Kate Meade On The Art Of Asking

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 471, and we've got Kate Mead in the building.

Kate: Thanks, boys.

Josh: Welcome to Melbourne. You were— how long did the drive take to get here from Warrnambool?

Kate: Am I including the travel and the getting stuck behind trucks and stuff like that? Today it was 3 hours 45 minutes, but that's nothing.

Tommy: Warrnambool is heading towards the ferry. Port Fairy. Yeah, I mean, lots of good fishing trawlers. I've got a friend who, his father has a fishing boat out there. I've spent a bit of time down in Warrnambool.

Kate: It's where you see the whales.

Tommy: I mean, always good to start a podcast with some food chat. One of the best hamburgers out of Warrnambool.

Kate: Kermin's, are you talking about Kermin's hamburger?

Josh: Yeah, I've never been there.

Kate: Oh my goodness, next road trip you're coming to Warrnambool. My daughter works there, we could probably hook you up.

Josh: Oh, this is good. This is the reason you're on the show.

Kate: I was kind of hoping that, you know, I'd be here for Fat Friday, but you know.

Tommy: Well, we could take a Fat Friday down to Kermin's.

Josh: Oh, definitely.

Tommy: I first had it when I was probably, 13, 12 or 13, stayed in Peterborough, went to Kerman's. I just looked, 70 years they've been open.

Kate: Yeah, it's incredible. And they just actually opened, which I thought that they would never do, but another store in Geelong. So they've kind of done that first franchisee type thing. So yeah, it's interesting watching, but it's just the same every time. You know what you're going to get. It's the best hamburger in the world. That's it.

Josh: Is it the old like fish and chips style? Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: It's like Andrew's Hamburgers in Melbourne. Sort of that same. Style, tastes like, you know, you cook the patty on your barbecue at home, just real good. Yeah, real good.

Josh: Kate, you're one of the people who, you've got a regional show, however, it's anything but regional in regards to the types of content you're creating. We're looking at your Instagram yesterday and scrolling through all the places that you've been, 'cause I was like, I'm sure Kate's been to LA, How does someone who has a radio show in Warrnambool pitch to get something like being able to travel around the world?

Kate: So I suppose the first thing is it doesn't matter that it's in Warrnambool or it's in Melbourne or it's in Sydney. The pitch is still the same. You're not thinking, oh, I'm in a regional area or I'm in Melbourne or Sydney. You're thinking, how can I best provide the best competition or the best content or what's the most funny and get to it?

Josh: So content directors, though, Are there a lot of content directors that are saying, no, it's all about local, you've got to be in your, in your town?

Kate: Like, it's the hardest. It's kind of a little bit difficult to explain, but for every market that we're in, we have localised spots for every single station. So I'm kind of moving off track for you, but say from 5 o'clock in the morning, I'm recording local spots and so is my on-air partner John for every single market that we're on. That all play at the same time. So for example, if we're on in Warrnambool at one stage, we're also on in Swan Hill, and at 7:15 we're both firing off the same spot. But in one place I'm saying, we've got $7,300 at the Murray Downs Golf and Country Club, and in Warrnambool I'm saying, did you see the whales this week? Get down to Logan's Beach, this is amazing. And so that's happening for 8 stations right across regional Victoria and into southern New South Wales.

Tommy: See, Josh would fall apart trying to remember $7,300 over just even any sort of cities involved.

Josh: I would have said the whales were in Swan Hill. I would have been going down the Murray, wouldn't be doing too well.

Kate: No, yeah, you've got to be really careful. And so some mornings you have to play it back because you go, did I get the right town today? You know, did I write the same call like 1332 3SH or 11:34, you know, 3CS, you know, you've got to know all the calls for all the stations.

Tommy: I mean, the thing is, even when you're just speaking to one audience, you put stuff out that wasn't meant to go out. I did it a heap of times.

Josh: Shepparton. I mean, you're a gronk.

Tommy: Yeah, I am a gronk. It was a gronk move. Even playing other people's ads.

Kate: It was your first week.

Tommy: No, that was one and a half years in.

Kate: Yeah, every time I ask a question at the moment, I go, it's my first week. I'm sorry.

Tommy: It only lasts so long. But I think It's still okay. Have you stuffed up a bunch?

Kate: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I've got a great on-air partner. And isn't that the thing? Like when you've got someone that you work with, you've got each other's back to pick up.

Tommy: I thought you were going to say you blame it on him.

Kate: Well, that's what I do. I think, you know, the ultimate first lesson was if you make a mistake, own up like almost the second that it's happened, you know, rip that bandaid off straight away.

Josh: But if you say it first, it's more powerful if you say it first, right?

Tommy: So As you might have known, I was in Shepparton.

Josh: He talks about it a lot.

Tommy: No, but I didn't grow up there. I was a blow-in. But you grew up around that region.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: So this is like you got your own brekkie show. It's like if you grew up in Melbourne, you got your own brekkie show in Melbourne.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: Is that like— that's pretty fucking cool. It's—

Kate: yeah, it's crazy. It really is. So, I mean, you grow up listening to the local stars and things like that. And I suppose for me I always wanted to be in radio, but I thought it was only for cool people.

Josh: So you realise it's the dorkiest group you could possibly imagine.

Kate: And I didn't realise that I'm an absolute ultimate dork when it comes to all things audio and radio and how it works. So yeah, so I just go, you know, it's just all a bit of a dream come true. Like, yeah, you have your mornings where you go, what am I doing? 3:30 or whatever. But you go, this is the coolest job.

Tommy: And so Intern Pete, who is your bro.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: Was he wanting— I know he started his career quite early.

Kate: Yeah, same station.

Tommy: Same station.

Kate: Same station. So, you know, like I've got— he's laid the path, you know, and it's, you know, he's had an incredible journey.

Tommy: I mean, but he helped you by going by Intern Pete, first name Intern, second name Pete.

Kate: You know, we've got a really great relationship, but Peter is so well known. And I'll go, yeah, yeah, Peter Deppley, he's my brother. And I know I either got, oh, or I get, oh, he's amazing, you know, but it's mainly the second.

Tommy: Well, you'll get why if you listen to that episode with him. Yeah.

Kate: So he was, he's always been kind of that push for that. But yeah, we watched him. We watched him start locally. We watched him. I remember him being on Merrick and Patrol and to go back to talking about pitching an idea. You know, I was in the dance industry fairly heavily and he was working on the American Highway Patrol. And I remember I was saying, I'm trying to build this thing at the dance festival. We want to do something really big, something really special, but I've got no money, I've got nothing. And he said, oh, you know, it's a bit like the Carbecue. And I'm like, what's the Carbecue? And he was saying it was a— Merrick wanted this old car, this old Ford, and he wanted a barbecue built in the, in the boot. And so Peter was a producer at the time with, you know, the team, and they had to get a free car, free tires, get an engineer to put the barbecue in the boot type thing. And it was just a matter of leveraging on what you've got, you know, to get them to come on board. So he just used to say that all the time.

Tommy: Well, you said you've been on radio 3 years, third year.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: And this year will be the end of my third year.

Tommy: End of your third year. So before you had the dance The dance school or the dance festival? Like the festival. Yeah. So you built this thing that had hundreds of people coming.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: And you mentioned before we have a mutual, which is Craig Harper. You got Craig down to talk. Tell us about this.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: So I can't remember where I found Craig online, but, you know, essentially the whiteboard lessons and his cut the bullshit attitude on life. Stop whinging about it, just make it happen thing. The dance industry is just this incredible but very— exactly the same as the radio industry or any industry when you look at it. You know, it's really quite tight. But the Victorian Dance Festival, part of it was we would organise a professional development day for the business owners and every year they'd come along or you go attend other conferences and it was all very, you know, it's dance. So it's, you know, lovely and beautiful and sweet. And I thought, you know what, we need someone to come through and just go, what are you talking about?

Tommy: He's known as the Velvet Sledgehammer.

Kate: He dropped the F-bomb in the first 30 seconds and I was like, this is going to go well. And to this day, people still say he was one of the best, best speakers that they've ever encountered. And, you know, for me, he always just said, stop, Kate, you're not, you're not thinking big enough. You know, you're just not thinking big enough. So any time I come up with, oh, let's do this, I think, what are the, what's extra? Think bigger. So don't. Yeah. Yeah, like he used to say, why did you call it the Victorian Dance Festival? Like, think bigger. And I said, well, the Australian Dance Festival was taken, so, you know, like, and he said we should have went the Australian Dance Summit, you know. So yeah, he would really push. And so we started treating the Victorian Dance Festival like VDF, like KFC. So it wasn't Kentucky Fried Chicken anymore, it was, yeah, KFC. So VDF. Yeah, so we wanted it to become VDF.

Josh: And the— so that entrepreneurial spirit going back to that pitching side of things, being talent and going in and saying, hey, I want to do this thing, is that an unusual thing or is that very common?

Kate: Apparently it's unusual. Yeah, I didn't realize. I didn't know. I think, um, the challenge I've got at the moment is I think like an entrepreneur but I'm not the boss. So yeah, I'm like actually working for someone and there's rules in place and there's managers and you know, when you start moving outside of the box that you're supposed to sit in, which is turn up and do the radio every day. You know, you have to very quickly learn how to look after all of those relationships.

Tommy: How do you do it? Because I think I suck at that.

Josh: Yeah, that's why we work for ourselves.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Because no one will employ us. Yeah. So you, I mean, you've got the, you've done an amazing job of being able to do what you want, actually get overseas, pitch it in, and still be like employable. So you've obviously got a knack for relationships.

Kate: I had a strategy when I got the first job, which was fly in under the radar and try not to make a scene. That was the first part.

Tommy: That was not Peter Deppeler's advice.

Kate: No, no. But see, he'd left a fairly decent legacy that I needed to, you know, but yeah, fine. Learn, learn and get really, really good. And so that then a trust would build, I suppose. Again, I had incredible support around me. Me. But at the end of that first year, I actually called a guy called Jamie Angel. He's up in Sydney, Triple M. And I said, I just don't want to be the girl in the room that giggles or laughs along. I need to get really good and strong on air. And, and I've got this whole other side, you know, of business management and marketing and PR, and it's wasting, you know. So he put me in contact with Craig Bruce And very quickly, yeah, got the mentor and got— I just wanted to get as good as I could fast so that then I could start introducing all those other skills. And it's very hard to say no to someone, or I got very comfortable with the word no. Like, I'm okay if you go, ah, no, okay, we're not interested. And I just go, oh, it's just not no today. There's another way. So it was just, yeah, just getting really good at, yeah, looking after the people around you and finding out what their skills were and listening. And then finding out what they want and then painting a picture so they can't say no.

Josh: You're very good at the ask. I heard an interview where you were talking about people are afraid of asking. Yeah. Has that been something that has been learnt over time? Where did that come from?

Tommy: Mum.

Kate: My mum and Peter and I will both say, I mean, she was the, we lived regional Victoria, country dairy farmers, you know, like, so there's nothing special or whatever, just hardworking. Tough. People, you know, yeah, they work from the moment they woke up, but they would take us down to Melbourne and Mum would say to us, you know, if you ever get lost, you have to go up to someone and say, where do I go? You know, like she would send it, she would stand somewhere and send us off to go and say to someone, oh, where's, you know, Swanston Street or whatever and how far away is it? So we had to learn very quickly to get used to responses from people. And yeah, don't be afraid. You know, if you're afraid, you've got to push that down because how are you going to get forward? How are you going to get forward if you don't ask the questions?

Tommy: Rejection therapy.

Kate: Yeah. From like 6 years old. I don't know if it would fly in 2019, but I'm going to do that.

Josh: Well, now it's just Google Maps. That's the problem.

Tommy: Well, you're in your phone. Yeah, I guess. But so it removes that, that, yeah, building that muscle to be able to do these.

Josh: The friction.

Kate: What's the worst thing that could possibly happen? You know, like no one's dying here and we're not committing murder or doing anything illegal. So if you say no, Big deal. It just might not be the right time, or there might not be money in the budget, or they just don't like you.

Josh: Have you had a surprising yes from a question that you thought was going to get a no?

Kate: Oh, regularly. Because once you have that theory and you throw it out to the wind, you start asking more questions, and then, um, you know, you're always surprised with the answer. What's the recent one? Oh yeah, I'll, um, uh, I was playing backyard cricket with my kids last December and I sent an email off and I said to my group general manager and to John, my partner, co-host, and I said, wouldn't it be funny if we could play backyard cricket on the MCG? Wouldn't that be, you know, awesome? Because we're everyday Australians, we're not, we're not athletes, this is never going to happen. And they're like, yeah, if you can get the MCG, we'll, um, we'll support you, we'll support you. So I found out who was in charge of community engagements and stakeholderships and I got I got on the phone and I said, hey, it's Kate Mead. I'm wondering if I could book in a meeting for you. I've got a bit of an idea. Can I have the MCG? And within 2 weeks we got a, yeah, we think this is a great idea. So in the next couple of weeks we will be rolling this out, absolutely saying that, you know, if you are a regional Victorian who has always dreamed, watched cricket on the TV and thought, oh, I'll never have that opportunity, we're going to give you that chance. And that come from a silly idea of just watching the kids play backyard cricket. Thinking we'll never be athletes.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: Wouldn't it be funny if we could get the MCG? Why don't we just ask instead of saying, nah, that'll never happen?

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: Let's see what they say. If you—

Tommy: do you see yourself as creative?

Kate: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Tommy: And so in the business sense, like, I see, I see you as creative. I mean, I'm asking just a question to see if you think it, but the, the business stuff and, and the creativity in the Dot Connection versus the, you know, coming up with ideas, which one came first? Was it the, did you see approaching business as a creative endeavour or is it a business head?

Kate: So yeah, so that would be the business side of it coming in, the practicality and the finance side of it. And just having that understanding that, so great idea, but in order for that to happen, there's gotta be some type of buy-in from all stakeholders. So it can't just be a fluffy idea like, oh yeah, we'd like to play cricket, you know, like, How's it going to work? Who's going to fund it? You know, have we got support for on-air time? All those types of things. So even to pitch it to the content director. So I had the idea in the morning, I was sending the email that afternoon, but I'd already had to think about all the steps. So stack the notes, you know, stack it so that they can't say no to you. So paint the picture like you've thought of every single area. Is there a local, local sales strategy?

Josh: That was the first cough that Mr. 97's ever done. That was quite impressive. Are you okay? It's a pistachio.

Kate: You can turn your mic off.

Tommy: You don't have to. Cough into it. Radio 101, podcasting 101.

Josh: Is he okay though? Are you okay?

Kate: He's not.

Tommy: Water, water got him.

Josh: Have you ever done this on air? Has this ever happened to you, Kate, where it's been this bad of you coughing like this?

Kate: Oh no, I've probably just more lost my voice and I sound like a man. Are you okay? I'm really worried about you.

Tommy: I'm all good, I'm all good.

Kate: He flushed a bit, you know, probably because you've Pointed that out. I'm going to play it on and pretend like it didn't happen.

Josh: Do you have a dump button?

Kate: Yeah, you have. Well, legally you have to.

Josh: Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: 7-second delay.

Josh: And so going back to making that call and talking about stacking things, is that about making sure that you have everything organised before you make the first call? The pitch.

Kate: Yeah. Before you make the pitch.

Tommy: Well, because I think some creatives can have these great ideas and they also don't have the answers for some of the questions that would be required to get it across the line. And so you put things forward hoping that we don't have to present these answers for you. Yeah, but trust me, it's a great, great idea and it will work.

Kate: Yeah. And that's the gap. And I think, um, for me, if I didn't know something, I would get to find out how to do it online. So when you have no money, so the business side of it, that's what running my own business taught me. When you don't have the money to hire a marketing person or a PR person or someone to do the books or a spreadsheet or whatever, you got to learn it. You got to learn it quick and you have to be upfront with people and go, I don't know, you know. And that's why, say, in the radio sense and pitching that idea, you know, my— and wanting to get better and get— reach out to Craig was because there were gaps in my knowledge and it drove me nuts. So I could— in that first year of radio, I might have been having ideas, but because I had too many gaps of how the radio kind of worked. I wasn't really getting anywhere, so I had to get good quick. That's how I looked at it.

Tommy: Knowing how to use the tool allows you then to be creative with the tool.

Kate: Whipping up, you know, a frenzy of, you know.

Josh: And so if people are in a market where they've got a CD or a producer that feels like they're not allowing them to be creative, are there mechanisms to get buy-in from people and to build those relationships?

Kate: Yeah, well, aren't relationships everything? I think that has to be negotiated or having that meeting and saying, hey, listen, I feel like I'm hitting some brick walls here. You know, like, how are we going to work through this? You know, or how can we tell? So I always say, tell me what the rules are. Yeah. You know, so I can play the game because then you can bend them.

Josh: And what are the rules in the area that you're in?

Kate: Rules with the ideas?

Josh: No, I think like, is there Because say, taking the regional example with Tommy being in Shepparton, he could have thought, oh look, we've got to be local all the time. We've got to be talking about the storey at the shopping center, not going to LA.

Tommy: We got told, no, you have to go local.

Josh: So that was a rule.

Tommy: The biggest thing we got was going to the Logies. We got a hotel room each and we got to record the, you know, the breaks and send them back. And yeah, I mean, that was about as far as it Got it.

Josh: And so this is a different— so you're syndicated amongst a bunch of different areas.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: So this is, I guess, the new age version of breakfast in some ways where it's like you're— is it voice tracking? Is that what they call it?

Kate: Yes and no. So more of a no than a yes. So we have localised spots that play out in every market, all that play out at the same time, but then we're live the rest of the time and it's It's just that we're not saying we're wearing— like you guys wouldn't say, yeah, we're sitting here in Ferguson Street. You know, like it wouldn't be—

Tommy: Yeah, because we don't give our address away.

Kate: Sorry.

Tommy: No, we do.

Josh: We need a dump button.

Tommy: You can look us up.

Kate: Especially when you get the radio people.

Tommy: You can look us up.

Josh: Hey Ferguson, please send any free stuff. Oh yeah, I was gonna say, all the boxes, send us mail.

Tommy: It's on the front door.

Josh: PO Box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria is easier just because we're not always here. Yeah.

Kate: So how often are you saying where you are anyway?

Josh: Well, this is the funny thing because Tommy and I are always talking about like, I love the idea of painting the picture. The first 20 episodes, I would say things like, oh yeah, like the weather outside and stuff. And Tommy's like, you're doing a fucking podcast.

Tommy: What is 2020? You're listening to these guys talk about—

Josh: it was 2018.

Tommy: No, but saying 2020, if you're listening.

Josh: Oh yeah, yeah, sure.

Tommy: People 3 years earlier, it's like, but that was gone.

Josh: But there is something in being able to make people feel like you're in a similar sort of spot or things like that. If it's not geography? Are there other rules? Like, what is the rule book for you?

Kate: Oh, it's that word, isn't it? Relatability. That hopefully the storey that we're telling, or the piece of news that's happening in the day, is something that's affecting their lives. And it's so— we're putting that unique spin on that same storey that everyone else is telling. And hopefully the way that we're telling it, you can't get that anywhere else. And so you have to tune in to The Morning Rush to hear what does John and Kate have to to say about that.

Josh: Are there commonalities?

Kate: So we're like everyday people, like we're not superstars. Do you know what I mean? We're just like you and me, you know, we're not. Yeah.

Josh: And so are there commonalities? Like I think about those shows like Bobby Bones in the US, he's got a bunch of markets or whatever. I think about like, okay, country radio, they like certain things. What is the demographic or psychographic of a listener of your show?

Kate: I always think, yeah, so on paper it's 45 plus and you know, we've got music from the '70s, '80s, and '90s, less of the '90s obviously. And they're just country hardworking people, so they don't want to hear too much fluff. We get Peter Ford in who does a celebrity report, and we get Tony Leonard to talk about all the sports, you know, and they have a great affiliation with those. They're our characters. But yeah, they're just everyday, nothing too over the top or fluffy, you know, it's just everyday living stuff. So that's a common country thing, you know, good manners and, well, you know, Aussie larrikin, have a laugh, don't take life so seriously.

Tommy: Yeah, the simple ones that connected for me, like the phoners that did really well, were just the most simple, relatable things. I got hit in the nuts at the, uh, at the shopping centre. I was swinging my, swinging my red basket and I just hit myself. And that old school feeling, you don't get it much when you get older, of you feel like they're coming up into your stomach. So many people, when did you last get hit in the nuts? Oh mate, I was putting down the blinds last night and they got me. Just things like that.

Kate: And there is nothing. I mean, we're so lucky. The, you know, John has been on this show for something like 14 years. So he's, you know, he's the king of it, really, the market. But the people that listen to the show, they're kind of like family members and you get a real kick out. We have no problems getting calls and you talk about crazy topics. I mean, this morning I saw someone in my news friends had, you know, friends on Facebook wrote the Pavlova. Did it come from Australia or New Zealand first? And I just thought, I'll whack a poll up on Facebook, see what happens. Someone commented underneath it, no. And you know what gets me? I'm a New Zealander and Kiwi, Kiwi, Kiwi, oi oi oi, actually was ours first and you guys stole it from us. So You know, then all of a sudden we start talking about it on the radio, people start ringing up, and then it turned into not just pavs and where it come from, but it talked about, you know, Christmas, what you're bringing for your Christmas food. Like, people love to talk about food.

Tommy: Oh, it was an all-out brawl.

Kate: It was just all on, and then New Zealand people are angry at us.

Tommy: I find that like regional or outer city areas, the news and what they cover can sometimes get a bit quirky and interesting. Like, for example, gates were getting stolen. Around the Goulburn Valley area and one bloke stole 300 or 400 newspapers. Yeah. And so we did this thing, was like, what could he possibly do with these newspapers? Give us a call. Let's just make it up. What could this guy actually do with it? And so we got like, oh, he's going to lie on his floor. He's got heaps of cats or something funny like that. Is there anything specific to these regions where you broadcast to that you're finding some sort of quirky stories?

Kate: Oh, I just— it's always full of it. And so the trick then is, is is making it so a little storey might happen. Yeah. About the, you know, the gate thief or whatever it might be.

Tommy: Ain't got one too in Moordabo.

Kate: But it has been known to happen. Yeah. So say that storey came out of Sale. So that's Traralgon area, our market up Gippsland. We then have to look at that and then go, is there elements that make this networkable? So we don't have to say it was happening in Bairnsdale, but would you believe this guy has been stealing gates, you know, or whatever it the storey is. But yeah, so that's the trick of it, finding the local stories. But even there's fun in even comparing local newspapers to the Herald Sun some days, you know, like Herald Sun's leading this storey and, and we're leading with, um, cocky copper kicks 4 goals on the weekend, you know, from, you know, mate, finished with burnouts in the divvy van, you know. And then have you been in the back of a divvy van? Yes, hands up. Yes, I have.

Tommy: Yeah.

Kate: And it just, yeah, it's great.

Josh: What are the things that stand out for people is as in, oh, that's very metro. Like, what is something that just goes over people's heads or they don't really relate to that might be, say, on a national show? So like what people within Melbourne are talking about that doesn't connect with people.

Kate: Some of the, oh, I don't want to say it doesn't connect, but it just depends on the show, doesn't it? It's like 3AW, we're going to be talking about things that Fifi, Fev and Byron, there's no way known in hell they're going to talk about it. So I just think Yeah. You know, for me, you get in at 4:00 in the morning or quarter to 4 and start looking at what's happened overnight type thing and you write it all up on the board and it's just a matter of finding out what the— what's going to connect most with our listeners and knowing that we take news, national news that's coming out of Melbourne. So they're going to get the national story. So we get a real kick out of, you know, David Armstrong. We can grab his audio out some days, you know, because he said something funny that we can't place in the news or. Yeah. So and pull things apart that way. But yeah.

Josh: And with John doing 12 years and then you coming in, was it a shock for him when you're like, all right, I want to go overseas?

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I suppose it was a gamble. I thought you were going to say I just had these awful memories. We had a big night on the drink one night and I said, oh my God, like we were about 12 months in or whatever. And I thought I was a nightmare when I started, like I was green as I had no idea what I was doing at first radio job and we're on these big show. And he said, yeah, I'll never do it again. I would never take on a newbie again. And I thought, I've killed him.

Josh: I was like, what was it? What were you— what do you think? What, what's the— what was the grain in you? What were you doing?

Kate: Just no experience. Everything was new. Talking in front of a microphone, how to tell a story. Yeah, they took a big gamble.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Well, you don't know what you don't know. And so— and there's a lot that you don't know going into that.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: And it's lovely now because I say any bad habits, really, it's John's fault.

Josh: And so you went to, so how long in, so I guess it was 2 years in.

Kate: So we'd done that first 12 months and we had a planning meeting. John came down to Peterborough and I had written out a list of the top 10 things that were happening for 2018. Everything from the Royal Wedding to, was it the Commonwealth Games were happening, lots of different things for the year. And I, went through them and I'd left the royal wedding at the bottom. And then I said, wouldn't it be amazing if we could go over and do, you know? And he was like, Kate, I have been with the company for 24 years and I am telling you that there is no chance that they are ever going to approve this. And then he took a moment and then he said, but I'll tell you what, if you can pitch it and you get a yes, I'll support you. And I said, okay. So we called our CEO, Mark Taylor, then and there at my kitchen table. And he said, yeah, sounds all right to me if you can get it. If you can get the partner, what would a partner look like? And, you know, so yeah, he helped us work through the names of partners.

Tommy: And John like, oh fuck, I didn't want to go, now I've got to go.

Kate: I think he sometimes says that every day. What have I said yes to? But yeah, so that's how it come about. And then of course, because, you know, it hadn't been like how we— everything had to be mapped out. So I called it the playbook, really. Everything John got to, we just divided up all the jobs. Jobs. Like, how do the technical requirements work? Who's going to handle the partnership? That was the most important thing with Trafalgar. And little details like the logo, where's it placed, and on all our information going out. Is there a local sales strategy? So can we sell this locally to try and monetize this a little bit? Well, yeah, there was. You know, local travel agents were able to buy in radio advertising. If you're loving John and Kate's excellent UK adventure, you can have one too. Pop into Hello World Travel. Yeah, so we were able to You know, just, you know, I keep talking about that whip, like you just keep whipping things up until everyone's, you know.

Josh: And what support do you have within like the network and the station? Do you have integration tactics? Do you have producers? Like what sort of the—

Tommy: That's all her job. Sounds like it.

Josh: Sounds like you do.

Kate: And I need, you know, and that's probably that moment that you go, that is probably the difference that we're talking about between a metro radio show and a regional radio show. We don't have those resources. So we have incredible teams in you know, and we've got great group content directors, content directors. Our CEO is very hands-on, which is lucky. John, with his experience, means that he has bought the trust. Yeah. So Kate might have a crazy idea about something, but because John is the good stayer, they're not going to get too carried away because John's going to keep it all in line. So that's really, really, really good. But yeah, that's the difference. We don't have that. So if we want to make something happen, you know, sometimes John will say, yeah, cool, you want to play backyard cricket? Off you go. Okay.

Tommy: But then you've got, you're in control more so because you're the one who has to make it happen. Yeah. With your business and when you were growing that and where you got it to, what was some of those things that you applied this approach to for your own thing that, you know, didn't have anyone saying yes, you can do that or no, you can't do that.

Kate: So just to paint that picture for you, the Vitruvian Dance Festival was started in 2013 as an idea that instead of travelling to a metro city to experience the best dance instructors in all of Australia, maybe just for once we could have it in our own backyard, right? So there was no reason to come together other than we're gonna pick out the best instructors and they're gonna teach you how to dance. So people wouldn't have access to, and we had 117 people come on that first one. Now at that same time, I was trying to get a radio job and I was getting 1,000 nos. Same time. So every no that I got, I enrolled in my Master's of Media and Communications here Swinburne. So I would drive down to Melbourne and I would do 2 hours worth of study and then drive home. But what I was learning in that was PR and marketing, you know, and how to tell a storey and things like that. And so what happened was we were starting to apply all those types of things, all the stuff that we do now in radio to a dance festival which had not been done before, you know. So we would have an event then, and I remember saying to our photographer, you know, we might only have a couple of hundred people here, but you need to make it look big. You need to make this look like I'm sitting at home and I wish I was at the Victorian Dance Festival, you know, so that that kid that sees it on Instagram or on Facebook or whatever goes, Mom, I need to buy that $250 ticket and I need to be there the next year. So the following year we had 1,300 people turn up and then the next 100% increase. It was a lot.

Josh: Don't do math. I'm so sorry. And then the next year we had we had 2,300.

Tommy: Okay, let me do the math here.

Kate: And it kept growing. And then we started building partnerships with people, with big companies, one of them being Energetics. And they'd always said, Kate, it would be amazing in Melbourne. And I just— a flippant, you know, those ideas that happen. And I had said, well, I'd only go to Melbourne for one thing, and that would be the Melbourne Town Hall. Like, if this country girl is going to go to Melbourne, she's going straight to the Town Hall. And they said, okay, well, we will give you $20 grand. You go to the Melbourne Town Hall, Kate. And so we had 5,000 people in the Melbourne Town Hall. We couldn't have fitted another person in there. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah.

Josh: And when you were trying to get a radio job and all those no's—

Kate: I get so embarrassed.

Josh: Yeah. What was it like? Did you have like an air cheque or what? Like, what did you actually—

Kate: Oh, it was awful. Yeah. So my radio storey was Again, so same year, 2013, enrolled in the Melbourne Radio School, which is now closed. And then thought because my brother had got a job straight away that you would just do the radio course and then start working the radio station. And it didn't kind of pan out like that. So, but what would happen was I'd apply.

Josh: Do you think you'll miss, like, do you think that there are people that are selling that dream? Like, where do people get that idea from?

Kate: So my challenge though, to be fair, was I could only, I've got 3 kids, so I could actually only go to 2 radio stations. My options weren't that big because my husband, bless him, said, well, that's great, you've got this dream, but we're not just going to pack up and move to Queensland, you know, for you to take that first job. Like, you've got to get something locally.

Josh: Yeah. And with radio, it's like people go everywhere.

Kate: You've got to take the first job wherever it comes up, right? So I used to apply for jobs for fun. Like, am I any good at this? So just let me know. And then they go, yeah, you're good. Like, can you come up? No. No, sorry.

Tommy: It's the best. Yeah, I'll do this job.

Josh: No, no, I just want to check. It's almost like the dating scene. Just like you're going on dates.

Tommy: Will you go out with me? Yes. I don't want to anymore.

Kate: Exactly. I know it sounds awful, but I was looking to see, you know, do I need to let go of this dream type thing?

Tommy: So it's the ultimate troll.

Kate: It's so good. So essentially what would happen is a job would come up. I remember a job come up and it was for the local newsreader in the And they said, well, Kate, you've got a lovely voice, but we're going to go with the guy who's been working at the local newspaper. So, you know, he's obviously a journalist. That makes complete sense. So I enrolled in the Masters of Media and Communication. So the first subject that I actually enrolled in was journalism. And then the second job that come up was production. And I thought, how hard can it be? Sorry. And so stupid, so naive. Thought I could handle it. I had some basic skills and they said, yeah, nah. And so I enrolled in advanced production so that I could edit and make the ads if I need it. So if the next job come up. So my theory was become a jack of all trades, you know, like just keep going, you know, and I balloon bombed a radio station.

Josh: What does that even mean?

Kate: So I sent— so, you know, the saying in radio was top of the mind, right? So I only had 2 stations and I was like, I was watching people get employed and I was like, oh, they're great. But you know, they get the job. Yeah. So I balloon bombed one of the stations, so I sent 1,000 balloons in just with a card that said, top of the mind, you know, like top of the mind.

Josh: I reckon I went to see the Penguins the other day. They said how bad balloons are. So you probably killed about 10 balloons for that. No, they weren't letting them out.

Kate: But apparently it was very sad the next day when they come in and they were halfway.

Tommy: What did it cost you?

Kate: Lots of money.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kate: I invested. Yes, I am.

Tommy: Back a balloon?

Josh: And where do they get sent? How do you get it? Is it a truck?

Kate: So someone had to turn up at the local country radio station with all these balloons. Yeah. And let them know. And I wanted just to say, hey, I'm here because I'd been up to Sydney with Peter and I'd met this girl and she said to me, I turned up at a radio station with biscuits in the shape of stars. And I said, I can bring you the stars. And I got hired on the spot. And I thought, This is how you do it. So, you know, 6 months later I sent a cake that said, top of the mind. This is what I say. I'm so embarrassed.

Josh: This is so good though.

Tommy: I love it.

Kate: Top of the mind. I'm still here. I'm keen. I'm just letting you know.

Josh: Is this at the balloon station?

Kate: Same one?

Tommy: The balloon girls are back again.

Kate: But she's bought cake, so it's okay. So cake, top of the mind written on the top of it. Just want to let you know. I'm at uni now and I'm doing these subjects.

Josh: Yeah, that's so good.

Tommy: Well, I think there's the naivety in it at the start, and looking back and feeling it's cringe. It's like, yeah, it might be cringe to you now, but if you don't— if you didn't do that, it might not have worked.

Josh: That's also all you had at the time, right? Which is like, you were realizing, okay, I don't have these skills yet.

Kate: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: But if I hit them with enthusiasm—

Tommy: yeah, I mean, the person that sends a blue didn't work, but also probably would write a haiku. Poem? Did you ever write one of those?

Kate: No, I pulled the line at poems. But so then I thought, okay, I've probably, I've probably done everything I can do there before I started, got too annoying.

Josh: Which station was it?

Kate: The one that I'm at now.

Josh: Okay, great.

Kate: Right. So the other station.

Josh: And what was the job? What was the specific job that you were asking?

Kate: No, there was no job.

Josh: You were just topping up rides.

Kate: I just, I, I just, I. I met with the local sales manager because I thought I could do sales, you know. And I remember she said to me, what do you want to do sales? And I was like, because there's so many opportunities. Like once I'm in the door, man, you know, like the world's our oyster. You just got to let me in, you know. And I think they thought, yeah, she's a lunatic. Exactly.

Josh: If you can get past those balloons.

Kate: So yeah. So then, yeah, look, I, the other station, I sent crayfish and beer.

Josh: Crayfish and beer.

Kate: Yeah, that was before Christmas. Yeah, local crayfish and beer. And, and I thought, okay, now I go quiet, now I go quiet and I get to work. So really just be ready the moment that an opportunity comes up. So study. What do I need to know? Yeah, get reading out loud, you know, practicing. I started, so I was building the dance festival at the same time and I was loving the story. So I started travelling around regional Victoria telling the was in interviewing the storeys of the studio owners and making them the focus. And then that became my marketing. I was telling the storeys of country dance. Yeah. So all the skills that I was learning for this dream job in radio, I was applying to a dance festival that was skyrocketing and then finally got the, finally got the dream job and then realised you can have everything but not all at once. And an opportunity come up. I can't believe I've done it. But yeah, an opportunity come up. Someone said, would you 'Could we buy your dance festival?' And I thought, when does, when does that even happen?

Tommy: Like, what was KFC?

Josh: They bought it.

Kate: They thought they were getting KFC. So yeah, I still get it. Yeah. So that's, I say it's so embarrassing and it's, you know, it makes me come across like I'm really full on.

Josh: But that's, but that's the way to do it.

Kate: You were.

Tommy: You sent 1,000 balloons.

Josh: 1,000 balloons is huge. It is also a feeling of choice.

Kate: That might have worked, or, you know, like those kind of stunts might have worked. I don't know.

Tommy: Oh, maybe not even, maybe not metro stations, because I feel like—

Kate: Well, they wouldn't have got past security.

Tommy: No, I feel like it's a unique approach to a regional, if they're called regional, or provincial station. Like, it's probably more stands out in these markets because they're like, oh, here's someone that really, really wants to give it a crack.

Kate: Yeah, well, I thought that was the theory, so maybe I was a little over the top.

Tommy: Well, you don't know. Here's the thing about all these opportunities we create is we don't know if they would have happened if you didn't do that. So if there's one thing in the process to get there, like I've started a bunch of businesses, I started one, got into a bit of debt with one, and it was if I didn't do that, Josh and I wouldn't have been doing the production stuff together and wouldn't have started communicating and working out, let's do some creative stuff and do the podcast. Yeah. And so I think I could easily regret all of those things I've done. But I can't because, well, that's the way that you get to the thing.

Josh: I was just asking 97, has there been a helium shortage?

Tommy: Yeah, there's a, there's a helium crisis at the moment. It came from Warrnambool. Kate Mead started.

Josh: What does that actually mean? What do we use helium for?

Tommy: Uh, MRIs and balloons. MRIs and balloons. So some poor people just done parties and saving people. Yeah.

Josh: So if you're trying to get a radio job, maybe tone it down on the balloons. Yeah, well, I saw the penguins, they were saying, like, not the actual, the people who look after the penguins were saying bubbles. We should be promoting bubbles.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: The problem is it's just a little bit more hands-on because you actually have to be outside.

Kate: Isn't the saying, once you know better, do better? So I now know that balloons are bad and I wouldn't recommend them.

Josh: I still need to get a Cape Cod. We've all got things to fix.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, I love that storey of doing your own business because I think this creative landscape, it's hard to do it solo. Like, it's what I liked about working in the radio station was it's a job to show up to and then do the creative thing that I also love. What for you, what do you see 10 years down the track?

Kate: I get up, you know, people say that to me regularly now and I don't know what it looks like. I've written— I'm a huge believer in you write down what you know. I'd written this down. I had a photo in a station, you know, I'd visual, you know, I knew what I wanted. You know, I was really clear about that. I can't see, see as clearly forward 10 years like I would like to at the moment. And I wonder if that's because I literally am enjoying every day. I have to admit, I have days where I miss that dance festival, but I think it's because I miss— I was the boss of that, you know, like, no, that sounds really, you know, but, you know, I was— I got the buck stopped with me. I could make decisions. I could make them really fast. I didn't have to run it through 10 people to get that approval or whatever. I could change it tomorrow if I woke up.

Tommy: Well, I think it's great because also along with being a leader and the boss is that all the shit stuff, all the stuff ups end on you too.

Kate: So in that regard, you know, having all those people in front of me, I sleep a bit better because I'm not like worried about how I'm going to pay the bills.

Josh: But there's also a resilience in your ideas because you have to sell them in so hard every time.

Kate: You know, you talk about the pitching. I always think that the money and the stakeholder element are really, really important in everything that you're thinking about. I talk about this night at home in Peterborough. It was 11 o'clock at night. And I was sitting on the beanbag and just painting the picture.

Josh: Yeah, this is good.

Kate: Sitting on the beanbag, soaking my— in the jammies, the whole bit's going on. And I had $69,000 worth of bills in front of me.

Josh: I thought you were going to say 69,000 balloons. I got a deal.

Tommy: No! That's a lot of bills.

Kate: That's a lot of bills. So this is the year that we're going into the Melbourne Town Hall and I'm thinking, how am I going to I'm like, how am I going to pay? You know, like some people, this is their yearly income. This is like crazy town. And I, I, it had never happened before, but I had a vision of what it would look like. Packed out, dancers all on the floor of the Melbourne Town Hall dancing together. And I went to bed that night and I got up and I thought, righto, I need to get back on the phone. I need to, I need to sell one more ticket today. 2 more tickets, 3 more tickets and speak to the— is there anything that I haven't sold yet? You know, I'd pretty much sell a kidney at this stage. But yeah, so she was trying to buy Mr.

Tommy: 97s when she walked in.

Kate: Yeah, but you know what I mean? So every element of the Victorian Dance Festival was sold. I would absolutely have sold a kidney if I needed to.

Josh: How do you know what things are worth? Like if you were— because one of the things that we struggle with, we've been doing the show for 20 months or whatever, and we haven't made a cent on the podcast, haven't monetized at all. I think that's, there's partly an excuse on we're waiting for the right time, but the real answer is where we haven't asked the question.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: Uh, how do you know what something is worth?

Kate: So partnerships are always worth more than money. So it's always the business that you're doing the deal with. But, um, I literally wrote out a list and I realized, so if I was standing on the floor at the Melbourne Town Hall and I was looking at the stage, there's a whole banner from a video that's being filmed that could be running across that. Now that means that every photo from that angle and every video, you could have your business across there. And I'm going to charge you $2,500 for that because that photo, that footage, it's not just there for 12 months. Yeah, it's there for life. So that was sold. All the booths, you know, so we had all the different businesses, so we had 28 booths and I looked at other festivals, other events. I wouldn't just— there was only one other dance event in Australia at that time, but I would go to a lot of conferences and I would look and see how they would do it. And what— and I'd say, well, can I— I'm not, I'm not buying today, but would you mind sharing with me your prospectus? You know how your sponsorship packages and things like that. So I got really just kind of without sounding funny. Yeah, but good at identifying what we had was worthy of your investment.

Josh: How did you know what to spend money money on? So when you've got that, it's like—

Kate: I try not to spend it at all.

Josh: Yeah. Is that the part? Like, so say you think about using that banner analogy.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: You go to the printer and they're saying, now there's this, there's this type of material or that type of material. This one's a little bit more, but it's a little bit more primo.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: How do you make a decision on what is going to work?

Kate: I mean, you guys are amazing with your logo, but I remember wanting a media wall because people who had media walls were so professional. Yeah. And I couldn't afford the $1,000 for the media wall. So it was okay, $1,000 for the media wall, we've got to double it. So for $2,000, Tommy, you can have the Daily Talk Show beside VDF and every photo, official photo will be in front of that media wall. And then I got my media wall. I had to put up with your logo, but I got my media wall.

Josh: So every expense saying, okay, I need to sell enough to cover that.

Kate: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So if I wanted something, I had to cover it.

Josh: And when you go to sell a business like that or an operation, what are they buying and how do you package it up so it is something that you sell?

Kate: In the case of the dance festival, you were kind of buying into a community and you were buying into a feeling because it wasn't bricks and mortar. I wasn't saying, you know, I'm selling you this jumper or this cup or anything. It was your investment is into the community and your impact through that will be generational. So that was the kind of language that I talked about. So we wanted to create an environment that was all about community and not about competition, coming together to learn and to celebrate and lift each other up and understand that in dance it's not about being the best dancer in the room, it's about dancing. So, and having dance for your life. So by you investing in that, you you're buying into the dream with me.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: So that, you know, the part— those people that gave me money, I ended up, you know, I'd go to their kids' birthday party, you know, like the relationships were huge. I knew when their birthdays were on, I'd send them cards. If someone died in their family, we would send them flowers. And, and when I say we, we did have a team, but that was— I had to do that stuff because that little Timmy's birthday.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: Bloody annoying. Yeah. But it was those little things and handwriting. Dance studio owners right across Victoria. I mean, they started coming from every state in Australia. They started coming from America and New Zealand and the Philippines. And I would write a card that said, thank you for choosing to spend your money on me. So for you, you might have had to— if you were the parent, you know, I used to stand at the door when they'd open the doors to the Victorian Dance Festival, stand there. So you had to walk past me on the way through. So I could say thank you. Like, thank you, Mum, for working 12 hours to buy that one ticket for your daughter to be here today. Thank you. You had to pack shelves or do whatever you had to do for them to come. So that was— yeah, that's how I treated it. Like, so the moment the doors would open, you'd be thinking, I hope there's someone out there. And that Melbourne Town Hall day, the people wrapped around right around the corner at Swanston Street, and it was just, you know, crazy.

Josh: So do you then, are you then really protective of that? So finding someone to buy it, were there a lot of sort of rules around if you're going to do this, I want to make sure that X, Y, and Z.

Kate: I mean, you can't kind of do that. You just have to kind of hope. And they had their first event this year and, you know, thousands of people still turned up and they still use that language, community, not competition. And, you know, but they're putting their spin on it. You know, it's, you know, targeted differently and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, that's I have to walk away.

Josh: Was it hard to walk away?

Kate: I didn't realize, and I don't think people talk about it, but when you sell a business, if you've built it from scratch, you grieve, like literally grieve for it because you put your heart and soul into it and all of a sudden someone's running off and doing something else with it. But yeah, and you've been used to running at a pace, you know, of every minute of every hour thinking about is there another way to get more people to come or How am I going to pay that bill? Or is that contract signed? Or is that instructor flying in at the right time? You know, there's all these, you know, your project management on overdrive for, you know, every hour of every minute of every day.

Tommy: How different is building a business to building your personal brand, which is how, what you're paid to do now for radio? It's like they're employing Kate Manning.

Kate: Yeah, yeah. It's, I've always said the only time you'll ever see me really arc up is if I think my name is in jeopardy, like I always like to think, you know, your name is everything.

Tommy: That's the only thing that's real good. Freddie, Freddie, punch up.

Kate: But it's the only thing that you've got at the end of the day is your name, you know. So hopefully you always think that anyone that you've worked with, you'll— they'll walk away and go, oh, you know, they might not say I'm cruisy, but they might go, she was fun and she said yes and she had energy. And yeah, I would definitely recommend working with her again. So they're the things.

Tommy: Well, that's branding, what people say about you.

Kate: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So and then living it every day.

Tommy: So the business brand versus personal brand, or do you see them as I'm bringing Kate May personal brand and embodying that within?

Kate: You know, when I talked about the grief of selling a business and I keep pointing to the thing because you've got to remember things, but I do remember Women of Influence, which I want to go through. Oh yeah, okay. But it, um, You know, I attached myself to the Victorian Dance Festival. I thought who I was, was, is the founder of the Victorian Dance Festival. Hi, I'm Kate Mead. I'm the founder of the Victorian Dance Festival. You know, like, that's who I was, but that's not who I am. And dance is not who I am. You know, I had to separate it. Yeah. And I didn't realise at the time that I had wrapped up so much of who I was and what I was about in that festival.

Josh: Is there a way to like— So by cutting that off, I guess the one way of doing it is just wrapping yourself up into a completely other brand, which has the risk again of doing the exact same thing.

Tommy: Yeah.

Kate: So except that I like to think I'm smarter this time.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so how do you, how do you detach? We had Shanna Kennedy on who talks about you're not your job.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: Who are you when you're not your job?

Kate: I'm a mum. Yeah, just a mum with 3 kids. Yeah, that's it.

Josh: And do you think that it's— what does that mean from a, from a, your work and brand and all that sort of thing? Does that, like, how does that come through?

Kate: And so I, I think I like to think if you were flicking over or flicking through the social media, you're seeing a gamut of, you know, like, what's she about? Or what, you know, like one minute she's on the beach and the next minute she's in New York, the next minute she's in the radio station, like, I can't keep up with that woman. And I'm okay with that because that's generally kind of what my life looks like.

Tommy: Yeah.

Kate: So, yeah, so there is— I know that we're supposed to be separate, you know, and we should be, you know, if you're not on air, you know, who you're supposed to be. And I can look you in the eye and say, oh, I am a mess of everything mixed in together, you know. And I just think— and then you just have to keep evolving through it.

Josh: Well, I guess like the 'you are not your job' is slightly different when it comes to talent because you sort of are like, you are your personality, you are bringing yourself every single Yeah.

Kate: So the first year of, you know, regional radio, I could go to the supermarket in my Ugg boots. I can't do that. Yeah, I see.

Josh: So what were you going to say?

Kate: I only did it once.

Tommy: And you got spotted first time you did it?

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. So just don't do it.

Josh: What did they say? Do you get— do they call the radio show or what? Like, it just becomes—

Kate: No, they kind of look at you funny. Yeah.

Josh: And then maybe they didn't know you from Adam.

Kate: You know, in another aisle, and then they go, is that you on the radio?

Josh: So funny.

Kate: Oh, I gotta get out of here. I'm hyperventilating.

Josh: So with the radio stuff, you have to ask, you know, get permission a lot with Women of Influence, your podcast. I know that's through ACE still, but do you get a lot of the freedoms of that sort of having your own business, being able to build something yourself?

Kate: Yes and no. Yeah, it's, um, so the idea of the Women of Influence podcast came about because of literally the dance festival. The Australian Financial Review run an award system called the 100 Women of Influence, and I got listed on the 100, which is still crazy to even think about it. But I got up to Sydney and I opened up the programme and inside it were 100 women, and I thought, Some of them we know, you know, Tracy Spicer was in there and there were some others in there. And I thought, but there was a woman who'd created a breast shield and another woman that was, you know, created a brand. Another was curing cancer. And I thought, how do we not know these stories? Someone needs to tell these stories. And I started speaking actually to Craig Bruce about it, and I spoke to Jay Mueller about it. And I thought, this is a podcast. This is telling not just famous people's stories. This is about telling anybody's stories, and instead of telling everyone's stories, let's niche it in and let's just own them, own women, you know, like let's just really focus in on women's storeys and, you know, celebrate what they've been doing. So unknown or known, it doesn't matter. And yeah, pitched it to Ace Radio because I wanted to use their equipment for free.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's always great.

Kate: And, you know, I was pretty confident I was going to get a yes for that. And then they said, can you just hold a little bit? And I'd kind of had a, you know, I'd kind of been pitching it to some other people and they'd been saying, yeah, well, we could do an ad share with it, you know, if you put it on our platform type thing. And I kept kind of hesitating. But yeah, the radio, the ACE Radio team went over to Radio Days and come back from that. And it was all about podcasting and the change in the audio world. And they'd said, yep, we're going to let you do this, you know, and you can do it on your own or you can do it under ACE. And I reckon it took me a month month because of this very fear, you know, they could still shut down that at any time. Do you know what I mean? If they wanted to, that's, you know, that's the risk that I decided to go with. But I want the reward.

Josh: What's the— so there's the risk. What's the bit? So you get the equipment.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: What's the other thing?

Kate: You know, because they, you know, we're talking about a radio company. So you guys have skills that I don't. So in terms of what a radio company has, I mean, they've got a whole digital team. So for me, if I wanted to create the online branding and stuff that I've got now, like I've had, I've been able to be down to the nitpick of I don't like that colour green, you know, like I don't like that. I need to build a media kit here that what's our font that runs through all of it? I need to know, you know, we need to have the photos. I would have spent $20,000 just through if I was a client going out to a company to do this for me, you know, that's, you know, and I need the website up and done and they say, Yes. Okay, no worries. I put it in and I wouldn't have had the money then to have done that on my own. So, you know, that support is incredible. So that's the risk I run though.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: You know, they could still shut it down at any time. So I'm like, how many numbers did I get today?

Josh: Is it— does it feel like that? Is the analytics— are they taking note?

Kate: I think— oh, definitely, definitely taking note. But I also think it's the first, you know, they are a radio predominant, you know, they're a radio business. So they're dipping their toe in the water. And I always, you know, if a chance comes up and you get to talk about, talk to them about it, I'll say to the managers, you know, that's great that we're dipping a toe in, but you realise in, say, 3 years' time from now, 4 years' time, you'll only have one.

Josh: Which is what you do, right?

Kate: Like, that's the thing. And I keep going because I keep saying, you know, like, I'm on breakfast radio, so I'm a radio nerd. I love, you know, the old-fashioned wireless. You know, but I listen to audio on demand based on the topic and based on what I want to hear. And I do that with Netflix and I do that. I don't have Foxtel anymore and all those types of things are coming into play now. So, you know, maybe, you know, maybe we need to start having those conversations. So at the moment, while there's a little bit of pressure, like, oh, Kate, you didn't get many listening to that one. Yeah, I know. I'll share it tomorrow.

Josh: It's early, but it's It's early days as well. So I feel like you need to, you've got to be in it. Like, what's the alternative?

Kate: That was the thing. And, you know, you know, it's just such a new thing and learning as we go. I'd actually, even the art of interviewing someone, I had interviewed 18 women, so 18 hours worth of interviewing before I released the first one. And now I listen back to the 18 and I can't release one of them. I'm having to redo them now. You actually are doing it. I have to redo them because I sound like, um, you just, you just don't listen to them.

Josh: That's what we do, we just send it out into the world.

Kate: It's just the worst.

Tommy: So, so did you, was there a level of confidence going in that then you do it and you go, okay, the confidence to get it across the line wasn't in line with my skill?

Kate: Yeah, yeah. So I used to say, I think the concept of the Women of Influence influence podcast is good, right? So I feel like I'm onto something. If I had pitched this somewhere else and I'd said, and I think we might get a superstar to host it, chances are this thing would probably sit at a number, you know, one, you know, like you put a celebrity in, I'm going to host this podcast and we're just going to be about women. That would have done it. So I'm actually the weak link in it. But that's the thing.

Josh: So that's the thing. Like, that's like us.

Tommy: Oh, we're the weak link.

Josh: We're the weak link. Well, we are, right? We've got, we came into this with no audience.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: And so we're building completely from scratch.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: But there's a beauty in the weak link because the thing is everything that you do, like I've said it to you before on DMs, like your branding and the stuff, like it looks like a number one show.

Kate: Yeah. And that was, you know, one of the first comments was I laid it out on the table, you know, and I had a couple of consultants in and I was like, can I let you look at this? And they said, Kate, This looks amazing. You better live up to this. And then I was like, I'm going to be sick because I thought, you know, I'm not there yet. Like, I'm 3 years into this radio career or, you know, I've just got to get good quick. And the only way that you get better is by doing what?

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Doing it.

Kate: Doing it. So I can hear the interviewing technique getting better. But I also— I mean, we just 3 weeks ago opened up a Facebook group and there's about 2,000 people in there.

Tommy: Oh, amazing.

Kate: It's crazy. And I go, I had to bring them in on the journey with me. So they're going to grow as I grow, you know, and they tell me who they want to hear and give me feedback and what was your takeaway and all that type of stuff. So I'm growing in front of them and they're kind of coming with me. Like, I can't almost—

Josh: So why record, re-record any others? Like, I feel like, oh, because we move forward, you know? Like, yeah, but I mean, but there is, there is something in the in that process, in like, we all start from like, you go to any podcast, like on the weekend I went back to Joe Rogan's first 15 podcasts and just revelled in how shit they were, right? And just like, oh, this is so good. I can't even hear what he's saying. And but there is, but I think that there is something in that, like you have to put like any putting out But it's, yeah, it's interesting. The thoughts on quality and perfectionism.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: How has that played through on your journey?

Kate: So I have trouble with it because I want it to be as spot on. Yeah. So the gap of where I'm at and where I want it to be, it's what it is, you know. So I've got to just, I've got to push those feelings really deep down because otherwise you wouldn't do, you wouldn't run a business, you wouldn't put a podcast out if you couldn't control that feeling of inadequacy and not being good enough. So you've got to I kind of ignore it.

Josh: So you need to put it out though. I wonder if the thing is like, are you, do you feel like you were getting the lessons by recording, being like, ah, it's not up to standard and then redoing it?

Kate: I kind of, when I described those first 18, I feel like I was doing my apprenticeship or the training ground before it went up. Yeah, I know what you're saying. And some of them I go, oh, we should do that. But even the lesson of originally, so we are based in regional Victoria. I can come down to Melbourne sometimes and 3AW let me record from their studio, which is amazing, right? So, um, yeah, and do that. But so the bulk of the interviews has to be done by phone. Now I was listening back to the podcast, like the practise ones, and we'd put them together. They weren't practise ones, but we put them together like they were going to be released. And I was saying, you know, the one thing that's letting us down is the audio quality, because if you're a podcaster is there nothing better when it's crystal clear and crisp and it sounds professional? So then we've found, you know, we did some more research and we found out, well, Skype is the next, the closest thing that you're going to get to a nice clear sound other than face-to-face. So yeah, so all of those other ones are done via phone and the other, you know, these ones now are moving forward via Skype. So yeah, I don't know. I keep wondering, should, could I montage them? And I just go, no, I'll just redo it. I'll just redo it. I'll just be there to until, you know, 3 AM every day.

Josh: What did you say to the guests that you recorded? Was the expectation that, hey, this is a trial, they might not go?

Kate: No, no, it was, yeah, talk about belief in the product. You know, like, we are launching a podcast that's going to change the way that women talk about women's achievements. And I think you are a woman of influence. And would you join me on this journey?

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: So that's what it was about. So I do have to go back and do those those 18. But, um, yeah, so I haven't— yeah, just, it's just moving forward.

Tommy: When do you know when something's of the right time to approach it? Because you could look retrospectively and say, oh, we'll do an 18. It's probably not the right time. Or is it?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What's your perspective on the right time?

Kate: Well, what happened was I, I'd written out the list of women that I would love to speak to, so I had my, you know, top 50 or whatever, and they include people like Michelle Obama and, you know, just in your eyes, who are not Australian, but that's not the point. But one of them was Lana Wilkinson, and I'd recorded her via the phone. It was one of the early ones, and the Logies were happening, and she's a stylist, and she was dressing 6 women at the Logies, and I was being sent up to the Logies to report for the morning rush. So I just said to the ace team, we've got to release this. She's our number one. One, and we're going to piggyback all our Instagram on her and load hashtag Logies and stylists and dresses and da da da. So our first response, or first, um, podcast had a really surprising number, and then we thought that we would have all those types of numbers moving forward. It doesn't look like that. So it was, um, I go, oh, it was a stroke of genius, but I don't know if it really was or not, but it just felt like the timing was right to launch it. But I remember, I reckon I sent some messages saying, this is the worst feeling. It was the worst the night before knowing that people were going to get a notification to say that there's an episode there.

Josh: Do you think launches are overrated?

Kate: They're just horrific.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, they're exciting.

Kate: They're so exciting.

Josh: It's like it's the lowest because I think about like back to like we talk about our numbers and how little we had in the first 6 months or whatever. And then you think about like, okay, how much pain, like the launch, the episode 1 will potentially have the lowest amount of like the way that I guess we viewed it is it's like it's probably going to be our shittest episode. We just got to get it through 2, 3. And so there's a beauty in when I did a podcast called Josh Speaking, I had all of the like everyone was an amazing guest straight up. Where I guess with the Daily Talk Show, we did 50 episodes before we had a guest, 20 episodes before we told anyone. I wonder if like the launch of, because I feel like I do the same thing, which is have the bet. I need the usernames, I need the website, I need to have everything dialled in so that day one it is that world's best show.

Kate: Well, that was the challenge. I mean, our marketing looks so spot on. So my fear then was, so they listen to the first episode and they go, what the— that's not what we were buying into. Like, we were buying into, you know. So that's why it was really important just to connect, just keep connecting at a fundamental level. So the strategy around the podcast for me is not necessarily— and it's been interesting even having sometimes the influencers on, because you think, oh, we'll get an influencer on and they'll share it, and then they don't share it. And then think, what did I even talk to you for?

Tommy: You know, we need that approach.

Kate: So, but you, um, the strategy around it was, so if I interview you in your community, um, I tell your storey and what you've done. It doesn't have to be about winning awards, it's what you— the impact that you've had or your, um, challenges and how you got through them. And you might live in a small town, um, but you will share it and be proud of what you are, then a woman of influence. And then you share it with your family and friends who then listen to it and then it pods up. And then I will always say to you, who's inspired you? Who's helped you shape who you are? Who do you think I should talk to? And so it then leapfrogs on to the next person and then bubbles out from here and then it goes over here. So that's kind of the strategy around building the community that it is, you know. So if I interview you, you tell me, tell, you know, I've been on the podcast or whatever. And then, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's that network, network effect, which works well. Yeah, very probably Seth Godin stuff, which, you know, you guys are huge fans of too. But yeah, I just think, yeah, it's just early days. And I think the main frustration is there's so many storeys out there. I'm not a— yeah, I just want to hear the stories. Yeah, that's all it is. So if I'm happy, um, if people are happy for me to bumble through a bit as it is growing and allow me to be curious and allow me to celebrate great other people, it'll just keep ticking over, you know. And 3 years down the track— so 3 years down the track, I say it'll be a national brand. And in 5 years' time, we should see it, you know, we should see it popping around all over the place.

Josh: Absolutely.

Tommy: So you do have a 10-year plan. You've got that 10-year plan.

Kate: No, I just kind of say, because it's not going to happen, like, it's not going to happen in 10 episodes. Like, I remember saying to the managers, right, in 10 episodes, we're going to have a sit-down meeting and, you know, strategize this thing out. And then I was like, 10 episodes coming on, I was like, let's not get together yet.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. It's been a long time. Well, we're celebrating 500 episodes next month and it's—

Kate: we are literally— Do you need balloons?

Tommy: 500 of them. But we are thinking—

Josh: Yeah. Oh, that would be great. We should do something.

Kate: Oh, you can't say it. Yeah.

Josh: No, we can. I just think the balloon thing, we need to move on from using balloons, guys, if anything.

Tommy: But no, it could be some bad branding for them.

Josh: We'll talk about perfect days. And both Tommy and I, when we're talking about our perfect day, it was around like being near water and being able to like, you know, get up early in the morning and experience nature. Being where you live, is that your everyday? Like, have you got—

Kate: I saw that they won like the most livable city in the world or whatever.

Josh: Yeah. So what is— are you living your perfect day now? Is it just like, you know, amazing coastal lifestyle or what is it?

Kate: No, it's windy as all hell.

Tommy: It's known for being windy, isn't it?

Kate: Oh, it's a windy thing.

Josh: So you think the award's a bit bullshit?

Kate: Oh no, no.

Tommy: Look, you should have spearheaded the campaign. I can imagine you getting up in front of the line.

Kate: Come live in Moorabbin. No, but I mean, it was marked on house prices, you know, the medium house price is $340,000. It's got the whales. It's got good road commute traffic. I rang you because I couldn't believe I was running late here and I'm going, I'm I'm 6 K's away. It says it's going to take me 20 minutes.

Josh: Are you kidding? We're not.

Tommy: Yeah.

Kate: So all of life is easier and slower and all those types of things. So yeah, come to Woonabul and retire.

Josh: So do you think, would you be there long-term when you think about your vision as things are, the future of work is remote. I've got the dream of one day, I went to Stanley in Tasmania once and I remember it being really nice. Which people have then emailed us about it saying that I've got a warped perception of what it was.

Tommy: It looks nice if you look at photos of it.

Josh: Yeah, but the idea of like having like an ISDN line or whatever the new tech is and just being able to sit in the booth and doing your thing.

Kate: So VDF was built, I was living in Peterborough on the Great Ocean Road. So Peterborough is about 15 minutes from the Twelve Apostles, right? So I would literally put my kids on a bus at 8:30 and go for a walk for 5Ks along the coast, like the greater coast, like not just any old coast, and then come back. And by 10 o'clock I'd be, you know, on the computer and Skyping and phone calling. I think the whole thing, the event that was happening in Melbourne or in another regional town 2.5, 3 hours away from me was being built, you know, remotely from, from Peterborough. And I just go, You know, we're getting better at it, but we could still be getting a lot better at allowing— like, I would— I— my graphic designer was based— one was up in Sydney and one was in Melbourne, and they're like, oh, don't you need to have all your team here? Nah, I just want the best person. I want to work with the best person. Yeah, that's what it's always, you know, identify who the best person is. And okay, so they need to work from a shed in Stanley. Cool.

Tommy: Yeah, as long as they send their work in, you know, that will be the reality. A shed is what you have.

Josh: A really nice, beautiful country.

Tommy: I think a lot of people's mindset is, no, I need to be in the hustle and bustle.

Josh: New York City.

Tommy: Yeah, New York, Sydney.

Kate: Yeah, well, I suppose the opportunities probably are here, but you know, you do the best with what you've got.

Josh: I mean, you're proof that like some of those—

Kate: But aren't I a little crazy?

Josh: Yeah, but I think that, I think, isn't that what you need to be? You need to be a little bit crazy.

Kate: Yeah, yeah. Look, I think I don't know, I think I said really early, maybe before even when I was walking in, the work that I do, I would approach it whether I was living in regional Victoria or regional Queensland or metro Melbourne, heart of Sydney, I would work the same standards. So I mean, travel is only a barrier, you know, that you've got to push through in some capacity, like make it work at all costs. Boss. That's what it was, you know, just make it work, find a way to make it work. And sometimes that means moving, and sometimes it's okay, well, I can't move, so what's the best thing I can do? So, but yeah, you never say never, right?

Tommy: What's a bit of a Kate Maid checklist of, uh, before you send something off to somebody to ask for something, whether it be a job—

Josh: this is more for us, we need this—

Tommy: whether it be a pitch, whether it be for a business idea or opportunity? Yeah.

Kate: Yeah. So of sending that first email.

Tommy: Yeah. So I mean, it just might be one interaction or it might be a pitch that you put together. What are some sort of checklists you go through to make sure that this is right? Because some people might not feel like it's not the right time, but then when is the right time to send it?

Kate: Yeah. So you've got to send it. You've got to send it within that hour before doubt kicks in or for whatever reason someone says no. You've got to go quick. For the radio show or for VDF or for now Women of Influence, I've got one. I have a prospectus that's already made up, which tells you.

Josh: What does a prospectus mean?

Kate: Prospectus.

Tommy: A pitch doc?

Kate: Yeah, like a, yeah.

Tommy: How did you say it?

Josh: I said prospectus and then you said pitch doc.

Kate: Sponsor. You know your sponsorship document?

Josh: Yeah, what's the actual word? We do a word of the day sometimes. What is the definition of the word prospectus?

Tommy: 97?

Kate: Prospectus?

Josh: Prospectus, thank you.

Tommy: A printed booklet advertising a school or university to potential to potential parents or students.

Josh: Okay.

Kate: So it's similar to that.

Tommy: Or giving details of an offer that could benefit investors.

Josh: There we go.

Kate: So that is my most prized document that I will spend hours on that. And so your branding on the front, insight, that first thing, what it's about.

Josh: Do you have like a Google Doc open or something? Like are you writing stuff out first?

Kate: No, it's done once. You know, so I make a size one fits all, you know, type kind of template. All the information or any stats that I think are really important. So I leave off anything that doesn't paint us in a great light. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't matter how many people we've got listening. This is the greatest thing that you've ever seen. Yeah. And then options for them to get involved in type things. So I like to give them 3 options, you know, like this would be your gold standard or whatever it might be. And keep using that word partnership. And then the very back page is any images or great whatevers. And then a— So like 3 pages, how many pages, do you think? Well, it depends. The Victorian Dance Festival got to a point because there were that many different things that you could buy because I was literally selling everything. I think it was about 7 pages long and I'm happy to share that document with you. But I like to think—

Josh: We should start our own dance festival. We're not creative enough to manoeuvre it in any way. But we will have a photo wall.

Tommy: GDF, Gronkh Dance Festival.

Kate: That I would go to. But at the very back page, I always say the most important part is I say, you know, thanks for taking a look at it. Here's the best thing. You're working with me. You're going to work with me. You're not going to work with 10 other people. You're going to work with me directly. And we can adapt any one of these packages or these ideas to suit your outcomes, your objectives, and how we're going to make it work. So the world's our oyster. So I just— yeah, that's how we would do that. So that's the final thing I leave them with, like, oh, if I've got your attention a little bit, it, but it's not all quite fitting. We're not rigid, we're not a rigid box here. Let's create something that is beneficial for the both of us. And then so yeah, in that email I'm saying, hey, my name's Kate, you know, lovely to meet you at— so that's why going to events and being places and meeting as many people as I can is great. And then I always follow up, always follow up with an email that just says, hey, you know, like, I just, you know, we're chatting about whatever we were talking about, you know, here's some stuff, thank you for your consideration. Yeah. And then follow back up the week later.

Josh: You put it in like a calendar or something? How do you remember what you've got to do?

Kate: I don't know. I don't. I just do. I walk around. I'm about up to about 4 notebooks at the moment. And I need them all because you're going to flick back through. But yeah, no, it just pops into your head. You know, I should follow up with Josh and see if he wants to partner on this thing that we're doing. Or yeah.

Josh: And so what has Ace Radio taken from your— I guess there's probably salespeople that are less like competent in sales than what you are. Like, I think you're a great salesperson.

Kate: Well, I don't do any sales at Ace.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: So I have I have to really, yeah, that's not my, yeah, job to do that.

Josh: So I've got to, but almost, but the thing is direct sales, it's not even, but the thing is you coming up with your idea, it is sales because you're already thinking about it should be going here, here, and here, and it's connected with that.

Kate: And so then do you, so I hand over, then we have a national sales director or manager, and we have a general local sales manager, right? So one will handle national brands and the other will handle local businesses across all the markets. And so they will decide, you know, amongst themselves, okay, well, Kate's got this idea. Is it going to work? Mm, don't know. Yes or no. Is it something we should pitch to a KFC or a, you know, National, or is it something that we'll sell locally? Yeah. So, and that was just about, you know, that first year where I said that I had all these gaps of knowledge. I didn't understand how the radio business sold advertising, so I had to learn that. So that when I could get, you know, come up with an idea, yeah, we could apply it. But yeah, I don't have to go out and, you know, try and sell it like, you know, to get money for it. But I had to sell it to Trafalgar or to, you know, the MCG.

Josh: So the MCG example.

Kate: Yeah.

Josh: So if you've got— so when are you bringing in the sales manager to take over that, like those types of relationships?

Kate: You know that, you know that saying about asking for permission after? Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Kate: So Oh gosh. But yeah, I think I just— I'm having that moment where you go, should I even be saying that? But it's come up with everything, get it all out there, and then, you know, deal with those little parts as they come.

Josh: Well, I think that's the entrepreneurial bit, right? Yeah. But you need to know that only works if you have the talent and skills to be able to back it up, right? You can be really You can do that.

Kate: And if you can't then help and connect the dots and make it happen, I guess the thing with the MCG stuff is that I could have had this great wishy-washy idea, but I knew in order for— I need all my— so I have 9 general managers, right? 9 managers that I have to have on board with an idea. And some you'll win over straight away and others will— won't. But if I pitch an idea we're going to play backyard cricket on the MCG. And they go, oh yeah, good idea. It's not going to make us any money. And then I go, and here's your sales strategy. I mean, how can you say no?

Tommy: It's doing the work for them.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it stacking the odds?

Josh: So it, you know, there's a lot of stacking if you've got 9 people that you have to.

Tommy: A lot of stacks on. Yeah.

Josh: And so do you, is it like a prioritisation of like, okay, if I get get these three, it's like if you get John on board, you know that you're gonna be able to—

Kate: John is number one, has to be on board. If I haven't got John, it's out. Yeah. Yeah. So I have to win him over first. Yeah. And then content director. Yeah. So, and then it's, um, monetary and what is it logistically, how's it going to work? Like, are we going to have to all stay in Melbourne? How much is that going to cost? Oh, don't worry, we're going to try and build a partnership with someone. Or, you know, how, you know, like, have you thought about all that? So you have to have an answer for every question before they're going to come at you. And that is something that had to be learned over time.

Tommy: For a creative person that's, you know, is really hell-bent on ideas, do you think the best ideas actually win or it's a combination of the sell, you know, the pitch, also the idea?

Kate: Do you know, I was thinking about that and I thought it's just more about volume, isn't it, in radio and anything entrepreneur. Isn't it volume of ideas and not getting so hung up on, you know, when they say no, instead of being like, oh, well, Tommy, I'm never going to speak to you again. Okay, cool. You know, move on.

Josh: Next idea. You need to have enough balls in it. I know that with clients. If you have, if you only do one pitch, you're going to feel it. But if you've got like 50 pitches that have gone out to people, you don't have time to get upset because you've got heaps of other people.

Tommy: Your balls reference was to the balls in the air. The way you said it sounded like you need enough balls.

Kate: Oh, really?

Josh: Because I've done the juggling analogy a lot. You need to have enough balls of juggling, not just balls.

Tommy: But it helps.

Kate: I'm not offended.

Tommy: I mean, okay, you've got balls. Like, I think that's where people— and I asked you about the confidence thing— is like, how some people feel, I've got no confidence, which is why I won't send something or do something.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you need confidence to do this stuff?

Kate: I You know, and that's the thing, that's about— isn't all of this, or what you put out to the world, or what you put out on social media, that very best version of yourself? Like, Kate on her own, sitting on the couch with the 3 kids in her jammies, is thinking, how many people at work did I upset today? You know, like, did I, did I push them too hard? Or because I care about the 1%, or I'm happy to stay back work for 12 hours, you know, to do that extra stuff. That doesn't mean that your work ethic's the same as that. So I hope I didn't upset you, and, you know, all those types of things. And in moments of, do I want to go ahead with that idea, you just got to go with it, you know. Like, you've got to push— for me, I just have to push any self-doubt right down. But very home Kate is like, oh God, what am I doing?

Tommy: You know, like, feel it and do it anyway.

Kate: Yeah, you've got to feel it because otherwise, is it even— isn't that part of the adrenaline rush of it all? Yeah, because this isn't going to work. I'm not even going to say yes to this.

Josh: I mean, it's so inspiring. I feel like it's a massive kick up the ass to us where it's like you can create so many storeys and make a vision that's small, but you're someone that's expanded out that, right? There's heaps of people. We've got a bunch of people who listen who are in regional markets who, you know, I'm sure have the conversations with themselves where the CD won't let me do this or I can't do that, or we have to do local. I think you're a great example of someone who's like expansive and thinking about just have it, make it happen.

Kate: I can't come up with a better analogy than this, and I'm sorry, but I go, I like to think of 11. Aim for 11, right? Aim for 11.

Josh: The spinal tap.

Kate: Aim for number 11. And then if you land on a 7, it's pretty good.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: You know, it's not like you failed. You landed on a great version of the idea. And if you're not so hell— you know, any idea that you put through, the very first idea is not where it finishes. The first idea, you know, the landing idea is a form of, you know, where it wraps up. But yeah, aim for 11, I say. Yeah. Finish at 7 and everyone's happy.

Josh: I like it.

Kate: I love it. It's kind of allowing for expectations.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: Well, I mean, it's like if you don't, if you don't if you don't aim it, you're definitely not going to get there.

Kate: Well, how—

Tommy: like, yeah, it's what you do with money. You're going for a budget, it's like put the budget really high because if you just get half of that, yeah, if you only aimed at half of that, yeah, yeah. And I think there is like a limiting belief we put on ourselves in these things we go for.

Kate: If you've—

Josh: you get transfixed on a number, yeah, or, you know, what can be really easy, like say talking about advertising on say this podcast it'd be easy for us to really lowball it so it's an absolute no-brainer. But then we haven't— but if we actually spend some time in, right, what's the value, how can we package it in a better way?

Kate: And the partnership, like, potentially— I mean, you go to bed with somebody, you were going to bed with that person. If it's a 3-month deal and you don't live up, you know, they turn out to be nightmares or high maintenance or hard work, and you think, oh, was it even worth the money?

Josh: No.

Kate: No, you're not. Don't go there.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. You're talking about marriage, right? I've been in a 3-year deal at the moment. It's going good. Sleeps well. One last thing.

Josh: Sleeps well.

Tommy: The free thing. So doing shit for free and doing stuff for money, doing stuff for free, I've found, ah, there's a level of confidence because you're not paying and I'm going to impress. And so then you'll be impressed, but then you're like, that can't last forever. And you do that in the early stage of your career.

Josh: Here.

Kate: Yeah.

Tommy: And then you've got the other side where you're like, now I need to start charging and making big promises.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm— I play somewhere in the middle. So in the dance world, yep, I can charge. In the radio— what do we call this world?

Tommy: This is so random.

Kate: This other land. Yeah. In this other land that I'm playing around in at the moment, I am— I will say yes to every opportunity that's in front of me. Yeah. I want to be the person that's ready to, you know, absolutely.

Tommy: I mean, so when's the switch though? When do you go, uh, yes? So for instance, VDF, when did you go, okay, now it's time to charge?

Kate: Because I, yeah, well, say in the dance industry, yeah, I just didn't have to do it now if it didn't, if I didn't like the event or the message or the whatever. But I would still say no to a free event if I wasn't on board with what they were doing anyway, you know.

Josh: It's all a value exchange. And so once you've built up the value, I guess Makes a lot of sense.

Kate: I think if you're building anything, you've just got to be everywhere. Be everywhere until you need to rest.

Josh: Yeah.

Kate: You know, so is that dead?

Tommy: You're talking about resting is dying?

Kate: Well, the line, I suppose, at my house is when my husband taps me on the shoulder and says, hello, you coming home? Yeah, yeah, home in 5.

Josh: You live close.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Thank you so much, Kate. I love following you on Instagram and seeing all the stuff because it's even better hearing you talk about it, all of those things, because as you said, you can— there's that highlights real stuff to the world that we're all in now. But there is so much tactic and stuff. And I think from today, definitely, I think we'll be putting all of those things. We'll definitely get a PDF together finally.

Kate: I'll send you through a template and you can just take my logo out and pop yours in and go from there.

Tommy: Little banner down here. It's 2.5 grams.

Kate: Yeah, that's exactly everything. You know, you're halfway there. You can have a little logo in here.

Tommy: And Ben Fordham is not paying with his beer mug.

Kate: That's exactly what I thought when you placed it there at the beginning. He's paying. But back at you guys, because I go, you know, it's a 10-year plan. It's a commitment. It's something special. And I think by the time the world catches up to this, you guys are going to be like, give me the money.

Josh: Well, it's going to be so fun. Like, imagine Women of Influence the Daily Talk Show, like what that's going to look like.

Kate: Do you think it looks like versions of Netflix? Yeah, well, we're all going to be on Netflix shows.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I think it's a great idea. I think it'd be— see, yeah, I was thinking Stan.

Josh: I actually found out Stan's like connected with Channel 9. It's all our mates at Channel 9 when we make Stan jokes. Like, they might— Stan might have cash to spend.

Tommy: I'm just like, serious, I'll go Stan.

Kate: Hey, I know someone that works at Stan.

Josh: Oh yeah, see, so Stan's fucking great. I've got no issues with Stan.

Kate: Netflix Stan, if there's anyone picking at this point.

Josh: This is the problem with with what we do with podcast, we don't hold back. I guess within radio, you gotta be thinking, I remember I did a tweet when I was on Fifi and Jules about a restaurant and I was like, ah, I hate this restaurant in Port Melbourne. And then Kerry Jones, who was the executive producer, said, Josh, you gotta take that down 'cause they're a client. You had any clients?

Kate: I tried to ring my CEO before I came here today 'cause I thought, I don't really know what you wanna, I don't really know where you wanna go. So I just wanna make sure anyway, he didn't take the call and I thought, well, yeah, we should be fine.

Tommy: Too bad.

Josh: So sorry.

Kate: Well, I sent a text message. I tried to call.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kate: We are where we are.

Josh: Is that a disclaimer?

Tommy: Yeah, I like it.

Josh: Anyway, it's the Daily Talk Show. Women of Influence is the podcast. Definitely cheque that out. And you're just— is it Kate Meade on Instagram? Yeah, yeah. Check her out there too. It's the Daily Talk Show. We'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.