Guilty

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show. I'm Josh Janson.

Tommy: I'm Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's episode 85, TJ.

Tommy: You're excited because you got chocolate in your hand.

Josh: Well, to give people context, uh, this is coming out Monday, but, uh, we're pre-recording, something we don't do that often.

Tommy: It's, it's more of a safety precaution because I mean, actually, I'm not even going bush, I'm going desert. Yeah, I'm, I'm flying from Melbourne to Brisbane, which is like 2 hours itself.

Josh: Brisbane is not desert.

Tommy: No, but I gotta get on a little plane and fly like 2 and a half hours, 1,500 kilometres I think it is, to a place called Longreach, which is big fucking Longreach, isn't it?

Josh: 100— what, 1,500?

Tommy: It's a fucking long way away. And supposedly it's where Qantas was founded.

Josh: Yeah, interesting, because this is what the— so your Filming a project for a guy who happens to have a massive farm. Yeah, what does he actually farm?

Tommy: His family have been farming, mate. Sorry, I forgot to mention, I have to drive 2 hours once I get into Longreach, fuck, to this ranch.

Josh: Surely the plane can just like drop you off, you think, at that point. So, so you're doing a video project through your business, Frisbee and Co. Mate, I love this.

Tommy: I love connecting with people and making movies and hearing stories. I found out about this 2 days ago from today, and flights got booked, and I'm flying out Monday.

Josh: What is the— is there any specific rush, or you're just like, let's just act on it?

Tommy: Well, uh, I kind of just gave them some dates. I pushed for like a bit further with, you know, like, uh, a following week after, but I was like, I'm actually free from Monday, right? And I've got to shoot back in Melbourne on Friday, so fuck it, let's do it.

Josh: You're gonna be exhausted, but it's gonna be amazing.

Tommy: It's, yeah, and so anyway, we tested out today. I gave him a call, Rupert his name is, for the farmer. Well, he's not even a farmer.

Josh: He's just like, he's from a farming family.

Tommy: Farming family, lives in Sydney.

Josh: He lives on a farm. Oh, he doesn't even fucking live on a farm.

Tommy: No, no, no, no, so the storey that we're telling is about where he grew up. And from what I know about it, He, for 12 years of his life, did primary school over radio.

Josh: Yeah, that's sick.

Tommy: How cool is that?

Josh: Do they still do that? Do we know? You can find out.

Tommy: Probably not. Well, maybe with the lack of internet that we had when I tested with Rupert today. So I tested Skype with him and it was a fucking struggle. He said they've got NBN satellite. So it's not, it's not, it's like probably goes to a town where it can get to and then they satellite the internet in.

Josh: So what was the, could you even connect at all with Skype?

Tommy: Yeah, we connected, feels very weak. So point being, um, we're going to try and do the daily talk show live from Mutitjumburra, I think it's called, or I've probably butchered that, which is the town where he—

Josh: So Longreach is where you go first?

Tommy: Longreach is where the airport is. Okay, the 2-hour drive is Mutitjumburra, I think. I'll get it right by the time I get back.

Josh: Um, this is such a fun project, man.

Tommy: It's so good.

Josh: This is why we do— this is why I do what I do, which is like—

Tommy: we're the same person, mate. We're the same person. Just talk for me, all right?

Josh: You fucking Well, we travel, uh, like we want to be able to travel, tell stories, meet interesting people, have an excuse to ask questions. Yeah, be like, oh mate, yeah, we need a shot of you on the tractor, just to fucking get him on the tractor.

Tommy: 100%. I'm gonna be like, I need to get up in that light plane or that helicopter.

Josh: Sick.

Tommy: Fuck, we need to go, you know. He was telling me, I spoke to him on the phone and he's like, dude, I'm up on the water silo because there's better 4G up here. So, I just love that picture. Like, that's such a, you know, I'm picturing like just cool silhouette, cool silhouette, red sun going down the blue sky, just getting electrified by the low light.

Josh: Have you got enough hard drives and stuff? What are you doing?

Tommy: I'm only going to take— Oh, maybe I should take 2.

Josh: You can borrow one of mine if you want, because I'd say you fucking have at least backup every single, like, I feel like this is the type of project where just go above and beyond in regards to backing up.

Tommy: Yeah, data.

Josh: I've got heaps of like those when I transition to the big RAID drive. I have so many of those smaller hard drives which I'm not using, so maybe you could use them. But, um, you were just talking—

Tommy: there's one thing, sorry, there's one feeling, um, around this travel stuff, like, and I kind of— because it's all kind of really happened fast booking these flights and getting out of here. I don't— I'm not just— I can't just be a selfish fucking single dude anymore.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Tommy: And I had this fucking overwhelming feeling of guilt. I think it was— it felt like guilt. And I— and it was about leaving Amy with Bodhi to have to take him to daycare every morning, get herself to work, and then get him—

Josh: because you guys like obviously rely on each other heavily to get all those things done.

Tommy: Got it, dude. Team effort.

Josh: So you wake up— what is a typical day for you?

Tommy: Yeah, I wake up and Bodhi's crying.

Josh: It's like 6 AM probably.

Tommy: Yeah, so it depends on— he's funny, sometimes he sleeps and then wakes up really happy, but usually if he hasn't had enough sleep, he's just a bit sooky, and then he wants us to go in and get him. And so I go and grab him and get him ready, and I take Amy and Bodhi to daycare. Actually, I take Amy to daycare. I take—

Josh: you're both in the car, and so what time has he got to be at daycare?

Tommy: Is it like work? Do you He could be there from 7.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: And so we get him there maybe 7:30.

Josh: 6:55 we arrive, we wait out.

Tommy: We have got there early once. I felt, yeah, I felt like an asshole.

Josh: So 7:30 is normally the jam. How many kids are normal? How many kids in total are there throughout the whole day?

Tommy: Oh man, there's, I think down in his area, 'cause he's up into, you know, up until 1.5 I think it is. There's like probably 10 or 11 kids, I think.

Josh: Per square metre, sort of.

Tommy: No, that's a deal, dude. You can only have a certain amount of kids per square metre.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's a daycare thing.

Josh: Yeah, that makes sense.

Tommy: And I know that because I worked, I made a video for a daycare centre.

Josh: Oh, that's right.

Tommy: And so, yeah.

Josh: Make sure we get the square metreage right.

Tommy: Drop him off, take Amy to work. I go into work.

Josh: Amy's got to start work at what time?

Tommy: She starts at 8:30. I start whenever I want.

Josh: So, you'll probably drop her off sometimes at 8 o'clock. Sometimes quarter to 8, maybe 8:25.

Tommy: Nah, never, never late. She gets in early.

Josh: Okay, she's—

Tommy: they're getting her money's worth with her.

Josh: Yeah. Um, does she stuff her— has she— well, not stuff around, but has she got a bit of a routine where she'll make herself some toast or do all that sort of thing?

Tommy: They've got a coffee machine at her business, like a legit Italian style fucking 4 things that you can, you know. Oh, crazy. They make about 100. They go through 10 kilos of coffee a week. Like, this is like a cafe. There's 100 employees and they make it.

Josh: I feel like getting 100 employees all looking after a coffee machine would be a clusterfuck. It'd be breaking down all the time.

Tommy: Well, broke down the other day and she said everyone freaked.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it— because everyone's saving. So, you know, people— some people are having 3, 4 coffees a day. They're cafe coffee, so that's a $4 coffee. You know, so you're having $12.

Josh: Yeah, worth of coffee.

Tommy: $16 worth of coffee a day.

Josh: And so they're espresso, like what do they do? They just like long blacks, they could do lattes if they wanted.

Tommy: I can do it.

Josh: All the frothing. Have you been in there? Have you spent?

Tommy: Yeah. So we go out, 'cause I drop Bodhi off early and we go upstairs and she makes me coffee sometimes.

Josh: She keeps getting full. It's like when Bri used to work at Suzanne Group and she would get the bananas and on a Friday she would look at the fruit and like, well, this is gonna go to waste, so I might just take Take a few bananas home.

Tommy: Amy does the fruit order.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, um, and yeah, there's fuckloads of fruit in those businesses. Yeah, I remember wastage in businesses. Yeah, it's, um, mate, give that shit away. So yeah, I drop them off and then I head into work, and then I pick him up— pick Amy up at 5:00— 5:00, sorry, I pick Amy up at 5:30, pick up Bodhi, and we go home.

Josh: What happens if you got— so the other day when we were doing filming for the covering the federal budget, you had to be at my place at 5:00. What do you do? What did you do in that case?

Tommy: Amy has to pick up Bodhi and take him on the tram and go home.

Josh: So, she walks?

Tommy: Walks to the tram stop, walks to Bodhi's daycare, which is 500 metres from her work, gets Bodhi and goes onto the tram and then goes, you know, gets to Luna Park in St Kilda and then walks home.

Josh: Oh, that'd be fun though.

Tommy: But if it's fucked up weather at the moment.

Josh: So, does she have to take a pram? That's the annoying bit.

Tommy: Sometimes a pram, a little, uh, this thing, you know, the thing you wore. Yeah, you wore the body on the front of you.

Josh: What was that video called?

Tommy: Um, Bodhi's Son Away, My Son's New Father for a Day, My Son's New Dad for a Day, on my YouTube channel. But I felt this guilt of, you know, having to put this on Amy because it's the first time I've gone away for more than 2 days or 1 night, you know, 2 days, 1 night.

Josh: So you actually, you accepted the job and then said, okay, fuck, now I've got to have the conversation.

Tommy: I think you go through, I've got a filter. Is this— and, and I said to you at the start of this year, my, my word, or my— what is it?

Josh: What you told me about one word of the year, which is Jason Fox, Dr. Jason Fox, uh, who's a friend of mine. We're going to have him on the podcast.

Tommy: Looking forward to that.

Josh: Organizational psychologist, real fucking interesting dude. But anyway, So he's, yeah, he talks about having a word which is sort of encompasses your year and your focus. What was your word?

Tommy: I broke the rules, two words. Family first.

Josh: Okay, well that's also a very conservative political party. So let's just say family.

Tommy: Okay, family.

Josh: Family first, I think that I would—

Tommy: I wanted the first in there because I want it to be the first consideration when making a decision. And that is my family. What—

Josh: And the Daily Talk Show has become family as well.

Tommy: Okay, yeah.

Josh: I extend the family. Yeah, they're like family. People at the pub, mate, they're like fucking family.

Tommy: Well, they are. I mean, yeah. And so this is— so I thought about that and I thought, is this— it's a financially good decision for me to do it?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, there is a sacrifice of not being there.

Josh: And psychologically, I think it's good for you too as well.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's like stretching you creatively because I think when you put your family first Sometimes that means putting, uh, your ambition first for a short period of time to be able to, um, to help the family financially, but also just to like move forward and doing stuff.

Tommy: Yeah. And I, and I kind of grappled with the concept, um, for a moment where of this sort of guilt and then, you know, rationalising it with, you know, the family first thing and it being a good decision. But then I was thinking about like people who, uh, and, you know, without judging them, are away on business a lot.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And have young families. I was thinking, you know, is this feeling getting in the way of potential success? Like, I can't let it get the better of me, but I, but I, yeah, I was just, I just look at, like, if you'd get on a flight from Melbourne at 6 AM on a weekday.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And you look at the people, you know, half of them coming back at 6:00 PM that night. It's a very like business-driven, career-driven person. And some of them probably have families. And that's a decision that they're making, whether they've consciously made the decision to, you know, not be with their family or they've thought about it as much as I have. Maybe they don't. But I, and I think about it's important for me to be a good dad. And that's one of those elements.

Josh: Well, I mean, and I think that, you know, people see fatherhood in different ways and what being a good dad means. Some people, because of their upbringing, thinks that being a good dad is being at work all the time and working hard and providing for the family. I think that that's probably archaic and something that's shifting because, um, you know, there's emotional sustenance and being there for your kids and and also, um, this shift in the idea that, um, you know, that the mum should be doing all of this work and all that sort of thing. Well, I mean, was that, you know, what's your, what's your view? I feel like you always surprise me with your views because sometimes you can be quite, uh, liberal and open and sort of, you know, but then you can also have your little conservative you know, streaks here and there. What is the take on, um, you know, providing for family and things like that?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, what I've been kind of going through, some feelings of, you know, not being able to provide. Like, that's a fucking feeling— like, that's an overwhelming feeling if you were like, fuck, we're low on money.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And like, we've— I've got, you know, I'm— I've been putting in sacrifices and, you know, taking a hit financially because I'm trying this bigger thing. But it is so fucking demoralising feeling like you can't support.

Josh: Westpac don't consider how many podcast episodes you've done when it comes to the bank balance, unfortunately.

Tommy: I know, but you know, you and I both playing in this space where it's like the payoff is big. Yeah, but we don't quite know the payoff just yet or how we're going to get it.

Josh: And it's even, I think, like relatively speaking You know, like it's not big, it's not the huge, we're not gonna be billionaires, we might not even be millionaires, but I think that the payoff is big in regards to fulfillment, happiness, and development. And then hopefully that also, so, you know, I think that we can, there's a financial viability to eventually get to, which I think we'll be able to do.

Tommy: And so, you know, I want to avoid that feeling of not being able to provide.

Josh: So, but do you think that potentially, going into being a parent? What was your view on your role versus Amy's role?

Tommy: Yeah, well, if you were to say, is one more career-driven than the other, whatever that means, whatever you think it means, I probably am more career-driven. Yeah, a clear picture of, uh, not even that clear, but I'm just— I found my thing. Um, maybe Amy's not so much like— she's got some things that she's heading towards and she's becoming more clear about this stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, and maybe it's like, well, you know, I can— I felt like, and it's probably the wrong thing to do, slip into like, well, I'm providing here. Yeah.

Josh: Which is, I guess you sort of slip into— slipping into roles can be easy because it's saying, okay, well, just like a workplace, it's not like you know, there's a, there's a nice feeling of, okay, we're all, we all are sort of leading this, we're all a part of it, we're all helping making decisions. But, you know, there's, I guess there is also the benefit of having roles and saying, okay, you're looking after this, this, this, and this.

Tommy: And man, it's, um, I could, I can see the danger of having it one too far one way. Yeah, I'm sure there's relationships out there where the guy won't let the not want let, but like wants to be the main provider. And not that he's saying don't fucking work, but you can see the power in— and I can, I see the danger in me going, well, I'm the provider here, Amy, you're not fucking pulling your weight. Yeah, because that's an easy out, right? That's an easy fucking grab at power. Amy's— she's working, she's fucking earning close to what I am. Yeah, close to what I'm paying myself for my own business.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so she's totally, you know, and we're like, we're switching our relationship into this real team because we have to.

Josh: And it's a partnership thing that we spoke about, really. And it's a, I think that maybe that is the decision that maybe sometimes is overlooked. Like if you are sort of thinking about these things in a bigger picture sense, Like I even think about if Bri and I have kids, we're not planning on having kids. And one of the reasons is, is because it's like we're both being fulfilled right now within our roles and within our work and all that sort of thing. If that was something that Bri was like, this is something that I'm really keen on and this is where I'm gonna find fulfillment, then yeah, then naturally maybe, or maybe that comes from the man, I think it's, I think it's hard maybe with, what do you call it? Like just how it all works. Like the mum is giving birth, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: She's the one that's going to be feeding the baby. So, I wonder how that would go the other way around, whether, where, you know, stay-at-home dads, it's becoming a much more sort of common thing, but there still is the fucking delivery of the thing. Yeah, yeah. It's like there's still the 9 months. Beforehand, there's still all of that sort of stuff.

Tommy: Yeah, it's full on. If I had the money, and I know it's such an easy thing to say, oh, if we had the money, if I had the money, I would spend a lot of time with Bodhi.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I would incorporate what I like to do and make videos and films and incorporate that into our existence. Like, I don't think I would push as hard on generating business as I would on focusing on being, you know, with my best friends. It's like, you know, travelling and incorporating all these things. And I know that's just, that's blue sky thinking of, if we walked into money, I'd leave and go travelling for a year.

Josh: I think it's worth asking those questions still. Yeah. And then seeing how you can sort of put it into existence. Like even the thought of us working together, it would be great to like, the vision that I even have with what that would potentially look like is the idea that we're both joint custody of Bodhi. Exactly. I look after Bodhi most, I'm the stay-at-home, no, but I think that it's almost like I like the idea of building an environment that would enable you to be able to do that as well. So it's not like a partnership where it's like fucking grinding all the time, but actually having two people within a business so that then it takes off some of that pressure. Yeah, it's interesting. I think like, I think it's so complex, the whole kid thing.

Tommy: But I just hope that the people that are working and, you know, from the outset, um, not spending much time with their family, I just hope that they've got their priorities right as far as knowing that their priority is work and that's actually the thing that's fulfilling the most and it not being the family.

Josh: I think that there's, it's a two-pronged thing. If you bring someone in to the world, you're no longer thinking about your fulfillment. It's, I think, your responsibility to think of the fulfilment of your children as well, right? And your family as a whole. So it's like, um, you need to think about Amy's fulfillment, Bodhi's fulfillment. Amy needs to think about your— like, it's this real fine balance.

Tommy: Any relationship is like considering someone else. Yeah, it's huge. It's a huge thing to think outside of yourself because it's so simple. Yes, and it's fucking common. And what is it like? It's nature to think about yourself first because you're in your own head.

Josh: It's your own world.

Tommy: It's very, very easy.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I think that that's, um, yeah, definitely being in a long-term relationship like Bray and I, like, we have built that. It's always a joint decision of, okay, what are we both wanting, and then, you know, coming to a compromise that makes sense. And what are we aligned with? What are we— and I think the awesome thing is, I think we're both better people because of it, because we're able to, um, understand. Like, I think that everything becomes up for question, which I think is a powerful thing. So when you're making these choices, you have to be thoughtful. You have to be mindful. I think like that mindfulness. So you're clearly being mindful, saying yes to this job, doing all the, you know, working it all out in your head. What was Amy's vibe on it when you told her?

Tommy: Awesome.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I think it's come from a place of, I think she knows that I'm thinking that stuff.

Josh: Yeah. Well, you're being the filter so she doesn't have to.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah, and so it's all good. I'm gonna have a great time.

Josh: Yeah, it's gonna be, you know, do you think you'll, you know, what's the hardest part of it do you think for you?

Tommy: Oh, I didn't say anything just hard. I don't know. Yeah, it's my element, immersive curiosity, you know, storytelling.

Josh: What about from a family point of view?

Tommy: Yeah, I'm gonna fucking miss the little man and Amy. And I haven't experienced that yet.

Josh: Might be a good break too. People talk about that, like just having that reset. You might come back with a bunch of energy and then be able to take over a little bit more than you normally would to give Amy that.

Tommy: Well, it gives you a sense of, you know, what's the thing? You take things for granted. Even like, say if I can't get reception or whatever, it's like, fuck, man, that's so foreign to me. Amy and I constantly on text and Me and Bodhi, you know, chat on the cell phone. No, no, no, but Bodhi's got an app. No, he's got an app.

Josh: He's developed a day care, has an app that posts photos of him. Yeah.

Tommy: And so you can just stay up to date with him. What's he—

Josh: can I get onto it?

Tommy: I could get you onto it. You just need to— I need to invite you. It's just a family member that you invite.

Josh: That'd be great. Is any of you— is, uh, like your parents or anything?

Tommy: No, I don't think we have. Man, I hadn't even, I don't even know, Amy just screenshots it all now and sends it to me.

Josh: Oh really, you don't even get it? Well, I would love to see it.

Tommy: I get the screenshot.

Josh: That'd be great. Maybe I could pick him up one day next week.

Tommy: Yes, mate, you can help Amy out. All right, I'm, fuck, I wanna eat this.

Josh: Yeah, so I, it sounded like we'd create an edit there, that's how abrupt you were, but no, this is the same show.

Tommy: No, it was what I mentioned at the start, you've got chocolate. You've still got chocolate in your hand.

Josh: I've still got chocolate in my hand. So, basically, obviously our preferred chocolate of choice here on the Daily Talk Show is Hey Tiger, which you can get at heytiger.com.au. Amazing chocolate.

Tommy: Unofficial sponsor.

Josh: Unofficial sponsor, not artificial sponsor, unofficial sponsor. And they, yeah, Hey Tiger is great because for one, it's founded by a good friend of mine, Sayan Taeed, Bree works there, and they, um, all of the money, all the profit goes to supporting farmers in West Africa, basically, where I think something like 60% of the world's cacao comes from. So anyway, uh, change of pace from Hey Tiger to your sort of classic Cadbury Dairy Milk.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I have slave-driven chocolate.

Josh: No, no, the, the, uh, it actually has a little, uh, thing which says, uh, Is it cacao or cocoa? I always get confused when to say cacao, when to say cocoa.

Tommy: Where are you, Bondi or fucking the Burbs?

Josh: There is a difference, there's a difference. But anyway, they've brought out heaps of different flavours lately in the family blocks. So they've taken what would normally be the smaller chocolate, you know, that you would just get in a bar form, and they've turned it into a full family block. You would have seen they did crunchy years ago and they've come back with that. Anyway, you're really, really into chocolate, aren't you? The one that— well, to be clear, the chocolate that I normally eat is sort of your 85%.

Tommy: That's true, but when we walked into the shops before, when I saw—

Josh: well, because I was looking out for this. So, this is Dairy Milk. So, this is 180 grammes family block Dairy Milk packed with Moro. Yum! Dairy Milk chocolate with choc malt flavoured crème, crème, crème, and smooth flowing caramel. So, anyway, Mauro, I think it's from New Zealand, maybe. I think that's a New Zealand thing.

Tommy: Well, what's the equi— Like what's something— It's like a Mars bar.

Josh: Yeah, it's basically like a Mars bar, but it's in the favourites, Cadbury favourites, right? The little ones. But I got this and I am eating it on the— We're going to eat it in a couple of minutes. But the reason that I got it and thought that it was enough interest in eating it on the podcast was because As a kid, I actually shoved the morro up your ass. I didn't. That is a reference that most people won't get, but if you listen back to early episodes, you'll love it. So much intrigue with no information. I know, but the— no, so, um, morro, you could only ever get in favorites, the small morro.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And when I was 11 years old, I think 10 or 11, I actually, uh, I found out that you could get full-size, king-size Moro bars from New Zealand. And my dad's friend was going to New Zealand.

Tommy: Perfect.

Josh: And he bought back an esky full of king-size Moros. It was to the point where I had my huge like undie drawer at home, took all the undies out and that became my Moro bar drawer and I lined them with king-size Moros.

Tommy: Fuck, who were you, young Pablo Escobar?

Josh: Yeah, I just—

Tommy: Lacing it like—

Josh: It was just like, and they had so much weight to them, I would have one a day. And anyway, so this is very exciting. I saw this Moro chocolate family, block of chocolate and they—

Tommy: And you turned into that kid that fucking lines his drawers with it.

Josh: No, but I—

Tommy: Because you squealed.

Josh: When I, when I, because the thing is I saw it maybe a couple of weeks ago and I didn't get it.

Tommy: Why?

Josh: Because I was trying, I'm like, I don't really eat this sort of chocolate anymore. I haven't had it in a really long time.

Tommy: But anyway, I'll tell you what, there's no excuse like having one.

Josh: Bit of nostalgia.

Tommy: That you've got a podcast and we need to try some fucking Chocolate.

Josh: Yeah, well, so I was like, I'm trying to do two things at once, guys. I'm trying to open it.

Tommy: Um, interesting thing, like your dad's mate getting a fucking whole esky full. There's no chance I would bring back a bunch of garbage for my son's— for my, for my mate's son. I was like, maybe one.

Josh: Actually, it doesn't smell very good. I was gonna smell it. Tell me what you think it smells like. We'll say it on the count of 3. Ready? 1, 2, 3. Aftershave.

Tommy: Dog treats.

Josh: You said aftershave, I said dog treats.

Tommy: Yeah, I know the dog treat. I know exactly what you mean. It's almost a bit Powell-esque. I think, you know, the favorites, I always say when there's favourites going around—

Josh: Which one's your favourite favorite?

Tommy: No, it's not even that. It's what kind of a person are you? And you can see by the chocolate you get out of those favorites. And I think if you're a Moro guy, yeah, you're a bit fucking weird.

Josh: I fucking love— here we go. So we're both trying it. It's good.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, um, it's just full fatties chocolate. Yeah, and I love it.

Josh: So sugary.

Tommy: You can always taste the sugar in the Was this like caramel in there?

Josh: Contains milk chocolate 49%, choc malt flavoured cream.

Tommy: You sound like a heroin addict.

Josh: Caramel 17%. Ingredients. So here, I'll read you the top 10 ingredients.

Tommy: Oh no, this is the worst.

Josh: Full cream milk, sugar, milk solids, vegetable fat, cacao mass, cacao butter, glucose syrup, sweetened condensed milk.

Tommy: Oh my God.

Josh: Golden syrup, uh, invert sugar, emulsifiers, salt, acidity regulator, flavors. Milk chocolate contains cacao solids, 27%.

Tommy: Jesus, it is so sugary. Every one of those ingredients listed, excluding sugar, those ingredients contain sugar within that.

Josh: Oh, they're all just 10 ways to say sugar, isn't it?

Tommy: That's the episode name.

Josh: Yeah, it's got a good ring to it, doesn't it?

Tommy: 10 ways to say sugar.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show, everyone. And because this is pre-recorded, we won't have, uh, emails, but, uh, please, uh, please send them to us, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. And you know what, one thing that you can do that would really help is in iTunes or in iOS if you've got an iPhone, if you go onto the podcast app, the official podcast app, if you listen on there or even if you don't, you can go to The Daily Talk Show and you can leave a review and those reviews help us get seen by other people who might listen.

Tommy: Help push it up.

Josh: Exactly. It's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. I hope you have a great Monday. Yeah. And if you've tried The Morrow, why don't you Tell us what you think. Maybe, um, we're trying to do more Instagram shit as well. We're slowly, slowly getting there, and we might have another sponsor on the way if you've, if you've been following that too. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.