Money Money Money

Josh: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Tommy: That's crazy. We've committed to do The Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Josh: Hi guys. Hi guys.

Tommy: Put it in the calendar. I'd just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Josh: It is outrageous.

Tommy: Come on, let's go. It's The Daily Talk Show episode 1002.

Josh: What is happening? Happy Tuesday.

Tommy: I've got to say, it's getting harder to say the numbers the higher you go.

Josh: 3,485. It doesn't have the same ring to it. But in terms of looking at the number, it looks much better.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I feel like there's a, as we mentioned yesterday, study again, like the way we set it up, just saying it's easy. Like if we forget that today is the second episode within the thousand, we're real dummies. But then again, we're real dummies.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe. What's been going on?

Josh: Oh, I discovered these new YouTubers this morning thanks to Bodhi. It's pretty amazing that you have a kid who knows how to navigate YouTube.

Tommy: Well, the interesting thing when you came over to our place, Bodhi wanted to watch YouTube and I just went to load up YouTube and Amy said, have you got kids YouTube?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which I don't, but it's a very easy—

Josh: It'd be odd if you had kids YouTube.

Tommy: And so, it was very easy, though, on the Apple TV, there's a specific app which is kids YouTube. The funny thing is when I installed it and then played some videos for Bodhi, I set it all up and I'm like, there you go, mate. And then I went off and then Amy went back and turned the TV down because I think me, when I was a kid, I loved loud stuff. And so, my assumption was like, you know what's going to really impress him? Blasting it.

Josh: This morning I went and had a shower and I came back and he turned it from 10, which is a a good volume to 21. And he, it must be just he likes, he always gets it to 21 somehow.

Tommy: And is the problem him losing hearing?

Josh: No, it's just too fucking loud in the house. And especially the type of content, people yelling.

Tommy: So, what are the YouTubers that he's just discovered?

Josh: Dude Perfect. Dude Perfect.

Tommy: Oh, that's his.

Josh: Have you heard of these guys? Holy shit. This is, it's what I love about YouTube. Among many things, is that there is people who are so successful, so famous, and no one knows about them. But somehow they're so fam— like, they have their audience. So Dude Perfect is a comedy group. Dude Perfect is American sports and comedy group headquartered in Frisco, Texas, United States. The group consists of twins Cory and Coby Garrett Cody and Tyler, all of whom are former college roommates at Texas A&M University. You know how much these guys are worth? No. $30 million. You should see their fucking Facebook-size office. Facebook have like a ginormous space in San Francisco.

Tommy: But why did you use that as a reference?

Josh: I just had to realise that I had to tell people about it.

Tommy: Facebook-sized offices.

Josh: Because if you know Facebook and their office, it's a campus. It's, yeah, it's a small university. Anyway, this is more along the lines— I was being hyperbolic. It is a— It's half Bunnings.

Tommy: Okay. It's quite big.

Josh: It's Bunnings Collingwood.

Tommy: But a good sort of installation and stuff, because I find what doesn't impress me is just seeing sort of a warehouse.

Josh: No, it's not a warehouse, dude.

Tommy: It's a fucking full office block. Good networking.

Josh: They've put a sticker on the top of their— The whole entire building on the top. So, when you're doing aerial shots, These guys have so much fun. They have this thing called, um, these things called RC, remote control cars, but these things are like high-powered electric RC cars.

Tommy: So, was this in the kids section of YouTube?

Josh: Yeah, these dudes are doing like jumping Mack trucks with RC cars and they're just having fun, dude. I was like, these guys are fun.

Tommy: Do you want to do it?

Josh: I mean, I wouldn't mind to have the, uh, 12.79 billion views and the money that got and the fun that they're having.

Tommy: That's why. Not to be negative on it or on you, but people who think that way, the way that you describe it.

Josh: I'm just being silly. I want the fun. I want the fun.

Tommy: But it's important to say because I think that if people who just want the money, fame, all that sort of thing, you don't do it because it's like—

Josh: Well, you don't.

Tommy: You need to get— There's a huge, huge amount of steps between where they are versus where they started.

Josh: No, just the fun is what I love. I love— of. And it all requires a means of getting, you know, having money to be able to have a fucking Mack truck that you—

Tommy: these guys go back to their first videos. What were they doing at the start? Nah, I'm curious. I find that really interesting, seeing what they were doing on day one, because then you can sort of reverse engineer it in some ways and say, okay, because everyone can look at the Facebook size office, all of this sort of stuff, and say, okay, well, that's completely unattainable. If you go back to the first videos of MrBeast, for instance, you know what he was doing?

Josh: Just, just like, uh, Logan Paul, Logan Paul, Logan Paul, Logan Paul, Logan Paul, Logan Paul, Logan Paul, Logan Paul.

Tommy: Which you do that and you don't even film it.

Josh: I know, he said Logan Paul for 24 hours straight, some crazy shit like that. All weird, unique stuff that there is for everyone. Like, that becomes a MrBeast, there's millions and millions that are nobodies in that respect.

Tommy: If you were to, if you were to think about all of the different, um, personas online, so you have podcasters, YouTubers, TikTokers, do you think that you fit in most to the YouTuber? Like, do you think that if you were to—

Josh: I'm not a TikToker. Yeah, not skinny and not chiselled enough jaw and dumb hair to be a TikToker. Um, Instagram, yeah, nah. Twitter, absolutely not. No, YouTuber. Yeah, well, because just that fun, just being a kid just out there doing stuff. But you see how this is, they've got a serious empire that they've now built. Yeah, to make $30 million comes a lot of stress and pressure to not fuck it up.

Tommy: Did you Google it or something? How did you find out $30 mil?

Josh: I was wondering how, like, I was actually, so this is it, watching their video thinking Holy shit, look at that size space they have. Look at the amazing studio. And then just the resources they had building jumps and ramps and pulling shit out. And just, they were good together, these guys. 4 people navigating, uh, you know, a duo is hard enough, let alone having— imagine 4 people that you're— 4 people's emotions every day, plus all the staff. And that would be hard. And then I was like, how big are these guys? Why are they, why are they on, why is my— like, I was getting around the content hard with Bodhi. I'm like, I'm gonna cheque these guys out. Yeah, Dude Perfect. And they have good branding. DP, DP, it's like dude, DP. They've just got like their branding spot on. And then they've got other, other brands. And you see, the thing is, what— I know you, you're right, I was being silly about just all the, the money and all that shit.

Tommy: Well, just because I just think that you don't— I, I think that that is I think the evolution that you've had, I think that you were way more like, if you go back to where your mindset was 3 years ago, there was more of a Tommy Jacket wanting to be rich and famous, whereas I think that you've evolved beyond that.

Josh: Yeah, not that it even was in my head of rich and famous years and years ago, but not really starting this. If you thought we're going to be rich and famous from starting this—

Tommy: Well, the thing is, I think that part of it is that because you and I have had the— I remember um, blowups on the dumbest things. Like, uh, uh, Spotify— I remember you talking about, uh, people selling to Spotify, or, you know, this person is 200 mil. Like, I always hate that shit because there's a, there's a disconnect. Or even saying the— saying it to people where it's like, oh, you know, Joe Rogan sold for this, or blah blah sold for that. It, um, it can be a form of hiding, or it's a— or it's like it's focusing on the wrong bit. If that makes sense, because like, yeah, success might come, but the— you need to be enjoying the process. And the other thing too is it's like there's no guarantee. Like when we started doing the podcast, there wasn't a— that thought of that $200 million, like that's never been part of the discussion. And so, I find it interesting when podcasting started to become more and more popular over the last 3 years. All of a sudden that becomes a part of the conversation because people see these big deals, but it's actually not— like, it's a bit of a disconnect.

Josh: Yeah, it's important for the industry. This may— it's indicators of attention to something, and there's plenty of people who have had the goal of making lots of money out of something they do and made it work.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so actually having it as a thought— so yeah, you're right, if, if your only thought is the money and you actually hate doing it, you won't stick around to do the thing. But there's also find of—

Tommy: there's a bunch of people who go to industries that are purely financially driven. Um, and I guess sometimes it works.

Josh: It definitely does sometimes.

Tommy: Look at the tech industry though. Like, um, so imagine someone using the example of Facebook and that being sort of a North Star or a reason for them starting a social network or something like that. It's um, maybe I mean productive, but maybe it's also just, um, just, I don't know, I think it part of it comes from like we were talking about Instagram and I sort of relapsed. I've been, uh, went really hard on, uh, the Reels and stuff.

Josh: It's heroin addicts get to cheque their fucking, their arms. I cheque your fingers. Yeah, yeah, you've got bloody calluses.

Tommy: And so that's from the golf. But the, um, no, one observation that I don't like about Reels and TikToks and all of this sort of thing is there is a lust to come down. No, there's a— there is like a consumerism sort of built in, right? Like, I think that if you look at what goes to the top, and to your point, talking about sort of their space and all that, like, think about it, it's, it's such an easy thing to talk about. Like, look how big their space is, look at the— but then there's the other question of like, What are they doing for the world? What are they— Are they enjoying the process? Are they doing all of X, Y, and Z? And so, I think I was thinking about people who have a lot of money. There was a bunch of people, like, you might remember this, especially sort of growing up near Brighton, kids who had a lot of money who would try and like, they would use that obviously to try and have friends or to be, you know, have people around them. That stuff never lasted, right? Like it wasn't, you could see.

Josh: I didn't see it like that. I don't think. I think as you get older, you see kids flaunting their money, but there's only a few that I can think of that actually became quite fucking successful in that respect. They had the leg up to get the financial backing to start a fucking development company or.

Tommy: But there just seems to be.

Josh: Taking over dad's business.

Tommy: Looking at say Reels or whatever, you just see there's a certain type that's on there. That's just rich kids showing their stuff.

Josh: Definitely.

Tommy: And then you see the people around it and it's like, oh, I could see how that could become really destructive from a personal perspective. Like, if that's— think about all the worth and even all the platforms that they're building is based on, look at all the stuff that I have, look at the cool things I have.

Josh: I definitely— there's this young kid that I follow that, um, has— seems like he's got a lot of cash. He drives fucking Lamborghinis, Ferrari. Like, he drives— he lives in Melbourne and he sells online courses. Like, it's all snake oil, but he sells a lot of them. Like, I inquired with somebody that I know and said, does this guy actually make— and he's like, yeah, there's heaps of money there. But the, the exchange is selling the dream to people that never probably attain the dream, and then you're using this sort of illusion where you might hire them. They're probably all hired. And so I don't, I don't necessarily— I see how you could get swept up in that, and so much ego at the time that you're flexing on a social media, which you're saying, like, the trap is when the flexing is actually your marketing, and then your business, and then your lifestyle is expensive that then you just, you can't stop.

Tommy: But it's a, it's a weird societal thing too because it's a status symbol. So, people can quickly make or ascertain their opinion on something based on someone's wealth. And so, that person's wealthy, so, you know, X, Y, and Z. Like, they'll draw a conclusion.

Josh: Yeah, but I mean, for the, the way they're obtaining the cash is, is the one thing. If you've just been handed a fucking, uh, what do you call it, a trust fund.

Tommy: Well, it's like, um, I saw a, uh, a meme that's like harmless. It was, um, you know, nowadays, before I, um, like when I was a kid, when you're trying to find someone's place, you would just Google it, or if you found out their address. Now the first thing you do is Chuck it into realestate.com.au. Yeah. I was thinking about that. It's like, they're like, I understand, I understand it, but there's also like a highly, highly toxic element to this culture, which is, oh, what's that house worth? Oh, what do they do? Oh, like, how much are they making? Like, it, I think that there's, um, it feels like it's happening a lot. I saw an article, um, uh, in the paper, hashtag in the paper, At the golf club, just fucking flicking through the paper, having a bloody cappuccino.

Josh: So, extra choccy on top.

Tommy: Absolutely. Do I have choccy on my lips? I'm having a mocha right now, everyone. The, no, so pre-2020, around 8% of people buying homes had the support from their parents. So, they were getting some cash from their parents., for the deposit. It's at over 50% now.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So, there's been a huge shift in that, and they reckon that's why one of the reasons why the property market is booming is for whatever reason, parents are putting in for deposits. Sometimes up to like 90% of people's deposits are coming from their parents. And so, the hard thing is if you look at— So, if you look at different metrics or markers for success, if you go down the route of how big someone's house is or how big their office is or how— what sort of clothes they wear. It's not necessarily like— for the most part, it's not an indicator of success. It's just an indicator of like wealthy parents, generational wealth. And so, I just catch myself being like, okay, well, what is the things that I do value? So, is it like hard work, or is it, is it, um, balance? Being able to, to, um, live a great life and also work hard, focusing on something you're passionate about, that you're excited about, collaborating with people.

Josh: Yeah, it's, um, Lewis Spears, comedian, has a great reel. You wouldn't watch it, it's on reels. Actually, you're— are you still in Newsweek? You're still in your relapse?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Watch it. But he talks about people who post photos of their sold signs, buying a house with dad's money or mum's money.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which is kind of pointing out what you're saying. Yeah.

Tommy: But so how— and the other thing too is how can you feel? Because, because the other—

Josh: some people don't realise you can, you can get, you can be privileged enough to be able to get a deposit from mum and dad, which is great. If I could fuck— if mum and dad were willing to do that for me, I would take it. They're just not willing to do that for me. They don't have the cash to do it like your parents don't. And so, some people just, that's their reality.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And that's what they do. And it, and maybe it is connected to status, but there is a disconnection that people do have to that. If their friends are all doing it, they're doing it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, they, so, when you're out of it, it's like when you're out of having the cash like these people do, because I think some people would be like, You get a poor man's mindset. Not— you're so afraid to look at people's net worth and work. It's like some of these are drivers for people. And so I get what you're saying, but there is also— there's probably another version of like—

Tommy: so the thing is though that it's not an indicator of, um, I think that looking at people's situations or whatever, I feel like that is the poor man's mindset is the, um, I like just sort of, I don't know how to explain it, but there's a, there's a, there's a certain, uh, cultural norm around that, like, oh wow, like looking at these markers. So looking at the house price, looking at all those sorts of things that actually aren't the— that has, it has no attachment to the reality in which the person came into that money, if that makes sense. So, it's like there's—

Josh: Well, it's their own path and so—

Tommy: And so, the part of it is, I guess, working out, alright, well, what is the— And this is where advice is hard too, because someone could say, this is what you should do. So, for instance, someone saying, I was speaking to someone the other day and they were saying, hey, I want to do my passion project. I'm not liking my work at the moment. I'm thinking of asking to reduce the amount of hours I'm doing at work, but I don't know if it's going to be worthwhile for them to keep me on for such a small amount. And it's so hard.

Josh: You told them to quit their job.

Tommy: Yeah. But that— Well, no. So, this is the hard thing is advice. So, it's a privileged position to say, "Just quit your job. Just like, just do it." But the other funny thing is everyone's got a different idea and thought around money. So, for instance, I said, oh look, if I had, um, if I had 6 weeks of money at your age, you know, 25-year-old, if I was 25 and had 6 weeks of rent and all of that sort of thing, I'd take the leap for freelancing, give it a crack, blah blah blah. This, you know, this specific person said, oh, I've got like a year's worth saved up. And so, but this is the thing, so there's like a very I think that, you know, when we started BMC, we both put $2,000 into the business. That was it. Like, and that's why, like, we can take pride in what we've built and being able to get through all this stuff. And there's obvious— and if you hear what people will say from a business recommendation perspective, everyone says the same shit, which is make sure you have X amount of runway, all this runway. But That's not the reality for most, for most people. And so, uh, runway is awesome if you can do it, but I think that you can get really— it's almost a way of keeping people not following, uh, not even their dreams, but like, it's playing—

Josh: you can— you're playing it a bit safer.

Tommy: And so when you take the safety away, but also that it's safer for people who's got— who have money. So I was even thinking about like crypto and things like that. It's like, well, we ask, okay, well, why wouldn't everyone do that? Like, why wouldn't you put money into it? Some people don't have disposable income. And so if you don't have disposable income, you're not going to spend it on crypto. So it's, it's all well and good to say, fuck, in 2014 or 2013, you spent $300, you could have gotten a Bitcoin that was worth X amount. But that time it didn't make financial sense.

Josh: Yeah. I was thinking the exact same thing. I didn't have the money to buy Bitcoin when my mate was buying it for $200, $300. It's exactly right.

Tommy: And so, and so you can get, I guess, advice. Um, I think that, yeah, I, I don't feel like I— the interesting thing is the, at the moment, being in sort of like playing more in the investing and doing all that sort of thing, it's so easy to think about life through the lens of money. Like, I can see I've never been, been that way. Like, I've never really done it. And I see how people get trapped in— it's like, um, reading comments, uh, on YouTube on certain cryptos. And you'll see, oh yeah, yeah. And you'll say, oh, this person, this person bought 20,000 of these, this coin, when it was worth, you know, 10 cents or whatever. Oh, now I'm buying it at $1.40. Like, even the funny thing is the mindset for me is like, even if I do win, it's not going to be as big as that win.

Josh: Yeah, but I think that is always something to be worried about. And so I think, you know, Theo Von, yeah, comedian, he was on his podcast talking about how he sold all his crypto and he, and the reason was he was thinking about it too much. He's like, I don't fucking need that. Time in my head taken by this thing. I don't even know what it is. Like, where is it? It's so funny because it is. It's like, where is my money? I see numbers on a screen. Yeah, but, and then, but then the bigger point is the time spent thinking about it. It's hard because there's sometimes advantages to being obsessed about money for some people that become successful and then pull the pin and be like, there's more to money, there's more to life than money. It's, you know, it was talking about that the other day. I mean, look at, um, Jeff Jowett posted this morning talking about how he, he, his company Body Trip did $100 million in sales. The guy has not much to show for that from that business because it went pear-shaped. But what he was in love with was the process of creating the fucking best ads. Body Trip, like, he would write, like, that was his superpower. And that's how you don't make a $100 million business without some superpower. And his was copy, doing, you know, uh, it's almost like psychology. What will people want to hear? How will they— yeah, but then that wasn't— he was a drug addict at that point. He's a sex addict. He's talked about it on our show. Alcoholic, fucked up. When I met him, he was very, you know, just on edge. He's very sort of tense. Different guy now. Much less money, loves his horses, loves his golf.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: You just need horses and a Jeff down.

Tommy: And get real lame. Get real lame. Love you, Jeff. And so if you think about, we're going to get Jeff back on.

Josh: Dude, I haven't seen, we haven't seen him in a long time. That'd be great. We fly him down.

Tommy: That'd be fun.

Josh: I'll use Dad's trust fund.

Tommy: Yeah, great. Yeah.

Josh: And you can sell out a bit of yours. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Bit of your dad's. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: Your dad was big in property, was it? My dad was mining.

Tommy: The, um, yeah, it's interesting. Like, so say if you go back to the original conversation around those YouTubers, is there a reframe or a—

Josh: I'm being silly when I say all that shit. I understand the realities of how tough it is for us having a small office. Imagine everything fucking 100x'd, everything, staff, costs, um, but is there a frame?

Tommy: Is there a reframe?

Josh: I don't think I'd have that much fun. You know what? I don't want to have that much fun.

Tommy: It's not even that. No, but I think that it's a potential next part of it, which is think about— so think about your, like, your mates have the most amount of money. I find my mates that actually, uh, fuck you rich, don't talk about— like, they're not talking about— they're not lusting after stuff. That stuff they're not saying, uh, this put like, oh, what 'What's that house worth? What's that person doing?' There is a version which once there is an arrival at that point, it's— I think that for most of these people, it was never a driving force even.

Josh: But what you're saying is, because there is the opposite, people who have their driving forces being money, money, money. They've made it. They've made it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so, they're not your friends. And so, it depends if— I mean, the people who are rich in my world probably haven't talked about it. Like, there's probably a more commonality of people who have money don't talk about, um, what they're making a year.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And the people with less money will round it up by 20%.

Tommy: Yeah, well, it's like the, um, 120. Yeah, it's, it's like they're on 80.

Josh: It's like the, uh, I was on, I was on 78 and I always said 80. Let's be honest, you fucking don't round that shit down, or you say that, don't say the right number.

Tommy: The, um, It was like when I worked at the radio station, would have celebrities in. The celebrity who has just come out of some low-status reality show, divas, pains in the ass. And then Will Ferrell, Justin Bieber, Pink, Kim Kardashian, all lovely.

Josh: Except Flo Rida.

Tommy: He demanded, I never met Flo Rida.

Josh: He demanded like Hot chicken, bananas.

Tommy: That's fine, that's fair. He's just hungry. Yeah, but so yeah, I think there is, there's a version of, um, how, like, what is your relationship with money? You know, like, there's that sort of, um, that idea that you're the, the tighter you try and hold on to it, the harder it is to, like, grasp. Um.

Josh: It is such a unique battle because there's people who are overgenerous and it fucks with them, but maybe they feel good about it.

Tommy: What's an example of that?

Josh: Just someone who is too generous with their time, their money, shouting people, but they really don't have the money to do it. And it's actually a bad relationship with money in terms of understanding where they're at and what it will mean for them. And, oh yeah, no savings, all that kind of shit.

Tommy: I remember hearing a storey of someone that got a quarter of a million dollars for a, um, A script that they wrote for a film and just like they got that money. Yeah. And they were just like, they thought they were so rich because they got this one big payment.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then it just goes away. But there's, um, yeah, there's a version of just staying with it. So, it's not like, so say there's, so there's a gener— generosity. Where do you sit with frugality, do you think? Are you a frugal guy?

Josh: I don't think so, because I think I would have more savings if I was. Maybe frugality is a— if you look at your savings, and in that, in that respect, I'm, I'm not. I'm probably more really willing to risk it, risk every penny to try and build something or do something that I believe in. Um, but then I think I've probably gone less So it's almost like it's what you're saying, 6 weeks of money, like that's crazy to some people. If you have 6 weeks of money and you're willing to put it all on the line, you're fucked in 6 weeks. Something takes years to build. But what you're saying is in 3 weeks I'll probably have a better understanding. And I've done it. I've done exactly what you've done. We did that with this business. 4 weeks didn't go shit. $4,000 didn't go anywhere.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: We didn't even have a computer. Like, that's half of a lens.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Not even a camera. And so, yeah, I'm— I guess I'm not— I'm not that frugal in holding every penny and putting it away, but I probably should have been in some respects at times. But it's all hindsight, like thinking about, you know, I could have bought an apartment years ago, like could have done this.

Tommy: But that is also the that's got the poor man's mindset written all over it, right? Which is just the, the coulda shoulda people where it's like, oh yeah, could— like, every—

Josh: everything is clear on what you should have done and blaming the situation where you're at now.

Tommy: Yeah, but also, like, you don't get any extra points, you don't get any cash for thinking about buying a house 20 years ago. Like, there's, there's no reward in that. Um, and so yeah, I just find it interesting, like, especially in these new markets, or, you know, like newer things, like say crypto, where it's like hasn't been around for that long, and hearing, just seeing myself and how I'm thinking about it. Um, and then what turns me, what turns me off those things is, um, people talking about how much crypto you'll need to become a millionaire, like, um, or retiring on, you know, this, this get rich, yeah, yeah, like get rich quick.

Josh: It's opium, as Conspiracy Jimmy says. Opium. You look for a little hit because it's— there is— I'm watching the same videos, or I'm actually reading the titles. I can't be fucked watching them because they're like, what crypto you'll need to buy to become a millionaire in one year, or that kind of shit. But that's— yeah, money's a resource and it does help in a lot of ways for a lot of people. But if you're making more than $30,000 a year, you're well above the average in the world. It's a good salary, which is fucked because you, when you're making $30,000 a year, you're like, this sucks, I don't have enough money. And then, but that's the, the trap of the storey and, and what it all means. Yeah, it's interesting because also, like, I even listen to these guys who go, uh, meditation people that have gone to India and spent 3 months in the fucking mountains. These are like legit people. They're not, you know, people that look like they haven't showered in months. And I catch myself thinking, fuck, where'd they get 3 months from to do that? Like, it's—

Tommy: I mean, but all these things are options.

Josh: They need—

Tommy: yeah, but all these things are options as well. So the weirdness is that there's the financial wealth, but then there's wealth based on time and flexibility. And that is like the craziness of all of this stuff is it's like, okay, what, um, what are you trading for that financial reward that you're wanting? If you are spending, if you are making a lot of money but you are constantly stressed and you're like, you're not living a good life, what's it all for?

Josh: Yeah. And so the person that thinks I want to go and follow my passion, or whatever you're saying before, um, and has a year— like, there's a high reality they go that way and realize, holy shit, it's not for me. Trying to work out how to quote, how to get money out of people, you know, how to do your thing, do your service, offer a good service— so many things to think about that just— so you almost— and that's why I'm like, the Advice if someone said, should I do it? It's like, if you want to, do it.

Tommy: Yeah, but yeah, I mean, someone said to me, they, they said, I'm gonna want to quit my job, I'm just sick of having a boss. And I'm like, well, having a service business, you have 100 bosses. Yeah, yeah, every client is a boss. Um, it might be, and you always say, hey boss. Yeah, it's all position. You can, you could position it differently. Um, and that's where I guess the mindset stuff comes in, like how are you positioning, this sort of thing. Um, yeah, I think, I think it's interesting. It's like, what are you, um, that question around like, what are you interested in gravitating towards? What's the, um, even cars. Like, I think that the financial stuff's really interesting. I even caught myself like, um, looking at what cars people have or things like that, which is— I've never done that before. I sort of catch myself just being like, oh, this is A, yeah, it's amazing the status stuff around.

Josh: It's sticky.

Tommy: All this sort of thing. And I don't like it. I think like, yeah, it's not—

Josh: I think when you're present enough to realise what it's doing to your insides.

Tommy: Yeah. Well, it's just like, yeah, just saying the, you know, adding stuff up as you go and saying, well, look at that car or look at that house or looking at—

Josh: What about people hyping things?

Tommy: Yeah. But that's why I feel like most of this is, it's like, there is so much hype. And then the other thing too is it just feels disingenuous. I think, um, the— you need like the narrative around you need to buy a house now. If you don't need— if you don't buy a house now, if you're not in the market, you're fucked. And it's very easy for some people to say that, but if you haven't worked hard to get that deposit Or if you're—

Josh: That hasn't been your goal, so you haven't been saving in that way.

Tommy: Yeah. If you haven't done that, like, it just seems like a bit rich to then to subscribe to this narrative, like anyone that doesn't buy a house is fucked. Yeah. I just find it interesting.

Josh: Oh, it's so interesting.

Tommy: And at the moment, there is that sort of FOMO. I feel like everyone's feeling—

Josh: Imagine FOMO. What would FOMO in caveman times look like?

Tommy: Yeah. Walking past it. Who's got the biggest muscles? Who's got the most meat?

Josh: Or there's a big boar on a spit and you're like, fuck.

Tommy: But then you think about like—

Josh: I nearly caught that one, too.

Tommy: Well, think about like travel. So, travel used to be a status symbol for people. It's like, you know, being able to go different places.

Josh: It is now just for real rich people. Like, think about jets and I still see people posting their photos of going on jets in America. It's like, There's less people posting, I'm in first class, so like, or I'm in business, off to Bangkok.

Tommy: I don't know why Bangkok. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: It's the Honolulu.

Tommy: Yeah. But, um, it's, yeah, it's all a— But if you can get out of that system, if you can get it off of the hamster wheel of, oh, this person's got this or that, or— I think that you can actually obviously be a bunch happier. And, um, and also not being so hard on yourself around like, oh man, I wish if I'd done this I could have done this. Or, um, yeah, I think that there's a lot of, um, in these times where it's like the market's hot and people are, you know, prices at— you know, I read in that article, it was like, um, just as the pandemic was hitting, uh sellers couldn't get, like, were having to discount their houses by 10% just to get people buying. Like, there was a big drop at the start of the pandemic and then it sort of had that massive influx. And there's so many—

Josh: Well, it's easy to say buy a property, you need to get in and feel that desperation thinking, fuck, I need somewhere, I don't know, somewhere. The amount of friends that I've got that have places that it was a struggle last year you have a lot of responsibility. You have rates, insurances, mortgage, like all these things are new problems. And it is like looking at someone with a big space, office space, and fucking having heaps of fun. It's like big problems too, greater issues. If you're leasing, you've just got your lease and your water and whatever. It's like you're not actually— that's why a lot of people say, um, uh, financial, like, uh, sorry, people that don't— rich people that don't own their own house, and people saying that renting is like dumb.

Tommy: Rent money is dead money.

Josh: Well, yeah, I've heard a bunch of— a few people say that renting is actually more freedom because you can leave at any time. Just pay your lease and fuck off. Yeah, don't own somewhere. Yeah, which is a different mindset, but it is clear that there are two mindsets.

Tommy: Yeah, but there's also stories, right? Like, um, Uh, you know, I was talking to my mate Naysan last night and I mentioned crypto. He's like, you know, I just want to be able to see the thing that I'm buying. I want to be able to fucking feel it. I want to be able to walk into it. You're talking about a house, you know, like, but that's what, like, a lot of people are paying at the post office for their bills. But yeah, but there's a— that is a, a storey which could be fine. Um, but then you look at— I think that the other thing too is you look at things like um, the, say, uh, index funds or stock and all that sort of thing. Like, it's all like, do you want to live your life— I'm speaking to myself here— around like trying, just obsessed with line graphs, just trying to pick like, just, okay, where is it all going to?

Josh: It's what it requires to win.

Tommy: Yeah. And even Conspiracy Jimmy, you said, what were you saying, that he, that there's the, um the crypto blues or something. It's like the—

Josh: Every Friday.

Tommy: Yeah. The feeling of like losing something. But it's like, yeah, there's— And this is why.

Josh: But my friend James has won in respects to crypto. If he sold it all now, but because he's obsessed.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because he's like the, you know, look at Barefoot and how interested in every aspect of that financial, you know, investing through stock market and like.

Tommy: But then there's another version, which is—

Josh: You get lucky on Afterpay. Buying Afterpay, early days selling.

Tommy: But even thinking about like, um, think about like super. No one thinks about their super. If we looked at these investments, if they were long-term investments like we do our super, where it's in there, it does its thing. Like, I think that the, um, there's, um, there's a new book by, um, Greg McKeown who wrote Essentialism. It's called Effortless, and it's all about, um, I just got—

Josh: 1 hour a week work.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, no, it's all about, um, Uh, you know, what is, uh, you know, defining when something is done and then not continuing to do work after that. So think about it from like an investing perspective, right? You put money into an index fund, or you put it into crypto, or you buy a house, or whatever it is. You then— like, I don't know, I've never bought a house, but do people buy a house and then just constantly look at the market to see where their house fits or where their next move is going to be, or Like there is a version which is, um, just chilling the fuck out a bit, you know.

Josh: Um, it's hard because then you also, you also don't want to be passive, stretched and anxious your whole life because you haven't fucking done anything.

Tommy: Yeah. And so there's, but there's a diminishing return. So it's like that, um, Tim Ferriss talked about the, uh, uh, minimum effective dose. That was his when he was talking about exercise science or health or all those sorts of things. It's like, okay, there's a certain level, there's a certain amount of training you can do. So, you know, you could do— the difference between doing 45 minutes at the gym and doing an hour and a half, there's probably like diminishing returns after the 45 minutes. And that's like life. I think that's the Greg McKeown's book, that's what it's about, is it's, um, you know, are you just overbaking? Is, is this turning into anxiety? And that's the point even on social media is I think that we're terrible, or me personally anyway, I'm terrible at regulating. So, it's like this is— There is a level in which is good, which might be posting once a week, but there's no clear distinction on when social— Social media is never done. It's this ongoing thing. And so, the problem is that when It's not, it's not like, um, uh, golf where you finish— had to mention golf at least once. It's not like you finish a round of golf and you're done for the day, right?

Josh: It's nearly empty.

Tommy: Yeah, it's not like social media. It's like, it doesn't matter if you wake up at 6 in the morning and go to bed at 10:30, during that whole time it's all potentially open to do stuff. And so this is where like boundaries—

Josh: yelling. Yeah, yo, bro. We're over here. Yeah, cheque out this chick. I fucking get Facebook, Facebook dub, uh, you might like to add this friend, some chick fucking from the Gold Coast.

Tommy: Fuck off. Why? Who is it? Do you know them?

Josh: No idea, but it just sends me random people. You might know this bloke. One person I did know and I was like, don't want to add them.

Tommy: I haven't logged into Facebook in a long time.

Josh: Yeah, bro, you're missing out. You're not.

Tommy: Uh, there's, um, on, uh Facebook now you can play podcasts through, um, Spotify's got a like an integration thing with Facebook so people can play podcasts straight in the feed, which is interesting.

Josh: And you'll find that over there, he's pointing like a real—

Tommy: yeah, uh, enjoy the rest of your day, guys. If you've got any thoughts, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. We appreciate your emails. Otherwise, have a great rest of your Tuesday.

Josh: See you guys.