Geoff Jowett On Hobbies And Horses

Geoff: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 418, and back by popular demand, Jeff Dowett.

Geoff: Hello boys, great to be here.

Josh: All the way, all the way from Sydney.

Tommy: Yes, you've flown down just, just for this and also catching up with mate, your mate Harps.

Geoff: Harps, yes, it's been great to be here with you and him. Fantastic, it's like Christmas.

Tommy: My wife's only said to me recently, and when I said popular demand, I meant my wife She's calling the shots. So she wanted you back on. She'll get Jeff back on. She's been going through our back catalogue. 114, episode 114. A lot's changed.

Geoff: A lot's fucking changed. I've, you know, wanted to get on Oprah and I don't reckon it's as good as this. This is next level. And look at these blokes over there. You got the 3D designers, full team going on, production upstairs, Vegemite. It's just game on.

Josh: You eat a bit of Vegemite, don't you?

Geoff: Love it.

Tommy: Oh yeah, what's your—

Geoff: what do you like with it? What I like with it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but just on the spoon, perfect.

Tommy: You're an animal.

Josh: And that's a good, like, um, that's actually like a weight loss technique potentially if you fucking got the— if you're needing something to eat.

Geoff: Oh mate, it's probably good for sodium loading. It's predominantly just salt.

Tommy: But, uh, why do you do it? What is it?

Geoff: No, I don't do it all that often, mate, if I've just run out of bread. But I'll have— my big one is some Bergen soy and linseed. Peanut butter, cheese, Vegemite. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Awesome.

Tommy: Well, the cheese, I can say, you know, that for me that goes well with the Vegemite, but I haven't tried the peanut butter with it.

Josh: I'm not sure.

Tommy: I mean, you're just having a salt attack, which salt and fats, it does really go.

Josh: How bad is salt, do you think?

Geoff: Look, it's— well, okay, so it's, it's one of those things where dietitians will bang on about salt, but someone's eating 5,000 calories a day, so maybe we want to drop that to 2. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe 1,500 could be a good one. Give that a red-hot go before we just, just bash salt like that, you know.

Josh: Do you think there are many people overweight because they're eating too much salt? No.

Tommy: Yeah, it's like what we've said before, it's fruit.

Josh: Not fruit. Fruit's not your problem.

Tommy: Fruit is not your problem.

Geoff: I tell you, and this is a lot of the stuff I coach these days, it's binge eating. Like, we've jumped straight into the, the meaty stuff, but I was so obsessed with diet theory. At the end of the day, it's not diet theory. People ask me all the time, oh, intermittent fasting, is it good? Is this good? What about this? What, keto? Yeah, keto. What about keto? Yeah, if you're in radical concept, like stop what you're doing, drop tools, sit down, get a notepad. If you eat less energy than you burn you lose weight. Yeah, that's it. You burn more energy than you eat, you're going to lose weight. But if you eat more energy than you burn, you're going to get fat.

Josh: I mean, what's, what's the most obvious— what was that bang, by the way?

Geoff: I have no idea.

Mason: Something outside.

Geoff: I think someone got shot. Yeah, it sounded a bit like that. There might be a mugging.

Josh: Hopefully not.

Tommy: I'll cheque the cameras.

Josh: Uh, but there was a, um, uh, TJ is currently actually checking the cameras. The, um, what is the food that most people are eating and they're not aware that it's the reason why they're putting on weight?

Geoff: Well, I think if you ask me that 10 years ago, I'd talk about— you just mentioned fruit. Like, some people still think, I'm trying to lose weight, I'll eat a fruit salad and yogurt, which is loaded with sugar. When you eat sugar, you crave sugar. So the more sugar you eat, you're going to want more. So, and a lot of people do have a sweet tooth, so they have a bit, they want more. But at the end of the day, I think what people are neglecting is their binge eating patterns. So they go on a diet, inverted commas, and they're good all day, but then emotional triggers happen late at night, the danger zone as I call it. And between 8 and 10 PM, they've eaten 1,500 calories or more alone. So they rock up to their PT and little Johnny says, oh, hello Pam, how's your diet? Oh, very, very good. I don't know why I'm not losing weight, but, but, uh, it's the packet of Tim Tams every night and the ice cream. And, but they're medicating with food, so As some people know, I medicated with alcohol. Overweight people use food. It's, it's a Band-Aid. So until people can understand what they're doing, why they're doing it, when they're doing it, and have strategies around that, it doesn't matter whether it's keto, CSIRO, intermittent fasting— none of it works, like, because the calorie surplus kicks in because of the binging.

Tommy: So you've— I think it was over a year ago now that we had you on.

Geoff: I was sick as a dog too, remember? I come to Melbourne, I just got absolutely poleaxed.

Tommy: But you did a whole workshop, a weekend I rolled the sleeves up, mate. You're the—

Geoff: it's not a dress rehearsal, mate. We've got to rip in.

Tommy: It's Aussie Jeff. Aussie Jeff, he's not here to fuck around. But how much has changed in that year that we've seen you?

Geoff: Oh mate, heaps. So much. And look, I was, uh, back then I was, you know, on a good path and definitely made adjustments I needed to in my life, but it's evolved. And, and still then I was— even with what I was doing with the Jawett Method, it had to be bigger, it had to be more now, and it doesn't now. Now it is what it is, and my life is what it is, and I love my life now. So everything I do now is about enjoying now. It's not outcome-focused. So I've had a big shift from— I was always, a lot of people, myself included, was very outcome-focused. So I, a means to an end. Nothing's a means to an end now. Like, I'm not here to talk to you guys, talk to you guys, get on here and get new members. It doesn't bother— none of that interests me anymore. I do what I do. I try and be of service and I enjoy what I do and my life just works.

Tommy: Ambition, the word I feel like is, you know, bashed into us. You need ambition, it's the way you get success. And these are all buzzwords, right? Because there's no definition.

Josh: I mean, what's the opposite of ambition, right? I guess if you look at that, it can be pretty negative, like, yeah, what it sounds like is the ambition's not there.

Geoff: Well, it's a really good point that you bring up because I'm scratching my ear hole because it's a bit— but bear with me. I'm good now, thank you. Oh, that'd be amazing. Like, maybe later upstairs even. That'd be, that'd be incredible. I'll get my shirt off, the whole experience. I'll get it all off actually. I can't focus now, I'm that excited by outcome. That's outcome right there. But okay, so ambition. Yeah, because for me And a lot of people, they want to, they want to feel successful. So I think success is a feeling. It's not money in the bank, it's not businesses, but it's a feeling. And so when I get more, I call it the disease of more. When I get more, I'll be happy. Or when I, when I own my house, I'll be happy. When I live on the water, I'll be happy. It's, they want, it's a feeling.

Josh: So I moved to the suburbs, I'll be happy. That's the one thing that I guess you'll feel. Facing at the moment.

Tommy: But I'm not unhappy. I just feel like it will cater to something, my child, and have it like— I think there's some realities there, more space, a bunch of stuff that is not just in my head.

Josh: Yeah, there is some practical elements to it, right?

Geoff: Yeah. So yeah, absolutely, especially with a child and whatnot. But, you know, I live in a rented one-bedroom apartment with my two little dogs and I've never been happier. And there was a bloke who had the penthouse and the flash cars and all of that never happy, never content, never at peace. And now I've got that, and I drive a little Hyundai— what's it called? Hyundai Getz.

Tommy: From the Maserati to the Getz.

Geoff: Mate, $300 grand versus $3 grand, including GST.

Josh: What's the service cost on that? Like, what service?

Geoff: I found a bloke up the road, he did the whole thing for like $200 and threw in a pink slip. Winning champion. He knew I was a battler, he looked after me. But like, there's a— I just don't have a desire. I'm not trying to impress anyone anymore. And I'll tell you what, it's a wonderful place to live and you do your best work there because you don't have agendas and ulterior motives and you're not trying to climb a ladder and those sorts of things. So ambition, it's an interesting word for me. I know what I'm good at and where I can serve best and what I need to do each day to be my best. And that includes horses most days, you know, riding horses, being around them, uh, time with my little dogs. And otherwise, you can't pour from an empty cup. So what happens is everyone wants to build empires. I coach a lot of them, CEOs and high-level executives, and, and they've all got tonnes of dough. And they say, oh mate, uh, look, I just thought I'd give you a call. Um, I'm good, I'm good, but quote unquote, I'm just a bit flat. Everyone's a bit flat because I go, have you got a hobby? Nah. What do you do outside of work? Nothing. How many days a week do you work? 7. Well, okay, let's have maybe have a little look at that because somewhere along the line this ambition in today's world take— that takes over life. So they've got work and no life. Don't worry about work-life balance, there's no life. It's just bloody work the whole time. That was me for 15 years and I dead set was about to jump off the balcony. Like there's just nothing good there and you've got to get more and more and more. And then when they get more, they're more miserable because they're like, I thought that'd fix me, but it didn't, so I'm more miserable.

Josh: And so what could the alternative be to horses? What are some of the other things that people could do that gives them that same—

Geoff: Well, I— great question. I— one of my first coaching questions is that, like, have you got a hobby? No? All right, well, I want you to go away and have a think about what one could be. Some people paint, some people garden, some people fish.

Tommy: Is the rule you can't monetize it? Because I think that's what we end up doing. 100%.

Geoff: You want to monetize it. Like, and that's a great point. Like, fair dinkum. Like, social media, just, oh my lord. Like, you know, you gotta hustle, get the side hustle. Vaynerchuk's talking about the side hustle, and good on him, I'm not shitcanning him. But mate, that lifestyle, you can have it. Like, you got to do stuff where there's— you're not trying to make an earn. Yeah, you're not doing it for status. Like, if you're bouncing up and down on social media 700 times a day mate, good luck. I couldn't think of anything worse. I went from the bloke who wanted to be seen everywhere, I want to be seen fucking nowhere.

Josh: It seems like that's even changed or evolved in the last year since we saw it, because I've found joy.

Geoff: I hadn't found joy back then, to be honest. I was riding horses a little bit but not heaps, and I wasn't being like— I, most afternoons when I'm free, I'm down at the stables. I don't just ride, mate, I go down in the afternoon and I exercise the horses I washed them, I rugged them, I fed them. They're like my kids, fucking 20 of them. And I know everything about each and every one. I know which one's going to kick and bite, which is only one or two, by the way.

Tommy: What's their name?

Geoff: Nugget and Leticia.

Tommy: Oh, would have been a big birthday on August 1st.

Geoff: Massive, mate. We had a banda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We went to the strippers.

Mason: It was awesome.

Josh: Carrots.

Geoff: Just kidding. Just kidding. I'm only serious. And no, but like, I just— that bond with the horses, it's, it's, it's incredible. But I wasn't really that into it back then, so that's evolved and I've just had a lot more. I don't— I only do things now if I want to. I say no to heaps of stuff because it doesn't make me better. I don't enjoy it. I just do stuff I enjoy. And I've learned you don't need a whole heap of dough to be really happy. I had a shitload of dough and I was unhappy. So make money, great, and I'd like to make lots in time, but for very, very, very different reasons.

Tommy: Mike Tyson says he can't train, he can't box because it activates his ego.

Geoff: Great. Yeah.

Tommy: And is it the same for you when, like, for you to get back to a place where you're earning as much cash as you had? What did you— what was that business worth? 20?

Geoff: Uh, 40.

Tommy: 40 million at one point. I mean, to get back to that, is there an aversion inside because you think it will activate—

Geoff: I was going to get the jacket off. I'm sweating.

Josh: I can help you, buddy.

Geoff: Ever since the finger in the ear, I've got me, mate. I'm sweating up and But do you think it will ignite the old Jeffro? Okay, great question. The money won't, the objects will. So I'd never buy a super flash car again. I don't see any point.

Tommy: I'd rather— I want a Maserati. I saw one. I just love the purr of them. I've been thinking the last week. Yeah. How old are you? I'm 30.

Geoff: Yeah, perfect, mate. At 30, the best. 42, not for me. I don't want to be seen. I don't want to be noticed. I'm happy to just chip away. I don't— I hate all that stuff now. And you know, my phone, what's the time? I can tell the time there. The gold Rolex, red hot tip, same time. Yeah, save 50 grand, same time. Like status, status, status, status. Well, ever you're chasing status symbols unless you're an absolute car lover. Great. If you're a car lover, get a— get one of them. But a lot of people do it for status. And for me, if I made lots of dough again, mate, I'd rescue 50 horses. I'd have a rescue farm and 50 horses out the back. Done. And my dream now is all the horses that are at the stables, I'd love to home once they retire. Like, that's awesome. They're the best. But, and, uh, like, I don't— I just don't crave the limelight and all that stuff anymore.

Tommy: Um, Josh and I talked about, you know, the status, playing the status game. And I think we are all within a level of a status game.

Josh: Well, the status game is happening whether we like it or not, right? And people are applying status. They're constantly saying yay or nay based on status.

Geoff: Yeah, they are. And, and it's just an empty place. It's like a bottomless pit. You think you get more and you get that. And I'll give you an example. So let's— I don't know, people go to Europe for holidays and they get making a bit of dough and they rock up to the flash beach club and they get the really good cabana and they fucking— how good's life? And I've made it. Then their mate rocks up and gets the better one and then they're depressed. Status. No one cares. Like, biggest news flash ever, no one gives a flying fuck what car you drive, where you live, how much dough you got. No one gives a rat's ass. When I coach people, they think, you know, because I talk about buffer, you gotta have financial buffer. You can't come from a place of love if you can't pay the bills. If you're laying in bed at night going, fuck, I can't pay the mortgage, holy shit, what am I gonna do? How can you have love for people because you're scared. It's fear. So I say to people, all right, well, step one, have you, you know, let's look at where you're at. Have you got investment properties? Oh, I've got 7. Well, how about we sell a couple and then fucking you got heaps of dough to not be shitting yourself. I can't go backwards. But let's look at that. Like, so going backwards is selling 2 investment properties that no one else knows of. It's not Monopoly. Well, they're not at the hotel, they're not on the table. Everyone's going, how good are you? No one knows and no one cares. But people are like having a shit life because they're scared. Because they won't flog something that doesn't make them— like, it's just madness.

Josh: Is it your perspective from being financially fucked to then realise that these things don't matter?

Geoff: Absolutely. Because when you get to a place— I got dough in the bank, my food on the table, the lights are on, perfect. But you've got to get to a place— if you're ever going to be happy, and I think happy is a big part of the goal, you've got to realise that it's perfect now. And that, that— let's like dissect that. It's perfect now. And people watching or listening might be like, oh yeah, but— there's no buts. Have you got cancer? Are you gonna die? Can you pay the bills? It's perfect.

Tommy: Well, Josh and I think about where we want to go to, and we see that, and maybe it's— that's ambition. We have dreams or vision, like vision, all these things that I think we've been primed to consider on our pursuit. And I, I feel like we are happy in our situation, environment, the people we're around, but we also want something different. We want to progress.

Geoff: Let me just change the lens on that because I, one of my— I say change the lens, right? So you've got two young lads there, they're like, they're super focused, they've been looking at like— it's fucking awesome right now. You've got two lads here who believe what you do, in what you do, you're working. That's fucking perfect. This is where people fuck it up. They go, this is good, but no, this is fucking awesome now. This is all— now you'll never go to that until you people realise that it's really fucking good now. If you've got people here in here that work for you, with you, alongside you, that's awesome. They've bought into what you do collectively as a group. That's as good as it gets. It doesn't get better when there's 100 of them. It doesn't get better when a million people watch. That's the difference. And the irony of it is you get to that place and you probably will have a million viewers, but you don't need it and it's not better.

Josh: Yeah, I actually feel better.

Tommy: Do you actually feel better?

Josh: Thanks.

Geoff: That's true, mate.

Tommy: What do we—

Geoff: yeah, I mean, half a mil would be good. I mean, um, buy a few horses.

Josh: Having gratitude, uh, is that baked into your everyday practice?

Geoff: Yeah, absolutely. You gotta— when I wake up in the morning, like, what time do you wake up?

Tommy: Because we've seen you at coffee shops at 5:30, and I'm thinking, what fucking coffee shops are open?

Geoff: Well, it was open 24/7 But the King's Cross lockout laws fucked it, and now it's not open 24/7, so that's thrown a spanner in the works. But I found a joint that opens at 5, so I'm good, just up the road. But I coach people live at 6 AM in a group video, so I've got to be up and on and prepped and ready to go. And it's part of— and that makes me better because I get to serve that group first thing in the morning. So there's no, I'm a bit flat today. So I have to have a ritual and a routine. And when I get up, part of me in the first thing in the morning Mate, I know, you gotta know, you gotta be aware, you gotta know yourself. So I know I have to get up, brush my teeth, wash my face, and get out the door before my head starts just spinning.

Josh: How long is that from out of bed to out the door?

Geoff: Um, mate, it depends how much, how full my bladder is, but really, uh, mate, 5 minutes. Yeah, really?

Tommy: I think Josh has got a new routine, out of bed before 6. I think that's the key, get out of your apartment. Because I think the apartment's the safe space and you just— it's the comfortable. Get into some emails, I'll get some momentum there.

Geoff: Yeah, the first part of the day is for planning and for thinking, and it's your time. And you can't— like, if you wake up and you— if you wake up late and you sleep in, like, you're gone. You're going to be overwhelmed from the— if the minute you're in overwhelm, gone. Like, no, no problem solving, no creativity, nothing good came out of overwhelm. Like, step one, you got to get out of overwhelm. So I've got to get up start my day, do the things that I need to do, and then everything flows. You've got to be in flow. I say flow, not force. Most people are forcing outcome. People start a business, we have to be here by that date. We don't have to. I've got this 4-step, uh, I guess it's a technique: goal, deadline, plan, detach. So you have a goal with a deadline and a plan or a process, and then you've got to detach from the outcome. Because what happens is we get an outcome and it's not happening by that time, and fuck, it's no good, and this is shit, and fuck, fuck, fuck. You hire the wrong people, you make desperate choices, and you've got to be more fluid. But your plan might not be the plan ultimately. And yeah, goal, deadline, plan to touch. And I say 90% process, 10% outcome. So like the GPS in your car, you put the coordinates in and then hopefully you look at the road, otherwise you're fucked. And it sells everyone else because you're going to crash because you're not looking at the outcome. That's the outcome. The process is driving the car, the outcome is the GPS. And think about it, if there's a crash on the bridge and the GPS says there's a crash and you've got to go the long way and it takes 20 minutes more, you're not throwing your toys out of the cot, you just fucking go a different way. But in life, we haven't hit our targets yet, and bum bum, you know, you get into the office and you got the shits and this is fucked, and it's just a terrible way to live. And I guarantee you, you actually won't achieve more because energetically it's all wrong. There is no gratitude. So I get up, I sit on the end of the bed, and I just from maybe literally 30 seconds. I just breathe and I just, you know, look at my little dogs, 8 legs up in the air, William and Harry. How good are they going? And a little plug for them, they're the best. And then I get there and I'm up and I just think, this is— it's, it's easy for me to think that it's perfect because I'm safe and I'm loved. And mate, it's great, it's really fucking good where my life is. But it— but really nothing's changed commercially to when we spoke last.

Josh: And so what is that feeling when you're sitting at the end of the bed? Is it the same feeling that you get each day?

Geoff: It's just peace. I'm just at peace with life.

Josh: You wake up with peace, or is that something that from the pillow to the being up that you get to that point?

Geoff: No, when I wake up, I literally think, I've got to do this, I've got to do this. So I catch myself, my head just goes, uh, so I sit in the bed, I breathe, I think about that. Brush the teeth, wash the face, out the door. And then 100 metres up the street, I'm good. It's not— I'm not good when the eyes open. I just like, oh, fuck, I gotta do this. There's a bit of fear creeps in. Fear. I don't know why a lot of people seem to do that when they wake up in the morning. It's like, fuck. And then you just get going, you get moving, and you sit, have a coffee, do whatever you do in your routine. And then you just write it down what you gotta and pull the trigger on. Like, a lot of the executives that I coach, it's, it's that once we get them into that, they're like, it's actually okay, it's good. They're just in overwhelm, so they spin. They don't actually pull the trigger. Yeah, they're just catastrophizing what may or may not happen, but that's in your head because the only thing that's happening now is where you are. Like, so it comes down to how effective you are where you are. Most people are not— so everyone's busy, but are they effective? Are you at work or are you working? That makes massive difference. But you need hobbies and interests to be effective, otherwise you've got nothing else to do. Most people stay at work because they've got nothing else to do. Yeah, I I see it all the time. Fuck, I got no life, I'll just stay here. I'm not doing anything, but I'll stay here because I'm lonely. Because you're not doing anything else. So when you get other stuff in your life, when you walk in the door, bang. When I work, I work like I do more in 3 hours than I used to do in 10.

Tommy: Is there— I mean, the sort of hustle, the grind for a couple of years, I mean, could it be— I mean, it could be a belief, right, that I think what we're creating— I feel like we've gone through a piece where we— it was lots of friction to even create what we're doing. We love what we do, what we're doing, but it was also quite hard and it's still there in some respects, but it's just different now and we enjoy what we do. That's why we can show up. But I think I was thinking the other day, maybe it's like, look, we're so new to this. You could have a new business. You could have just started something where you need to work hard for a couple of years to get it.

Geoff: Sure.

Tommy: Past a point. Get that cash flow through the door. You know, so how do you reconcile what you say about the happiness, the hobbies, and having something other than work, and having something that you need to put everything into or it won't work?

Geoff: Well, a couple of things. I would challenge that with what I now know. I— early on in your career, and you blokes are young, yeah, first 10 years you got to bust your ass for sure. You got to work hard. No, you can't just poke at it, right? Sure, but I reckon I'm massive on energy, and if there's a fear around it, it's the wrong energy. So, and what we all do, uh, I definitely did it, we don't live within our means. So we want everything now, so we stretch ourselves financially, so it puts us under a lot of pressure. So we, we put too much pressure on new businesses to deliver too soon because we needed the bigger house, but really Do we? Like, I don't know, maybe we do, but I've got a one-better and I'm happy as a pig in shit. So it's, it's, you know, it's only me and the dogs, but you don't need as much as you think you do. So you've got to have financial buffer. That's really important. You know, that comes down to comparison and getting— comparison's the thief of joy, right? So we're all, oh, fuck, Fred's going, Fred's killing it and I'm shit.

Josh: And I looked, I thought there was someone there. You're so engaging.

Geoff: What's she gonna give your neighbors? Yeah, so, but this is the thing. So, you know, the grass is greener, and well, the fucking grass is green if you water it. You got to water your grass. Like, my life is good because I water my grass, but most people, they lay the grass, look over the fence, and there's Dave, not Fred, and Dave's— they're like, look at Dave's grass, fucking Dave, it's killing it, look at the grass. And turns out Dave bought worse grass than you, but he watered it, and you haven't watered yours because you're looking at his, so yours dies. That's what people do. They don't focus on their own stuff and I talk about 600 minutes. Let's say you work 10 hours a day, 600 minutes. How effective are you for the 600 minutes? Most people, not very. So if you're— but if you are, when you are on, you are on. You don't need to work as much, and then you've got more time for hobbies and whatnot. No one is— and that's—

Tommy: no one—

Geoff: well, none of us are studying string theory and going— he's, he's actually— okay, well, there you go. I tried to pick something that no one was studying, but fuck me dead, we've got a genius in the room, folks.

Mason: Yeah, trying.

Geoff: But none of— like, we take life a bit too seriously, I think. Like, you know, everyone in business, you know, ideas that change the world and fuck off. Come on, like, really? Like, we need to all just relax a little bit. Here's a radical concept: fucking be a good person and be kind. That might actually change the world. It might catch on. Like everyone, I'm going to start a business and it's going to change the world. Fucking relax. Yeah, it's ego.

Josh: It's Organised August, which is an opportunity for us all to get our shit organised.

Geoff: Oh wow.

Tommy: I tried to pitch in Action August.

Geoff: Is that off the back of Dry July? Yeah, leveraging the sobriety.

Josh: Exactly. So Organised August, clear mindset out of Dry July.

Geoff: Yeah, bang. Momentum.

Josh: What do you think is the most underleveraged thing that people could do that they could organise that they're going to see the best result from a happiness point of view.

Geoff: So I've got a coaching technique called the Daily Action Scorecard, which is interesting because you've got the Daily Talk Show, so blow me down, right?

Josh: And I'll say it would have gone well with Action August.

Tommy: Well, I, I was pushing for Action August over Organized August because you can be organised to go to the gym, but you don't action, action it.

Josh: Yeah, we decided on Organized and we have the, uh, Sonia Kruger, Ben Fordham.

Tommy: It's kind of taken off.

Josh: There's a lot of people who have been supporting.

Geoff: And now Jeff Jowett, just to drop my massive name in here. So daily action scorecard. So I say define yourself by your daily actions and integrity, not achievements or past achievements, because most— I coach a lot of real estate people and they're living in the past and what they've made and what they drive and what— like, forget it. Daily action. So what's a daily action scorecard? So you have 5 to 10 things, like the time you get up, the time you go to bed, the things that you've got to do in your day daily and you measure your performance on that, not what you've done in the past. So that's about action taking. And with integrity, you're always playing to an audience of one. So like, it's, you know what the right thing to do is.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, uh, Jocko Willink, discipline equals freedom.

Geoff: Absolutely. Yeah, mate, he's great. He's up at fucking bird's fart, 4 AM every day with his watch. He's taken a few too many pictures of his watch. I think we get the point now, don't we? Fuck, mate, we get it, champ. Maybe a few other posts, but yeah, but very, very good. But You know, it is that the discipline does create the freedom because you have to have a framework and you have to have high standards. It's not acceptable for me— well, I couldn't sleep in if I tried because I go to bed early. And I—

Josh: what time do you go to bed?

Geoff: Oh mate, 9 to 10. 9 to 10, up at 4:30, good as gold, because I don't drink or any of that stuff. Or sleep like a baby.

Josh: And so if you were to have something at 6 AM, for instance, like I think about like setting up my time and having all of these different sort of things dialled in. I then think about like my perfect day, which will be like walking into the office, doing all these different things. But on a production day, on a shoot day, it might be different where it's like I'm getting up, like I've got to be at the, you know, shoot before the sun rises, right? So I might be there at 6:30 or whatever. I find that as I start to dial in my habits. That's what's starting to rattle me now, is thinking about, oh no, there's these certain days that I'm not going to be able to do all these checkboxes. How do you deal with that?

Geoff: Okay, so one of the other things I coach is intense presence. So you have to be intensely present with where you are. So right now I'm here, I'm not at the horses, I'm not— I'm here, I'm here doing this with you. That's it. That's your reality. And the problem is that most people's reality is a bit warped because they're not focusing on where they are. Multitasking is a myth. You got to do the one thing at a time. You're on a podcast, you do the podcast. You're walking the dog, you walk the dog. Like, you got to do that thing. And that, that, that's, that's causes overwhelm and like all the stuff that you're getting. So routine's great, but you know, mine moves around a lot as well. That, that's fine, but you got to be where you are. Start where you stand, be where you are, be intensely present with what it is you're doing to the best of your ability right now, and then that will create a better next. You can't be like rattled and then get a good result.

Josh: So how do you prepare? I guess part of it is what I'm identifying anyway is like the— I was reading the GTD book and they talk about, uh, creating, like using your brain for creating things rather than holding information. We're fucking terrible at holding information.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And so part of it is when I have a shoot, the, the couple of days leading up, I'm thinking in my head of all the things I need to prepare for the shoot. Do you actually calendarize time if you've got something big on? How do you make sure that that stuff is out?

Geoff: Absolutely. So I've got a notepad that I carry around, and I'll just in the morning I write a list and things to do for the day. Google Docs, I've got a working list of things for the week. So you can't have that shit in your head because we're not a note-taking machine in our brain. You just got to dump it, dump it, dump it, empty it, empty it, and then get back to what you're doing.

Josh: How many clients do you think a lot of their overwhelm is based on trying to hold on to all of it? It's all of it.

Geoff: It's all of it. It's all— and then they're not doing any of it because they're in their head. Look, you've got to get out of your head and you've just got to get that onto a page and do the next thing. You can only do one thing at a time. Do it well. Next, next, next. And then that becomes a ritual and a habit and a standard and you get heaps more done. You put the highlighter through it as you go.

Josh: And so if I said to you, uh, Jeff, can you, um, print out this thing when you get home or whatever, how do you take that information so it's not in your head? What would the next step be for you to make sure that gets done?

Tommy: Buy a printer. Doesn't have one.

Geoff: Yeah, I haven't got a printer. That was a wild guess. But I do— hasn't got a cord. I lost the cord.

Josh: Really?

Geoff: That'd be even better.

Josh: Have you got a printer?

Tommy: We've got a printer that doesn't work. We can probably give you the cord.

Josh: Amazing. Do you want the cord?

Tommy: You probably can't take on the plane.

Josh: Are you doing— no, you'll be able to.

Tommy: Oh yeah, I guess, because it's—

Josh: because what about all laptops?

Geoff: Yeah, laptops. Yeah, I think cable. We could maybe bring it on the plane, but I—

Josh: not the whole—

Geoff: I write it down. I just write a list.

Josh: And where are you writing it down? Like, what is it? Have you got a list on here?

Geoff: Yeah, on here. Yeah, yeah. So I've got the Google Docs and it might just bang, or Notes. It's in— it's a— look, it's still not ideal, but it's Notes or it's Google Docs or it's on in the notepad. And I just, I just a few times a week just go back through it all.

Mason: Boom, boom, boom.

Tommy: So what— so that's your lifestyle there. What was the Jeff Rowe when there's 100 staff members and you're flying, you're making millions of dollars selling fucking protein bars and shakes and fitness programs.

Josh: Mate, it was fucking easy.

Tommy: What are you doing? What's that look like? What's that list all—

Geoff: Mate, it was nothing. It was all over the shop. It was, um—

Josh: Did you have people like you would have had an EA or something that was doing a lot of that shit?

Geoff: Yeah, so she'd come in and we'd map out the day.

Tommy: But I remember when you told me that you didn't know how to pay your phone bill because you'd literally had someone paying shit for you for so long.

Geoff: Well, I didn't. I remember I went into Coles one day and had those auto checkouts and I shit myself. The fuck, what's happened?

Tommy: Because you just have people doing shit.

Geoff: Yeah, and everyone doing everything for me, and you miss out on the good stuff. Like, that's life. Yeah, like people think they're above doing the basics. Like, life is the basics. You miss out on the good stuff, and because they're too important. No one's too important. No one's better than anyone. I'd much— to be honest, I'd much rather talk to the Uber driver than most CEOs because they're fucking egomaniacs. That's the reality, mate. And they've got this barrier. And because I've got some credibility—

Tommy: is it a mask? I mean, you're having to put that on in front of company.

Geoff: No, it's, it's a mask for themselves because there's generally a lot of other stuff going on that they haven't addressed and in, in their own life, and it's a feeling of less than. And they That they— their whole— their identity is their status. Their identity is their, their title. And mate, it's an empty place to live.

Tommy: Do you think if we sent Jeff Rowe back in our time machine that we have upstairs to the, to the body trim days, and you know what you know now after losing it all and being unhappy, do you reckon you could create something great? Do you reckon you could make it work within that company?

Geoff: I wouldn't want to.

Tommy: If you had to, you know, like it— the— what you know now, do you think you could walk in?

Geoff: What is it?

Josh: What is the reason for you not wanting to? What was—

Geoff: oh, I wouldn't want 100 staff. I wouldn't want all that, mate, anymore, mate. No way. I'd rather cut myself. Like, I, I, mate, I just don't want— I just don't want that, um, I just don't— it's a— I'm good friends with quite a few really big CEOs, and like, a few of them have said to me lately, mate— and they're in their 50s and 60s with public companies— and they're like, mate, you know, sometimes it can feel like a prison because you've got hundreds of staff and it, it's— it, it controls you if you're the chairman or the CEO.

Tommy: It's—

Mason: it—

Geoff: and a board and a public— like, it's a lot. I just, mate, I don't need it because I don't— I just don't want all that, um, I like the freedom to do what I do well. I don't— because back then I got 100 staff and I turn over $40 million fucking dollars. Who cares? I couldn't give a fuck.

Tommy: Who's doing it well? Who do you know personally that's a— or you might not even know him personally, but you, you— I mean, you've got to know him personally to really know.

Geoff: I'll tell you who's doing it well. The chairman of Century 21, which is real estate. Charles Tarby. I did a keynote for Century 21 a month or two ago up at Hamilton Island for all their franchisees. And here's a great story. So I rock up because the CEO, uh, he— I spoke at a thing and he was working there, he saw me speak, and then he got headhunted to go to Century 21. And, um, anyway, I rock up and this gentleman comes up to me, and he was in the, like, the, the audio booth at the back, the mixing booth for this event. And, uh, he rocks— he walks up, oh, Jeff Jowett, it's— mate, it's, it's an honor, it's an honor, it's so lovely to meet you, and thank you for taking the time to come up and talk to us. And mate, wow, I've followed your career. And I said, oh, thanks, mate, that's really nice. And like, how's your day and what's been happening? And I'm thinking it's the sound guy because he's in the friggin', you know, he's got the, you know, he's in the booth. Anyway, um, we had a nice little chat, and oh, that's really nice, and blah blah blah. And they they called me up to do my talk and that was the end of the conference. And they said, oh well, look, that was amazing, um, let's, uh, let's just hear from our chairman one more time to close the conference. It was fucking him, Santo.

Tommy: How did he get on stage?

Geoff: And I thought, how good is this bloke? And I knew all— I knew of him and his success, and he's in his mid-60s and he's like huge, huge, huge success. Anyway, um, we, we spoke a lot that night and then I get on the plane to go back from Hamilton Island and it's— the plane's full with all these franchisees and whatnot. And I got on relatively last. I was just waiting to get on. I was doing a bit of work, got on, go down midway. I expected to get on and see him in seat 1A, mate. Not in— fuck, I think, fucking, where is this bloke? Row 20, economy. Anyway, not only that, there's a seat next to him for me. And he saved me a seat. I sat next to him all the way back. We had a great chat. And, um, and he said, um, I said to him, I just got to give you a pat on the back. I said, mate, I thought you'd be up the front. And he goes, man, I'm not going to sit up the front when my team's at the back. I thought, fuck, wow, just humble. This bloke's so humble, like he's worth a lot of money and he's just feet on the ground and he just leads by example. He's in the trenches. And, and he said, mate, all those people in business, they all work for me. They're all, they're all these staff. One bloke owns his restaurant, he owns a golf course. That's my GM at the golf course, that, you know, that.

Mason: Yep.

Geoff: But mate, they're doing a good job, they can sit up the front. I'm thinking, fuck, that's leadership, that's what it's all about, you know. Most blokes have got the fucking Hublot on both hands, swinging the dick, 1A, 1B, 1C. Fucking look at me, you beauty, I've made it.

Tommy: 3D Deal is flying 1A to Sydney in a week's time, so, but But it wasn't my choice. Yeah, he's getting the pointy nose, pointy end experience.

Josh: He just owns the golf course. That's why.

Geoff: No, but that, that's a guy who's that, who does it well. And you speak to his franchisees at the conference and they're like, I said, I heard everyone's so humble here and grounded. And like, you have to be here, otherwise Charles boots you. He won't stand for it.

Josh: What's been the, uh, someone who you have, like, you've had your personal story, but has there been someone that you've actually seen go through, maybe not the same as you, but have gone from unhappy to really happy, and you've actually been able to see the incremental changes from an external perspective?

Geoff: Yeah, without giving myself a fucking backhanded plug, like a lot of the people that I coach, because they've got money and they were unhappy, and some of them that were struggling, um, like I've got a lady I coach in real estate and, and she was driving Ubers because she couldn't make it work. And now she's shooting the lights out, but she's got a hobby and she's, she's not defined by what she does. And so she's got a lot more, um, you've got a lot more, I guess, fuel in the tank and a lot more, um, peace. And, and then she gets more listings, sells more homes. And so I see people just do a 180 all the time with this stuff. But my, my coaching's not Sales 101, it's Life 101. Like, people think work and life, they're not mutually exclusive, they're hand in glove. And if people don't understand that, like a lot of people at the top end of town, their marriage is bust. There's all this like, how can you possibly find peace and happiness if this is busted? And you're like, it's, it's all or none. You got to work on all of it.

Josh: 3 Day Deal in '97. Uh, we got a question for Jeff.

Mason: I mean, he's got a lot of, uh, experience that he could, uh Yeah, I mean, you spoke earlier in the show about identifying personal Band-Aids that people use.

Geoff: Is that an accent?

Tommy: He's Canadian.

Geoff: I beg your pardon.

Tommy: Really? He's flown out to Australia to do an internship with Justin Timberlake.

Geoff: And who's this referring to?

Tommy: The blondie in the corner.

Josh: Boy's Life.

Geoff: Yeah, that was good. I've thrown them. They're gone, the lads. No, I'm still on it.

Mason: Justin Timberlake's a little—

Geoff: I'd say, where's Britney?

Mason: But identifying personal Band-Aids, I've been lucky enough that I've been able to identify Band-Aids that I've used in my own life that I've used to suppress whatever I've been feeling at that point in time, whether it's going down whatever path. But for the people who maybe don't realise that they're using a Band-Aid or they're using something to suppress internal pain or pain that they're feeling from the outside? Like, how would you go about at least attempting to identify?

Geoff: Sure, very good question. By the way, the thing like that, sure. So put them into categories like food, alcohol, drugs, gambling are the normal ones. And really it's the noise in your head, and it— you— the head gets busy and then you go to your drug of choice: food, alcohol, drugs, gambling. To escape, escape, eject, escape, eject, numb. They're numbing agents, external feel-goods medicating an internal pain because you're not addressing really this, the things that you need to, the elephant in the room. Like there's areas of your life that just aren't aligned. And, and, and now also it can, can be status and a feeling of not enough and I've got to do more. And a lot of that stuff, I think for me, came from when I was a kid and probably was never great at anything, so I thought, well, business, this is my chance to really be someone. And so it just, it started at a young age. If you— food, alcohol, drugs, gambling— if you're drinking every day, mate, that's not, that's not ideal. Like, I just need a drink. Well, that, that's numbing, that, that's, that's escaping. It's very common in Australia especially, like, I just need a drink. Well, that's probably not the long-term fix. And I, you know, breathing and, and really work learning how to be present without caving your head in. Like, most people can't sit by themselves for more than 2 minutes, they'll have a panic attack.

Josh: And so if you get rid of the Band-Aid, if you get rid of the alcohol or whatever that sort of suppressant is, how do you then deal with the reality?

Geoff: Well, that's when the real pain starts, because you normally use that thing for however many years, and then all of a sudden that's gone. So, you know, in AA they say you don't have a drinking problem, you've got a living problem, right? That's really what's going on. You're just using the booze, and people are using the food and whatnot. And that's when you've got to realise that feelings are not facts. They're not facts, they're feelings, and you've got to learn to sit with them. Like, um, I talk about feelings or thoughts are a bit like clouds in the sky. Like, you don't have to latch on and obsess, they just— they can let it go. They don't— you don't have to grab everyone that comes into you. That's— oh, I thought shit. Just let it go. Breathe, you know. Let it go, let it go. And, and not be so attached to every feeling or thought that you have, because that's what we, we tend to do, and that's fear-based.

Tommy: Pulling the band-aid off— alcohol, gambling, and what was the other—

Geoff: alcohol, drugs, gambling.

Tommy: So alcohol, drugs, and gambling, you can stop. And I'm not saying that the pain's not going to be bad, but something like food, you've got to eat. And so it's like saying it's the hardest, stop taking drugs, but you just have a little bit, 100%, each day to get through the day.

Geoff: Mate, it's the hardest. It's the hardest because, um, you do, you have to eat. So I talk about the danger zone, generally between 8 and 10 PM at night on the couch. Bang, that's when people are in the pantry. So you got to know your danger zone, you got to know your triggers. Like, we get triggered and then we drink, triggered, then we eat, triggered, then we drug. So what do you— why are you getting triggered? People, places, things. Like, what's triggering you? And you've got to have awareness around that and catch yourself before you bang. Because when you get triggered, it's almost like you're hypnotized. The next minute you're in a bottle of whiskey, think, fuck, how did that happen? Or Tim Tams or ice cream or what— or whatever it is. It's awareness. You've got to stay out in front of it and just catch yourself. And you feel that anxiety come over you, whoa, breathe. And you gotta, you gotta, I get people to replace a bad habit with a good. Like, you can't just rip out booze and sit there and twiddle your thumbs. Like, that's very, very freaking hard.

Josh: So then there's the, the very common band-aid, which is the phone.

Geoff: Yes.

Josh: You know, scrolling.

Geoff: Yep.

Josh: Endless scrolling. And maybe it's moving from the booze to spending hours.

Geoff: Yeah, it's another addiction.

Josh: Are these all, all the same? Like, are they all coming from the same place? And do they, are they treated the same way? Or Do you find that you're addicted to your phone?

Geoff: No, I'm pretty good because I've had to learn because I was so shit at all of it that I had to pull out the plug, put it back in, and just reset. Uh, that, uh, the gift of desperation, as they say. I had to just completely reboot. But yeah, that, that can be an addiction. So for me, I've got two little dogs, mate. I, you know, I get home and the phone goes over there. I look at it maybe once, you know, half an hour before bed, and that's finished. And then you— there I play with the dogs and we, you know, that's life. That's, you know, you walk the dogs at night. I walk down Victoria Street, I'm like, fucking, how good's my life? I've got these two little dogs, like, I'm present with them. And I use this analogy with the dogs that people hopefully will appreciate it. I call it put the stick down. Like, if anyone who's got dogs, they go to the park, they play with the stick, and when it's time to go, you put the stick down. And for 5 seconds, the dogs are like Fuck, you know, they got the shits, they want the stick. 5 seconds later, they, you know, fuck, what stick?

Josh: You don't let them keep the stick? I don't have a dog, but why can't they have a stick?

Geoff: If it's a real good stick, yes, but then they punch on at home.

Tommy: No, no, Stassi.

Geoff: No, no, no.

Josh: So once— I mean, you're not doing it at a national park, you can take the stick.

Geoff: No, no, it's a bit of a mess at home. But look, but they got balls and whatnot at home.

Josh: But I might be getting bogged down in the granular aspects of the stick.

Geoff: But, but what happens with you? Imagine if it was a human And, and we were told to put the stick down. We'd be filthy. We'd be like, I thought I got that stick, I got it off that other fucking dog, I punched on, I got it, he bit me, I got it, it's mine. And now this motherfucker who's meant to be my mate, my best friend, has taken my stick off me that I dead set nearly died to get. So you're filthy, you've got all this stuff going on, you get home, you're still stewing on it, you're dragging it in. Then the next day, heaven forbid, if you go back down to that park you want that stick. Where's that stick? You need that stick. So we can't drop things.

Josh: It's a story, right? It's a massive story, that story.

Geoff: And, and we're dragging the past into every present moment. So every present moment's not as good as— we've got to be playful with where we are. But most people aren't playful with where they are. They see it as a means to an end. Like, whatever we do today is a means to an end to get there. No, we're just here.

Josh: So how do we know what we should be focusing on in regards to, like, say, if if you're not happy about something at work, at what point do you say to the boss, nah, I disagree, and lean into that storey to hopefully get progress versus being more sort of detached?

Geoff: Sure. So you've got to, for starters, ask why do you disagree? Because a lot of the time it's ego. Yeah. Because I don't want to be told what to do, or I'm better than this. So you've got to be aware because that could very much be what it is, and that's what it was all the time for me.

Josh: Is ego ever good?

Geoff: In my opinion, no, not to find peace. Now, people, it gets you out of inertia and into momentum to do something. So maybe for a very short period of time it might be better than nothing, but you can't live that way.

Josh: Yeah, because I don't think we would start— have started this podcast without ego, but it's not something we want to live off, right?

Tommy: My ego says bullshit, fuck off.

Mason: Yeah.

Geoff: Look, it— I think it's— everybody's gonna have it, and we— I've all still got it, but I catch myself.

Tommy: Do you need ego to think that you have something to say that people want to hear?

Geoff: I think everyone's got something to say that people want to hear. That I honestly believe that. I think everybody— like, without getting way deep, mate, we've all, you know, billions of years ago, the Earth was the size of a pea and it expanded out. Like, there's a connectedness where no one has any more right to do more or be more. Like, there's, there's a, a greatness in everybody, but it's unlocking that. And that comes— definitely doesn't come out of ego, because that's comparison and looking at what someone else has got, and then you feel shit, and it's just a spiral. So I don't look at competitors. I don't have competitors. I just do what I do, and I do it my way, and I do it with it from a place of love and service. And mate, my life works. That works. The other way didn't work. So fuck, I'm happy. Rock and roll.

Josh: So if you're a freelancer and you're quoting on a job and you're trying to work out what to charge, a lot of times I guess there's ego involved. I'm worth this amount of money, which the ego can be helping your self-worth.

Tommy: Yeah, in some respects.

Josh: I mean, you could use ego to be like, you know, no, I am worth this.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And then you, you get that payment or you make it work. And so in some ways it can be— it can serve you in getting that, you know, payment from the client or whatever it is. So I wonder, like, I guess, how do you reframe that? How do you not— how do you get the outcome that you want without having to use ego to get there?

Geoff: Sure. So I do quite a lot of speaking, and if I really believe in the company and, and what it's about and the people, I'll do it for a discounted rate if they haven't got budget. And I won't— and I know they probably do, but they're just heckling. I don't even care. I don't give a fuck. I just think I don't care anymore. And you know, sometimes people don't pay their bills. I don't care. Like, it doesn't really— it doesn't bog me down in that, because then you're filthy on the world and fuck no.

Josh: I'm like, so that's the buffer, I guess. Like, when you have a buffer, that then allows you the luxury—

Geoff: that's right—

Josh: of not giving a fuck.

Tommy: Exactly.

Geoff: And you don't get caught up in it.

Tommy: How do you work out what your buffer is?

Geoff: Well, for me, I want to have, you know, I don't have huge living expenses, but I want to have sort of $20 grand in the bank just, you know, to be feeling safe.

Tommy: Have you paid yourself super over the years? Yeah, you have. Yeah, yeah. And so you would have been making a fair whack back in the day, which would have been a nice 9%.

Geoff: Yeah, yeah, there's a bit of super floating around somewhere.

Tommy: You're going to consolidate, consolidate, consolidate.

Geoff: But, but really it's just Again, if I made heaps of money tomorrow, I'd still drive the Hyundai Gets because I don't need a fucking— it does the job perfectly. Like, the minute we start going, oh, oh, nice new car would be nice, sure, if it doesn't eat into your buffer and you can easily afford it, go for gold. Like, I really think you don't— if we, if we're buying things on credit, you shouldn't be buying it. Like, as old school as that is, like, it's such a—

Tommy: so then what about that thought with business.

Geoff: I knew that was coming.

Tommy: You know, venture capitalists investing millions. Like, look at all the companies that are worth billions of dollars but are in debt.

Geoff: Yeah, so mate, I don't know a lot of people who are in that world that have got any level of happiness. Don't, just don't know quite a few of them, mate. And it's never enough. And you go, how you going? Oh, fuck, mate. It's going to get this deal over the line and then we're going to be good for this. And they get it over the line and then it's the next and the next and the next. And then it's a fucking— mate, you never get there. You're chasing rainbows. So, and it— but society is just so conditioned to that, that it's Matrix. People are just— they can't see. Like, for me, yeah, save, put a bit away for a rainy day. Like, my mum said that to me when I was 18 and I'm thinking, fucking rainy day, I'll just buy an umbrella. Fuck the rainy day. Better yet, I'll fucking get an umbrella factory, you know, metaphorically, and fucking flog them. Like, that's how my entrepreneurial brain worked. Like, those rules don't apply for me. That's old school. I'll just do this and I'll borrow here to make there. And don't know anyone who does it long term that finds any peace, happiness, joy. So peace, happiness, joy is right up there for me.

Josh: So if you're 30 years old and rather than 20K buffer, you're $20K the other way, you've got some debt.

Tommy: Mate, I'm right here.

Josh: How do you overcome that? What's the first steps? Because I guess to your point, you're talking about be in the present. So there's an acknowledgement in what you need to do and then work your way through it. But how would you, if people are listening right now and they're in that situation where they've got some debt, they know they're actually saying, I know I'd be happy if I had that buffer. I know, like, Jeff, that's exactly what all I want. What would you be saying to them?

Geoff: Well, you got to simplify your life. You just don't need as much as you think you do. Like, I haven't— mate, it's funny because I was just looking at my hands because they got all cuts all over from horses. Horses, mate.

Tommy: Like, you know, Anastasia, was she fucking beating you?

Geoff: No, just— oh mate, I don't even know. It's like fucking taken off a saddle, or it's just shit, you just cut your hands.

Tommy: And can you feel Josh's hands? They're the softest hands.

Geoff: Like, he's—

Tommy: wow, he's never done that. Days of work in his life.

Geoff: That's incredible.

Josh: It's crazy, isn't it? Beautiful.

Geoff: I can put my—

Josh: I can put my finger in your ear later too if you want. We could do it.

Geoff: We could get sides, and these blokes can get involved too. We won't talk about where their finger's gonna go.

Josh: Exactly. Especially JT, you watch out.

Geoff: So simplify your life. Stop keeping up with the Joneses. They're not happy either because they're keeping up with the Smiths. No, it's just the— it's madness.

Josh: What is the fact? Where are people spending money that they shouldn't be, do you think?

Geoff: Mate, I haven't bought new clothes for 2 years. And it's funny because undies, yes, socks, undies, they're recognized. Because, mate, I bought all these clothes back in the day. I got that many shoes and friggin' everything. That I thought, oh, they're shit. I went, I'm like, hang on, we're not— they're good.

Josh: These green New Balance shoes are amazing.

Geoff: They're old, they're like very old, but yeah, I just found them like a couple of months ago under the bed. I went, they'll do, thanks, they're great. Like, I'm not trying to win a fashion contest here, so they do the job, they're comfortable. I'm not down here for my looks or my dress sense. Like, it's just reality. We get caught up in all the bullshit. I got that much stuff. I've got probably 30 grand worth of friggin suits in my wardrobe because I have to have the top brands and the shoes and this and the fucking hell.

Tommy: Like, got any watches lying around?

Geoff: No, they're all gone. Um, you flogged them? Had to when I went tits up, mate. The liquidators came in, they didn't take my watches, but I had to flog them to fucking pay the bills. Yeah, well, to put— keep a roof over my head.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Did it surprise you how much all the shit that you bought actually went down in value?

Geoff: Well, the watches go up actually, so that's one good investment. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: So yeah, yeah, you're gonna have 50 grand to buy one in the first place.

Geoff: Yeah, the watches actually do go up, but, but, um, that, that aside, so you need other people who need Band-Aids to sell your Band-Aids to. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, but there's nothing wrong, but just don't let it consume you. Like, I'm not— don't let it— there's nothing wrong with a nice car and a nice watch, don't get me wrong, but don't make it your identity. You're not your car, you're not your watch. That's what I'm— you You buy the— people think, I'll get that Range Rover Sport, fuck, then I've made it. That you haven't. You'll still be empty in a month. You'll feel empty because it's a fucking car. It's metal. It hasn't got a soul. It's not— it's, it's a— it just gets you around. It's got 4 fucking wheels and an engine. Like, it's not— and, and you're going to realise as soon as you get that car, fuck, everyone's got one of these. It's not that good. And then you're going to be depressed.

Josh: We've been calling, um, there's something that we've coined in the office, the static carpet. Effect. And what the static carpet effect is, is, uh, we caught ourselves— we, we got this new big hard drive system, right? And we've been— storage has been a massive problem. And Seagate and QNAP came to the party and helped us, and we got this brand new server that was fucking amazing.

Geoff: Mickey Mouse.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. And the thing was, as soon as, as we're setting that up, I walked over to do something and I touched it and I got a little zap. And it was from this static in the carpet. I'm like, fuck, we need to fix the carpet. And it was funny that as you get the thing that you think you need, there's always the fucking static carpet. There's always gonna be something else.

Geoff: I was wondering where you were going with that. We're gonna have to cut this out. Where's he going? Jesus, he's gonna have a nap, but he's back. I've got it. Sorry, carry on, Justin Timberlake. Right, so sorry, Josh, that was a bit rough. No, no, I love you, you're a beautiful man. Uh, but, but again, that's what happens because you're going to get that whatever it is, and then you're going to ding it or scratch a rim. Yeah, fucking rim. Fucking, now it's $500. Fucking, who put that gutter there?

Josh: Like, you're gonna be—

Geoff: you're gonna be— you're gonna find, whatever you're in, that you're just gonna— the next problem, the next problem, the next. And you see people all the time that are flying high, and you go, mate, you're going good. Oh mate, fucking hell, it's tough. Like, you know, I challenge anyone to find someone who lives that way and they're just going, oh, life's amazing and I'm blessed, because they're not going to feel that. They're going to be like, fuck, it's hard and I deserve more.

Tommy: So if someone's listened to Aussie Jeff, who might be an ambitious young person, they sense that you've got a bleak outlook for people that are in that high performance space that is conducive to high stress, high anxiety, lots of responsibility, but that's what they kind of think they want to be doing.

Geoff: So just— so I, I coach a lot of executives on high performance But we do it through process, not outcome.

Tommy: Okay.

Geoff: Right. So I sit with boards because I've done this, like I know it. And, and I, and I help with strategy. I drive strategy. I sit around tables and I, and I drive the strategy for their business, big businesses to make these decisions to grow. But so that growth is good, like we want to make money. I'm not demonising that at all. I want to make a fuckload so more animals saved, more horses, more fucking earth.

Josh: How much does a horse cost?

Geoff: Oh mate, ex-racehorses you get for free. Yeah, yeah, end up in the knackery, mate.

Tommy: You need a place for them.

Geoff: Yeah, you need about $20 mil to buy a farm, but you know, we'll work on that. But the point is, is that— so now I'm not— and I love the strategy piece and building businesses, and I love going into businesses and actually— because giving people, mate, actually— because most people don't know what the fuck their job is in a business. And then the boss goes, this guy's got no fucking idea, where's his job description? Haven't got one. Well, you've got no fucking idea. How do you expect this bloke to perform at any level of competency if they're not accountable to a job description, measured? JD, like, you know, get the mirror out. So I love doing that sort of stuff too. I like, I like building the machine. I like, I like building businesses, but it doesn't make— it's not your identity. It doesn't define you. It doesn't make you better than anyone else just because it says CEO. Like, so you just get rid of all that bullshit and you perform at a higher level. Process, not outcome. Not people are looking at their revenue going, we've got to do more. Well, looking at your revenue is not going to make you do more. It's like an overweight person weighs themselves every day. That does fuck all for weight loss. It's 2 steps on your pedometer, on, off, and you're going to cave your head in because you haven't lost any weight. So you'll starve yourself, then you'll get really hungry and you'll binge and you'll put on more weight because you're in outcome, not process. It's process. So people, we're taught goal setting, but what's the process under the goal? I coach golf pros now as well as a hobby at my golf club, like on, on high performance. I love— it's really what I am, a high-performance mindset coach to get people to perform at their best level. The byproduct is you make heaps more money. The byproduct is you build a business. But that's— that's— it's— it's— there's a lead measure and a lag measure. Lead is process, lag is outcome. But people live in outcome. More money, more this, more that. You know, what's the process under the goal? We're not taught how— vision boards, rub my belly button and fucking manifest, like turn it up. People charge $30 grand to go to a manifestation course. Bullshit. Like, turn it up. What's under the goal? What is the process under the goal? What, what is your daily action there? Like, how do you build a village? One brick at a time. And you lay that brick to the best of your ability. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. You get a wall, a house, a village. But we're just focused over here on the outcome. That's just overwhelm. When you focus on the result, you get overwhelmed.

Josh: Is it because the lag is actually easier to describe than the lead.

Geoff: And people don't understand how to do it.

Tommy: They don't.

Geoff: They actually don't. I had to— they don't teach this. They don't teach this sort of process outcome focus, and everyone wants it yesterday. And by the way, nothing good happens fast. So, you know, especially younger generations, you know, you guys and younger, I want to be the CEO yesterday. Well, that would be the worst fucking thing you can ever do because you're not ready. Like, you know, it's 5 to 10 years, and then think you got to put your head down and do it. We want it all too quick. That was why I fucked up about 700 times. I want it all too quick.

Josh: How do we prioritize? How do we know whether we've got to put the brick here or the fabric there?

Geoff: Well, what you do is you work out what your end goal is and you reverse engineer it. So it's sort of, mate, it's, it's where do I want to be? What does success— okay, what does success look like? I don't know, is that generally the answer? What is it? Can you define what success looks like? No one ever can. So that's, that's question one. What are your measured success markers? No idea. That's number two. Where in 5 years' time, 10 years' time? Now it can change But now what does it look like? And then you work back from that. So business— I coach a guy, you know, he's the number one real estate agent in Australia 3 years in a row, number one. I coach him. Like, these guys are the best of the best of the best, and they come to me because it's not fucking bullshit. I spoke at a conference and he rang me, he goes, I don't call people, I'm calling you. That was awesome. Because it's real. I've been there. I'm not a coach. I want to be a coach. I lived it, fucked it up, built it, you know. And, and now I fell into coaching because I've actually done it, right? So With his business, we're working out where we want to go. What does that look like to build our life? Not just the business. So he doesn't have a stroke and die, right? So these, these, and then you, okay, this is what we're turning over now. We want to do this. How many chess pieces do we need? Because you can't just do it all yourself. So how many more you need? Another, another assistant. You need a head of operations. You need all these things to build the machine. So, but people have just got a revenue target and they don't understand the machine. You can't get the revenue without the machine.

Josh: Yeah. What does your expenses look like? You know, you talk about controlling that sort of stuff, mate.

Geoff: My biggest expense would be horses, mate. Bankruptcy starter kit: horse. Horses, golf club membership. What else, mate? Fuck, there's not much.

Josh: What do you do food-wise? What do you—

Geoff: well, because a mate of mine's got a meal service.

Josh: What is it called?

Geoff: foodforfitness.com.au. Massive plug. Carlo, send me the good stuff.

Tommy: Are they Melbourne-based? They're coming to Melbourne.

Geoff: Well, what is it called?

Josh: What's it called again?

Geoff: Food for Fitness. I'll hook you guys up. Foodforfitness.com.au.

Josh: Foodforfitness.com.au.

Tommy: Couple of angry drunks over there.

Josh: Do they do like high protein?

Geoff: Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, it is. Oh, I'm not just giving him a plug, it is actually really good. And so he gives me my meals each week and I hate cooking, so I do that. And mate, you order them online and they rock up on a Sunday morning and bang. And it's not frozen rubbish, it's really— because he was a bodybuilder but his family was in um, food and restaurants and whatnot. So they've got— he's got this fucking massive industrial kitchen where— not a warehouse, full-blown kitchen. And it's like 100— it's like fucking Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I went there and had a look and there's like 100 people out the back and they've all got the same outfits on, so they look like Oompa Loompas because they've got the same getup. They don't— well, not aesthetically like them, they're not orange. No, some had had a spray tan from the night before with fucking bobs or whatever and fucking be funny. Gene Wilder, God bless him, rest in peace. But, um, um, but, but yeah, so for me, food, nothing. Um, horses, golf, and mate, that's it. I'm gonna buy a new set of golf clubs. The clubs cost more than the car. Rock and roll. Like, it's, it's— I just keep it mega lean, mega, mega lean. And do I really need that?

Tommy: No.

Geoff: So you can live on a pretty— yeah, you can live really lean and I used to spend probably $300 a night on dinner.

Josh: What the fuck are you eating, mate?

Geoff: I just— because I'd eat at Rockpool and China Doll and Otto and every night, mate, easy. So I was probably spending $3,000 a week on dinner. Um, probably a few other spends there as well, but we won't dig into them.

Tommy: Yeah, after dinner treats.

Geoff: After dinner treats. Yeah, desserts like gelato.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Geoff: But yeah, more—

Tommy: yeah. They'll still swear.

Geoff: What rating is this thing? Family friendly?

Josh: Is this— No, that's fine.

Geoff: So what— my horse is called Candy, and I, I used to say, you know, a few years ago, the only candies I knew slid down a pole. Hey, they definitely didn't have hoofs and eat hay. So it's a very different lifestyle now. And that other lifestyle where they slid down poles, let me tell you, mate, there was no joy there. And it— and I'm not an isolated case because a lot of high-flying people in Sydney making big, big money, they, mate, I've had dozens, not one or two, dozens message me and I coach them because they've got all the money in the world and they're fucking depressed. Like, this is not a theory, this is real. If you chase that life, you will be miserable, I guarantee it. Now, going to the strippers once on your bucks night, very different, but 4 nights a week, not ideal. Like, I'm, you know, I'm— you got to be realistic about this. But, but, you know, that lifestyle It's Wolf of Wall Street. That was my life. And really, because you get consumed by it and then you think you, you know, you can do— different rules apply and you can do whatever you want. Fucking different rules don't apply, not in the happiness equation.

Tommy: You're just a human at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Living in an empty vessel, mate.

Geoff: You really, really are, Tommy, mate. And it's sad. And I see it all the time. I had a bloke reach out to me Fuck, a couple of weeks ago, mate, big-time property developer and like 10 grand a week cocaine, 10 grand a week, just miserable, mate. Miserable. Like, and, and it— you think that you've like— and the only problem, the, the really hard thing is people that are listening that aren't there, they can't relate because they're like, but fuck, I'd love to try. But if everybody who's tried ends up in the same place, they can't all be wrong is what I'm trying to say, right? No one who's there with 10 grand of coke up their snot box every week and everything that goes with that is happy. So how can you be? You've just got to maybe, you know, success leaves clues, right?

Josh: Everyone assumes that they're going to be the exception.

Geoff: Yeah. And I put posts up and sometimes, you know, I talk about this and, and you see people and they go, I'm sure I'd be happy with lots of money. Like, they just, they, it's just not going in. It's just like, I'm sure I'd be like, you don't get it. And I'm not judging because I didn't get it either. But you get a little bit of success and fame and status and whatnot, profile. And mate, I tell you what, it's a, it's a green monster. Like Daniel McPherson, Aussie actor, is a good friend of mine. And Dan, we speak quite a bit. He's in Croatia at the minute with his, with his show that he does. And like Dan—

Tommy: Task Force? Is that Task Force? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Sully who was on that as well.

Geoff: Yeah. And Dan hates like, you know, fame. We've talked about this when I've interviewed him in my Jowett Method group, and like, fame— and mate, he hates— like, for him, it's, it's a necessary evil. Not an evil, but it's just that, mate, he goes, Geoffro, mate, it goes with the job. But like, he didn't get into it to have that. And a lot of people who have— like, Jim Carrey says, I wish everybody could have all the money in the world and be famous so they realise that's not the thing. Yeah, so does Cameron Diaz. Dan McPherson says that, like, none of that does it. It just doesn't do it. We think it does because we haven't had it, and we look at these people at the Logies or the Oscars and we're, mate, they're all in fucking rehab 2 years later. Maybe not the Logies, but definitely the Oscars, or fucking probably maybe the Logies as well. Like, you've got to do it for the right reasons. And Matthew McConaughey made awesome video where he talks about recently, not his Oscar speech, but he talks about how when he was early on in his career, he did movies to, to gain respect and recognition from his peers. That was why he was doing it. He didn't love making the movie, he did it for that. And he never really had the blockbusters. I'm not sure what happened, but somewhere along the line he fell in love with the process of making the movie and being on set and loving the filmmaking. Mate, fast forward, Best Actor, best this, best boom, shot the lights out. When he stopped caring about the recognition and the respect and the outcome and he stayed in the process.

Josh: Jeff, you're always a great reminder, and I guess that's a service that you're providing, right? Like, yeah, every time you come on here, I think it's a great perspective that we can all take, even if it's just a small element. Yeah, when you're getting up in the morning or the choices that you're making.

Geoff: And that's the thing, like, you know, I say, how can I serve, not what can I get. Like, that— we need connection, we need purpose, we need to be doing stuff like this in our way, in our own world, whether it's jumping here or something in your own community. Like, you got to be doing this. This is the— this is part of the human condition. Like, we've got to be being of service. And a lot of people on the road to the top, they just dismiss it.

Josh: Definitely worth following Jeff on Instagram as well. We've posted the photo of us from today's episode. Uh, feel free to screen grab the app or take a photo if you're watching the video and put it up on Instagram Stories.

Geoff: Otherwise, Justin Timberlake, he's actually following me now. JT.

Josh: Perfect. It's a daily talk show. We'll see tomorrow, guys.

Geoff: See you guys. Bye.