Ben Fordham 🍕 That's Crazy

Ben: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 461.

Tommy: This is not your average Fat Friday. We got Ben Fordham here.

Ben: Hey boys.

Tommy: Where are we, mate?

Ben: We're at Giovanni's Pizza in the suburb of Cammeray in Sydney. I work here on Friday nights, and today is obviously Friday lunchtime, but we're not usually open at lunchtime. But for The Daily Talk Show, we're open for business, so I'm gonna give you some great pizzas, some of my favourite pizzas here. And then down the road is a great joint called Maggio's Bakery, so they're going to do the desserts.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ben: And Maggio's Cafe is going to do the thick shakes.

Tommy: Oh, amazing.

Ben: So pizza, thick shakes, and some sweet, sweet desserts.

Tommy: Straight to bed in a coma.

Ben: Oh, I've got a radio show this afternoon.

Tommy: What time have you been up since this morning?

Ben: Uh, 3:50. The alarm went off this morning, so I've been doing a bit of Today Show filling in at the moment. And with Richard Wilkins, who of course has been a guest on the Daily Talk Show. I don't know whether he's already been on or he's coming on.

Tommy: Yeah, he's already been on.

Ben: I'm just getting the timing right.

Tommy: Yeah, timing is right.

Josh: It's on Monday. How did you end up working here?

Ben: When I moved into this suburb, I got to know the boys who run the café. We're called Maggio's. Really got along with them really well. And then they said, "We're opening a bakery." And I said, "Perfect." So they opened the bakery. And then I started saying, "You should open a pizza joint." And I only mentioned it maybe 16 times. And then eventually they go, "All right, we're doing it." And this used to be called Livio's Pizza. Livio was this cranky old bastard who ran this pizza shop years ago. And he was famous for— you'll see on the board there, he's got ravioli, spaghetti, tortellini. If anyone walked in and ordered any of the pasta, he'd go, "No, no, no, no pasta, pizza." He was such a tight-ass, he wouldn't change the sign and he wouldn't employ anyone to make the pasta. And he'd only do the pizza and he'd stand outside smoking cigarettes the whole time. And then he'd kind of begrudgingly walk in and make your pizza. He was a real character. He's now sadly RIP. Yeah. So this site came up, the boys said, righto, we're going to do it. We're going to open the pizza shop. And then they agreed to have a taste test night in here to road test a few pizzas before opening night. And I had my radio show staff come in. We had tequila, red wine. It was such a good night and I got a bit carried away and I went, mate, I'll work for free for you every Friday night for a month as a thank you for opening this pizza joint. And then I just loved it so much that, you know, I end up being up here most of the time anyway on a Friday night. 'Cause I kind of think instead of, I'm not drinking booze these days during the week. So Friday night's my night where I like to have a drink. And I just kind of thought I'm more comfortable here. I'm kind of like, I'm one of those try-hard wogs. Who kind of thinks that he's like a bit of a mafia boss and he just wants to sit back in his own pizza joint, invite his friends in, and they allow me to lock up. So even when they're leaving, I'll be here with friends. I say, you guys leave. I've now got my own key. So I've got my own key to the pizza joint. I can just lock up the joint when we leave, make sure we clean it up so it's nice and clean.

Tommy: So you're, you're basically the, the new old owner?

Ben: Like, yeah, yeah, I'm the, I'm the ghost of Livio. I'm still operating here in the pizza joint. And mate, when I— the funny thing is, when I started working here, I remember the first shift I came in I thought, oh, it'll be a bit of an induction, a bit of a get to know you. I'll learn how to use the cash register. I walked in, it was their first Friday night and they're getting smashed. There's people everywhere pouring out the— So I walk in, the tables are covered in dirty plates and everything. So I just start clearing plates, wiping down tables. And then Marty goes, do you know how to fold pizza boxes? And I went, oh yeah. 'Cause like I've learned, you always say yes, even if you don't know. So I just, Folded the first one, it worked, and then everything was going well. But because there was a bit of a queue forming and I'd bought a bit of booze in out the back, I could sense there was a bit of unrest. So I just went— I saw someone had the shits about waiting too long for a pizza.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Ben: So I said, would you like some red wine on the house? And the lady went, that'd be lovely. And I said, take a seat. So she's had a seat, I got my wine out, poured them wine, and then I realised I think free booze will sort out any situation. So there's 4 guys staring at their phones looking cranky waiting on their pizza. Of course now we've got our system sorted, but this is opening night. So I said, "Boys," and then Marty goes, "There's beer in the fridge." I said, "Boys, who wants a free beer?" 3 of them go, "Yep." All of a sudden everyone's getting free piss, everyone's having a good time. It changed the dynamic. So then I introduced, my dad's a wine writer. So he gets a lot of free wine. So then I just brought into the fridge here and out the back, keep people happy wine. So it's basically when we're getting hammered, you keep people happy by giving them a glass of wine. So it's worked really well.

Tommy: Is there a limit to what the bottle costs? You're not giving them Aldi wine?

Ben: No, no, no, it's nice stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's nice stuff. You guys love a good rawt, right? It's only a rawt if you're not in on it. My dad, 40-something years ago, back when no one drunk wine, an old guy called Johnny Walker, no relation to the actual Johnny Walker Scotch whiskey or whatever. This guy ran a steakhouse in the middle of Sydney called Johnny Walker. He was the wine critic for the Sunday Telegraph. My dad was going drinking beers after work. And this old guy says to him, try wine. And this is back when no one drunk wine, right? In Australia. What year is this? Oh, so we're talking, you know, late '60s, '70s. And anyway—

Tommy: It was beer, all beer.

Ben: Everyone was drinking beer, right? And then he introduced Dad to wine. Dad goes, "That's really good." And so Dad would then go and have a wine with him. And then this guy says to him, "If I teach you a few things about wine, you'll never have to pay for a bottle for the rest of your life." And Dad goes, "Well, how does that work?" He goes, "'Cause you become a wine critic." And he goes, "There's only like 2 of us in Australia at that stage." My dad, when Johnny Walker died, Johnny said to the Sunday Telegraph, "I think John Fordham should take over my wine column." My dad, to this day, if you buy the Sunday Telegraph, in the back is Fordham's Pick. It's his wine pick of the week. So what does every wine company in Australia do? They send him wine in the hope that they become Fordham's pick for that week. So we call Dad's garage the drive-through because we just basically just drive the car in there, load it up with wine.

Tommy: But who's got more alcohol, your dad's place or Dickie's Bar?

Ben: Well, mate, I think my dad. You know, I've been to Dickie's Bar. How good's Dickie's Bar?

Josh: It's amazing.

Tommy: Unbelievable.

Josh: I don't really drink. And, but I thought, when are you going to—

Ben: When at Dickies.

Josh: Yeah, when at Dickies. And so I said, yeah, I'd have a red, please. He asked which one. And then Tommy said, I just—

Tommy: I said Pinot. It was a bit warm.

Ben: You were just trying to make it sound like you knew what you were talking about.

Tommy: No, I know Pinot is a light one.

Ben: It's light. It's nice for the soft cock red, right?

Tommy: 100%. What do you mean?

Josh: I'm actually a Shiraz guy.

Ben: Oh, good boy. Good boy, Josh.

Josh: So am I. But the thing is, midday Shiraz could be a bit heavy, especially wearing the merch.

Ben: He's got no idea what he's talking about.

Josh: He's got no idea what he's talking about.

Ben: No, you're wrong.

Josh: Shiraz is not.

Ben: Shiraz is kind of middle range. Cab Sav is your heavy one.

Tommy: Yeah, it's your winter, out the snow.

Josh: But anyway, I don't like the sweetness of like a Sauvignon Blanc.

Ben: Yeah, I think my dad's wine column's safe for now. I don't think Josh is going to be taking over dad's wine column. Anyway, so just to the editor of the Sunday Telegraph, this is not your guy when dad moves on. This is not your man.

Josh: But he did open up a bottle, like when I said, oh yes please, he did open up a bottle, which I did feel guilty about because How long do you have before that bottle is going to go bad?

Ben: Oh, Dickie will finish it by 11 AM. Mate, that's gone. That bottle is finished. That's already, that's in the recycling, that bottle.

Josh: Is there a way to preserve? Because Bree and I have only just started having red wine. And if we don't finish it that night, I reckon a week later?

Ben: No, I'd say 3 days. I reckon, I reckon 3 days.

Tommy: In a pasta sauce, 1 week later would probably be alright.

Ben: It depends how desperate you are.

Josh: Yeah.

Ben: I mean, like anything. How desperate are you? I mean, if there's no food left on earth and you see dog shit there, you'll eat it.

Josh: Potentially.

Ben: I mean, that's probably a strange one to raise, but I'm telling you, it depends how desperate you are.

Josh: With reviewing, so your dad got on early with the wine. What's something that we could— I'm trying to think of trends at the moment that haven't really taken off. I don't want to vape, so I don't want to start reviewing vaping.

Tommy: Is there anything you do that when When you—

Josh: No, we don't have to wait for him to die.

Ben: Well, I've said to Dad, this is true. I've said to my brother Nick, I said, listen, one of us is going to have to step in and take over that wine column. Like at some point.

Josh: Yeah.

Ben: My dad's 75. Yeah. And he's going strong. He had a bit of a health scare recently and thankfully he's got some good news in the last week. But it's like, you know, someone is going to have to step in and take that thing over because it's a goldmine, basically. Wine is dropped at his house every day of every single week. So he's got a wine barrel outside his house and it's, and the couriers all know, you just lift the lid up and you put the wine in there. It's amazing.

Josh: So is there some form of niche that we could, 'cause we know Trev Long's got a massive wrought with gadgets and stuff. Yeah, true. What could ours?

Ben: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the food thing's kind of tied up to a degree, but.

Tommy: I mean, I'm happy to be an airline reviewer or a hotel reviewer.

Josh: Yeah, the airline's really good.

Ben: That's good. Well, I had an idea years ago and like most One of my ideas, I didn't follow through with it, but I had an idea of how far could you get for free?

Josh: Yeah.

Ben: So how far, if you pitched a show—

Josh: Just ask Ash Williams.

Ben: Or a concert.

Josh: Well, that's exactly right.

Tommy: City of Bondi.

Ben: No, no, but the difference with Ash Williams is someone else is usually paying for it. Like, I've been out with Ash 100 times. I've never— I think he's offered. He reached for his wallet once.

Josh: There's nothing.

Tommy: And then he said, "Oh, I forgot it." He has to get a guy on Instagram to pay him to then pay you.

Josh: It's crazy. And you go in the toilets to piss on his feet.

Ben: I reckon if you If you went to airlines and said, look, this is what we're doing. We're flying around the world for free. We're staying somewhere in hotels for free. It can either be you or it can be your rival. It's totally up to you. But we're filming everything, we're showing everything, we're broadcasting everything.

Josh: I actually did this the other day. I emailed Singapore Airlines, Qantas, and one other, Emirates. And the subject line was, podcasting in first class. Great. And so the concept being, uh, podcasting is really taking off. We think we could get some media coverage of us being in an A380, hosting in first class the Daily Talk Show in first class.

Ben: Any reply?

Josh: Singapore Airlines said that they don't have— because I asked for 4 seats. I don't know if that was too many, but I thought, well, we want Mr.

Tommy: 97, Josh, me, and you.

Ben: Yeah, I was wondering who's the 4.

Tommy: It's me. We actually don't know yet.

Josh: And so, uh, but they came back and said, logistically it's hard. Tommy was saying that we should have, I should have said, oh, we can make it really simple.

Tommy: Well, I think the learning is that they say logistically hard, it's then going, no, we just use a few GoPros.

Ben: Yeah.

Tommy: You know, so it's like the barrier, there's not heaps of batteries and cameras.

Ben: I think we reply and say, listen, we can probably work with 2.

Josh: Yeah.

Ben: And then you guys go.

Tommy: Actually, Mr. 97.

Ben: I mean, my poor guy. It's a shame for Mr. 97. Is that okay, Mr. 97?

Tommy: You're gonna be okay? He's gonna work his way up. Yeah.

Josh: So what about if we were to get like a wire, we probably couldn't run wireless, we could run a cable to economy so we could I'd still be monitoring and everything.

Ben: Do you know what?

Tommy: I'd pay for that one.

Ben: If you're ever lucky enough to travel up the front of the plane, something that I absolutely insist upon doing, because I've spent most of my life flying economy. So when you're on someone else's ticket, in other words Channel 9, someone flying you overseas or something, I always do a loop. I always get out of my seat, walk down into economy, and do a loop of the entire plane. And I've taught other people to do it as well. Because it makes you appreciate what you're getting in business class. Otherwise you just walk into business class, sit there and go, oh yeah, this is great. Yeah, but it's only when you go and have a look at what the alternative is that you really then go and sit back in your seat and go, oh my God, how good is this?

Josh: It is, it is strange, isn't it? Because it's— we had some issues with lounge access coming here. So I've got Velocity Gold status There was Tommy97 and myself. Gold only gets you one person in, a plus one. And Tommy with his hair and his confidence, we thought we're definitely going to be able to get an extra person in, right? And so we all had our hoodies on too and we thought they're sponsoring the AFL. So, and then—

Ben: Oh, hoodies, that'll get us in. Wow.

Josh: But Virgin, they let you—

Ben: Oh, they've never seen hoodies before.

Josh: No, but it's uniform. So it's like, okay, we're meant to be together. Anyway, they have tightened up so much that we went up and a lady greeted it. Normally you can even just like put your ticket on and then just go in like there's no one even there. A lady came up and she was straight away onto us.

Tommy: She was a goalie. She was a soccer goalie. Almost like, hey, hey, where are you going? Who are you?

Ben: Yeah, I love Virgin. I think Virgin. I think Virgin. When I was filming Ninja Warrior in Melbourne last year, they booked us Qantas. And look, I don't want to go, you know, playing favorites, but I was like, Virgin have got this thing at Sydney Airport where if you're booked in on business class, then you don't actually have to go through the terminal.

Josh: You go through the lounge.

Ben: Like, it's a separate thing. So instead of walking in and going through the whole process, it's a separate little thing. And I just explained to Channel 9, they said, "Well, look, we've got a relationship with Qantas." And I was like, "Yeah, but I need to go with Virgin because I'm filming radio shows and Ninja Warrior." Yeah. Going between Sydney and Melbourne. And if I can take the terminal out of the picture, that's going to be a game changer. So I ended up going with them and I don't know, I like the lounge just a little bit better, I think.

Tommy: Did you, um, you were doing your radio show from Melbourne, so you do Ninja Warrior. Yeah. Oh, it was dark, it was night you were filming that.

Ben: It was nighttime. Yeah. They start filming about 8 o'clock at night through until about 1:32 in the morning, just near the West Gate Bridge. Okay, yeah, kind of. That was the backdrop behind there.

Tommy: Is it still there?

Ben: What do you mean?

Tommy: Is it set up?

Ben: Is it set? The West Gate Bridge?

Tommy: No, West Gate Bridge, I mean, it came down once, they built it back up.

Ben: Yeah, it was up. No, no, definitely not.

Tommy: I just wanted to try and get Josh.

Ben: Does he know how TV works or he doesn't? He's learning.

Josh: He was asking— we both had some moments with Richard Wilkins where we had a chance to ask a dumb question. Yeah, mine was sort of a one on globalization.

Tommy: No, I think— no, but I still They could sell tickets for people to try and get through that course. Like, I would pay good money to try and see Josh, who thinks he would get through 3 stages before he falls off.

Ben: Well, you know, you know, Ash Williams had a go at the course. He did. It never made air. He was a contestant. It never made it to air. Did you hook that up?

Tommy: I hooked it up.

Ben: He fell over on the first obstacle, and he doesn't talk about it, but I just want to make it publicly known now that Ash Williams had a crack at the Ninja Warrior course last year, fell on the first obstacle. First of all, he turned up and then he texted me and he goes, "You got any pants?" I said, "What are you talking about?" He goes, "I just brought shorts and it's freezing. Have you got any?" So I was like, "Oh yeah, I did rent." I'm like, I'm trying to host a show here. I'm having to run around trying to borrow—

Josh: So is there an audience?

Ben: Tracky pants. Yeah, live audience, the whole thing. He was interviewed by Freddie Flintoff on the sideline, the whole thing. But I think they have about 250 people go through. Not everyone makes it to the end. You know, so it's like Ash was one of those ones who— cutting room floor, no good.

Tommy: They don't even have the data anymore, they got rid of it, so he can't access it.

Ben: Well, he wants to get the footage, of course, to use up in his stand-up routine. So I was given that job as well. He goes, bro, can you access the footage? And you just imagine the people at Channel 9 going, mate, what are we doing going through all the crap that didn't make it to air so your mate can take the piss out of it in a stand-up routine?

Josh: But they're doing it.

Ben: They haven't tracked it down for him yet.

Tommy: What other jobs have you had? I mean, you're a pizza guy.

Ben: Me? First job was a lawnmower business. That's one of the things I like about listening to the show with you guys is that element of it. You get the sense of you guys have got a work ethic, you work hard, and I don't know, I was always stinging to work when I was a kid. I was never going to go to uni because it's just not my thing. Once my study was over, that was going to be the end of my study. And my brother and I started a lawn mowing business as soon as Dad and Mum let us use a lawn mower. It was flyers in the letterboxes and trying to make a bit of money. I delivered a few newspapers because my mate Cam's dad had a newsagent. Then I started doing work experience in radio when I was 15, and then someone said, oh, you know, there's a job in the sports department going on Sundays. I was 16, and so I went to the boss and went, I said, "Oh listen, I can do that job on the Sunday." It was answering phones and buying lunches and stuff like that, making coffees. And he goes, "How old are you?" And I said, "Oh, 16." He goes, "Oh mate." He goes, "It's just a bit young." So I said, and this is the best thing I've ever said in my life. Instead of accepting what he said, I said, "Mate, I'll tell you what, I'll do it to start off with for nothing. And then once you've found the replacement, then you can—"—

Josh: makes so much sense.

Ben: So then he was like, "Oh, okay." I was like, "Well, they need someone this Sunday. You don't have anyone for this Sunday?" And the guys in the sports department at 2UE had told me that they don't have anyone. Yeah. So I was like, "I'll just do it for free until you find someone else." And then after about a month, he goes, "Oh mate, I think we better start paying you." And I got $60 every Sunday. And it was great. It was just an introduction to working hard, having a crack. Then they said to me one day, listen, during— I then started writing scripts. So writing sports scripts, because just from learning from others around the place. And then they said, oh, the Commonwealth Games are coming up. Can you do 2 weeks work during the Commonwealth Games? And I was like, you know, I'm still at school. And this guy was like, you're not at school? I was like, yeah, I'm in Year 12. He goes, I've got you, righto. And so then he said, well, do you want to do it anyway? I said, I'd love to do it. So I went to mum and dad. I was like, look, there's 2 weeks. I'll take 2 weeks off school and I'll do this because it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Mum and Dad were like, no way in the world.

Tommy: I thought you might have got your dad at the moment. He's just been testing wines and he's just, go for it Benny boy.

Ben: Go for it, mate. So I had to go back and regrettably say no. Mum and Dad say I can't do it. And then the guy says to me, he goes, mate, when do you finish school? I said, well, November, December. And he said, we'll give you a cadetship here starting next year because by then Like anything, you know the systems, you know who's who. So I started the day I got my HSC results, which is like the, you know, Year 12 Leaving Certificate kind of thing in New South Wales. And the first storey I sent out on were the kids who got 100. So the day I got my results, which were a long way from 100, I had to go out and like see the parade of the— yeah, yeah, the 14 kids who were the pride of the state who'd got the top marks. And I was sitting there at the back and But I had a job, they didn't. So yeah.

Josh: On the sporting thing, I'm on the lookout for a sport that I can get into from like a viewing point of view.

Ben: What would you recommend? Well, you look like darts or snooker. Actually, not bad. Yeah, I've started playing table tennis recently because I— Is it fun to watch? There's a— it's good to sledge. What happened? There's a club just around the corner here, like an RSL. It's got a gym. And it's quite cheap, the membership. So me and a mate joined it, and then we were walking past this room, and then Tuesdays and Thursday nights there were lots of old blokes in there playing table tennis. Yeah, yeah. And we're walking past and we were kind of looking at them going, going, what's going on here? Yeah, these guys in there, like one of them even had the table tennis bat tucked into his pants. Look at that, Marty! Here we go, pizzas have just arrived. Margherita. What do we got here, mate? Got a pepperoni and a margherita. Oh, looks amazing. Perfect. Thank you, brother.

Josh: Let's give it a Nice sniff.

Ben: So look, yeah, we've got the, um, mate, don't sniff my pizza, dude. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Carlo, here we go, boys.

Josh: This is from Maggio.

Ben: Strawberry, vanilla, chocolate, just classics. Oh great, perfect. Who's the loser who's going to have the strawberry?

Tommy: Mr. 97. No, look, I'll have it.

Ben: I'll have the strawberry.

Josh: I'll have whichever.

Ben: Yeah, look at that. Thank you so much, Carlo. Thank you, mate. So yeah, these are from the, um, the cafe, Maggio's Cafe. Yeah, the desserts will come from Maggio's Bakery, and obviously the pizza from Giovanni's. You better hop in.

Josh: So the table tennis, you're walking past.

Ben: So I walked past, there was even a guy who had the bat tucked into his pants, and we're like, these guys mean business. And then before you know it, we went, let's go in and have a look. I started, you know, gently sledging some of the players. There was a guy called Thomas. Yeah. Who took himself way too seriously. How old would Thomas have been? Oh, he was the youngest. He would have been in his 40s. Others probably average age 60. And then I just started sledging him. You know when you pick someone out and you go, this is the guy. So I was like, and I was like, this is the guy. So I just started saying, oh, I'd love to smash you in a game. And he was like, me? I was like, yeah. And he was the— the best out of the lot of them. He goes, do you play? I was like, no, no, I said, but I could smash you. So then, mate, one thing leads to another, like with me joining the pizza shop and working the pizza shop. Next thing I join the table tennis club, and me and my mate Ben, whenever we go back, we kind of go and work out down there. We haven't been for a little while, I must admit, during winter, but otherwise we go and do a little bit of a session and then we go and play some table tennis afterwards, and I get smashed by Thomas and everyone else.

Tommy: So come in strong with the confidence, but you can't back it up with the skill.

Ben: I mean, it makes it fun.

Tommy: But I like that idea.

Josh: No, it makes it fun. I've done that many times before. I actually got pulled up by my own team playing netball because we won our first ever game. It was for the company I used to work for. And when we won, I had a boombox and I played "We Are the Champions." Oh, mate. And I thought it was brilliant. I'm going around and 4 people from my team pulled me aside and said, that's unsportsmanlike.

Ben: Yeah, don't do it.

Josh: They don't realize. They didn't get it. It's fun. It was hilarious. We won.

Ben: I said, it's so funny. Yeah, no, they didn't get it.

Josh: That's just poor, really poor sportsmanship.

Ben: You know, like I started Instagramming. I was putting on my Instagram storeys just table tennis highlights, you know, and it's interesting the amount of people who are like, hey mate, I got to ask you, what's going on with the table tennis? But you know what, I like anyone who's into something. When you meet people who've got a passion And it doesn't matter whether they're collecting bottle tops or they know something about pizzas. Like my panel operator on my radio show, Will, he knows more about pizza and where to get pizzas in different suburbs of Sydney than anyone else I know. He once drove 45 minutes to Cronulla, which is down south of Sydney, to go and grab a certain pizza that was cooked a certain way, a wood-fired pizza, a smoked chicken wood-fired pizza. Are amazing. Aren't they good? And he drove it all the way back to me. So I like people— if guys are really into table tennis, I like talking to them about the table tennis and why and what bat they like using and what style they like to play with. It's like, you know, if people are into something, I'm interested in it.

Tommy: So then if your thing is being into these people, it's like, you know, you're curious about stories. What is it about these people that are into something? Because that's what I think Josh doesn't have. He's not obsession. He's got heaps of it. Oh no, no, sport-wise. Sports. Sports. No, you've got your obsessions.

Ben: It's just about being people who are obsessed about something. So it's like, you know, like I met a bloke recently, Star Wars. There was some significant thing to do with Star Wars, and my radio producer said, oh, we've found this guy and he's like one of the biggest Star Wars collectors in Australia. Star Wars merch and memorabilia, and his whole house is covered in it. That interests me. I'm not into Star Wars, but I'm into the guy who's into Star Wars. And I just like to know, I'm like, mate, are you single? Like, what is your— and he goes, no. And I'm like, what is your— is your girlfriend in? No, she's not really that into it. But every inch of his house is covered in Star Wars stuff. It's like, you know, those are the people, particularly in TV and in radio, they're the people you want to interview. If it's Elvis Presley and you've got the guy who's the Elvis Presley freak, who knows everything about Elvis and has covered his whole life and his house and his body in Elvis tattoos. It's like, well, I don't know, there's something special about those. People are obsessed.

Tommy: I know a guy who's got so much memorabilia on his walls of musicians and he, you'd think he knows all these musicians, but Facebook just is littered with different selfies of him and musicians. He goes to airports to find them. Thank you, Marty. He goes to events, waits out— Memorabilia? No, no, no, to find celebrities to get photos of. Oh, I think I've seen him.

Ben: Yeah. What have we got here, mate?

Josh: Sausage and potato and prawn.

Ben: Oh mate, now these are my two favorites, right? This is the prawn. And Marty, what else is on the prawn? It's just a little bit of— Bit of salsa verde on top. Oh, yum. Truffle oil on the sausage potato. Yum, mate. A bit of rosemary. It's so good. These are my two favorites. And so, yeah, if you ever drop into Giovanni's on a Friday night, you'll usually see me touching the sausage. Yes. Don't finish my sausage. I haven't eaten it. I'll take that as a compliment.

Tommy: Get out. So what's your thing?

Ben: Have you got an obsession?

Josh: No, we'll see.

Ben: Generalist. You've got specialists and you've got generalists, and I think as a journo, I like, you know, I'm the— I can sit around a dinner table and talk for 2 minutes on any topic, but I don't think I can really talk for an hour on one topic, you know what I mean? Because that's what I don't like getting— I've got a short attention span. I don't like getting too kind of bogged down in any one thing. I mean, there's certain things I suppose I've got general interests in politics, in radio, in media. But beyond that, no, I'm a generalist as opposed to a specialist. But as a journalist or a radio host, I'm looking for the specialists. So I don't pretend to be the guy who knows everything about— You're the dot connector. Yeah, I'm the dot connector. I'm the person who's standing there going, hang on, who are the people who know the most, who've got the most interesting points of view on these topics? And I'll get them on the radio and I'll stand there as the the traffic cop kind of directing traffic.

Josh: It feels like you're so different to other talkback, like it doesn't feel like you're the quintessential talkback radio host. Do you think that?

Ben: Well, I don't know. I suppose I think everyone's different. I think they're all different and I don't think they're all the same. I mean, I don't know, you only know what to do, you only know to be yourself and to do your thing. And I think if If that's the main marker, then you can't go wrong. I think if you try and be something you're not, try and pretend to be an expert on things you're not, like, you know, there are times when I've had people ringing on the show to talk about certain things, and sometimes I've actually decided not to take the call because I'm like, well, am I really going to be able to shed light on the state of the stock market at the moment? 'Or are you better off ringing Ross Greenwood's Money News show?' You know, like, mind you, if someone's calling in and they want to tell, educate me about something, happy days. But yeah, I just, I don't know, I only know to do what I do, I suppose, in it because I'm on AM radio. But what I discovered when I took over my drive time show, I discovered that on the station I work on, it was number one in every shift apart from drive time. And I didn't know this until I agreed to do the drive shift, and I was like, what do you mean? They said, yeah, we're number one 21 hours a day. And I was like, what about our shift? They're like, nah, no, we're not. And I was like, how, why does that work? They said, it's kind of always been that way. And then when I looked at it, I was like, people are choosing to tune into music on their way home. Surprise, surprise, people don't want to be loaded with a lot of heavy opinion all the way home when they've just had a whole day in the office. Maybe they wake up and they want that information when they wake up, but when they drive home— I'm a bit like that when I leave work. I tend to want to listen to music in the car on the way home. So not that I play a lot of music, but I think what I've done with the content is just blended, you know, made it, lightened it up a little bit where I still go hard on things that I'm strong and passionate about, but you can still throw in You know, like our mate Bruno Boucher and his list on the best ice creams and the worst ice creams or chocolate bars. I've got a possum or a rat or something in my roof at the moment. It's been an issue for a couple of weeks. Mate, I can talk about that and the board lights up. Isn't that FM sensibilities though? Do you think that that's like— Well, I don't know. I just think it's human sensibilities. It's what people want and what they're interested in. And there are some things people try and act really smart. Yeah. And like, I know with producers, when they first join my show, sometimes they'll pitch storeys and I think they're trying to impress me about how intelligent they are. And it's like, well, mate, I already know you're smart. That's why I hired you. But my big test is, mate, is anyone going to sidle up to anyone tonight at the pub and go, wow, did you hear about that white paper that's been developed by the Insurance Council of Australia about changes that are coming from the ACCC regarding ASIC in 2020? No, but someone's gonna walk in to the pub and go, mate, did you see that list that idiot did today about ice creams? What a joke that is. It's like, so you can still do the insurance, you can still do the politics, you can still do all the foreign affairs, whatever's going on with Brexit or Donald Trump, as long as you don't kid yourself into thinking that that's all people want.

Tommy: How do you reflect stuff that you might not be that passionate about or even just care about?

Ben: I tend not to do it. Yeah, you know, like, you don't need to do everything. Everyone, you don't need to cover every issue. Yeah, I think that's what I've learned, that from other radio hosts, listening to them and thinking there are certain radio hosts that I've never heard talk about certain topics because maybe they're just not that into it. And if you're talking about things that you're, you're into like that thing before I said about people who have got passions or obsessions or whatever, that comes through. So, you know, play your forehand, lean into your forehand and say, this is my strong shot, these are the things I'm interested in. And then you can always mix that up by going, look, there's something that's popped up that I don't know a hell of a lot about, and all of a sudden I'm interested in it and I'm going to get a bit of an education about it. This afternoon. Yeah, we're not the smartest tools in the shed. I've gathered that.

Josh: Yeah. And, um, and one of the things that I only—

Tommy: sorry, what did you just say? Not the smartest tools in the shed? Yeah, mate, he's struggling. No, it's so beautiful because the saying is the sharpest, but we're not the smartest either. That was beautiful. Well done, Gronkh.

Josh: Uh, wow, wow. I only, uh, found out like 3 years— oh, when was, uh, Trump elected, whenever that was, and there was all like— I was watching all the news. It was only then that I found out about like right-leaning media versus left-leaning media.

Ben: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so what I find interesting is 2GB, is that considered right-leaning?

Ben: Yeah, definitely conservative radio, absolutely. And so what does that— but see, here's the thing, right? That's your branding, right? But then say, for example, in New South Wales we had these lockout laws came in, right? And young people in New South Wales hate them because it was like, okay, we're locking up the city, last drinks, kicking everyone out, killing off the nightlife. Alan Jones, who's the breakfast host on 2GB and probably regarded as one of the most formidable conservative commentators in the country, he was the first to blow the whistle on it and go, hang on a moment, this is Crazy. We're killing off the fun, we're killing off the nightlife, we're killing off— what about all these other businesses that are going to pay the price? What about the guys selling the pizzas and the kebabs and the Uber drivers and the taxi drivers? And then, so yes, people might naturally lean a certain way on issues, but there's always those things where people have their own points of view on things that don't necessarily fit that box. You don't want to be the person whose opinion can be guessed every single time before you've opened your mouth. Otherwise, what's the point listening to you? Yeah. And sometimes I say things on the air and my listeners will go, mate, you are so wrong about this. Like, you're weird, you know. It's like, all right, well, you guys have overwhelmingly got a different opinion on this to me.

Josh: So do you not touch that stuff there? No, no, no, you definitely do it.

Ben: You do it. You just, um, and look, on the same radio station there is different points of view on the same issues. Like, there's a family at the moment from Sri Lanka who's on Christmas Island. There's a big tussle over whether they're going to be sent back to Sri Lanka. On 2GB, Alan Jones in Breakfast is saying this family deserves to stay. Ray Hadley in Mornings, the show straight after, is saying no, they've broken the rules, they've got to go. So, you know, people like to put everyone in the same category as saying you all And also the idea that some big boss— one of the great misunderstandings is the idea that some big boss is coming down and saying, this is what you guys say.

Josh: That's what I thought was so strange. Like, how do we all— how do you make sure if you're a right-leaning or left-leaning media that everyone's going to have the same opinions? Well, you don't.

Ben: You know, but even say, mate, even on Fox News, try that prawn pizza right now. It's awesome. Even on Fox News, you've got— not all the Fox News hosts in America see eye to eye. Half the time they hate each other. And if you have a look at that, um, Russell Crowe, um, show that was just out on Stan, The Loudest Voice, which was about Roger Ailes, who established Fox News. Now admittedly, he kind of ruled with an iron fist, and when people didn't agree with his views on things, he often found a way of, um, you know, making them kind of disappear out of the business. But you, you see there's a lot of hosts who are against each other. Some have got an opinion that's black on one issue and some have got an opinion that's white on the other. Like at the moment, I think on 2GB, Steve Price is another guy who's on the same radio station. He's on just before me, who people probably know from The Project. And there's a debate around at the moment about if you're on unemployment benefits, if you're on Newstart, you get paid a pittance. And it's got to the point where if you're living in Sydney or Melbourne, or even probably Brisbane, maybe even Perth, depending on your cost of living. Mate, there's no way in the world people can survive on $260 a week. Yeah, like, how can anyone survive off that?

Josh: I think Ash Williams— Ash Williams, correct. But he only—

Ben: I think it's because he doesn't pay his rent and he doesn't pay credit card bills, and he owes the government money. But, but it's like, you know, so Pricey's view is that no, we're not— we don't need to increase it. It's not there as a safety net. It's like, no, that's just there as a bridge to get people a job. My view is No, you know, people need more to live on. So that's the thing. And mate, it makes it a lot more interesting for the listeners. And you never, these things are never like, oh, I'm gonna say this and you say that, but I'll often hear him say something and I think, well, I've got a different view. And it's not a case of saying he's wrong and I'm right, but it's like, well, this is what I think. And then you let people decide.

Tommy: It's also, you can coexist, you can be in the same building and walk past each other and be mates.

Ben: Mate, some of my best mates are people who've got very different opinions to me. And I think there are some people who have said to me, how can you be mates with that bloke? I'm like, well, what do you mean? We have some of the best barneys over a dinner table, sitting down, and all of a sudden I've got friends who actively encourage me and a certain person who's got a different view to me. They love being there. They go, this will be good tonight, this will be good tonight. And so they throw the grenade in knowing that I'm going to go head-to-head with this certain person and we're going to rip each other's heads off. And, but I still love hanging out with the bloke, still love having a feed with him, having a hit of tennis and whatever else.

Tommy: And so yeah, you said that, uh, the station has its brand which might be more conservative. Who's developed that though? Because brands start from somewhere.

Ben: It's like the audience.

Tommy: Okay, so they've— it's been dictated by the audience.

Ben: The audience, like anything, the audience likes listening to a certain thing, and the more of them that listen to that certain thing, the higher the ratings are.

Tommy: I hope we haven't developed a racist audience. No, it's not us.

Ben: And the more, the higher the ratings are, probably the more guaranteed that person is of that shift. So, you know, but mate, I have people, I've had literally back-to-back emails Like one comes through at 3:43 saying, just attacking me for being too right-wing, and 3:44 for attacking me for being a lefty. And so I always read them out and go, this is gold, listen to this. Graham at 3:43, I'm a right-wing zealot, and Mick at 3:44 saying, mate, you're a shocking lefty, you're on the wrong radio station. So, you know, it depends on where you're viewing these things from as well.

Josh: Have you got any catch cries or things that you constantly say, because in our office we've actually started quoting you a lot because you made a video where you were supporting Organized August. Brilliant.

Ben: I was a big supporter of Organized August. In fact, I can't wait for next August. Yeah. And so I can't believe Tommy shitcanned it. I know, really.

Josh: And so what you said in that video is you said, oh, and his co-host Tommy thinks it's a bad idea. And then you pause and you say, that's crazy.

Ben: And so—

Tommy: You just said that's crazy before and I looked over at Mr.

Ben: 97. It was really dismissive as well. And it was laughed. It was like, this guy's obviously lost the plot. That's crazy.

Josh: But anyway, like even we were driving and Tommy didn't even realise he was doing it, but he said, that's crazy. And then I said, that's crazy. And the Uber driver laughed. So hard, he didn't even know what was going on.

Ben: No, well, so I mean, that's it. That's why I'm sure I've got those fallbacks. Yeah, those things that you fall back on. That's crazy, you know. Like I say things, if someone's calling in and they've told me something and I, I don't quite know what to say, I go, what? Because it's so true, it just gives you that extra— they ring in and they make some comment and I think, I don't know what I'm about to say that, I go, what? And then they tell you again, and then I say something half intelligent. So it's like, that's one of my kind of get out of jail free cards. Yeah, I feel like you also have like, um, just a presence.

Josh: I was watching, um, some live stream. I don't know if you always do it, but I went on the 2GB website and I was watching you live with video. Is that an always-on thing for you?

Ben: Yeah, yeah, we do that. Yeah, that's sick.

Josh: Anyway, I was so surprised If you watch us doing the show, the videos, I've got my core disengaged. I'm basically like falling over on my chair, just sort of talking. You are upright. Yeah, I'll be ready to go. Crisp white shirt with a nice grey pant. Do you say pant?

Ben: I'll be ready to go.

Josh: And you've got your hands.

Ben: Crouching Tiger. Yeah. And you've got your hands and you're going, I'm moving, I'm animated. That's crazy.

Josh: You've just heard blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Ben: How did I become the that's crazy guy? We've actually got premium Bart Simpson t-shirts.

Josh: We're going to Stop, where you just went like that, we're gonna get a frame of that. We're gonna get it illustrated and it's gonna say, "That's crazy." Yeah.

Ben: But is that an actual thought that, "Okay, I need to move my arms, I need to breathe." No, no, no, that's just me being, I suppose that I'm used to talking that way. As I said, it's the kind of, you know, it's the Italian in me. Even though I'm not officially an Italian. But I think, and also probably TV, one thing, that I learned early on on TV from Carl Stefanovic. My first day, I did 4 years of being on the Today Show every morning with Carl and Lisa and Georgie Gardner and Richard Wilkins, and we'd be sitting there every morning. On my first day, Carl says to me, he goes, now mate, what's the most important thing? And I went, uh, credibility. He goes, nah. 'Experience? Nah, energy.' And I went, 'Ah.' He was like, 'Mate, energy.' He goes, 'If you can bring energy,' he goes, 'any shortcomings you have on experience or knowledge or intelligence or anything else will be disguised by that great energy.' And I probably was energetic already, but I think that taught me something as well, that if you're, you know, and you want to be, you want to be into it, you want to be be bringing, and I probably bring too much. I've had people like Kyle Sandler describes me as the guy who shouts, which is quite a good stitch-up, but it's quite true. I've been in on his show and he says, don't use my friggin catchphrase, it's crazy.

Josh: So, um, can we get a clean one?

Ben: He's, um, yeah, I'll give you a clean one. That's crazy. That was overcooked.

Tommy: Two more. Yeah, half the energy.

Ben: And quite That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. So you can use it for all different situations. And if someone dies, that's crazy. So good. You probably wouldn't say that, would you, if someone died? But yeah, the energy thing, I think. And yeah, so Kyle in the studio one day, he goes, mate, why do you shout all the time? He said, just talk. And it's a fair criticism, I think, of my delivery. But it's hard because it's just like, that's what I do.

Josh: Everything seems like, because I listen to the podcast and what I love is if I'm a little bit anxious, it's not the best thing to listen to because it always feels like there is some breaking news with whatever you're doing.

Ben: There's always something happening. There's always something happening. You want that, you want that. Which I've got some breaking news. Breaking news. Just while you're talking about that, I want you to try the sausage and potato pizza. I'm excited.

Tommy: So that energy, what about when you're not feeling it? Mr. 97? Are you manufacturing it or are you just stepping into?

Ben: I know, mate, I always feel it when the light's on, when that light comes on and the microphone's on, I always feel the energy. What I do do, what you've just raised about when you're not feeling it, I've always got pre-records up my sleeve. Always have pre-records. So at any one time, I've got 6 interviews that are sitting on the board that are timeless things that I've done that I just find really interesting. And I, I pre-record them because I don't want to be locked into doing them on a certain day because of the breaking news aspect of my show. It's all of a sudden you've got a major thing happening, and I've locked in that I've got this person in the studio talking about something completely unrelated to what I really want to be talking about right now. So sometimes I pre-record those things. And mate, some of them sit on the board for months. And if I'm feeling off, like as far as psychologically, if I'm like, oh mate, I'm just not in the right frame of mind today because there's something going on in my life that's kind of got me down, or I'm so wrecked through overworking or whatever, then those are the days where I think, you know what, I reckon a couple of pre-records are going to go away today. But I'll say to my team, I go, those prerecords are getting a run today. We're going to run that one and that one. And they always go, oh yeah, yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Because they know once the light's on and once I go, then all of a sudden they go, aren't we playing that prerecord? It's like, nah, nah, nah, I'm all good. Because it feeds you. And that's where the thing I have lots of work experience kids who come through my show. When I first started working at 2GB, there was no work experience kind of element to it. You just dropped picks on me. Oh my God. On my pants. They can't, don't rub me, don't rub me. So I started a bit of a, um, as if that was not going to happen. Well, because it's not. Crazy. I brought in the work experience thing, and so I've got great work, I've got work experience kids because I was a former work experience kid, and then I've got interns, and then I've got paid interns, and that's how everyone kind of comes through the system. Then they get a job, and then a lot of the time, then if they, when they decide they want to go and work in TV, then I kind of shuffle them off to go and work at Channel 9. So it's a really good kind of system in place. And now I forgot what we're even talking about because I'm distracted by the mess on my pants.

Tommy: Josh and I, and Mr. 97, we find your generosity, uh, unbelievable towards us and your support. Where does that come from? As far as— because it's not just to us. I can see the pizza shop, your mates, you know, probably from my mum and dad.

Ben: Mum and dad have always without me kind of being conscious of it, I've met a lot of people who say to me, say for example restaurant owners. I go to a restaurant, there's a restaurant called Verde in Darlinghurst, this Italian restaurant, and the guys there, Antonio and Ronnie, I remember them saying to me, "Oh mate, what your dad has done for us." And I go, "What's my dad done for you?" He goes, "Don't you know?" I'm like, "No." And he goes, "Well mate," He started organising these lunches here and then he introduced this guy, Dennis Hanlon, the boss of Sony, who then started coming here. Now Sony have all their functions here and now, and I don't know, like, I suppose I'm— I like people to have a go. I love people who set things up. So that's when I heard your podcast and I just love the element of— I love the daily element of it. I love the fact that you— I don't know, it's just I enjoy listening to it. I've got this weird thing with podcasts as well that when I start getting hooked on them, then I want to be on them. And this is really self-centered, but it's like, I want to be involved. I like getting involved. If there's something like the pizza shop, I'm like, I love the pizza shop, want to get involved. So I want to get amongst it. I want to, I can just come in here and just enjoy it. But also it's about tipping other people into it. So if I love, if I find a joint that I like, I then go, right, we're all going, let's all go. And then the best thing is when you discover the people you've taken to that restaurant, they then go back independently. So when I go back into the restaurant, they go, oh, Mr. 97 came in the other day. Yeah, like, who did he come in with? He's not coming in with me, you know. It's like, oh, he brought some people in from his work. So I don't know, that thing kind of just flows on. And the podcast thing, like, there are some boys at The Sweetest Plum, is probably the first comedy podcast that I fell in love with. Deck and Nick, and I started listening to them and I just found them really funny. And I just— and, and then I, I heard them bagging a few people because they bag everyone. In fact, I think they bagged me, which is how I first got onto it. And I was like, what is this thing? And I listened to it and I was being bagged on it. And then I heard them getting stuck into David and Sonia from Channel 9 one day, David Campbell and Sonia Kruger. Yeah, get into it. And they were hammering them over something. So then I thought, oh, so I bumped into David and Sonia and I said, look, can you record a video message for these guys who have a podcast? These guys I know, I didn't know them. So then I just sent it in and then that started this thing where all of a sudden they started saying, why is Ben Fordham listening to our podcast? That's crazy. And why is he sending us videos? So, you know, like Con the Fruiterer. Yeah. They were giving so much grief to Con the Fruiterer on the podcast one day and then I'd bump into him at Channel 9. So I go, 'Oh, Con, hi mate.' I said, 'Can you record a video shout out to these guys?' So then the next thing, then I'm listening to the podcast and it was like, I loved kind of being a disruptor, you know, just kind of getting involved. The Teacher's Pet, which was the big podcast of last year, which was all that— I didn't infiltrate that. Murder someone. Well, Headley Thomas, allegedly, still before the court, Headley Thomas, who did the podcast, is a mate of mine. He called me before episode 1 landed and said, 'I want to tell you what I'm doing.' and if you believe in it, can you get behind it? And I said, absolutely. So I started talking about it on radio and then started following up on a lot of the same issues, and he then started incorporating that into the podcast, you know. And like with you guys, I don't know, I think with you guys, I was listening to you guys for ages, and it was only when Organized August came up that you floated this thing, and Tommy just stomped all over it straight away, and I really felt for you. Thank you. Because I just felt like you were being kind of downtrodden and degraded by your dear friend over here, who, as you say, you know, they're doing it, you know, they don't know they're doing it. And, um, as you say, I'm here, guys. As you say, he's got the haircut and the confidence and whatever. And that's when I thought, hang on a moment, I'm not going to cop this, I'm getting involved. So that's why I was like, no, I'm backing Organized August, and I want to get Sonya Kruger back, and I want to get people Let's get involved.

Josh: Let's do it. Do you think, is there a risk that one day I do get the hair and I do get the confidence? No, no, no, no.

Ben: I think you're going to be okay. What about Richard Wilkins? He had a haircut just before the podcast.

Josh: Also, yeah, he was talking about it and 97 pointed out I was a little bit tipsy, but I told him, I told Dickie to fuck off because he said—

Ben: Sorry. Did I just hear that correctly? That's crazy. I mean, that is, that's crazy. See, I should have saved it for then. Why did I use it earlier? Oh my God, that's crazy.

Josh: He was saying that he didn't have great hair, and I just think that it's, I mean, I'm wearing a hat right now because I've got some of the thinnest hair in podcasting, and for him to say that, it's like people who say they're upset because they can't put on weight. And they're saying it to someone who's a little bit chubby, it's not a great thing to hear. And I felt that Richard was complaining about his awesome hair.

Ben: Yeah, well, that's a disgrace that he was doing that. I love him, but yeah.

Tommy: The generosity, do you find— because I think people can see it— do you find people coming to try and get a bit of the generosity that you share?

Ben: Oh, a lot. No, at all. Not at all, mate. I do it for— I don't see it, see, I don't see it as generosity. I see it as, like with Ash Williams, I was listening to The Team Effort, another great podcast. Ed Kavalee and Tony Martin and Ash, and then they kind of rotate the fourth one. In fact, where's The Team Effort podcast happened? I haven't heard one of them in a while. Um, but And I heard Ash on there saying he was moving to Sydney, and so it's like, and I sent him a note. I didn't know him, but I said, when you come to Sydney, if you want to catch up and I can kind of show you around. And it's more me wanting to be a part of you as opposed to you wanting my help. It's more me kind of listening to it going, I like the sound of these guys, and if I like something, well, why am I kind of going to kind of want to get involved in that? You know what I mean? It's like chasing a girl who you fall in love with. Now I don't want to get weird on you guys, but it's like—

Josh: Which one are you chasing more, Tommy or me?

Ben: No, it's a collective. But the hair— Well, no, I like peroxided blonde hair. So Mr. Nice Hair. Why is he fidgeting nervously over there in the corner all of a sudden? Do you want some pizza, baby? What do you want? You want margarita? Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: There's a margarita. He's a plain Jack.

Ben: Got some dessert coming as well. Oh yeah. Yes. Hey Marty, what's the dessert?

Tommy: Right here. Oh, hello!

Ben: Look at this. Drop these off before I leave. Look at these. So this is from Maggio's Bakery, and this stuff is just— so there's a tiramisu. Oh, tiramisu!

Tommy: Wow, it's a sambal, like a chocolate mousse.

Ben: Yum, yum, yum, yum! Carlo, thank you, Carlo. Thanks, buddy. Thanks so much. Appreciate it, man. Thank you so much. That looks so good. You got the key so you can lock up? I do. And I'm out tonight, so I won't be working tonight.

Tommy: But thank you very much.

Josh: And on that, sleep. Yeah. One thing that Tommy and I are always referencing is when we're feeling tired, we look at people like you and we say, well, look at Fordo. Like, he's doing it all. He's doing breakfast. We're seeing him on breakfast TV. He's doing 2GB in the afternoons and then he's working. Doing boxes, pizza boxes.

Tommy: But then you got 2 kids and another one on the way. Yeah.

Ben: Yeah. I don't know. I'm good at looking busy. And I'm also, mate, I don't waste time doing stuff I don't like. I had someone teach me years ago and he's a mate of mine who I actually haven't seen in a while. His name is Richo Rourke. And I met him in a nightclub. He said to me, and I was talking to him, and you're going to get me philosophical here, but someone came over to me and said, and who I hadn't seen in a while, someone came over and went, "Oh mate, how are you?" And I said, "Oh, good, good." And I was talking to Rich.

Josh: This is in a nightclub?

Ben: This is in a nightclub. So, you're yelling? Yeah, we're yelling. Yeah, yeah. And then he came over and I was like, I said, "Mate, I'll be over in a minute. I'm just talking to my mate. I'll be over." And it was someone who I like hadn't seen since primary school. I didn't really want to talk to. And then I said, oh mate, I better go over and talk to this guy. And he goes, do you want to? I said, no, I don't want to at all. He goes, well, don't. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, why don't you want to talk to him? I said, because mate, he was an asshole at primary school. I haven't seen him in 15 years. I don't really got no interest in talking to him, but it's kind of the polite thing to do. He said, mate, don't do it. 'Only do things you want to do.' And a light went on. And so to use that in my current life, there's so many things that I could be going to that I don't really want to go to. I don't really like— I don't like going to events as such. I don't like going to, you know, movie premieres or kind of, you know, industry kind of parties or things like that. If I'm emceeing it, as if it's a charity thing and I'm the emcee, I'm there because I kind of like emceeing and I like a job to do. But if it's just being there and I'm like, well, I need to— I'd rather be at home. Like, there's nothing better. Jodie, my wife, and I have got this thing that we do where you get invited to something, just say it's a big charity fundraiser thing, and I've had to confess to a couple of the charities that I've got associations with where I've had to say, listen, if you don't need me to MC it, I'm unlikely to be able to get there because save me— I'd rather— save me for when you need me to do that kind of MCing, and otherwise I just want to be be at home with Jodie. So, but I'll still put it in my diary, that event that's on, even though I've RSVP'd that I can't be there. So I've said for them, example, you've got like, there's a thing, um, a charity where Richard Wilkins is emceeing the thing, and I say to them, you got Dickie emceeing, like I can be sitting in the room with 700 people on a Friday night wearing a suit, or I can be at home with Jodie. Like, you know, charity starts at home and your commitments start at home. So I'm like, And I'm really honest with them about it. I said, I'll be there when you need me to host anything, right? Because then I feel like I'm being useful. So the best thing is I'll be sitting on a Friday night and I'll say to Jodie, oh, you know where we could be tonight? And I look at it or you see Instagram pictures coming in and I'm like, people in a tuxedo on a Saturday night. And you just feel that much better just sitting back into the couch. Comfy. Having a glass of red wine and just going, You know, like, so I suppose I avoid a lot of that. I use my time wisely in that I, you know, I get asked to go to a lot of things and I also offset it, for example, by— I'll say to charities, yesterday I was asked to go and do this thing in November. October, November, December, forget about it.

Josh: What's happening?

Ben: So as in, I go hard January through to September, October, but then if I get an invite to something that's in October, November, I'm like No, no, no, no, no, unless it's a charity that I've got an association with and I need to help, because I know psychologically I'm gonna be rooted at the end of the year. I'm not gonna want to do that. So the way I help people out is like a guy approached me the other day and said, look, we're having this big multicultural event, it's about 45 minutes from here, it's on a Sunday in November, we want you to be there and host it. I said, mate, I can't I can't do that because I just need to be— I'm gonna have a newborn baby at home. I said, you know, otherwise I've seen too many blokes who've stuffed things up by taking their eye off the ball in a family sense, in a marriage sense. So I was like, mate, I can't be there, but do you want to come on the radio show to give it a free plug? And he goes, yeah, sure. So I suppose I use that as a way too to kind of— as my way of politely excusing myself from having to go there. So look, I might seem busy, but I could be a lot busier. Yeah, and so what's the plan when the bub comes?

Tommy: Because that's a couple of weeks.

Ben: I'll have a couple of weeks off. Yeah, a couple of weeks off when the baby comes. And also I'm a big believer in getting a lot of help. So it's like, this girl sent me a thing in the post, this box, and it had chocolates in it and a note. And she said, I don't know you, but from listening to you and watching you, I gather that you would rather spend time with Jodie and Freddie and Pearl than be doing a lot of things that you don't need to be doing. She goes, I've started my own personal concierge business. In fact, this is right up your alley. So I'm like, what's that? And she put chocolates in it as well for the kids. What sort of chocolates? Great question. Little mini like favorites, you know what I mean? You know, general, a bit of a selection of chocolates. That's a really, really good question. So anyway, that's crazy. So I open it up and I'm like, okay, so she's pretty smart. Her name's Amber, pretty smart. She's thrown some chocolates in for the kids and she knows me well enough. So I meet her for a coffee and I'm like, she goes, how can I make your life easier? And I said, to be honest with you, my wife wakes up at 3:15 every morning. She's reading the 5 AM news on Channel 7. When I get home after radio and I see Jodie then cleaning up after dinner and I then feel guilty, but I don't want to be doing it straight away because I've just got home from work. And I was like, I don't, I said, I would love to find like a uni student who lives within 2 streets of our house who wants to just come in on their own flexible time for 1 hour a night just to clean up the house. And she goes, I'll find the person for you. So she does the advertising, she does the interviewing. The next thing she discovers a girl called Francesca who's a law student, lives in the street next to ours. Francesca just gets a key to the house. She comes in whenever she wants. I pay her for 1 hour a night and I say to her, if you're done in half an hour, you're done in half an hour, you can kind of go. Any night that you don't want to be there because you've got a dinner you've got to go to or whatever, that's fine. You don't have to be there every night. I put the cash on the fridge at the start of the week and she comes in Sunday night, Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night, which means Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, when we wake up in the morning, the house looks absolutely perfect, just like the kids' toys are off the ground, the plates are cleaned up, you know, the washing's put away, all those kind of things. So I've kind of been a big believer. I've got kids working for me. Like, I've got two boys. I've got boys in the street who work for me. A boy called Max comes to our house every weekend to hose the lawn and to empty the skimmer box. And I did a deal with him up front. I had a two-year contract with Zach and Ash across the road, written, right? All written up. And they go, what about if we're away? I said, you're away, you find someone to fill the spot. 'Yeah.' And they said, 'Do we have to pay whoever fills in what you're paying us?' I said, 'Whatever your arrangements are, up to you.' These guys are like 8 and 10. Now they then, at the end of that, we did a 12-month contract, we then rolled it over into the next year, and at the end of last year I said, 'You want to go around again?' Because it was like getting negotiation time, and they said, 'Yeah.' And I said, 'You don't sound that keen,' and they went, 'No.' You know, young kids, fair enough. I said, "All right, it's no worries." I said, "Max down the road wants to do it and Jasper up the road wants to do it. So there's plenty of other kids who want to do it." So anyway, so I then do a deal with Max and the way I do it, I do cash upfront. So I pay for the whole year in February. So the kids are looking at this cash going, "Holy shit." You know? So I go, "But you're there every weekend. You do 5 minutes hosing at the front, 5 minutes hosing at the back." Do you think there's a risk in giving them the cash upfront? There is a risk. Several people said to me, "That's crazy." But I like it. I didn't even realise I did that. Honestly, it's just now slipping out. But I like that element. I like that, you know, it's a good trust element to go, I've got faith in you.

Josh: But maybe there's something, 'cause even when we get paid upfront— I wouldn't continue this sentence. No, I mean, just edits and stuff get 10% harder because it's like, if you wait until on delivery, you get the final payment, it's then you're working towards it.

Ben: So potentially on like a quarterly, I kind of like being the, as I told you, the mafia boss around the suburb. The kids were like, oh, look at this cash that he gave. And that's right, they owe me. So then anyway, the boys then came back. This was the best thing. This was the best thing. Zachy and Ash came back across. They'd had to think about it and they were like, what are we doing? This is crazy. So they came back, knocked on the door. I do say it a lot. And then they go, oh, we've had a rethink. No, we do want to do it. And you've already spoken to Max? I said, what? You do want to do it? I said, oh boys, that's a shame. I get out my text messages and I go, I just locked in Max 15 minutes ago. You snooze, you lose. So I was like, I'll find some other jobs for you. So, you know, I don't like getting in my own attic, right? Because it's like, you kind of, if you're an adult, you've got to crouch over. Kids, they can stand up. It's fast and it's fun. And kids love getting in the attic. So I'm like, There's $20, spend an hour cleaning up the attic, go up there and clean stuff up.

Tommy: And you know, like how many kids you got on the payroll?

Ben: Oh mate, there's been some weekends, I kid you not, where I've added up that I've paid 6 kids in one weekend, including when our second child was born, Pearl. And this is on my Instagram somewhere. I paid a kid called Kai to walk her in the pram. 'Cause I was like, oh mate, you gotta get her off to sleep in the pram. And I was like, I just feel like riding my bike. So I rode my bike alongside him on the street and he was walking up and down through the suburb. Are you paying good money? He was getting good cash for it. And the best thing, okay, the prize job in my street and in my house, you know when your Foxtel, if you've got Foxtel, when it's full, when the memory's full, 'cause it'll say you've got 10% left, 5% left, 3% left. Once it starts going down, there's not a delete all button. You've got to delete individually. You've got to delete individually, and there's not just delete, you've got to go delete, select, delete, select, delete, select. So that's a 15-20 minute job to clear the whole thing. I pay kids to do the delete, select. Kids come into my house, I'm not joking, and the best was when this kid who I didn't know stopped me one day because two kids who I've paid to do it previously, Beau and Kai, had bragged about it at school. They're in primary school and they bragged about it like, "Ah yeah, this guy's given us, you know, like $15 to sit there and just delete his Foxtel." And the other kids were like, "Bullshit." And they're like, "No, it's true," right? And they'll ask my brother and the kids didn't believe him. So I'm up getting a coffee one day up the road here and this kid I didn't know just walked up and went, "Excuse me." He goes, "Do you pay Beau and Kai to delete your Foxtel?" I was like, I was like, yeah, how do you know? He goes, oh, I was just asking. And he walked away. I was like, and then I went to Bowen Kai and I was like, why did some strange kid? They go, because they don't believe us. They don't believe us. It's the best job around. So there's other kids start pitching for the work, but you know, that goes back to probably the lawn mower business. You know, it's just like you want to give them a go. I've had times where I've walked into my house before I had Francesca coming in to do the cleanup. I've had times where Jodie's out for the day and she's out. I'm like, oh mate, the house just looks like a wreck. And I really should— it'll make a difference to her if she walks in and it's clean. It's clearly going to make her happier than this. But I don't have it in me. I just like— I'm just not in the right— so I'll walk outside on the street and I'll like just have a bit of a look around because I know all the kids. And I'm like, hey Bo, come here. I said, you want some money? He goes, yep. Clean up everything off the floor of this house. I was like, anything that's on the floor, get off the floor, put the shoes in that cupboard, put the toys in the toy room, blah, blah, blah. And I just like, you know, there you go. It's bam. It all just happens.

Tommy: I mean, my biggest problem is I would have to invoice because I don't have cash. I'd have to pay by card.

Ben: Mate, what about this one? Here's a good one. You know when you got all your coins? So I've got like jars of coins around the house. What are you going to do with those jars of coins? Right? I'm like, I don't want to deal with that. I'm sure I can deal with it, but so Zacky across the road, I go, "Zacky," he was deleting the Foxtel at the time, no joke, deleting the Foxtel at the time. And I said, "How you going, mate? What are you up to?" And he's like down at 14%, you know, so he's finishing it off. I said, "What are you doing after this?" He said, "I don't know, why?" I said, "Mate, come over here." Jodie's like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, and I just get all these coins. I was like, "Mate, listen, you're gonna take all these coins, you're gonna go and find out, take them to the bank or wherever you gotta take it to. I want it converted into cash." and you keep 20%. Now he went straight up to Norths Leagues, which is like the local club where you go up there, and because they've got poker machines and things like that, they've got a machine there, right? So he just went and— I didn't realise it was that easy, otherwise I would have done it myself. He just went and poured them all in there. I think it was something like $250 worth of coins, and he's just walked away, delivered $200 to Jodie and walked away with $50 and just gone, Jody was like, "That was quick." He goes, "Oh yeah, it was just, you know, there's a machine there. You just pour it into the machine." 'Cause I was like, "Mate, you're gonna have to go to the bank. You'll have to get your mum and dad to take you to the bank. Obviously there's bank hours. You'll have to coordinate it with school. There's no rush. You can do it during your school holidays." He was back an hour later just going, "There's your $200. I've got $50." What about your kids?

Tommy: How do you parent them? In a similar way?

Ben: No, not so much on the cash front just yet, but there'll be a time and place for that. Look, mate, I don't really have an approach with it. I do know this for any future dads out there. I did not read one book. I did not read one book. I was given certain books, even mates of mine who I love. I've got one of my best mates, Tommy Malone, is the boss of Wide World of Sports at Channel 9. He's a lovely bloke, father of 4 kids. One of his little girls, Nancy, is my goddaughter. So I love him. And he gave me one book. He goes, mate, he said, a lot of people are going to tell you to read a lot of books. He goes, they're all bullshit. Just read this one. I didn't read it. I didn't read it. I was like, mate. He goes, did you read it? I said, mate, I didn't. He goes, that's all right. I was like, mate, because you make it up as you go and you just discover it as you go and you use your creativity to try and kind of sort things out. And, you know, like, I love that element of it. Like, I remember I've got a godson called William who's a big boy now, but when he was a kid and he lived in the bush, I went to visit him and out at Condamine in Queensland. And he had an imaginary friend and he was like, um, and I'm trying to think of his imaginary friend's name. I think it was Freddy Ding Dong. So it was like everything was, "Oh, I'll cheque with Freddy Ding Dong and I'll talk to Freddy Ding Dong and Freddy Ding Dong will come and do it." And I was like, so I started talking about Freddy Ding Dong as well. I was like, "Hey, Will," and he would have been like 2 or 3. I was like, "Grab Freddy Ding Dong and we'll go out on the trampoline." And my mate pulled me aside, he goes, goes, hey mate, he goes, can you drop off the Freddy Ding Dong stuff? He goes, because we're trying to, we're trying to erase it. Like, you know, I was like, it's just an imaginary friend. He goes, yeah, I know, but he, mate, he just never stops talking about Freddy Ding Dong. So, so he goes, if you can just try and just don't, don't talk, let him talk about it, but just try not. I said, yeah, okay. I said, so what, you want him to, you don't want him to talk about Freddy Ding Dong anymore? He goes, well, mate, just, just over it. I was like, okay. So I like that thing of going, how do I kill off an imaginary friend? It's a challenge. I'm supposed to be on holidays. So I was like, hey Will, I said, do you want to meet Frankie Doodah? He goes, who's Frankie Doodah? I said, he's my mate. I said, he's out the back. Do you want to meet him? He goes, who is he? I said, he's my mate. He's out here. He goes, yeah. So we walk out there and I go— he goes, I'll bring Freddie Ding Dong. I'm like, okay. So I walk out there and I go I said, "There's Frankie Doodah." And I just pointed at a blank space. He goes, "There's no one there." I said, "Yeah, it's Frankie Doodah." He goes, "No." He goes, "There's no one there." And I was like, "Well, mate." And this sounds like I'm crushing his dreams. I said, "Okay, mate, you introduce me to Freddie Ding Dong and I'll introduce you to Frankie Doodah." And you could see this light just went on this kid's head. Never mentioned him again. But you know what the best thing is? They had a scarecrow competition at school where they had to make a scarecrow, and then when they had to give it a name, they're like, what are we going to call it? The parents are like, what are we going to call it? And he was like, Frankie Doodah. So my imaginary friend ended up being a scarecrow.

Josh: Have you ever thought about doing comedy? Stand-up?

Ben: Mate, I went to a, uh, what do you call it when people just jump up? Open mic. Open mic. I went to one in King's Cross when I would have been about 18. I saw people jump up there and I absolutely loved it. I admired them so much for being able to do that. I thought to myself, I want to do that one day, but it just scares the living daylights out of me. And then Dan Illich asked me recently, he was doing an Irrational Fear podcast about press freedom, and because I'd been threatened with a police raid at one point, he went, mate, you'd be perfect to come along to this. I got Ash Williams to help me a little bit. I said, I've got my idea for my 5 you had to do a 5-minute spiel. He goes, it doesn't have to be funny, but it'd help if it was. I was like, okay, so it's pretty funny. I thought, I'm gonna take this seriously. I prepared more for that than my own radio show. And I went and had 2 coffees with Ash and I said, this is what I'm thinking. He goes, yeah, it's good. But he just tweaked it a little bit. He goes, get into that sooner. And he goes, maybe throw away a comment about that. Like he kind of workshopped a little bit for me. And I didn't invite people along. I had 2 mates of mine from work, Zach Zach and Jake, who both said, "We'll come." Do you mean work as in 2GB?

Josh: 2GB, yeah, great.

Ben: Yeah, not the kids from the street. But yeah, Jake Lyall and Zach McLean, they were like, "Mate, are you really doing this?" I was like, "Yeah." And they're great blokes. And I was like, "Oh." And they said, "Do you want a bit of support?" And I actually needed, as part of the gag I was doing, I needed someone to bid on something. So I was like, "I need someone to start the bidding." So I was like, "Okay, you boys come along." But I deliberately didn't invite anyone else 'cause I thought if this, tanks. I just didn't want anyone to be there, even though it was being recorded and there were going to be, you know, a few hundred people there. And it went well. And I was like— and I know it went well because it just happened that way that I was like— but I honestly think it was probably because I thought I couldn't, mate. If I had just stood up there and thought, I'll just try and be funny, good luck. Like, forget about it. But I, I put a bit of thought into it and, you know, but, um, I don't know, I admire anyone who does that. Because I just find it frightening. So what's, what's the filter of life?

Josh: Like, all of these things— Hamish Blake talks about like creating experiences. Is that something that you really think about? Creating memories, I think, is more specifically. Are you constantly thinking about experiences and memories in life?

Ben: Oh, what I've done in recent times, and this comes under the Dan Illich thing of standing up and attempting to be funny for 5 minutes in front of people. I made a rule a few years ago that if I'm asked to do something that scares me, I say yes. And previously I hadn't done that. And the time it changed was actually being asked to host Ninja Warrior, because Ninja Warrior was not a show that I would ever have thought about hosting or auditioned to host or anything like that. I literally got a call one day from a girl called Karen McCaard at Channel 9, and Kaz called calls and says, hey, they want you to come in for a meeting. And I said, who's they? She goes, the boss is upstairs. And I was like, what about? She goes, oh, I can't tell you. And I was like, oh mate, this is obviously the phone call. Yeah, yeah. So I was like, hey listen, Karen— and I didn't know her— I was like, listen, just tell me what it is. I swear to God I will not tell anyone you've told me. I need to know what it is. She goes, alrighto, it's about Ninja Warrior. I said, what's Ninja Warrior? I'd never heard of it. She goes, it's a TV show. She goes, don't say that when you come in. So I Google it. I'm like looking at videos. I'm like, what do they want me to go on it? She goes, no, you dickhead. They want you to host it. Anyway, so I go and have the meeting. I remember saying to Jodie later on, I went, this isn't me. I'm a news guy. I'm news and current affairs and cover a bit of sport and whatever. I'm not like hosting a TV show of people jumping through obstacles. Obstacle courses and whatever. But I said to Jodie, I said, I think I need to say yes because it scares me a little bit. And also imagine if some other prick does it and it's a massive hit. And sure enough, it went nuts. And after that, and then Fitzy and Wipo said to me, can you come and do a rap on radio? Once again, doing a rap on radio. Oh mate. And I was like, yes. Dan Illic called, mate, can you do a thing? And I was like, I said, "Give me some time to think about it." I said, "But the answer's gonna be yes." He said, "So it's yes?" I said, "It's not yes now, but the answer is gonna be yes." 'Cause I just trained myself to go, you know, out of your comfort zone, say yes.

Josh: You know? I think your energy is so contagious. We were talking with Jase Hawkins the other day from— Love Jase and PJ. And yeah, in Melbourne you have a bunch of us who are constantly fanboying and fan-girling.

Ben: I'm trying to hijack Melbourne a little bit, I think. Well, with the Jase and PJ funny, I just stumbled upon their videos on Instagram and I was like, geez, these guys are funny. Yeah, these guys are really good. And I love that conversation you had with Jase. I love the detail you went into about— that's one of the things I like about your podcast, when you get into the detail on things. I warned Dickie about that. Yeah, ahead of Dickie's chat with you, I went, mate, they're not these are not guys who are just going to be going, so what have been your highlights? Yeah, yeah, you know, who's the best? We'll ask the chocolate bars.

Josh: We do ask about it.

Ben: Yeah, you want to know. I'm like, I like that about it. And I love the Jase thing, but I, I listened to Jason. I started watching Jason PJ on Instagram, and I started just commenting under their posts because I just thought these guys are funny. And I then spoke to someone at KISS in Sydney in management who I know. I called him. I was like, mate, I don't even know him that well. But I know him, I've got his number. So I just called him, I went, mate, what's the go with Jason PJ? He goes, why? I said, mate, I reckon they're hilarious. I reckon they are awesome. I haven't listened to them because I live in Sydney. I now have since then, but I was like, just based on what I see, I reckon there's something going on there big time. And he said to me, and I'm probably speaking out of school here, he goes, mate, I'm so glad you said that. He goes, because I went to New Zealand New Zealand and convinced them to come to Australia. And not everyone was on board with the idea because they were like, what do you mean? And he goes, mate, I see them as the future in a major, major way. So I don't know, I really like— and then so I've been filling in on the Today Show. It's funny the way things work out. And PJ's got a fight against Taylor Harris. Yeah. So of course I go into a storey meeting at the Today Show and say, I think we need to be covering this Taylor Harris fight in Melbourne with that radio host PJ. And they go, what's all that about? I go, you haven't heard about it? I said, it's huge, everyone's talking about it in Melbourne. You know, Taylor Harris, you know, AFL star and she's a boxer and PJ from Jason PJ on KISS. I said, let's get them in the studio, live in the radio studio. Let's get them dressed up in the gear. And they go, great idea, let's do it. So I love being able to, I then ring them and go, Let's go live. We're going live on today, you know, so, but it's only because they're good. Yeah, those guys came to the ACRAs. I don't know how they did this. So there's these radio awards every year called the ACRAs Awards, and they're actually, they're done quite well. I enjoy going to them more than going to the Logies because there's just something about them. It's, I don't know, it's a good vibe. And I think radio people aren't as big a wankers as TV.

Josh: Well, I think your intern Pete was saying that we should do the red carpet. You should. We should go.

Ben: You should. It's worth it. It's a really good night. And anyway, Last year, Kyle pulled out at the last minute. Kyle was supposed to be there and he didn't. Jason PJ turned around a skit where they pushed out onto the stage a hospital stretcher with a rather large human body underneath it, like on a drip. And they just did this, and I won't even attempt to rip off the skit. It was 10 out of 10. And that was another thing where I was like, look at these guys go. Yeah, I don't know, they just got it. There's something about PJ too. Yeah, there's something about PJ. She's just got this— I don't know what it is about her. She's got this X factor. No offence to Jase, don't take this personally, it's not a competition. Is it her hair? No, it's not the hair. It's just, I don't know, I just— she's got a really nice way about her where she's, you know, she's— I don't know, it's like that not too heavy, not too light, it's just right. I don't know what it is about it.

Josh: It's the timing. As well. She can come with her flaws and everything.

Tommy: I think she's more relatable. She's more of a normal person than the unattainable radio host.

Ben: Yeah, and she's like, she can be funny, she can be dry, she can be the person cracking the joke, she can be the butt of the joke.

Tommy: Self-deprecating helps as well, you know.

Ben: Yeah. Street Pug Jason Pejo, love her work.

Tommy: Channel 9, so you hosted it for 4 years? Yeah, full-time for 4 years. And so what are you doing back now?

Ben: Now I'm the fill-in. So basically, well, one of the fill-ins. When I got off doing the Today Show every morning, I went to— how good, like, you know, good bosses out there— David Gingell, who was the boss of Channel 9, who's married to Leila McKinnon, who people would know on Channel 9. I went to him and I went, mate, Jodie and I want to have kids. He goes, mate, it's awesome, you'll love it. He started telling me storeys and then started going into too much detail about some of the challenges you have. I said, yeah, too much information, Gingell, whatever. But he goes, mate, best thing you'll ever do. I said, mate, so I think I'm gonna wrap up at Today Show at the end of this year. And he goes, well, let's talk about at the end of the year. I said, no, no, mate, well, I said, we can talk about the end of the year, but I promise you, I said, I'm gonna do it. And because Jodie was saying to me, you were doing 3 and a half hours in the morning on TV, 3 hours in the afternoon on radio, where's the— there's no time in there for kids. So I was like, well, I said, oh, I'm gonna stop doing one of them. She was like, which one? I said, probably stop doing the Today Show. And she's like, oh, when did you decide that? I've been thinking about it for a while. I thought about it 10 seconds earlier. And then when I went and saw the boss, when it came to the crunch and I said, yeah, I'm gonna— he goes, what do you want to do? I said, well, mate, I've been here for like 15 years or something at Channel 9. If you want to use that money in another way, I totally get it. You can spend it somewhere else and I'll go and have a crack at something else. 'But I'm always going to have an association with a TV network.' So he goes, 'Mate, you're not going anywhere else.' He goes, 'You're a lifer. You're at Channel 9 for life.' And when he said that, it was a real— I was like, 'Really?' He goes, 'Yeah, mate.' He goes, 'You're a lifer. You're going nowhere.' So—

Josh: Nowhere in a positive way. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: He's telling others that you're going nowhere.

Ben: So it was like, 'What do you want to do? How often do you want to work?' I said, 'Mate, probably a day a week.' He goes, all right. So he— I thought he'll probably cut my salary, he'll probably, you know, cut it accordingly. I think he knocked about 25% off it. I was expecting that he'd slash 75%. And he said, mate, you've given us— how long you've been here, 15 years or something? He goes, mate, you've worked your ass off for us. He goes, mate, I'm not going to dud someone like you. He goes, and he goes, you've got a long future. I want you around here. I don't want you anywhere else. So Hugh Marks is now the boss of Channel 9. He did a similar thing with me when my last contract was up. I said, mate, I've now got couple of young kids. I want certainty. I want 5 years. He goes, mate, I've never done a 5-year contract before. I said, well, life's all about new experiences. Let's do 5 years. So I signed 5 years with 2GB and 5 years with Channel 9, and the deal I've got with them is when you need me, I'm there, but I'm not there every morning because, mate, I get to go to the cafe in the morning with Pearl and Freddie, and now another baby coming on the way, And the best time to hang out with kids is in the morning. Like in the afternoon they start to kind of, you know, like that's when— Oh, they get ratty. Oh, they get ratty. That's when I'm on the radio show, right? I'm doing the radio show, home in time to kiss them before they go to bed and whatever. And mate, the one thing people never tell you about being a dad or a parent, people will tell you it's rewarding and people will tell you all these different things. It's the best thing. It's nothing like having your own kids and whatever, or how hard it is. All of these dickheads tell you about how hard it is the whole time. And it can be hard. The one thing no one tells you about is how funny it is. It's one of the funniest things you will ever do in your entire life. You picture the funniest person you know and just imagine they're 10 times cuter, and that's actually—

Josh: Imagine like a little Lash Williams.

Ben: That's like, that's a kid. It's the funniest person you know, but they're tiny and they're cute, and that's it. Like, the stuff that they come out with and just the And that's the best. I just love the banter with my kids. And you know, Freddie, my oldest, is like a really well-behaved little kid. I can say to him, mate, this is the way it's working, and he just gets it. Yeah. Pearl is just like, forget about it. I'm like, because I've got a thing, I go, do you want consequences? That's like me talking tough. I go, you don't want consequences, do you? Freddie goes, no, no, no way, no consequences. Pearl goes, yeah, consequences. And I go, no, no, consequences are bad. Yeah, consequences, more consequences. I'm like, oh, this is not working on her. But mate, it's great fun, it's great fun. And I suppose that's the variety it's given me now at Channel 9 to be able to— there's not many companies out there these days, maybe there are, who are respectful enough of you as an individual. And I've also said to some of my bosses, I go, mate, I've seen too many blokes stuff it up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't really— I don't want to get a divorce. I don't want to have— like, nothing wrong with that, but I don't want it. That's not for me. When Jodie and I— when I popped the question to Jodie and she said yes, I said, I need to warn you something. I said, mate, I'm not into divorce. It's not my go. I was like, that's just not my thing. You need to know if we're going to do this, it's on, and it's not— that's it.

Josh: Did she know about the Nutribullet?

Ben: At that time. No, she didn't know about the early morning use of the NutriBullet, but it was like, you know, and I'm not perfect. I'm not saying I'm the perfect husband and Jodie will testify to that. I'm always learning along the way. But, and the great thing about Jodie, I'm getting a little bit, you know, like it's love song dedications here with Richard Mercer. But it's like when I was living in Redfern, I was living next door to a bunch of very creative blokes, Kirk Docker, who created "You Can't Ask That" on the ABC. Best show on the ABC. Lewis Hobber, who does Drive Time on Triple J. Tom Tilley, who does The Hack, was living there as well. Another guy, Scott Mitchell. Marty Smiley, who works on The Feed at SBS. All guys working in the media and interesting creative types. And they were a bit, you know, they didn't have the same commitments as me. I had a wife and baby on the way and whatever, and then I had a child living next door. But I'd go in next door just for fun. And I remember them one day, they were like, they're like, so mate, what's the go with Jodie? And I said, what do you mean? They're like, why is she so chilled? And I said, well, what do you mean? They were like, well, she doesn't bust your balls and she just kind of lets you do— she's got her own life, she's always out doing her own things, and she kind of lets you do whatever you want to do. I was like, well, because I married someone who— I didn't want to marry a ball breaker. And they're like, well mate, we know lots of people who've got ball breakers as wives who kind of, you know, suppress them and kind of break them. And then kind of, I was like, well, mate, don't do that. You know, the most important choice you make in life is who you're going to marry. And I've married well. So I suppose when I get the occasional, probably twice a year, I get a tickle up from Jodie, like with the NutriBullet at 4:00 AM, just going, mate. I mean, that's very low level. I know, but it's like, you know, she will occasionally say that. What's the biggest shit?

Josh: What's the, what's the most—

Ben: Well, look, you know, it's speaking out of school, but, but recently she said to me, um, because I stopped drinking during the week and then Friday become my drinking night, I started drinking a lot on Friday nights.

Tommy: Yeah, right here, this is a lot. Yeah, crime scene.

Ben: And then so Jodie was like, and here's me thinking I'm being so healthy. Yeah, because I'm like, I'm not drinking at home, I'm not drinking red wine, I'm not drinking beer Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, but then Friday I was making up for it like for the whole week that I wasn't. And so she did, she kind of just said to me, hey listen, she goes, you know, you, I want you to be able to do whatever you want, you know, and I understand you need to have a release on a Friday night and get a bit loose and I love that, that's great. She goes, but mate, then you're just hungover all weekend. And then she goes, and then I just, I start not really enjoying, you know what I mean, because she goes, then you just like, you're limping through the whole weekend. Is it because you're dehydrated? Yeah, I'm dehydrated, I'm tired, I'm like just thinking, boy, you know, like you kind of— and I—

Tommy: it's kids everywhere doing chores for you. Yeah, that's the thing.

Ben: I know, that's why I'm getting everyone else to do all the stuff I'm supposed to do. So, and it was, it was one of those things where it's like, mate, if you're lucky enough to have a great wife like I do, you've got to be prepared to— and also someone who's not going to nitpick about the freaking pizza you're ordering. Yeah. It's like, and I'm not saying this is just a woman thing, there are blokes out there who are ball breakers as well with their wives. So it's like when they do speak up and it's like, and you know, and I just declared straight up, I was like, mate, guilty, like 100%. I knew, because I knew, I was like, well yeah, but I'm really good Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. She was like, yeah, but then when you're with us, I'd rather you have a drink during the week rather than you just smash yourself on a Friday and kind of be walking around like a zombie Saturday. Was it a Sunday?

Josh: Was it like a Sunday evening that you had the discussion?

Ben: Like, was it— oh, I don't know, I don't know when it was. It was maybe, um, yeah, but I remember we went to the spare room for the conversation, so it was like, it was a— and here's another interesting thing too, like, I've just told you that story, which is a deeply personal thing, that how's Jodie going to react when she listens to this and knows that I've told this? She'll probably just understand it because she knows it's just me being me. But there's something, there's another element to that as well. When you work on radio or on TV and you just, you've got 3 hours to talk every afternoon and you find yourself telling storeys about, oh, Jodie had a crack at me because I used a Nutribullet and whatever, and Jodie will kind of go, I don't want to be content. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, no, no, you're my wife and I love you and it's good content. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's all, I'm trying to be honest, I'm being honest about you know, living and learning. And mate, I don't want to stuff things up to a degree where— and mate, there's nothing worse when the person you love, when people you love are disappointed in you. Mate, it's the worst.

Tommy: And hurts personally the most because if it was some rando, it was like, ah, but when your wife tells you—

Ben: oh mate, and it's like, and if they're angry with me, not as bad, but they're disappointed in you, it's like when your mum and dad, it's like, oh, you know, that disappointment. And it's like, oh mate, I don't want that.

Tommy: I love hearing the, the 5-year locked in. It, it, in my mind, gives— would give me a lot of comfort to be present. Whereas I think a lot of young people, creatives coming up, no clear future for making money to support themselves, even for their career, because they're just going, how can I get up?

Ben: Well, one thing I've, I've become big on recently, and I say this to a lot of the young people people who work around me, people are moving too quickly these days in their careers. We've become like, back in the old day, be like job for life. You did your job and that was your job for life.

Josh: Well, Richard's a perfect example of that.

Ben: But now it's gone to the other extreme where now it's like, no, you chop and change and you do a new job every 2 years. But what happens is, like, I know from my own experience in media, people get to 28 and they've gone, they've had 6 different jobs, and then they go, and then they're out. And then they go, I'm gonna go, and then they're out of the business. And I've seen a lot of young people who I've really loved working with who've ended up being chewed up and spat out at a really young age. So now I, I encourage people, I go, mate, like, you're a long time working. Like, people are working until their 60s, 70s, 80s. So it's like, just keep in mind in your 20s, particularly if you're on a good thing If you've got a good job, if you enjoy it, if you're not being dudged on the money front and it's going okay, my big thing now is once upon a time I'll be like, okay, when I started out every 2 years I need to get a new job, I need to move on, what's next, what's next? And I'm really encouraging people now just to go, mate, just slow down just a little bit, you know, because you've got a long time out there and I just reckon hitting the fast forward button button on life, sometimes I reckon you miss some of the good stuff.

Josh: Yeah, I love your perspective on life. I think like Tommy and I, uh, constantly referencing you. And, uh, do you want to join my cult?

Ben: I'm thinking of starting. Yeah, what will it be called? That's it, I've always wanted to start a cult. Yeah, it's called That's Crazy. I don't want to save the weird bit until the end, but yeah, Tom Tilley, who I mentioned from Triple J, when I met Tom, I was like All these guys, like, he'd be over at my house and then he'd go—

Josh: With all the kids and stuff?

Ben: No, not the kids. Tom would say to me, he goes— Well, you had 6 on the payroll.

Josh: Yeah, no, I know.

Ben: So Tom's a big kid, he's an adult. But Tom, this is quite weird, but he was— I've always been fascinated by cults, right? Love cults. No, no, not as in I want— Don't take it the wrong way. They do some evil things, but I'm like, I love the whole idea of cults. How do you start a cult? And why do people join cults? So anyway, Tom Tilly's over at my house one Friday night and he goes, "Oh mate," and we're all having a good time, everything's great. He goes, "Mate, there's a few legends who are looking for somewhere to party." And I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Like, just some legends, some mates of mine. Can they come over here or should we go next door to our place?" He goes, "Because there's about 8 of them." I said, "No, they can come here." So 8 people walk in the door. Okay, fine. Everyone's having a good time, having a drink, music, la la la. Anyway, about an hour later he goes, "Oh mate, there's more legends." looking for somewhere to party. He goes, but there's more of them, there's a big group of them. I said, how many? He goes, there's like 20 of them. And I was like, this is bullshit. I was like, yeah mate, bring them over here. And I was like, I want to see 20 people walk through the door. 20 people walk through our front door, and Jodie and I were like, what the hell? And I said to someone, I was like, I said to Tilly last night, I was like, mate, you could be a cult leader. And they said, you didn't actually say that to him, did you? I said, yeah. And they go, you know, he grew up in a cult. And I said no. So then I called him, I said, mate, come over, I need to talk to you about the cult. So then he told the story. It was like a— not a, you know, it was a very strict religious kind of situation where it was like if you questioned things, it was a big deal. And so I've always said to Tilly, one day we need to start our own. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so how can we help?

Ben: Well, we've got the catchphrase. Yeah, that's crazy. And the good thing about it is you're saying it about yourself before everyone else can say it, because usually with cults It's everyone else saying it's that crazy. But we're just admitting it. That's crazy. The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: I'm looking forward to these cakes.

Ben: These look amazing. Hey boys, thanks so much for coming along to Giovanni's Pizza. And I can tell you, I'm sure Marty would agree. If anyone mentions the Daily Talk Show here, is there a free garlic bread? Yeah. Done? He said yes. Anyone who comes to Giovanni's Pizza and mentions the Daily Talk Show, free garlic bread. And it's great garlic bread.

Tommy: What's amazing is this podcast will probably be online forever. So it's not Channel 9.

Ben: I'll be working here as an old man on a Friday night, folding my pizza boxes.

Tommy: Look for the bloke smoking out the front. No, that's not you.

Ben: That's poor old Livio. May he rest in peace. Ben, thanks so much, mate. Good on you, boys. Thanks so much. It's an absolute pleasure.

Josh: If you enjoyed the show, review us on Apple Podcasts. Otherwise we'll see you tomorrow, which will be Saturday. Have a good one. See you guys. See ya.