Bogan Banter

Tommy: Wait a minute! Frostface!

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 242.

Tommy: I'm caffeinated up, ready to go.

Josh: Have you had another coffee?

Tommy: Yeah, I had a, I had a cup of black swamp water, which was Nescafé, just the nasty stuff, the instant stuff. Look at it, look at the colour of that.

Josh: Can I smell it?

Tommy: Yeah, it looks yuck, but it gets the job done.

Josh: Hmm, that smells okay. Does it? It smells a bit like a plane. You know, I always love the smell of sort of dirty coffee in a plane.

Tommy: Yeah, I've got a problem of not being able to say no to drinks on a plane and the food. I always want the coffee. I had some of the worst coffee on some of those international flights, those really cheap ones.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, it just, it is legit swamp water.

Josh: I actually had a kid sitting next to me on a flight and she got like a drink, like a juice or whatever, apple juice. Yeah. And she just wasn't drinking it, it was just there. And she ended up like, I'm like, she's gonna knock that on me and I'm gonna be pissed. She ended up knocking it over onto her mum instead.

Tommy: Well, good.

Josh: But don't you think, like, as a parent, do you think there's probably, like, what is the rules? Should you just say, look, you can't have a drink unless you can drink it straight away?

Tommy: Oh, the thing is, you, there's lapse of judgment. Bodhi, so for instance, Bodhi likes to drink from a cup and he's good at it. Two hands, please, two hands. And he uses two, two, his little hands. He's drinking his water or his smoothie and he's good at it.

Josh: What's in his smoothie?

Tommy: Oh, he has a banana smoothie in the mornings. Once it presses the button, make sure it whizzes around and then gets his bit, but loves it. The reality is he's also dropped a glass on the ground and smashed.

Josh: You give him glass, mate.

Tommy: Yeah, we dance with the devil.

Josh: We have fucking plastic cups. You gave Dan DeBooth a plastic cup. On yesterday's show.

Tommy: That is true. But the other thing that parents will know is that they always want what you've fucking got. And we've got the blue cup, which is a glass. And so they get that he wants the blue glass. Sometimes he's like, nah, I don't want to drink from my— you know, not saying that because you can't talk like that, but he's just demanding the same cup that you have.

Josh: What are some things that only adults get? Magnum ice creams was one for me.

Tommy: What? Oh, so kids, there's a rule. Oh, I don't know.

Josh: What was the sh— we've spoke about this probably in the first 10 episodes. What is the cheap Magnum? It's not a Heaven. It was like cheaper than that. It's got like hedge in the name, maybe. I don't know it.

Tommy: There was a bunch of like Coles do a home brand. Heaven is one, isn't it? I thought that was the second one.

Josh: Heaven was actually really good because Heaven had like the chocolate in the middle, like a fudge that would all stick to like be on the stick.

Tommy: Yeah, there are so many brands now, but yeah, I never really had— I can't remember what it was other than alcohol as a kid. Anyway, yeah, anyway, I've, um, you know, I like to listen in on conversations when I'm at coffee shops if I'm there by myself, you You know, and I think people like to, if they're around a group of people or workmates, like to tell a good story. And the problem is I get sucked in. So I just start listening with an ear while I'm looking down at my laptop. Heard a great story. This is one that could be a movie. Okay. This dude was telling it, one of his mates.

Josh: What café?

Tommy: I don't think they'll listen downstairs. I was gonna say, I don't want to say because I don't want the storey getting back.

Josh: In Collingwood.

Tommy: In Collingwood on Easy Street was the cafe.

Josh: Underneath our office.

Tommy: Yes. I hadn't seen these guys in there before. They, yeah, they seemed powerful. They seemed like they were from quite a large company. So they might have been just, you know, passing it by.

Josh: Was this a few, was this like a week ago?

Tommy: A week and a half ago.

Josh: Was it the guy who was like saying, this is how it is. Like there was one, I was listening to a conversation and we may have been in this on the same, might've been the same day. But I was just listening to this guy who I was like, man, it's amazing. I got the sense this guy had power. I was like—

Tommy: I think I know the guy you're talking about.

Josh: I recognised in that moment the bullshit that people put up with when it's the boss. Like he's like, nah, this is how you need to do it. In bloody, he's mentioning other countries. We did it like this, this and this. It, didn't work, does a bit of slightly racist stuff, everyone's sort of just like nodding and being polite. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't that guy.

Tommy: I don't think it was that guy. I think I know who that guy is. So you see, we both do it. And here's a telltale sign: if you are telling a storey and you look around and there's a couple together that aren't doing anything, they're not talking to each other, they're kind of just like clearly just all the attention, all the focus is on their ears being able to function well enough to listen to your story.

Josh: Absolutely.

Tommy: But this guy said that his mate bought a property that was within Melbourne, sort of on the outskirts. It was occupied, which this happens a lot overseas, like outside of London, uh, within England, like the pikies, they're like the, um, the gypsies.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Tommy: They like just find land, they sort of like make it their community and they're like squatters type of thing. It's basically squatters.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, so this guy said that he— a full like, um, caravan was on the property and these dudes who were angry, he called them psychos, they wouldn't get off. And he's tried the police, the police couldn't do anything. These dudes are just brutal. And, um, what it turned out that this guy said that he found out some info about the dudes on the property and that they'd just done jail. One of them just got out of jail, and it's like, you don't fuck with them. So one, he's— this guy's got his own property that he can't get these people off, and the police won't even get them off.

Josh: And the police should, shouldn't they?

Tommy: Yeah, but it's hard. I mean, then they have to—

Josh: what, you can't have a caravan? What they're doing is illegal, isn't it?

Tommy: I think it is. Oh yeah, it definitely is. It's not their property. The guy bought it, but I don't know the full detail and I kind of, it was noisy when I was in the cafe, but they said that one of the guys hacked into the, he, sorry, he got into some kind of land ownership document and got his name onto it. He changed some details on it. That was what I, either he's just bullshitting, but maybe this is happening. I mean, it's like, yeah, there's squatters law, but I don't think that's, Right, maybe they were on it before he bought it. Maybe that's what happened. But how fuck would that be? Basically, the dude was too scared to do anything to these people because they're psychos. And whether you get the police onto them— he said it was out towards the airport.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Um, so you get— that's the thing, right? It's like police can do a lot, but you also— I remember growing up as a kid, there was some dudes that you wouldn't want to fuck with. And sure, you could probably beat them up one-on-one but if you beat them up one-on-one, they've got a bunch of mates that will get together and they're relentless. It's like, I'm more scared of someone who's a bit more of a psychopath than someone who's just a bit muscly and is, you know, not really care.

Josh: People are crazy.

Tommy: There's some crazy people out there.

Josh: I saw online, there was a, I was gonna say on Twitter, but I wasn't on Twitter. I was on the, I wasn't logged into Twitter 'cause I'm off social media, But I landed on a Twitter video. Twitter video.

Tommy: Oh yeah. Well, 'cause you can look at Twitter without being logged in.

Josh: And that's what I've been doing. I've been having like some selected bits that I'll go in, like I'll go into a search, which is the Daily Talk Show to see if anyone's tweeting us just so I'm across it.

Tommy: What's how you found that, which we never talked about, that super lovely blog post that was like hundreds and hundreds of words.

Josh: Yeah, a guy in Canada.

Tommy: Yeah, written about the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: Should we write back to him?

Tommy: Oh yes, we have to. I just totally—

Josh: I didn't write back yet.

Tommy: I've totally—

Josh: 'Cause I was trying to work out what to, you know, when someone does something so nice. Yeah. How about this? Bree got a call from, Bree's boss got a call from one of her colleagues, said, "Oh, hi, I'm not gonna be able to come in today because my sister," has just bought me a brand new car. Wow. And I'm in shock.

Tommy: Okay, that's it. I mean, she did get a means to get to work. She was gifted a mean—

Josh: Could you imagine that? Just getting a car and it was like, I was like, what sort of car? And Brew described the car and it was like a new, it was like a good car. Yeah. It's such a, I just feel like it's such a funny thing to happen.

Tommy: All I can hear is, barefoot in the background. That's financial child, that's financial abuse.

Josh: Yeah, that financial child abuse.

Tommy: Financial child abuse.

Josh: Yeah, that's what he says.

Tommy: Which he says about parents who buy their kids their first car.

Josh: What would you, based on the, if you were super rich, I feel like everyone's had the super rich thought in their head of when I'm rich, I'm gonna buy this person this, this person that.

Tommy: Oh, we talked about it last night. So mum and dad, because we're heading up to Sydney this weekend, Christmas in Sydney, which you'll be coming up for.

Josh: We got Matt D'Avella on the show.

Tommy: Yeah, so next week Josh is coming up to Sydney. That's another conversation.

Josh: Christmas Day will be the episode with Matt D'Avella.

Tommy: So we saw mum and dad for the last time for the year.

Josh: For the year?

Tommy: Oh no, actually we'll be back before the end of the year. So saw them the last time before we don't spend Christmas Day with them. Yeah. And mum said, oh, here's your present, hands over an envelope and says, you know, Merry Christmas. Just if you win, give us a million bucks, please.

Josh: Really? I thought it was going to be a voucher to the pizza shop that does your arse. I was going to say, mate, we're not too dissimilar.

Tommy: So she bought Amy and I one of the tickets for like the— it's in Australia, it's the 29th of December or the 30th. Is like this fucking mega draw. It's, I mean, 30 million. It's quite a big one. There's bigger ones, but every year they do the same one. And so, but it was the conversation which when you have, I'm sure you've had it. If you've ever had a Tatts Lotto ticket, you've bought it with someone or within your family, been gifted it. What will you do with it? And we said 30 million bucks. I think it's, it would be fair to give a million bucks to each one within our immediate families. So Amy's sister and brother and mum, million bucks each. My mum and dad, my brother and my two brothers, million bucks each. You're still left with a fuckload of money. Yeah, which is pretty good. I mean, I've also gone down the rabbit hole. What's happening with the business?

Josh: Well, because what I'm curious about, big media company, so you've got $30 mil.

Tommy: We would not be We would be traveling, would be making videos.

Josh: So what do you have to do?

Tommy: I'd buy a space for us.

Josh: So what sort of commitment are you making to the business?

Tommy: I'd keep doing the business. It would shift, would just be making documentaries.

Josh: So you would inject a bit of—

Tommy: I don't know if I'd even need, I mean, yes, I would buy, I'd pay for a bunch of stuff. I'll probably give you a million bucks. That's what you want? Josh, you've just got a million bucks. I've said it on records. That's probably legal now.

Josh: Well, that's as good as me getting my own ticket now.

Tommy: Yeah, and so I won $30 million and I've given away.

Josh: So does that mean if just, just in case something happens and you won $15 million, say like it's split, it's on the table, bro, $15 million, would you, would you give me half a mil? Yeah, does it work? I'm sure there's probably diminishing returns. Yeah, what's that? I wonder what the percentage would work. So $30 mil, you were saying a mil, so that means yeah, if you won a million by the end of it, if you won $300, if you won You know we don't do maths on the show because it fucks us. $300,000.

Tommy: Okay, so yeah, when I, I think if it—

Josh: So if you won $300,000, would you give all of you, your family members including me, $10 grand each?

Tommy: No, I couldn't. I think I would do something really nice, some big thing like, um, a nice, like imagine this, a family trip. We spend $10K.

Josh: Where are we going?

Tommy: You're not in my family, dog. You're my business family, but my real family—

Josh: Double life.

Tommy: $10K family holiday for my my brother's—

Josh: Where the fuck are you going?

Tommy: I don't know, we'll just do something sick. Imagine, I mean, we could spend $10K so easily flying to Byron, getting a nice house, food, transfers, everything.

Josh: If you're spending $10K though, it's not, it will get you there, probably the accommodation, and then you're gonna—

Tommy: You could do something nice that's like, yeah, here's the thing.

Josh: So has it ever happened to you? Have you ever had someone win big and give you a little bit of coin.

Tommy: I've never got— I've got it— never got a bunch of coins. My mum's friend won Tattslotto and she came over.

Josh: Oh, that's right, you told me.

Tommy: And she's like, have a look at this. And I'm like, what are you showing me a fucking cheque for? And then she moves her hand and it's a little Tattslotto man, you know, the dude with the hat on. Yeah, that smug dude who's keeping all the cash for himself.

Josh: Yeah, Monopoly man.

Tommy: Yeah, little Monopoly. Yeah, it's a bit indulgent, is it? I'm the fat conductor. Anyway, she won $80 grand, I think it was, which was pretty fucking cool. She was so happy.

Josh: Because Christian Hull, who we've had on the show—

Tommy: oh, that's right—

Josh: he won a bunch of cash. I think it was about $10 grand. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I mean, still, like, I don't know how much you're giving away. If I got a $10 grand job now that all went to my pocket, there's no chance I'm giving it away to people.

Josh: Do you think there's something, uh, bogan about lotto?

Tommy: 100%. Seth Godin talks about the chances of winning lotto. Like when you look at the chance of winning lotto, it's up there, it's down there or up there, whatever way, of becoming a fucking pop star, a famous pop star. Like the chance of actually becoming a famous pop star is probably the same as lotto. Like it's so low.

Josh: So bogans that they call, you know, we say, if you were to describe a bogan, what are they? They'll have a mullet.

Tommy: Don't talk about my son like that.

Josh: They got a mullet maybe. They're just, Describe a bogan for people playing at home.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, this is the problem. We could offend some people.

Josh: That's okay. You'd—

Tommy: you would think a bogan—

Josh: they get excited about gyros.

Tommy: About your mum? Now you're describing your mum. For me, I don't know a flat-out bogan. I feel like a bogan to me is someone so strapped into the matrix that they don't know what's happening. So the Matrix is all these people in this world that's actually been decided for them. Josh is yawning.

Josh: I didn't do it purposely. I know, but it was so timely.

Tommy: No, okay, the Matrix.

Josh: No, it's got nothing to do— take the Matrix off the table for a second.

Tommy: Bogans aren't enlightened. I think Bogans tapped in, they are reactive to, I want the boat. You know, I work 9 to 5 and I live for the weekend. Maybe that's a bit, maybe not.

Josh: I think bogans describe life based on The Matrix and you do it a lot.

Tommy: Nah, fuck off. I think a bogan's someone who hasn't seen The Matrix.

Josh: Absolutely not. The bogan is someone who watches The Matrix every weekend.

Tommy: Okay, let me just, let's start here because then we can work backwards to our own definitions. This is according to Wikipedia.

Josh: Wikipedia, not even Urban Dictionary.

Tommy: No, I'll get— I should pull out the urban one. Good, the urban one's here too. So bogan is an Australian and New Zealand slang for a person whose speech, clothing, attitude, and behaviour are considered unrefined or unsophisticated. Depending on the context, the term can be pejorative or self-deprecating. I haven't heard that word. Pejorative.

Josh: Spell it for us.

Tommy: P-E-J-O-R-A-T-I-V-E. German Watts, if you've used that in some of your copywriting, I'll be impressed. I've never seen that ever.

Josh: Do you want to bring back word of the day? Copy and paste it into Google.

Tommy: Yeah, I will, but I want to also give the meaning based on Urban Dictionary, which is like the stupid funny dictionary. "A fascinating beast." Written by Bogan. "The majority of the species are hideously repugnant and unintelligent, and yet they manage to breed in ever-increasing numbers and populate an area known as the Outer West." Well, not Outer West, Southeast is a lot like where I grew up, a lot of Bogans. "It is quite common to find 5 or 6 offspring in each family group." often with a different father for each new baby. Their habitat consists of a weatherboard or brick veneer dwelling and is characterised by an early model Holden or Forward in the driveway surrounded by a group of males discussing why their carby is stuffed and the results of last night's footy. The female of the species, while smaller in stature, is far more loud and aggressive than the male. While the males tend to be very friendly and congregate with other males, or congregate with other males. The females spend most of their time in the supermarkets and shopping malls using a shrill high-pitched call to discipline their children and contact other females. We walked past—

Josh: Sharon, get over here! We actually walked past a bogan before. The lady—

Tommy: can we reenact it? I'm the male leading the front, so his tummy's Tommy's walking in front. I'm walking in front, there's a bit of a swagger.

Josh: This bogan, this, how would you describe her?

Tommy: Let's call her Tracy. Tracy. Okay, so Tracy's walking behind.

Josh: Tracy's walking behind.

Tommy: She's overweight, she's got tats on her arms.

Josh: A fat bogan is what we'd call in Australia, maybe.

Tommy: Yeah, and so anyway, Trace, come on.

Josh: So Tracy was walking behind What's his name?

Tommy: Tyrone.

Josh: Tyrone. And she just walked past and she said, and this is as we're walking past, she goes, did you fucking fart?

Tommy: No.

Josh: She's like, well, something stinks. And what she was referring to was there was some drain or whatever.

Tommy: So it's like the underneath of a pub where they send the kegs down into. It's like stinks down there. It's been, yeah, it's a smell corner of Easy Street and Smith Street. Fact.

Josh: So the thing with, so what I was gonna say, Tatts Lotto, I think my parents, my dad has been getting a Tatts Lotto ticket every week for 30 years.

Tommy: My mom, my mom too. Here's the thing, I don't think, I think my mom and dad and your mom and dad probably can afford it. They've raised 3 good children and they own a house and all this stuff. The reality is though, when I remember living in Shepparton and I was in a little town called Tootura, one of the best vanilla slices known to man in Tootura from the Tootura Hot Bread Bakery. Lovely family that own that. Anyway, I was in at the newsagents and there's this guy that, it was Thursday, dole money's come through, which is Thursdays.

Josh: And he's spending it all.

Tommy: And he's literally like, he spent $150 on tickets.

Josh: I remember having, getting right into the scratchies when I was a kid. Oh yeah. Mum would buy them. And the thing is, they get you because they give you little rewards.

Tommy: It's like win the dollar.

Josh: Yeah, so it's a, it's a dollar ticket and you make your money back.

Tommy: Yeah. Um, do you want me to do the word of the day?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, pejorative, expressing contempt or disapproval. It's too big for my brain.

Josh: That's good. Yeah, the, um, so we used to, if you listen back to the Daily Talk Show earlier apps, we used to have a segment called Word of the Day. Yeah.

Tommy: Do you think we even came close to formulating a description of bogans?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: I think the mullet is pretty fair.

Josh: It's a bit like rednecky. It's slightly racist. Well, rednecks tend to be racist by nature. Nature, I think. Maybe in the wild. But I think there is also pushback in The hipster stuff too, like people, the pushing back on bogans. If you say someone's bogan or that sort of thing, a lot of people I think nowadays will think that you're a bit of a yuppy or a bit of a hipster who thinks they're too good for everyone.

Tommy: I've definitely got some bogan in me.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I think you do too. You were taking off my accent and I said, why the fuck do you always take off my, like everything I say, I think it's a result of just hanging around that one person so often that you just can find any little fucking thing to pull them up on. And so you make fun of, well, how is it? Do my voice.

Josh: I don't know, you just have just a—

Tommy: It's like, say if I say something that has a bit more of a th, and I, like, I don't even think I do this a lot.

Josh: It's a bit of a lispy, there's a lispiness to it.

Tommy: I don't think I speak like that.

Josh: But it's also maybe like your O's are rounder.

Tommy: Yeah, so you're saying I maybe because I grew up in Brighton that I have Brighton like that.

Josh: But I think that's the way that people say Brighton.

Tommy: Brighton. Brighton.

Josh: There's elements like, just turn around the roundabout.

Tommy: Oh yeah, it's almost English. I don't think I fit there. Maybe it's like I've got little English coming in and out. And then you were like, no, but I've got mine. I'm real Aussie or something. It's like they're from the burbs. I think there definitely is a bit of that, but I think we've all got the bogan in us.

Josh: Yeah, I just, I think that there's something bogan about getting angry at things, really, like road rage. There's something really bogan about road rage.

Tommy: I think it's tapped into the matrix. You have no perspective on reality, that maybe it's just like shit's not happening properly.

Josh: Do you think it's bogan I get upset when my glasses are dirty?

Tommy: I'll tell you who was a bogan.

Josh: I get real angry. Who?

Tommy: Who embodied a bogan.

Josh: Are you gonna get us in trouble? No, no, no, we were—

Tommy: no, no, I don't know them, we just saw them. So we were sitting at— Josh and I were sitting in a cafe in Elwood and there was this dude who just looked— he was like, he was trying to fix a drill and he was just, he was in his tradie attire, he'd just been smoking a durry and then he's pressure and ah, and he just looked like he was getting angrier and angrier and then he see— he pulled out of his— got in his car, drove off to try and get another park somewhere, and next minute we look over, it's the same dude. What did we call him? Angry— we called him something.

Josh: Yeah, we gave him a nickname.

Tommy: We gave him a nickname, but he's having a blow-up with this woman. Yeah, who was probably just trying to park, and he's fucking flipping out.

Josh: And he's in like the work ute.

Tommy: Oh man, he's in a branded work car.

Josh: So something very bogan— in Australia we drive on the left-hand side. Yeah, something very bogan is zooming on the right-hand side, and especially if you're in a ute and you, um, flashing lights or fucking— what is it called when you get real close to someone's bum?

Tommy: Tailgating.

Josh: Tailgating. Yeah, tailgating is so bogey.

Tommy: And so we're kind of like looking at this guy, going, fuck, he's angry. And then he came back and he was talking to his boss because his boss witnessed the whole thing, and it was nothing to do with him. It was not his fault. He's kicking— ah, she's a fuck. You know, like he's just angry. And then we walked to the 7-Eleven, we see him looking in the bin and he'd obviously dropped something into the bin. And I'm like, oh, he's whatever, Angry Tony or something. We walked up and he's just like, fuck it, fuck it, left it in there.

Josh: But it wasn't even like he had some form of disorder or anything. The only thing he had was bogan. Like, I think, don't you think?

Tommy: Like it wasn't—

Josh: He was angry.

Tommy: He was just— the world was pissing him off big time and he wasn't up for it. And he walked out with a coffee, not even a $1 7-Eleven coffee. It was a—

Josh: $1 coffee is very bogan.

Tommy: Yeah, but I think there's a— what's more bogan is Ice Break coffee. Yeah, double shot. Yeah, and that's what he had. And he got a packet of ciggies.

Josh: Big M's bogan.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: I mean, 3 other things that are bogan.

Tommy: 3 other things that are big—

Josh: You can't just repeat what I said.

Tommy: Tradie attire on the weekends. Yeah. That's pretty, pretty bogan. Shinglet tan is pretty Australian bogan. But I've been a tradie and I—

Josh: Have you been a tradie?

Tommy: Yeah, I was a landscape, a landscaper.

Josh: Did you ever really feel like you were a tradie though?

Tommy: It was my exit plan out of school. So I committed. My dad—

Josh: But that's all you, in Australia, that's the only option you really had. You really have, isn't it? If you go to like, there was a programme called Connections in school. It was VCal. Yeah, VCal.

Tommy: Yeah, I did VCal.

Josh: So VCal is essentially like, that's if you're rather than doing VCE, which is like the Victorian Certificate of Education, you can do this.

Tommy: What is it?

Josh: Victorian? It's like basically out of school plan.

Tommy: Basically, it's a good thing by the government to go, you just can't drop out. It's not legal for you to just fucking pull the pin.

Josh: So you did VCal?

Tommy: No, I did for like 2 months and then I got— and then I got—

Josh: You dropped out of VCal? That's next level.

Tommy: Well, no, I left school. I don't even remember.

Josh: So you have to do VCal for a certain period of time and then they let you drop out?

Tommy: No, because if you leave to get an apprenticeship— so it was like year 11 for me, I left to get an apprenticeship. So I entered the workforce.

Josh: With your dad?

Tommy: Yeah, with my dad. So he got me on.

Josh: Was it a bit of a joke apprenticeship where it's like, look, I'm gonna sign these papers for you?

Tommy: No, it was never talk like that, 'cause it's, in fairness, I probably wasted my old man's time, 'cause we have, you know, we employ ourselves and we know what it's like to get contractors and there's a lot of rigmarole.

Josh: Did he have any employees or was he?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, he had a bunch.

Josh: So he had employees?

Tommy: Up to 5 at one point. He had a couple when I was doing it.

Josh: And what were you doing when you were?

Tommy: You're just a first year apprentice as a landscape yardie. You're shoveling, you're doing barrows, you'd last a day. It's so hard.

Josh: What were you like in those circumstances? Did you get along with your dad when you were working?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. I think what I actually found hard in hindsight is being, so losing any kind of input. So you are a worker, so you don't have any control or creative input to how the garden's being, put together, which I didn't want. But what I realise now of being a creative is actually what I love and where I thrive is being able to craft it, not just bring the soil and dump it down. It'd be the equivalent of us just dropping a colour grade onto fucking footage where you're, you're wanting to say, why are you putting the daisies there? No, I didn't even want that then. But what I realised going back is it was so unfulfilling for me. For one, it was just you know, work. And my dad loves it. He's a nerd. He's a fucking plant nerd, knows all the plants. He's like one of those apps, you look at it, you scan the plant and it tells you what it is.

Josh: Does he like native plants?

Tommy: Loves it all. He studies it. I remember as a kid watching him, like he's just reading books about it. Loves getting out to scratch. And so it's actually a passion. I left and did personal training, which was more aligned with—

Josh: Personal training?

Tommy: No, you craft the session.

Josh: Bit bogan sometimes.

Tommy: Yeah, there was a bunch of bogans in my class.

Josh: Why, what attracts bogans to PT? 'Cause there are really great PTs as well. You've got like the Craig Harper at the pinnacle, not that he does PT anymore, but then it sort of goes down to like exercise scientists, people who are really into the body and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: Maybe it's the easy stuff. Maybe it's the easy, like it's not hard to be a PT these days, do an 8-week course. But it's why most of the bogans I did it with aren't doing it anymore, but they're lovely people. So what I was trying to get at with working for dad was being a tradie, I was, you slip into bogan. Like I think it's the people you're around.

Josh: Did you do smoko?

Tommy: Yeah, we did smoko.

Josh: What would you have?

Tommy: Toasty sandwiches, we'd actually have the toasted sandwich maker. So it'd bring just like, yeah, it was awesome. So you might just put the tomato in a separate bowl bit, but you'd have your cheese, your bread, your ham all put together, ready to fucking whack straight in with a bit of butter. And, um, but it is— I, uh, perfect example. I went to school with a kid from a wealthy family, not a bogan. He now owns a farm, uh, running cattle. And it's not Rupert. No, it's not Rupert. It's not Rupert. I was with him over the weekend and his accent, oh wow. It's like he's been on a remote island with a bunch of other bogans and he's caught the bogan twang.

Josh: Because country doesn't equal bogan, does it? Regional, or do you think that there's a correlation?

Tommy: Not, no. There is some trendy people from living in a place like Sydney.

Josh: Rupert is not a bogan, 100% not a bogan.

Tommy: Well, I think it's a part of his surroundings. I think you could classify So if we take—

Josh: Can you not call Rupert a bogan please?

Tommy: No, here we go. If we take the negative out of the term bogan, so we're not actually saying they're a fuckwit, they're angry. It's like, no, they're just the more quintessential Australian.

Josh: The accent's a bit thicker, like, "Oh yeah, mate." And so the pushback on a lot of people like Scott Pape, I think sees me as a bit of a hipster fuck. Well, like when, 'cause I don't know anything. He's closer to bogan in some regards.

Tommy: Well, the non-negative Australiana grew up in a place that's the hottest town in Victoria, lived in Bendigo. So like—

Josh: Has the Australian flag in his office. That's pretty uncommon to have. Like you think about the US, the American flag is everywhere. Why is it, do you think, that patriotism is huge?

Tommy: Yeah, is celebrated in the US.

Josh: Yeah, but it's also a little bit bogan if if it's in Australia.

Tommy: Yeah, so what I look at is Casey Neistat going through the harbour, big YouTuber, on a wakeboard holding a big American flag. So bogan. I tell you what, you do that, it's not bogan for the Americans, it's patriotism, it's fucking great. You love your country. You do that in the Sydney harbour, you're like, bro, pull your fucking head in, you're a bogan. Isn't it funny? Because then I think the, so what I was getting back to is like out, You know, you're referring to Rupert that this Australiana could be mistaken as bogan, like the negative connotation of bogan.

Josh: It's— Well, no, but I think there's probably a differentiating factor between, and there might be a risk in associating bogan with these regional qualities because I think that there's probably a little bit of overlap. But I also don't think Scott's that bogan, like he's not bogan, he's like refined. In a lot of ways, he's a writer, he does all that sort of thing. But there's certain characteristics that Bogan people would do, which can also be done by people in the country.

Tommy: I'm happy to say I'm part Bogan.

Josh: Yeah, I am too. But that's why I think the thing is maybe the pushback people have is that I push my Boganism away. Yeah. I don't necessarily, I don't lead with my Bogan. But then I feel like at moments like, hey, like, So you know, I grew up in Endeavour Hills next to Dandenong and I'm— it's still in me.

Tommy: It's like the rapper who was from the hood who now lives in Beverly Hills trying to— don't worry guys, I was a gangbanger one day.

Josh: People think I'm Jay-Z essentially, maybe.

Tommy: Uh, there's a Bogan deep dive, wasn't it?

Josh: That was— I enjoyed that. There's a Bogan banter, is the name of the episode. Two things. Yes. The ham, what's going on?

Tommy: Oh yeah, to be honest, I forgot.

Josh: Need to deliver it on Friday. You've got two days.

Tommy: No, that's fine. It's being delivered.

Josh: So can you have an update tomorrow with exactly how we're doing it? Yeah. 'Cause I don't know Rob Ward's movements. I'm guessing he's still gonna be around.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But we need that delivered by Friday. Seth Godin.

Tommy: Yeah, how's the book going? I hadn't asked you, and I worry because you're a guy that likes to vocalise his success to his mates.

Josh: What does that mean?

Tommy: Oh, you're just like, mate, I'm fucking choochin' through it, getting really close.

Josh: I've never said choochin'. That's bogan. Choochin' is bogan.

Tommy: You just called Jimmy, Conspiracy Jimmy, a bogan. He says choochin'. Maybe a bogan nicknames everything. So it's like, hi, I'm Josh. J-Boy, how are you, mate?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Tommy, TJ.

Josh: There's definitely, I think we are all, it'd be great to find a bogan expert. Yeah. We should try and find that. So anyway.

Tommy: 'Cause it's almost like mockery, these fucking definitions.

Josh: They're not taking it seriously.

Tommy: We've read it, yeah. And we take shit seriously here, right?

Josh: So the, this is marketing book that I am writing. We need, oh, that's right. What's today, Wednesday?

Tommy: Today is Wednesday.

Josh: We're meant to have the website already up for it. We'll sort that out for, for, um, before the end of the week, but you'll be able to—

Tommy: Mr. 97, if you're listening—

Josh: yeah, we'll be able to bid. So current bid's at $500 for the entire book, sorry, handwritten by me.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: I'm only— I'm embarrassed to say I'm only at page 15. Why?

Tommy: Because you were pretty certain on doing an hour and a half.

Josh: So I This is my problem and this happened to me in school. I start saying, "Hmm, I know I said an hour a night, but it's gonna take me 30 hours to do all up. So if I just do the last 10 days, I do 3 hours a day." This is my problem. So anyway, I need to just get into the writing.

Tommy: 3 hours a day?

Josh: No, 3 hours a day, 3 hours a day.

Tommy: We just took out a WorkCover policy. It won't claim, you can't fucking pull a claim of, I've pulled 5 discs from writing this. Tommy's torturing me. But you're a director too. Nah, he fucking told me to do it.

Josh: It's a real bogan thing. There is something—

Tommy: told me to steal it.

Josh: One thing that is bogan, compo, work compo.

Tommy: It is so bogan.

Josh: So people who like, yeah, obviously if you hurt yourself, that is, there's a fair— you are allowed—

Tommy: that's another bogan thing, insurance fraud.

Josh: Insurance fraud is so— what do you mean?

Tommy: You just have to fucking You just take out the insurance and then you say, you crash a car, full comp, I got full comp, I'll drive the car straight into a tree. I know a guy who did that, drove his Mercedes into a tree. Yeah, it was like, bro, I need fucking money.

Josh: I know someone who their car was apparently stolen and they found the engine in a hole in their backyard.

Tommy: Who did?

Josh: Like, uh, someone I went to school with, they'd fucking They pulled insurance. Buried, yeah, they did an insurance thing saying their car got stolen and they buried the engine in the back of the house.

Tommy: Hey bro, the engine's not gonna decompose, you fucking idiot.

Josh: They fucked it. It's a daily talk show. So good. HiTheDailyTalkShow.com, have we got this bogan thing right or wrong?

Tommy: No, I actually think, we've been laughing about bogan things, but we both do very bogan things. Like me having my son with a fucking mullet. That's so bogan.

Josh: But my diet is quite bogan.

Tommy: Yeah, very bogan. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com, email us what's something you've done that's bogan. Like, just own it.

Josh: Yeah, that's great.

Tommy: We can just own it. We're all fucking bogan.

Josh: Gemma's got a bit of bogan in her, 100%.

Tommy: In the nicest possible way, Gemma.

Josh: Gemma, I hope you send us through a bogan story.

Tommy: Yeah, but you— her wordsmith-like copywriting is like, that's That's high up, that lowers, it's like it counters the bogan.

Josh: It's the way that she can get into character and be the stay-at-home, you know.

Tommy: Yeah, a famous bogan, Pauline Hanson.

Josh: Yeah, see, but that's a bad, that's a racist type.

Tommy: Yeah, that's a negative end of the bogan. What is the positive end? Steve Irwin. Yes, the late great Steve Irwin, fucking one of the nicest, kindest, loving bogans that Australia has ever had.

Josh: Michelle Laurie.

Tommy: Yeah, I think she'd own a bit of bogan. She's from the Burbs.

Josh: But a good example of a non-racist, friendly bogan. Buddhist. Yeah, a Buddhist bogan. So I think there is, there's definitely people who are, yeah, got their shit together, they're lovely. Yeah, Scott for example. I'm standing by the Scott thing, by the way.

Tommy: We should do Bogan Hall of Fame.

Josh: We could definitely do a bogan banter, some form of. Yeah. Once a week have a bogan on. It's hard having that conversation because I think a lot of people don't want to associate with being bogan.

Tommy: I think if you recognise yourself as a bogan, that's actually bogan in itself because it's self-deprecating. A bogan is pretty self-deprecating.

Josh: But I think there's probably some fraudster bogans who are trying to relate to other bogans to sell them stuff. Yeah, like stubby holders. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, anything else? I feel like, oh, Thanks to everyone who has rated us in the last day. We've had a couple of people rate us through iTunes.

Tommy: Ask and you shall receive.

Josh: Yeah, feel free to leave a review. Just go into the podcast app if you're using the purple podcast app on the iPhone.

Tommy: And if you're doing it based on this episode, can you thread the word bogan into the description?

Josh: That'd be great.

Tommy: Just so we know, it's a little golden nugget. It's Josh, 'cause he doesn't have social media, he likes to read them.

Josh: So it's like, I spend way too much time.

Tommy: I love those guys and how they just delve into deep topics like bogan banter, you know.

Josh: Yeah, or maybe they're not that, like, the perfect mix of bogan and— yeah, bros. All right, mate, it's a daily talk show. Have a good one, guys.