Diversifying Revenue With Ryan Jon

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 541.

Tommy: We got Ryan John in the building.

Ryan: Yeah, get around it.

Josh: Happy Monday, Ryan.

Ryan: Thank you, happy Monday to you too.

Tommy: You're up there with the most frequented guests. I mean, it's been pretty good because you actually have lived interstate for a heap of the time that we've had this show.

Ryan: Yeah, well, when I used to come by, this was part of my stops. Go and see mum. Go and do some work to cover the trip on tax, come and see the boys at the Daily Talk Show and go home.

Tommy: Uh, what was the point of coming here today?

Ryan: Well, I'll tell you the idea of coming today. Someone else cancelled and I was ringing. Is that—

Tommy: are we being honest about this? No, I didn't mean it like that. But yeah, that's what happened.

Josh: But what are you doing in Melbourne right now? Or you're full-time in Melbourne now?

Ryan: Well, sort of. I'm kind of— I've been half per— um, a third Perth, a third Melbourne, a third out on the farm in Western Victoria.

Josh: So that means one-third, that means what, like twice, two and a half times a week you're in Melbourne? Is that right?

Ryan: I reckon two days a week I'm in Melbourne.

Josh: Okay.

Ryan: Yeah, just coming in for bits and pieces. Oh, I took, um, there was a grand plan to come and work out at your office. I haven't done that as much as I thought.

Tommy: Yeah, mate, you got to be in Melbourne.

Josh: I don't think you've done it at all, have you?

Ryan: No, probably not, but I'll start soon.

Josh: Okay.

Ryan: No, 2020 vision.

Tommy: Um, I took Bodhi to the little trains right near your house.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: How good is that?

Tommy: Eltham Trains. Absolutely awesome.

Josh: Why do you go there?

Ryan: I was there yesterday. That's why I'm sunburnt.

Tommy: You actually were there?

Ryan: Yeah, because like across the street is the dog park and I took BJ.

Tommy: Yeah. So it's right near his mum's place.

Ryan: Yeah, you can walk there from mum's place. Oh, we filmed that thing with Dave there.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. That's how I know about it.

Ryan: I'm so loving that you're living on my side of Melbourne now.

Tommy: Suburb life. Yeah.

Ryan: When are you going to join us, Josh?

Josh: I mean, I'm close to the freeway. I can easily access it. I can go to Shoppo regularly. It feels like you were in the US and then you were home.

Ryan: If I could say the same to you guys.

Josh: Well, how many days were you—

Ryan: I was in the US for 8 days because Bridget, my fiancée, only had 5 days off, so we just crammed it in. So it was like 2 weekends and the week in between.

Josh: Was it a contentious issue around her annual leave, or was it okay?

Ryan: A little bit, but she's like, um, Ryan just met his biological family, they've invited us to Thanksgiving, we've never met half of them. The bosses were like, yeah, that seems like a pretty good thing to go to.

Tommy: So Well, it'd be a bit of an asshole move not to let you.

Josh: Yeah, I've definitely had moments like I asked Bree's boss when I was younger. I said, hey, I want to surprise Bree. We, we missed out on Miley Cyrus tickets in Melbourne. I want to surprise her and, and go and see Miley Cyrus on a Friday night in Sydney. Yeah. And she'll just need to take the day off. And the boss said no, absolutely not.

Ryan: Really?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Did she have the annual leave? Or just— so then what's the point of annual leave?

Josh: I guess the point is you need to sort of book ahead potentially.

Ryan: So, uh, when my, my best mate's mum passed away, Dave, who we made the video for, she died of MND. I said to my boss, I'm going to take tomorrow off and fly to Melbourne to go to the funeral. My best friend's mum, and even besides being my best friend's mum, I actually knew her really well as well. And they were like, nah, because you've only worked here 3 months or less, you're still on probation, which means you haven't accrued annual leave. So like, you just haven't accrued a heart yet.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: So, but then, so I was like, okay, then I spoke to Dave and I was like, dude, this is bullshit. I can't believe it. But this is what they said. And he just, dude, it is what it is. You can't change it. So I went in, did the brekkie show in the morning, and then after the show I went into the boss's office and I was like, I'm leaving right now.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: And I'm not coming back. Ever. Like, this is on a Thursday, and the funeral's on a Friday. I was like, I'll be back on Monday. Like, if I still have a job, I'll be here. But if not, like, I don't fucking care, I'm just gonna go.

Tommy: Yeah, you're cool.

Ryan: Heartless cunt. And then when I left, they were like, after all we've done for you.

Tommy: I was like, fuck it, put shit into perspective. Yeah, like, it doesn't mean anything, these jobs, when people around you— yeah, aren't living anymore.

Josh: All that shit on us. You haven't accrued enough, so But it was weird.

Ryan: Cheers to Grant Broadcasters. And I remember saying to myself, I just, uh, I was like, I'll regret this for the rest of my life if I don't go. And even now I think about it, I'm like, I'm really glad I did that.

Josh: Yeah, I should have gone and seen Miley Cyrus, let's be honest.

Ryan: Yeah, you should have. You should have walked out of your partner's job for her while she quits.

Josh: I've nearly— I've done stuff like, I booked, uh, because Bree was funny, it was same boss, about taking long periods of annual leave And so I decided to surprise her one Christmas where I'm like, hey, I've booked a month for us to go to the US.

Ryan: That's a big surprise.

Josh: Put it in like the flights. And she's like, but I haven't put in annual leave.

Ryan: I'm like, I know.

Josh: She ended up leaving and we went on that trip. But it was, yeah, it was great.

Ryan: Does she regret that now?

Josh: No, no, that was perfect. It was actually one of the best moments ever because she got a new job before she went away.

Ryan: Oh, perfect.

Josh: And I quit my job, and, um, in 4 weeks' time we were going away. In that 4 weeks, I got a new job too. And so we were both going away with the idea that we'd come home to new jobs ready to go, and we just fucking credit carded the shit out of that trip. And the other thing too is I fucked up the— I didn't realise they paid ahead. And so it was that whole thing about saying, 'Brayhal, you know, we'll get $6K or whatever it is,' and then like you get your— it was like $2,500.

Tommy: That's why they do it, because they're like, when someone leaves and having to fork up extra cash. There's been a bunch of redundancies across the radio landscape. Well, Southern Cross Stereo of recent. Yeah, someone in the week—

Ryan: your old mate?

Tommy: Oh, uh, who's that?

Ryan: Uh, you're the favourite talent you worked with.

Tommy: Oh, Matt Tilley.

Josh: Yeah, that was that redundancy, or was that just—

Tommy: yeah, I don't know, that was the people spoke. Anyway, um, have you had redundancy before?

Ryan: Uh, no.

Tommy: Like a classic, the business is restructuring and they've got—

Ryan: not like that. I'm just trying to think of the exact wording Southern Cross gave me in the middle of the year.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, we won't do that. But I spoke to someone in the weekend, they said that a redundancy was like super rattling, um, and changed their life in a— in not the best way. Yeah, but then I've spoken to other people, they're like, mate, it's actually the best fucking thing ever. It's almost like a badge of honour these days. Everyone loves a good fucking redundancy.

Ryan: Actually, my dad got made redundant 3 weeks ago. And he's—

Josh: Clap it in.

Ryan: And he's 68 or 69.

Josh: That's a forced retirement.

Ryan: That's what I meant.

Josh: I retired with a good grade.

Ryan: Because he was really unwell when I was in high school and had to change jobs. And he was like, oh, it's hard to like start a new career when you're 55 or whatever. And now he's like, is it 69? Because he worked in a factory. And you know, when you're in a factory, you get very good at that specific thing that you do, but you don't really know much else. So he's like, what am I going to do at age 70, go and learn how to—

Josh: What was the specific thing that he did in the factory, do you know?

Ryan: Um, it was like he worked for Monash University, but like in printing, you know how like they'd print like a thousand flyers or like, you know, exam papers and all that sort of stuff.

Tommy: It's all in-house.

Ryan: So it's just this big machine that's, you know, a big printer and press.

Josh: That's cool.

Ryan: But like, and now he's like, so now what do I do?

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: Um, I don't know. He's just like, I got made redundant. And I was like, okay, shit.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: Um, but like you said, fourth handshake.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: It's like, when are you gonna retire? He goes, it was gonna be in a few years, but now it's next Friday.

Josh: I like the idea because I was saying this to a mate. I was saying, oh, their friend was made redundant. I was like, oh, that's awesome. Like, oh, it's pretty sad for them. But I feel like it's a— you get a bunch of cash because I think it's like a lot of businesses do every year that you've been there, it's a month. Is that how it works?

Tommy: Salary redundancy.

Ryan: And so if you've been there, the bigger redundancy gets.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: Like it balloons.

Tommy: Yeah. And then if you're owed like, what's the 10-year period?

Josh: It's like a long service, long service leave. So if you've got that up your sleeve, leave as well.

Tommy: Like, it ends up being a good thing because it gives you— it's paid time to look for new work if you're still looking for new—

Josh: looking.

Ryan: I've got a question for you, Tommy, about Josh's outlook on redundancies. Most people would see it as a real negative. Is he just a happy-go-lucky guy, or has he got it all wrong? Because when I walked in, you were like, oh, did you get a slice of that redundancy pie? People lost their jobs. Oh, whatever, you get the money, right? That—

Josh: but it's the thing of like, you get to do something else. It's almost like an angel investor in life.

Ryan: So you should be Grant Blackley's new PR guy. We are an angel investor in life and we are invested in 100 staff to free themselves and spread their wings.

Josh: Invest in angel investor in Audata.

Tommy: They should have invested their money there, to be honest. That thing's going up.

Josh: But I feel like, look at it like, look at Keegs as a great example.

Tommy: These are friends of ours that work in the radio space that have just lost their job. There was 100 jobs gone.

Josh: Yeah, when you— I don't like when you say it like that because it does sound fucking a bit sad.

Tommy: It was across the board. Some old colleagues are redundant.

Ryan: I remember when I was in my show, like, people who worked around our show, they're like, that role doesn't exist. And it was like a glum day, and that was just one person. So I can't imagine being there this week.

Josh: Well, yeah, I do wonder. I was thinking, what other— I wonder if there's ever been a role that I've been in that potentially could have been redundant.

Ryan: I don't think Like, I could look at— how much trouble do I want to get myself in? I could look across the board and point out a whole bunch of people that don't do fucking anything, right? I saw it for radio today, but I don't think it's as clinical as— I think it's just the board goes, we need to find 100 jobs, and then just the manager goes, fuck, I need to get rid of 3 people. Um, how can I justify— you get paid too much anyway. That guy, I don't really like him. And you, because I guess we should get a girl as well, but whatever, you know, it's just especially like your online, uh, on-air talent or whatever.

Josh: It's very much— yeah.

Ryan: And I don't think it's as clinical as like role by role going, how could we like merge that? Like, I don't know, they're just sweeping change.

Josh: It reminds me of one of my favourite films, Up in the Air.

Ryan: Oh, with George Clooney?

Josh: They go in and they just— do you know that, that film?

Ryan: It was his job to fire people.

Josh: Yeah. Oh, they would go in, I feel like they would have like, you know, July luggage or whatever, and they'd sort of roll on in and say, hey, Like, sweet. Or similar to, um, Walter Mitty. Oh yeah, I love all films that have redundancies because it's a transition. Anytime there's a transition in life, it's like when anyone moves on or does anything, even gets made redundant, I'm like, that's so exciting.

Tommy: Well, the, the worst is the walkout. So you're halfway through a day and then it happens. Have you had that before?

Ryan: I've seen a walkout.

Josh: You've seen—

Ryan: I've seen a walkout hit 92.9.

Tommy: Uh, was there any stink kicked up?

Ryan: No, because it's sort of the other way around. They go, oh, I'm leaving, um, but I'm happy to do my 4 weeks notice. And they're like, get out right now.

Tommy: What, what's the point of that?

Ryan: I think this person—

Tommy: what point of the sever? It's cut it off at the head.

Ryan: Well, the person worked in sales, and I think the point was we don't want him chatting to the clients and maybe taking them with him, or we just want to—

Tommy: but what if you've still got your notes connected to your iCloud and through your work email and you've got to work that out?

Josh: Yeah, wonder how many people are doing that, like when it comes to data nowadays. People like forwarding, well, yes, like you're forwarding on documents and things like that.

Ryan: I've always thought about that because I, most of my notes and thoughts and ideas before Evernote was just me emailing myself at work.

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I did that too.

Ryan: Yeah, and so I was like, oh, if I have like just left, then I'd have all my contacts and names and numbers and stuff.

Tommy: Um, KISS 101.1, when I worked there, I thought you got made redundant. No, I didn't get made redundant, I quit. Um, different, no payout.

Ryan: Yeah, exactly, you get no payout.

Tommy: Fucking shit house.

Ryan: You should go into the office and go, you know what, the role I do could probably be covered by those two other guys, so if you just want to smooth this one over, I'll take the money.

Tommy: The thing about redundancies, the role can't exist once they fire you from it, so that's why you're actually, um, as a— what is it, you're— you can be shifted. So they— in radio, I remember you're an announcer, so you're not a breakfast announcer because they're not going to— they could shift you out of the position as an announcer into the midday shift. Terrible. You don't want to be doing that if you came in as the breakfast person. But then your job is announcer, which means that you can't fucking kick up a stink really because it's in your contract.

Ryan: It's funny when you say they can't hire a new one. So back in the day I got offered—

Tommy: if they would make the role redundant, non-existent.

Ryan: Yeah. So I got offered a job at 96FM, which is in Perth, and, and I was like, oh, who's the GM? And they're like, oh, the GM was made redundant and we can't have a new GM because the rules of redundancy. So I go, but you can instead speak to our, um, Director of Commercial Operations. And I was like, is that just another name for GM?

Josh: And he's like, yeah, yeah, and they're also in the same office.

Tommy: This is— do you think this is why there's all these funny roles like popping up? Like head of, head of bloody lead gen. I don't know, but there's all these random roles now.

Ryan: It's like, you gotta—

Tommy: never heard of that before.

Ryan: We sacked— oh, we're sorry, we made redundant the sales manager, but we now have a, uh, a client relationship.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting around the job titles. I remember, uh, at one job I had, they were always saying, you know, Josh, don't get obsessed with your job title.

Ryan: But I would be a person that would be obsessed.

Josh: I'm like, no, but I want a better one. And they're like, it's doesn't mean anything. Like, it doesn't mean anything. Give it to me. Which is fair, right? It's such a good point. It's like, hey, look, if we're just throwing them around, just give it to me.

Tommy: I'll put lead in there.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Ryan: Yeah.

Josh: And so the thing is that I had a situation where I asked for a role name change. They pushed back a bunch, eventually gave it to me, but they said, Josh, the thing is this isn't connected to like financial thing or anything like that. So like, what's the point?. But then when it came to— that's why. Yeah, LinkedIn. But also when it came to time of evaluating everyone's salaries, they do look at the job title and say and see what the industry standard is. And so then I got this massive bump up.

Ryan: So hang on, you— they said to you, we can't change your title because it could mean financial consequences, and you said no, it won't. And then no, no, no, next meeting you said, look at my title, I want more money.

Josh: No, so they said that it like it doesn't mean anything.

Tommy: Yeah, saying you're not gonna hear Yeah, it's like, oh well, you're not asking—

Josh: like, it's not like your salary increase or anything, but then the long game, it shows that there is benefit in that.

Ryan: All right, well, can we do a little, um, on-air brainstorming?

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: Yeah, sure.

Ryan: So, uh, at Ticker, I've got a new show starting, uh, which is this week possibly. Um, and also I'm going to be doing a couple hours a week just to help them with some social media stuff. Yeah, nothing fancy. What should I call myself? Because it's funny that you just said, oh, use the word lead.

Tommy: Yeah, content.

Ryan: I can literally call myself whatever I want. Content lead.

Tommy: That's what I was.

Josh: I was a content content. The reason why lead is great is because lead doesn't necessarily say that you manage people.

Ryan: And but is it, is it cooler than saying manager?

Josh: Well, I think a manager could potentially imply that you have people under you, right? A lead is just you are senior within that.

Ryan: But isn't having people under you seen as good because they're like, yeah, and purely the only reason I want to choose my title is that if I need to apply for a job later, it looks cool.

Josh: I think I probably wouldn't go specific to social media.

Ryan: What about just digital lead?

Josh: So the thing is, if Ticker is an all-digital business, it's the first thing I learned is like you go from radio where it's like, oh, you've got the digital content producer. If you go to a tech company, you're at that point just a content producer because the digital bit is implied, right? And so I think you don't want digital at all.

Ryan: So I'm just a lead.

Josh: Yeah, no social media. I led, I'm a lead. I think something around— I would go broad, so I'd say something around, um, commu— I would say communication specialist.

Ryan: What's a, um, a Content 97?

D: That's great.

Tommy: Like that, you can—

Ryan: I don't know what this is, but I just think it sounds nice.

Josh: Communication.

Ryan: What is a content strategist?

Josh: So a content strategist—

Ryan: so I feel like we talk about strategies, we all make content for a living, but does anyone know what that title means?

Josh: Yeah, so it would be— it'd be very much looking at— so you might not necessarily be on the tools depending on how big the business is But you would be saying, okay, so say if you're the content strategist for the Daily Talk Show, you would be saying, okay, you'd be doing stuff on who the audience is, right? Then you'd be saying, based on that audience and the platform, these are the platforms we need to be on. You'd probably be even doing the measurements. So you'd be pulling in analytics from YouTube to Instagram, all that sort of thing, and putting them into spreadsheets.

Ryan: The way you said it made it sound like a lot of work. At the start, yeah, when you just said off the tools, I just thought it meant I rocked up in the morning and went, the people like memes, make memes, goodbye, and just leave.

Josh: Well, yeah, no, I think there's—

Ryan: it's definitely famous quotes from Jeff Bezos.

Tommy: Yeah, I reposted— you posted one of those, I saw that.

Ryan: I did that this morning. I made that last night on my laptop. Yeah, I led that.

Tommy: Did you?

Ryan: And tooled it.

Josh: I appreciate that. You're a tools man. No, so that— I think something I would go— communication specialist, content specialist.

Ryan: What about just specialist lead? I feel like that's the specialist lead.

Josh: Yeah, specialist lead manager.

Tommy: Yeah. What have you found coming from radio and looking at the job market and the types of roles that are now available compared to before you were in the radio game?

Ryan: Um, well, I haven't because I'm sort of working on my own and doing bits and pieces, which I'm actually loving, that kind of freelance drifter lifestyle. Um, so I haven't looked.

Tommy: You get the 3, 3, 3, you get the 3 rule.

Ryan: What's the 3 rule?

Tommy: Rule of thirds. Perth, Melbourne, country.

Ryan: Yeah, I can say the country is a lot less lucrative than Perth is. I'm going back to Perth again. It's like you can't say no to like good paying freelance jobs when you're new to freelance, I feel.

Tommy: Yeah, true.

Ryan: Going to Perth is a hassle.

Josh: With the freelancing stuff, a lot of people when they're starting their freelance journey, they get self-conscious about invoice numbers because when you're starting it'll be like invoice 001.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I mean, you've got to know that to be self-conscious of it. There'd probably be so many people that are just They haven't thought about it.

Ryan: They just make up a number.

Tommy: Number 3.

Josh: Well, that's the thing. I think that people, there are, I've seen forums where people are talking about like, hey, how can I do this? Like, haha, I add a 2 in front of the 0 or whatever. So it looks like 2001.

Ryan: No, no, that scares. That's such a Josh thing to care about actually. To answer Tommy's question.

Josh: It sounds like you've done 3 invoices by that answer.

Ryan: Well, I've been doing little ones over the journey. I've either been at least up to in the 40s.

Tommy: Okay, good.

Ryan: No. And that's the ones that I don't take cash for. They're the ones I have to pay tax on. They're the crap ones. Um, I think— and my friend had this same thing a year ago because he finished in radio— that outside of the radio industry, people don't realise all the skills you have in radio. Like, you've got producing skills, I've got all these digital skills, and they just go, oh, radio announcer? No, we're looking for a social media guy. And you're like, oh well, here's the thing about my show in Canberra. We didn't have like a social media guy or digital team. We broke all these records for multimedia and like we did that. Oh yeah, but like, you're a radio announcer. Like, I don't think people quite understand all the things you do, and I think that's up to us to communicate it. And my mate Taylor, he changed his whole resume so he was like a communication specialist who was also on air, where he was just a Workday guy that would pump a couple of memes every now and then.

Tommy: I mean, when you're looking at a job, um, the description when you're going for an interview or something, it's like you end up doing so much more than what's on there. All the stuff on there is like what they're leading with, like the top end of what they want someone to be even capable of.

Ryan: Yeah. One thing I found with— because I'm not qualified in marketing and stuff, I just assumed, you know, that we've all been around enough that you kind of get the basics.

Josh: I've seen enough ads, I've seen enough ads, I've watched enough telly.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah, I get it. But the craziest thing is these ones that are like an intern or a junior or a graduate role that need like 5 years experience. And there's so many different facets of like— there's content creation, so there's like, we need Adobe Premiere, After Effects, graphics, blah blah. We also need you to be a Google Words and SEO specialist and have 2 years in this, and also, um, be a great graphic designer, and also have existing clients. And then you're like, that's 4 different jobs, mate, and that's for an intern. Yeah, like, I'd hate to be a graduate now.

Tommy: I was thinking recently about like, there's kind of 2 ways there's probably a bunch of ways, but two ways to sort of get work, get stuff you haven't done before. And one of them is create the thing that you want to end up getting the work for. So it could be a documentary.

Ryan: Yep.

Tommy: Or do— or build contacts great enough where you can get given the opportunity and you slowly present. And I was thinking they're the same thing really, because you can end up with like radio stuff like when you first get your job, there's no way you've had a shitload of experience. You're getting— someone's putting their chips on you, or they're like, I think you can do it, and they have an opportunity so you can sink or swim. There's a lot of chance of failure.

Josh: The radio, using that example, is—

Ryan: is—

Josh: are you talking on air or on air?

Tommy: Yeah, for those.

Josh: But even like, do you think that that's changed? Because definitely, so 2012, great year, but also, um, I feel like it was a different landscape where it's like social media, not every single person was doing it. Whereas now video people— like, we've talked about this— video people within radio are actually really good. But when we were doing it, it was like hard to fill, and so there was always some form of compromise.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely the video stuff in radio stations has changed. I think there's more people who are more skilled now with video creation.

Ryan: I think it'd be the other way around. I reckon it'd be hard for a radio station— like, if you're a really skilled digital guy, I don't know why you'd want to work for radio station, like when you think of all the possibilities now.

Tommy: For sure. Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah.

Josh: So I reckon that probably was always budget. So I think that like in 2012, great year. The reason why that was exciting was it was because you worked there. Yeah. But also brands were spending money. So it's like brands were spending money and then you'll get some flow-on effect to do online video. But if you think about it, like, uh, you know, 7 years ago who was spending money in online video, who was doing online video. You had to go to these newer— and it felt like radio was better positioned than TV because TV was like, oh, we've got our resource, video resources wrapped up in the TV, the thing we do.

Tommy: And if they create some other product around video and it's not as good as the TV product, it's like they've got a branding problem.

Josh: Well, they had that, but they had to bake it in. They would never you would never want to cannibalise the TV stuff by doing higher prod value online.

Tommy: Exactly.

Josh: And so that's the other thing is that radio was this great thing where it's like, I remember getting in trouble because I, um, there was— have you heard of Voice123?

Ryan: No.

Josh: It's like a service, it's sort of, um, this is pre-Fiverr and all that sort of thing, but it was a very specific need which was a marketplace for voiceover artists, right? And so I did a, um, I went to London during the Olympics to film for Fefe and Jules. Yeah. And I wanted an English voiceover artist and I put it in. Yeah. So I put a request into Voice123, said, said, this is what we want. Anyway, Blackers, an audio engineer at, at the radio station came up and was freaking out. I said, just heard from our English voiceover guy. You know how there's like that British sound?

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: So there was one guy who's like the British guy.

Josh: Yeah, the British guy who does all the stuff for radio. He would do all the Hamish and Andy stuff.

Ryan: Yeah.

Josh: And he'd seen the ad that I'd done on Voice 123 and he freaked out being like, guys, like, we've got this arrangement. What's going on?

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And so it was funny because he snitched. Yeah.

Ryan: But the thing is, where's he now?

Josh: I don't know. Still doing voiceovers.

Tommy: But the thing is, he bloody shields that.

Josh: Just remember it was so— but the interesting thing is, I guess it was so siloed because you had on, on air. It was very hard for me to justify the digital content producer getting time with that voiceover artist. And so I was trying to figure out other, other solutions.

Ryan: That's smart. You didn't ever consider you doing your British accent?

Josh: No, absolutely not. I only do the American. I don't really—

Ryan: How's your American?

Josh: What's that? It's Ryan Seacrest here.

Ryan: Oh God, it's good though.

Josh: When you're in America, you went to— what's the, what's the place that Bridget loves? The, the clothing place? Everlane. Did you buy much stuff?

Ryan: Yeah, we spent a lot of money there.

Tommy: We walked past that in Venice when we were there. Did you? It was across the road from the park where we were hanging at the farmers market.

Ryan: Yeah, there's farmers market across the road there. And then next—

Josh: with Matt. What's their denim like?

Ryan: Really good. Really good. I just got some. They're really good. I recommend. But the thing I didn't know that in the US, like in Australia you just get like a 32 or 34, but in the US they're like—

Josh: or a 38.

Ryan: Hey, I'm— mate, I've had a big couple of months. I'm probably almost 38. But there's a different sizing for length and waist. So you can actually go, oh, I've got a big butt but I'm not that tall. So they've like, you know, you can get a 34 long, but it's like, it's so much better.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some companies do it here. I, I bought a couple of pairs of jeans that were too short, right waist size, but then I need a bit longer. Yeah, I need that length.

Ryan: Yeah, so Australia doesn't do that as much, but Everlane did it, and their whole thing is like, it's kind of expensive but it's really quality and it's ethically sourced and it lasts for like forever.

Josh: Because I don't like pay— isn't it like, you know, pay, uh, to include the cost of the factory workers, pay without?

Ryan: No, because they— and so everyone should— they should all pay their workers no matter what.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Ryan: They should have been an add-on to go, oh, if you want our staff to get paid, you have to pay more.

Josh: No, but isn't there like— I feel like I remember back in the day going on a virus at a restaurant, like, if you want to get the dessert and charge—

Ryan: pay $50 for it, then I can actually pay the guy that made it.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the sous-vide Um, no, so the— you're right, 97, the souvers. Yeah, the souvers. Um, no, the Everlane thing. So because I feel like it was very much like you could pay different amounts, is that gone?

Ryan: I don't think that was a thing anymore. Okay, because I wouldn't have paid as much as I did if I had a choice because it was kind of expensive.

Josh: Because yeah, I just remember there being a thing of like, do you remember that, TJ? Like it was sort of a 3— can you look this up, 97?

Tommy: Everlane. Everlane. I don't buy shit online. And you bought me bunch of t-shirts.

Ryan: Look, can I tell you something? I think you guys would really appreciate this. So for guys, they have this thing called the uniform, and it's like 10 pieces. It's like $300 or $400, but it's like, with those 10 pieces, it's essentially— the idea is that's all you need.

Tommy: It's like pieces.

Ryan: So like, it's a blue jean, a black jean, and a chino. Bang.

Josh: A couple of different shirts, running shorts, and a t-shirt.

Ryan: But because you guys like just the basics though, right? And then you set and they go, that's uniform, you're good to go for the next keep it simple, stupid.

Tommy: I mean, I, I got a— I was pretty happy with myself. I got a, um, little cheeky inbox from someone today just saying, hey Tommy, Lib here, hope you're really well. I've just started looking after the PR for Rod and Gun. They would love to gift you some product. Do you want to have a look on the website to pick out some stuff? We can arrange a store visit. I think, fuck, I'm an influencer.

Josh: Like, as an influencer, because this is like, uh when we've gone to restaurants or whatever and they've sort of PR, PR, PR.

Tommy: Well, I mean, I was— I mean, that's to me, that's free. That's just, you get to come in, we've seen what you do, we understand that, you know, you've got a bit of pull.

Ryan: And how do you feel about the fact that if you take that, which you bloody should, Rotted Gun, I know, one of my personal favorites, you've got to put in for Tuesday night.

Tommy: How do you feel about being an influencer Well, there's been nothing there saying that I need to post about it.

Josh: Nothing about it being free either.

Ryan: But the reality is—

Tommy: I'm pretty sure that's free, boys. Do you want to look on the website to pick out some stuff?

D: What?

Tommy: And then she's going to say, that'll be $99.

Josh: Sales tactic. Imagine if you'd be so embarrassed.

Ryan: Of course you would. Well, they invoiced you. Yeah, you'd be shamed.

Tommy: And then what about the follow-up? Are they going to say after I get it? So, and, um, yeah, so if you could just post a few pics, that'd be great. Like, is that how it works?

D: Yeah.

Tommy: Anyway, I thought I was special and then Josh—

Josh: Yeah, I got the same message.

Tommy: Oh, hang on, did you just get a message from—

Ryan: here's from Lib. In terms of like, you know, monetizing podcasts and stuff, the reality is that it's, you know, there's various, various trickles of stuff and a lot of people who have big podcasts make a lot of their money not directly from the podcast but indirectly, you know, through stuff like that. So, but so back to my original question, how would you guys actually feel because I got called an influencer the other day because I did this. They're like, oh, you're here for that influencer thing? And it just, it made me cringe.

Josh: Uh, I'm a community content specialist. Thank you. I'm a specialist lead, specialist lead influencer specialist.

Ryan: How do you feel? Yeah, that's kind of weird.

Josh: That's how we feel, like when we're doing the MTV Visit Vic thing, that's all on hashtag Spawn. It's all on our phone. And so there feels like, and every event we've been to so far there's been people with big cameras like what we film this on, like the C200, and they're there with their big lens. And then it's just me and Tommy being like, hey guys, we're down here or whatever. And it's just like, so there is something a bit uncomfortable about not having a full-blown setup.

Tommy: I have to say, compliment Josh, you've really leaned into that sort of presenting, you know, the JJ with the handout.

Josh: I really—

Tommy: hey guys, it's Josh and Tommy. Like, I really appreciate it. Thank you. I think you needed to bring it.

Ryan: Ryan, you've, um, I'm going for Rod and Gun, by the way, because my dad's name is Rod Dunn. So every time I see Rod and Gun, I just, I go, oh, is that— it looks like my dad's name. Dude, I can, um, I heard you know someone.

Tommy: I can, I can swing you a contact. Who knows, cheque your phone, you might have got one.

Ryan: There's one in Shoppingtown. So let's—

Josh: maybe we could do a piece of integrated content around Rod and Gun, but like the whole, like, ah, fucking post-redundancy, need to look good, sort of get some—

Ryan: a tradie makeover.

Josh: I love that stuff. I love that idea. Um, I think you'd get around it.

Ryan: Rod and Gun meets Rod Done. Rod Dunn meets Robin Gunn. Yeah, let's do a Thursday night. Let's go down there. It's a feel-good pre-Christmas story.

Josh: Yeah, that's a great—

Ryan: you cost them money not to do it.

Josh: I love it. Actually, we need a feel-good Christmas story. Everyone does.

Tommy: Have you got a feel-good Christmas story? I mean, you've just had Thanksgiving.

Ryan: I've got a great one.

Tommy: Tell us.

Ryan: Well, I just last week got back from Thanksgiving in the US, and I met my biological family and had Thanksgiving with them, and half of them I'd never met before. Thanksgiving Um, it's like Christmas but without the presents.

Josh: And so is there any controversy? You know how we've got like Australia Day controversial now, like, you know, can't do it. Thanksgiving, is there any of that or no?

Ryan: No problematic stuff.

Josh: Problematic, that's good.

Tommy: Other than vegans, there was a shooting.

Ryan: Did you say there was a shooting? 12 people shot. I was filming this thing hours earlier, but then I left. Um, and then it was in that area, like in the same spot. Where I was filming, the background is what got shot up.

Tommy: Oh geez.

Ryan: Yeah, so that's pretty wild. But apart from that, we didn't see anything bad and there's nothing Australia Day problematic about it. It's just awesome. And so I never met half of the fam, so I'd met the direct family, but I met all the cousins and grandpas and aunties and uncles and we just ate and drank and had a rad time, went to the NBA and just, you know, got to know each other.

Josh: I think I was, I was watching your video. Thank you for wearing the Daily Talk shirt.

Ryan: Oh, did you like that?

Josh: Yeah. And I was a little bit, I was freaking out about it.

Ryan: I just thought you hadn't watched it.

Tommy: No, I haven't.

Josh: I had watched it. Yeah, uh, but the stuff in your teeth was freaking me out. But the interesting thing, I filmed the whole video.

Ryan: Well, I didn't realise until I went to edit it and I was like, oh no, and I'd already packed the camera away. I was like, I'm not going to set that up soon.

Josh: What were you eating to get that fucking—

Ryan: I don't think I'd eaten that morning. It must have been there from the night before.

Josh: It has to be something. One thing I did notice, I don't know if this is being spoken about, but one of your family members I felt looked a bit like Bridget.

Ryan: Yeah, my cousin Adriana.

Josh: Yeah, problematic.

Ryan: Real problematic. As soon as I saw her, I was like, you look Really like the girl I sleep with. And then I'm making this new— I was going to say, have you seen the new one? But I haven't finished editing it.

Josh: Um, you got something in your teeth?

Ryan: No, no, I always have stuff in my teeth though. It's so annoying. There's like— this isn't the first time that it happened, but I put Bridget's glasses on and then Adriana like came in really close and she's got her glasses and it's like identical. Yeah, they got the same glasses and they got along really well. They're like besties. It's almost a shame they don't live near each other because they would be best friends.

Josh: Oh, that's cute. That's nice, isn't it? And so you did it all?

Tommy: Has she done an Ancestry DNA test?

Josh: Who?

Ryan: Bridget.

Tommy: She has.

Ryan: She did it when I did it. And she is from New Zealand and there's no link, I can confirm.

Josh: Yeah, good. Good.

Ryan: And so I was scared about that.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, that stuff happens.

Tommy: I mean, I'm sure—

Josh: I think there's been the ones where it's like, you know, adopted kids end up being like brother and sister.

Tommy: What would you do if you were related to Bridget? And it was like, like cousin of a cousin, you know, like, but there's still a somewhere down the line.

Ryan: I couldn't do it.

Tommy: So you wouldn't be with Bridget?

Ryan: You just, it would just irk ya, like you'd be like, it'd be a bit gross.

Josh: Irk ya? Not, you know, putting your socks in the washing basket, that irks. This is a bit different though.

Ryan: Yeah, no, that's true. I actually thought about it.

Tommy: You love Bridget so much though, I think you'd have to stay with her.

Josh: I think it would depend on like, if you're, if you're not planning on having kids, it's not prob— it's only problem.

Tommy: Yeah, no, it's only, there's a specific type. So Amy has a friend. Whose parents' cousin.

Josh: Yeah, and what's the deal?

Tommy: It's all good. And so yeah, I've had kids, they're kids, so they probably just did some—

Josh: they probably did some testing to see what the, um, back out testing. No, no, no, what does that mean?

Tommy: Getting it done, just test it. No, wait, testing to see what the test—

Ryan: I mean, like, blood test you could do.

Josh: I'm sure that you could do blood tests to see.

Tommy: I'm sure you could just look this up. When does it become a problem? When you have children with a family member. There is, I know there's a specific link.

Ryan: And in other news, I'm not envious of your Google search history.

Josh: I want to also just find out the Everlane thing very quickly. What's the deal with the Everlane?

D: Yes, you can, there's a selection so that they have a range called pay what you want and they have select prices. So, you got like $49, $55 and then $65 and you just select which one you want.

Ryan: Can you email that to me 3 weeks ago? That would be fantastic.

Tommy: You paid $65 US? Gronkh price.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: And the Australian dollar's shit. Oh, it's really expensive over there. Um, but I actually had the opposite thought. So when I lived in the— so when I finished high school, I got a volleyball scholarship, moved to the US, and I knew that my birth father was American. And so I always had this thought of like, you know, you're going to a college party and you're like, you could like randomly make out with some girl and find out later that she's your sister.

Josh: And that's so—

Ryan: and that's when I found out I had, uh, when my birth father was like, I've got two sons but no daughters, I was a little bit like That means—

Josh: did you find out? No, he said it's the deal.

D: Oh, just reading it now.

Josh: And what did that guy say?

D: No, no, I'm still pulling it apart.

Tommy: He's processing.

Josh: I appreciate it.

Tommy: He's looking at the pictures. Good info.

Josh: Are you bringing back a podcast in 2020?

Ryan: Uh, there's a few little bits and pieces in the, in the works. I've sort of— I've thrown in a couple of Hail Marys and to see what's gonna land.

Josh: What does that mean?

Tommy: Um, uh, just he's trying to dissect what he needs to say right now. Fuck, we've got Mason dissecting.

Josh: Yeah, dissecting.

Ryan: I've got a few ideas.

Tommy: Some of you and I just free-flowing.

Ryan: Some have been pitched to brands. Some other radio people have said to me, come in and make some stuff, um, whether you want it to be a show or a podcast. So there's heaps of ideas that I'm still kind of working out, but I'm not overly fussed with the podcast. I'm liking video at the moment, so I'm not actually—

Josh: yeah, I do.

Ryan: I think reach video can like reach a bit harder, faster.

Josh: I agree with that. Discoverability is a lot easier.

Ryan: Yeah.

Josh: Here's something we could workshop around monetization. We talked about it a little bit. We sort of took it off the table. We were going too hard in regards to monetizing about 2 months ago.

Ryan: And then so we're like, yeah, well, the time I came in here, we were all over it. Yeah.

Josh: And so we'd—

Ryan: was that what you think?

Josh: Yeah, that was in the—

Tommy: I think we're trying to break world records versus just start to run in the race.

Josh: Well, so I think the whole thing was it was like we were trying to make it— how can we make make The Daily Talk Show our main, uh, revenue source.

Tommy: Yeah, good problem to solve. And so what excites me—

Ryan: have I told Tommy about the Daily Talk Show bookstore?

Josh: What's—

Tommy: I don't know this, I can't remember this. Yeah, I don't— haven't heard that.

Ryan: How many of your guests have books?

Tommy: Oh yeah, I think you did tell me. Yeah, we've got bookstores over there. 7, 8, 9.

Ryan: So on Amazon, do you want to buy a book? You can build—

Josh: no, an affiliate.

Ryan: Thank you.

Josh: Oh, that's a great idea.

Ryan: Because you can go to— if you set it up, the daily— sorry, the amazon.com/thedailytalkshow and then you can put whatever products you want. Do that now.

Tommy: Do that now. Get that up.

Ryan: Choose whatever books you want on there. And so you know how at the end of every interview and every media thing they're like, oh, just go to sunrise.com to see about the book, or thanks for coming in, where can we— you don't need to ask them. You just go, thanks for coming in today, mate. Hey, the audience, if you want to buy this person's book, just go to the Daily Talk Show Bookshop on Amazon and then you get a cut. And you know what? You get more of a cut than the writer will.

Tommy: The author. What if it's been thedailytalkshow.com/bookshop and then it redirects to the Daily Talk Show? No, no, no.

Josh: So then it forwards to the Amazon thing. But then, yeah, but then we're not fucking doing Shopify and running logistics on a bookshop.

Ryan: Well, that's what I was gonna say. The best thing about that is you don't need to touch the books. Yeah, it just happens itself. And apparently authors— I was chatting to a friend who wrote a book and like, like an author, an author, um, and it seems like prestigious to say I'm an author, but, uh, the money is awful and you would definitely get more money in your commission than they would for writing the whole thing. Well, so, yeah, we were tough for them, so we're trying to work out the, uh, there's a few cents a week.

Josh: No, I appreciate it because 2020, the year of diversification of revenue.

Tommy: And so I think it's important, not all your eggs in one basket. You don't have 80% of your work coming from 20%. They don't have—

Josh: what you're trying to do, the 80/20?

Ryan: No, 80% of your income from 20% of your work.

Tommy: Yes. Yeah, because if you lose a few of them, you're done.

Ryan: Yeah, but so you want to get a lot of streams. I'm working off a lot of streams at the moment. I think it's good.

Josh: And so the, uh, so I think that maybe we could all get jobs, then all try and get made redundant next year and meet back here in 6 months.

Ryan: That'll be one of the great storey arcs.

Josh: But the thing is, it's not enough cash because it's all about longevity. You've got to stay in there for a bit.

Ryan: Yeah, but so, hey, you're in this show for 10 years, maybe this project can be a 20-year project.

Josh: So what we were—

Tommy: retirement plan back there.

Josh: No, uh, so what we're thinking is making the advertising on here more affordable. And so we went like quite expensive, like over $1,000 an episode.

Ryan: I didn't want to say that at the time because I was like, good on you guys for being like—

Tommy: but I kind of let you go, mate. You're a shitmate.

Ryan: But I kind of left thinking like, too much, because you said, oh, if we do that for every single episode for the whole year, we'll end up making this much a year. And I was like, fucking hell, if they can pull that off, good on them.

Josh: It didn't happen. Yeah. And so, but where I think that we've settled is, as I was talking, uh, to, uh, Chris Lawson from Lawson Media, he's got a, uh, new, uh, show coming out tomorrow called Supercharged, which is all about, uh, Tesla and Elon Musk and all that sort of thing. He's a Melbourne-based guy, but he was talking about CPM, like cost per thousand.

Ryan: Yep.

Josh: I think he was saying that at like the top end, he was getting like $75 per thousand downloads.

D: Yes.

Josh: And so with what we're doing, if we apply that logic, we should be able to get over 100 baht. Like, say we get average like 1,700 downloads per episode. Yeah, like 55— over 55,000 downloads a month on the show. What do you think if we charge $1,000 a week to advertise 7 days?

Ryan: Well, who— it just depends on who your audience is.

Josh: So I was 70% Melbourne.

Ryan: Yeah. So, and it depends on how that's valuable to a client. So this, I've written a, um, like a branded podcast project that I'm gonna hopefully sell the idea of.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: I was meeting with last week, but it's so specific that the client is like, oh, you're essentially talking about our product. The only people who are gonna listen are people who are gonna be quite similar to our customers.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: So even if they only get a couple of thousand, every single one of them counts. And so the, the tighter that is, the more valuable it is per thousand. Yeah, obviously if you have a million from everywhere, well, it's still a million, so you can still make money off that. But if you've got a small amount, so then that's where you got to say if it's a local Melbourne business and you go, well, all of our audience is in Melbourne, so you're not going to waste any.

Tommy: Yeah, it's probably what we're talking about here is specific ad reads for the show.

Ryan: So one thing that we're doing, because remember I said I was going to buy an ad and you guys said no.

Josh: Yeah, well, that was back in the day when we had cash. Now we're like No, I want to give you cash. Yeah, no, we'll take your cash now.

Tommy: Can you see him after? Write him out a—

Ryan: I'm going to do a campaign on to buy a week.

Josh: Definitely.

Tommy: You know how much it is now?

Josh: How much? $1,000. How does that sound?

Ryan: Okay, I'll do it because what I said to you, I was like, I'll do this thing.

Josh: Is that a yes? This is our first sale.

Ryan: Yeah, okay, let's make this sale right now.

Tommy: Opportunity, opportunity, opportunity.

Ryan: So I'm going to—

Josh: locked in.

Ryan: I'm going to sell 5 cups of coffee for $200 each.

Tommy: Right, 500 cups, 200.

Ryan: Yeah, so, so what happens is—

Josh: wait, say that one more time.

Ryan: So you buy a coffee off me for $200 and you say 500 coffees.

Tommy: So you say 5 coffees for $200?

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Yeah, he's making a grand from selling 5 coffees.

Ryan: 5 coffees. So when you buy a coffee for $200 from me, you sound coaching.

Josh: I like it, go on.

Ryan: No, so I come to the coffee with a bunch of ideas for your, your business and your branding things and then if you want to do them, then the coffee's free.

Josh: That's a great idea.

Ryan: Yeah. And so, and it'll only cost $1,000, and I'm only doing it for 5 people. And my whole thing is, is that if I pay you $1,000 for the week and I get my 5 coffees, then, then I'm, I'm breaking even.

Josh: Breaking even. Okay. If you say— yeah, yes, yes, yes. But then you could make a bunch more cash because they don't—

Tommy: if they don't pay for the coffee because they want you to to do the content for them. Yeah.

Josh: Okay. I love that idea.

Ryan: Okay.

Josh: When do you want to start?

Ryan: Well, do I get 7 days or 5 days?

Josh: Yeah, 7.

Tommy: 7 full weeks, mate.

Josh: 7 for $1,000.

Tommy: We're not here to jib you on a 6-day week.

Josh: And we can give you a free one now, which you just had.

Ryan: Okay. Okay. So let me just make this really clear.

Tommy: Okay.

Ryan: This is what's on offer.

Josh: That's GST.

Ryan: If your business wants to make some online noise. Oh yeah. There's a commission structure we'll talk about off here. Because I brought this client in, so I'll take a cut of the revenue, which is from me.

Josh: Wait, hang on. Wait, so you're now selling in us or you?

Ryan: Well, if I brought you a client, would you give me a cut?

Tommy: Depends.

Josh: We've never done commission stuff before, but what—

Tommy: how does it work?

Ryan: Money before. So I mean, it's all, it's all new.

Josh: So how do we, how would we—

Ryan: I'm saying if I'm bringing you a $1,000 client, I should get 10% of that.

Josh: Okay. So what about—

Ryan: to bring in the client?

Josh: I think we could do that. How about this? For every— no, Seb, what do you think about this? For $1,000, if you bring in a $1,000 client for one week, we give you $100.

Tommy: Okay. Yeah. So this is for the ad-specific stuff.

D: Yeah.

Josh: This isn't about coffee. I'll take that deal. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, so if you bring us a sponsor, well, I have— for $1,000, we'll give you $100.

Josh: But then if you— if they bring us $5,000, we'll give you $500.

Tommy: Yep, correct.

Ryan: Yeah, that's how it works. So anyway, this is what I like. This— if you contact me or the Daily Talk Show and you say, Ryan, I would like to purchase a coffee for 2 of them, direct them, we'll do it for $9.50. If you want to make some noise for your business, you want to make sort of like a fun viral-ish video that kind of shows off your product or videos um, let's sit down and have a $200 coffee. I'll pay for the coffee, that's included in your $200, and I'll also bring a page of different ideas.

Josh: Is it cannibalising what we do? Because I'll probably hire you to film it. Okay, yeah, sure, yeah, I get that.

Ryan: And you'll charge me like a lot more than I'm charging the client.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. So we end up making that money.

Ryan: You make the money, I'm out. The person who buys it gets a good video and I just lose a couple hundred bucks and a lot of my time.

Josh: And somehow SEA paid.

Ryan: I made myself redundant and paid myself out. And then we'll have a page of viral ideas and you might go, don't like that, don't like that, do like those two and that one, maybe tweak that one. And then if you decide to make them, you get your $200 back and it's just regular production costs. And if you don't, just, you can just take the ideas and shake my hand and see you later.

Josh: What do you think, 97, about all this?

D: That's great, I love it.

Tommy: Are we putting it out to the Gronk Squad too?

Josh: So yeah, if you can, so 7 days a week you get, what are they getting? They're getting a live read.

Tommy: Live read.

Josh: What happens when we have like like, you know, you've got Michael Bungay Stanier on the show and it's like, oh, it's a Daily Talk Show episode 535, Michael Bungay Stanier. He's like, hey guys, it's like, Michael, before we get started, I just wanted to—

Tommy: it's a pre-show, it's pre-show, it goes out. Depends.

Ryan: Can I give you an example of that?

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: All right, we're all gonna laugh and—

Tommy: okay, ready?

Ryan: More after the sponsor.

Josh: So we do that midway through, then you cut it in. I don't know about mid-roll. What do you think about mid-roll?

D: No, I'm not too keen on mid-roll.

Ryan: Yeah.

Tommy: Pre-roll, post-roll. That's just a naming.

Josh: So do you think it's, uh, the Daily Chalk Show is brought to you by, uh, Ryan John. Uh, if you need a video, set up a coffee with him. It's only $200 and, uh, you get a page full of ideas. Go to ryanjohn.com.au and book it in today. That's ryanjohn.com.au.

Ryan: Don't say the website because then I have to like cheque it and see if it works.

Josh: .au, sorry.

Ryan: I just don't know what's there. Can you cheque what's on my name.com 97. Just go ryanjohn.com.

D: Okay, .com.

Tommy: ryanjohn.com.

Ryan: Oh, I'm nervous.

Josh: Yeah, I said that. You just—

Ryan: just be my monthly click.

D: Oh my God, this is old.

Tommy: Yeah, is it?

Josh: It's here. What does it say?

D: It's yours.

Tommy: Big hair.

Ryan: What's the latest story?

D: Surprise engagement.

Ryan: Oh, that's not too old.

Tommy: Let's get that Thanksgiving video up.

Josh: So, yeah, so I like this. So 1,000. So that means that we could cover our lease every month.

Tommy: I think people don't give a fuck about this. This has got nothing to do with it.

Ryan: Why don't you do a separate podcast that's just like budgeting? And not like budgeting advice, but just like you listen to us do our budget.

Josh: I think it's interesting. I think people would want to know.

Ryan: Yeah, how much does this cost, this place cost you?

Josh: It's like $40,000 a year, isn't it?

Tommy: I mean, anywhere without goings, you gotta add about $10,000 on any commercial lease. So if you see the amount, $33,000, you see it as $55,000 per annum, it's $65,000. Costs, insurances, rates.

Ryan: So you're saying you have to sell one of these every— you have to sell a weekly thing every single week to pay for the building?

Tommy: We're not relying on it though.

Ryan: Yeah, I know.

Josh: If we'd been relying on it—

Ryan: let's pretend you're not trust fund babies.

Josh: Yeah, which we are. Did you say that? Did you see someone in the comments, or did we talk about it?

Tommy: No, you just think that's funny.

Ryan: I just thought it was funny.

Josh: Oh, that's a very good intro.

Tommy: So someone said that we were trust fund babies for the amount that we do this Yeah, they're like, how do these guys make money?

Ryan: You're like, spoiler alert, we don't.

Josh: Okay, I think that's really interesting. So that's potential one way of diversification of income.

Tommy: I like it.

Josh: We're doing other stuff where we're doing some, like we're working with our host, uh, Ventra IP. They, uh, we have like a great, uh, web host for all our— because our website has so much content on it.

Tommy: Mr. 97, tell— so he was tasked the operation of of moving all of our information from one server to another, um, and you were in touch with Venture IP. Tell us what happened when you called and spoke to a young bloke at Venture IP.

D: Oh, it's great.

Josh: So they're all Aussie-based, based in Narre Warren.

Tommy: Yeah, it's great. Love a fucking—

Ryan: all your data to some bloke in Narre Warren.

Tommy: They've got it sorted.

Josh: Yeah, that's so good.

Tommy: 24/7 support is great, dude. I love it. Fucking local. I was with another provider that ended up selling, they still stayed local. So I've stayed with that. I like locals very— I mean, Dick Smith's right behind it.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: Now I know you guys don't want to do this, but you got to let Mr.

Tommy: 97 finish the story.

Ryan: Please continue.

D: So is this—

Ryan: I know you don't want to let him finish, but please.

D: Anyway, no. So I was on the phone and I was calling up to see how a transfer of the website was going. And the bloke that I was talking to, he was one of their support representatives and his name was Ross, and he listens to the show.

Ryan: No shit.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: How good is that?

Tommy: And he wanted to handle the migration.

D: He wanted to handle our— the daily talk show migration.

Tommy: Web guy Ross.

Ryan: Can I just tell you, as someone who's a D-grade celebrity in Perth, yeah, when fans want to handle anything of yours, just let them get their hands on it. We love you, Ross.

Josh: In terms of massage places.

Tommy: Ross from Venture IP.

Ryan: Of course, the massage places. Why do you think I visit you on Victoria Street every now and then?

Tommy: For this interview?

Ryan: I don't think so.

Tommy: So what were you saying? You're saying, I know you don't want to, and then you're going to get into something. I interrupt.

Ryan: I feel like every influencer— and but that's different for you guys because you guys have genuine knowledge— has an e-course or something. And I, and I know that you know that you could make money doing a how-to-podcast course or having people in here and teaching them how to do stuff. I feel like you'd both enjoy doing it. I would love it. It'd be interesting, and it's ripe, and it's one of those evergreen that once you've made this cool online course, then it and it's finished and it just ticks over and rolls along in the background. You can— it makes sense to plug during your show. You're like, oh yeah, something about the camera, you can cheque it out on our course. Like, it's an easy natural sell. So why don't you do it?

Josh: Yeah. What do you reckon income-wise we could like— so say if we're doing all the diversification of revenue, how much should we be looking at? So say if we're making $4,000 a month off ads.

Ryan: Well, I think the whole point of having the multiple streams is you can go, oh, not a huge month there, but we had a good month there. And just overall, it's just got all these trickles in. And I feel like that course, yeah, You guys know what you're doing. It wouldn't be hard. You could physically make it because you've got all the gear. Well, then once it's up, you think it's online, digital online course.

Josh: Okay.

Ryan: Because I mean, there's various ways to do it, but I think it'd be because then anyone in the world can buy your course for $99. It's got 30 video tutorials.

Tommy: I think there's a— here and how to talk, all these book guests and like, there's a lot of work into them. So there's a, and there's, and we're flying. So I think it's an actual in, in-person course to start with, to understand what people's needs actually are.

Josh: $250 a pop.

Tommy: And we've, we've written this and and done the copy and we're going to put it out, but our focus wasn't there. We need to put it somewhere else. And so we're going to run those.

Josh: What about the— what do people need, do you think? Like if we're to really lean in, because the education thing excites us. Yeah. But we want to make sure that whatever we do gives heaps of value.

Ryan: I think the strategic thing to do would go into Google Analytics. And literally, I'm a strategist, leadership lead specialist, um, lady You can actually find out what people have Googled. So if there's a high search, people are all searching for what equipment do I need to start a podcast, then lesson 2 is what equipment do I need to start a podcast.

Josh: And you do that with Quora back in the day. So I like, uh, uh, to work out what videos to make at Envato, I would look at the top questions on Quora and then create videos, and then I would respond with an answer saying, hey, I made a video about this and it worked.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's— yeah, that's strategic.

Ryan: It is the CreativeLive, not model, but yeah, when you say you're thinking about doing an in-person course, you just do that and then film it, and so it becomes both. You can charge people for the day and then it lives online forever. And I think, like you said, lots of work setting it up, but Ryan Holiday did a course on CreativeLive 5 years ago and he still says, oh yeah, I still get that monthly check, and gets a cut because once it's done, then it it's, it's done.

Tommy: Oh yeah, I mean, these are things— the thing is, we think about this shit constantly. Yeah, there's, um, so it takes the time, right? It takes the time for to even feel like you have authority or something to think of.

Ryan: All the people that don't have authority who are just pumping it out.

Tommy: But don't be, don't be, don't be the illusion— don't be disillusioned. Don't be confused by all the courses out there thinking that they're actually making any money. Because the amount of people like our mate Matt D'Vella is going to be releasing some sort of online course, education course. He will kill it. His people are tapped in and he's built trust. And so the amount of people have come to me, us, wanting us to film their online course. The reality is they will sell 5 of them.

Ryan: Yeah, right.

Tommy: And then they'll be like, ah, that's because they don't have enough.

Ryan: I think there's definitely something around that for a lot of people and they might not have the, I don't know, the SEO skills and the, like, you know, you you're going to use your smarts to then market that course. But I think how many podcast courses, how many teachers teaching audio skills at universities have hosted 300, 500 episodes?

Josh: That's what everyone says, 300, accidentally.

Tommy: I'm curious about what was that? Is it, you know, too? Do you know what happened?

Josh: I didn't know that joke. What happened is that a lot of people say 300 instead of 500 in regards to episodes that we've done. Like, it feels like a round number that people want to know.

Tommy: They just found a shave off 200.

Josh: And so Um, okay, well, you know what I'm saying?

Ryan: If you could be like, there's all these podcast courses, but these guys have done fine.

Josh: How do you make it not cringe? How do you make— I guess part of it is like, I worry that there is—

Ryan: you worry about what people think of you?

Josh: No, no, no, I worry about what I think about me, and a part of me is like, I want it to—

Tommy: that in turn means that you worry about what people think.

Josh: No, because if you—

Tommy: so if you created something and you saw it as cringe and then released it, you'd understand people would be thinking it's cringe. So you've got the final say on it being cringe or not. And so, and so then on the other side, you'd think that's actually people thinking it's cringe.

Josh: Now, what I think about how if you see someone else do something and you're like, I think that's a little bit cringe, I just want to make sure that it's good.

Ryan: I think the difference would be the word could versus did. There would be a lot of courses that say this is how you could get these great guests, but I think it just takes a lot of the wankiness out of it's going This is how we did get Seth Godin. Well, the only thing is, oh, here's my strategy for guests.

Tommy: You're like, oh, Dad transferred me $50K, I sent it straight to Seth and we flew to New York on his jet.

Ryan: I called the trust fund manager.

Tommy: I just, he's mates with Sethi. Yeah.

Josh: I just worry though, the answer, the answer, like for those types of things, people want to hear like, oh, you need to do this on LinkedIn and do all this. The reality is if you think about the way that we do it is we build relationships. Like how do you communicate?

Ryan: Are you filming this? This is the course, mate. You're saying it out loud.

Tommy: It's about building sexiest course you'll find on the internet.

Josh: Yeah, great, starring Josh Dance, the least sexy guy in Australia.

Tommy: That would probably cut through.

Ryan: You go, you know what, there's all these little how-to, but this is the reality.

Josh: It's called the Singlet Sessions with JJ.

Tommy: Casey Neistat, yesterday I was listening to an old podcast on Tim Ferriss, 2015. The fact is that guy at that time in 2015 had just started vlogging and he references being in the city for 15 years. So he hadn't made it yet. He'd done other stuff, done bits and pieces, but he hadn't cracked it mainstream until he'd spent 15 years giving it a red fucking hot crack. It's a long time. He was 34 or something at that point. And then, yeah. So the reality is it takes a long time. And he was also saying that— I was telling Josh this earlier. I think you should re-listen to that chat. I think it's relevant for what you're doing. Which one? Tim Ferriss and Casey Neistat.

Ryan: There's a Casey, not chapter, but in one of Tim's books it's got like an excerpt.

Tommy: Probably from that, yeah, Tribe of Mentors. Um, but Tim was saying how, you know, people have suggested that I go on YouTube. I, you know, people have said the boat sail, the ship is sail, whatever. Um, you know, people have sent me to your stuff. Um, what would you suggest? How do you, how do you sort of make it? And he's like, there's no, there's no fucking one answer. If I knew the answer, I could write it down. Or people would have written it down and people would have followed it. There's some principles and consistencies throughout a lot of these people who have killed it, but it does change. Like, he's a big believer in the quantity, not necessarily quality of the footage as a filmmaker. And there's people who've gone the other way.

Josh: I've come up with a name of something, so we've got to go so I can write it down and spitball. But Ryan John, I'm not telling you now. We'll do it off air. But, uh, are you gonna come in a bunch in 2020? Would love for you to be a regular.

Ryan: Is that all right? Because I don't want to, I, I don't want to like impose.

Tommy: I'm going to stop asking because I've asked that many times.

Ryan: What?

Tommy: I've asked you to come in and I have to ask you. No, mate, I asked you.

Ryan: All right, I'll be in a lot more. Great, because I've got a— I'm doing 2 days a week in Melbourne next year.

Josh: There's the coffee thing and all that sort of thing. And that— can we invoice you now for that $1,000 before the end of the year?

Ryan: Yeah, now let's sort that out.

Josh: And then who do we invoice to?

Ryan: Ryan John Creative has just been set up.

Josh: Who priced Ryan John Creative?

Tommy: PTY Ltd.

Ryan: It's not a company yet. It's just a sole trader.

Josh: Sole trader. That's fine.

Tommy: I've been a company. Look at this guy, ex-accountant, fucking knows how to work the system.

Josh: Registered for GST?

Ryan: Not yet. Nah.

Josh: Nah, I get it.

Ryan: Well, I should though. I should say I'm registered for GST. Well, you charge 10% more and just keep the money.

Josh: That's definitely not—

Ryan: I think if you earn $75,000 or more, you have to.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You can back it though. So if you don't make it to that, that, you can then— yeah, we can—

Josh: when I was younger, they would say don't register for GST, and then when you start making it, then add it in. My thing is, if you're working for big clients, you just don't want to be signalling that— if you, especially if you're doing a $20,000 job, how much do you think people judge you off your invoices?

Ryan: You're talking about invoice numbers specifically, other small business operators, other big companies are like, if you're doing this, just some chick from payroll going, yep, cool, send it off. And you know what, you want to know a fun fact? If they're reading the invoice, they've already agreed to do whatever the— like, they don't look at the invoice and then go, oh, one, no GST, fucking nah, see you later.

Josh: I think there's a little— like, I definitely place, uh, contractors in certain boxes of where they are in regards to their business based on those little things.

Tommy: I actually think it could make you feel better as the person on the other end. I don't necessarily know. What Ryan's saying is like, maybe, maybe not.

Josh: Get used to having GST.

Tommy: Yeah, I like the GST.

Ryan: Okay, I'll charge you guys GST. Hang on, who's paying here? No, we charge you GST.

Josh: But the thing is, no, we're doing it anyway.

Tommy: We have to charge GST.

Josh: That's not— yeah, it's— you're the account— you're the accountant.

Tommy: He's been out of the game.

Ryan: I've been out of the game for a while. I had to— I was, uh, chatting to this person. I was going to make a video for them, and they're in like the financial services thing. And like, I've been out of the game for a while, and they had like a bunch of questions like, oh, I just see this new thing about the thing, and you're up to date with this thing? And I was like, yep. They wanted to have a conversation about— I was like, I'm across it.

Josh: Yeah. How do you keep across that? Like blogs? Just read the paper, I guess.

Ryan: Oh, I bought a newspaper the other day and then was like, who the fuck does this every day?

Josh: AFR? Like, what are you buying?

Ryan: I just, I bought the Age on a Sunday because I had like a coffee and I was like, oh, I'm just gonna sit down and read the picture book.

Josh: And a burn from Herald Sun featured Hey Tiger, and so we've got it and got photos and stuff. That's great.

Ryan: Yeah, newspaper, it was weird. I had a moment, I was like, who does this?

Josh: Well, I was wondering, I was asking Bree about like, you know, the newspapers. She's like, Herald Sun, for instance, very well regarded. Like when we're at the NGV, they're like Well, a bunch of like the NGV when we're there, it's like, oh yeah, the Herald Sun were in taking photos. It was all—

Tommy: it's all legacy media though. How much is it really moving the needle? This is what we don't know. Yeah, this is what no one knows anymore.

Ryan: Yeah. I mean, old media's like the walls are starting to cave down.

D: 100%.

Tommy: You can't promise that just because we print 600,000 copies of the paper in a day.

Josh: Is that how many they do?

Tommy: No, no, it'd be fucking way less. Way less. But just say if it's 200,000 a day, they can't promise that the eyeball is 200,000.

Ryan: Did you know, just while Mace, I think, is going to look that up, the other day Channel 9 came out. You know how they did that upfront? Have you guys done your upfront?

Tommy: I don't know what upfront is.

Ryan: That's when a media company comes out and says, here's what we're doing next year.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: And so I think big media companies should come out and go, next year, the Daily Talk Show returns. Yeah.

Josh: Or it's got a special series and stuff. Because that's normally in an event space and they have sort of—

Tommy: yeah, that's all right, we can do it.

Ryan: Yeah, so anyway, Channel 9 at their upfront said we're doing this new thing in digital where, um, if the viewer doesn't watch the entirety of your ad, if it's a pre-roll or something, you don't pay for the ad.

Josh: So you—

Ryan: we only— Channel 9 only charge the client if the person watches the whole ad and doesn't press skip.

Tommy: And now they're paying people who put one of those boxes on their TV to register how long the ad runs for. Really? No, but that's how do you— how do they get data about people watching ads?

Ryan: And I was like, so you're not going to charge me if someone picks up their phone during an ad break? I was like, no one watches TV ads, bro. Give me all my money back.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly. You know, my point is, how do they— they can't— they don't know how long someone's watched an ad for. Yeah, that's all they're doing. That's about as much as they can.

Ryan: Do you guys with your production company make TVCs?

Josh: No, we haven't done—

Tommy: it's one for him.

Josh: I need to probably do one.

Ryan: I've, uh, I've—

Tommy: that's my wife. I've shot, um, stuff for cinemas and stuff.

Ryan: But is there, is there really particular, like, yeah, technical things?

Josh: Yeah, well, there's a bunch of— you have to put it through AdStream or whatever, which is like making sure that all the data rates and all that sort of shit are right.

Ryan: Because I was thinking, I reckon we could buy— I want to make an ad for some business of just for me, for my Instagram page. Yeah, and I reckon for about $100 I could get 50 placements on regional TV.

Josh: Really?

Ryan: Yeah, it's because they can't give it away. They just need to fill the slots.

Josh: You sure?

Ryan: When I was in Bunbury, that Channel 7 were charging $2 per thing.

Tommy: Let's get a daily talk show in Shepparton. Hey guys, I used to be on radio. That post, people are missing me in Shepparton.

Josh: We could definitely— so maybe, no, is it irresponsible to take the $1,000 we make off you and put it into Shepparton ads?

Ryan: I mean, no, I reckon it's a good idea.

Tommy: It's a good investment. Invest in the brand.

Josh: All right, so who do we talk to?

Tommy: Let's—

Josh: someone from Shepherden.

Tommy: Yeah, we say we have a $1,000 budget, what can we get?

Josh: Yeah, and we can do the TVC.

Ryan: Um, just before we finish up, Amy's just arrived, Tommy's wife. Can I say Amy gave me some really good advice for the proposal video, so I just wanted to publicly say that.

Tommy: Oh yeah, great.

Josh: What was the advice?

Ryan: Okay, well, originally it was going to be a huge surprise, and she's like, no, you got to leave the kill a surprise thing to the end of the video. So I totally restructured the whole thing.

Josh: Don't do the surprise.

Tommy: Ryan wanted to— can I say what you wanted to do?

Ryan: I was going to make an amazing race.

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah, but which means she would have known it was proposal day from the get-go if she had completed the task.

Ryan: Yeah, but then the amazing race, you know, you're marrying her. Yeah, but she still has to complete—

Tommy: you're in the doghouse if you don't.

Ryan: It would have given me so much pleasure to like Go away.

Josh: Not today.

Ryan: If you had to get it done faster, yeah, we would have been engaged by now.

Josh: I think it's probably good.

Tommy: All right, let's go to the boardroom to finish off this deal.

Ryan: Let's get this deal done.

Tommy: It includes TV, opportunity, opportunity, opportunity, coffees locked in.

Josh: It's very fun. It's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com. It's hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you'd like to, uh, book 7 days for a grand on The Daily Talk Show, purchase a $200 coffee. Should they send you an email?

Ryan: No, go through you guys.

Josh: Okay. Oh yeah, because of the commission we get. Hang on, we We haven't spoken.

Ryan: I just want you guys to know if your advertising works, because if you don't get any emails, then you might need to read.

Tommy: It works.

Josh: Okay, great. Uh, also Apple Podcasts, if you enjoy the show, leave us a 5-star review and we might even read it out. Would you do that, 97, if they, if they leave a review?

Ryan: Can we read a review right now?

D: We can read a review.

Ryan: That's the last review that came in.

Tommy: Because I got to pick up my kid.

D: One from Sam, 5-star review: Such good guys. I've just recently started listening to the Daily Talk Show and I gotta say it's a good listen. The guys are super down to earth and positive. 'Not only does it brighten my day, but most of the time I learn something that I want to implement into my life. Also, you can't beat a daily podcast.

Tommy: Great listen.' Fuck yeah, Sam.

Ryan: What's his name? Sam.

D: Sam.

Ryan: Can you just say, 'Ryan says you're welcome'? Can you reply to that?

Tommy: You can't reply to that.

Josh: Can't reply to that. Fuck. Also, congratulations to Jodie Scanlan.

Tommy: Yeah. Happy baby day. Baby.

Josh: Beautiful baby named Charlie. Little Charlie. Little Charlie.

Tommy: I love, I love that name. We wanted that, didn't we, Mossy?

D: Mm-hmm.

Ryan: One more thing on the record before we leave.

D: Yeah, sure.

Ryan: Tommy gave me a contact last week for a company. The guy left 8 months ago.

Tommy: What company was it?

Ryan: Um, RØDE.

Josh: Oh really? Did it? That's why he hasn't been getting back to me. Yeah, it's like good news.

Tommy: I got the contact of him.

Josh: So the thing is, we literally like, I started using Sennheiser microphones.

Ryan: You mean that guy left? You mean this guy?

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Ryan: Can I speak to him? Oh, he left in May.

Tommy: Oh, okay.

Ryan: I better tell Tommy.

Josh: That is so funny. He should have had bounce back on his email. That's ridiculous.

Ryan: You've been messaging this guy.

Josh: I use Sennheiser microphones on all of our, um, uh, US trip because I'd cracked it because I emailed Rode asking to visit them in Sydney to say hello and he never got back.

Tommy: He may have got a redundancy and he's got a new job.

Josh: Where is he working? Sennheiser?

Ryan: No, he's head of communications at some other—

Josh: lead communications.

Ryan: Specialist lead. Specialist lead.

Josh: Okay, well, I'm going to look that up.

Ryan: Dan Murphy, great guy.

Josh: Uh, anyway, let's start the talk show. Set apart, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.