- December 24, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Monday December 24 (Ep 245) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
On today’s Christmas Eve episode of The Daily Talk Show, we’re on the Sydney Harbour with our mate Matt D’Avella, who’s visiting from LA. We chat about high schools in the U.S, dealing with negative comments, leaving client work for YouTube, making money on Patreon, taking an equity option instead of getting paid directly for video work and building online courses.
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Wait a minute, cross face.
worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy Jake
the daily Talk Show Episode 245 with special guests the Sydney Opera House. She's behind this and met Dave Ella,
legendary one of them is legendary.
What is all this fuck it made of steel and the others also matters.
matters matter of our last time we had you on the podcast was when we were in Los Angeles. Yep. Yes, Hollywood. Yeah,
it was a pretty good one. You're a long way from West Hollywood. Yeah,
no, I feel good. You know what, honestly, I feel burnt. Right now. Having been out in the sun all day.
You just bad mouthing our ozone layer. I'm gonna go inside the best ozone layer.
I might be the worst section.
What do we know about what do you guys know about the ozone layer?
I want to say not much. So hopefully. Yeah, yeah, here. And you Well, I mean, what's interesting actually is a you guys with your private schools. A lot of them and I don't know if this is public school as well. But they all wear the hats and you have to wear your hat when you're outside.
The flap of the back
Yeah, the cover up all the skin? And we don't we don't have that. Yeah,
it's pretty serious. I think the issues with it and what it can do to your body.
What is what is the US school system? Like we say the Hollywood version, the college the lockers, the sorry, not college, you know, the quintessential high school cafeteria cafeteria is? Yeah,
I think you always have a difference between public and private school. And I don't have a lot of experience with private school. I haven't grown up in a public. But yeah, I think it's it's not the best. You know, I think a lot of the criticisms that people make about it not preparing you for the real world can be true. Yeah,
please go to opera by which is on the water on the Sydney Harbour looks like one of the best spots. There's like one of the biggest tourist attraction tourist traps as far as the restaurant and a bar, but it's like one of the best views. So we're drinking bees. There's a lot of lot of tourists photos happening.
10 bucks a beer isn't too bad, though. Or is it? Is that
what it was? 20 bucks clean.
It's a big East beer. And so yeah, it's good beer. So it's a great spot. We're in one of the most quintessential Sydney locations. Yeah, available to us.
So yeah, this is us that back to the high school thing. On a serious note, Columbine, do you remember what do you remember of that when you're growing up?
I was I think in eighth grade, which is would would be Middle School. So that's right before you would go away to high school, I remember coming home and my mom having it on the TV. It was really the first school shooting that I recall, there probably could have been one on. But this is the first mass shooting in a school. And I think it was it was scary. And it was like the start of obviously, a massive epidemic of repeats. And other people doing the same thing. And like us having bomb threats at my own Middle School, where somebody wrote that they were going to, you know, pipe bomb the cafeteria, and then the entire school gets off for the next two days. And then they, you know, bring the kid in for interrogation. And it's like a little bit unnerving. But at the same time, as much as it is in the media, and all over the news. It's very rare. And it's like getting hit by lightning. You know what I mean? It's very unlikely that it's actually going to happen to you and your school. But it
seems like what's happening now is it's like, more and more people are getting hit by lightning. There's more and more cases of of it happening. Or do you think the way just hearing about it more?
I think that like, I mean, obviously there's more cases of school shootings, that's definitely more and more prominent, but like, like, I mean, gun control is such an interesting topic, especially considering Australia vs. America. Definitely. Totally different approaches to it. Yeah. But I think like, obviously, like in terms of gun control, and now this podcast just got
I think I've gotten into arguments with Australians about this, because I'm kind of in the middle. And I'm very, like, a political, I usually don't really take a political stance, and I can actually see both sides. Something that we were talking about earlier today is like, just like this idea of like, there is there's probably truth in both on both fronts. Yeah. And the one is that, like shootings in general, and like gun violence is largely people using guns on themselves. And it's usually handguns. Yeah. And it's like even if you got rid of all the automatic assault rifles, you'd still have a lot of problems with gun violence. And it's like so how do you actually solve that problem? And getting rid of all the guns? That's it Natalie, my partner who is in Australia and she says just get rid of all of them? Yeah. How's it Okay, you go around to all these people down south that have guns stop piles of guns, and then you'd go and take the guns away. It's not
gonna be able to take them away. It's not it's not built into the amendments. And one of our one of our prime ministers just said, Yep, we're taking them all back we're buying them back off you can't do anything about it. We're taking most of the really lethal guns off off the market so that was a cutting ties moment which is just go Why don't you fucking do that? Yeah. In America. Yeah, dude, I like I even when I was in Texas like out at in the I was gonna say out in the outback but it's not the outback it's the American version of the outback Middle of Nowhere Middle America my main my will driving and my mate had no top on and tried to go into pay for our petrol they say not be can come in and then these two dudes and seeing what's that look like they basically had no tops on with a huge guns on their hips just weren't allowed to walk. It's like you're allowed the gun you hippie not allowed the shit. You know, like, come in here if you don't have a shirt on is like, wow. And now you will laughing about it to say, That's funny. Yeah,
like a massive hypocrisy. And that's the same thing like you see in schools with like, clothing regulation, your skirt can only be so high. And yet the cheerleaders walk in and their skirts have to be like super short, shorter than regulation. It's like it's just, I think hypocrisy. Like That is crazy. It's confusing times.
But did you were in high school?
I didn't do cheerleading for a day because like I like, I guess one school game out of the year, the cheerleaders would pick a guy to cheerlead with them. Yeah. And I was like, This is my shot. Is there? I'm going to get in with the cheerleaders, which were not very desirable. But yes, I've worked for the know we're very desirable. No, it wasn't like Bring it on. It wasn't were like the cheerleaders were like, like the coolest girls in the
school. What was that? Like?
They were like the aspiring dance serious. I they? Yeah. And like, there was like the flag people that like spun the flags around on poles. Yeah,
what would you actually wear? I'm curious. I, I would wear because I feel like when I was a kid, in high school, I used to think, man, if I would have casual dress days where you can wear what
you're saying. So paint the picture of what you thought College School was, and then save. Matt can just say,
high school was like you could wear whatever you want, like you didn't. When I grew up, I had school uniforms down to a public school, like, sort of a polo shirt school. And so we still had to wear school uniforms, awesome blazers or anything. It was just like wearing a polo shirt, and pants. But when you look at the US, and you say like Nickelodeon to the movies, yeah, the movies they're wearing like, I would be the Hawaiian shirt guy.
It's like he's rocking out to school six days and driving to driving to school by themselves. Was that what was going?
Well, I think that the if you were to look at me, the only thing that you would see is hair. Because I know honestly, if you look at my prom photos, it was crazy. Like, legit. legit, like this huge bullet. Cut with a bucket cut with the hair frayed at the side all around like natural,
like rim. No straightener work.
I don't know. I don't know. I think it was just too long and I had no idea what to do with it. And I was just too afraid to cut it. And it wasn't until like after college Really? That I finally cut my hair. What did you wear? I wore jeans usually your bag? Yeah, yeah. A bag of your jeans. It wasn't actually there was no uniform bag your clothes bag your pants and then usually like a graphic t shirt. Were you into something witty on it like chicks dig me with little chicken
were you into it like the music saying like without fringe were you into like screamer now?
For like boys.
Now I was like a limp biscuit blink when any offspring. Yeah, the offspring are good. But that was just like more from knowing I wasn't like a fan Green Day. Green Day. Yeah, I wasn't actually that big of a music or can I it's because my parents weren't big into music. I think there's, you know, like, I never listened to the Beatles until I was in college. Because like, I felt my parents just didn't let me know that there was music.
Very sad. So do you remember your first CD?
I think it was like TLC. I don't know why I think I bought it for my sister. She sold it to me
that Joe tail say? I don't think so. That was a big one. Yes, it was don't go chasing waterfalls. There was like hot hits CDs that had like the top top song like so fresh. So fresh. Yeah, we had a couple of those like the top 100 tracks of the year or whatever. So since we lost boy, it's changed. Or nothing's changed. Yeah, it depends who you ask. Yeah, I will. I will ask you. Has anything changed?
I have more subscribers. On YouTube a lot more? A lot more? I think Yeah. Last time we saw each other. I was around like 200. And then since then I'm clean 740. My last check this morning. Yeah, now, but it's been like the growth on my channel has been crazy, which I guess just on the surface level things have changed. I think it's just like the same thing. But just that a little bit of a larger scale, a little bit more people are watching and paying attention to my videos than were in the past. But generally similar content.
You don't have ads, no ads haven't turned Have you worked out what sort of cash you'd be making? If you had ads? I don't
know. It's hard to say because it's like, it really depends on who's creating it. But I think since my content is pretty high quality, and it's pretty safe. It's not like I'm talking about gun control. Stay away from those topics in my videos, mainly because I have no idea what I'm talking about. And I think that's like, I not that I know that much of what I'm talking about when it comes to like self development stuff. But I feel like I have more of a ground to stand on.
Well, it's like, you know, not every level is it like we're just a little bit more naive in regards to like, I know wireless about this stuff. So my comfort level of talking about it is super fine. Whereas probably because you live in in a country where it's actually a thing. It's probably less, less something you want to talk about. Yeah, yeah.
Right. It's basically it's just because it's like so volatile. And it's very hard to talk about anything within politics, because it's like, people get very upset. Yeah, you don't agree with them. 100%, which is the craziest thing. And I think that the most interesting thing about like, 2018 2019 it's this idea of identity politics, and like people just being like, Okay, I'm liberal. So therefore, I have all these beliefs that all line up with me. And it's like, Yeah, I don't think it really should be like that. But in terms of what was the
question, the question is, how do you feel? And I think it's good. Maybe that is, are you thinking differently about what you're putting into the video based on? How many more people are watching? Now,
you have to be more vanilla?
We have no, not at all. No. And I think that's like, I've lost a lot of subscribers by like, not being I'm not like crazy, but I'm like a curse. And I'm, I try to be myself as much as I can have my videos with these people before or people have signed up and gone. Oh, hang on. I think it's you always you're always getting like certain people that are leaving, I think like anytime, like when we did our podcast together, I said it. Again, probably I did it again, right here. And but I probably lost a few people from seeing that I don't know, like,
dislike, right? was only high on because of you dropping the say, nothing to do with us.
Was it higher ratio,
I've got like, what is it called v di Q. And the IQ will show you like the tags that people used within videos, all the analytics.
What's not fair because it is a podcast and the podcasts on my channel didn't do as well as the rest of my videos.
There were so many I mean, with the more with higher attention brings more trolls or people willing to just talk shit on your channel, there was one guy that wrote on there, and was blowing up about how you're pushing to make money through Patreon, or have people donate and support you creating this stuff, because it's all but then he was going so hard on that one comment. And then another comment down, he'd watched the whole thing. He got to the end, and then was like commenting on the content of the actual podcast, which was like an hour long. Yeah. So it's like, he was complaining about how you're pushing for people to support you to create more of these, but then watches the whole fucking thing? Yeah,
I actually, I think maybe in the beginning, I was a little bit more worried about like trolls, or haters, or people that would like to talk shit on you. But now, it doesn't bother me at all. I mean, like, I think there's a immediate kind of cringe to it. When you see it, you're like, Oh, yeah, because like you're reading, I gotta say, the one thing that is amazing about the comments that I've noticed from my videos is that everybody's super positive and nice. And I'm like, this is amazing. And I'm like reading 20 comments, and everybody's been super supportive and positive. And then it's just this one shit head. Like I you spoil it. But I actually think it's important to, to see that and to be okay with it. Because people get too caught up and living in their own bubble of like, thinking that they're the the shit and everything that they say gospel. And I think it's nice to see that it also strengthens your arguments. Because if somebody actually has a good point, even if they are a hater, no matter where it comes from, I'm like, maybe like I didn't do a good enough job articulating my point in this video. And like, I got that in a Black Friday video I made where I think somebody was saying how like, Oh, this guy's just blaming it on corporations, that people buy shit. And I'm like, that's if you watch the whole video, I clarify that, that I'm like, we need to take responsibility for ourselves. But the same time I'm willing to look at that argument objectively and be like, well did. Does he have a point? Did I not do a good enough job with my argument? And what ways can actually improve it? And in that way, I know that there's a lot of people that shy away from criticism, or just say, Oh, don't even listen to them. haters are haters. And then I'm like, You know what? I don't know. I like to look at arguments and I like to sharpen my arguments as best
I can. Even the last week, you've been called the fuck with by 10 different people, chances are you probably have it,
or you're reaching a lot of people. Yeah,
If you do the numbers, like,
percentage, a lot of people hate your shit. Then you're like, maybe I'm just being a troll. But I think if you willing to put yourself out there and build something, I think there is a level of you, like you said, being okay with people saying something or, or calling you out for something. I think it's a trade off. Yeah.
And I think that when you start creating yourself, you are much less likely to hate on other people. Because you know what it takes, you know how hard it is to put yourself out there and how much vulnerability it takes to really like speak what's on your mind. And I think at that same time, that's why we need to be respectful of each other. But then again, if there's an idea that somebody is talking about, and you disagree with them, I think it's okay to either talk about that in your own content, or to have a discussion with them there. But you just have to be mindful that people are a little bit sensitive.
I think, Josh, with your blog and our podcast, being okay, and solidifying thoughts, like putting stuff constantly allows you to solidify your thinking on something. And then having those rock solid thoughts or beliefs on something and sharing that there's a high chance that it's going to disrupt or annoy somebody. And I looked at and I want Josh is going to blog now since he's quit social media. Yeah, which is a whole lot of distractions and don't calm, it's, it's good.
he sends it to me, and I say forgot your if I quit now. But he sends it to me and I and I, the ones that I liked the most are the ones that sort of caused a little bit of internal conflict, where I'm like, people are gonna think you're fucking for saying that. And then not even that bad. Oh, it's like, I even challenge his thought there. But it's not enough where I've like got a rock solid fact, against what he said. But I was like, that's what I actually like about it, but
just having an opinion being able to actually see. And for something, I think he's has way more cut through than just sort of like adding heaps of disclaimers, and making sure that you're not upsetting people.
And doesn't it take like when you're writing something, to be able to think about the other argument, you like thinking from the perspective of the viewer of the reader of the audience and saying, will they be able to poke holes in this? Yeah, because like you're trying to prove a point, you're like writing a persuasive essay, and it takes understanding how people might perceive it. And I think if you're, like, ignorant to that, then you're not gonna be as effective.
Absolutely. What was your goals a year ago with the YouTube channel, it was to make a living out of it.
That was my goal from day one of starting my podcast and my YouTube channel, which was like, maybe two years ago when I started it. And it was transitioning from freelance filmmaking work, working with clients, to doing my own thing, making videos, podcasts, and it seemed like the biggest leap, and it in a lot of ways, it was like, just the craziest leap to be able to build an audience and to have them support you financially is wild. And I thought it was, I don't know, if I, you know, I believed in myself, because I did it. And I went for it. But at the same time, you're like, Madam, this is gonna work.
Well, what was the actual job? Like? Was there a point where you're like, I don't know if this is gonna be this is gonna work, like, and then yeah, what was that sort of.
So there was like a bit of a in between where I'm doing freelance client work, I'm working on a couple final projects, which kind of stretch maybe four months into making of original content. And then I had to just say, all right, this is going to be I'm gonna have to do a strong stop on all this client work. If I'm really trying to build momentum, if I'm really gonna make this work. I need to actually dedicate two years, like I had, you know, I feel like you have to set it at a time period of like, how long you're actually gonna give this a shot? Yeah, a full time shot of not really making any money elsewhere. And I did have some money coming in from minimalism. My first documentary, which was paying out quarterly, which gave me you know, a little bit of money here and there, but it wasn't paying my bills. Yeah. But so it's nice to have that. But at the same time, I was like, all right, I've really got two years to make this work. I built up some runway. I stopped doing freelance work about four or five months in. And then what does runway look like to you? Do you think there's an equation where it's like, three months of salary is, you know, what you should be aiming for? Depends how much risk you can stomach, and I'm not really good with risks
having so you had well IVF Rama?
I mean, I probably had at least a year to two years probably.
Literally, like you work out It cost me X amount of to live a month.
I wasn't that like specific with it. But it was like, all right, yeah. Like Generally, if it if I, you know, maybe 20,020 $5,000 a year I need for basic expenses. Knowing that Natalie has a job too. And I have a little bit of a security and fall back. And she knows that she can help me out if things get really tough. Yeah. But obviously just like spending a lot less money. But it was like my bank account drained quickly, and I couldn't make the same purchases I used to with camera gear, you don't have any, like, it's very easy to make upgrades. When you're making money. You got a big job. And you're like, Great, now I can upgrade my camera. So I had to like really kind of be tight with things for the beginning. And he had conversations with not
No, no, I yeah, we were she was like, fully supportive from the beginning. Although she did just tell me because I had this moment in the beginning when I was like, not like, I don't know if I should do this. And she's like, I believe in you. You got to do it. You got it. You've been talking about it for so long. You just got to take the jump. And then I just talked to her the other day. And she's like, I didn't believe you. Like I really I didn't think you were going to be able to do it. I was like there's no way he's gonna be, you know, like, be able to build an audience and make money doing it.
But maybe that's just a realistic partner that is also supportive at the same time because I don't think
it doesn't make you couldn't believe in yourself. If you didn't know, how the
fuck can you expect to it? So yeah, I think it'd be you wouldn't be together and in an engaged if she was like, not out of the ability that
Yeah, sure. So delusional. She believed in me. Like you shouldn't believe in me that much. Because she knows who I am. Yeah,
she's probably spirit. You haven't got the rock yet? On your pod? Yeah, get the rock on your podcast. And the model that you've got, I explained as in the, I guess you could call it do you look at what you're doing is like my business model is x. Is that Have you got a description for that? As I look at what you're doing with your Patreon? Yeah, scribe is I guess it's like, a modern day business model, freemium. But I, I tried to talk, I explained to this guy who is a really big author in Australia. And he's got a huge subscription model business. And I was saying, I you should check out Matt developer, he's made some amazing stuff. And he kind of couldn't wrap his head around the Patreon stuff. Hmm. And how do you explain that model? Because I think it is new I, I get it. But it's also it's very interesting to my parents would be like, what the fuck? And I can imagine your mom and dad like, you do? What? Yeah. How does that work? So what how do you explain how you make money through your content? Yeah.
So I knew from the beginning that, well, I knew from the beginning that advertising wasn't going to be the best way for me to talk about my content, because a lot of it is critical of advertising. And it's very hard to not be a hypocrite and get as well also criticizing it. And so that was kind of tough. But although at the same time, I'm not against advertising, I don't think advertising is evil, period. Full stop. I think that a lot of advertising is manipulative, and I think a lot of people Oh my god, it's just like, polluted Instagram with the sponsored posts. And it's just all over the place where you're like, it's very hard to get like an authentic real post without knowing somebody's actual true intentions behind it.
Have you ever been paid for an Instagram post? Yeah.
Now I haven't. I haven't I haven't been paid. I haven't done any advertising or any sponsorships on Instagram or anything. I might explore that in the future as just a one off video type experiment. They just sell out for a ton of money for one Instagram post or one on YouTube videos.
But I see selling sprays and
doing the squeegees a test.
I do have a couple of videos around this is like just to play around with it and kind of be a bit ironic and cheeky with it. But the advertising thing I wasn't I was thinking about maybe doing like the Tim Ferriss method, which like his works really well is I will only promote products that I've used to tested that actually add value to my life. And like that seems to me to be okay. But also at the same time. I was like, let me just give it a shot. Let me just try if I can do without advertising.
How do you say that pact? So you had a
deal with? How did that work? It collab with creating a bag. Yeah,
so there was this bag called the past one, which was a physical product is a bag like a travel bag. And I partnered with them, I got like a small stake, like, I don't say like 8% or something to have like profit of the production of the bag to make all the video content surrounding it. So it's a partnership. And like this is the only time I think I would ever do work with a brand is if I'm actually a partner in the project. If I and it has to be something I believe in some
other two years that you'd said no more.
Yes. So that was like an exception and that it wasn't client work because I was a partner. Yeah. And I would have actually when it came down to it, I would have gotten paid a lot more if I had done it as a freelance.
So in future if someone was to say hi, will pay you 15 grand to do this, these you know this video, or will give you equity, how do you make the call? How can you actually sort of work out which makes more sense
right now? It's a blanket no to all of that. Yeah, just because I know that if I do,
if you want to make profit in those things, right? Yeah, yeah,
I think that the percentage deals is top because you actually end up putting a lot more work and time and energy into it than you would otherwise. Because you are now a partner. And you have to get on every partner phone call. And you have to, you know, be taught like, you have to figure out the business logistics, and you have to read all the contracts, and it takes a lot more more work then does just executing on some creative concepts. And you don't feel as tied to it. I think that that's why it's more valuable. That's why you should potentially get a bigger stake in the project if you can bring a lot of value to it. But
so how do you explain to mom and dad? Yeah.
So it's any, it's all through Patreon, which is basically a lot of people see it as just like a donation site as a way to just donate and contribute to creators that you care about that you want to be able to help support.
I think it's like GoFundMe. Yeah,
but it's not quite a GoFundMe, because generally he doesn't go to illness. Yeah, some people kind of use it as that. I mean, you have the Sam Harris is who he recently left Patreon. But he was on it. And I don't think he gave he gave it he did ama's, where he just did it like one podcast a month, whereas answering people's questions from Patreon, and he was one of the most popular people on there. So I think it's like, basically, you're giving somebody content. You're giving these groups content, you can do tears. So I'll do like I have a tear that's $4 a month, which is people basically paying to just support my ad free content. And then you have the equivalent of a GoFundMe, that's basically Yeah, you don't have that much coin, but you want to support me in some way. Yes, sir. That and then you have the $8 a month, which is I do an AMA once a month, just answering Patreon only questions and that's like a usually a 50 to 60 minute podcast. And then I have the top tier which is $12, which is really the main tier and what most people do. And it is videos, I make this video, I'm actually shooting the podcast that we're recording right now. And then I release that as a separate little piece of content we send profit. Yeah. Yeah,
the trip here. But then everyone.
Here, like, you know, a lot of people think minimalism isn't about buying things, but a private plane is an experience. But uh, yeah, so then it's also just edited videos, it's like, behind the scenes content. It's like, anything that I wouldn't put on my actual YouTube channel is in the form a kind of just gives people more of a behind the scenes look at what my life is like, and also how I make my videos. So it is you're getting something for your money. But then also, Patreon is meant to be a subscription based. Yeah, so it's really not about one off donations. It's about people that want to support you for the long run.
What sort of drop off right? do you have?
It's pretty good right now. But I mean, I'm still learning because I'm about four months into it. Yeah, about from originally starting my Patreon account. And I think at the end of the month, I you get a little drop off where I might lose 30 to 40. And I have about 1000. Now at this point,
do you feel weird about people knowing roughly how much money you make?
Now, now I don't feel weird about it. I think that that's an interesting conversation just about money. And I, I personally, there's a lot of people that share openly how much money they make and you financial breakdowns. I feel a little bit uncomfortable about that. It's easy to do when you when you're only making 20 $30,000 a year. Yeah. But then obviously, people always stack and rank and compare themselves to others. And I wouldn't want people to feel that comparison game where like, Oh, I need to make as much as matchmaking.
But also, there's that comparison thing and people being like, Oh, well, I don't make that much money I so I'm not going to support you based on on that, like people can then start making the Colburn. Like, I think Matt should only be making five and a half grand a month. So I'm looking the way that
I think I get around that is that if the only reason that you're supporting me is because you're trying to help me pay my bills, then and like maybe you yourself don't have the money to contribute. And first of all, just don't contribute. don't have the money for it. Second of all,
you threatened me before.
But then at the same time, I'm like, for me, I feel like I'm providing enough quality content that it justifies people paying for it. So like, it's not just to support my my living and for me to stay alive buying
something that pie and that's and that's why I guess the GoFundMe thing, like just trading it like that can be a little bit weird, because people do have a point, which is like, yeah, you can get it all on on YouTube. But I reckon you do the best Patreon stuff. Like you're like I support probably a dozen people on Patreon. And you're the only person that I like, consistently watch really extra material. Yeah, well, why is that? Well, it's because I feel like I'm actually gaining some insights. So the behind the scenes stuff that you did, like the video breakdown was great. The ama is a really good, I think that most people see, see how many people they're reaching with Patreon. And they're like, I'm only ever I'm only reaching 200 people. So I'm only going to put that amount of effort and they put all of their effort into their free content. I think you've got the balance of I'll watch a video and it's like, epic production value. And then I'll look like 150 people are only watching it on your thing. You're still giving it the time and the respect because reality is you making like 10 grand or whatever it is from
you because he could get 200,000 plus on your channel. What's the thinking between now here 450 people? Yeah,
well, it is. I mean, honestly, like, it's fucking great because it was 150 people are the ones that are paying my salary. Yeah, so I think for me, it's it feels it feels just as good to put that amount of effort into it. And I'm somebody that's like, I can't just make a throwaway video. I can't it's very difficult for me to sit down and edit a video and be like, I'm just gonna make this one shitty.
shit look, nice throw shot. Well, yeah, what you're shooting on like a MacBook Pro? webcam. Yeah,
I mean, it is. I mean, you know this, like, as a filmmaker, it's like, you take a lot of pride in what you do. And it doesn't matter how big the audience is. And I think that I guess what I could say that I do is I just keep it very simple and like some people maybe oversimplify it, and that they will say, I don't want to put anything behind a paywall. Yeah. And I think that kind of thinking is silly. Because you're like, well, then you're only going to be able to ever make money through advertising. And there's a lot of ways to make premium content for people that people pay for you put a lot of time and thought and energy into like videos that are course. And I think that people should have to pay a premium for that stuff. You
tried to do the whole course thing or you're at the early stages of Oh, yeah, yeah. Did you buy old?
I did build Yeah. For now.
What was the thought process on that? It was
before I started Patreon I had a habit course that I was developing that I started to write and then keep the habit up. Keep the habit. Yeah, I needed to make a habit course in order to figure out how to keep up my
actually first it was a filmmaking
call had a couple different ones that I played with, I think early on. Yeah.
Many people just thought, that's a great wide, because I think you can logically make sense of it. Yeah, I have this and I sell it for that. And then I think the guys
that works at RGA has thought about creating a mobile video course you know, everyone's like, it seems like a very common thing. I'm so how to use your
iPhone, you had a backup your iPod fucking use that
because I got no idea. No clue how that works. And so what was the How far did you get into the course? Did you get the curriculum together?
I got Yeah, I got the curriculum, basic things structured. And I started to write maybe three or four of the episodes or videos. And then it I just, and like I said, a deadline for it. Like, Hey, guys, sign up for my newsletter. And then yeah, sign up for my newsletter. And then I knew that I had maybe three months to put this whole course together. Yeah. And I just realized like, this is going to be really difficult to finish in time. Because not only am I making all this content that is going live to YouTube, and a podcast and a video and all this stuff. Then on top of that, basically, I would need to make like a video every other day. It's just I was like, was a one off payment to was it? Or was it going to be subscription? It was gonna be a one off payment. But I think it comes down to to the fact that there are people out there that I know that like, yeah, just make a course in a week, just whip it together. And I'm like, I don't think I can do that. I can't just like put together shit
was just look at your success, it's preparation. And the years and years of slogging away and then committing to that. So it's like, I see these people that see it as an easy thing. Even people with audience Yeah, I've got it. I've got a friend who has a big audience. And I and he's had that same thinking. And it's and it's knowing the thinking of already an audience and just create a course that will buy it. Yeah. And I can sell lots of them. And it's
you know, it's not, it's not always as easy. Especially Yeah, because you need an offering enough. Yeah.
And so it's hard. How do you? What do you think about how you what the success you've had now? And how you could apply it to doing something else?
Well, I think like, the first thing is that it's all about reputation. So you would never want to like half assed something or you would want to make sure whatever you're putting out there that has that same kind of quality that people would come to expect from you and the same kind of energy and the output that you have created before. Do you mean like creating something completely different from
film or principles from what you've learned? along the way of building drivers and the effort you've put into making the two year runway now that you don't actually make it work? Make it actually work? What were they? Yeah. And what could you then take that and apply? Like, do you think it's transferable to sales?
I think that one one key is consistency. Yeah, is like I set out and I said, I'm gonna do a video. It was originally podcast every Wednesday, and then a video ended up coming out every Monday. And then I kept that consistency up, especially when things were growing. At that point, actually, in the first month of growth, I did two videos a week, because I can people didn't know who I was, they were subscribing to me. And they were seeing me for the first time, I felt like I wanted them to see more of me, is there a risk in that? So so you set up a consistency where it's like, once a week, and then all of a sudden you say, now that I'm going through this hyper growth I'm going to do to awake? Do you then set yourself up for that being the new expectation it was for a little while? And then eventually I had to just be like this, I cannot maintain this. Did you lose anything from doing that? from going back to one? Now? Yeah, now my growth didn't change my growth. I mean, it only got bigger from doing. I think this is maybe my learning lesson is that there's a lot of the daily bloggers, daily bloggers, whatever, just trying to create lots and lots and lots of content, which is good. I think in the beginning, the volume game. Yeah, cuz you're getting better though. You're building up skills a lot quicker than somebody who's doing one a week. Yeah. But then I think that the best game to play right now is because there's so much content out there, it doesn't matter if you're creating more, because there's people, there's 3000 people just like you that are creating just as much that are creating the same kind of content. So if you slow down and you're like, I'm going to make one thing a week, but I'm going to make it fucking amazing. And I'm going to continue to make one thing a week for the next two years, and continue to build it. And like, granted, I had 10 years of filmmaking experience before heading into this, but everybody's got if they've built up some skills or their graphic designer, they have some kind of skill that they've crafted over the over the years, or something that they can build through freelance and other work that I think they can kind of hinge on as their thing, but it's like consistency was huge. And then also, you do have to have like a bit of gut or like learn from putting stuff out there. Like I can identify what's working well and it's a lot of it's common sense but it's like you just see a video performing well and you know, okay, that kind of content works well. How can I then recreate this for a different subject? Yeah.
Can I be too strategic? We are you wrapping up?
Tomorrow bond die Christmas die. Matthew Valley joining us to cry daddy talk show. Hi, the dough talk show.com if you want to send us an email, Dave L is joining us throughout the week. While we're in Sydney, check out his YouTube channel. Yeah, man. Yeah.
Have a good one guys. Hey, guys.