feel like I talked to him about it and there is— he's got so much ambition.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: And he's always doing stuff and trying stuff and it seems like people can't even see see that. Like, you take away the comic side of it, like the humor, whether you like that or not. Like, I think that there should be that sort of celebration of people just fucking putting in the work.
Nick: Yeah, man, exactly. You know, and that's what held me back for a large amount of time. I think that I would see someone like Simon Taylor or something, and I would be like, rather than say, hey, how can I learn from this guy? Go, oh yeah, fuck that guy, he's fucking working hard on Twitter or writing or trying to get media opportunities, that's, that's terrible. Or, you know what I mean, you get, you go, yeah, but he's, his stuff's good but it doesn't hit anyone in the heart, you know, or whatever. And you'd be like, and it went from that to me turning around going, well, he's making a living off it, I still work in a warehouse. Yeah, uh, no, there is a lot of things I can learn from this guy, you know what I mean? There is a, from people like him, there is a lot of stuff I can learn from them, you know?
Josh: And I guess you even see the scene that is like the online comedian scene, like the, the guys like, say, Christian Hull, who we've had on the show before, who is like, he's built an audience.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: And then he's been able to transition and make it work in front of crowds. And I think that the comedians that will thrive are the ones that are not necessarily Christian and all that, but can play in the same arena and game and be like, oh, I can fucking learn. Like, it doesn't mean I shouldn't fucking do YouTube, or if you, if you tweet too much, you're a tryhard. But that's actually what it requires to be, you know, have impact in 2020.
Nick: Oh man, that's it. And there is a new type of comedy fan going, you know, like, I'm, you know, I'm not gonna— that you see, the people that survive are the ones like the YouTubers or whatever that survive are the ones that still take, like, work hard at the stand-up. Because at the end of the day, the crowds are gonna stop coming if you're just a one-trick pony.
Josh: Yeah, definitely.
Nick: They, they will stop coming. Like, and it's weird, you know, you can be as big as YouTubers you want or whatever, but they will stop. They will stop coming, you know. But it's also bred this weird type of audience member that some— I've gone to some YouTubers' shows and things like that and they don't laugh, like, because they found out the person's not funny on stage. Yeah, but they're there for the merch and the selfie at the end.
Josh: Yeah, well, it's even thinking about podcasting, which is weird, but the weirdness in, like, say, the Daily Talk Show doing live shows, like, we're not comedians.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: And so there is— and there, there are comedians that are storytellers. Like, you, you might not have those big punchline moments Yeah. So I think that that's what's interesting too, is maybe it will start to get more defined.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: But it won't be at the moment. It's like YouTubers are good at building an audience because they have this thing. The real power is when it's craftspeople who fucking love stand-up.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: Who love doing like the joke.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: Focusing on that, doing YouTube and then being able to bring it in.
Nick: Exactly.
Josh: That's the real power.
Nick: And it's cool. Like, it's admirable, you know what I mean? Like, I remember years ago, Brett Blake and I did a show in Newcastle and that Isaac Butterfield guy asked if he could open for us and it was in like a shitty pub and it was like 50 people. And yeah, he just came and opened for us. He was a real nice guy. And yeah, I talk to him sometimes whenever I see him or whatever. Yeah. And he stand-ups like, all right, you know what I mean? Like, I've never really seen it, but it's not really my kind of vibe yet. He's like such a good bloke. And also he was— he lived in Newcastle, he couldn't do open mics, uh, like as many as we could in Sydney or whatever. So he's like, how can I just play to more people? Yeah. And that's when he started doing the YouTube videos.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: You know what I mean? And people fucking love him, they go there, and I'm like, good on him, you know what I mean?
Josh: Like, was there a moment— like, obviously it sounds like there was a shift in realising that like beliefs weren't serving you? Did you have a specific moment where— because I think I even catch myself where it's like when you're looking too much to what other people are doing or shit like that. Did you have any specific, uh, moment for you where you, where you made a conscious effort of like, actually, this is— these ideas aren't serving?
Nick: Yeah, I think, uh, there was a few things that have— I remember I was talking to my cousin once and he's like you've been doing stand-up for like 7 years, you're still broke or whatever. Um, do you, do you ever evaluate what material works with other material? Like, do you record this down? And I'm like, Ferrero, oh yeah. And sometimes there's no, there's no formula to stand-up. There's no right or wrong way to do it. That is the greatest thing about it. And it's the greatest thing about podcasting as well. No right or wrong way. You cannot— if you're giving someone advice on stand-up, you are just telling them what works for you. And I always—
Tommy: most advice, right? It's all— it always comes from—
Nick: yeah, preface it, you know what I mean? But it's not like engineering where you're like, no, that fixed you. Yeah, you definitely can't put a sphere on top of a pole, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, maybe.
Josh: Is that true? Apparently, what is that?
Nick: It's not going to be a good bridge if it's a sphere. It's sitting on a sphere.
Josh: It's a ball.
Nick: Oh no, I've seen— pull out— I forgot. Yeah, yeah, I forgot that I walked into a fucking— there's a sphere coming for me.
Tommy: Mr. Seth, can we cheque in a sphere? Go on.
Josh: A sphere is a ball though, isn't it?
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: And on a pole. Yeah, I understand.
Nick: I mean, I overestimated you. I thought you autism guys were at least smart. I mean, what else you got going on? Um, yeah, uh, but yeah, yeah, so yeah, so your cousin fucking— yeah, but he said like, yeah, you know, have you ever seen— have you ever thought what works better, whatever? And I was like, oh yeah, true. But also there was a couple of festivals and things that I did with other comedians, and whenever I did a lineup show on with them, I was like— not to blow my own horn— I was just as good, if not better. But I was playing to 20 people a night or under, and they were playing to 100 or 200 people a night. So I was like, what are they doing that I'm not doing? And I had to— you have to shed a fair bit of shame. Like, because whenever I posted something, I'm like, I don't want to annoy people. I don't want to be one of those guys that's online. And I realised it's only comedians, it's only other comedians that I care.
Josh: Is it your own voice? Like, maybe it's also your own voice because you were so negative on that that. Exactly. Around other people.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: And now look at you, you're on the Skybus promoting gigs. That was great. That was a great Insta storey that you held my attention. I was fucking—
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. So there's that. There's a fair bit of shame in that, you know what I mean? Like when you're going, oh, you guys are just being on the Skybus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh: The problem with the Skybus is I feel like it's quite expensive for being on a bus.
Nick: Oh man. Yeah, exactly.
Josh: It's $25. Bucks.
Nick: And there was this thing where you, for ages, you could get an Ola to the airport for like nearly the price of a Skybus.
Josh: Really?
Nick: But now it's like, they're like, nah, fuck you, this was a, this deal was too easy. It was a microwave dinner for Ola.
Tommy: It's 20 bucks to get the train from Bondi to the airport, like from Bondi Junction. Yeah, they're all expensive. There's only one way to, like, for a lot of people, it's the cheaper way. It's just when you've got two people, you may as well get a cab.
Nick: And that's unicycle. Unicycle with a backpack. Yeah. All you need is a whole lot of time I'm in a hole.
Tommy: When you got 3 people, it makes no sense to get the Skybus. Yeah.
Josh: And so the reason I brought up the Skybus was because you were doing Insta storeys where you're like, hey guys, like, here are some of the things, and you just sort of went through and promoted a bunch of stuff.
Nick: Yeah. No comedian would like that. Comedians would be looking at that going, kappa, fucking shut up. No one wants to hear about your storey about how you go to Adelaide next week while you're on the Skybus. Boring. But, you know, people do like it. I was doing cooking doing things for a while where I'd cook a meal and I would just document me cooking the meal on Instagram storeys and just all the fucking— Yeah, yeah. Oh man, a Beef Wellington, man, that is hard yards, but it is delicious. It is definitely the opposite of a microwave meal. I was mentally healthy after that, you know what I mean? The satisfaction I had. But, you know, heaps of my mates were writing to me going, fuck you, Kappa, because, you know, we got those minuscule dots on the Insta story, like, knowing you've posted like 100 in 24 hours. They're like, fuck you, Kappa. But audience people were like, oh, this is sick. Like, you are definitely going to fuck up this Beef Wellington and I am here to watch this.
Josh: Do you say that? Do you have the honest conversations with comedy mates where they say, fuck you, Kappa? Like, there is the one where it's like, I see what's happening.
Tommy: I'm—
Josh: I can see their projection and anxieties and all that sort of thing. Do you ever say, like, are you ever close enough or feel like you can have the conversation where it's like, hey, man, Do you think that maybe the reason why you're saying this is because you're a bit sad?
Nick: Oh man, that's cool. That's the coolest thing about doing comedy for a while now. So you've— you kind of get good friends and, uh, there's a little bit of competition between you, but it's healthy competition. You're happy for each other and also you know your place in comedy. Before I was like, everyone should be Bill Hicks, everyone should be weird. Yeah, but then you— then I have mates now in common I never thought I would have that are just like like, I'm mainstream, this is what I do, I talk about this, I don't fucking break out of any level, that's what I do. And, and in a way, you see the art in what they're doing. And it just takes just as much effort to be an alternative or a weird comedian to, to, to get a broad audience, to, you know, to appeal to everybody, or to appeal to a certain demographic. Is there's an art to that as well. So you appreciate those And then that's also kind of opens you up to be like, um, yeah, take, take the real piss out of each other, you know what I mean?
Josh: Like, you know, um, what, you know, so you don't take it to heart or you don't feel like it's a—
Nick: oh man, it always hurts.
Tommy: Yeah, yeah.
Nick: And that's what makes it funny because then you go to hurt them more. Like, you know, Ben Knight, you know, I live with him and he's a— he's the greatest comic, actually. He's another guy you should get on. He's fucking great. And he he always talks about being a teacher, and teachers go to his shows because he used to be a teacher and everything. And I always pay him— any plays guitar with a loop pedal? And fuck, I ripped the piss out of him about that. Like, you know what I mean? Because yeah, cheering! I'm like, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!' That's it, man. It's so good every time he's going to a gig. I'm like, 'Oh, what are you gonna do, sing your little jingles?' And I just don't want impressed on me. Like boom ba-bum bum. Oh yeah. Ooh. 8 years. And he's never stopped roasting him about it. And in turn, he'll roast me. He's like, uh, Kappa, yeah, I'm a fucking idiot. Jump around and cover myself in oil or whatever, you know what I mean? Yeah, he always— and yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so that, that's great as well, you know. Yeah, yeah, we always do. Um, Brett Blake had this great routine where he always said the same— he always delivered it the same way. He always goes, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys. I'm a professionalist. I'm a professional removalist. I'm gonna be breaking both of your shit. And anytime he was saying that, every comedian would always like do a storey of it, like the Holy Grail, you know what I mean? It was called the Holy Grail. And anytime he walked into a room, everyone would do an impression of it, you know what I mean? And sure, it would tear away a small piece of his soul, uh, but it was It was hilarious.
Josh: So is it festival time? Like, we're like, we were talking to Limo and he was saying he just did Fringe.
Tommy: Yeah, the comedy festival coming up.
Josh: Yeah. What's your plans?
Nick: Yeah, I got Melbourne Comedy Festival coming up. I got Adelaide Fringe. Yeah. And it's all the whole show is about the tuxedo trip. And then I got Sydney Comedy Festival. I don't know whether the tickets are available for that one yet. Oh, there's tickets available for Warrnambool as well. I'm doing one night in Warrnambool. Yeah, it's not a festival or anything. It's, you could say it's my festival. Festival. It's actually— fuck it, it is a festival. It's Warrnambool Comedy Festival and it's just me.
Tommy: You're driving down there, you drive back that night or do an overnight?
Nick: I think I'm gonna try and stay down there because, man, it's a long story. But oh, it's a long drive. Have I mixed this up with another— Warrnambool's on the sea, right? Yeah, so they had a whaling station. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I acted years ago—
Josh: whaling station.
Tommy: You can see—
Josh: I've seen whales, but whaling I don't know what that means. Is whaling like killing whales?
Nick: Killing whales.
Josh: They don't kill whales, do they?
Nick: I could have led you on such a great tangent there. It's like a place where they come in like a servo and you pat them. It's like a game park for whales.
Josh: It's a viewpoint for whales. They're not killing whales.
Nick: You stand on the lookout and watch whales and you jerk off.
Josh: That's what whaling is.
Nick: It's the noise that you make.
Josh: You're like, oh, that's right.
Nick: That's what they call it. I thought I was the only guy. Yeah, no. Yeah, but apparently I had— well, I did. Not apparently. I was there. I acted in this thing where there's this apparently some kind of, kind of place where you do those tours of the whaling station and it's got big, like a big projection that projects onto this waterfall and that's kind of like an old— the history of the whaling station. And yeah, yeah.
Josh: So like a science work sort of shoot or like Sovereign Hill where they've got the whole setup.
Nick: Yeah, exactly.
Tommy: I think I've been there. I've been there.
Nick: Oh yeah, apparently Tom Ballard used to work there. It was kind of his first, one of his first talent things.
Tommy: Yeah.
Nick: And, um, so, um, yeah, so I, for, yeah, for 2 days I had to sit on this ship in this green screen background. Like, it was fucking awesome at this like 200-year-old ship in this big studio in Port Melbourne. And, um, it just had to sit and pretend we were getting hit by waves and things. I had to dress as an old-timey kind of guy and go, oh, there's the whale, like, there she blows, and throw the harpoon and everything. And, um, yeah, we had to do these other things where they go, welcome to the whaling station, uh, if you can handle it, whatever. So apparently there's these big projections of me.
Tommy: I've read this right down in my— yeah, yeah.
Nick: So I kind of want to—
Tommy: you never went there, you just did it in Port Melbourne and now it's in—
Nick: yeah.
Josh: So do you— are you gonna do the the gig green screen from Port Melbourne.
Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of the selling points actually. Like, if you've been to the whaling station, you're gonna love Nick Capper. He is sailor number 4. They're like, oh, that was my favourite sailor.
Tommy: Mate, we'll have to get you back on the show.
Nick: Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for coming. Well, thanks. Yeah, thanks for coming.
Josh: You're really kind.
Nick: I'll tell you guys, it's my studio now. That's one of the things. That's why I asked to be on the podcast is to go, hey, time to overtake this shit.
Tommy: Squatters' Law.
Josh: Yeah, that'd be good fun. Yeah, I think especially when Melbourne Comedy Festival starts.
Tommy: It's in March 23rd.
Nick: March.
Josh: Yeah, yeah, something.
Nick: Yeah. Yes, it's somewhere around that.
Josh: We need to get a whole list of— because we want to do more comedians. We haven't done that many.
Nick: Oh yeah.
Josh: 400 or 600 and something.
Nick: Yeah.
Josh: Yeah.
Nick: It's so weird.
Tommy: You've recommended about 7. Yeah. So yeah, yeah.
Nick: There? Yeah, yeah, I can hook you up. Yeah, great. Uh, yeah, I don't know, I think I found you guys because you had some other studio or something and we were doing some podcast. We had another studio in Abbotsford. Oh yeah, for a little bit. And I don't know how I found you guys, maybe on Instagram or something. But anyway, that's cool.
Josh: Yeah, great.
Nick: And it's so cool because like, yeah, I've been tuning in every now and then and I just love it because you can just, um, just sit in the car and just like not have to get too invested in it. Like, I'm a big fan of the develop, but I've got to be sitting there listening to every detail. Yeah, you know what I mean? When you've got, you know, you know, I don't know, one guy with autism and one guy with not many features, you know what I mean? It's kind of like you don't have to invest in that much, you know what I mean? Just joking. What a selling point.
Josh: Yeah, we need to get that on a poster. Thanks, mate. It's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Feel free to hit us up on Apple Podcasts with a review. We love that. Otherwise, see you tomorrow.
Tommy: See ya.
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