- November 28, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Wednesday November 28 (Ep 227) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we chat about being guests on The Ground Up Show with Matt D’Avella, deciding what to share of ourselves on the podcast, questions on retiring from social media and doubling down on toe content.
Our episode on The Ground Up Show – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQQPuQtIg4o
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Wait a minute, cross face.
conversation, sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket. It's a daily Talk Show Episode 227 from a park bench podcasting from a park bench. That's what this is in Melbourne. So we're just on the fringe of the CBD. We're right near the Parliament House. Which I don't know what goes down, I guess Parliament meetings. Yeah, the state state parliament. Yeah, but we've been walking through the city and I feel like we if you were just observed as if you were a private investigator following us didn't know who we were. And we're seeing the what we were doing and how we like looking around looking low. Looking high. Walking into Mac is not now not here. Went to Grand Hyatt. Yeah, check five star hotel.
Square did the like we look like full blown junkie. But what we were looking out for were power outlets. Yes. So we could do the podcast but we managed to get batteries. And this is a nice setting. It's nice and relaxed podcasting from a park bench. You might be new to the podcast really rare that we say that? Yeah, we don't. But we've had a whole bunch of new listeners. So yeah, we probably should say that. Well, we've we've been seeing some new listeners plus today. You as we're walking in the city, you had a bit of a moment because today's the day that our episode on the ground up show Matt developers podcast comes in. Yeah. Right. Who made the minimalism documentary? And he dropped our episode. We haven't seen it yet. So when this is out, it will be out. Yeah. But I'm not gonna watch it back because it's a video podcast. And we haven't done a heap of other people's podcasts. We hundred percent haven't done anyone else's podcast that was videoed. Yeah. So
It's, it was a bit of a new thing. Here's my goal. Some of the comments will be saying, what is that bloke keep looking at that other bloke? Maybe you looking at me looking at you. It's so funny. It's we've become very close. And I think you do after doing podcast every single day for over 200 episodes. It's like your girlfriend or your partner, your safe person.
Or good you like it more comfortable for me to eyeball the side of your head than it is to look at the guest or like while you're talking to Matt, I'm looking. I'm looking at you because I'm like, such a weird thing to be in the confines of a small house filming so closely. It's It's weird, man. But you were walking along, I think on colon straight in Melbourne. Yeah. And your end. Yeah, Paris and caressing the fancy and we're all Gucci and Armani and, you know, Lewis futon outside. Did you know that
Yeah, because I remember I did a video for a friend who was in radio and she wanted to make it onto TV. And so we had to create like a real.
But she didn't have any TV work yet. So we just went to a bunch of places and just had a saying, now we're at the Paris and I yeah. And then we'll see but doesn't get much better.
A little bit of that I made a made on to TV. No, she focused more on radio, she ended up having like three kids.
So you're walking along and you dropped what I consider to be a pretty big question. Yeah. Well, I, I had thoughts about it. And I wanted to gauge what your response would be, to see how my thoughts and feelings were placed based on what you're saying. And what I said to you was, it was like, you're trying you're like, you've got a new partner. You've got some weird kink, and you're just testing the waters like Gary was saying that he is
absolutely loves when I can't think it's awesome gets really read. Yeah, he loves like just getting slapped on the bum. What do you reckon?
It was far from anything is that you're pitching it up? I think I've just just had this thought, yeah. Because I think if you if you have a feeling or a thought, and it I mean, it's not solidified, but it's happened for a reason. So you're just testing the waters to see if they've been having the same thinking. And I thinking was based around some, you know, based around the length of the amount of episodes we've done, the type of podcasts we've been creating over the last couple of weeks, some conversations that we've had outside of this, and coinciding with Matt de Villiers episode dropping where we're getting a little bit we're being asked essentially, and I guess what I was saying was, do you think we should should
We doubled down on us and taught us actually.
Can you fix a little fluffy thing? Just we're not getting any wind, but just in case it's so windy here in Melbourne today? Yeah, you wouldn't be hearing it. So how do I serve it up? So the way that you served it up was it was like, maybe we dial it back wasn't doubling down, the doubling down came after. Okay, okay. That was the didn't say, I don't think we should spank. It was like,
thinking like, maybe spankings a thing. And so and then I said, so the way that you pitched it up was you're basically saying, look, maybe now that we're starting to get a bit of an audience. Does that make sense for you say talking about your ingrown toenail? Yeah, and not that I have pushback on that because I think the banter and the fun we have is something I actually enjoy, but I guess it's this conflicting thing of going as you sort of get bigger which we were not like Matt Damon
Listen to Iran. If you're listening, Matt, congrats, bro because when we're on your show you had 200,000
subscribers you got like over 650,000 now and the only thing that happened during that time was we released our episode with him with him. So, yeah, we did it potentially No, but I guess so it would make more sense in this conversation if if you were him and I see how it happens and you see being people they totally become not who they were when they started. But I but I feel inside of my should should we should we sort of just pull back on some of that stuff to maybe cater to a few more people? Well, it's I think it's based on the the idea that we
Yeah, Seth was talking about it a little bit around like you don't actually need to authenticity is overrated. That the that I think it was authenticity. It was that idea that he's an argument is that
If I, someone's a pilot arrives at work and he doesn't feel or he or she doesn't feel like flying the plane, then I'd say guys, being true to myself and being authentic, I'm not gonna fly, you just do it. And so, in regards to this, it's like, it's a fair question which is like it's not changing you it's not being someone else. That may be spanking you doesn't really hit where we're trying to, you
know, but I think it'd be easy to double down on being May, but then there's the feeling of not to you though place.
No, but it's like the saying, Be unapologetically you. Yeah. Which I think maybe I'm apologising for being me in this moment where I feel like reflecting on some things that you do or how we've shifted this podcast over the 200 episodes,
Not a great deal dropped a lot of the same bombs out of the off the off the platform which is good. Yeah, but there's sometimes things that we say that either it's we haven't thought them through but I think we're getting better at it what's but I think that it's you don't even necessarily have like you read I think I realised that he say things all the time that you don't actually believe that much we just say shit and like it happens and then the difference is that this is recorded this is like someone can go back and listen to all the shit that we said and they can be like if you circle around this thing he actually sounds like a bit of a pig Yeah. Do you think this is why people pull the pin on? Maybe it's one of the projects maybe like the social media thing we didn't you you said we've got an email from Kyle yeah boy called Anders. He's emailed his height the daily talk show.com you said that it said de Josh. It was a very formal Yeah, he was kept saying
I'ma cut Can you explain for our audience cut saying is
like, which is actually don't know he's not saying that Oh, it is cut sandwiches cut Sanger? Yeah. Might, if you can help me know where that's from. I'm going to be lyst like me instals Yeah, he said de Josh. How is social media retirement treating you? I'm fascinated by your decision. I've had a few social media detoxes myself, that thought that quitting was a bit too dramatic dramatic after weighing up the pros and cons. I have a few questions fully. You ready guys? So to give people context, if you haven't listened, I've decided to retire from social media. And now I'm just Tommy's got a bit of a Slurpee. 711 Is it good? Is it a low sugar low? Okay, yummy.
gripe is real chemically. I say, I get it. So I went ok. So the year I decided to
double down on my blog on this podcast and get rid of all my social and it wasn't based on something he put out a road or sin and he has to tone it down. Yeah, no, I haven't I haven't been made to it or anything.
You've got rid of it. And I and I haven't trolled you, like I have in the past when you've been thinking about it. It's like you're ready. Yeah. It's so what's the what's the questions that Carl has in mind? I've been off social media for two and a half days, which I'm sure there's a lot of people enough days no more than that.
happened on Sunday night. Wow. If it's a heavy miss me, what's happened Instagram's change things that are horizontal storeys. Now. What so what's called a decide you've been good that you haven't gone back? No, I'm not. I've literally on my bio. It says, retired from social media. It's good. It's good. You just wanted to keep the user and that's why you've got it like that. Number one, how long were you stewing over it for
I read I deleted tweet out my Twitter account in 2009 my like so I had it and then I got rid of it yes so I had it in oh I got rid of it in oh nine and quickly came back it has been on my social the idea that being obsessed with social media
as a problem has been top of mind for a lot longer I think then other people remember that blow up we had in
LA which one which one it was a bad like our kind of guy I said he goes a bit fucking main I said here we go something like what it was about we just dropped this episode and you will pump to see the reaction and oh yes yes it fit now because basically it was like I just made a little troll and I thought I was being funny but it was a bit passive and it was a bit rude won't know because I think that what happened was I was I had just been
put up a post. And I was then getting it out everywhere and looking at it. And I said, we've lost him. Yeah, we lost him. And my whole point of it was I was like, I was doing it to like better what we were doing. So I was sort of like, hang on, I would also like to go out and fucking go to a cafe. But I'm getting this done because what we've committed to doing and and the and the reason I bring that up is because it It plays into that, I guess, need feel feeling that you need to be doing it. And that is the response. So you're waiting, obviously putting something you're shipping something and then you wanting to sort of get feedback. See, we'll see how it's interacting. I mean, you don't get that anymore. That's why it's very awesome because I think that so to answer calls question started thinking about the lady social media in 2009, did for a short period of time, brought it back. This was at a time where when I started using Twitter, you would text message, your tweet and then it would just send text messages to all of your followers that
I used to work with and so it was all text but like it was, I had Twitter before an iPhone. I was using a Nokia slide phone it was colour. Yeah. But um, so now so shitload of time and now in terms of just that response and not Yeah. Do you think
that, like when we put things at you? You may see it two days in now. I mean, no, because I feel like it's um, I was getting so much anxiety around like people reaching out to me, whereas I much prefer it was because it was diet diluted across lots of in boxes. Yeah, so someone would Instagram DM me, another person would jump on Reddit, another person would Facebook message me. I'll get an email a text message of WhatsApp. And it was just fucking too many things. Yeah. All right. Number two. What specific social media platforms are you retiring from? So Instagram and Facebook with it? The ones that took the most amount of energy and like deleted your Twitter, or you deleted all your tweets? Yeah, sorry. Instagram, Twitter.
LinkedIn, I haven't worked out what to do with yet. It's there. I was thinking of just updating. It's there in case big media company goes pear shaped and he needs to get a job through his network. Now what what I was thinking is maybe I just put in the description, retired from social media if you need me contact this number. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Three. Do you intend to grow your blogs readership? If so, how do you envisage this growth happening without social media? So this is my thought. My Instagram I have had since 2011. And I have 1700 followers. Yeah. That's not many at all. And if you look at how much the engagement was there, I think that I was kidding myself into thinking that it was anything more than a few friends liking my shit. Yeah. And so my my thought behind it is that rather than popping into people's feeds, I want people to seek out what I'm doing. Yeah.
Does that answer your question though? How do I feel shy? I take from his question how do you envisage this growth happening without social media? You could look into that question say he thinks you need to do it with social media. Yeah, so my thought is I have a podcast yet that we will be building our guests have social media, our guests have
followings, you have a following big media companies like people will still be able to consume my content. So I think that I just realised that's a guy on a skateboard.
But my idea is that the things that I'm building will have enough cut through that they will reach people and then those people will then come to my website, you've got a podcast, you've got a YouTube channel, you've got a blog. Yeah. And so I haven't done and you've actually got the thing that you can chat to Josh. Yeah, with Joshua. Josh Janssen.com. Okay, number four. Do you feel as though your retirement is a bit premature, you'll be missing out on a lot of validation when it comes to
Getting married and buying a house? It's a bit of a trial. Yeah, no, but I get it. Because I think the thing is that I
think that maybe social media has given personal moments to everyone else. Yeah. And I like the idea of just being like, I can have these moments. For some reason, I don't know if you can relate, but the podcast, and me being honest about things feels very different. I feel like people are seeking it out. I think that with social media, it feels like a judgement. A lot of times I feel like I was judging other people on social media and I felt similarly it's like it's designed by comparison, because you're flicking between things really quickly. So imagine like, you're going from like a radio station, you switching radio stations in the in the car, and there's sort of a comparison thing, where it's like with a podcast, you don't every three seconds see someone else's content alongside us. Yeah, it's not like I finished this sentence and that you're going to hear another podcast. You're going to
Keep listening to this yet. So yesterday we're at the Barefoot investors farm working on some stuff together. And one of the questions I did ask him as we were leaving was,
do you think you need to when you don't have an audience, and you're trying to grow an audience be across all platforms? And he said not not. So he's interrupting me already, which I kind of preempted what he was getting, or should you double down on one or two? Yeah, and this is the thing. He's someone that I respect. He's created Australia's number one book. It's been on the number one charts for a long time yet over 1.4 million books out. It's crazy. But I think about all the people that I respect, I think about him, I think about people like Jason Fox, I think about even what Matt was doing with the social media detox. And I just think that I'm in a prime position where I can actually build something
Else I think that if I feel like as as as Cal Newport calls that who wrote deep work as
knowledge workers we you know we have the opportunity I think to do something different I don't think just doing the same thing as everyone else yeah having a social like having a loud presence on social media doesn't feel like the answers yeah yeah pulling I were talking yesterday about pulling a Rolling Stones believe Metallica or doing nothing so pulling a Rolling Stones was what just continuing continuing doing the same thing over and over again yet pulling in metallic areas coming out with the different album might not land just completely different to what the style you did previously. Yeah. Or it getting too hard and you're not willing to play in either of those spaces. I mean, I don't feel like I've even had a first album yet. No, that's what's awesome. Like I cannot most people have it.
Yeah, that's the thing if, like, if I asked myself, What is it for? I don't think I've ever legitimately spent time to think about what is my Instagram for other than the things that you could reel off in a second, connect with mates, you know, try and promote some of the stuff I'm doing. It's kind of like, that's not the real answer. I don't think Well, I think it's also I did an article on my blog, check on article which I call it a blog post, blog posts, blog articles, probably a bit wonky bit grandiose, grandiose, a bit like
Joshua fields, Milburn calls it an essay. It's, it's grander than an article. So the last one is definitely not. It's a lame, yes.
character. Yeah, that's good.
It was smaller, but it was it was about the
conflicting advice. So that's the other thing. I think that you can say the best way to build an order
is to be everywhere and make a lot of noise. Yes. And but you could also say the best way to build an audience is to double down there. We could find multiple examples of people who have done both. Yeah. As in not the both themselves, but like some over in this camp summer in that camp. I want to know, for people if you've got pushback on what I've done, I want to hear I actually want to hear poke at my theory. Hi at the daily talk. show.com. I want to hear can we have another toe update? doubling down on who we are?
We got an email from Luke. I don't know I'm not gonna say his last name. Because what he said was, it wasn't a it wasn't as a thank you, which I appreciate it. Thank you. Bills also followed up by a look down the page if you dare, which means you need to do a few thumbs growls and it comes down to Whoa, Jesus. So the thing is, he hasn't sent us an ingrown toenail.
What is it what it looks like? He said he was moving and dropped something dropped the cupboard ball moving it on to his foot. And he is in trouble right?
It's very black. But you know what I actually just had a had a thought now that we've got sort of more overseas listeners, my mate nice on went to an international school. He's from the US, right? Yeah. He said to me, he, he only knows Australians. They get ingrown toenails. Really. Do you think that's a thing? He says that all of his mates that are from different countries, none of them have ever had ingrown toenails. The only people he's like the Ozzy's constantly have them right now. I'm happy for people to send through emails about the toe thing. Keep it going. Yeah, I want to know Are you from a nation down on this whole toe content? Are you from overseas and do you have on because they definitely exist because when I decided to do self surgery,
A few years back, it was some poor American person without health insurance that had made a trip to the Where was the cold hardware store with a bit of alcohol and some pliers and
just going to trim he is no, that's horrible. And also we're wrapping up there now wasn't I was gonna say just recapping on the start maybe if you've been listening for a while or you're fresh and you feel like telling us should
have you felt that you know, conflicting feelings inside about a time where you're sort of being yourself you're putting yourself out there but you feel like maybe you should time it down slightly to not offend people or or should you double down on who you are, but isn't also the idea. We were watching. We found an old video that you and I made 10 years ago, and you are cringing at yourself. Yeah, it was horrible. I was being a
presenter yeah and and that isn't the lesson there though that like it's pretty hard to use the argument about being yourself or not being yourself because the reality is that we're not a single person that can be described in one way that we're complex characters that are constantly changing and evolving. So you're saying I'm might be evolving like a Pokemon right now? I don't know the reference for you don't know Pokemon know, Pokemon. No, I've never done Oh, come on, they evolve. Squirrel turns into Barboursville. I don't know if that's where you start? Yeah. Back in the day. I was I liked it. I liked the Gameboy. I had the game I used to play so much of it that my fucking I would hear the thing like the little noises from the Gameboy game in my head without without even playing it. But my point being in the evolving thing, I get that I look at myself back then. I was giving it the best I could. And maybe it's like
You use easy to judge the previous self or feel sheet in the moment. But as you go further you evolve around these thoughts really change a great deal Do you think that you would if you listen back to it you've listened back to a few episodes. You were expecting to cringe but you were saying you didn't cringe as much as I didn't think Yeah, but I've put in a lot of work over the years being on radio for two years and then
like I think yeah, we are being asked so I wasn't as cringe worthy. Some of the content of course Episode 14 if you haven't listened go back and listen.
You really know that some of the content might be cringe but i think i think we still sounded like we were a good night's have fun when we're talking do this because we love it. Yeah, they have good banter. Whoa. It's actually not picking up that much on the mix, but this is horrendous when I do. I do
wonder about that. And that's the thing with Instagram is I think that we position these these one dimensional things where it's like, I think like a home, your Instagram has to have a theme and you need to look a certain, you know, it's so contrived. Yeah. And so you were saying the change there is photo shoots if you probably can't hear it, but there's people yelling and doing selfies and there's like, legit two photo shoots, professional photography shoots happening simultaneously. stigmatise it. You were saying that maybe me looking back on that old stuff cringing? That was just another version of me. So this version of me isn't necessarily the rock solid version is that we? Well, I think, I think the thing is that we, we can be very judgmental of ourselves. We can be judgmental of others. I think my pushback like even the insecurity of me doing the blog was I said to you this morning, I'm like, I just felt like I was trying to be a safe dog and try hard. Yeah, but then at what point can you fucking do it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you wanted to stop
Log, if this is little chance of not. People not saying you're trying to be like Casey nice dad. Yeah. And so what do we do? Like if we is the answer, like if you're thinking about it now, it's like, I don't want to do this because this person does or what hope do you have? Yeah. What can you do? Yeah, I don't think there's much everyone. Someone in the world has done something before you. Yeah. And and so we are imitating things, but we're trying to find our voice. And so like I look at Matt, Matt is a great case study over the last six months. Yeah, the guy who has built a huge audience, and has put in the work. But as you start seeing these content, he's finding his voice. He's bringing more comedy and I just wrote on one video, though, these are faking getting funnier and funnier. Yeah. Like a Sydney a high bench, my friends, but it's because I think he's doubling down on these past as a stand up comedian. And he's
like, he's, he's being true to himself. Yeah, but I think
The The other thing too is even us doing his podcast, there's insecurities there, which is like, Look, we've only done this podcast like we've Yes, we've done over 200 episodes, but a cool way to say these things who are way too. And I think that it's also a defence mechanism to where it's like, oh, well, we just joking around too much, or do we like all of those things? Yeah. And I think that the default is to say, Well, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to put myself out there. I'm not going to start the thing. But I think that part of the reason that I've gotten rid of social media is because it's like, I actually realised Oh, that's what I want to do. It's the same reason i got i don't know dad speak about it on the show about my schnitzel. Now on Sunday.
Yeah, yeah, to talk about it. I'm really proud of it. I had a chicken schnitzel on Sunday. Yeah, at the pub. And I didn't finish it. So he's What's happening? Every
Damn photo you'd take and put up on your Instagram is now in spoken form.
That's true. No, but it was the
thing is the thing is that it? What it was making me realise is, I think that we do a lot of these things, these default things to people, please. And because we've always done it that way, and people expect us to do this thing, but it's like I was speaking to a friend this week who was saying, I fucking hate this thing that I do. And then he doesn't have to do it. And we said, Oh, you don't have to do it.
And it's a very confronting things. I think that the one thing that I gotta you gotta go deep into why you're not pulling the pin on that thing? Yeah, because it's not I have to I don't, but you don't Oh, yeah. But then what is it? I guess it's like, why have you got social media? Or because of this? Well, is it? Yeah, going deeper on that?
Because I want to build a huge following. What's one of those things that you've changed?
Just in your life in the last year that you thought that you had to do that you don't have to do anymore.
not realising it Yeah, back No, no, I got I think it's the social media stuff. I know there's some stuff around money I think it's
like a around getting my self a bit more financially stable in the sense of just being sensible on a lot of things. So so you thought What do you think beforehand and what do you think now? Didn't think a great deal it's like, I think a lot of people who hear the single you know, relationship without kids or you know, for me it was the kid thing that is really made me think and business and you know, the changes in my world that probably made me think more about it, but I still haven't made the changes completely. Like yesterday, Scott.
Pipe said to me, the guy that gives financial advice for a living. He was saying and it was this it was a really empathetic moment where he was like he was we helped him record an interview series, blueprint online subscription thing that he does around life insurance. Is that Tommy? It's Yeah, it's something you should really. He said you haven't I don't know
about you, but I get it right. If I die, yeah, my wife has a baby. Who's my baby that I won't be around to help with, and there's no income. So basically, it's about 30 bucks a week to have the understanding that you kid will be looked after financially it changes for years. It changes your life. What's important, I've always struggled with superannuation, which is what is it cold in the States. It's the retirement package.
Because I've always thought about like, that's, that's when I'm old. Like, I've always had the idea that when I'm old, I'm going to be a bowler and I'm not gonna need it. Yeah, I think that everyone is relying on that. And it's Yeah. And
even you've said it. And we've kind of got the same mindset, which probably is a bit dangerous. Where will I will make this work? Yes, it can work. Yeah. And it's probably a good mindset to have. Because if you don't have that, the other option is, this is not gonna work. Yeah, we can make something of ourselves. And so you need a bit of that not
naive it? Yeah, in some respects, but then I think we can sort of need to have belief get real, like, I mean, I could have, I remember almost like I could have got it. I could have worked. I could have worked myself into a position where I could have gotten this one bedroom, no studio apartment, off the plan. And it was cheap. It'd be worth 110 grand more than it was then. But it would just would have been something I had and I looked at
You can easily look back on decisions you made, but I wasn't ready then I think it's I feel more placed and have my roots down that I can make some better choices and also more reason to make better choices. But you've changed to that's the thing too. It's like, we sometimes keep the same opinion on something and realise that we've actually changed so much. So yeah, opinion probably should change as well. It's a daily talk show. Hi, the daily talk show.com if you want to send us an email, if you're new to the podcast, if you've just found out Welcome, welcome. Go back. Have a listen to some of the other episodes. I really liked. Seth garden one, Episode 190. Yeah. And do you have any favourites? Mr. 97. He liked the one we were walking on. Yeah, walking the Highline New York City good banter. It's very just Josh and I did we just being ourselves? Yeah, it was it was fun because we got we met this guy little Vox pop at the end was super impromptu dude. You gave me that challenge. But when it's
bodies a lot of what you and I just love doing is just being out. It's kind of similar to what we're doing now which is at we're recording talking, communicating, talking about shoot we actually don't know the answers for but we've got our life experience to give it a crack. Yeah. And if you're making something if you got a podcast got a blog, now that I'm on social media, I've got more time so just email Hi, the data talk show calm with that so we can say what you're doing today. Otherwise, we'll say tomorrow, guys, see you guys. Bye.