#541 – Diversifying Revenue With Ryan Jon/
- December 9, 2019
Ryan Jon is back! We chat about annual leave, job titles, diversifying our revenue, and Ryan’s advertising offer.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– Annual leave
– Ryan’s job title
– Radio and digital skills
– Ryan’s offer
– Diversifying our revenue
– The Singlet Sessions with JJ
Ryan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryan.jon
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 541. We got Ryan john in the building. Yeah.
Happy Monday to you, sir. You're up there with the most frequent guest. I mean, it's been pretty good because you actually have lived in the state for a bit the time that we've had this show. Yeah. Well, when I used to come by this as part of my stops, got a mom gonna do some work to cover the trip on tax comments at the boys.
What was the point of coming here today? Well, I'll tell you the idea of coming today someone else cancelled and also bring on
what are you doing in Melbourne right now you're feeling I'm in Melbourne now. Sort of I'm kind of, I've been half per a third Perth, a third Melbourne or third out on the farm in western Victoria. So that means what one third that means a lot like twice, two and a half times a week here in Melbourne. That right?
days away come in Melbourne. Okay, yeah, just coming in for bits and pieces. I took him there was a grand plans to come and work out of your office haven't done as much as you're gonna be in Melbourne. They've done it. I don't have you know, probably not but all starts with 2020 vision. I took Bodie to the little trains running your house. Really? Yeah, go to sales and trains. Absolutely awesome. When you go there. It was there yesterday. That's why I'm sunburn you actually were there. Yeah, cuz I the across the street is the dog park and OBJ Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you can walk there from mom's place or we filmed that thing with Dave there. Yeah, that's how I know about it. I'm sorry. I'm loving that you're living on my side of Melbourne tonight. I'm suburb life. Yeah. And when you're gonna join us, Josh, I mean I'm close to the freeway. I can easily access it I can go to shop I regularly.
It feels like you were in the US and then your home
to you guys.
I was in the US for eight days because Bridget my fiance only had five days off.
We just crammed it in. So it's like two weekends in the week in between. Is it a contentious issue around her and your life? Or was it okay? A little bit bitches like
Ryan just met his biological family. they've invited this to Thanksgiving. We've never met half of them. The bosses were like, yeah, it seems like a pretty good thing to go to say. Well, I'll be good. Have a nice I'll move not to let you Yeah, she definitely had moment like I asked breeze boss. When I was younger, I said, Hey, I want to surprise Bree. We we missed out on Miley Cyrus tickets in Melbourne. I want to surprise her and, and go and see Miley Cyrus on a Friday night in Sydney. Yep. And she'll just need to take the day off. And the boss said no, absolutely. Not really? Yeah. Did she have the annual leave? Or just so then? What's the point of annual I guess? The point is you need to sort of book ahead, potentially. So when my my best mates mom passed away day after we made the video for she died of m&a. I said to my boss, I'm gonna take tomorrow off and fly with
Melvin, the funeral, my best friend, best friend's mom. And even besides being my best friend's mom, I actually knew her really well as well. And now we're like not because you've only worked here, three months or less, you're still on probation, which means you haven't accrued annual leave. So like you just have a accrued a heart. Yeah. Yeah. So then, so I was like, Okay, then I spoke to Dave and I was like, Dude, this is bullshit. I can't believe it. But this is what they said, Hey, just threw it is what it is. You can't change it. So I went and did the brekkie show in the morning, and then after the shots, went to the boss's office, and I was like, I'm waving right now. Yeah, I'm not coming back. Ever like this on a Thursday. And the funerals on Friday? I was like, I'll be back on Monday. If I still have a job I'll be here but if not, I don't fucking care. I'm just gonna go Hey, yo, yo, hot.
After roll with dumphy I was like
fuck it puts it in perspective. Yeah.
It doesn't mean anything. These jobs when the people around you Yeah.
Living in that shit on
you haven't occurred enough. She is to grant broadcasters and I remember saying to myself, I just, I was like, I'll regret this the rest of my life if I don't go and even now I think about it. I'm like, I'm really glad I did that. Yeah, I should have gone insane. Miley Cyrus, let's be honest. Yeah. You should have walked out of your partners job for a while she quit.
I've really I've done stuff like I booked a job because it was funny. It was same boss about taking long periods of annual leave. And so I decided to surprise her one Christmas where I'm like, hey, I've booked a month for us to go to the US. No surprise, put it in, like the flights and she's like, but I haven't put an annual life. I'm like, I know. She ended up leaving. And we went on that trip. It was Yeah, it was great. Does she regret that now? That was perfect. It was actually one of the best moments ever. Because she got a new job before she went away. I quit my job and
In four weeks time or going away in that four weeks, I got a new job too. And so we were both going away with the idea that would come home jobs ready to go. And credit card the shit out of
it. The other thing too is I fucked up that I didn't realise they paid ahead. So
bright Hall, you know, get six K or whatever it is and then like you get you like 25
because they like when someone leaves you having to fork of extra cash. Yeah, it's been a bunch of redundancies across the radio landscape. Well, Southern Cross the stereo of racing. Yeah. Someone in the week you know your old mate. Oh, who's that? You're the favourite talent you worked with? Matt Tilly? Yeah, that
that was the people spoke.
Anyway, have you ever done it before? No, like a classic the business of restructuring. Got no
Yeah, we won't do that. But I spoke to someone the weekend they said that a redundancy was like super rattling and change their life in it in not the best way. Yeah. But then I've spoken to other people that like my it's actually the best thing ever. It's almost like those days ever have lots of good. That's actually my dad got made redundant three weeks ago he suffered in
a haze 68 or 69 that's a fourth retirement
because he was really unwell when I was in hospital and had to change jobs. And he was like, it's hard to like start a new career when you're 55 or whatever. And now he's like, is a 69 because he worked in a factory and you know, when you're in a factory, you get very good at that specific thing that you do, but you don't really know much else. Yeah, so I was like, What am I gonna do at age 70 go and learn how to what was this specific thing they did in the factory Tina, it was like he went from Monash University, but like in printing, you know how like that print like
1000 Fly Fly Oh like you know
it's just this big machine that's you know being printed and press. That's cool
Yeah, I don't know he's just like I got made redundant I was like okay, sure yeah. Like I said for Sanjay Yeah, but when you're gonna retire guys what's going to be the fees but now it's next Friday. I like the idea because I was saying this to a mate I was saying all their friend was made redundant. I was like, Oh, that's awesome and like I was pretty sad for them. But I feel like it's a you get a bunch of cash because I think it's like it was a lot of businesses to every every year that you've been there at a month. That's not how it works.
And so if you begin redundancy gets Yeah, bucket balloons. Yeah. And then if you're I'd like, what's a 10 year period. It's like a long term long service late so you've got that up your sleeve as well. Like it ends up being good thing. It because it gives you it's paid time to look for new words.
If you're still looking for a new look, I have a question for you Tommy about Joshua's outlook on redundancies, most people would say it is a real negative. It's a just a happy go lucky guy, or is he got it all wrong? Because when I walked in you like, Did you get a slice of that?
The thing is like you get to do something else. It's almost like an angel investing in life.
You should be.
We are an angel investor in life and we are invested in 100, stock.
Angel investor in old data.
They should have invested their money is that things going but I feel like I look at it, like look at cakes. As a great example. I was at work in the radio space that have just lost their job. There was 100 jobs gone. Yeah. I don't like when you sound like that because it does sound fucking a bit sad across the board to my colleagues.
When all was in my show last week,
worked around NASA. That role doesn't exist it was like glump day and it was just one person so I can't imagine being there this way well yeah I do wonder I was thinking what other I wonder if there's ever been a role that I've been in that potentially could have been redundant I don't think like I could look at how much trouble joining it myself I could look across the board and point out a whole bunch of people that don't do fucking anything right.
But I don't think it's as clinical as I think it's just the board goes we need to find 100 jobs and then just that managers faculty to get rid of three people how can I justify you get paid too much anyway that God I really lock in and you cuz I guess we should get a girl as well. But it's just like yeah, online on a talent or whatever is a very much Yeah, and I don't think it's as clinical as like rah rah going, how could we lock mode that the just sleeping giant reminds me of one of my favourite films up in the air. Always
George Clooney when and I just didn't know that. That is his job to five people. Yeah. Oh, that would go in. I feel like that would have liked you know, in July luggage or whatever and then sort of roll on Ian and say hi. Mike swale similar to Walter Mitty level films that have
redundancies. It's a transition. Anytime there's a transition in life. It's like when anyone moves on or does anything, even gets made redundant. I'm like, that's so exciting. Well, the worst is the walkout. And so you're halfway through day and then it happens. Maybe we had that before. I've seen a walk out if gotta hit 92. Nine. Was there any stink kicked up? Not because it's sort of the other way around mega. I'm leaving. But I'm happy to do my four weeks notice and they lock Get out right now. What's the point of that? person, the server, it's cut it off at the hill, the person worked in sales. And I think the point was, we didn't want him to
To the clients and maybe taken with him or we just want to put what if you've still got your notes connected to your iCloud and through your work came out and you gotta work that out. I wonder how many people are doing that like when it comes to data nowadays? Like forwarding your yes stealing your forwarding on documents and things like that. I've always thought about that because I most of my notes and thoughts and ideas before Evernote was just me emailing myself at work. Yeah, I did that too. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, if I have like just left, then I'd have all my travel contacts and names and numbers and stuff. Keeps one on one one when I work there.
No, I didn't get my hair done that quick. I'm different. No, Pat.
Did you go into the office? Do you know what the role either you could probably be covered by those two other guys. You just want to smooth this one over. I'll take the moment you think about redundancies, the role can exist once they fire you from it. And so that's why you're actually as a
What is it you're you can be shifted so they in radio Remember, you're an announcer so you're not a breakfast announcer Yeah, because they're not going to fight they could shift you out of the position as an announcer into the midday shift. Terrible you don't want to be doing that if you came in as the breakfast person, but the job is announcer Your job is an announcer which means that you can I can keep a secret yes in the contract is funny when you said I can't hire a new one so back in the day I got all your favourite make the redundant non existent yeah so I got offered a job at 96 fm and which is in Perth and and I was like God who's the GM and they like all the GM was made redundant and we can't have a new GM because the rules of redundancy, but you can instead speak to our Director of commercial
is that just another name for GM?
They're also in the same office.
Do you think this is why there's all these funny roles? Like pop? Hit of head of bloody
lead gen. But there's all these random roles now
that before we sat her down in the sales manager, but we now have a client relationship. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean it's interesting around the job titles I remember at one job I had they were always saying you know Josh don't get obsessed with the job title by the way personally. I might know but I'm want a better one now like it doesn't it doesn't mean anything. doesn't give it to me.
Such a good point. So I hey, look, if we're just throwing them around, just give it to me. I'll put lead in there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the thing is that
Yeah, I had a situation where I asked for a role name change. They push back a bunch
eventually gave it to me, but they said, Josh, the thing is, this isn't connected to like financial thing or anything like that. So like, what's the point? But then when it came to, that's why LinkedIn but also
When it came to time of evaluating everyone's salaries, they do look at the job title and say, and see what the industry standard is. And so then I got this massive bump up on us. They said to you, we can't change your title because it could be mean financial consequences. And you said no one and then you said, Look at my title. I want more money. I said, I said that, like, it doesn't mean anything. Yes. I'm saying you're not getting here. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like, Oh, well, you're not asking like it's not like a salary increase or anything but then the long game, it shows that there is benefit in that. What can we do a little I'm on a brainstorming show. Yeah, sure. So at teeka I've got a new show starting, which is this week possibly. And also, I'm going to be doing a couple hours a week just to help them with some social media stuff. Yeah, nothing fancy. What should I call myself? Because it's funny that you just said all you would lead content, literally call myself whatever I wanted late. That's what I was. I was a content late night.
Reason why ladies great is because it lead doesn't necessarily say that you manage people. And it is it cool off and saying manager? Well, I think a manager could potentially imply that you have people on the right lead is just us senior within that
isn't having people on the scene is good because they like yeah, and purely The only reason I want to choose my title is that if I need to apply for job light, I
wouldn't go specific to social media. Well, that is digital lead. So the thing is if tickler is an all digital business, so first thing I learned is like you go from radio where it's like, you've got the digital content producer. Yeah, if you go to a tech company, you're at that point, just a content producer because the digital bit is important. And so I think you don't want digital at all. So I'm just the lead. Yeah, social media. I'm Alade.
I think something I would go broad
Say something around can be outside communication specialist. What's a
scribe? but that
sounds nice communication. What is a content strategist? So content strategist? I feel like we talk about strategies, we all make content for living. But does anyone know what that is? Yeah. So it would be it'd be very much looking at. So you might not necessarily be on the tools depending on how big the businesses, but you would be saying, okay, so say if you're the content strategist, for the daily talk show, you would be saying, okay, you'd be doing stuff on who the audiences right then you'd be saying, based on that audience and the platform, these are the platforms we need to be on. You probably be even doing the measurements. So you'd be pulling in analytics from YouTube to Instagram, all that sort of thing and putting them into spreadsheets and the way I said it made it sounds like a lot of work. I don't have to stop. Yeah, when you just said off the
tools I just thought up men are brought up in the morning and when the people like names make names.
Well, yeah, no, I think there's it's definitely famous quotes from Jeff Bezos. Yeah. I reposted. He posted one of those. So this morning, I made that last night on my laptop. Yeah. I led that. Did you and told it?
I said I think something. I would go the tool communication specialist content specialist.
What about just specialist lead? I feel like the specialist. Split. Yeah. Specialist lead manager. Yeah. What have you found coming from radio and looking at the job market and the types of roles that are now available compared to before you're in the radio guy? Well, I haven't because I'm sort of
working on my own and doing bits and pieces, which I'm actually loving that kind of freelance for drift the left.
So I haven't looked at the 3333 rule.
Three rulesets Perth Melbourne I entry Yeah, I can say the country is a lot less lucrative in Perth. Is it going back to Perth again? It's like
he can't say no to LA good paying freelance shows when you need a freelance. I feel yeah trying to Perth is a house with the freelancing stuff. A lot of people when they're starting their freelance journey, they get self conscious about invoice numbers. Because when you starting it'll be like, invoice. I want
to be self conscious of it, then probably 70 people that just haven't thought
that's the thing. I think that people there are. I've seen forums where people talking about like, hey, how can I do this? I had to in front of the zero whatever. So it looks like 2001
guys that's adjusting to care about it is there to answer Tommy's question? Sounds like you've done three invoices by that answer. Well, I've been doing little ones. Either way the lace up to in the 40s. Okay, good now
and that's the ones that I don't think
to pay tax on that crap months, I think and I, my friend had this same thing a year ago because he finished in radio that outside of the radio industry, people don't realise all the skills you have in radio. Like you've got producing skills, I've got at least digital skills, and they just go on radio now. So now we're looking for a social media guy, you know, like, Oh, well, here's the thing about my show on camera. We didn't have a social media guy, our digital team, we broke all these records for multimedia. And like, we did that. Oh, yeah. But like you were a radio announcer. But I don't think people quite understand all the things you do. And I think that's up to us to communicate it and my mate Taylor, he changed his whole resume. So he was like, a communication specialist who was also on air, where he was just a workday guy that would pump a couple of names every now and then. I mean, when he's looking at a job description. When you're going for an interview or something, it's like, you end up doing so much more than what's on there, or the stuff on there is like what they're leading with like
The top end of what they want someone to be even capable Oh yeah, one thing I found with because I'm not qualified in marketing and stuff I just assumed you know that we've all been around enough that you kind of get the basics soon enough ads
enough telling yeah but the craziest thing is these one little like an intern or junior graduate role that need like five years experience and there's so many different facets of like it's content creation so there's like we need Adobe Premiere After Effects graphics blah blah but we also need you to be Google words in SEO specialist and have two years in these men also be a great graphic designer and also have existing clients in any like that's four different jobs manners, yes for an intern.
Me graduate now thinking recently about like, there's kind of two ways there's probably a better way that two ways to sort of get work, get stuff you haven't done before. And one of them is
Create the thing that you want to end up getting the workforce. So it could be a documentary. Yep. Or do or build contacts great enough where you can get given the opportunity and you slowly present. And I was thinking they were the same thing really. Because you can end up with like, radio stuff like, when you first get your job. There's no way you've had a shitload of experience you're getting someone's putting their chips on you or they're like, I think you can do it. And they have an opportunity so you can sink or swim. Right? And finally, the radio that using the examples, is he talking on air on a Yeah, for those but even like, do you think that that's changed? Because definitely so 2012 great year, but also
I feel like it was a different landscape where it's like, social media, not every single person was doing it. Whereas now, video people like we've talked about this video, people within radio are actually really good.
But when we were doing it it was like hard to feel and so there was always some form of compromise. Yeah definitely the video stuff in radio stations has changed. I think there's more people who are more skilled now with video creation I think it'd be the other way around. I reckon it'd be hard for a radio station like if you're really skilled digital guy don't know why it wouldn't work for radio station like when you think of all the possibilities Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I reckon that
the Hodgetts so I think that like in 2012 great year the reason why that was exciting was it was because you with it, yeah. But also brands were spending money. So it's like brands were spending money and then you'll get some flow on effect to do online video. But if you think about it, like you know, seven years ago, who was spending money in online video who was doing online video, you had to go to these newer and it felt like radio was better position than TV because TV was like, we've got to have resort video resources right?
Top in the TV, the thing we do, and if they create some other product around video and it's not as good as the TV product, it's like they've got a branding brought
to bake it in, they would never, you would never want to cannibalise the TV stuff by doing higher product value online. Definitely. So that's the other thing is that radio was described thing where it's like I remember getting in trouble, because I have you had a voice 123 No, it's like a service. It's sort of just pre Fiverr and all that sort of thing. But it was a very specific need, which was a marketplace for voiceover artists. Right. And so I did it.
I went to London during the Olympics to film for FIFA angels. Yeah. And I wanted an English voiceover artist. And I put her in Yes, I put a request into voice 123 said said this is what we want. Anyway, Black is an audio engineer at the radio station came up was freaking I said, just heard from
Our English voiceover guy, you know, I have this like that British sound. Yeah. So yeah, pretty Scott. Yeah, the British guy who does all the stuff for radio, he would do all the Hamish and Andy stuff. And he'd seen the ad that I'd done on voice 123. And he being like, guys, we've got this arrangement What's going on? Yes. And sorry. It was funny because he snitched. Yeah, but the thing is, now, I don't know, still doing voiceovers. But the thing is, he bloody shields that. It was sorry. But the interesting thing is, I guess it was so siloed because you had on air it was very hard for me to justify the digital content producer, getting time with that voiceover artist and so I was trying to figure out other other solutions that's mine ever consider you doing your British accent? No, absolutely. No, I don't only do the American I don't really does your American. Let's say it's Ryan Seacrest here. Oh, God. Good.
time when you're in America, you went to what's the
What supplies that Bridget loves the clothing line etheline did you buy much stuff? Yeah, we spent a lot of money there. We walk past that in Venice when we're there. This is across the road from the park. We'll hang out at the farmers market, its Farmers Market across the road there. And then next man, what's it denim like? Really good, or really good. I just got some really good recommend. But the thing I didn't know that in the US, but in Australia, you just get like a 32 or 34. In the US they're like or 39.
I'm, I've had a couple of months on probably almost 30. I think there's a different sizing for length and waist. So you can actually go Oh, I've got a big bump, but I'm not that tall. So they've like you know, you can get a 30 foot long but it's Yeah, yeah. There's some companies doing here. I I bought a couple of pairs of jeans that were too short, right waist size, but then.
Yeah, I need that length. Yeah, so Australia doesn't do that as much but Evelyn did it and the whole thing is like it's kind of expensive, but it's really quality and it's ethically sourced. And
It lasts for like forever because I like pie Isn't it like you know pay to include the cost of the factory workers pay without know because they and so everyone should they should all pay their workers no matter what you
do you want to get paid yeah it isn't the hit like I feel like I remember back in the day going on if
you want to get the desert in charge pay $50 for they're not going to be paying the God of may yeah yeah I mean the servers and no so the you're right nice service yeah service
now the airline thing so it because I feel like it was very much like you could pay different amounts. Is that gone? I don't think that was the thing anymore. Okay, because I wouldn't have paid as much as I did if I was kind of expenses. Yeah, I just remember there being a thing of like, do you remember that TJ like it was sort of a three. Can you look this up 97% online Everland bullshit online and he bought me a bunch of T shirts. Can I tell you it so I think you guys would really appreciate that.
This. So for guys that have this thing called the uniform and it's like a 10 pieces, it's like three or 400 bucks. But it's like with those 10 pieces. It's essentially the idea is that's all you need. That's my pieces. So it's a blue Jane black Jane and Jane are bang, couple different running shorts and T shirt. But today because you guys like just the basics, and then you said mega that's uniform you you're good to go for the next keep it simple, stupid. I mean, I got a I was pretty happy with myself. I got a little cheeky inbox from someone today just saying, hey, Tommy, leave here. Hope you're really well. I've just started looking after the PR for Robin gun.
They would love to give you some product. Do you want to have a look on the website to pick out some stuff? We can arrange a store visit? I think I'm an influence that what I will do is that like as an influencer, because this is like when we've gone to restaurants or whatever, and they've sort of Pr Pr Pr? Well, I mean I was I mean that's to me that's free. That's just you get to come in. We're saying what you
Do we understand that you know you've got a bit of pull you feel about the fact that if you take that which you bloody should regard fine now
you have got to put in that not how do you feel about being an influencer? Well, there's been nothing they're saying that I need to be thinking about it. But the reality I'm pretty sure that's for you boys. Do you want to look on the website to pick out some stuff? What and then she's gonna say that we wanted
to get you
and then what about the follow up? Are they going to say after I get it? And yeah, so if you could just post a few pics, that'd be great. Like It Is that how it works? Anyway, I thought I was special and then Josh, I got
a message from from leap in in terms of like, you know, monetizing podcasts and stuff. The reality is that it's you know, there's various various trickles of stuff.
And a lot of people who have been podcast make a lot of their money not directly from the podcast but indirectly you know
yeah but my original question How would you guys actually feel because I have a cold an influence the other day cuz I did this not only that influence the thing and it just it made me cringe now I'm a community content specialist
I'm a specialist, specialist late influence especially how do you feel?
That's how we feel like what am I doing the MTV visit Vic thing that's all on hashtag spawn. It's all on our phone. So there feels like I and every event we've been to so far, there's been people with big cameras like what we film this I'd like to see 200 and they're there with their big lens. And then it's just me and Tommy being like, Hey guys, we're down here or whatever. Just like so there is something a bit uncomfortable about not having a full blown setup. I have to say compliment Josh, you've really lent into that sort of presenting you know, the the JJ with the handout. I really enjoy it.
Josh and I have really appreciate it I think he needed to bring it Ron you've got a gun by the way you might get his rod done so every time I say running gun I just I looked at my dad said I heard you know someone I can I can swing your contact but who knows you might have got one there's one shopping town so let's maybe we could do a piece of integrated content around gun but like the whole like back in post redundancy need to look good.
I tried to make
that stuff. I think you'd get around gun mates road done.
Let's go down the Christmas story. Yeah, that's a great Yes, that money not to do it. I love it. We need to feel good Christmas story. Everyone's gonna feel good Christmas. I mean, you've just had Thanksgiving, right?
Well, I just last week, got back from Thanksgiving in the US. And I met my biological family and had Thanksgiving with them. And I have
them I'd never met before Thanksgiving Christmas but without the presence and sorry Is there any controversy yeah we've got like a straight a controversial now like you know can't do it Thanksgiving either any of that oh no problem no problem that's good other than Vegas there was a shooting Did you say there's a shooting 12 people shot I was filming this thing I was earlier left and then there's that area like the same spot where I was filming the background is what got shot up. Oh geez yeah that's pretty well but apart from that we didn't say anything bad and there's nothing Australia Day problematic about it's just awesome. And so he's I never met half of the fact so I'd met the direct family but I met all the cousins and grandpas and aunties and uncles and we just I drank and had a run Tom went to the NBA and just you know, got to know each other. I think I was I was watching a video thank you for wearing the daily torch. Yeah, and they I was I was freaking out about I just watched it. No, I haven't I had watched it yet.
stuffing your teeth was freaking me out but
I didn't realise until I went to edit it and I was like, oh no and it already packed the camera. I was like I'm not gonna set that up. So what were you waiting to get that
must have been there from there has to be saying one thing I did notice I don't know if this is being spoken about but one of your family members I felt looked a bit like Bridget. Yeah, my cousin Adriana. Yeah, problematic.
I was like,
Making these new. gonna say have you seen the new one, but I haven't finished it
I always have a thought so annoying, but like this isn't the first time that that happened. But I put Bridget's glasses on. And then I came in really close and she's got her glasses and it's like, identical. Yeah, they got the same glasses and they got along really well. velop besties is almost a shame. They don't live near each other because I would be best friends. is cute is nice, isn't it? And so you did it all.
She done ancestry day night test. Who
did it when I did it? And she's
good, not good. And so what was good about that? Yeah. I mean, that stuff happened. I mean, what should I think there's been the ones where it's like, you know,
adopted, kids end up being like brother and sister. So what would you do if you were related to Bridget? And it was like a cat like cousin of a cousin of you know, like, she is still a some way to do it till you wouldn't be with Bridget. We just do it just like you'd be like,
not putting your socks in the washing basket that this is a bit different.
I actually thought about bridging so much, though. I think you'd have to depend on like, if you if you're not planning on having kids, it's not
it's only there's a specific type. So Amy has a friend whose parents cousin
What's the deal? So good? So yeah, I've had kids that were kids so the company just did some big they probably did some testing to see what the back yet. No, no no. What does that mean? getting that done?
tested knowing what
to do I'm sure that you could do blood tests to see
this app when does it become a problem? When you have children with a family member there is I know there's a specific and other news I not envious of your Google searches
what's the deal with the line? Yes, you can there's a selection so that they have a range code pie what you want and they have select process they got like 4955 and then 65 and you just select which one you email that to me three weeks ago that would be fantastic. 65 uS gronk me strange Oh shit.
But I actually had the opposite.
So when I lived in the US so when I finished high school I got a volleyball scholarship moved to the US and I knew that my birth father was American and so I always had this thought of like you know you're going to college party me like you could like randomly make some girl and find out later that she's your sister. And so and that's when I found out I had with my birthday I was like I've got two sons but no daughters I was a little bit like
did you find out nice ups the deal? Just ready yeah. And one of the guy
I'm still pulling it apart. He keeps
good in the bringing back podcast in 2020
there's a few little bits and pieces in the in the works. I've sort of I've thrown a couple of Hail Marys and to see what's gonna What does that mean? I'm
just is trying to dissect what he needs to say right now. fact we've got Mason dissecting
Ideas sound you and I just free flowing. Some of them pitch to brands, some other radio people have said to me come in and make some stuff, whether you want it to be sharp, so there's heaps of ideas. I'm still kind of working out, but I'm not overly fast with the podcast. I'm locking video at the moment. So I'm not actually I think Reishi video cannot reach a bit harder, faster. I agree with that. It's discoverability is a lot. Yeah, he's Yeah. He's something we could workshop around monetization. We talked about it a little bit. We sort of took it off the table. We were going too hard in regards to monetizing about two months ago, and they were like, Yeah, well, the time I came in here we are worldwide, right? Yeah. And so we'd Yes, yeah, that was in the you trying to break world records versus just start to run in the right. So I think the whole thing was it was like we were trying to make it How can we make the daily talk show our main revenue source? Yeah. And so yourself. And so, excites me. I told that I thought, tell me about this.
I'll talk to a bookstore but
how many of you gifts have books? Oh yeah.
So on Amazon don't buy a book you can be an affiliate. Thank you. That's a great ideas you can go to if you set it up the daily sorry amazon.com slash the daily talk show. And then you can put whatever products you want to do
that up, choose whatever books you want on there. And so you know how at the end of every interview and every media thing they'll just go to sunrise com to see about the book. Oh, thanks coming in where you don't need to ask them you just go. Thanks come into a mate. Hey, the audience if you want to buy this person's book, just go to the daily talk. So bookshop on Amazon and you know what you get more of a cut them the
show.com forward slash bookshop, and then it then it redirects the
Ford's to the Amazon, but then yeah, but then we're doing Shopify and running logistics on a bookshop. Well, that's the best
thing about that is you don't need to touch the books by is it just happens in salvation and Apache is assigned to a friend who wrote a book and like an author, and author. And it seems black prestigious to say I'm an author, but the money's Yeah. And you would definitely get more money in your commission. Writing molefi? Well, so good. Yeah, we were. So we're trying to work out the there's a few cents away now.
Because 2020, the year of diversification of revenue. And so I think it's important. Not all your eggs in one basket, don't have 80% of your work coming from 20% don't have what you're trying to the only 29% of your income from 20% of your work. Yes. Yeah. Because if you lose a few of them, you're done. Yeah. But so you want to get a lot of strange. I'm working off of our streams at the moment. I think it's good to one and sorry, the so I caught it. Maybe we could all get jobs then I'll try and get made redundant next year.
Back here in six months, one of the great story arcs
That's not enough cash because it's all about longevity. You got to stay in there for a bit. Yeah, so you're in the show for 10 years maybe this project can be a 20 year project so what we were on it but no. So what we're thinking is making the advertising on here more affordable. Yep. So we went like quite expensive with like over 1000
at a time because I was like, Good on you guys for being off. But I kind of like your shoot man. But I kind of left thinking lock too much because you said if we do that for every single episode for the whole you will end up making this much you're not locked.
If I can pull that off.
Yeah, and so but where I think that we've said all this as I was talking to Chris Lawson from Lawson media. He's got a new show coming out tomorrow called supercharged which is all about Tesla and Elon Musk and all that sort of thing. He's a Melbourne based guy, but he was talking about CPM like cost per thousand. Yeah.
I think he was saying that it like the top end was getting like 75 bucks per thousand were loads. Yeah. And so with what we're doing, if we apply that logic, we should be able to get over 100. But like say we get average, like 1700 downloads per episode. Yeah, like 55 over 55,000 downloads a month on the show.
What do you think if we charge $1,000 a week to advertise seven days? Well, it just depends on who your audiences. So I was 70% Melvin? Yeah. So and depends what how that's valuable to a client. So this I've written a,
like a branded podcast project that I'm going to hopefully sell the idea of us meeting with last week. But it's so specific, that the client is like, are you essentially talking about that product, the only people who are going to listen, people who are going to be quite similar to our customers? Yeah, so even if they only get a couple of thousand, every single one of them can
And so, the title of that is the more variabilities berthoud. Yeah, obviously, if you have a million from everywhere, it's still a million so you can still make money off that but if you got a small amount, so then that's where you get to say if it's a local Melbourne business and you go all the audiences in Melbourne so you're not going to waste any Yeah.
It's probably what we're talking about here is specific ad raids for the show. So we're
gonna buy an ad and you guys said no, that was back in the day when we had cash now we'll
take you cash.
Can you see it after it had gone into a campaign on to buy a weight? Definitely. You know how much it is? 1000 bucks. Okay, I'll do it. Because what I said to you, I was like, I'll do this thing. Yes, this is effort. Yeah, let's let's make the sale right now. The opportunity over to
Josh, I'm gonna sell five cups of coffee for $200 each. Right 500 cup of cats. 200 Yeah.
So, so what happens is I say that one more time. So you buy a coffee of me for $200. And you say 500 coffees. So say five for 200 minutes. Yeah, he's making a grand from selling five coffee. I've got five coffees. So when you buy a coffee 1500 dollars, the sound coaching, I like it don't know. So I come to the coffee with a bunch of ideas for you, your business and your branding thing. And then if you want to do them, then the coffee is free.
That's a great idea. Yeah. And so and it only cost $1,000 and I'm only doing it for five people. And my whole thing is, is that if I pay you $1,000 for the week and I get my five coffees then then I'm breaking even
breaking even. Okay, if you say yes, yes, yes. Yeah. But then you couldn't make a bunch more cash because they don't if they don't pay for the coffee because they want you to do the content for them. Yeah. Okay. I love that idea. Okay, when do you want to
start well do I get seven days or five
GB on a six day
Wait, we can give you a free one now, which you just had. Okay. Okay, so let me just make this really clear. Okay, this is what's on offer. If your if your business wants to make some online noise by others over the commission structure we'll talk because I brought this client in so I'll take it cut off the revenue, which is from me. Well Hang on. might say you're selling in. Also you What if I brought you a client? Would you give me a cut? depend we've never done commission stuff before but what money before?
How do we? How would Was it fun bringing you $1,000? client I should get 10% of that. Okay, well, how about not bringing in the client? I think we could do that. How about this for every night says what do you think about this for $1,000? If you bring in $1,000 client for one week, we give you $100. Okay, yes, I said this is for the ad specific stuff. Yeah, this isn't a bad deal. Yeah. So you bring us a sponsor, well, I have $1,000 will give you $100 and if you have $5,000 will give
500 Yep, correct. Yeah, that's how it works. So anyway, this is what I like this. If you contact me or the daily talk show, and you say Ryan, I would like to purchase a coffee for a director moto for 950.
If you want to make some noise for your business, you want to make sort of like a fun viral ish video that kind of shows a few product videos. Let's sit down have a $200 coffee, I'll pay for the coffee that's including the $200 and I'll also bring a page of different ideas is it cannibalising what we do, we probably
charged me like a lot more than I thought. So we end up making that money you make the money off, the person who buys it gets good video and I just lose a couple hundred bucks. And somehow I see I paid
And then I have a page of viral ideas and you might go don't like that don't like that do like those two, and that one, maybe tweak that one. And then if you decide to make them your $200 back and it's just regular production costs, and if you don't just
You can just type the ideas and shake my hand and see what do you think nice seven about all this? That's great. I love it. We putting it out to the gronk squad too. So yeah if you can, so seven days a week you get what are they getting? They're getting a live raid live raid. Until we have like, you know you've got Michael bungay stanier on the show. That's that's a daily Talk Show Episode 535 Michael bungay stanier is that Hey guys, this is Michael before we get started I just wanted to show it's pretty sure it goes
Yeah, I will. I'm going to laugh and cry right
more after the sponsor.
any candidate I don't know about medrol what do you think that Maduro? No not so you can omit bro. Yeah.
Pretty well post rock.
That's just a naming.
So do you think it's the daily talk show is brought to you by Ryan john. If you need a video, set up a coffee with the
maternally 200 bucks and you get a page full of ideas. Go to Ryan john.com delay you and booking him today. That's Ryan, john j. o n.com. day you don't say the website because then I have to like check it and see if it works. You got a user ID
Can you check what's on my name.com 97? Just go right, john doe.com. Ron john. Oh, come on. Yeah. You just seem to be my monthly click. Oh my god, this is hold. Yeah, is it?
Hey, what's the latest story? Surprise engagement.
I forget that Thanksgiving video up. So yeah, so I like this. So 1000. So that means that we could cover our lace every month. I think maybe it would forget it is you got nothing to do with why you do a separate podcast that's just like budgeting and not like budgeting advice, but just like you listen to us do out. But I think it's I think people would want to know, how much does this cost this place cost? It's like 40 grand a year. Isn't it?
I mean, anyway, goings, you got to add about 10 grand on any commercial with. You see the
3000? You say it is 55 per annum it's 60
insurances, right? So you're saying you have to sell one of these ever, you have to sell a weekly thing every single week to pay for the building. We're not relying on.
If we've been relying on, let's pretend to not trust fund babies.
Just say that did you say someone in the comments which we talked about it? No. Just think that's funny. Oh, that's a very good Angel.
Someone said that we would trust fund babies for the amount that we do this. Yeah. They're like how do these guys make money? You're like
okay, I think that's really interesting. So that's potential one way of diversification of the market. We're doing other stuff. We're doing some like we're working with our host venture IP. They have like a great web host for all our because our website has so much content on it, you'll see 97 tells
So he was tasked the operation of moving all of our information from one server to another.
And you were in touch with venture IP. Tell us what happened when you called and spoke to young bloke adventure IP. So they're all z based. Basically Mary Warren Yeah, it's great love of all your
support is great, dude. I love it fucking local. I was with another provider that ended up selling. I still stayed local. So I've stayed with that was very I mean Dick Smith syrup on it. Yeah. Now, I know you guys don't want to do this. But you gotta let Mr. Nice him finish the story. Please continue. So I know you don't want to let it
anyway, no. So I was I was on the phone and I was I was calling up to see how a transfer of the website was going. And the block that I was talking to. He was one of the support representatives and his name was Ross and he listens to the
Show. No shit. Yeah.
You wanted to handle the migration. He wanted to handle the daily talk show migration? guide someone who's a day right celebrity in Perth? Yeah. When fans want to handle anything of yours just let them get their hands on
those places. Ross from Vince, of course a message place Why do you think I visit you? You're victorious
What were you saying you're saying? I know you don't want to and then you're gonna get into something. I feel like every influencer and but that's different for you guys because you guys have genuine knowledge has it a course or something and I and I know that you know that you could make money doing a had a podcast course or having people in here and teaching them how to do stuff. I feel like you'd both enjoy doing it. I would love to be interesting and it's ripe and it's one of those evergreen that once you've made this cool online course then it's finished and it just takes over and rolls along in the background. You can it makes sense to plug during the show like oh yeah, something to
About the camera you can check it out on the court like it's an easy, natural cell. So why don't you do it? Yeah. What do you reckon the income wise we could like so Safeway doing all the diversification of revenue. How much should we be looking at so Safeway making four grand a month off ads? Well, I think the whole point of having the multiple streams is you can go Oh, not a huge amount there but we had a good month there Yeah, overall, it just got always trickles in. And I feel like that course Yeah, you guys know what you're doing and wouldn't be hot. You can physically make it because you've got a lucky want to tell you something. It's online or online. Okay, because women in various ways to a bit I think it'd be because then anyone in the world can buy it cost of $99 it's 30 video tutorial on how to book guests like there's a lot of work into them. So there's a and there's and we're flying. So I think it's actually in in person course to start with Tatarstan what people's needs actually are 250 bucks a pop and we've we've written this and done the copy and we're going to put it up but we focus wasn't there. We need to put it somewhere else in
So we're going to run those. What about the other people need? Do you think like if we're really leaning because the education thing excites us? Yeah. But we want to make sure that whatever we do gives hexa value, I think
the strategic thing to do would go into Google Analytics. Unless you have a strategy, strategy, leadership, lead, special lady, they can actually find out what people have Google. So there's a higher search. People are always searching for what equipment Do I need to start a podcast and then listen to is what equipment Do I need to start a podcast?
Back in the day, so I like
to work out what videos to make it invito I would look at the top questions on Quora and then create videos and then I would respond with an answer saying hey, I made a video about it. And it worked. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's Yeah, that's strategic. The the creative life not model but yeah, when you say you were thinking about doing an in person course. You just
Do that, and then film it. And so it becomes in charge people for the day, and then it lives on forever. And I think like you said, lots of work setting it up. But Ryan Holiday did a course on creative life five years ago, and he still says, I still get that monthly check. It gets a cut, because once it's done, then it it's done. Yeah. I mean, these are things. The thing is we think about this shit constantly. Yeah, this takes the time, right takes the time for to even feel like you have authority or something to think of all the people that don't have authority who just don't be I don't know, if I should this, don't be the illusion, WD solution. Don't be confused by all the courses out there thinking that they're actually making any money because the amount of people like I met Dave Villa is going to be releasing some sort of online education, you know, kill it. Yes, people will attempt in and he's built trust and so the amount of people have
Come to me ask wanting us to film their online course the reality is that will sell five of them yeah right and then they'll but that's because they don't have no I think there's
a thing and they might not have the know that SEO skills and like you know you're going to use your smarts then yeah then market that course but I think how many podcast courses how many teachers teaching audio skills that universities have hosted 300 500 episodes That's nonsense 300 accidentally I'm bloggers that was that it said you know to you know have I didn't know that what I said a lot of Hey was a 300 and said 500 in regards to episodes that we've done like it feels like a round number. They just found a shave off 200 and so
there's always podcast courses but these guys have done finally make it not cringe. How do you make I guess part of it is like I worry that there is you either
what people think of you know, know, I worry about what I think about me. And a part of me is like I wanted to learn that in turn means that you worry about what people think not. Because if you if you created something and you sort is cringe and then released it, you'd understand people would be thinking it's great. Yeah. So you've got the final say on it being cringer not, and so and so then on the other side, you'd think that's actually people think it's cringe. Now what I think about how if you see someone else do something and you're like, I think that's a little bit cringe. I just want to make sure that it's good. I think the difference would be the word code versus did there'll be a lot of courses that say, this is how you could get these great guests, but I think it just takes a lot of the wackiness out of its go. This has has we did get Seth Godin but the only thing he's my strategy suggestion like transfer be 50 hertz and
flew to New York on these jet I called the trust
he's made specific Yeah, I just worry though. The answer The answer.
It like for those types of things people want to hear like, I need to do this on LinkedIn to or the the reality is if you think about the way that we do it is we build relationships like howdy community. This is the cause man
it's about building relationships sexy course you'll find on the
Here you go you know what there's all these little how to but this is the
Casey nice dad yesterday I was listening to an old podcast on Tim Ferriss 2015. The fact is that guy at that time in 2015, it just started blogging, and he references being in the city for 15 years. So he hadn't made it yet. He'd done other stuff, then bits and pieces, but he hadn't crafted mainstream until it's been 15 years giving it a red flag and it's a long time he was 34
Or something at that point. And then yeah so the the reality is it takes a long time. And he was also saying that I was telling Josh this earlier I think you should read listen to that chat. I think it's relevant for what you're doing one Tim Ferriss in KC nice, there's a KC not chapter but in one of Tim's books, it's got lucky. Yeah. So from that, yeah, tribe with mentors, and
he was saying, how, you know, people have suggested that I go on YouTube. I, you know, people have said the boat sail the ship aside, whatever.
You know, people have sent me to your staff. What would you suggest? How do you how do you sort of make it? And he's like, there's no, there's no fucking one answer. If I knew the answer, I could write it down. Oh, people would have written it down and people would have followed it. The same principles and and consistencies, throw out a lot of these people who have killed it, but it does change like, he's a big believer in the quantity not necessarily quality of the footage itself.
Micah this people have gone the other way. I've come up with a name of something so we gotta go so I can write it down I spit ball. Ryan john, I'm not telling you now we'll do it off here yet. You're going to come in a bunch in 2020 would love for you to be a regular Is that right? Because I don't want to I don't want to like impose stop asking because I've asked that many times what I've asked you to come in and buy it now right I see all right I'll be in a lot more right cuz I've got a I'm doing two days a week in Melbourne Next is the coffee thing and all that sort of thing and that can we invoice you now for that thousand
yeah now let's sort that out and then we invoice to
Ryan on Creative which has been set up right
at wild who they thought a company yet it's just a sole trader Soul Train that's fine
the system registered not Yeah, now, I get it. I should though I should. I should say on register for GST will charge 10% more
Escape the mind it's definitely 75,000 or more you have to Yeah. So if you don't make it to that you can then you say, to me we can when I was younger that would say don't register for GST and then when you start making it and then add it in. My thing is if you're working for the clients, you just don't want to be signalling that if you especially if you're doing a 20 grand job, how much do you think people judge you off the invoices? You're talking about invoice now?
The small business offer right if you're not a big companies
associate from payroll going Yep, cool.
If they're reading the invoice they've already agreed to do whatever they like. They don't look at the invoice and then go Oh, one
fucking not single. I think there's a little bit like I definitely place paid contractors in certain boxes of where they are in regards to their business based on those. I actually think it could make you feel better.
As the person on the other end, I don't necessarily mind saying is like,
okay, I'll charge you guys GST.
GST. But the thing is,
if you're the account, you're the accountant. You've been out of the game, I've been out of the game for all I had to I was chatting to this person, I was going to make a video for them and they're in like the financial services thing. And like, I've been out of the game for a while, and they have like a bunch of questions. Like, I'll just say this new thing about the thing and you're up to date with this thing. And I was like, yep.
conversation about block. I'm across it.
Blogs, read the paper. I bought a new one the other day and then was like, the fuck does this. If I'm like, What are you buying? I bought that age on a Sunday because I had like a coffee and I was like, I'm just gonna sit down and write
From Herald Sun featured Hey tiger, so they got photos and stuff. That's great. Yeah, newspapers. We I had a moment I was like, Who does? Well, I was wondering, I was asking Bray about my kid the newspapers. She's like, Herald Sun, for instance, very well regarded, like when we're at the MTV, like, a bunch of like the NGV one more there. It's like are you have it, Harold somewhere in taking photos. It was all it's all the legacy media though. How much is it really moving the needle? This is what we don't know. This is what no one knows anymore. Yeah, I mean, all media is like, the walls are starting to cave down as you can promise that just because we print 6000 600,000 copies of the paper in a day there how many wireless wireless really just say if it's 200,000 a day that can't promise that the idea?
Did you know all just want max I think it's gonna put that out. The other day Channel Nine came out. You had to do that up front. If you guys don't you
I don't know what up front these media company comes down says he's what we're doing next year.
Big media company should come and go next year. The Daily talk show. Yeah.
So normally in an event space I have sort of Yeah, that's all we can do. Yeah. So anyway, Channel Nine at the upfront said, we're doing this new thing in digital where if the viewer doesn't watch the entirety of your ad, if it's a prayer or something, you don't pay for the ad. So you we only channel I normally charge the client. If the person watches the whole ad and doesn't press skim. And now they're paying people who put one of those boxes on their TV to register how long the ad runs for really know how to use it. How did I get people watching ads? And I was like, so you're not gonna charge me if someone picks up their phone during an ad break.
TV ads, bro, give me all my money back. Exactly. My point is how do they they can't they don't know how long somebody's doing. Yeah.
about as much as they can you guys with your production company make TV says not we haven't done
I've I've that's my wife I've shot
stuff for cinemas and stuff in it is there is there really particular like yeah yeah well there's a bunch of you have to put it through add strain or whatever which is like making sure that all the data right
I was thinking I reckon we could buy I want to make an ad for some business of just for me for my Instagram page Yeah, and our economic for about 100 bucks I could get 50 placements on regional TV Really? Yeah, it's because they can't give it away they just need to fill a slot show when I was in Bumbry that CHANNEL SEVEN were charging two bucks per thing. Let's get your dad and talk show in shepparton. Hey guys.
I used to be on radio that post people are missing the share button we could do so maybe knows that you're responsible to take the thousand bucks. We make off
You put it into shepparton ads.
That's good idea. It's a good investment. Invest in the brand. So who do we talk to? Let's say someone from shepardize. Yeah, can we say we have $1,000 budget? What can we get yet? And we can do the TVC. Just before we finish, Amy's just arrived Tommy's, what can I say? Amy gave me some really good advice of the proposal video. So I just wanted to publicly say that to be
a huge surprise. And she's like, No, you got to leave that killer surprise thing to the end of the video. Like totally restructured the whole thing.
Amy good. Ryan wanted to Can I say what you want to do?
I was gonna make an amazing right. Are you Yeah, but which means she would have known it was proposal day from the get go. She had have completed the task. At amazing right now you're married? Yeah, but she still has to compete. You're in the doghouse. You've given me so much. Pleasure to go today.
Yeah, we would have been engaged but I think it's probably good.
The boardroom to finish off this deal.
Opportunity opportunity is looked in my
talk show hiver daily talk show.com it's high at the daily talk show.com if you'd like to book seven days for grand on the daily tool I purchase a $200 Coffee should that you send you an email no go through you guys okay, the commission we get hang on we haven't spoken I just want you guys to know if your advertising works if you don't get any emails that you might need read
Also Apple podcast if you enjoy the show, leave us a five star review and we might even read it out would you do that? 97 if they if they leave a review or a review right now we can read your review
because I gotta pick up my kid one from Sam five star reviews. Such good guys have just recently started listening to the daily talk show and I gotta say it's a good listen. The guys are super down to earth and positive. Not only does it brighten my day, but most of the time I
Learn something that I want to implement into my life. Also, you can't beat a daily podcast great Listen, Rocky said What's his name? Sam. Sam Can you say Ryan says you're welcome you're part of that you can't reply
yeah, the happy baby day baby beautiful baby named Charlie. Little little Charlie I love I love that name we wanted that didn't we? mossie
more thing on the record before Yeah sure. Tommy gave me contact last week for a company the guy left eight months ago
road I really did it that's why hasn't been getting back to me. Yeah, good news. I got the con over him. So the thing is, we literally like I said using Sennheiser microphone and I left you mean this guy? Yeah. Can I speak to him or he lifted me? Oh, okay. I'll better tell Tommy i right. That is so funny. He should have had bounced back on these emails ridiculous messaging this guy. Sennheiser microphones on
All of our
US trip because I'd cracked it because I emailed road asking to visit them in Sydney to say hello and he never got back. He may have got a redundancy and
working Sennheiser was head of Communications at some of the
lead Communications Specialist Lee specialist late Okay, well, I'm gonna look that up Dan Bernstein great guy. Anyway, let's talk so I said about guys take us