Banter with a delay

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface! The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, episode 135, and I am live from the island of Ischia. Ischia, I think it is. It is in Italy. Tommy Jackett, how are you?

Tommy: Yeah, I'm coming to you from Collingwood. I'll just quickly tell you about the sign that's gone up in the cafe downstairs from our studio here in Collingwood. It's freezing at the moment, so I almost wanted to start this with a bit of small talk around the weather, but Tom from the cafe downstairs from the office has got like a sandwich bag and he's got a texter and he's got it pinned up on the wall and it says, "Small talk," and then he started marking the amount of people that have said— had small talk around weather. So, sorry, it says "Weather small talk," and then he started keeping score. It's up to about 8 people from this morning just having small talk with him about how cold it is.

Josh: I feel like it's not small talk when you consider how cold it probably is. Is it freezing in Melbourne on this Monday?

Tommy: Yeah, if we are to enter in the realm of small talk, I'll happily— it's Absolutely freezing. And in here it was windy and a bit wet and rainy on the way to work this morning. So, everyone seems to be sick that I know. Everyone's got runny noses. So, it's horrible. But I'm feeling better, Josh. I'm feeling so much better.

Josh: That's good. Bree was asking about that, and I didn't think to ask when I spoke to you over the weekend. Bree said, "Oh, is Tommy feeling better?" And I was like, "Actually, I don't know." I think you were sounding better. Did you— was it literally a one-day sickness that you had. I guess it was longer than one day. It felt like one day for me.

Tommy: It was a fucking month. You can hear me coughing on podcasts from literally a month ago, and it only kind of just left. That's why I got— I felt I was so down just on the fact that I hadn't been able to kick it. And then I went to the doctor and he just said, look, you're a viral— it's just viral. It's going around. People are just passing it around at work. And then the next day I started feeling better.

Josh: Well, going viral, you did say it's not the first time I've gone viral. I'm Tommy the O'Bike guy.

Tommy: No, but he did recognise I've been actually—

Josh: I've been noticing— Did he really?

Tommy: No, he didn't.

Josh: I hope he did. He didn't recognize— I thought he may have recognised you because the fact that he's your family doctor or something. People might notice that there is a severe delay. This is one of the challenges of being on an island is even if I get like a connection up and down, that's okay. The one thing that I can't help is it going through the fucking pipes and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: And just before—

Josh: So if we sound awkward at all—

Tommy: Yeah, just before we were speaking about the potential of this show not going on later this week, because just a heads up, Josh has 8 gigabytes of data left and he's on an island, which my data on my end, because I've been doing this off my phone internet sometimes, it's been chewing it up. Big time. So you've got fuck all. And yeah, if we're not, if we're not on later in the week, it's because the island has been the death of the show.

Josh: And it will also be because of irresponsible usage from me. Like, I worked out that I turned my phone on and I was looking around this morning and I'd seen that I'd downloaded a bunch of podcasts accidentally on 4G. Oh shit. So if the show doesn't go to air we can actually blame the Thinker Girls because I used my last bit of data downloading Stacey June's wedding announcement podcast. Congratulations, Stacey, by the way.

Tommy: Yeah, congrats.

Josh: That's very, very niche, very, very niche congratulations on the daily talk show, just how we like it.

Tommy: And chances are she's not even listening, so joke's on us. Few shoutouts.

Josh: Well, look, very, very, very high.

Tommy: Few shoutouts, Josh, we've had some emails. Danny, the train driver legend, he sent through, he's basically said that he's sorry, Josh, he cares about where you are. He cares more about the people that you're meeting than actually the location, which was pretty funny. That was from one of the other episodes. But there's also another question there, Danny, which I think I will answer at some point 'cause I really like it. But I need to move on to another shout out, Harry, who's listening in the UK. Thanks, bro. Appreciate the, the love.

Josh: Interesting thing from Danny that he pointed out is that you can't use tech devices while you're driving the train, which includes listening to podcasts. So he actually listens on his way to work using Pocket Casts and CarPlay. So I was geeking out at that. I thought that was an interesting fact.

Tommy: Well, you know who's not listening to that, that works, you know, in cars or in transport for their job is police officers. You always see them. I've seen heaps of cops on their mobile phone while driving. You can't do that. It's taking the piss.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen that too. Just to paint the picture of where I am, I am next to a spa.. So, people might be able to hear little sort of sounds of water or things like that. But the other thing too, we're talking about this off-air, I think the way that the difference between these shows versus the other shows is with this horrendous delay, it sort of reminds me of, I'm sure what Sam Mack has to deal with being the weatherman trying to do banter with Koshi. It's very hard. To do strong, funny banter when there's a 2-second delay. So I think there's going to be more monologues.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And there potentially might be moments of overlapping.

Tommy: I just need to clear up who is coshy and who is Sam Mack out of you and I. You're definitely coshy on my behalf.

Josh: Oh, you know, it's so funny that I even bring up coshy because one of my favourite bits of gear to do when I'm away is if I see anyone who looks like an Australian celebrity, I'll point out to Bree, so, I saw a guy, bald, you know, glasses in a suit in Italy. I said, oh, Bree, it's Koshy. Koshy's here. And she knows now that 9 times out of 10, if I say that there's some form of Australian celebrity, it's probably a really horrendous lookalike based on some sort of weird visual.

Tommy: I had something, Josh, happen earlier today. I shat myself, and I think it's a trap. It doesn't fit into your segment of life traps. Actually, maybe it does. Can I, can I just hijack your life trap segment?

Josh: Life trap, baby, life trap, life trap, baby, life trap. That's where it's at. It's very hard to do both vocal parts because there's a bit of a vibe. Yeah, no, it's a life trap. I don't know, if you shat your pants, maybe you are the Koshi. I feel like Koshi would be more likely to shit his pants than Sam Mack?

Tommy: Uh, there was no pants that got shat in. It was figuratively speaking. I, um, I had my— ah, so I had a—

Josh: oh, I thought you'd actually shat yourself.

Tommy: No, no, no, no, it's— I mean, I've done that many times, and there's lots of good storeys around me shitting myself. Okay, actually, just quickly, my brother—

Josh: my first question was like, do you have a spare pair of undies? That was going to be my first question, but, um, no, go on.

Tommy: So, um, I was just saying, my brother— my brother's mate famously known for shitting his pants and then wriggling his leg, like say cock your leg up and sort of start shaking your leg for the nugget to come out the side of his pants.

Josh: What do you mean famously?

Tommy: Horribly. Well, it's a famous storey within the group. It's boys' banter, Josh. You wouldn't really, you wouldn't understand it.

Josh: That's what we're going to call this episode, Banter with Delay. I think it's fun. It's a good, I think it's a good exercise, especially someone who I feel like I'm a little bit on the spectrum. This is next level. Level sort of awareness, being able to have a conversation with someone whilst you don't get the satisfaction of any sort of laughter or being able to, like, we're not even doing video now. We're at rock bottom lo-fi. But why'd you shout yourself?

Tommy: So we use iMessenger. I know you do. If you have a Samsung, the storey's relevant to you, but there might be something similar. So we were talking about the other day how people are starting to use just like voice messages, and you can do this within the iMessage. So you can just, you know, message on your Apple device. There's like a, you know, where you type in the iMessage, there's a little microphone. If you just hold that down, it just records what's going on, and then it it just makes this little noise. I might do it, see if it works now. I might, um, and so you can just start recording and then it sends off this little noise.

Josh: Please don't.

Tommy: Anyway, I had a, I had a client's message.

Josh: Well, I noticed one of the things I was just going to say, this doesn't work, me interjecting. This will be the last time I interject. But what I was going to say is I think you can also put the phone up to your ear, maybe in iMessage, and it activates it.

Tommy: I think, because there's a send button. So once you've sent one to actually respond, it says hold phone to ear or raise phone. And so you can literally just raise it, talk, and then bring it down and it goes, "Duh-duh-duh," sends it off. But here's the thing, they disappear. So once the person on the other end has listened to it, it says that it will disappear in like 2 minutes. So you can't actually see it again. And so there's this, you know, thought around, have I actually sent the message and have they received it. And I just got off the phone with a client and I had the message open and I all of a sudden was holding my phone in my hand talking to some boys and I said something and I'm not even gonna repeat it. It was something just so stupid that I'd say something around landing work. It was around like, I got 'em, I got 'em guys or something like that. And I mean, it's totally like, It wasn't me slamming them or anything. They're a great client, but I said something just silly around mates. And then my phone goes, "Da-loom," and I looked down and my phone was open on this client's name. And so I was shitting myself, figuratively, Josh. Didn't shake one out the leg of my jeans, but I couldn't work out for the life of me if I'd actually sent it off, if they'd overheard. And I don't know how much they'd heard. Or if they'd even heard anything and if it sent off anything because it had gone. And so I was waiting. I had like, they're like, yeah, we'll get back to you in an hour about this job. You know, it's like a job that has a quick turnaround and we'll let you know if we're going to go ahead. I'm thinking, oh fuck, they've heard this thing of me being stupid, fucked it around my mates, and, and safe to— actually, actually, I actually don't know. They might have got it and might have not given a fuck, but I got the job and it's a win for the work coming through.

Josh: But haha, you got him again.

Tommy: But I was thinking, be careful.

Josh: It's a good lesson.

Tommy: These instant messaging voice messages, dangerous. Very, very dangerous.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I mean, even it— I mean, if Donald Trump has taught us anything, it's that you can't talk to anyone nowadays without being recorded. You know, he's— his lawyer was secretly recording him. You know, have you, have you ever, um, yeah, I wonder about the, the secret recording stuff. I do think sometimes I'm like, with some of the dodgy hotels I've been in in my life I feel like surely I've been filmed nude once in a shower.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Like, surely if you're going to play the roulette game that is one-star hotels, you need to expect that's the transaction. They're giving you a cheap room with the possibility that they're filming you naked. And I can tell you they're going to be pretty, pretty disappointed when they get me as a guest.

Tommy: What is it? Is it voyeuristic? I think that's the term when you like watching people while they're nude. I mean, otherwise known as you're just a big fucking creep. But there was a— there's a show on Netflix called Voyeurism or Voyeuristic, and it's a documentary series about a guy who was quite wealthy and he bought a roadside motel and he built this elaborate system in the roof where he could roll around. Like, what I pictured was him on a skateboard or something similar, like, you know, the things that you slide under cars as a mechanic and you can roll any direction. Yeah, he, he set up this hotel with the roof cavity with these elaborate systems for him to cruise around and look down into hotel rooms.

Josh: That's so creepy. It's also creepy because it's, it's an extra level, which is he's not even using cameras. He's He's there, he's present, and he's like— you would, you'd think that you would hear— now I'm going to be listening out to just wheels just rolling along the ceiling. If I hear that, I'll, um, I'll give the roof a bit of a tap.

Tommy: It's—

Josh: but yeah, it's, um, I actually, I had a friend, I had a friend in Mexico. She was in Mexico and she said how, um, she was having a shower in sort of a, um I'm trying to think. Cataqués. Is Cataqués a— maybe that's in Spain. I've forgotten, I've forgotten the name. It just, it's just off Cancún, this place where she was. Anyway, she was having a shower and she just saw this, um, camera pop up on the top of the shower, um, and then she, uh, yelled out and then got out of the shower and there was a guy that basically had um, uh, filmed her in the shower, but he was like, oh no, no, like she found him and, um, yeah, she couldn't fight, like she couldn't really do anything about it. But what a fucked up and sort of situation to be in.

Tommy: Absolute fucking creep. Oh, that's disgusting.

Josh: Um, change of pace, word of the day.

Tommy: All right, I just want to give a heads up, last time you had only thought about it You'd only thought about the word of the day literally 3 seconds before you did it. Is there difference in today's segment, or is that the consistency that we will get? I'm not fussed either way.

Josh: I charged my Kindle because last time I was getting warnings of battery. So, I've charged the Kindle and I've gone to the vocabulary builder. So, I'm ready and raring to go, and I've already selected my word, and I've made sure that I can say it correctly. I've actually chosen a word that's easy to say. You ready for it, for the word?

Tommy: All right, go for it.

Josh: Okay, so the word is spinster. Hmm, do you know what a spinster is?

Tommy: I think it would be within the realm of jokester. A spinster would be some— someone who, um, is, you know, like elaborately lying or like a tomfoolery involved.

Josh: Okay, so this— it comes from— I read it in the book All the Noise of It: Living in a Tuscan Hill Town, and the sentence is, "Teresa was a spinster and had no children." So, that was the sentence. Did you want to stick with your description of what you believe a spinster to be?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Okay, here we go. It's a— an— sorry, an unmarried woman. Typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage. There you go. So you're completely wrong.

Tommy: It's a polite, a polite way of pointing out an older woman hasn't managed to find a partner and settle down.

Josh: Yeah, but I think that it's pretty, um, I mean, this, this shows, this shows you the, uh, this is old school, um, 18th century sort of, sort of thing. I think we, uh, I don't know if we would use that nowadays. I don't know if we would be calling older ladies spinsters who aren't married.

Tommy: Mate, if you're worried about me doing an impression of a language that you can't even identify, I wouldn't be— you wouldn't be seen dead using spinster on a woman.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's a good look. But I feel like I've been a little bit more controversial lately. Not in the sense, not in the inappropriate racist or sexist or anything like that, but in my willingness to have a crack.

Tommy: And where's this come from? Are you getting a bit of chutzpah from the Italians?

Josh: I don't know. Like, I think that there's probably one thing that I've been doing is I downloaded a few of the comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. Jerry Seinfeld has a very sort of a blasé attitude towards everything. He doesn't give a fuck. And I guess partly is because he's worth like $600 million or $800 million or something. So that would be a part of it. And he does make me cringe massively because on two episodes that I've watched, he's mentioned, like made a joke about being gay. Like he was talking to Alec Baldwin. He's like, oh geez, Alec, you give me gay vibes sometimes. I'm just like, mate. What are we— it's like, I know Seinfeld was from like the '90s, but did you get stuck there? What's going on? There's been a few times where he's just like, said something's a bit gay, or this is a bit gay, isn't it? It's just like, couldn't believe it. But anyway, no, I've, um, I've done the taboo thing of having a go at one of my old employers.

Tommy: I did see this and I really, really appreciated it.

Josh: Well, I— what do you think? What's— I was, I was torn. For context, basically on the radio, radio Audio Today, which we've described as an industry circle jerk, which will happily partake in by being featured with our podcast, The Daily Talk Show. They did an article about PodcastOne in Australia, which I don't know the ins and outs, which is obviously always risky when you're commenting on something. But basically SCA, my old employer from 7 years back or whatever it was, 6 years back, they have bought into the rights to PodcastOne in Australia, and they were getting excited because they were saying how they'd finally opened up the, you know, they'd released a feature or they'd done greater integration with their partner PodcastOne in the US. So now the Australian podcast would be, be seen by more Americans, or, you know, it would basically get a US audience. And I just thought I just called bullshit on it because I think partly because I've been— I was within the business when they were doing products like Songor, which I've talked about on a previous episode, which was like the competitor for Spotify. But, um, yeah, what was your— what was your take on what I wrote? Did I— was it— was I okay? Was I too sarcastic? Should I have not put my name? Should I have been the anonymous guy? Is it risky that I put my name?

Tommy: I'll go backwards. You should have definitely put your name on it. I think it is, I think it's good. I read the article to Amy and then I read her the feedback from it and her, without even getting into the details of what the article was about, she was like, I don't even use podcast, I didn't even create a podcast myself or work in the industry, but from what they said there, it sounded like irrelevant. You can already access most podcasts around the world. So one of their things was, it's like, US listeners will now have access to popular Aussie podcasts including Hamish and Andy, Mark Howard's, and a bunch of other people. But it's like, isn't the podcast platform one that can be accessed from all around the world?

Josh: I mean, and this is, this is the thing, and this is what they tried to do with Songle, which is— and I get it, right? They've got these legacy products. Like, their whole thing is like, how are we going to monetize this stuff, these things that we do. So what they do is they say, okay, well, we need to, we need to have control over it. And this mindset and mentality is the same reason why when I try and fucking buy a book on Kindle, half the time the Kindle book isn't available in Australia. It is such an old-school mentality. And so my point was that it's just like, guys, this is the fucking internet. Like, I just, it pisses me off hearing after 14 years of podcasting that for one, they're finally interested. And two, that they have the audacity to celebrate something as fucking obvious.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Or as sort of default as access.

Tommy: I mean, this is big media red tape. It's taken them 14 years to actually have this deal come through.

Josh: Yeah. Man, I don't know. So anyway, it'll be interesting because I, I did— when I press the button, I did think about where it's like, okay, there are friends that I have, Christian Hull, Hamish Blake, all these people who have connections with this company. So I understand that there is a level of risk, but the thing is like, I, I just, I think that it needs— maybe I thought maybe through this comment it would actually spark other people having a conversations and being like, actually, it's not, it's not acceptable that we're celebrating that we are now— our podcasts have gone global because, um, it's like, it's, you know, as, as we've mentioned, we've got listeners in Afghanistan who have, have, haven't, uh, written to us yet. But, um, that's interesting. Would you— I've always put talking badly about your employer or negatively about your employer is in the do not do not start, or, you know, do not sort of entertain the idea. What's your, your vibe on having a crack?

Tommy: I think there's— it's like when you quit a job, you have made the decision that you're not going to work for them in that position again, and potentially never again. And I think there's something liberating in, yeah, that feeling. And I could imagine it's the same. Not saying that's why you did it, but I think definitely you, you think, okay, well, we are out on our own doing our own content, and we're playing in the field and have a grasp on what's happening. And no longer are big media outlets the only shot callers in this space, because the person who starts their own little podcast and grows it to an empire has just as much power Joe Rogan's podcast is more powerful than all of the radio stations combined at the moment. Like, it's— he literally, yeah, literally has more reach than most of the major networks put together over a month. And he has data that can, yeah, legitimately speak, speak to that.

Josh: Yeah. And I think that there's— yeah, it's, it's definitely— I think I feel comfortable in the fact too that when I first left, I had all these feelings. When I was in the business, I had these feelings. I spoke about them when I was in the business. But when you leave a business, there's a sense of, okay, well, there's a bit of sour grapes or whatever. But I think the great thing is time has passed and I haven't, you know, like PodcastOne have been pushing for, you know, send us your idea, like, you know, you know, sort of setting themselves up as like, you know, pitch us your ideas and it might, you know, you might be able to get a podcast. And I just, I just can't work out what it is that like the people who are seeking that, the people who are like waiting to be picked by PodcastOne, I think that it's, I think it's ill-informed. I think that if you're not willing to just go to a podcast host and do it independently, I just, yeah, I get quite frustrated.

Tommy: I think there is a business model in having a bunch of people convinced that that's the direction they need to go in. Like, I remember being in radio, they had the radio pipeline, which was a thing, and it was like, you know, being in it, I think there was a bit of—

Josh: the talent pipeline.

Tommy: Talent pipeline. There was a bit of false hope given to a bunch of people that have never made it. Because I've been in the time now where those people that they were speaking to and all the people that were getting their hopes up about potential progression, it never happened. And you almost— I've heard bits and pieces from the people who have then been in those roles saying all this stuff where they have to sell a dream, to then being on the other side of that, out of the industry as such, working for these big companies where they are a bit more realistic. About it. So you kind of get this sense where it's like the, the power's not there, and they were just doing that because they had to. And I think the landscape has changed so much. So it's, it's fascinating.

Josh: Well, the thing that the radio stations or radio networks had was, and they still do have, is they have their radio license. So they've got, you know, they've, they've licenced frequencies and, and they're expensive, and the average punter can't get that. And so there's a bunch of talent who obviously they want to work for these companies, because if you want access to this thing, you have to, you know, it's the equivalent, it's almost the equivalent of taxi licenses, right? It's really expensive to, to own a taxi and to do all that sort of thing. And podcasting is like Uber. And right now it's the equivalent of the taxi industry now saying, we have an app, and, and talking from some level of authority. Which I guess when you've been watching it from the sideline for so long and you've seen their approach to these things and you've seen the lack, or, you know, lack of interest in innovation or taking it seriously, it's hard to actually, um, to see it anything more than just like a, a last, last-ditch attempt to, um, to stay relevant.

Tommy: Yeah, well, this— the scale of the business can stifle the creativity inside and the innovation within it, which sounds like it should be the opposite way. The bigger you are, the more innovation you can have, because the bigger the more resources, but it doesn't necessarily work work like that. And that, I mean, that's what you and I are doing with our new business.

Josh: Yeah, well, I think that it's the equivalent of, um, they've built a ship that's really good in the ocean, and then all of a sudden podcasting is this really small river, and it's become really trendy and everyone's talking about it. And now this big ship is like, oh no, no, no, no, no, we do tours on the river too. And they're just going down the river and just slamming the banks, and they're just like, they're creating havoc. And, or if— and, and they don't even fucking fit down the river, but they're like determined to say, guys, like, we're open, we are, we are the biggest river tour provider in the world. It's like, guys, you're fucking the river. Just like, settle the fuck down. Like, if you're going to do the river cruise, don't use your big fucking boat. Get some— let's get some Let's start smaller. Let's— and so that's what I think is missing in a lot of these cases. It's sort of they're taking that mindset of what they were and applying it to this new thing.

Tommy: They need some jet skis instead of boats.

Josh: Enough on all that. Exactly, 100%.

Tommy: Just quickly to finish off, Melbourne is finally getting a train line to the airport.

Josh: How long until we actually can start using it? It's like 2030 or something ridiculous.

Tommy: This is my point. 2022 is when it even starts construction. So, by the time you and I are old enough—

Josh: Yeah, that's crazy.

Tommy: —retired, there'll be— yeah, visitors. So, they expect 68 million visitors a year by 2038. It'll take— it'll cost $8 billion.

Josh: And they'll be halfway through getting the train done.

Tommy: No, I reckon it'll be close to 2030. Before it's actually finished.

Josh: If I've learnt anything from these types of promises, you know, based on the NBN, is I'm just, I'm not going to get excited until it's here because otherwise you'll just be, um, I'm definitely not, um, sort of earmarking the date and saying, oh, you know, on my trip to Fiji in 2028, uh, we'll, we'll take the train rather than, uh, using a private car. I think for the moment I'll keep to the original plans.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly. I can't even— like, I'm reading this article and it's like, there's— I don't think they've outlined the exact date of completion. It's because they can't, they can't commit because it could take 5 years more than it needs to. But it'll be, it'll be so expensive too. By then it'll be $38 to get to the airport on one way.

Josh: What I struggle with this sort of stuff— yeah, this is, this is why I struggle with is because It's like, I do, I do like people doing shit and actually getting things done. And it's almost like a damned if they do, damned if they didn't. This is probably something that should have happened 20 years ago or, you know, 10 years ago. And, um, and so that's even how I feel about the SEA stuff. They've got to do something. So the train, it's creating the train is probably better than not creating the train., but it's hard not to be a bit disenfranchised by the whole thing and feeling like, like, what is this actually? What's this actually going to mean? This is going to mean $5 trips or $10 trips to the airport. It's going to be, yeah, as you said, $38 or whatever. And it's going to be a long, long way away.

Tommy: Just a quick shout out again. Mick Hall, who was on last episode, had some great feedback. Feedback on people loving his story. Amazing, amazing story. So if you haven't listened to it— oh, awesome— last episode, 134, Mick Hall.

Josh: Yeah, Mick Hall, super interesting, all about heroin addiction, being in prison. And this Friday we have Cycling Maven, super interesting chat. So that will be happening on Friday. Until then, I'll try and, um, think of another solution for this lag because it is slightly annoying. I think it might just require longer monologues from each of us and maybe some sort of safe word when we're done. Maybe we just say over every single time we finish the sentence, like we're some sort of CB radio talking on walkie-talkies. It's, uh, it's a daily talk show, everyone. Thanks for listening. Hi@TheDailyTalkShow is the email address, and if you have listened this far, you are probably a #SuperFan, and we appreciate your podcast reviews through iTunes, through the Apple Podcast app. Hope you have a great Monday, and we'll see you tomorrow. Bye! See you guys!