Haircuts, booze and winning

Tommy: I'll start it.

Josh: Okay, we'll go.

Tommy: Glad we worked that out as we hit record.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's the Daily Talk Show, Josh and Tommy. What's the date?

Josh: Uh, it's the 19th, it's a Friday, it's a quarter to 10 in the morning.

Tommy: Ep 4, so.

Josh: Yeah, episode 4. It's gonna get to a top of 42 degrees.

Tommy: Fuck, you're really well done. Can you tell people about your, um, Your love of storms and—

Josh: Yeah, I love it all, but the funny thing is I don't have any real knowledge. Couldn't tell you what a cumulus cloud— Is that how you say it? I can't even say— Cumulus cloud?

Tommy: No, I don't know what that is. I've got no idea, but all I know is as soon as there's a fucking storm, it's a live feed from JJ.

Josh: I think what I love about storms and I love about any extreme weather is that everyone says you've got to stay inside, and that's right up my alley.

Tommy: Well, you've seen the video of me out in Bondi when we got hit by a massive storm with the, the, um, surf, like crazy waves, right? So there's waves in the Sydney Harbour that we went and surfed, and that's like, you can't— if you're not from Australia, you can't surf in the Sydney Harbour. It's a harbour, so the waves aren't meant to come in. So there's heads But when the swell's big enough or the wind's big enough, they come into the heads and they reverberate off one side of the harbour and push a swell across to the other. And you can surf in this place.

Josh: Is it like dirty water or is it pretty nice?

Tommy: No, it's close to the head, so it's cleaner than Bondi after a storm. Bondi is disgusting after a storm. But in Bondi, there was that sandstorm, which is like lifted up. Yeah, so like so much wind blew all the sand off Bondi Beach up over onto the walkway into the skate bowl. It was crazy.

Josh: Weather makes me feel small though as well, because it's just like you can— We had some crazy lightning the other day. How long have you been surfing for?

Tommy: As long as I can remember. My old man grew up down the beach.

Josh: Are your parents cool?

Tommy: Yeah, fucking oath.

Josh: Yeah, well, so your dad's surfy or not?

Tommy: My dad's— my dad's never smoked a cigarette, drank— he's drank maybe a few beers. He's not out there.

Josh: So he doesn't drink?

Tommy: Uh, no, not anymore. Rarely. I can't remember. It'd be light beer if I saw him. But yeah, he's never been pissed, so he's not cool in the terms of we go to the pub together and he's a—

Josh: which I don't know if that's— yeah, I mean, yeah, what does it call me?

Tommy: Parents go to the pub or we've been hanging out drinking together and it's like, I like it when it's someone else's parent. I don't know if it would be cool.

Josh: It wouldn't translate as well.

Tommy: For my dad. My dad met my mum at a yoga centre.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And everyone thought my dad was gay back in the day because it was mostly gay guys that did yoga. How funny is that?

Josh: But he's just like a, he's a cool, he's like a Tommy D, right?

Tommy: Like he's a very laid back, Tommy D is one of my mates who's kind of like, kind of cool.

Josh: Yeah. But I just assume that everyone, all of our listeners know who Tommy D is. No, no one knows. A cool, like, people, you know, do you remember people used to say metrosexual? No one ever says that anymore, right?

Tommy: It's because people don't wear fluoro-coloured tops anymore.

Josh: You know, when I said metrosexual, what came into my mind was this bright top that I got from JJ's, and I thought that was so metro.

Tommy: Mate, the epitome of metrosexual was people who wore a brand called Stevie.

Josh: Stevie? Yeah.

Tommy: So Stevie was these, these bright coloured t-shirts, and if you were in the club scene in the— I guess it was like early 2000s. Stevie had these fluorocolor tops that you could— they had scratch and sniff ones, so that would be like raspberry flavour or something, and so you'd scratch it and, and they were cool.

Josh: That would have been cool at the club.

Tommy: I didn't wear them though. My mate Wore them and he loved them. He was the biggest metrosexual going.

Brett: It was great.

Tommy: He'd do his hair. He'd have that really like sharp haircut with maybe a line in the side of his head.

Josh: Yeah. And haircuts say a lot about someone. How much do you spend on your hair?

Tommy: Um, 50 bucks.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: And I get it maybe like 6 weeks.

Josh: And you were saying that you go to the same per— Do you go to the same person? Yeah, a friend of mine. Is it the same my friend or something?

Tommy: I used to train him. When I was a personal trainer and I met him through the gym. He owns a salon and he's a legend. And so he just charged me $50. So it's like, he charges other people $70, I think. But it's because I've known him for a while.

Josh: Haircuts are interesting. Have you ever had gone through a hairstyle that was a bit shit?

Tommy: Mate, I had. Like I look back on photos of recent, sorry, of like recently I've been looking back on photos of me when I was 21.

Josh: Nostalgia alert! The whole thing's been fucking nostalgic.

Tommy: You like me to talk about old haircuts, don't you?

Josh: I know, I just like talking about it. I love it. I fucking love it. You love talking about the past, don't you? Beats this fucking right now.

Tommy: I had a bowl cut, I had an undercut, I had the number 28, Michael Jordan. I think it was 28.

Josh: What's the Michael Jordan? Is that a shade?

Tommy: It's Michael Jordan, the basketball player. 28 was his number on his jersey.

Josh: Oh, is it?

Tommy: And I had that in the back of my head underneath my undercut. I've had a shaved head, I've had just spikes.

Josh: Was that being funny or cool?

Tommy: That was, it was cool, bro. Me and my bros went down to Grant the Barber and got it. Once I got Shaq, I can't remember his number. I never got Speed Stripes, but I had, um, I had the number in the back of my head. So weird, so bogan. I had a rat's tail.

Josh: Did you ever shave your head completely?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, not, not real low.

Josh: Would you do it in adulthood, like now? Would you let me shave your head?

Tommy: No, it would reveal my fucking receding too much.

Josh: Nah, you've got a good solid hairline.

Tommy: Yeah, but my hairline's gone back a bit, but I've got thick hair, but it'd definitely make me look a bit more bald.

Josh: Oh yeah, you would.

Tommy: Yeah, you'd be in trouble. I don't think it would grow back.

Josh: I've, um, I shaved, um, A couple of years ago, after, straight after that, the world trip that I did.

Tommy: You mean when you got out of custody?

Josh: Exactly. No, when I actually, I think it started off like I was just gonna do a bit of a trim and then just fucked it. I'm like, okay, let's just shave this whole thing. Just shave straight into a hotel toilet. We clogged the toilet. It was like flooding and shit.

Tommy: Call Brett Fitzpatrick. You did this yesterday. This is my mate, he fucking blows up.

Josh: Okay, great.

Tommy: This is talking about haircuts.

Brett: Yeah, great. Weapon.

Tommy: What's up, bro?

Brett: What's happening, mate?

Tommy: Mate, just, I'm just recording a podcast. I need you to fucking tell me what happened yesterday with your hair.

Brett: Oh, uh, well, like, I showed him a photo of He goes, like, what do you want done? I've never been there before, and I had an old photo of what my hair used to look like, um, and I was like, oh, I just want it like this. But I was about 15 kilos lighter back then in that photo than what I am now. And he goes, yeah, nah, I've got you covered, mate. And then he started, he goes, oh, what do you want on the side? Do you want like a number 1 or a number 2? I said, we'll start with a number 2 and we'll go from there. And then And he started doing it and I'm like, you've gone too high there, mate. But because he's gone with the clippers, there's no going back. You can't stick the hair back on. So he started doing it and I'm looking and I'm going, I'm in trouble here. And now I look like a paintbrush. I legitimately look like I've got a paintbrush on top of my fat head. On the bristles.

Josh: What did you—

Tommy: tell me the emotions that you're experiencing because you expressed it very verbally yesterday.

Brett: Yeah, well, um, well, unfortunately I had— I thought I'll do the right thing because I had an audition, um, for a commercial and I thought I'll do the right thing and I'll go and get a haircut, make myself look all nice. And let's just say I didn't, uh, I didn't get— I wasn't—

Josh: is it a Dulux commercial?

Brett: I wasn't successful with the audition, and, uh, I reckon it might be because I look like a giant paintbrush on my head. Like, seriously, it's bad. It's not great. I told my wife and she said, well, just, just go back in there and tell them to fix it. I'm like, you can't fix it.

Tommy: And, um, how are you supposed to fix it?

Brett: Excuse me, can you please pick up the, the hair and stick it back on my head?

Tommy: How do you feel about the guy who did it?

Brett: Well, I won't be going back there. He won't be getting another $35 out of me.

Tommy: It's kind of cheap. You probably can expect to get that Well, he reckons he was pretty—

Brett: and I reckon he was pretty happy about it. And you can't— like, they showed the back of it and stuff, and they go, oh, I'll show you the back, you know, let me know what you think. And what are you supposed to say?

Tommy: Did you lie to me?

Brett: That looks shit. Well, of course I did. I said, oh yeah, thanks, mate, that's great. No, it's not. What are you supposed to say?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brett: Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, it looks shit, mate. And then what are they supposed to say? Well, sorry, mate, bad touch. Yeah.

Tommy: All right, all right, mate. Thanks for that story. That was funny.

Brett: Okay, mate.

Tommy: I'll speak to you. See you, bro.

Josh: The thing about the mirror on the back—

Tommy: that was not planned, by the way.

Josh: Yeah, great, good story. He— the thing with like showing your back, like with the mirror, yeah, it's really— it's, it's for them to feel good about themselves. Because when are you ever going to say, no, that looks shit?

Tommy: I have gone back and had my hair fixed. Like they missed a whole bit or something. I know I've gone back.

Josh: I just stress about going to the hairdresser, full stop. I stress about like, you know, like the hipster fucking barbers where you just sit down, like you just take a seat. It's like, well, what order are we in, guys? Who came in? Like, there's a stress. And then someone will walk in, they've got a coffee. I'm like, oh, I'm back. I'm like, okay, so what? Who's been holding your fucking spot?

Tommy: And is this the current place that we walk past? So we walk past a place to get coffee. Quite a bit and you're like, no, I can't fucking walk past, I haven't been back.

Josh: That's one of them, but there's another one too that even more anxiety because I don't drink and their whole thing, it's called the Drunk Barber and it's like you get a free beer.

Tommy: So Drunk Barber, did you know that that would be?

Josh: It was the only one that was open on a Monday because you know, they're all fucking closed on a Monday.

Tommy: They work Saturdays.

Josh: Yeah, and I was so determined to get a haircut. And this place on Smith Street, the Drunk Barber or whatever, was open.

Tommy: And so, and what did you do? They offer you a drink?

Josh: No, they didn't, but I was fucking panicked the whole time, just being like, you know what, I'll just say I had a big weekend.

Tommy: So you lied?

Josh: No, I didn't. I didn't have to, but that was in my head. Like, in my head I'm like, okay, the only people that go to this place drink.

Tommy: Should we talk about the alcohol thing?

Josh: Yeah, we can if you want.

Tommy: Yeah, well, because we talked about my old man not really drinking. You're still cool. And then, um, you don't drink.

Josh: Yeah, you, uh, no, I don't.

Tommy: I think, um, like, and, and it's not like you just, uh, every now and then I have, and I just don't drink because there's a lot of people that say that.

Josh: But you, I really— we, we did Vox Pops with people and a guy said he doesn't really drink. It turns out he just drunk every weekend.

Tommy: See, this is the thing. So explain your, I don't I don't drink. What does that mean?

Josh: I don't drink means that I won't look at the drinks menu at a restaurant.

Tommy: You haven't? How many times in your lifetime? 20— How many? 27?

Josh: It'd be like half a dozen times.

Tommy: So, 6 times you've been drunk or drunk.

Josh: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I've been drunk once.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: And I've had something to drink half a dozen times. One would have been Bree and I in Bali in like 2010. We had like a cocktail at a or like, what do they have at Mexican?

Tommy: Margaritas.

Josh: We had a margarita, yeah, cocktail. Um, and I remember I had some spirits at, uh, Bree's sister's wedding, which was in, I think, 2009.

Tommy: Fuck, I never realised how boring it is when someone tells you the event that they drank at, because in my circles it's just—

Josh: it—

Tommy: you don't talk about that because that's just what everyone does. Yeah, so funny. We're from two Such different worlds.

Josh: Yeah, I don't know. And people will constantly ask why I don't drink. Mm-hmm. And I don't really have a reason. I think it's just that, for one, I feel dehydrated when I do it. Yeah. But also I think it's like part of like the social— I think it's like when I was growing up, I would see people drink, I'd see them make idiots of themselves, and I was sort of like, I don't really want that. And I think that's now that's not really an acquired taste. I think the one interesting area at the moment is like I had wine like 6 months ago or whatever when I did that video.

Tommy: You went to the Yarra Valley, which is a fucking wine region.

Josh: Yeah. And they had like the big breakfast, big lunch or whatever, the bee's lunch, and they served wine. So, we tried some. But I think that's one of the challenging— I don't feel the need at all to drink at home. I think travelling might be a different story. So, like when we go to Italy, I'm going to be pumped for trying all different food. And I can guarantee that a lot of the places will, like wine will be a part of the experience.

Tommy: You know what? I love drinking while travelling. Like when I was in Italy a couple of years ago, I— Amy was pregnant and very sick, so she stayed home. And so I'd go out exploring, right? And you can drink on the streets, you can drink anywhere, really. And they sell alcohol everywhere, like little news agencies, just little corner stores. And you can just buy a beer, like a local beer— Peroni in Italy, but Mythos in Greece, where I was as well— and you'd pay like €1. And so you could walk around just drinking a beer, I'd get like 3 of these. And it's the feeling that it gives you, the taste of drinking.

Josh: Just a little chill.

Tommy: It was like a bit of a buzz and it was nice just like walking around exploring, having a beer. And it's like I have associated that with travelling.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: 'Cause I've done it quite a bit, right?

Josh: So, if you did that, if you every day went to Flinders Street and had like a drink, like that becomes a problem at that point, doesn't it?

Tommy: 100% a problem. But like I drink more when I travel because it feels like holidays. And I'm relaxing.

Josh: I think it's like eating and shit like that too. But I feel like I don't, I can't remember the last time I had soft drink with sugar. Like, I know that fucking the diets, the zeros, all that sort of shit is atrocious for you. I definitely cut down because when I was a kid, nostalgia alert, I used to drink a lot of soft drink. Like, I would drink at least a litre a day.

Tommy: Shit.

Josh: And so, I transitioned from, I remember I transitioned from that to this like, Punch. Not punch. What's it? What's the...

Tommy: Drink.

Josh: Juice. Drink. Yellow. No, no, no, no, no. It's... Cordial. Lemonade.

Tommy: Lemonade.

Josh: Like not, but diet lemonade.

Tommy: But... Oh, yes.

Brett: I know that one.

Josh: The punch. The yellow one. What's the lemony one that if you go to... No, no, no. If you go to like a fucking pub, you would have Sprite and then on the other, like a Solo. What's the Solo one?

Tommy: Yeah. Lemon squash.

Josh: Lemon squash. Thank you. Fuck. That's the word I was looking for.

Tommy: It's just fucking lemonade. Just... More cloudy version, yeah?

Josh: Nah. Let's go. All right, why the fuck are we talking about non-alcoholic drinks? Anyway, no, what I was gonna say is I drunk, so I transitioned from all this Coke, Coca-Cola, third in a row of talking about Coca-Cola, to this diet lemon squash. I remember I would drink like a litre in a day and I would have like diarrhoea like every fucking day. Like I'm sure— Why the fuck you mentioning that? 'Cause I think that there was probably like, 6 months, people are like, fuck, you lost so much weight. I'm like, yeah, I've just like not drinking soft drink. But I think it was like I was fucking shitting it all out. But anyway, so part of it is I've always had a rule where like don't drink your calories. I think all this vegan fucking movement and shit like that's changed it. Like acai bowls and stuff is changing that a little bit for me where I'm like, if it's a smoothie made with good shit, then I'll have it.

Tommy: And so what you're saying is there's no good shit in alcohol.

Josh: Exactly.

Tommy: So, but I think, yeah, so for me, alcohol, there's definitely— you have a— you start drinking young and it creates a pattern, and it's getting drunk on the weekends. Like, most weekends growing up, me and my mates would get alcohol and get drunk.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And where were your mates? What were they doing?

Josh: Were they doing it literally I don't have these friendship groups from school.

Tommy: Yeah, but when you were at school, were you a loner? What was I doing?

Josh: The funny thing is I never felt like a loner. I remember I'd be—

Tommy: But did you have a group of mates, like the boys or—

Josh: Up until, I think like Year 7, Year 8, Year 9.

Tommy: Those parties, any alcohol?

Josh: Yeah, there was alcohol at those parties, but they called them gatherings or whatever.

Brett: Yeah, gatherings.

Josh: But not when I was like, when I was older, didn't really fucking do it. I was like, seriously, to be honest, too busy making videos. I'd be, I would invite people over. So, people would go out and go to parties and stuff. And those same people who I wouldn't really associate with and go to parties, I'd invite them over and would make videos together. So, we'd go spend a Saturday in the national park or whatever. And I think that that was, my parents had created a cool house. It was fucking fun to be there. They had an awesome pool.

Tommy: Dad had a hot rod.

Josh: He had a hot rod. There was like National Park and shit like that. So there was, he actually sold the hot rod to get the pool. So we didn't have them both at the same time.

Tommy: That's fucking, thank you, Dad.

Josh: Yeah, it was great. But yeah, so I think that I spent a lot of time just sort of in my zone, not really having to socialize.

Tommy: Fuck, that'd be a cool house to have.

Josh: Poker, poker would have been the only thing. And we didn't really, I don't think we drunk, but yeah, like, oh, maybe the guys had some spirits and I saw it as a little bit lame. Like I thought drinking at that time was the tryhardiest thing you could have fucking done. Like it was just like, I'm like, all these, I nearly dropped the C-bomb. I think that's where we draw the line. We won't drop the C-bomb on the show. These fucking guys.

Tommy: All these chunts.

Josh: Yeah, all these chunts. I'm like, They're not like— These fucking socially awkward mofos are thinking that they're top dog because they're having a Jim Beam and they're like all loose.

Tommy: You're overthinking it because they're not. And I wasn't. We either wanted to drink beer.

Josh: No, but they act like that. What annoyed me is the disconnect between yourself and your drinking self. And for me, what would be annoying is you'd go have this fucking fun time and then the next day, they were like in a different mood. It's like, well, hey, okay, mate.

Tommy: And you just don't think about it, Josh, because I've done all of that.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And we're not thinking we're cool. We maybe think we're cool because—

Josh: And you don't think that you're cool, but all of a sudden you have this like level of confidence. But I, so I think what I do is I value confident people who are, who are comfortable in their skin.

Tommy: Maybe you were too emotionally intelligent as a kid to thinking about all of these things. Because fuck, I can't remember thinking about anything of that.

Josh: And then I think like to be looking back, nostalgia alert, I think that I think I was, if I had a kid or whatever, I would want him or her to be like me because I was like cool in the essence of I made stuff and I didn't give a fuck what people thought.

Tommy: It's a retrospective look though. Yeah, exactly.

Josh: At the time, uh, at the time I felt like a leader, but I didn't necessarily— The kids around, I knew that I was cool. The kids around didn't necessarily, but the funny thing was there was a shift that the older that we got, I think the realisation of like, ah, this is, these things that Josh does are actually valuable. Like it's not cool to have LinkedIn in year 11 and updating it and doing all that sort of shit. You did?

Brett: Yeah.

Josh: Fucking hell.

Tommy: So here's the thing, right? New dad, I think about—

Josh: New dad alert.

Tommy: If my boy went down your path or my path, I'd probably choose your path. 'Cause man, fuck, I've been loose in comparison. And I haven't gone through all that stuff. I think I've ended up all right. And I drink less now than I ever have.

Josh: I don't think there's anything wrong with drinking. 100%, there's nothing wrong with drinking. There's nothing, for me, it was a choice based on those circumstances. Whereas I think you bring young kids and alcohol, there's more sort of peer pressure, try hard sort of shit around it. Yeah. And I think that, I think part of it is too, I couldn't think of anything more boring than standing around. Like, I fucking hate— I've never been to a club.

Tommy: You're overthinking it, mate. I could sit at the pub. You and I could go to the pub right now, and if we started drinking beers, we'd be 4, 5, 6 hours in, and we would just be fucking shooting the breeze, hanging out, talking.

Josh: And is that more valuable than doing that sober?

Tommy: Yeah, but I'm not thinking about the value of one or the other. It's like You do it, you feel good, you would like it. And I'm not saying I don't want you to do it, right? But I'm defending the people that do do it because I've done it so many times. I've formed amazing friendships by just spending time, one-on-one time. And I know what you mean, there is an awkwardness, um, there is a confidence thing that you need to have when you are doing that sober, but all those walls are broken down, right?

Josh: I think that this setting the expectation that you need this 'Or that this thing is going to help socially.' But so there is that element for some things, dates maybe, like a bit of Dutch courage. Or like, what? Family events and shit, I'm sure.

Tommy: Yeah, I think there would be people that do think about that, but then there's a majority of people, i.e., myself, that didn't feel like that around just social situations or like with mates or new people when I moved to Shepparton.

Josh: I'm—

Tommy: one of my best mates now, Kel, we spent most Fridays at the pub in the afternoon and we just talk, man. And it's dudes coming together. Yeah, it's like, that doesn't—

Josh: like, girls, are you a homebody, do you think, or no?

Tommy: Um, no, I'm— I can be pretty transient. Like, I could, I could move.

Josh: My bike's about to fall.

Tommy: Like, you're what?

Josh: My bike behind. Look, it just like rolled across from the— it's okay. It must be windy. Guys, it's windy out as well. That's another weather update. It's currently 33 degrees and it says 33 and windy on my phone.

Tommy: You'll be live streaming soon. No, I'm a homebody. No, I can be pretty transient, but I have— having a baby, mate, you start wanting to just lock it down.

Josh: It's fucking easier as well, right? Like, it's like going out becomes—

Tommy: you want comfort.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And not even home. A homebody for me is like cementing your roots to one place and putting a bit of commitment and—

Josh: Absolutely. You can still fucking leave the house is what you're saying. Yeah. I think that like I'm this— The weird thing about me is I'm an introvert, extrovert, homebody, traveller. Every— Like I'm this fucking yin and yang. I'm— And so like I care what people think a lot. I don't care what people think at all. I think that that's a big thing. Because I'll invest a lot of time in relationships and stuff like that. I think people can get the wrong idea that, oh, like this is optional. And if anytime it gets too fucking hard, I'm like, yeah, yeah. I think that that surprises people. But yeah, the, I, for instance, I like, I'm a homebody in the sense of I would, I love being in my own company as well. But I also love fucking entertaining people, that type of thing.

Tommy: I reckon you find entertainment. I don't know, maybe you just—

Josh: My entertainment, well, you said like, I did an Instagram storey of a party that I was having at my place, the Victoria's Secret show party with like 4 friends. And you just like, that looks fucking shit.

Tommy: Looks so boring. Josh amongst a group of girls.

Josh: But it was like, we had like, we, fuck, Bri and I got all these decorations and shit. And that was fun, but I love, yeah, I mean, I grew up, as I said, in a family where it's like we were, the Janssens would always have the events at their house, right? Would always have the parties and the barbecues. I was always in charge of the barbecue. But yeah, I think, yeah, I don't know, I feel like we've spoken a lot about ours. What sort of content do you like consuming? What book? If you had to pick up a book, yeah, what would you pick up?

Tommy: Pick up the one you gave me, Tribe of Mentors. Yeah, is it—

Josh: what's the trouble? Tribe of Mentors.

Tommy: Yeah, I, I'm just— I'm listening to podcasts now, watching— actually, I'm not watching— I'm not watching and listening too much because I've got so much going on. Like, when I'm making more than I'm consuming at the moment, which is good. I think there's such a push. I saw something whatever I was watching, maybe it was Gary Vee talking about making versus consuming.

Josh: I put my hand up.

Tommy: Yeah, why'd you fuckin' put your hand up?

Josh: I'm gonna start doing that from now on. It was saying we've got 5 minutes left. All right. It looked like I was trying to ask you for—

Tommy: You wanna get in on the conversation? You asked me a fuckin' question. Sorry, mate, can I just put my hand up? I just need to—

Josh: It's quite rude doing 5 fingers like that. It's not like a one finger up, it's like a fuck.

Tommy: Sorry, go ahead. I was driving here today and I saw this fucking epic draw— epic painting done in spray paint, mural of this, I think it's a Chinese guy, Vietnamese guy near Victoria Street.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And there was like a man, a woman, and another woman So fucking good. And I thought there's another guy who does like drawing murals of people, Lush Sucks.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: He's like a Melbourne— How would you explain what he does?

Josh: Well, I think what he does is he takes that zeitgeist pop culture, what everyone's talking about, and interprets it into art. And I think it, I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but it shows the difference in artists where it's not—

Tommy: where I was going, I was going from this guy is amazing and can actually paint better than Lush in terms of you, if you were to put two together and you were to go draw this guy and draw— and Lush did it and this guy did it. And then I was going to a video I put up about a Lush mural and this guy that gave him criticism on my page and said, Lush, the only thing about Lush is he sucks. And I clicked onto this guy's page and he was an artist, right? And I was thinking about winning and I was thinking about, you've got two guys, one this dude in, you know, Richmond that's drawn that, that amazing guy who's probably better than Lush as far as replicating a real moment with a paintbrush or a spray can. And then Lush, who's winning, he's fucking getting out there.

Josh: What's the hybrid, right? Like, we know filmmakers who can get something really beautiful, can shoot amazing work, but it's your ability to understand the world around you. Like, I remember hearing when I worked, when we, you know, when I worked in radio, they would talk about the job of the people on air is to actually live a life, because if you don't live a life, you've got nothing to talk about.

Tommy: Well, I think in terms of what I'm speaking about, it's like the winning thing is people think you, if you're like, this guy's amazing at recreating something, but then Lush, he's winning in all those other spots.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So this angry artist that wrote on my comment about, wrote in my post about Lush, he's an artist, and I looked on him and I wanted to write back to him and say, for the fact that you know who Lush is, he wins.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Over you.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because you're an artist no one knows about and Lush has attention. And that's what I love about it. People fucking get into him.

Josh: Do people really get into him?

Tommy: 100%.

Josh: Why? Because he doesn't follow, you know, conform, like, and this is what we fucking love. Like we love nonconformists.

Tommy: He's a massive cowboy of the art world, right? And that's the thing.

Josh: And that's what entices me to travel so much. When I tell people, Bree and I are going away for 4+ months, People go, "What's happening with this? What's happening with that?" I'm like, look them in the eye, I'm like, "I don't know." And they fucking—

Tommy: Playing the unsafe path wins. And you don't necessarily, if you're the busiest person—

Josh: It's not the unsafe, it's the uncomfortable, it's the unknown. And I think that it's very easy to, there's that saying, if you always do what you always did, you always get what you've always got. And so, for me, I look at where I'm at. I'm like, okay, I can do bigger projects. I can do this, I can do that. But it's not until you have radical change of environment, for you it's having a kid. Those radical changes that, as you said, they change you. They change— you go from being someone who wants to go out all the time to not wanting to go out. And that provides the yin and yang as well. Being able to go in. Like, for me, traveling— I won't necessarily fucking leave my house today. I probably will. I'll go to the PO Box. PO Box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria 3067.

Tommy: You got a lot going on in your head.

Brett: The—

Josh: but the thing is that I won't fucking travel necessarily around Melbourne, but I will have a completely different outlook on things if I'm in Italy or if I'm in Greece or if I'm in fucking Romania.

Tommy: So the point I was getting at with the winning stuff is that my thought around that guy did that amazing mural, he's amazing, but you don't have to be that. There's so many other elements to winning.

Josh: You don't have to conform. You don't have to conform and you don't have to, I think everyone wants a path and it's like people will listen to this and they'll say, fuck, that's such a waste of time for them and for us. And the thing is that we enjoy it.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't feel like I've wasted my time.

Josh: And yeah, like, who gives a fuck? Like, what? Don't listen. I think that there's so many people, like, especially when you're in the creative, doing creative stuff, people will get hypercritical. And, um, I mean, I don't think we're going to look back and, and talk about the critiques or the, you know, the reviewers.

Tommy: Mate, I spent time doing the radio show and that's all that we did. It was constantly reflecting, going what was good, what was bad, and it's okay. And you do progress quite quickly in some areas, but then there's also just fucking doing it, moving on and enjoying it and taking on some feedback. But the fact of just posting or creating something and putting it out and then moving on doing it again. That process, that's, that's a, that's a winning process. Yeah, because you do get better, you will grow, and you do start understanding more about—

Josh: Well, you change. And I think the thing is that, you know, you've been out of school for long enough, so have I, to see what happens with people who don't change, right? Think about the people who did, who radically changed, and the people who didn't radically change. The people who didn't change are a little bit further along than where they were, but basically where they were. And the people who did have radical change are new people, and they've developed, and they've adapted, and they've learnt things. Um, I think that I've learnt more since leaving school, obviously, than actually in school. And for me, life is about constantly learning.

Tommy: You know fuck all by the time you finish school.

Josh: Yeah, 100%.

Tommy: It's like, nearly 30 now. It's like, fuck, I knew nothing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I've had most of my growth in the last 5 years, I think, as a man.

Josh: And we create these little worlds too. When we're in school, the principal is like the president, right? Like we put so much weight and then you sort of, Go back and teaching is a really amazing profession and it needs great people. But the reality is that the weight that we put on these leaders or these principals, they're developing us. But the thing is, we move on and then we get perspective, just like top dogs who are in Melbourne or in the Australian market doing things. Nothing outside of that.

Tommy: Yeah, but everything in it.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. And what I, and my thing is that the bubble, as soon as you feel like you're getting too big in the bubble, you should find another bubble.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a good point.

Josh: Um, and for me that's around travel. Not saying that I've like fucking dominated anything here, but what also can happen is that the merging of bubbles and saying, okay, What about if I take my knowledge of this and that and bring it together?

Tommy: Shake shit up and you get a new perspective.

Josh: Absolutely. And that's part of my YouTube channel too, where it's like being in front of the camera.

Tommy: Yeah. Shaking it up. Alright. Check out Josh's YouTube channel, youtube.com/joshjansen.

Josh: And Tommy Jacket's also on there, youtube.com/tommyjacket. We just posted up a video on his channel of me being a dad for a day, which was a fucking disaster. No, it was actually fine. It was fine.

Tommy: Episode 4, that's done, mate.

Josh: Enjoy your weekend, everyone, and we'll see you, um, on Monday. Check out our website, thedailytalkshow.com, and, uh, subscribe on all of the iTunes and shit. Thank you. Bye.