#057 – Sending emails with cut-through/
- April 4, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Wednesday April 4 (Ep 57) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett. –
A practical episode on marketing, business and realising that no one cares.
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
Josh’s YouTube Channel – http://youtube.com/joshjanssen
Tommy’s YouTube Channel – http://youtube.com/tommyjackett
So daily talk
show everyone yeah 57. Yes live from Tommy jackets office here in Collingwood. Yeah
it should say on the time I think yeah we got some nifty fucking equipment
going on I don't know but you got a response from old made the the email
oh this is closing the loop essential to close the loop This is the fourth time we've done this yesterday I talked about a blogger named Michael who emailed me Am I a weed can like I can bring these things to the table is it made or I mean I get a lot of these emails and just ignore them
okay so the you your level of agitation for things that happened in general life is high
I think I'm always looking for these things
yeah and we're finding always finding a looking for a fight that will be your main what it is looking for a story yeah
so Michael email me is one of those cold call eight emails Hi, tell me is just wondering if a business person in the media Coaching Institute spice you'd be interested in finding out how to leverage websites for success. very generic first email followed up with another one which was basically like did you say Mother email but the weird thing about this was that at the bottom of those emails there's a little fucking unsubscribe link which would mean I would have subscribed yet but I've seen I've seen this before right it's marketing people they get your name from somewhere then they put the unsubscribe and they almost think they're doing a service because like you don't want to receive those emails I'm giving you the option to get rid of them and so I wrote to him a bit not sure he got my email but I certainly didn't subscribe understand you are hustling but in my eyes this cold call styles a bit gross. What I'm curious about though is if this approach actually works, so that was where we left up yesterday and that's when I sent an email I got it I got one back it's
it's interesting because he's a real human
he's not a robot wasn't an autoresponder. Thanks for you right now. Tommy. I'm out of office
you missed it might as you one chance anyway, Michael has responded hi Tommy. Firstly, apologies for the intrusive email initially when I received these types of emails I was the same although recently last year I've been responding to people and finding there are some great people and products out there at this point directly he's fucking This is a template
man No I don't think there would be enough people fighting back
okay so he's saying I'm fucking tech skewer. My business is at a stage where it's ready to scale I'm really passionate about what we do and really clear on what we target essentially we are targeting great brands that are already established tricks he said my thanks to the mo he's another so
established and ready to take that next level. I have a guy in India
does Google so can I just say this is like the guy when you say how are you and they don't just say good the garden I fucking this morning. You've misinterpreted my How are you? I really just wanted you to say good and first move on so he's gone Oh so he's somehow you've you've gone from us asking does this work too? Well I've got I've got a guy in India
gone yeah thanks for asking about my childhood It all started he says I've got to go in India who searches on my ideal clients being blogs like yours first mistake I don't actually have a blog
yeah Michael I've got a YouTube channel You're a fucking sack yeah virtual assistant and yes I then
get that list and do a review then construct and send the emails is really fucking broken this down what's really interesting is the type of approach sorry it was really interesting this type of approach really works I get it percent open rate and about a 20% response rate out of 20% I get one in 20 height emails 10 out of 20 not interested emails and five I'll keep you details on file and about for phone chats messages okay I respect him for breaking down where where it all goes
right i mean i don't think i open rate is that exciting because it's like if you've got good yet saying he's got good quality emails
that it's marketing speak right if you're not into that stuff is like the email marketing space that people looking for
the open rates like you talk about it from a newsletter point of view but like you fucking email someone yeah in a in a way that's not meant to look like in you know EDM or whatever you're meant to look like an email or most people open it so I don't I'm not that impressed by the open range but the response What did he say he's response rate was his response rate 20%
response rate and ready to say what I get one in 20 height a mouse 10 out of 1010 out of 20 interested five Okay, data has on file and for phone chats with a lawyers so what does he actually do? I still don't know but he got personal at the end here. Anyway, I'm really sorry. Again if you're interested for the intrusive email and good luck with your blog
he hasn't taken a second to look at what I do. PS I'm heading to Lauren tomorrow for a couple of days noticed on your Insta you were there a few days ago cheese
all right so is is taking the time to look
back you know what you need right back one sentence
it's not a fucking blog full
but PS great burger breakfast place. Just
should I do that? It's not I don't think you need to meet him with aggression. I am that is your default. Thanks, mate. Indian guy has got it wrong. I don't have a blog.
But great pizza at a place called pizza. Pizza. In law of high key
as a character is if I was to break down your character you want is antagonistic. the right word. Say The thing is, I don't really give a shit about this is the thing you don't you don't care. But think about how you come across all for content. Yeah, but you it's almost for all for content in the sense of you like to
I'm totally emotionally removed from this blog and what he's doing if he was like other like he's looking at something that anyone can access my Instagram at Tommy jacket.
And so I don't really care there. But I still think in this day and age that email marketing does not is if it's gross. I don't know what business what business is that good for our business? No, but I think it's I think it's in the tone.
Yeah, I think that if you you could do that. If he took off the unsubscribe and spent an extra five minutes I couldn't go an email from someone today who are actually right back to an end get and have a meeting with a
filmmaker white said nine well wishes sort of come from. But this is what this is what she said. So I recommend probably one in 100 emails that I get of these types actually have cut through and I'll meet with them and will deconstruct why it's good.
I'll bleep out the fact that I just I want to Lisa Lisa. No, but that wishes worked. I'll just make stuff up. Hey, Josh. I thought I'd reach so first of all, she sent this to Hello at full stack films. And she started with Hello Josh, which I respect the fact Oh, hi, Josh. Yes. Hey, Josh thought had reached out to because I'd love to work with you at full stack films. I really enjoyed the color grading and introduction in goodbye Philippines. And the story behind Christian health, social media life. I also love how different all your films are, each with their own style. I love shooting documentary films to like this one, which was shown at a film festival earlier this year. My specialties are and shooting and editing video from start to finish getting real people and telling their story in the most honest way possible. I also produce a range of end to end commercial videos, as well as winning films and photography.
You know, she's currently finishing a job and as a video producer, and she's learning how to tell better stories and narratives instruction during that time. She's a she said, I know you're not advertising for any hires right now. But when you are I'd love to catch up happy to travel and come to your studio and calling would love to chat That's nice. She's done a bit of research knows what you do. Yeah. Which is like fucking like breaking it down saying this is like the amount of people I get words like hey, full stack films attached is my CV, or they have a thing now there is a thankful which story that they need to tell. They need to connect with me in some way. And so many of them will be like, Hey, I'm just moving to Melbourne from the UK after spending blah, blah, blah. So the problem is, they're putting their problem first, most people will say, I need a job because of this. And what they're doing is they're hoping that I empathize a map. And now for whatever you want to call it. So that I will then give them a job which a better approach is I have this skill, or these are the types of videos that you make. I've synthesize what you do. And this is how I can help you and this and then thirdly, this is why I'm in the position that I'm in right now. So I'm, I've come from here. And this is why I'm. So what's lead with lead with contextualizing the person that you're contacting. So you want to stand them and you you're showing that you've done some research connection, that's an instant connection, followed by value prop, this is the value that I'm going to bring to you. And thirdly, why and then final one is a non obligatory fucking call to action, which is high when you have I know that you're not looking for people at the moment. So she's done that fucking research, the amount of people that treat it as if I've got a career section on my site, and I'm asking for this, which is fine. I like getting them in backing, you know, but 90% I've only ever met with one other person who's now an editor that I use regularly. GEORGE And he his whole thing was, I like the stuff you're doing it Southern cross eyed stereo when you're working with angels and
he'd listened to Josh speaking my own podcast listen to like the ryan Shelton episode. So
yeah, it's what do you think it is? These people that don't have that naturally or they haven't been taught that you think it's because they haven't been taught it? I don't know if because definitely, Jules has always been what's laid with the value like, ask what you can do even bring something like a baby been created a teaser video and lead with that, hey, I created this piece of content would love to see how I can help you with the skills I've got. So it's like, Fuck, this person's already created something. It's like, how do you go above and beyond? I've always thought like, resumes. Yeah, I can't stand out. How can you stand out really, unless you've want to fucking awesome.
And that was like, the thing that I loved about leaving a you know, a full time job as an employee is no longer the longer people could put me on some sort of hierarchy of where I stood. So I was realized I was in an organization This is years ago, before in Bartow, not something where I was like, looking up above me and saying, who were in positions that are were managers and saying it exact I was like, actually, I don't want that life. And the thing is that when you're a digital content producer, or whatever, if someone says, I'm a digital content producer for a radio station, go Okay, your
your pay range is at the junior level about 55 k at the potentially it also Okay, that's where so we started by put them in box and we say, Okay, this is what your salary is going to be.
And I just don't like that shit. I like being able to
in what why I like
confusing them in the way where it's like, they don't know where to place me. They can't put me in a box. They can't say okay, this is I think as soon as you can be have a label put on you. It's like the difference between going into target well, so we're looking for we're looking at this artwork here, right. So you you're in a explain what sort of space we're in.
It's a office building that industrial of sorts, and it's a gallery it Yeah, so next door is a big Art Gallery called backwoods gallery. And in my studio, there's some big walls and if they fill that with big pieces of expensive out 10 grand a pop. And so the thing is, how do you know that's 10 grand a pop? I got told bit. How do you like, so I guess the thing is, I just told him, I really liked him. Not that I'd pay 10 grand. And I have spare 10 K to drop on art through things that wouldn't actually fit on my wall, you'll be you'll happily use it at your office profit. But the
that's the thing, right? So you go to Target and you're like, okay, because I'm looking at say this, this piece here
being Scala big animal scale, no offense to the artists at all. But if you made it sort of one 10th of the size, yeah,
in put it in target, I would say Okay, that was probably like 35 to 60 bucks, right? So this and the reason is, is because I can target has, like they've created the system. And that's not what you bought, you're not buying this piece, because there's 14 other ones that in a stack and you just going to pull them out. So that is that's also part of it is a it's like when you're part of a system, what systems are really good at ease commodity thing. So it's being able to say, we know how much these things cost. So you're saying you're very replaceable, as a content producer, a writer, as a digital content producer, you are like the artwork, it's at Target. Whereas if you are a freelancer, and you're not. So for instance, things like putting up your right, so things like that you don't need you don't need a property rights of how much work as soon as you put up the right people will say, Okay, this is where you're at in your career. And but if you sell on value, if you say, Okay, this is the this is the type of work this is the value that I'm going to give. It depends what you want to do. Some people it's like, I have a nice seven s, and I've got the like, you're gone some sites and says, I use the meta bones about adapter. I have these lenses. And then you say, okay, they're 650 a day, or whatever it is. And that's fine when you're getting started to build that out. But I think there is power saying, you know, what, how much how much does michael moore How much does Louis Theroux? How much does I can literally not think of a direct Wes Anderson Spike Jonze back slightly, how much how much they cost an hour, they would not charge it out. It'd be project base and fucking expensive. And so the thing is, and I'm not saying that everyone needs to be that way, but just identifying that these things happen. And you can put yourself in a box. Oh, I'm very much into it. I don't
know. I think you'll love it. I don't know if you love it for the music side of it. What's it called? Fucking the Defiant Ones on Netflix? Watch it. You can just all about Dr. Dre and Jimmy IV. I've been Jimmy Iovine who basically spearheaded the Beats by Dre. acquisition by Apple. Yeah. So human human Dr. Dre with business partners. Jimmy is a music producer. Old School spring stain Nine Inch Nails like fucking sit Bono. YouTube. He produced some of the greatest albums is worth a fucking fortune even before we did the deal with Apple. Yeah, so it's all it's looking into Dr. Dre and Jimmy's. Korea's and it looks at everything to pack ice cube. But Jimmy said at one point. He's like the ultimate hustler like he works he works everyone and he's also very gifted but I think I got an email with an unsubscribe from him.
He's he's got a guy in India. Anyway, Jimmy was talking about how he got fired once and he thought I'm gonna go home now. And everyone's gonna be thinking he's like, pull your fucking head out of your ass. No one K's like UK.
Yeah. And so you make it make it up. It was I thought about that. Just know what I mean. You said no one gives a fuck I remember like that. Those words Stanley so hard. When I was 21 years old, and I was the assistant editor of a film and there was an old dude would wane in his late 70s and I was showing him a photo of me dressed up as Batman from the weekend I said le out 21 I've been doing the 365 day project where I took a photo of myself every single day Did you have a party on and you just you know I just I just had it for Batman so I took mask not for for this vision of you who pretty much Mom
Mom look at this
but I am a showed him his father My God. JOHN Look at this. He just turned around looked at me really honestly he's at Josh like good looking. really sort of exhausted I conversation for Josh. No one gives a fuck
and it's the best bit of advice. Good. I think if you go through this world, as I when you're writing when you're making a film, if you set the expectation that no one gives a fuck you want to put that fucking clip for longer than it needs to be. And the other thing you won't be married like it was so much so many of us are married to the things we make. So we get this shot. It's like fuck I got this. This sunsets shot that I got was like perfectly timed with bird coming into frame and this I can talk about my one of the 12 apostles with a kangaroo jumping out of mine yet no one gives a fuck tomato. But no but but really we need to question you know, these connections that we have with it today. translate to the audience it's classic when you leave a job and you think they might find someone who's good
resume like it's your ego talking and they always do I always feel the raw because that's what they need to do. Web guy Oscar
I was a web guy Oscar Oscar Oscar Gordon he was he replaced me faith angels us better he was he's gone to where is he now is he and bam for is in Canada he was back in Melbourne I see a private jet with Sophie Mark Yeah it's the way that fact that could
have been you Josh
more turbulence in the smaller planes i think but even looking at Oscar and how he approaches he's literally
doing exactly what we're saying which is just like he remember having conversations with him around like he's done the whole thing where he went to college jack did for money said hey I want a bunch more that okay I'm out and like being able to have that
fucking confidence you've got to play the game I know he's good applying the guy yeah so he can take the headache and the stress of these assholes not listening to him they actually don't know as good as he does yeah and and play it and it was you worked with him yeah yeah I'm good man i mean he's jewels lands cousin if you don't know and he's a super talented creative dude you know not mainly amazingly technical in terms of like your approach different level that like these content producer roles nowadays the like you know it's almost like suits the cowboy
boots This is that this is the thing to this about commodity pricing so if you if Oscar put together a show real and put a shy real against some young gun 20 years old a seven s cyber crime yet doing all that sort of stuff
day seven s kid probably would look like a more enticing opportunity. But what what's happening is with the democratization of gear, so gears getting really affordable, the democratization of education in the sense of you don't have to go to school for this anymore. We never fucking had to. But there's before there was a paywall, you'd go to lynda.com or something, you'd pay a subscription. But now or I remember being on
there was a, there was a site in like, the mid 2000s, early 2000s, where I would go for Premiere Pro tutorials. And like, fucking old, yeah, this is pre YouTube. But now with YouTube, there's so much education out there. So where is the value if if everyone's going to be able to afford a camera, everyone's going to be able to afford the training to be able to do you know, get the expose the footage in the right way. And make rd shots and shoot. If I was fucking shooting Slow Mo, you can't rely on your camera shooting slow. Mo has been your point of difference. So what is it? What do you what do you think it is?
I'm understanding it more now is the like, it's your belief in your value of
bring them on iPod. You
say the gorilla pod? Actually, Josh can double as both. Yeah, but I truly knowing your value. So working out what that is what you are bringing to it. Because it's not your camera. No, it's not your editing software. It's everything around. It's like brave and fine. me it's like charging more than I ever have. But I believe in my skills in what I can bring somebody Yeah, and everything around it. You know, it's Yeah, so value belief in your own value and results. Like I think that that's where you start. And then everything flows on for that quality of work, you know, result driven. Yeah,
and I think it's also working out what does that mean to the way you communicate. So for me, it means don't have a good list on your site. If you only if, if if the aim of the game isn't to be the person with all the gear don't have a list of gear, if the
if you don't want to be doing motion graphics don't have motion graphics on your work section of your site. It's hard to say no, sometimes you
look at my website
and have all that but I literally giving this advice to myself to write because you have to constantly when people you know, when you've built up a business business from scratch, there's this sense of say yes to everything. Just fucking do it. Just cash flow, cash flow, and it serves a good purpose. So
that when you have no fucking idea, it's like, hey, niche, or what the facts that mean, yeah, what niches are available. Yeah,
or get to work and then refined back and use ever refine, your skill set needs to be there too, right? You can't be you will be determined by the market. So if you're not providing something that is a value, you can't charge the larger amount of money,
you know, like, I think you'll feel it. I think in terms of you'll feel like you're actually pulling the wool over people's eyes if you're charging too much. And you really don't think you have value. Yeah, and finding the alignment in that is is
is one of the keys so if if sending cold emails isn't the answer what how, how to pay, but how should people approach marketing and sales?
The thing for me, I guess for my business, honest approach, honest conversations and it's like my videos I've been thinking about when pay quite a few people say, Hey, can you do what you did for you, for me, like the Obama stuff and the you know, other videos of mine that have gained attention and I have tried to think about what that doesn't mean just doing and I bought video for them. Yeah, what I've what I've summarized in my head as what they are saying, when they say Do what you did there for me create an honest piece of content that creates connection, it's relatable to the audience that I have. Or that me personally I have and it's fun and informative. So it's like they're the elements that I think they drawn to looking at my content relatable you know, fun be cheeky fucking informative, whatever. Yeah.
As cricket's creativity isn't it it's like it's the you not just selling a hotel isn't selling a bed is always going to be cheaper beds. You selling Phuket and experience so why would someone spend a bunch of money on a hotel? Why would you spend $600 a night versus $200 a night it's an experience type of thing. It's like a hotel isn't selling a place to sleep. It's selling an experience that you wouldn't get in any other place. So it's the view it's the service it's the relaxation it's like experience run so the
I guess the answer it it changes but I guess it's good to do I don't know how much that guy's email to me is in line with what he what he really does a who he really is because it you think about anyone using that tactic. If you think about that for yourself. And if you were to get that email not personalized, no real care how does that sit within this landscape of marketing it I don't think it does anymore. Something smells nice, like vanilla.
But the the thing that I think I think where it comes down to as well as you're judging him on his actions, rather than his intentions. And so I think that the misalignment may be in what his intention was versus what the action was or what it came out to look like. So he's thinking if the benchmark is doing some sort of funky looking newsletter and all that sort of thing, which would be not that personal. Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna treat this like a personal email. So do you say your name at the beginning? Yeah, so he said your name in the beginning so he's gone he's sort of half baked or maybe not even half baked he's just he's gone half authentic half marketing and I guess the question I have for you is if he didn't have the unsubscribe button if he didn't like what would it have picked out that later picked it up so what would it have taken for him to
for you to to feel like it was an authentic connection
I think what we what you your approach is hate seeing that you started a video production company yeah back in 2013 whatever it's like doesn't take
much time either I could literally like it'd be like Hey Tommy I just watched your own bike video that was hilarious I ended up in ended up viewing all of your other YouTube videos as being really cute to see Bodie appear appear in them yeah I have a kid as well blah blah blah yeah and then you'd say
my my my business does or what you could even say is I'm not even put the business stuff forward yet it could literally like the longer game is just fucking
saying something nice and leaving it at that yeah
i agree the long game it's a different approach though so I judged him on his actions yeah I know he's intentions are. He's probably got a business or family and he's trying to make ends meet. But I think if the first impression is an action that isn't that kosher? Yeah,
I think it'd be gross I think a bit of value so like an example would be
how would you feel about this you know, the guy came to you with the spelling mistake or whatever I What if
we never close that loop? No, he didn't write back to the Did you write to him? We call the
voicemail instead of
only may choose this was the episode Yeah, the No. But
if he'd said to Yeah, I tell me love what you're doing. Blah, blah, blah. I noticed your The, the speed of your site is pretty slow, which can affect search engine optimization. This is something that I look after. If you want me to spend five minutes on a Skype chat. I could talk you through how to fix it. Fuck yeah. Yeah. start slow. Yeah. So so that's the thing so it's probably the difference between say if we look at the one where there's the spelling mistake it's sort of it's a bit nit picky it wasn't really like what why abroad even brought that up in the podcast? I was intrigued
as much as I was triggered yes Michelle I couldn't spell the young kid and I had to go to reading class and I was fucking triggered by this guy say I couldn't spell and so fuck you Michelle Michelle love it love everybody I was like hi actually emailed me telling me about a mistake I appreciate a change that within three seconds of the email yeah just said that there was a mistake I was like what the fuck yeah why is he actually emailed that yeah isn't it a marketing so there is some interesting ones that I've been getting into LinkedIn you're you're affecting your three and a half thousand views on your video on YouTube check today my views to good isn't it I'm getting hates the views on LinkedIn. Some of the videos lots of interaction and engagement and people emailing How good is LinkedIn is really good for business. It's very clear creating content that's like talking around these subjects. We should post this video i'll post this episode in LinkedIn Trump talking about marketing approach but that's a place you see people I feel making all these mistakes oh yeah I think because it is it's the network it's the career or
business side of dating
and you basically it's an orgy and you know why your energy and
there's some people who just don't know the etiquette Yeah, so yeah
and it's a it's a scale thing as well right it's the more people you have on a platform and you also have these are we still exactly although still on the orgy think that there's a The fact is there's lots of different industries there's lots of different ways of working yeah but ya know So tell me about so what results have you received from LinkedIn I gotta catch up with a bank next week he's a fellow filmmaker and so if we relate this to the orgy thing he's
yeah he's message he's calling me he's coming to see my establishment perfect to see if he wants to Yeah, anyway, no, I thought to people like I think for the types of videos are posted. One was about Amy's candle business one was about my first footage from my first camera when I and seeing the progress of the news of you has your latest movie I had for over 4000
or so first 110 thousand? How many comments and stuff that's out
of the first one can no one had like over 60 comments? I think it's right. So you got 910 now? No, no negative because LinkedIn you're attaching their career and all that. So once I pay will play nice at super supportive, they will have very honest video. So if anyone is taking a stab, it's like it's at me personally. Yeah. Which is cool. Like, but I think they connect because they are honest, fun in somewhat relatable to the person and I haven't good them to that. Like, I haven't made them for that reason to post them on LinkedIn. Yeah, made them because they're all those things. So LinkedIn Tip of the Week, you're telling me about captions? What's our subtitle, subtitle caption? It's a must for videos on LinkedIn. What's this guy? Yes. It's hard to know. Because you don't want your jewels. Cynicism on the ground stuff. jewels. Land, I made a video about tribe. He's company one had subtitles. The other didn't. There was about 10,000 view count higher on the one without, with with subtitles. So there's a there's a massive increase in maybe these people at work. Yeah. on LinkedIn, not fucking turning the sound on like, or is also one to have LinkedIn counts of view. They count my 22nd, you might be more sort of inclined to watch a little bit more. But definitely, yeah, but I think before us subtitles create content that's honest, reliable, informative, so there's value in it. Okay. There's, there's reliability and honesty in it. That's it helps before the end of the week. Let's both try and sent three emails, three cold emails to people like that.
And let's see if we can get a response. So I'll pick three potential clients that that the rule is that you haven't been in contact with them before. Yeah, and reach out to them. And let's see what we can. Let's see if we use our strategies around authenticity and bringing value. What sort of the difference we can get. Hi,
Jane, I was at the front of your place last night. I see you live in Abbotsford. And I'm you know, I've got two kids and I see you've got two kids. That's probably not the right approach. Don't you want to come to the audience?
It's the the LinkedIn circle jerk
everyone. It's the daily talk shy, please send us an email high at the daily talk show.com Introduce yourself. But to give
you the suggestions that Josh put forward for how to do it. Yeah, actually, not just coming hard with a sale. Yeah,
what have you got to sell us on? And then also
please review us Yes, on iTunes in the podcast app. It's appreciated everyone have a great rest of your day and we'll we'll see you tomorrow that