Josh has been blackmailed

Tommy: Wait a minute.

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. It's a Daily Talk Show episode 170. Happy Monday.

Tommy: Oh, and happy 170, baby.

Josh: I know, it's a round number, we like round numbers.

Tommy: I thought I'd treat myself and I've eaten 2 protein bars and a pack of sushi and I'm gonna vomit.

Josh: That sounds like a horrendous combination.

Tommy: Oh, and a coffee, so I've really done myself a doozy and I had some kombucha, far out, I've had a lot, haven't I?

Josh: Yeah, we'll call this episode Tommy Shits His Pants.

Tommy: That's the 7th episode where we've called it that.

Josh: That's so true. Yeah. How was your weekend?

Tommy: Yeah, not long, but I went away. I— we drove a couple of hours. Thinking it's actually— Melbourne's interesting because you can drive 2.5 hours and be on the border of the state, which, you know, if you're from America, probably you can drive half an hour one way or drive a couple of hours and pass through a few different states. But in Australia, It's, and especially Melbourne, it's actually pretty close to the border. So we went up to Echuca with Bodhi and Amy, and it's on the Murray River, which is the divide between the states, and had this awesome Airbnb. It's so good. Airbnb is the best. I love, and you've been staying in Airbnbs for the last, you live in Airbnbs basically. But just hearing the kind of the storey of the person, and I reckon this is so many people. We stayed in this, like, it was basically a shed on this farm that had been completely kitted out into a 3-bedroom apartment. It was unbelievable. And the dad had like his man cave down the bottom. And then, and when I say man cave, I'm talking polished concrete flooring and motorbike display.

Josh: Polished concrete. Is expensive. Ooh la la.

Tommy: It's very much an ooh la la, look at that. But he restored motorbikes and just, it was this amazing property. But the woman who was running the show, she said, "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to do it. I've been talking about it for 2 years and the kids have moved out of home and now we do it." And obviously it's not for the money 'cause it was about $125 a night. No, 160. So it's like, it's cool, but I love that there's these storeys where people have these little rooms and it's such a, it's amazing. It's such a great business, Airbnb. You heard of it?

Josh: Yeah, Airbnb's amazing, mate. Glad you're getting on board. Yeah. I actually, I made a bit of Airbnb credit when I had my blog Melbourne Geek in around early 2012, I did an article about Airbnb and was directing people to sign up. And I got like probably like a few hundred dollars worth of Airbnb credits as referrals. Did you end up doing the fire? Did you have the fire?

Tommy: Oh yeah. So, I mean, I told you, I'll tell everybody else, I'm obsessed with fires. Like, I'm not an arsonist, but I love a good sitting around a campfire. It's definitely the primitive side of me. It's like, you know, back from when, you know, generations and generations of sitting around a fire, fire sort of fence.

Josh: Are you sure it's primitive? Maybe you just did it in primary school and you still like it.

Tommy: No, no, look it up. I've done a bit of study on this. Can't recall any of it, but I'll give it a crack.

Josh: You Googled.

Tommy: Yeah, that's what I was, that's what I was. When I say study, I mean Google. No, but the reason a lot of people love sitting around a campfire is because it's like deep within us. Fire fends off like animals a lot of the time. And it's just this calming, like you look, I could look at a fire and just sit there for hours. It's mesmerizing. I love it. And you got a few mentions while we're away. It was like, we need to bring Josh and Bree up here. We can do this. But the fire thing with a 19-month-old baby, he just, he can't be fucked. He's done, he's over it. It's the best idea. And I know my brother did this, he bought a fire pit and he's got a daughter a year older than Bodhi. But I know one night he set it up and they stayed out there for the lighting of it, and then he was out there by himself and the kids, his daughter went inside. And so it's a bit—

Josh: So you lit one, you got it all set up, you did it yourself?

Tommy: No, no, it was already set up. We did, we went down and we lit it and I got some nice footage and then we took Bodhi back inside.

Josh: How long did it last? Did you leave it on overnight or did you snuff it out or whatever you want to call it?

Tommy: Snuff it. I stood on it, I pulled a Tony Robbins. No, I—

Josh: Is snuffing it out what it's called?

Tommy: I don't know. It sounds—

Josh: Or is that another word for masturbating? Snuffing it out.

Tommy: Snuffing it out. No, I mean, snuffing, maybe that's— that could be the word of the day. Removing the oxygen. I could imagine that's what it explains.

Josh: No, you can't. No, this is a rule with word of the day is that you can't be creating misinformation. They have to be actually— Right. Snuffing. Snuff. It's to extinguish a candle or a flame.

Tommy: Yeah, but it probably explains the process, though. Snuffing sounds like it's like you're removing the oxygen so it can't continue or something like that. The action of snuffing would be like to cover it up. So it's dying, the flame's dying. Anyway, we didn't snuff the flame. We didn't snuff out the fire. We just left it going and it went out. It was a small, it was tiny, but yeah. I mean, it was a nice time.

Josh: It would have needed a tiny snuff if it were to snuff. Yeah.

Tommy: Bode was walking around the fire holding his ear and we couldn't work out what was going on. And he was like, little kid, he didn't know what the heat was. It was like, so, you know, like when your face gets a bit warm from a fire and he's just like, it was feeling really weird. And he was like rubbing his ear, looks so confused.

Josh: Would this be his first fire or has he experienced one before?

Tommy: Yeah, I think that was his first fire.

Josh: Yeah. And we also did it.

Tommy: It's— Yeah, it was nothing I envisaged. It was boring, but it was— We had a great time. And yeah, it was lots of horses and cows and all that stuff. So, he loved it.

Josh: So, were you on like— Did they have this shed set up for Airbnb and then the Airbnb hosts stayed in like their main house? Or what was the actual setup?

Tommy: Oh no, it was like they had their house there. And then they had this area that they had for Airbnb. So it was like a completely separate place. You didn't even need to talk to the family, and completely separate from the house. It was awesome. But what I was thinking, like, looking at this man, this guy who had his man cave and all these little trinkets and stuff, and I was thinking, fuck, I respect people who have those real obsessions on something. Like, yeah, and maybe it's the— it's exactly what we have with our obsession for creating content. It just isn't as blokey as, you know, being able to put together a motorbike from scratch. Um, but, and yeah, Amy said, would you like to be able to do that? I said, fucking, what do you mean I can do that? But she said— and I got it, I get it. It's like being that man who's super handy handy with tools and handy with, um, with stuff, which is— it's not you and I, is it? It's definitely not you.

Josh: No, I reckon our mate Derek, I think, is, is an interesting mix because he can— he'd be able to pull apart motorbikes and put them back together and do all the handy stuff, and he's like into art and creativity. Yeah, he's got a good mix.

Tommy: Yeah, he's the He's the ultimate man's man, aren't you, Derek? I know he's listening.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Woof woof. Hey, I, um, I, uh, got an email I wanted to talk about.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And the email says, um, your— the subject line is, your password is— and then it has one of my old passwords, which I'm sure I probably use for, um, for things still. And I'll read you that. I'll replace the password with 1990, my year of birth, just to keep it nice and easy as I read this email. Okay, this is, this is the email I got. So the subject is, your password is 1990. I'm aware 1990 is your password. Let's get right to the point. You may not know me, and you're probably wondering why you're getting this email. No one has compensated me to investigate about you. In fact, I set up a software on the adult videos website. And there's more. You've visited this website to experience fun. You know what I mean.

Tommy: Oh.

Josh: While you were viewing video clips, your web browser initiate initiated working as a RDP that has a keylogger which provided me with access to your display screen as well as web camera. Immediately after that, my software gathered all your contacts from your Messenger, Facebook, and email account. Next, I made a video. First part displays the video you were watching. "You have nice taste, Smile," and second part displays a recording of your webcam, and it is you. You will have not one but two options. Let's cheque out the options in particular. First solution is to disregard this email message. In this instance, I most certainly will send out your tape to every one of your contacts and then visualise about the awakenedness you will see. And definitely if you happen to be in an important relationship, exactly how it will be affected. The other choice will be to compensate me $3,000. We're going to call it a donation. Consequently, I most certainly will quickly delete your video. You can keep on your daily life like this never took place, and you are never going to hear back from me. And then he's got like details of sending him Bitcoin.

Tommy: Amazing. JJ's been caught wanking.

Josh: Finally. Again. You know what? That's a well-written email. This is costing me a fortune.

Tommy: I mean, I've got to say, is it true? Did you?

Josh: Look, we don't know. The thing is, what an amazing scam. Because what they're doing is they're taking data that is, uh, private. So a password. And basically there's, there's been lots of hacks over the years, right? Adobe had a big hack where, you know, hundreds of thousands of passwords were revealed. And you can go to, I think it's like, um, I think it's like Have I Been Pwned, P-W-N-E-D, like owned. And you put in your email address and it will tell you or no, you can put in your password, I think, and it will tell you whether it's being compromised. And what that site does is it searches all of the available, uh, data that's been made available through hacks, and it will say, yes, when you do a search, this password comes up.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, so that's what's happened. They've, they've just gone through a database, they've connected up my email address with the password, and they've emailed me and said, hey, this is your password. It's believable, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, that's— it's full-on. I'd shit myself.

Josh: I mean, yeah, uh, for a second time today.

Tommy: It's, um, and, and so you— I mean, you're, you're savvy, you knew, but was there anything inside you that thought, fuck, I'm done?

Josh: Even, even just reading the email, it still, uh, played into this thing which was like, oh man, I really— it made you think about security in a bigger way, which is like, you know what, this isn't too— this isn't far-fetched at all. Um, and so with, with that in mind, it definitely made me like think, hang on, I'm sure I probably still have, you know, 3 or 4 websites that still use this password from, you know, legacy accounts I don't really check.

Tommy: Yeah, would you be, I mean, you've given me shit for having that piece of tape over my camera and I've actually taken off because of us doing the remote recording. I always have the camera on so you can see me. But yeah, I was thinking like, I mean, you could totally just own it. It's not the most embarrassing thing getting caught having a wank. It's like, there is many, there's, There's a lot worse. Have you seen— you wouldn't have seen it, it's a TV show— Black Mirror? Um, there's a, there's a horrible episode that is all about this. Someone— but involves some other stuff I won't go into. But it's like they extort this person. It's horrible. But it's like, it's like some sicko has just imagined the worst case scenario when it comes to someone looking up something they shouldn't be online. And then like leaking this video. Oh my God. But it's, man, this stuff happens. There would be some poor corporate executive who works at some high bank who thinks, oh fuck, they got me.

Josh: Do you think I should email back this, um, Aaron guy and turn it on him and saying, mate, I've just, I've managed to log your details. And I'm gonna let everyone know that you watched me wanking.

Tommy: See, the thing is, this guy doesn't know which is worse. You would be the ultimate fucking scammer. Like, if you actually just decided tomorrow, look, you know, Tommy, big media company, I'm shutting it down. We've closed the books before we've started trading. I'm actually getting into scamming. I'd probably join you on that business to support you there too, 'cause it'd be be pretty lucrative.

Josh: Media company does— it sounds generic enough as a name that we could definitely include scamming as one of our sort of pillars.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, it's a, um, out of, uh, South Africa. That's where we're based for that leg of the business. Yeah, there's a lot of scamming going on from there.

Josh: Um, but yeah, yeah, I just, but I just thought reading it, I just had empathy for how many people Like, it wouldn't take that, but you would only have to be slightly less technologically— Like, the only thing that would need to happen really is if I hadn't changed all my passwords and I wasn't aware of, you know, that this goes on, I would 100% think it was real and I would just, I would be freaking out.

Tommy: Yeah. If— There would be a lot of people that would be scared. Scared shitless. But 3, like, that's a lot of money to be contemplating sending 3K and then working out how to get this, get that shit into Bitcoin. It's a— yeah, to make a Bitcoin deposit. I guess there's those Cash Apps that everyone's—

Josh: should I email them and ask, hi, can you send me a screen grab as proof?

Tommy: Well, you brushed over the question I asked you. Had you been—

Josh: so, so, uh, I mean, yes, do that.

Tommy: Because then, yeah, I'd love to see the photo.

Josh: Yeah. So it was— that was an interesting email. To be clear, it did go into my spam folder, which is a good sign. So it means that maybe a lot of people won't even get to see their email and get the opportunity to be freaked out.

Tommy: Yeah. You know, see, I mean, you just— it's like ignorance is bliss. What you don't know, you don't know. And imagine the people that have actually got some dirt on some bastard and they've— yeah, what you don't know, you don't know. And the next minute there's a, uh, a video of you just pulling it.

Josh: It'd be a terrible way to live, wouldn't it?

Tommy: I was talking to, um, Mason in the office here last week and we're talking about— I just showed him, I was like, cheque this out. This is a scam email and it's a, um, it's a return to sender email. So they're basically creating a, you know, a mail sender fail. What's the, what's the, um, what's the terminology?

Josh: What are you trying to say?

Tommy: So, you know, like if your mail goes down and you send something off to somebody and then it bounces back to you, or they—

Josh: oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, the mail server delivery notice.

Tommy: And so that literally—

Josh: Return to sender sounds very snail mail of you. It sounds like someone's— someone from the internet organisation has got— received your email and gone, oh, we're gonna have to return that. Wait, turn to the back of the email? Has he written on the back of the email? He's putting his email address. Let's send it back.

Tommy: No, mail server delivery fail. And so they literally— they'd taken my email and, um, and sort of created that and inserted mine, and then It's basically— it was like a reverse, and it was like just offering up like some kind of animation SEO service business. It was weird. It was like this— it didn't seem like it was trying to fleece me for heaps of money, but it was like, yeah, the reverse engineer of getting you to get SEO with this company. It was bizarre.

Josh: But, um, Social engineering is super interesting. It— there's— I've mentioned it before, but there's a book called The Art of Deception by a guy named, uh, Kevin Mitnick, who was the first sort of known hacker in the world who was actually put into solitary confinement because they thought that he could whistle into a phone and set off nukes. But, um, he talks about there's two parts of hacking. There's the, um You know, there's the technical side and then there's the social engineering side, which is, if you think about it, they actually don't have that much detail. The detail they have is an old password and an email address. And what they've been able to do is they've turned that into a storey that they can then leverage. Without the story, it's got nothing.

Tommy: So, I mean, magicians do this on a— it's more of a kind basis, um, whereas these people are channelling their skill of manipulation and human psyche manipulation into something pretty negative. I've always thought about like— and I can imagine you've looked into this stuff, learning sort of those manipulation techniques, not for bad. I couldn't imagine you wanting to do anything bad with them, but just understanding, you know, what are people's tells or I think there's like the people that want to learn it, that it's probably that they'll be too stiff.

Josh: I've got that vibe.

Tommy: Yeah, I think you'd be too stiff though. You'd be too awkward. I think you'd know that you're being a dodgy bastard to some degree. But then there's a person that's like, like instinctually amazing at it where they have just started doing it and then they pick up a few of these little tricks along the way. That, um, that then just blow people's minds, and then they rob people.

Josh: It's funny that you mention magic because, uh, I've actually found a new hobby that goes beyond my subscriptions. So for people who don't know, Tommy gives me a lot of shit for having a lot of different subscriptions and buying shit on the internet, specifically digital products. Is that Is that right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: That's a fair—

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, I pitched the video of let's put up on the wall Post-it notes of all the subscriptions and then in the middle work out how much. And you shut down the idea because I think it would have out— Like, it makes me sick thinking about, I mean, you don't have kids. You're spending what I do on Bodhi on subscriptions per week for daycare.

Josh: On dumb shit. On Stan. Shit, that just reminded me.

Tommy: I've got to delete my Stan subscription before it charges me. Thanks, thanks, Josh.

Josh: Oh yeah, well, that's the only reason I have Stan, it's because I forgot. But, um, is it actually? No, I— yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: That's so funny because it's the same with me.

Josh: Yeah, so, uh, yesterday I got into, um, buying magic online.

Tommy: Buying magic? Is it a magic kit or a magic Not a magic kit.

Josh: So, there's a website called Penguin Magic.

Tommy: Penguin Magic.

Josh: And what it is, is magicians will show you a magic trick and then they have a price and you can buy the magic trick.

Tommy: Genius business.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I love that.

Josh: Yeah. And so, I bought my first magic trick yesterday. Yeah. Bree and I were out to dinner in Dubrovnik in Croatia. And she's like, I was a bit antsy to get back to do the magic. And then Bree said something as we're walking back like, you'll be able to do magic soon or something. And then I said to her, I'm like, people from the outside are probably thinking that some sort of like sexy conversation, like, yeah, there's gonna be magic. In reality, while going back so I could learn my magic trick.

Tommy: This guy just looks over you, just hits his hand on his chest, woof woof.

Josh: Exactly. So, there you go. So, Penguin Magic. I've only bought one magic trick. I watched the 30-minute video.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's a bit of a mindfuck and I need to rewatch it. I also need to buy a deck of cards, but super interesting.

Tommy: No, that's great. Like, I'm looking on here now, $29.95. For the old Terry Ward live act. That's amazing. And how'd you get onto this site, you big weirdo?

Josh: I was just, I was actually doing some research of some guests that we're going to be having on in the US. And it came up in one of the podcast episodes and I was straight away hooked. I went on there, got my account.

Tommy: Amazing. And, and you've made your first purchase. Can you play— can you please just treat this as like, I need to actually nail this trick if I purchase it?

Josh: Yeah, that's exactly been my thought behind it. So, uh, the guy who I, um, heard about it from, he was talking about, uh, amateur magicians tend to buy a lot more tricks because They don't have many people to show, so they get old very quickly. Like, if you think about it, I only really have you and Bri to be able to do the magic tricks too. Yeah. So, there's only so many times you're going to watch it before you're going to get over it.

Tommy: Yeah. No, you're right. Did you see the guy that was on Joe Rogan recently?

Josh: Elon Musk?

Tommy: No, no, no, not him. The guy last week. I mean, Elon Musk did a magic trick. Um, but it wasn't the same as this other bloke who's—

Josh: to his share prices, I think. Did you see? Yeah, it's amazing.

Tommy: It's amazing. Just puff, puff, fall. Um, if you have no idea what we're talking about, Elon Musk, genius, was on Joe Rogan and, uh, smoked a joint with Joe Rogan. And, um, what's your—

Josh: what's your take on it?

Tommy: Uh, I, I was watching that live as he puffed it. I fucking lost it. I was like, this is the best thing ever. This is unbelievable. It's just, it's so weird. It'd be, it would be, it's almost as good as if I got you on camera smoking weed because it's so awkward. It'd be so interesting, so much at stake.

Josh: Um, but not so much at stake with me, to be honest. I've already, I've got some guy trying to get money out of me for a wanking video. Who cares if I'm doing a little bit of weed?

Tommy: I mean, it's different. Different levels of steak. Um, yeah, you'd probably be—

Josh: What's worse, do you think?

Tommy: Oh no, no, it's, it's a bizarre time. And I— and you said to me that, oh, the stock price is going to fall based on him puffing that joint, which, you know, I was like, oh well, it doesn't really matter. I mean, it's just go— it will go back up again. And, um, and anyway, sure enough, it's like such an opportunity for the media to go hard on Elon Musk because because he's been pretty hard on the media. He's like, you know, some of the stuff he's done to them, like trolling them— genius, like so funny. And then of course the headline, like what they're saying is, you know, these people, these big senior people at the company have, you know, left and smoking the joint. And it's like they kind of make it out like the joint was the reason why all those other things happen, if you just brush over it. But if you actually look, the the chief people officer and the, uh, the CFO, they left like last week or something before he smoked the joint.

Josh: I mean, but that's not the— that doesn't make it any better, right? If anything, that's worse because that means that there's actually an internal reason why people are leaving Tesla.

Tommy: But people leave companies all the time. Like, we could easily—

Josh: the CFO, I think it was the CFO, had been in the job for 2 weeks.

Tommy: Yeah, and he's realized, holy fuck, this is probably, I've bitten off more than I can chew. Man, as if, like imagine working at a company like that. It'd be crazy. Most people couldn't handle it and he probably just couldn't handle it.

Josh: I think that the, I mean, I had two thoughts on the Elon Musk smoking weed thing. I think the issue when it comes to like how it affects the stock price is because You start to think about the decisions that he's making. It's not— It has actually nothing to do with the smoking of the pot and everything to do with his ability to have some level of self-control. And I think that especially when things like deadlines for products are, you know, taking longer than expected, It doesn't, you know, it's not a good look. And secondly, I think when I watch it, I just feel like I hate anyone that's trying too hard. And I feel like he's so smart, he's got so much to offer. And in that moment, it just felt like the smart kid trying to do something for fucking all the cool kids to get a reaction. And you see on Twitter, everyone's blowing up, "Oh man, he fucking did it. Yeah." I don't necessarily see that as an admirable thing.

Tommy: So, you think it took away from the things. Did you listen to the interview?

Josh: Yeah. So, I watched the— I actually didn't get to— I watched the first half. So, you probably watched the other bit that I didn't watch. I watched the first hour and a half.

Tommy: Which is amazing. Some of the stuff they're talking about is crazy.

Josh: Yeah. It's shocking. And so, I was like— And then I watched that clip. You know, so I had a little bit more context than probably what most people commenting on it did who were just watching the single clip. And yeah, it just feels like to me that it's a, you know, there's a desire for him, you know, obviously to be liked and to be, you know, seen as someone who's a little bit edgy. And it felt like more, more that than anything else.

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, he knew wholeheartedly what that was going to do. And as if they hadn't talked about it before or he hadn't thought about it before. You're going on a show with that guy.

Josh: Yeah, but that was the whole thing. The whole thing felt like this awkward foreplay to the waiter. Like it was all like, oh, having a drink. Oh, should we crack open the drink? It was all grossed me out a bit. It was a little bit. It all had like a little bit of sleaze. Did you not feel that vibe?

Tommy: No, I mean, I've watched enough Joe Rogan to, to know that it's just him doing what he does and offering. Yeah, it's like people drink whiskey, people smoke weed. Richard Branson's talked about smoking weed, and it's illegal where he does it, for years in his books, and he's one of the smartest men on earth.

Josh: But I think the thing is that it's got nothing to do like there's a difference between, like, I'm sure he, you know, Elon Musk probably smokes weed outside of the context of being in, you know, on a, in an interview. I think that that's the, the issue is it's not, it's got nothing to do with, you know, there's a lot of people who are super successful who have done varying, you know, drugs, you know, like, um, look at someone like Steve Jobs with things like LSD and stuff like that. Like, it's not— this isn't some sort of uncommon thing. But I think that it's the, um, it's how it was positioned within the conversation that I thought was just, um, it's— it felt elevated even in the interview.

Tommy: But maybe it feels uncomfortable because it's something you've never done, and I, and I don't expect it —to be.

Josh: So, I think that that's the reaction. I think that that's the common reaction to the— to that pushback, which is like, oh, man. Nah, this is just like— And this is the issue that I have with drinking, too, is I think that there's a desire that people have, which is like, if you've done something, you want to have other people around you doing it because then it sort of you feel connected, it sort of gives a bit of a tick of approval. And so, I think for a lot of people who have done it, you know, you're feeling elated by it because you're like, this is awesome. Elon Musk, one of the smartest people in the world, is smoking pot. And that somehow, because I've smoked pot, rubs off on me or means that we have like, you know, 1% of the same mind.

Tommy: I've grown up, I've grown up with a feeling of people always looking to see if I've done, if I'm doing the wrong thing. And I think this has, this reeks of people looking to see when he does the wrong thing. And the, the fact that the only thing that the mainstream media are really talking about is that split second on that show when there's so many amazing bits within it that are great. And it's the choice of the mainstream media that they've made that that choice to go hard on that, on those.

Josh: I think that's culture as well, isn't it? What do you mean? Well, so it's beyond, like, you know, mainstream media is a reflection of our culture. And, you know, like, Joe Rogan is, you know, he's an advocate for, uh, you know, the legalisation of marijuana. There's— I just feel like there's a, um, whether, you know, my view on marijuana is, you know, like alcohol has, you know, in a lot of cases worse effects on society than marijuana from what I've read. However, I think that what's potentially getting lost at the moment is I actually think that there's a move towards illicit drug use that's happening through, you know, books that are promoting things like psychedelics and stuff like that. And I think that a lot of young people will be consuming that content and will take that as, okay, well, I'm just going to start being someone who smokes pot, um, at parties or whatever it is. And it will have an impact on their life that could be negative. It could cause psychosis for some people who wired certain ways, it's not going to be beneficial. So I think that the issue that I have is that we, uh, there seems to be a play at the moment to play down things like marijuana. Um, and I have the same opinion of alcohol. I just think that I just don't get the, the glamorization of something that could, you know, be so detrimental to, to people and their health.

Tommy: Yeah, but I think you said around the culture of what these news outlets are painting. I think it's a culture that they are skewing, not necessarily how it actually is. I think the, the way that it's like— I think it's just desperation from these places to get a lot of attention. I know what you're saying about, um, about the people educating people on these substances as being this appealing thing these days, but it's only ever been sold the opposite direction, which is every single negative.

Josh: Are we overcorrecting though now?

Tommy: I don't know if we are just yet. I think, I think we haven't even got halfway because maybe it's— I don't— I think it needs to go further if we get—

Josh: if that's an overcorrection because Because do you think that it would be beneficial for someone to smoke pot every single— could you imagine smoking pot every weekend?

Tommy: Every weekend? Yeah. Yeah, I could imagine that.

Josh: Like, why at the moment don't you? Is it just the cost of pot? Like, what is the actual reason that you choose not to smoke pot every weekend?

Tommy: I, I think— I mean, I had a, I had an experience ages ago that I just kind of went off it. But it wasn't even like, was it even pot? But I kind of enjoyed it. It's just, maybe it represents a part of my life that wasn't, you know, that enjoyable. I was young and I was restless. And so maybe there is that connection. And I know my friends who don't, who we don't smoke anymore, they feel the same way that it does kind of represent this, this, a part of our childhood that, you know, wasn't great. Um, but God, I mean, you don't drink, you get pissed once a week. If you actually get fucking shit-faced, you're done. You're done until Wednesday. Like, you're literally catching up on sleep on Sunday and you just ruined all week. So I mean, I reckon I'd be less thrashed if I had a little joint every Saturday. Than I would be if I went out and got tanked. And I'm not saying one— you should do one or the other, but I actually don't think I'd be as fatigued mentally, physically.

Josh: Do you think that that's part of the issue around this debate though, is that it becomes a debate around alcohol is somehow becoming our standard of what, what we should be benchmarking all of this stuff on?

Tommy: I think it It is the only benchmark that we have because it is a drug that is clearly very effective and has been made legal. It's, um, I mean, it is such a deep rabbit hole getting into, you know, the drug debate and how it's been painted by certain presidents and, you know, So many things, like, okay, so there's, there's—

Josh: I think there's, there's so many facets to, to the debate. I think that the, the thing to keep in mind though is that just because— so I think that the criminalization, um, around drug use and what governments have done to, you know, imprison huge amounts of minorities is completely wrong. Um, should, should, um, you know, drug use be decriminalized? Maybe. I think that the thing that we shouldn't be looking at though is, as a society, how we speak about those drugs. So I think that I'm actually more for marijuana being legalised everywhere and having education versus what's happening at the moment, which is not legalised in a lot of places. And we have a lot of high-profile people speaking about it in this sort of— in the same way they talk about the benefits of meditation or something like that.

Tommy: Well, there's a system that's been in place, and people are rising above that system to make their own rules, essentially. I mean, there's been far many more deaths from alcohol than there has been from marijuana. And I don't know, I think it probably will be legal at some point in our lifetime in Australia. I wouldn't be surprised in 40 years it might change. But yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting time that we see this happen. And maybe it does just point out how, as much as California are forward and progressive in their legalisation of it, that people aren't actually ready for it to be this really like okay thing for people to be doing.

Josh: And, um, yeah, I think, I think that it probably fits in the same— the, the concern I have is that it fits in the same category as the, um, say Steve Jobs with the, the idea that sort of you've got to be an asshole to be a good leader or stuff like that, right? Steve Jobs, I think, was successful despite the fact that he had issues working with people, um, versus, you know, the, the drug debate or the drug conversation, which I think there are a lot of, um, young people, and even young people, you know, in their early 20s or, you know, close to turning 20 that I know that, you know, they're consuming this type of content and they're picking out these different bits and thinking that to be a successful person in life, because Richard Branson smokes weed, this is the thing that, you know, that somehow for one, it's better than what it was before, and two, that it's somehow going to give them the edge. Which I just think is the wrong—

Tommy: Yeah, but I don't think it plays out like that because everyone has their experience of life and where they've been brought up. But I think it's, it's never— it's, it's not as simple as painting it like that where people just say, oh well, he does it, I'll do it. I think you're a pretty stupid person. Not you personally, it's a pretty stupid person if that's your thinking behind something. Like if, if— because I see that and I go Well, you know, sure, like seeing Joe Rogan smoke weed, it's like reminds me of when I do it. It's like maybe I'll give it a go at some point the next year or so.

Josh: I mean, what was it when I sent you the, the photo of Elon Musk smoking weed? What was your reaction?

Tommy: Oh, I said yeah, I think, I think you get sucked into that, um, mainstream media, uh, point of view where it's like maybe I did— maybe you thought like, like that's where you start thinking and taking something. But I knew that that would be your sort of angle on the thought of it, like seeing the share price go down. I like it, it's interesting. I'm not saying it's bad.

Josh: No, but what was your specific thought was, man, I'd love to see you give it a go.

Tommy: Oh, what I said to you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I said to you.

Josh: And so I think—

Tommy: I would love to watch you do that.

Josh: I think is the, I mean, you talk about, mate, if people are fucking listen, you know, taking that and saying, well, I'm gonna do it. Like, you're someone who's done it, and you've basically used this figure who is seen as someone who is successful in a lot of ways and saying, hey, he's done it, maybe you should give it a go. Yeah. And I think that the thing with, 'cause I, I'm just revving you up, mate.

Tommy: You won't even drink a glass of scotch. Actually, you won't know what's going to happen to you in the States. I'm going to spike your drink with a bit of Marley and we're going to have a good night in New York City.

Josh: I don't even fucking know what Marley is. But the— I know, but yeah, I just think that there's a— I get the pushback too, the pushback against authority and the people trying to blow up, you know, something and sort of paint something in a negative light. But I don't think that the answer is to then do the other way, which is glamorising these things.

Tommy: But maybe it's being painted that this is the way it's being glamorised, because the opposite is just, you know, smearing it and talking down on it. And so, but maybe it's not. So, maybe it's just like, it is correcting itself in the way it's been talked about and the information that we're actually hearing from influential people nowadays. Um, because I remember the— I remember the fear that the— around the education of marijuana, gateway drug and all this shit, right? It's like, I remember that education towards me as a young kid. And, um, how did you have—

Josh: so that— have you had any friends that have had drug issues or that have overdosed or anything like that?

Tommy: Uh, well, definitely not marijuana. Um, yeah, ice problems. And mate, I tell you what they did first, they drank. There's the fucking gateway drug. The amount of people that have a few drinks and all they want to do is get a bag of cocaine. It's like, it is the gateway drug. And it's legal. I could go to the shops right now and kill myself by drinking 7 litres of Beam. That'd be horrible.

Josh: But do you think that— So I think that maybe that's the concern though, is it? That we, like, do we need to then look at alcohol, which is, you know, I think that over the years I've been criticised by friends for having a negative view on alcohol. And I think that we as a society, we, I think we do sort of, it is too acceptable, accepted at the moment in the sense of, you know, you go to a work function and people will be getting pissed. And I think that in this day and age of Me Too, and I think that if people actually want things like equality, I actually think that things like how we consume alcohol and how we allow that into the workplace is a big factor as well. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I, I would put money on it that there would be less of these incidences, assault, sexual assaults, if everybody was stoned. And it's not saying one's better, but it's just like the, the— there is the fact that what alcohol does to somebody people turn into putrid humans on this stuff. And I agree with you, I know you've negative views towards it, but I don't think they're any worse than the, the next person who doesn't drink or has had bad experiences and is kind of against it. I was listening to someone talk about the experience of someone— so the experience, the experience of being drunk is perceived different in different cultures. So for us, and I think the culture of Australia is getting pissed down the pub and fucking feeling like you've, you know, drank a million carbs and they've got 7 litres of alcohol in your stomach, and versus someone who sees alcohol in their tribe as this ritual where they, you know, connect to a higher force. It's like it It is the same thing, but has a completely different effect based on how it's viewed within the culture.

Josh: But it's so different too, the reasons that we are using things like alcohol.

Tommy: Same drugs, same drug name. Different effect is my point, based on the culture.

Josh: And it's different, it's a pacifier. It's becoming a way to numb our lives. And I don't necessarily think that that's an important thing. Yeah, I think that that's an important factor that we need to look at as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's not an easy one. It's always good chatting to you about this stuff though.

Tommy: I mean, it's an ongoing conversation we will have on this podcast. Yeah. Over a glass of Scotch in New York City and may or may not be spiked. No, I won't do that to you. But we definitely will.

Josh: As long as I've got Coke Zero just to reduce cows. I'm like, oh, we could just have it straight. Yeah, on the rocks, neat. We'll just have a— Mate, very quickly I was spewing. I never take medication really, which is, I realise is my own issues as well. Like I just have, I'm very funny about taking shit, but on our bus drive, bus ride, bus ride to, in Croatia, I took another one of those sickness, motion sick tablets and it worked a treat. And I looked on the back though, actually I didn't look on the back, Bree Googled because we'd bought them in Singapore. And one of the possible, what is it called? Side effects? Yeah. Weight gain. I don't fucking need that in my life. Oh no. Especially because like when you're on a bus, what do you want to eat? You want to eat some little chockies and chippies.

Tommy: Are you sure they're not just marijuana pills? You're just getting the munchies.

Josh: Yeah, maybe I'm just— well, hey, I'm going to Amsterdam in 2 days' time. Oh, so yeah, be careful. Yeah, we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll end up taking a brownie and—

Tommy: No, don't do that.

Josh: Losing my mind and shitting my pants. You would literally lose your mind.

Tommy: Oh God, I don't wanna even think about that.

Josh: What's your reaction from?

Tommy: Oh no, I had that bad experience by eating cookies and it's just, it processes differently through the body. So it's like the same drug, but THC, which you smoke it, it goes into your system a different way versus ingesting it and it being processed through your stomach. And it has a different effect on, on you and it has different feeling and it can, and it can be more like trippy doing, ingesting it and eating it. So I could just imagine you overthink, you would be thinking 10 million miles an hour. I could imagine. Yeah, no, I don't.

Josh: And you're an asthmatic too, so doing the, um, having a joint wouldn't be good. Did it play up with your asthma?

Tommy: Yeah, but it probably was the Benson Hedges that I was Punching as well. It's all bad. It's all bad in terms of, for an asthmatic, it's all bad for an asthmatic.

Josh: Should we, should that be the title of today's episode? It's all bad. It's all bad. It's all bad. It's all bad for an asthmatic is pretty funny too, actually. It might be a bit too long. It's a daily talk show, everyone. Tell us what you think. Are we out of our minds? Am I wrong? Is Tommy wrong? Are we both wrong? Are we both right? Um, yeah, feel free to, um, send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com, with your thoughts, and we'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one, guys.