Change Of Plans

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Josh: Frostface!

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 251.

Tommy: Happy New Year!

Josh: It's 2019.

Tommy: This is when you actually say Happy New Year. I've seen people been saying it for the last 3 days. Happy Happy New Year.

Josh: I was getting a bit of Merry Christmas between the 25th and sort of the 31st.

Tommy: I guess it's the festive season. It's still, it's very festive out today. There is so many people out and about. Yeah, it's lovely. I've been to the beach.

Josh: Which beach?

Tommy: I went to Sandringham Beach.

Josh: What are they known for? Water, sand.

Tommy: Sand and water. And less Lebanese gangs fighting. That's down in Park Pakhta or Edith Vale.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: There's been heaps of fights on the foreshore.

Josh: Why'd you have to make it racial?

Tommy: Well, that's what the news said. Lebanese gangs are fighting one another.

Josh: Why are they fighting?

Tommy: I don't know, they, uh, probably just—

Josh: they've got Lebanese food, they've got nothing to be fighting about, they've got the best food. Is it Lebanese?

Tommy: It's young, young ethnic dudes and they're just profiling them on the news to make it have a bit more cut-through, which it did. It rattled you to your core.

Josh: Look at you. Well, it's better than the— it's a good change from the African gangs.

Tommy: Well, no, I was going to get to them. They, they, um, on the same day in St Kilda, there was a few punch-ups.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, some kid was rolled for his phone. It's very—

Josh: it's like, it's very much like Melbourne.

Tommy: There's been fights at the beach for a long time.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And they just like to use a few labels to make them a bit more—

Josh: have a bit of cut-through.

Tommy: Everybody cuts through.

Josh: Is this happening beyond Melbourne?

Tommy: Do you, like, I wonder, look at the Bra Boys, Maroubra, um, up in Sydney.

Josh: Was that the Cronulla riots?

Tommy: No, uh, yeah, the Bra Boys, there were some that were part of that. But look, like, a bunch of bogan Aussies punching on at the beach. Yeah, that's just the standard.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. This is something a little bit different.

Tommy: Yeah, but so yeah, there was quite a few jet skis, lots of, yeah, good vibe.

Josh: Wonder if they were insured or not.

Tommy: Definitely not. I was a bit hungover this morning. We were planning, so this is, we haven't even spoken about New Year's Eve. My plan was great, we'll get home. Amy and I was about 6:30, had dropped Bodhi off at mum and dad's, so he was having a sleepover. So it was just the mum and dad at home. And that sounded weird, but we had a night off is what I'm saying. And we were like, okay, let's go down and just get a beer the pub.

Josh: Is Amy a beer drinker?

Tommy: Oh, she'd drink cider or wine, but it's like saying let's go for a coffee when you're a hot chocolate guy. You're not going to just say— I mean, going for a cider is pretty popular now.

Josh: Okay, so she had a cider.

Tommy: Well, we didn't even make it to the pub. So what happened was—

Josh: but you have a hangover? Um, yeah, I'm interested.

Tommy: So goon bags, we get 80 metres from my house and I bumped into Sheriff Longmire.

Josh: Oh really?

Tommy: From the Netflix show Longmire. He's a mate of mine and I was like, I call him Sheriff now, he loves it.

Josh: I'm like, Sheriff!

Tommy: He's like, oh, and he does his American accent. He's a full Aussie but does his American accent, which I love. He just sort of slips in and out and he's like, oh, what are you guys doing? What are you up to? Let's go, we're going to the pub. He's like, nah. 'Come in, we're having a party.' And so we ended up—

Josh: This sounds like my nightmare.

Tommy: It was, no, it was fucking so cool because it was one of those nights where we had, we literally would, we would have been in bed by probably 10.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And we got home at 2:30 AM.

Josh: So how do you, so you're very, is Amy of the same school as you? She's pretty happy just to go into social situations.

Tommy: See, here's the thing, I actually was wanting to go home and Amy wanted to keep staying.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: I was ready to go after 12. I stopped drinking at 11:58 because I'm not drinking, and so I didn't have a drink after 12, but Amy wanted to hang on. And so it was this, um, I think the best thing about it was it was unplanned, and Sheriff is a fucking absolute legend, and he brought us in. He's so hospitable. We, we brought nothing. We didn't even know we're going. The barbecue was going, there's beers flowing.

Josh: How many people?

Tommy: Oh, there was, it was probably only 15 of us. And so we met these lovely, like, some people who own production companies, another actor from a huge show was there, um, over in the States, an Aussie dude.

Josh: Yeah, interesting.

Tommy: Yeah, so just a cool group of people. The— Amy said it was like such an eclectic bunch, but everyone just got along so well, and it was just fucking one of the best New Years.

Josh: See, in that situation, I don't know whether I would have said yes. Well, do you think I would have said yes?

Tommy: Uh, I think if you had had the relationship with— I think it's like cool serendipitous relationship that Rob and I have got, and Amy's formed because we're mates with his, you know, wife, and they've got a little kid. And so it's, it's, it's very communal in that area. So it just felt really like—

Josh: so it'd be like a mate saying, yeah, come over. I wonder—

Tommy: we literally didn't know what was actually happening. We got there and it was like Super relaxed. Like, we walked out the back.

Josh: So did you go straight from— you were walking and then you entered their place?

Tommy: Rob said to me, I love it that you didn't even get past the park. We literally didn't even get past the park and we were there till 2:30. It was fun. I've had some— so many good nights where it's like you haven't planned, you've had completely different plans and you've been okay to throw them out the window.

Josh: And so what's the introduction? Nothing. I mean, hey, so there's, there's say 15 people.

Tommy: Well, we got there, there was maybe 5 other people there already, and they're all sitting around in like sort of chairs. Yeah, we just went out into the backyard. There was a table, barbecue, and we just sort of jumped in, got a beer.

Josh: What do you feel like you need to lead with? Do you have sort of icebreakers in this scenario? So what's everyone— I think I would be, what's been going on, guys?

Tommy: So most people, most of them didn't know each other.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: And so it was like a new a new couple would come and be like, hey guys, this is Lisa and Rob, and everyone's sort of saying hello. And I'm sitting next to a guy and I just spark up a conversation with him, and then I sparked up a conversation with this other dude.

Josh: And so Amy then just—

Tommy: she was sitting next to me, did the same.

Josh: She just does the same sort of thing.

Tommy: Yeah. And it does— here's the thing, it doesn't always work like that. It doesn't always feel good, but sometimes you just vibe with everybody.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And everyone was super lovely. I think for the fact that most people didn't know what this thing was gonna be, that it actually became a really great night because of that.

Josh: Well, I'm not much of a mixer of friendship groups. That's why like Bri and I, when we talk about weddings and stuff, it's like, it'd be hard trying to mix all the groups up together.

Tommy: Well, they're all a lot older than us. Like I would have been the youngest adult there. There was kids.

Josh: Is Amy older than you?

Tommy: She's 30. Yeah, she's 2 years older than me. But it was great because they, you know, all these people sort of successful in their own right. They're just, they're just, I guess, what we will probably be in 10 years of doing the shit that we're doing. When you find your mark, you know, a builder who's built this amazing house near us, like, just chatting to him, he's a fucking old surfer, like, so nice. He's learning about these people.

Josh: How do you say goodbye? Do you, are you like, oh, we should stay connected? No, it's just like, it's not like, oh, I'll see you around, see you guys. Are they all— so was it like, it was it a neighbor?

Tommy: Yeah, there's a bunch of neighbors, but there was a bunch of randoms. But it's just like, catch ya, see ya, fun night, happy new year. It's very, you know, when it gets late, it's like, you know, people are just like, what, catch ya.

Josh: Did it, uh, did New Year's resolutions come up in conversation?

Tommy: Um, none of us really— I had to do the countdown. I set an alarm for 11 11:48.

Josh: Sorry, 11:58. You're the hip hip hooray guy and you are the countdown guy.

Tommy: And then someone pulled out their phone and I was like, dude, they got out this timer, this, and I was like, mate, that's wrong.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: I don't know how the phone was wrong, but I was like, aggressive, mine's on 11:59.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And his was like 11:56. And so I was like, cheque your other. And so everyone checked, but then I, you know how you can get the sort of, um, the you can see the second timer if you just look at the clock app face.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Has that, yeah. So I just counted down from 10 and everyone just cheered. It was good. And we walked across, watched a bit of the fireworks at the park.

Josh: And so what was the original plan gonna be? So you're gonna go to the pub?

Tommy: We were just gonna go for one beer and grab some cheese and nibbles and go, we'd packed a bag at home and we were gonna go sit on the hill and watch the fireworks and come home.

Josh: Do you have an internal way of you and Amy being able to say to each other whether you want to? 'Cause you've got this mate who said, "Hey guys, you wanna do this thing?" The struggle would also be making that decision straight away. You have to be in tune with your partner enough to know what you're both thinking and that you're not just being nice.

Tommy: 100%. I'm of the tendency to just probably just be like, get caught up, just be like, yeah, this is fucking sick. But I was vibing Amy and she was loving it. And then I was trying to get her to come home and she's like, no, I wanna stay for a bit more. Then it's fucking 2:30. I'm like, please come on, let's go.

Josh: What time do you reckon they all left?

Tommy: I reckon we were third last to leave. So there's another 2 couples that were still there when we left. When we left.

Josh: Yeah, we were playing board games.

Tommy: Oh, geez.

Josh: A board game. Who was it?

Tommy: Just you?

Josh: Yeah, it was—

Tommy: Oh no, Lucy.

Josh: Your friend Lucy? Yeah, our friends Lucy and Jeremy came over. And so, we were initially, we're going to buy some food and cook it. We're going to cook it. But you and I were cooking breakfast yesterday morning before the podcast and we're using the barbecue, I had sort of the barbecue on high and it was getting a little bit fat fiery for my liking.

Tommy: Streaky bacon tends to—

Josh: Yeah, but I just got worried, we're house sitting, Bree and I are house sitting at the moment and I was just worried about doing the barbecue. I'm like, it'd be a real shame to burn our mate's house down. And so—

Tommy: It'd be hard, outside barbecue, it'd be hard to do.

Josh: But so the flames are pretty crazy, we turned off all of the burners.

Tommy: You're surprised.

Josh: And the flame was still going.

Tommy: How the fuck do they cook streaky bacon in those small— Yeah. Like, you know, in America they just have kilos of it going.

Josh: You were blowing on the barbecue. Do you stand by that move?

Tommy: I was blowing on it because I thought that it might have just been a little bit that could just—

Josh: if you—

Tommy: if it just sort of lost its, lost its vibe.

Josh: It's like—

Tommy: I have a feeling— it's like coals, right? It's like if you blow into coals, it sort of energises the coal.

Josh: But that's why I'm wondering, is it not the same thing?

Tommy: What's the difference? I actually wasn't trying to get to the underneath, I was trying to get to sort of the, this surface level fire to see if it would just remove. Because if it, I mean, wind can sort of like push it, it's like a candle, you blow out the candle, it loses its heat.

Josh: I understand that, I understand that. But other than closing it made more sense in the end.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I was just worried about the food because it's actually put a smoke, so it's like a it smokes up within, within the lid.

Josh: That's what barbecuing— but were you— I feel like that would taste good or not the same because it's not—

Tommy: it's butane. Like, you get that butane, you taste the gas.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: Within it. So it's like a different kind of smoke. It's not the good smoke that you want. It's not smoked barbecue.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: It's just a fire happening and you've trapped the smoke.

Josh: Well, I do remember, um, listening to 3AW many years ago. It's just talkback radio station here in Australia, or in Victoria, and the barbecue guy was saying barbecuing isn't about using the flame, it's about using smoke, which is interesting. But I understand your point, which is, well, yeah, you're meant to smoke. That's why you should be closing the lid a lot, because it's all about like using that smoke to cook the meat versus the flame.

Tommy: It's— here's— if we're just getting barbecue deep, um, what I'm not a fan of is the Weber Qs. So they're like—

Josh: really? That's what we've got one of those?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. Only because I've been— I've been such a bogan cooking on such shitty barbecues that are just like flaming the grill.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: Whereas these are like— they're meant to work. So you close the lid and it works if you follow it. Like, it traps the heat and you've got a sensor and it like Cooks the meat so well. But if you're a bogan that's just come from just going—

Josh: Well, you just want— There is something nice about just having a flame and being able to deal with that. 'Cause, but my dad has one of the old style Webers. I don't even know if it's a brand, like I'm guessing it's called Weber, but it's one of those like the lids that you lift up with gloves or whatever and you sort of take it off and then you put it back on.

Tommy: Yeah, it looks like a ladybug. I had a red one when we were young, but you use legit coals.

Josh: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Tommy: Man, there's something about cooking on legit coals. It changes the game.

Josh: Well, that's what I like about Persian. There's a kebab called koobideh, which is like the minced beef with minced onion and shit, and it's delicious. And they put it on like the sticks that are quite—

Tommy: Skewers.

Josh: Skewers, but they're like— metal and they're long, they're like a circle. Anyway, the, um, I'm hungry. But so we were— our friend said, uh, called us and she was going to bring the chicken wings and she said, oh, they're out of chicken wings, do you want me to grab another type of meat? And Bree and I had just been talking about, man, maybe we shouldn't have committed to cooking, maybe we should have ordered something. So it's the perfect opportunity. We said, how about we just have some cheese and stuff and then we order in some food.

Tommy: What do you do? What can you order on New Year's?

Josh: We got pizza. Bri wanted pizza.

Tommy: It was just delivery, Uber Eats.

Josh: Yeah, Uber Eats. Yeah. But yeah.

Tommy: Was it long?

Josh: It didn't take that long. But the thing is that we're in a different part of town. And so, we hadn't been able to try the pizza place first. So, it wasn't as good as our previous locals. Yeah. But it's fine. But we were playing Ticket to Ride, which is this train, this game where you all have these little train carriages. And you build out sort of trains along different routes in the US. Very good.

Tommy: Is it hard?

Josh: No, it's like—

Tommy: Monopoly's not that, you got to think a bit.

Josh: There's a few elements to it. What was really hard was the board game was, we played with our friends Jack and Bianca the other day and they, you know, we were on one side of the table, they were on the other. And what I wasn't realising I didn't really think about, but they were actually, they had the board game upside down for them. Does that make sense? So imagine you've got all the like routes, all the different train routes.

Tommy: Oh yes.

Josh: They're all, the text is going one way.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: But there's two players that have to be on the other side of the board.

Tommy: So they draw the short straw.

Josh: And so we did the other side of the board last night and it was a headfuck.

Tommy: Yeah, you're trying to fuck.

Josh: Trying to work out where everything's reversed. So But it was a very good game.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I get very competitive, but there's the worst combo, which is being competitive and then also not very good. It's just a very frustrating—

Tommy: So, who won?

Josh: Lucy. She did? Yeah, yeah. I thought that I was going to win.

Tommy: I could imagine she's calm and composed.

Josh: Yeah. And the thing that's probably more annoying. But so, I'm house sitting and as you were walking in, you were telling me to feel this plant.

Tommy: Yeah, I was stroking a plant. It's like, I don't know, I saw it, I thought it, yeah, this, it looks, it looks sort of soft. And I think if I, if I just sort of clasp my hand around the plant and don't squeeze the plant, yeah, but I just feel, feel the, the leaves coming off it, and then I run my hand up. So I've got— it looks like I'm stroking myself.

Josh: Pain. And so anyway, you got me to do it. You got me to do it.

Tommy: I was like, try this, it feels good.

Josh: And then I think I said, oh, your dad would know what that is.

Tommy: Yeah, so my dad's a big nerd when it comes to plants. He's a landscape architect. He's a plant guru. He's like one of those, I've told you, I think I said it once, he's like that, the app that you just take a photo of a plant and you upload it to this thing and it tells you what plant it is.

Josh: A bit autistic in that specific area.

Tommy: Well, I always love being around somebody who has a great knowledge of something that I've got no clue about.

Josh: Have your parents, have they got a good garden?

Tommy: Amazing, yeah, beautiful. Just lots of natives. I'm just saying words now.

Josh: Any roses or no, not much of a rose?

Tommy: No, roses are a specific style. Dad, like we've worked on, I've worked on some amazing gardens with him, turak, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of plants.

Josh: If Bri and I ever like, oh, actually on another note, can we get some indoor plants for the office?

Tommy: Yeah, that's a hard one. 'Cause you need to look after them.

Josh: But we could definitely, when I was working at Envato, they actually had a company that would come and fucking water the things. Amazing. But so your dad could get us a good deal though.

Tommy: Yeah, he already did and I killed them. They were just hard to keep. There is some that are easier. I think the trick is to go and just say, what can you not kill? Let's get a couple of those.

Josh: Just have a bit of a water, sort of not a system as in like a sprinkler system, but there's a system where it's like Josh is in charge of watering them every second.

Tommy: Need a spreadsheet, just like, has it been done?

Josh: Just put it in Asana. Yeah, that would work really well.

Tommy: I need my dad to— he'll be able to tell us. But so what I did, you said, do you reckon he'll know what that is? And so I took a photo and sent it to Dad. What'd you say? Hey Dad, what is this plant called? Question mark. He just, he wrote back not even that long, maybe 5 minutes later.

Josh: As soon as you sent it, there was like the iMessage bubble as if he was starting to write a message.

Tommy: He said, it's called the asparagus or foxtail fern. Why? I wrote, friend wanted to know what the cost would be to fill a garden bed of 1 metre by 4 meters. What do you think? He said, probably around $15 each for 8 plants. You should write back, what would you charge him to install?

Josh: No, no, because he's gonna He'll send you a PDF quote and he'll— is he— so does he actively do that stuff now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you could— so if you do need your foxtail fern installed, I wonder where he goes to get plants.

Tommy: Oh, there's some amazing—

Josh: like farms? Do you go to a farm?

Tommy: Yeah, there's a place out near Officer, huge plant— it might be called Plant Mart, um, suburban out of Melbourne. There's heaps of nurseries. Yeah, we used to— I used to love going to nurseries as a kid. Dad owned a nursery.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Years and years ago.

Josh: I never thought of— when I think of nurseries versus a plant farm, nurseries, I feel like I'm getting ripped off. A plant farm feels like I'm going direct, well, factory outlet.

Tommy: Yeah, I think they are nurseries as well though.

Josh: It's, um, it's all in the name. Yeah, it—

Tommy: yeah, it is. It— I went to the, um, I went to the tip the other day. You would have been fascinated.

Josh: Where the fuck is the tip?

Tommy: Yeah, the tip is—

Josh: Is that what they call it in the US, by the way? Are they going to understand what we're talking about?

Tommy: The tip, yeah, the place where you dump all your trash, pay a bit of money and dump it off, and then it gets carted off into landfill. So this is in Cheltenham. Yeah, just sort of the back of Sandringham near the golf courses.

Josh: So it's around— is it residential?

Tommy: Oh, dude, not within that area.

Josh: There is—

Tommy: My parents live 4-minute drive.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, but it's not, you see, this is the thing, it's in an industrial zone, but it's sort of now sort of upper market, like it's right near a swimming centre. And then like, you know, it's near, it's not, yeah, so it's not, it's behind Bay Road if you know that, but it's not far, but it's not a stinky, it's not like, it's not like disgusting food. It's not like what you'd think about people chucking their trash out in the streets in New York City and it's stinking. Sinks and then they're taking the garbage bags and dumping them there.

Josh: Because you see that at the tip though, you see like, I feel like I've seen photos over the years where it's like, oh, this person went to the tip and it's just like fucking nappies. That's what all I think about is a tip with nappies.

Tommy: It's not a, it's a full operation. So you get there and you come up onto this weigh station thing and then they look, you basically just pay through the nose. It's so expensive. There's like a government charge. So just for the back of a ute, if it's not above the tray, it's like nearly $80.

Josh: What does that mean, not above the tray?

Tommy: So, you know, like the tray in a ute, the back of it. So if it's not sort of like heaped up and sort of coming way up— so you saw the ute that we had, so it was like fuck all stuff, still cost you $80 to drop off. And then you drive up and they give you this ticket and you go up and there's this big, this big bulldozer and it's like digging into this like hole. It's not even— it's a concreted pit that sort of— so it comes down on this angle and just pushes all of this stuff. So you chuck it in front of the— in front of it.

Josh: Hard for you? Could you lower the, um, flap or whatever so you could just sort of like throw it out?

Tommy: No, me and my old man, we just were throwing shit. We just grabbed it, throwing it. It's so much fun. You throw it in front of the Bobcat so it just crushes it.

Josh: And it stinks.

Tommy: Uh, no, it doesn't smell too bad. Not there, because that's just like hard rubbish. You can chuck you know, nap— like, probably bags full of nappies if you wanted to.

Josh: Is that where the normal rubbish goes, do you reckon?

Tommy: Nah, so this is a hard—

Josh: okay, hard waste. That's why it didn't stink and probably didn't look like the quintessential—

Tommy: it's not Garbo trucks going to drop off their shit. Yeah, but so yeah, it pushes all of this stuff, and then what I realised when we sort of drove out was it was pushing it up into this big hole and dropping down into a huge truck. It's so cool. There's some weird shit there. Like, there's a bunch of dudes sniffing around trying to like look for— the dudes who work there are always trying to just like, oh, what do we— we could take this.

Josh: Oh really?

Tommy: Yeah, just— they probably made a bit of money. I remember I had a safe and it had— I had the code for it and I was just— it's a big steel safe, paid a couple hundred bucks years and years ago. And the guy was like, you want this or nah? He's like, can I have it?

Josh: Just this was at the tip.

Tommy: Yeah, the tip.

Josh: Had you already paid for the, the weight for it?

Tommy: I think, I think no, that was free. That was in Shepparton. Sometimes they're just, they're a bit loose. Sometimes they're like, ah, just come. All right, we'll take that. It was like 2 things that I had.

Josh: Interesting.

Tommy: But not this time. But there's some, like, you could take stuff. Anyway, that was, uh, I think you'd like the tip. It's, it's very, um, systemized and It's an interesting place.

Josh: You've been very heavy on sort of the recycling, garbage. The other day you were talking about the bottles, remember?

Tommy: What was I talking about?

Josh: Recycling the 10 cents, getting the 10 cents.

Tommy: Oh yeah, it's new year, new me.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I'm the recycle guy.

Josh: Are you quite good, do you think, when it comes to rubbish and looking after all that stuff?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, we're really good at home. It's, we've got, yeah, it's a good setup. I get so pissed off when the bloke next door is putting plastic bags into the— plastic bags full of bottles.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Just being lazy. Well, there's just— it's a little thing that you just—

Josh: you—

Tommy: as if he doesn't know that you can't just drop a plastic bag into a recycle bin full of bottles.

Josh: It's more about the consumption, I reckon, now. Like, for me, it's like, oh, well, we started buying LaCroix because we found a place in Melbourne where you can buy the cans.

Tommy: Flavored fizzy water.

Josh: Yeah. We were buying it a fair bit and it's different. You know how we bought fizzy water the other day? It's completely different. The fizzy water here that we were drinking left some form of sort of synthetic, like your tongue feels a bit furry after a few, don't you think? Or it just felt a bit chemical. Yeah. Which it's not, I don't think. But LaCroix is just fucking solid.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Tastes good. But the concern I have is just even if it is cheap, even if you can get it at a good price, the amount of cans, yeah, seems ridiculous, man.

Tommy: No one thinks about where this shit goes because I said to my dad, where's all this stuff go? Like all that rubbish getting pushed up into the truck. He said, oh, it goes out to, uh, the quarry.

Josh: What the fuck is a quarry? He's literally, he's like, is that a water thing?

Tommy: No, it's a quarry where they were taking sand out of there to sell. He says it was that there was this thing.

Josh: What is a quarry?

Tommy: A quarry, the— a quarry would be a big hole where they've excavated the whatever it is, the mineral or the sand or the rock, and they've taken it out. I remember—

Josh: and they replace it with fucking rubbish.

Tommy: Dude, it's a big hole that they need to fill, and so what they fill it with? Shit that you fucking dump in your bin.

Josh: It's all landfill.

Tommy: So they legit just Drive it there, pour it in. It has to go somewhere.

Josh: Well, San Francisco, I think, is actually built on all landfill.

Tommy: Interesting. There's one you would have driven past today.

Josh: Is Manhattan the same? Is New York built? I don't know. I think San Francisco is though.

Tommy: Interesting. Well, I think it's one of the only ways that they can do it. Fill the earth up.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: With all your shit.

Josh: Yeah. I just don't know. I was having a conversation with someone today about renewable energy, all this sort of stuff. And I know, I feel like I know what the answers are, like we should be doing wind energy and stuff. But people who are against this stuff have normally spent more time than I have like researching. How do you deal with these situations where it's like you seem, it seems like there's a lot of holes but they've actually brought more information or seems like they've read more than what you can bring. How do you respond to that?

Tommy: Depends what it is. Was this person pushing back on—

Josh: Oh no, they were just saying like, you know, wind, uh, you know, all this, uh, sort of environmentally friendly stuff like the wind farms and the batteries and all sorts of shit. It's really, um, you know, it's bad for all these reasons, blah blah blah. And it was sort of, it's hard for me to push back because I'm like, the best answer I've got is it's like, but it's better for us. You know, like what do you say? Like how do you engage in those conversations?

Tommy: Was it conspiracy Jimmy?

Josh: No, it has that vibe though, doesn't it?

Tommy: But maybe they know, maybe they do know a little more than you do. But maybe it's just taking it on.

Josh: Yeah, well, it's like trying to ask questions and understand. And just being like, well, what about if it's like, if it's just that it costs more money, is there an argument in like it's okay to cost more at the start for it to then get cheaper? Like what I was saying was, you know, they were saying the solar panel stuff is bullshit and the cost versus what you get out of it. But I'm like, if you look at different things in our life where it's like used to be really expensive, you look at like solid state drives, Solid-state drives, you know, what the drives that go into your phones, that go into your laptops, they used to be super, super, super, super expensive. But as they manufacture more of them, they get more affordable. And so my thought behind it was it's like, yes, at the beginning all of these new things are going to cost more, but then the early adopters that can afford it will buy it, and then it will get to a point that it's affordable for everyone, and then it will, you know, be beneficial.

Tommy: Yeah, I think you just gotta listen. Yeah, it depends on what it is. Yeah, if it's someone saying that solar energy is bad, why the fuck is it bad?

Josh: Yeah. Do you get into, um, do you feel like you actively—

Tommy: I think you get into— you like a good— you like questioning that makes it seem like you might have an understanding, but you're actually just trying to work— I understand what you're saying.

Josh: Well, the other thing too is I just feel something inside me when someone says something that might be a little bit racist or a little bit sort of ill-informed. I do want to sort of— something inside me says I can't just like— I'm not someone who's like, how dare you do it, like going to that mode. But it feels like I'm being watched, and I, in that moment, I have to do something. I have to physically do, say something to be able to counter it, because otherwise maybe I'm a believer in the thing that they're saying.

Tommy: Yeah, but then it can become a bit of gear that you—

Josh: it's like you're just entering into these conversations where it's like, I actually don't know anything about it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: So you don't— you, you tend not to, to get into them?

Tommy: I mean, I've been best mates with Conspiracy Jimmy for 20 years, but he hasn't always been like that, has he? Well, he does, he's always had a real curiosity of interesting things and like, and so it is, I actually am fascinated by people who have knowledge, like I said about my dad, but so if someone thinks they know a lot more about solar and why you shouldn't, we shouldn't have anything to do with it, I'd be curious to understand more about it.

Josh: But sometimes, but it's also understanding where they're coming from, I guess you need to build the context.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And be like, okay, is this person in a unique position to be able to provide? Like, for instance, a friend of mine, his, his mum works as a translator or an interpreter, sorry, at the refugee camps. Wow. And so interestingly, she has perspectives on some of these issues and what happens that doesn't necessarily get reported in the media. And it's not always positive. And so, that's really interesting, 'cause I'm like, well, this is a person who is actually of the background of the people who are coming into Australia and she's thinking these things. And then, so I'm like, oh, like that's another interesting perspective that she's getting that we just don't have because we don't have access to these areas.

Tommy: Being open-minded, being up for having conversations about it. I don't think you have to get away from it 'cause you have no idea about it. But if you're willing to, have an argument with, not an argument, but debate with somebody, I think you actually need some substance to the other side. Or you can just ask questions, devil's advocate.

Josh: Yeah. It's, yeah, well, it's just that whole thing of being okay within this ambiguity where it's like, oh, like I don't know the answer, but like maybe it's this, could it be this?

Tommy: I think there's a point, there's a lot of people doing that where they're never having a point. They're always just in that, I don't know, what about this? And so they can be frustrating. I reckon that would be frustrating for the person that thinks they know something.

Josh: But if I'm onto something here, but if you think about like, I was watching some Jordan Peterson videos and he was just like not sounding that clear, is sort of like going back and forth on these things. He's like sort of almost arguing with himself. And I saw some comments where it's like someone who is so like, that is intellectual thinking of, you know, he's actually not clear. And the people who are more dangerous are the ones who are dogmatic and say, this is how it has to be.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're saying they are rock solid on their point?

Josh: People who are rock solid on their point are probably more dangerous than the ones who are like, eh, trying to work it out.

Tommy: Yeah, that is— I love that about Jordan Peterson. He sort of has those conversations with himself. He gets asked a question, but then he says, you know, but but maybe there's this other side of the— he's sort of playing out these scenarios.

Josh: I wonder what it'd be like at a dinner party. It'd sort of be a bit of a pain in the ass after a while, I reckon. Like, I saw this behind the scenes, but it was like Jordan Peterson talking to Trump Jr. Did you see that one?

Tommy: I couldn't work out who Trump Jr. was.

Josh: He's the one on the right.

Tommy: I love the comments in that one.

Josh: Yeah, people are like, oh, you know, someone said, oh, hey, how you going, Jordan? It's like, well, I think the answer to this, you know, abortion is blah blah blah. So yeah, escalating every situation.

Tommy: Oh, I think we must be in the same algorithm, we're getting the same. Yeah, I don't know, did you use my computer? Are we logged into the same YouTube account?

Josh: That's one thing I've noticed though is like, I'm not a Jordan Peterson fanboy. Like, I think you are closer to a fanboy, uh, but I watched a couple of his videos just, you know, And the fucking YouTube algorithm loves him. Like the types of divisive stuff he's talking about, it just— the algorithms are so dangerous, I think, because it just starts feeding. You just get all of the content and it seems like everyone's— I think part of the issue is maybe if you watch Joe Rogan on YouTube, you start getting the Jordan Peterson stuff. You get all of these sort of, similar ideas potentially.

Tommy: Well, you get the guests. It is weird. Do you think they even make sense of their algorithm and what— how it actually— like, are they key? Do you think they're— I mean, I'm simplifying it to like, oh, let's just press in this. If someone searches Joe Rogan, we give them this. Or it's like—

Josh: I don't think it's— I don't necessarily think it's dark. I think that what they're doing is They're saying, we want to— we think that it's beneficial for people to— we can basically give you a bespoke experience. So that idea of like, oh, we'll actually see what articles you're reading and then we'll deliver more of the articles that you like. But then it feeds this echo chamber of that you're just consuming this one point of view and you never see the other point of view.

Tommy: Um, yeah, well, when you're at the top it, um, they reward you constantly for being at the top. It's like my— I can't browse through any more than sort of the top podcasts on my— while I'm driving through my car system.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So I just listen to what's in the top 100, and that's—

Josh: and who's mainstream media?

Tommy: Well, that becomes—

Josh: yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, it's interesting. I was reading a book at the moment, um, called, I think it's, uh, Have I Made Myself Clear, or Am I Clear? I can't remember.

Tommy: Uh, well, you haven't.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. No, it's by a, um, a newspaper editor from The Times, and, uh, he talks— there's this great bit where he says, um, uh, the algorithm does like a bad job of like, uh, filtering— I can't remember the exact quote, but it was like filtering out the bad words. Like, he's basically talking about this, um, the words we use and how language has power. So this whole book is around— I think it's Have I Made Myself Clear? Um, but it's all about how the language we use, uh, affects all of these different things and how you can write in different ways to persuade. It's super interesting, but like, he, he It's very interesting when you actually transcribe one of, um, Donald Trump's rallies and how simple it is and how repetitive it is.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And then you look at some of the other things that are going on in the world and how I think I can fall into complex writing, whereas I get really fucking into it, but it's actually not easy to read. So I want to get better at that. Yeah.

Tommy: Have you, have you ever read a hard book?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I've like actually got through one?

Josh: No, I've definitely— No, I've listened to audiobooks where I'm like, actually, this can't be listened to.

Tommy: Yeah, it's full on.

Josh: Because it's just like, I don't— I think Hero of a Thousand Faces was one that I tried to listen to the audiobook, but I'm on track with my reading.

Tommy: Good.

Josh: Which is good.

Tommy: Is that 2019?

Josh: 2019, yeah.

Tommy: How many books are you just going to—

Josh: I want to do it.

Tommy: Read as many as you can?

Josh: No, I want to do 20 books.

Tommy: 20 books is doable. That's definitely doable.

Josh: Yeah. The thing is, I reckon I've probably, since I've said I want to read 20 books, I've probably bought 40 in preparation. Just like the—

Tommy: There needs to be a cutoff limit for you. Yeah.

Josh: Well, Bri and I have come up with it. $100 a month.

Tommy: On books?

Josh: Yeah. I've gotten rid of my audiobook subscription.

Tommy: Won't you be too far ahead?

Josh: This is the problem. I'm too slow at reading and I keep buying and I'll listen to it. I was listening to a podcast, it was fucking great. If I got my phone, I know it had Louis Theroux, the documentary maker, as a guest and it was so good. Um, and they were recommending books, um, Steve Martin's book, uh, Marc Maron's book, and my brother's, uh, was reading a book called What Made Maddie Run, I think, which was this, um, successful running, uh, this athlete, and she was, you know, sort of the All-American girl, and she ended up killing herself. And they basically— ESPN did a whole bit on her and spoke to the family, and there was basically all these signs through social media, through correspondence, through social media. So I think that would be—

Tommy: I've got a book you should read, John Safran's Murder in Mississippi.

Josh: Yes, I've actually, I've got the book. Oh, you got it?

Tommy: Yeah, I think you'll enjoy it. It's one of, it was one of my favorite. I, I had the buying because I was personal training him while he was writing it, and, and so I had some sort of insight, and it was nice to connect the dots of what he, oh, he's telling me about that storey about when he met that person. But it just painted, it's, I, I feel like I've actually seen the documentary, but I read the book because it was like just thinking about being over in Middle America, just Mississippi, staying in these little hotel rooms, meeting— it was like a Louis Theroux-esque mission.

Josh: It's such a luxury being able to read. Like, it's so enjoyable. Like, I think about what my dream life looks like.

Tommy: Just reading.

Josh: It's literally like just being in a nice climate-controlled room.

Tommy: Beach house.

Josh: Yeah. Well, no, it's actually probably— I reckon I'm more of a winter Yeah, like it's a—

Tommy: that's nice—

Josh: fireplace. Oh yeah, winter, middle of nowhere. Yeah, disconnected but 4G if I need it. Yeah, that type of thing. It's a daily talk show.

Tommy: Will you have your Apple Watch on? Because then that will distract you.

Josh: Exactly, you're gonna get rid of that thing if you were to have that. I'm gonna put do not disturb, uh, start using do not disturb. But the problem is that, uh, Bree was criticising me because I, um, wasn't taking it calls. So I need to— the problem is that I opened up my favourites on my iPhone too wide, so I had too many people in it. And the problem is that I had it set up that I would only, um, you would basically support— you'd go past the Do Not Disturb if you're in my favorites. It was basically everyone that I would connect with.

Tommy: So there's— it defeats the purpose.

Josh: It defeats the fucking purpose.

Tommy: Um, Seth Godin only has his family are able to contact him a lot of the time. No one else.

Josh: That's good. So on his phone, on his email. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: So Josh and his family.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Mo, his son.

Josh: Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Any other exciting news?

Tommy: Uh, no, I'm gonna go home and chillax.

Josh: Tomorrow we're back at work.

Tommy: You're back to work. Jan 2nd, that's—

Josh: yeah.

Tommy: Uh, yes, no messing around.

Josh: Wednesday.

Tommy: Straight back to it. Looking forward to a big year.

Josh: Yeah, it's gonna be great. Send us any emails if you, if you want.

Tommy: What books are you reading?

Josh: That's a good question.

Tommy: Yeah, for Josh, because he'll buy it.

Josh: Yeah, I'll buy it. I need to, I need to work it, because the other thing too is we've got so many books in storage that I'm going to bring out and then I'm going to want to read. And finally, on the book thing, we went past Book Grocer, which is such a shit bookshop. It's like, um All the books that didn't sell well. It's the green, it's the green logo.

Tommy: Sounds like the store you don't want to go to.

Josh: Well, it's, they, they had a sign, it's like all books $5, and I found 3 books that were actually good that I would buy that I got. Like one of them was, um, Hatching Twitter by a guy named Nick Bilton. He's like a tech journalist and he got access to Twitter and interviewed him and all that sort of thing. So that'll be interesting. I've got a couple of others, but definitely it's a, I actually need to get better with my today, sit down and lock in those resolutions for the year. Yeah. Did you end up doing it or no?

Tommy: No, no, no, 'cause we're doing it tonight.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: So do it tonight. There's no better time.

Josh: Maybe tell us your resolutions as well.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Josh: Hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Otherwise we'll see you tomorrow in the office.

Tommy: See you guys.

Josh: Catch ya.