- July 13, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Friday July 13 (Ep 129) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
Our new mate, Jordyn Evans, is the founder of Mingle Seasoning; a no BS seasoning company that’s all natural. Jordyn talks about the story of starting her business and the highs and lows that comes with it.
Mingle Seasoning: https://www.mingleseasoning.com/
Jordyn’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theminglespicegirl/
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Wait a minute
conversation, sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket. The Daily talk show. Jordan Evans is in the building.
Hi guys. How's it going?
Good. We're really good. Thanks for coming. You're you've got a seasoning company. Yes, I do. Yes.
You're also human. Yeah.
Can you can you explain what sumac is you know what sumac
I it's a tough spot. Yeah, it's not in my seasonings. I thought
it was you Stephanie up stuffing up chimeric
No, because I was saying I thought that I won't use this episode to go through all the spices and wondering what
I'm saying not a spice expert.
Yeah. So how did it How did you actually end up having a seasoning company?
It's pretty random to be honest. So I don't know if you guys are into meal prepping Sunday afternoon.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, when I was back bodybuilding,
I would love to be a meal prep. I feel like the problem is that I've only gotten comfortable about actually I'm still not even there
about eating leftovers so meal preparation usually tied houses or people on a budget or bodybuilders it will healthy healthy people but no my wife and I we do like bulk cooking sometimes on a Sunday. It's definitely a ritual but yeah, definitely like when you're trying to go cheap LG pay. It's like flavour and healthy. Yeah, it goes out the window. So when I was doing some bodybuilding, my bodybuilding Hey not even it's just like training like a bodybuilder but then still eating pizza on the weekend so I can bring all my good words you know I never did the 10 but we do the meals are like a whole bunch of meals that just were very bland and so we would use some seasoning stuff guy
like you Everything was saying we're trying to tie back to end if he could believe it we use a
Nora I just didn't have a lot of time throughout the weight so kind of Sunday would come around and I get my chicken out my veggies at and then hop to the pantry to grab the seasoning and at the time I was working for a drinks company called copy so natural drinks company in them
see I PPI one P is a like a like a round dish bottle yeah silver lead yeah
yeah yeah. Yeah, very good.
I don't want to go on so
copy natural product and kind of started to get familiar with preservatives and heated nasties and started to become more conscious with reading my labels so this particular Sunday headed to the pantry to grab the usual or inside the brand but the kind of the brand that I'd grown up with and trusted for years the one that mom had used and I was like, this chip tastes good. Yeah. But what what actually is in it, so turned the label around and kind of realised that No wonder it tasted good. That was chicken flavour one on one and MSG and vegetable oil and this and that. And I was like, damn. Here I am going to South mobile market buying good quality chicken and edge and then essentially shaking shit on it.
Yeah. What has the most is those taco seasoning? Yeah, hundred ingredients. Yeah. For doing your burrito. tingle? Oh my god. so salty, but it's so good. You're right. It's like a knowing that they taste so good.
Yeah, and so much. Why did that with whole 30 so I did whole 30 which was like a
I forget what the principle is.
You can have all the nasty shit in it. It's got to be quite like you basically fresh food. Like, organic calling, and all that sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah. But the interesting thing I remember that diet they had just said the potatoes were okay. And so I remember I had a lot of hardships against the sort of, you know, the whole ethos, everything but you know, looking on the back of being really upset at there was a young chicken thing that brought us from Costco and it was just like, had so much sugar in it. so upsetting. So, so you've, you've discovered that there's all this shit in there. So what do you do? what's what's the what was the next
man I decided to check out kind of all the mass market seasonings that I had in my pantry. And I had a few draughts bosses Lyft and I thought I'd experiment a little bit in the kitchen. So I always love to see simply for convenience. Like I you know paprika and cumin a cool by themselves, but I kind of liked a little bit of this and a little bit of that German so
strong it is. I feel like it's the one thing that I can pick out and like if you've added cumin, cumin, there you go. Anyway, maybe this me he's known as a Cuban guy. So you had a few spices. You tried them out?
Yeah, experimented in the kitchen and then kind of overtime came out with some tasty blends that I use for my meal prep. And it was honestly as simple as that and then
work out next I got 35,000 followers on Instagram.
Well done on that. Yeah. So when did you decide that you'd actually turn it into a thing.
So I'd always had a bit of an entrepreneurial itch. So my grandpa or aunties are in business, my dad's right. Still, he's in business and you plug the plug Evans plumbing happens with every guy.
phone number. Actually, I did actually do that. I remember when my dad had a business doing a plug on community radio. It was sort of I was I was in grade six. And I said, did you want to say hello to anyone? And I said, Oh, just like to say hi to my dad. It's super trick, right? He is your radiator specialist.
Also a plumbing business, right? Yes, sir. I didn't want to start a plumbing business. Um, but yeah, I always kind of had that entrepreneurial itch. And then I started at Cappy really kind of in that startup phase. So got familiar with how to kind of build a product and from A to Z, go to market with at that time, it was a drink brand, but I kind of knew where to source a bottle from where to source a label. And then when I started to get feedback from family and friends that this was some tasty shit. And it didn't contain shit. I was like, oh, maybe there's a market for some all natural seasonings. Sorry, typical millennial in May was like, I'm gonna launch a business and launch an Instagram account and an online store.
That's what you're gonna have first.
Josh goes before even thinks about the business. The Insta?
Yeah, my favourite is on a quick side. I've got an Instagram. And I'm currently bidding on the.com for company. I'm happy to announce it today.
You've you've heard about Oh, yeah. Playing face. Yeah. Which will go there later. But I will Josh like this about him the whole time.
Playing face paint ally in a sec. Yeah. And the idea is, when you go on a plane, you know, Hey, get a bit dehydrated. It's a mask specifically designed to wear on a plane anyway.
And how much is it going to be a side hustle?
Well, it was going to be a side hustle. But then I spoke to Zoe foster Blake about it and said Hi, what do you think of this ID and she was like, because up my initial idea was you get a pack of throughout the flight, you'd have different masks. She said you don't need to wear different masks, the ice will come off. But yeah, I was sort of overdoing it with the masks and it because the original idea was that you'd go from it was sort of a summer to winter or winter to summer pack. So depending on where you're flying, be able to pick the season and you'd wear different masks. But apparently i'd over complicated.
So she's great that because there's excitement in that I think a lot of us have those moments where like, an idea. There's a business, he's the Instagram. Yeah, then what's the difference between taking it now to where you are? What was the next step after going? Fuck, this is good.
Yeah, sir. I guess Honestly, it was just a bit of a side hustle to test the waters. I had no business experience or knowledge. Really sorry, I kind of recruited my sister and her husband at the time that you know, Chartered Accountants know their figures know their numbers and kind of was like, Hey, guys, do you want to be on this? spice Jenny with me. And so they kind of really helped me like set up the back end of the business. But yeah, it honestly just really started organically, I realised that I didn't want to be another seasoning company with a chilli or a garlic on the front of the label. So I decided to call my seasoning company mingle and personify Ah, seasoning product after a different girls name that you could mingle with every night of the week.
And yeah, I really was kind of trying to target that health conscious female age 25 to 45, like myself. And it kind of just took off, people kind of really resonated with mingling in the kitchen. And it ended up being more than just tasty seasonings. It was kind of this, this feeling and this connexion that will people will kind of, I guess, building with my product and that experience of transforming transforming them meals.
How much was that planned verse kind of grew organically.
I think I just constantly put myself in the customers shoes and be like, what kind of brand would would resonate with me so it sounds kind of selfish, but I was like creating a brand for myself.
But like scratching your own itch is like one of the best ways to start a business right.
And it's kind of like the Josh and I making videos we make the ones that we are super interested in then, you know, the storeys resonate highly with us. And maybe that will translate to others how much of
how much time because I could get really into the brand stuff. Hence, plane face, which will probably never ever be a product, let's be honest, might be a product. I
know. I'm just picturing myself in like economy and like we'd like some dude next to me.
And then he wakes up and I've got like some mask on.
So part of the this was the big selling point, this was the bit that I was going to that was going to sort of launch playing face was I was going to wear or I was going to get someone to wear the mask on a flight and have some sort of issue from a security point of view where the point where that that they like you can have to take it off. And basically, then would be in the newspaper where Virgin Australia or contests would have to come out and say, can you wear face masks on a plane? And when they said yes, that'd be like CEO and founder Josh Janssen from flying faces. This is a really good win. So that was that was definitely guerrilla marketing. Yeah, it's sort of requires the Federal Police, right? You don't want to, you don't have to worry about that. So. So I'm obsessed I get really into the brand type stuff. How do you balance brand versus what you're actually doing from a product point of view? And where do you Where do you actually spend your time?
Well, I think first first thing the product had to taste great. Like if it tastes like shit, but it's a really good brand. Like there's only so far you can go with that. As much as the brand was still really important to me, I kind of I didn't spend that much time on it. I'm sorry, I'm currently to using being like, okay, now it's time to take two steps back to take 10 forward and kind of really sit down and, and map out methodically where the brands going.
Yeah, how does it How does it work? Do you just go in, like going from residential kitchen where you just making something fun to a commercial sort of thing like you going out like it? How do you find such big buckets of spice?
Yeah, so it started off really Breaking Bad style. Like, you know, I had the garlic on the shoulder and I swear my neighbours thought I was you know, doing some drug trafficking. And just blending it, blending it at harm and then that got too much so upgraded to Nan's granny flat. Hey, Bry. Yep, and then that got too much. So then we we started outsourcing to like a third party manufacturer. So yeah, it's kind of where, where all the brand brands blend all their spices. So just knocked on a few doors and
shared the recipe and the rest is history.
interesting to hear where that person goes in Oakley, an old person than a man or woman. But I'm picturing an old Greek guy cooking and roasting all these peppers. And the whole suburb got like, shut down. They're like, we don't know what's happening. Everyone can't go outside because they're like, eyes are watering. Everyone's coughing and this and this dude I'm imagining is just roasting all these peppers and the whole suburb so that's cried ever get to like that. When you're at home just like oh my god.
Yeah, no, most of my clothes probably still smell like cumin and paprika.
Even the teammate guy.
sumac? Oh, no, I smell the comment. But I'm interested in Soma. And so what's the what's the actual process in regards to, you know, you know, is there a big jump? Or is it pretty simple from like, Okay, this is like a doing a small portion to a big one. Is it just like timing everything by 10?
Yep. Yeah, pretty much.
It's so funny that a lot of people like how to do it. Like, I'm just blending spices together and putting it in a bottle like it?
Well, when you get trying to get the system because you don't want every bottle tasting massively different. So no, that's a factor. I'd be horrible. My math is should ask. And so it would be equations to try and make sure that everything is
Yeah, good out Excel spreadsheet and times 20. Or Yes, it just depends what I'm making.
And so where do you sell? What do you sell mingle seasoning at the moment?
So it started off just as a as an online store. And then kind of six months in we had a like a distributor that services health food stores and independent supermarkets contact us. And then yeah, so today, we're stopped in about 400 stockists around Australia.
Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So what's the end? When you start getting from where you were to getting that amount of stalkers? What actually what is the change? What do you actually what changes from an operational point of view?
So just recently, I did have to move manufacturers really to accommodate for, for the amount of seasonings that I was selling. And I also recently went through like a food incubator programme with chobani. yoghurt, good. That really helped me kind of understand scaling of food brand, what's what's required from a manufacturing front in terms of spec sheets and quality control and kind of taking that that next leap.
They got me in with the $1 sachets if you're getting out the price. I can't find it for one bucket
release. I'm sure 711 will do that with you. So that's interesting. So bonnie, bonnie,
Yeah, this is this is the problem hanging out with Tommy, you start saying stuff in a weird way. So Giovanni, so um, so they have to they doing it? They do an incubator, like, what do they need from you? What's the deal?
Um, there was an idea, which is really weird. I was like, what's the catch guy was
incentive for them. supporting people? Yeah,
yeah. So the founder of chobani is like an absolute legend
became like, a bunch of shares. Did he do something crazy?
Yeah, yep. And honestly, with
employees, will give all of our employees 50% with every single one of you, right? Yeah. So, so tell us what what that was like, and how did you get involved in the chobani? beta?
I'm sorry. chobani founder really wanted to, you know, still wants to give back to food entrepreneurs, and share his learnings. And if I guess he can help us along the journey and,
and not fuck up as much.
Then Yeah, that's, that's kind of what he intended to do. So applied for the programme. And there were, I think, five food companies that got mentored for like four months. And it really, excuse me, helps, helps kind of become aware of how to scale scale up a food brand.
Did you when you're going into it? Do you think about what mingle could be more than seasoning? Could you do that? Like, I know that we thank you, like, you know, thank you water, and then they're like, Fuck, we don't want to just do water. We want to do all this other stuff. Have you thought about? Actually, I want to be doing all of this other stuff. And how do you reconcile that from a brand point of view?
Yeah, it's a tricky one. I am quite the dreamer. And I do sometimes struggle with Farkas. So I definitely have aspirations to mingle to be more than just a seasoning brand. And I guess my mission is really to like, educate people about the nasties that are in food. Yeah. And I think the reason why I started it was really the frustration that mass market brands were kind of setting this benchmark of what was acceptable, and I was like, This isn't acceptable.
And PE was that benchmark. What does it look like? What was some of the shitty stuff that they accepted that you don't?
I just don't accept, you know, the hidden nasties in ferried.
So you would hide the secret hopes and spices because they KFC? Like you, because you are sort of the only spice expert that we've had on I really noticed. Well, you're the closest thing we've had so do you know anything about the secret of herbs and spices? specifically? The question I've always wanted is what happens with people with allergies? How do you if you not to know what the secret herbs and spices so
if it's a secret recipe and you just don't eat it?
No, but what so if I've got a nut allergy? How do I know that there's no nuts in the secret herbs and spices? herbs or spice? I guess. You don't have an answer those
nasty like, what's the worst one that people are putting in MSG? We know MSG is okay though. Is it on?
Its kind of controversial at the moment. Is it good? Is it bad?
It's like a bit like so. No, I'm no idea. I just remember in science they did this thing with a mommy. Is that the thing that what's the thing that? No, I thought that there's a specific taste to that. Like I didn't really pay attention in science, but there was like, another taste that we had which was like MSG, like you could taste MSG. I'm out of my depth. Um, yeah, so the nasi. So Tommy mentioned
mha I think the underlying thing is just having confidence with what you're consuming and I think
why is a pretty confident so
does actually look like that like what should I What should I look at on the back?
Um, so there's quite a few hidden sugars in a lot of the seasonings. Artificial flavours, colours, vegetable oil, MSG, high amounts of like refined white table salt. Okay.
How do they hide the sugars? Is it still on the
flat out says yeah, yeah sugar Okay, I think I think people just assume so things are healthy and so don't really consciously look and also you know, what if it tastes great, people don't really think twice but
especially in McDonald's but people still add
so I think like it I remember being in New York and this guy had some I was trying to be healthy and he was giving out free samples of tea. I said Is there any not sugar sweeteners, any sweeteners in it? A set on just some organic came organic yourself brown sugar stop trying to trigger Yeah, yeah. Okay, didn't say the S word. Because just like you
said like this is the reason why I was like so overweight was because like not specifically because I was just drinking tea from some fun guy, I'm sure there was a lot of sugar, either the devil I reckon by in regards to like, if I have anything at sweet, it just sets me off on this crazy path of self destruction all the storeys and things I always look and try and find the one with the least ingredients. So a product with the least ingredients that then doesn't have sugar and it's probably the safest bet thing going on with hundreds of ingredients. And that's what I'm being still being naughty. So I guess if you can, you know, like I look at this around Mexican food, Mexican sauces and marinades and things like that. They all just have such crap in them. And I think we've started being more conscious about this stuff. Have you seen like a rise in the interest in a product like yours and with the education people are going through about read the labels?
Yeah, yeah, I guess these brands have been around for like 50 plus years. So I definitely have quite the task to
take him down.
Yeah, take those bad boys down but um, and convert I guess that mass consumer But yeah, I think certainly people are becoming more conscious of what's in their food and yeah, I guess time will tell.
Do you think that I could have I you know, with your different flavours. Could I look at the back of your what are the what's the glossing? But what a bottle bottle? bottle of spice Yeah. shaker, turn the shake around. And I just got the ingredients out that you rushing on there? Could I basically emulate your seasoning through doing that? Yeah,
yep. Competitive Edge.
I think that's good, right? Like, that's what you want, you want to be able to, like, it's a convenience product really isn't. And it's like so me trying to, like have a full spice rack all the time is too hard. Like I'll just so many times have gone to make something and we're like, we don't have so much specific the sumac things and you know, the thing the reason that I bring up sumac is because there's only one dish I do, which is a slow, slow cooked lamb. Yeah. It uses like half a container of somatic. It's like a Middle Eastern type of thing. But I'm always stuck, where it's like, I've promised friends and I'm cooking this thing. And I'm like, we don't have sumac. words don't have it. The Asian grocery doesn't have it. And there's a panic to try and find sumac in Melbourne. Well, that's it. Yeah. So is that is there a need to create a an edge? Or do you think convenience is just enough?
I honestly think convenience is is enough. And it's funny, because I think you've hit the nail on the head that I for the last two years, I've kind of really been telling people what I do. Like, I have a range of seasonings that have no nasties. But over time, I've realised this convenience element of people don't fucking want to measure out their spices. Yeah. And when it's six o'clock, the thought of what's for dinner is you know, the bane of everyone's existence. So I guess I'm really trying to tap into that convenience. And all you need to do is shake it and it transforms you meal. How much?
How much you meant to use of spices like a people tend to over spice and despise that you meant to put it on the raw chicken and then cook it a mentor add as you go. What's it like I literally use, as I said in email, I'm a big baby man and a grow up because I just use Uber rides all the time. So what's it like? How what's the best way to use it? Should I even treat it like some sort of Texas rub where I put it on the night before? What do you recommend?
I recommend before you cook it. So simply just shake. I love a shake and bake. Yeah. So shake it on your protein on your badge in the oven on the frying pan and you could as honestly as simple as that.
I think Josh you have the big covered where you actually purchase Jordan spices. But yeah, cooking bit is what we do. spending the time cooking because cooking can be fucking annoying.
Yeah, well, just to clean up. That's the problem that I have is I just met such a mess. And that's like the spicing is the problem where it's like, having it in one bottle. So it's like, eliminating the necessary things that I'm having to
on. I was just gonna say like a tablespoon of this. A tablespoon of that. And it Yeah,
and I get creative and I fucked up so many.
That's the issue as well is like people get really creative and then by the end the middle tastes like shit.
minced garlic is so fucking strong. Yeah, I remember like making guacamole where I got like a table, garlic and put it in jail. It was just like it was like making.
So I've always thought around having a brand like so you got your business, give it a name. But then it's like how injecting personality front up yourself, you putting yourself there? Are you trying to craft something? What, what's the approach mean for you?
And it's, it's been a funny journey. So I think I've already mingle two years. And I would probably say only in the last like three or four months I've really put started to put myself out there. So I felt like the brand had enough personality with the product with the communication that I didn't really need to be front and centre. And I think also the, in that social media environment. I just knew that, you know, posing with a crop swap after my yoga class and like standing at a cafe taking a picture of my Seibel was just like not my vibe. And so yeah, I kind of have a separate identity away from mingle and haven't really been like, hey, on the mingle, spice go. You should you come in now I'm coming in now. Yeah,
so that's the last one that you saw a bow after yoga. Last Picture.
No, I, I've started to put myself out there. But I've I've realised that you know, it's the rule honest storeys that are really resonating with people. So I have started an Instagram account very early days, but I'm trying to share the the ups and downs of how it is to run a company, rather than just all the flashy shit and kind of how amazing is my life? But, you know, at 10pm when I'm packing boxes still lack there is? Yeah, this is fantasy and reality with the social media world.
Is there something bit annoying about having to I know, brand yourself as the Spice Girl or this sort of single sort of, because I realised that we spent like 28 minutes talking about spices, and there's so much more to you and stuff that you've done. Do you see that as a challenge where it's like, actually guys have got so much more to offer? Because it is, for whatever reason, I don't know what maybe it's because not a tech company. Like it's not like when you're talking about tech or something like that. There's all these areas which we naturally go whereas like when we talk about a physical product, it's even with Siam with a tiger, you can get obsessed on like chocolate and that sort of thing. Is that a frustration or something you think about?
Yeah, yeah, I probably would say that, that I've kind of been winging it for the last two years. And yeah, I would probably say I'm a lot more than just spices. But it's you do get kind of into that dangerous territory of being associated with your business. And that becoming a huge part of your identity. So I've tried my best to separate it. And
yeah, the reality is like your dad and your grandpa had their own businesses, it's a bit scary. There's a lot of comfort in working for somebody and then did you grow up looking because I remember looking at my dad had his own business. It's like he wasn't ever that worried. I'm not that I saw about money coming in. So there is that element of you need to put trust in what you doing? Did you learn that stuff from your dad?
Yeah, certainly. And I think my dad still like works, he's bought off and I kind of have just realised like, business is hard work. And it's great. And it's kind of getting your hands dirty. And I think it's a long term game. Game and all of it will eventually pay off.
So you're doing math. What is that? So? Yeah, what what is map about? I know a little bit about it. We've had emails for a map. Night map at Melbourne accelerated programme.
Yeah, three Melbourne Uni. So yeah.
So explain. Yeah. What are you doing it mapping? What does it mean when your business like it gets involved in map? How does that all work? Yeah.
So math is an accelerator programme. So every year, Melbourne Uni supports 10 startups to help accelerate their business. And applying for that programme, I had major imposter syndrome because there is a crazy as entrepreneurs, tech startups
in that space.
And I was like, Who am I? I'm just the Spice Girl that blends some spices that Josh could probably create himself. And you know, he already thinks he can
be a seasoning brand. Probably single.
Yeah, now I'll just go Yeah. Actually, that's a great day comes with applying face. Yeah. Yeah. So you you what was the actual process? what it what sort of information do they want to be able to back you in?
I'm sorry, I had to have to pitch in front of like, 50 people. That was the first round. And it was like a three minute pitch. It was timed. I'm not good with time constraints. It was like, Hi, my name is Jordan, and the founder amigos. Yeah. So yeah, you basically had to pitch the problem that you were solving traction that you'd had today. The team that was like, there was just a picture of me
with your side.
And then second round was meeting like a 45 minute interview,
we shooting yourself throughout this whole thing. Are you I pretty good?
Ah, no, I was shooting myself. Yeah, yeah. And I but I also was like, you have to be in it to win it. I think that's what I've realised is that you've got to put yourself out there and and give it a go. Like, what did I have to lose? And then third round was with some like heavy hitter investors, where they kind of like, it's like, Shark Tank style. Yeah.
no, no cameras, but they will like, what's your cost per acquisition? And like, what's your five year plan? And process? Yeah, you're, you're rushing this and you're not focused? And yeah, but it was, it was a great experience. How much of that stuff
had you actually thought about?
Um, most of it, I've thought about, but they also were kind of calling me out on on my shit as well. Like, I'd recently pitched to Wes. Yeah. And I think it was kind of a goal of mine to get into a retail store. But I was, let's be honest, I was trying to take a leap instead of the next step. And one of the investors kind of called me out and was like, black, you currently don't have a team? Like you need to, you know, slowly build this business and, and I think you're rushing going to war with us. And she was right.
Yeah. How do you do a food product? So you started pretty much on econ? Was that right?
started on income? Yeah.
How? What's the, you know, what's the details around doing a food type product in the e commerce space in the sense of what people want? Like? Are they going to like do people tend to buy once and then they lawyer what some of the information that you have on that sort of thing?
I'm sure Josh is busy.
What's a tasty pitches? I think inspiration like people want to say, tasty food, and like how they can use the product in kind of an everyday cooking context. And then, I guess in a digital context, it's all about it's all about those, those funnels and re targeting and getting the customers back to to purchase more
get them when they win it. And there's RPM almost it seeks doing its bosses. Yes.
And clearly, and clearly, like you've, you've created something that a lot of people are identifying has so much value, like all of these incubators that you're getting involved involved with, what has been the lesson because I guess you'd sort of been operating for like, over a year before you started going into some of those, like, what what did you learn on the other side of, you know, doing those pitches that you may have been sort of not thinking about?
Um, I guess, focus, I think focus was like, the big thing that Yeah, implementing from A to Z, what I'm set out to do, and not being blindsided by, you know, a shiny carrot, or, like, we all have great ideas, but it really comes down to executing things and getting shit done. And so, I'm a great talker, I'm a great picture, I can sell the dream, but at the end of the day, like numbers, yeah, it's, it's the numbers, it's the action. And, and that's what's going to, I guess, keep my business alive,
which is the, the reality nowadays, you say, people are seeing people with lots of followers on Instagram, and they might have a product. But if the business might not actually be doing any good, if they're not thinking about this stuff, you know, like, you've got 35,000. And it sounds like you've actually got your seasonings in lots of storeys, so it's like, you need both, you can't just have one or the other. I know you probably be better if you had the other of actually understanding the business side or you need both. What do you think?
No, I definitely think you need both. Like you need those fundamental, essential elements of, of business. And I've really been trying to implement this Lean Startup model. So I definitely like it's so easy to scroll Instagram and be like, oh, that person has a flashy office and this and that. But like, you know, when you're a startup business, like, let's keep it lean back for the first went, once I quit my job, for the first four months, I was working out of public libraries, because I was like, let's just keep the overheads really damn like Wi Fi, free Wi Fi, like sitting next to Bob, who's starting to ACA like,
just packing minutes, but
I like the name. So I was expecting both to be older. Yes. Yeah. Rob, Robbie. See? And so what if you had to spend money? Where do you think you can't sort of go wrong spending your money? is there is there an area where it's like, actually, like, we can't be taught in this area?
Yeah, so I'm kind of there right now. So courtesy of the map programme, there was some funds up for grabs. And so now it's kind of I need to invest in a staff member to kind of help me continue to grow this because at the moment, I'm a jack of all trades, and probably a master of none. And also, you know, things like this doing a podcast with two legends, but like, currently,
we got mentioned as a model like what did Jeff to our
fashion, this is why we do it. Yes. This is why we do it. And I go on. Sorry.
I was currently no one's wearing. You're my business right now. Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, I kind of lost by the way.
Yeah, so I really need to, I think investing painful and realise that I can't do everything. And I can't be good at everything. So getting the right people on board, but it's scary. It's like,
it's a whole salary. You don't realise how like, for so long, I ran my business as a single salary, like a good salary. I'm like, Yeah, man, I'm doing well. But it's like, I'm literally just may. And as soon as I go on a holiday, it's all over. Yeah, who do you Who do you hire first? What sort of area? Are you looking at hiring?
Um, so I've definitely been going back and forth. And originally I was like, it's a salesperson. Because I need to continue to grow my business. And now at the now I'm at the point I've written the position description that I it's going to be someone more in the operation side of things to help me kind of run the day to day side of the business so that I actually can go out and be that sales chick. Yeah.
Yeah. And how do you even like, this is something Tommy and I talk about a lot is forecasting, and how fucking dumb it is, in some regards, where it's like, all right, well, we have this amount of listeners on the daily talk show. So we'll times that by two and that's how many were going to get and we we both know that we're just bullshitting. Yeah, how do you forecast without just being a massive bullshit? Or do you just embrace the fact that you're a bit of a bullshit like how do you work out like, is is a good is a good season in business? $5 million a year business? Is it a $2 million? Like how do you how do you work that sort of stuff out?
Look, I'm still I'm still working it out. So I'll let you know but I kind of am working like month on month so how many new accounts Do I have to get and haven't to be honest really mapped out where the end goal is? Yeah, but if I can live you know a comfortable life and continue to grow year on year then I'm a pretty happy camper.
Do you think it's important to find some you said like the end you don't know where that is? Because they probably use now and then death factor to that date. thinking ahead guy just coming up with one place a destination maybe it is Yeah, because it will change when you get there. So it's like hey, do you think it's actually important to
do you think is that lifestyle a thinking about like this is a lifestyle? I want all these the types of customers I want or this is the impact what what is the actual other than revenue? What's the metric that you using gaping
for me its impact. It's like I get so excited when you know a mom emails me going Hey, my kids now I veggies or like I feel really confident now flavouring my food and my kids love. Love mingle. Yeah. So it's really sharing that that message. And I always say the cooking experience is more flavoursome than just the food. It's about people connecting over food. It's about that experience that people feel like a master chef. And that you can with mingle, you can transform your meal with one shake. So it's it's kind of spreading that message and getting people to connect over there tasty creation crazy
people actually writing not like, I'm surprised when people write into our show, which is amazing. But I'm like, whoa, this is so cool. Like that's for us. And I can imagine you getting those Yeah, holy shit was written to me about spies.
What sort of people reach out What did they say? So you said that the sort of the parent any, any oddballs, any weird ones,
any weird ones. I mean, people do, but I get a few like, Sofia, she's spiced up my life.
How many flavours? How many different seasonings do you have?
I've got I've got some seven at the moment. And I'm kind of working on a few new ones.
And so is it about one's good for chicken one is good for lamb. This one's good for veggies and a question. If I'm if I'm using it, should I use a different one for my veggies than I do for my mate so that it had some difference?
Different complexities. So it's a range of different flavours that you can, you can shake any of them on your chicken or your badge. So it's really for everyday cooking. Just like different flavours for a different day to keep things spicy. And variety is the spice of life
that you have got some serious like one liners that you've worked at. Yeah, is the you know, what's, what's a typical day? What do you actually do it like, I feel like I can get into I love writing copy. And that's a good way that like with Tommy and my new business is like, the the first thing that we've been doing is actually writing the copy for the website because it actually works out like what are we trying to communicate? What are we offering? Like, where do you spend your time nowadays? What does it look like?
Um, I guess previously was a bit of a shocker, like, I'd look at my to do list and everything was kind of deemed to be important. But I'm slowly realising I've got to work on the things that are going to move the needle. And for me at the moment, that's really like more customers. So at the moment, it's kind of first start at the start of the day is really like customer acquisition. What's this digital strategy? Where are we at with numbers? And then how are we going to kind of get get to those numbers for the week?
And is it a business that sort of an end goal could be acquisition? Like, what is like, do you even think about that? So? So? Yeah, I mean, that can happen, right? Like that's, like, one of the, you know, big super markets by like in the ones all the time, like, have you thought about that sort of side of things?
I've said, I've certainly thought about it, but it's not the reason why I started my business. And I think if you if you start a business just purely based on the numbers and figures, like kudos to you, but it's just I can't wake up every day, thinking of a monster foods buying me. If you're if you're out there, let me know. Like, let's mingle, but
bingo, Zynga. And so the what is the what would be the next category? Like what else? What else excites you outside of spice that you would do a business in? Do you think?
I've definitely looked into sauces and dressings. And I guess yeah, that's probably a five year plan. I've got a few curry blends coming out in the next month or so.
What's the difference between a curry blend and a curry paste?
So one's dry and one's wet? Okay,
quite popular. The moment like the risotto ones where they cut, it's actually got the risotto in the bag actually poured out into water. And it's got the stock in the spices and then just cooks.
Dad, that is pretty handy. Would you? Would you ever do that? Like is that is? Would it be against your ethos to put the seasoning directly on the chicken so people could like is that even a thing? Could people do that? Have you thought about
I have thought of that. Or a little sashay on on the Indian chicken packet? Yeah. Yeah, no, that that definitely is a consideration. But yeah, once again, kind of focus. And at the moment, it's like realising that I'm one shaman. I've got 24 minus eight hours of sleep. I've only got now is in the day, and I've kind of I've got to keep my eye on on that.
Good to know you're getting it out. Otherwise, I'd sleep.
Yeah, I literally got six and my eyes like twitching.
But you're working hard up
into the I'm not really like it's pretty real. I compared compared to what you're doing. It's a bit of a joke.
I was thinking about that person in the incubator programme on the map, saying you probably shouldn't have gone for the Cold War worse. Yeah, I was like, fuck if you landed that. You might fuck it up. Yeah, I totally win. And it's like, I think people giving advice on what you shouldn't shouldn't do. Yeah, you should be placing inside the How do you know what's good advice? Because if that if you want that would have paid off?
Yeah, yes. Question it. I think it's about questioning the default thinking around it. Right? Well, so it's not like, it's not that that's the wrong approach. But it's asking like, does that work within the filters of what I'm trying to do? And is it if the
Yeah, I think it's hot new at all, when you shouldn't have done that?
No, I To be honest, you have to have thick skin in this startup environment, but it has in the last few weeks really got quite noisy. Like I think opinions are like assholes. Like there's always one. And people really do want to share their opinion and project their experience or like and people genuinely do want to help me. And I really have started to learn to consolidate ideas and go Okay, what's what's right for me? Yeah, so it's about processing old advice and tips and tricks that I'm being given and then kind of picking picking a few that apply to me, but I don't regret pitching for us to be honest. Like, I think
part of the journey to get to the point of like getting that bit of advice. You had to do that. Yeah, like learn it yourself.
Yeah. I am that meeting I was bloody to get to that meeting was bloody nightmare. Sorry,
I hate when the shop old.
Boys head office is like an hour and a half away about an hour away from Sydney city. And so I decided to stay at a hotel the night before Rodney West HQ. So it was just a cheeky 10 minute drive. Get there early. And just keep calm being designed. Anyway, it was like bumper to bumper traffic. My I think the buyer picked this time to test me it was a 9am meeting. So I think there's about 2000 people that work at West HQ.
So all the bumper to bumper was just the car park.
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, sorry. It was like I had a lad. 45 minutes from the hotel. 10 minute drive. I have to get into West HQ. And I had I didn't move for like 1015 minutes. Uber or what was that? I was driving driving. Yeah, I had a hybrid four wheel drive. So this worked in my favour. Sorry, bumper to bumper and I was like, What am I going to do? So ended up veering left instead of going right? And I was like, I'll do a U turn. And then got to the lights missed two or three rounds of lots and I was like shit, what like I'm gonna miss this meeting. And I've worked so hard. And also you don't get many chances to pitch to always
What do you bring prop wise? Do you have like all your seasonings and shit like that? Like, do you have a T shirt? Yeah.
Yeah. Ah, what did I have? I had some sweet potatoes, some olive oil. I had some shake and bake kits. Yes.
Actual sweet potato. Yeah. Okay.
And uncooked. It was kind of like, take this argument and mingle in the kitchen.
Okay, was it sold in like a pitch? Like, how did they? What was the communication that you had beforehand?
The communication was like, Hey, I'm the Spice Girl trying to shake things up in the spice aisle. Mentioning to Bonnie did help. I was like to Bonnie Giovanni.
And I guess those retailers, they constantly want to, you know, innovate and look at new products. So I did get a reply quite quickly. So I was like, Whoa, maybe I'm onto something. But yeah.
So I'd been a little bit of what so but there was there was definitely, you felt that you landed this opportunity that you were not necessarily expecting, like you were. So you're in the car. You've you've hit a few lights. What happens next,
then? Good old Jordan the curb because I was just like I told me. It was like Fast and Furious style. It's just like, foot on the accelerator. I was like passing everyone waving like Sorry, sorry. I was like, please, like I say goodbye. I did. I'm like,
they probably would respect that. Yeah.
And anyway, made it with like, two minutes to spare. But it kind of worked in my favour, because then the buy came out. And he was like, how's your morning Bain? And I was like, wow, this just shows like the level of dedication that I'm I'm willing to bloody drive a legally football Well, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Mounting? I did. Yeah. But it kind of like, I think in those professional meetings and context. And also, I think by is retail buys especially just have a bad rip in the industry for being. Yeah, but yeah, it kind of put a meeting back to that human level. Yeah, yeah. Kind of a centre.
So did you spend time in reception? I always find that. Interesting. I feel like less as you get older and you're doing more things. I feel like this feels like it's one of those pivotal moments where doesn't matter how old you are, how much experience you've had this, this meeting is going to have that sort of anxiety. How does it come out for you? Do you? Do you get all sweaty? I like sweat profusely, which is, yeah, it's sort of annoying. What's what was your what was the monologue was the monologue like in your head,
um, I definitely had sweaty palms.
But I also tried to not be attached to the outcome as like, will was doesn't define the success of my product, like I'm rocking up here. I'm going to know more about how to pitch like, and I'm going to learn a lot. And I think that's maybe why this journey has been so fun. And I'm kind of just progressively I'm just learning day in, day out. And did you hit you with anything that you couldn't answer? No, I guess the the chobani programme did help with that. So we've kind of worked through different personas of different buyers. Throughout that, that course of that programme. So
what do I care about? What did they ask?
I mean, it's very numbers driven. Um, and it's also like, how are you going to bring new shoppers to my aisle? So it's,
so they want to say potentially, like a digital spend that you're doing? Or something like that? Or what does it actually look like?
It's Yeah, you certainly have to pitch some marketing, marketing numbers.
Yeah, I won't spend that,
ya know, so yeah, you're basically pitching that you're going to drive new shoppers into that aisle that are going to buy more spices and seasonings.
Well, what is the next like, big milestone for you? You know, what is the next big meeting? Or do you not see it like that,
um, I, I do have intentions of the end of the up chain to West friends, good old calls. Once again, not attached to the outcome. So I think the power of having a digital business is it works in my favour. And I really do love having that direct relationship with my customers. And it sometimes frustrates me when there is a middleman that doesn't believe as much in my product, and it kind of is like, you know, this outcome is determined by you and your KPIs and, and what you need to do for your job. So that does frustrate me a little bit. So open to pitching to retailers. And I think that is kind of the end goal, because that drives you know, that the that is mass rate retail and allows for my product to be accessible to the masses, but at the same time,
I can still rock it with that without the retailers.
what's what's the, you know, obviously, throughout all of this, specially the incubators, you've dealt with a lot of sort of, would be considered mentors. What makes a good mentor? What makes a bad mentor? Like how can mentors do a better job? And where do they go wrong? Do you think?
good mentors, acknowledge where I'm at, in my business. So it's very easy for someone to be like, Oh, just get an executive assistant, or just do this. And it's like, actually, being in touch with reality and kind of where I am. Rather than maybe where they are in their business. And, yeah, so I definitely have a few mentors. I like people call it me out of my shit. Yeah. And giving me a fresh perspective, because it's so easy to get caught up in that in that bubble. And think that people care as much about your product as what I do. So really just being that that soundboard of of support.
Have you found a mental? I mean, you know, looking for a looking for someone who's in the spice business. Are you looking for someone?
different category? Yeah,
I've been pretty lucky in the last probably six months, just people kind of coming into my life. So I kind of look for people that have different skill set. So I don't come from an accounting business background, so I definitely in that space. I've got one mentor. It's actually um, Pete's brother. Who I did the old NBA with. Yeah,
yeah. At shepherds, brother Peter, we had on the show previously did
yeah, so he's really been helping me with the the grind of numbers and more the kind of business strategy stuff. And then yeah, definitely someone in that FMC g food space. So tapping into the Melbourne Uni map community has been pretty, pretty great for that. And also the guys that show Bonnie kind of, even though that programmes finished, it's kind of the doors are always open. So I can always, always get some help there.
You find anyone that you're helping, because I think mentors are a funny thing. I look, I think about the people I have, I've chosen them, they haven't gone Hey, Tommy, I want to be your mentor, because then I'll be
ready for this formula. Is that right?
I just chose them personally, I replied with their advice or whatever. And I respect them. So it's like, have you found that with you? That you can identify anyone that's come to you going Can you help me or
I'm kind of always open to helping people so whether it's friends starting a little side hustle or Yeah, people people touching, touching base with me, I I love to pay it forward. And if I can share some of my insights and you know, good points and fuck ups and they can learn from that then I'm always happy to share and also because other people on their journey have given me that mentorship and and those learnings it's, it's nice to pay it forward to others.
How do you decide to how do you decide on which ones to take out? Like I got an email before someone I don't know how he found me for YouTube videos, and he's thing was all the headline subject was all work for you for free. Which is a fact that sounds appealing for that. Just be a suck of my time. Yeah,
yeah. So I don't know, how do you go about that? Knowing what do you have any strategies on like, what to what to people care about? You know, like, how do you show show value?
I, I am starting to realise that I do have to say no to a few people. Especially now that I'm starting to put myself out there. So it's really just sussing people out. And if it's if it comes across really self motivated, or I also just want to connect with like, really great people that just doing good, good thing. So
it shouldn't feel too transactional, right? That's if it says to whom it may concern or high full stack films. It's like a founder, right? Like LA or like, I'm, I'm the, the recipient, not disclose because the fucking bc saved me with 10. Other. It's just like, there are those and Tommy and I've done whole episodes about that shit, where it's like, especially when I tweaked all the search engine optimization for my business, the type of people that reach out, and the people that stand out are the ones that actually like connect on a human level. Yeah, say your name and I, they connect with exactly they be specific and specific, I think is Yeah,
yeah, the power of questions. But I, I do a great, that's why I hate contrived networking. I get sorry, transactional? Like, how can I get something out of this person that just
I mean, good networking, I think it can, can be really gross. One thing I wanted to know is how you like being called out on your bullshit. You vertical around?
I'm trying to work out. How do you invite people into do that? Because it seems like one of those areas that people don't necessarily want to slam you. But even with this podcast, I'll preface conversations I have with people. It's like, Hi, can you tell me something you hate about the podcast? And it's like, I want you to slam me right now. Yeah. And like trying to encourage people to, because the negative feedback is the stuff that's going to help us grow.
Josh says this to people to give us negative feedback. Not they don't and I'm not thinking that they've got nothing bad to say about a show because it's perfect, which it is, but but what I think is people maybe don't even go there or they're not willing to go there. So it's the type of person that will say, all right, so you fucked up at this point. Yeah. So I mean, that's the title. So you
know, he's really good at that, right? Which is like going super analytical and being like, actually, like, there was this one bit in this episode, or that and that, like, I love that like that, that, to me, is a great mentor and someone who's providing great feedback. How do you? Is there a method that you have in teasing that out and encouraging people just to slam you?
Yeah, I love that stuff. So I think also, that's why I was so excited to be part of this map, Melbourne Uni programme is to get out of my health fits Bo, bubble food bubble and be around like engineer's and tech nerds. And really, people coming from all different facets of life that have a fresh new perspective. And if I do eventually want my brand to be a mass market brand, like I need to convert, you know, the Joe Blow that maybe is driven by price or driven by something else, so
I love seeking out
Yeah, the negative side. Well, that's Yeah, that's how you gonna improve. What was it? So you mentioned old MBA. What was your experience like with that? What was your What did you do? Tell us about it?
Yeah. So epic experience. I I quit my job and kind of was looking for an opportunity to upscale myself. It was bloody intense. Yeah. Four weeks of like, shipping constantly.
They have the Australian times. I'm when you did it.
Yeah. So that was the first car hot. Yeah.
But yeah, great experience for me to kind of push through that resistance of shipping things that were maybe 80% of the way there. I think I'm a massive perfectionist. And yeah, it got me into that mentality of kind of just ship it and and and keep rolling and gaining that that momentum.
When did you do?
grind? Because automatically, I've got a business a car. I've got no time to do something like study as well. Yeah. Did you? Did you find? How's that experience?
Yeah, no. pretty intense, like the, I think had to ship something nearly every day.
Shipping fizzy doesn't mean physically San beatified. Yeah. What Seth Godin talks a lot about it, which is his programme.
So what Yeah, what does it look like? What what sort of projects you shipping each day.
So it's, it's very driven by the curriculum. And Seth obviously has kind of his methodologies and topics to kind of cover but it's really writing reflection cases. And I think what was refreshing as well as you go throughout school, and you're so driven by getting mocks and seeking that a, you're seeking that high distinction, but this is over the course of the four weeks, you don't really you don't get any of the those kind of external validation, other than that peer to peer feedback. So you write a reflection piece, and then you get P is kind of commenting and asking you questions, things that you kind of maybe didn't think of. And then I think you have a day or two to kind of reflect on those questions. And then you write a reflection pace based on based on that peer to peer feedback.
How many how many people were doing the course when you did it?
I think there were maybe, maybe 4040 people. Yeah, I definitely was the youngest. And I think that's that was a big lesson is like, when I feel uncomfortable, and sometimes like, Oh, damn, I feel like I'm the dumbest person in the in the room, where I learned the march
I did a life coaching course at 19. So look at it now. Okay, now, what about external people outside of your world? Like, for instance, people like to, I think bring you down. Maybe I'm overthinking it. But someone said to me, I had a little podcast and it just sounded really patronising. Well, that little thing, right? Yeah, it's great. But I thought about him and how he said it and how he phrase it probably didn't mean much behind it. Yeah, but people do like to categorise your has
a little. And we also like to read into shit to write it out on the podcast, when you're doing it on your own, like the you have the ability just to go real in, you find that that sort of stuff. Did it used to rattle you do?
Ah, yeah, I think tall poppy syndrome, especially in Australia is is pretty huge. So I think maybe that's as well why I've taken so long to kind of put myself out there as as the founder. Yeah, maybe driven by a little bit of criticism, or people being like her does she think she is? So once again, I love feedback. I kind of I love that kind of pushback.
When you turn it into few, it's not going to affect you as much. So you go, Okay, take this on.
Yeah. Yeah, carry on. Yeah.
What seems hard, fucking dumb business.
It seems hard to improve from positive feedback, to be honest, like to me, like, for someone who loves change, I find it hard to take positive feedback. Because, for me, it doesn't give me anything new that I can actually implement. And so it becomes this stagnant. Like, I think that the day that we stopped getting negative feedback, I'll probably struggle because I always need something like, what can I do next time? That's going to make it a little bit better than
Yeah, the one I think the other side of that is maybe not being able to celebrate the wins, because that's a really positive thing to be doing. Yeah, that's got to where we have because we've done so much hardware. Yeah, that doesn't feel like you're moving forward. And I feel you as well, I feel must be the same.
Yeah, that's certainly true. I'm trying to appreciate the little wins along the along the journey, because it's so easy to be like, and next. Yeah,
yeah, I got pulled up by a client once when she's giving me a compliment about the video stuff. And she said, your shit asset taking a call from it? Yeah. Really? Is I so true. I don't like it made me feel uncomfortable when you're patting me on the back in that moment. Right? If I owned it, so yeah, thank you so much for that.
I heard something where I was like, if you if you you've got to be good at accepting compliments more for the other person as well. Because if they're giving you a compliment, and you can can't take it, if sort of fact to the transact like you've fact it for them, because I've tried to say something nice. And you basically just identify, yeah, so just being, you know,
I mean, empathy for the person because I think it can be hard, giving somebody a good compliment, as it
sounds. We might use ring when I do it. I can't be nice to people. Yeah.
Yeah. vulnerable. It's like, yeah, maybe it's because you had how you react to positive feedback that you'll guy in fact, if I give these positive, they're going to freak out. They'll feel like I do
it. Maybe there's a level of vulnerability there. Yeah. Or it's just like, yeah, deny, sort of weird.
So we're about I can't give you any positive feedback on it.
So where can we buy it? So mingle season you said 400 plot? Like what the fuck? That's a lot of place. Yeah. I had a shelf life work quickly.
So I've got 18 months shelf life. Oh, great. Yeah. So spices is kind of they they last a long
time. That's good. And so yeah, where can people buy it?
I'm going to say mingle, seasoning. calm. Yeah. Take that conversion.
Yeah, absolutely. And given the way don't sell anything. If you listen to the show, and you need say that you get mingle, seasoning, take a fucking photo and send it to us. Hi, the daily talk show.com with your sidebar. Like I was saying, like I'm excited to when I get back to Melbourne, like start cooking and the meal like meal prep and shit. Yeah, it's just like, it's the same ethos of wearing the same clothes. Like being able to, like have one thing that I have to think about. Yeah, is nice. I'd
be maybe Jordan you can be Joshua's mentor in the
more Tommy's planning for us to do all this. Game exercising. Yeah. Jordan Evans, thanks for being on what's your what's your Instagram, by the way, because you just started a
tie. Yeah. The mingle Spice Girl. Yes, a
daily talk show everyone Hope all is hypo as well. Hi at the daily talk.