#697 – Instinct & Confidence With The Blow’s Phoebe Simmonds/
- April 24, 2020
Phoebe Simmonds – Founder of The Blow & Co-founder of the memo
Phoebe founded The Blow to empower women with beautiful hair, through events that bring people together socially and professionally.
Wanting to build more than just a business, The Blow gives $1 from every Blow Dry to Share The Dignity, to help end period poverty and fight for the safety and support of domestic violence victims.
Phoebe also co-founded the memo, an essential baby and maternity edit of the most loved baby brands on the planet.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– The Blow
– Going from idea to execution
– Building a service business and doing a cost analysis
– Marketing early days
– Finding great people
– Instinct and confidence
– Being an expert on yourself
– Meditation and being present
Phoebe on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phoebeactually
The Blow: https://theblow.com.au/
the memo: https://thememo.com.au/
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 697 Happy Friday Welcome to the show Phoebe Simmons
just in your car Yeah, currently yeah my car just a casual. Yeah, just hanging out. Not very scenic. Sorry about that. No, it's beautiful. Can you set the same where actually are you right now? Yeah I'm at the front of the blow which is my glow Jibu take on little Colin straight and I couldn't get a park. So in time for the show, so I'm in a loading zone and just hanging out and just keeping my eye out for any city of Melbourne guys didn't wear a jacket to me. So it might be a might be a thrilling show for you guys. I might have this up. I get up on a truck. I mean,
it's not always that we can get a live traffic update from Colin straight. Can you deliver us one?
Exactly. Well, it's like high construction.
designs at the moment. So not much space for shitty little 2014 Volkswagen polos it's just truck Central.
First of all, I wanted to I was gonna look it up and sort of impress you with everything I know about hair. Can you explain what it actually means to get a blow dry for for grumps playing at home?
Absolutely. And just to set the scene, I am not a hairstylist, so I actually don't know anything about Harry that if that makes you feel any better, Josh.
I so my background is branding marketing. And I saw a really big opportunity in Australia that hadn't been faced on in the market, versus huge trends that were going on particularly in the States, where women would invest in a weekly or twice weekly blow dry blow dries can be a really powerful way to help women conquer their day with confidence. So it involves a wash, a blow dry and a style and it means that
You're saving a lot of time on doing your own hair. And you can get it whenever you see anyone with really beautiful polished hair, it means that they've put a lot of effort into it as opposed to doing like, you know, a top knot, which is what a lot of people are rocking at the moment. So women rely on blow dries too,
feel a lot more powerful and confident. And they a lot of women get them before any big event. Whereas a lot of our guests as well her in corporate Melbourne will get a blow dry kind of once or twice a week at 7am before they start their week of work and so that they just feel a lot more put together. I love that. No, no, no. Not many other things are things that I do in life where I walk out feeling confident after getting a shopping cart, and having that sort of massage during it. I mean, yeah, head massages, it's time for the best. Can you understand you said you're not a hairstylist, but can you at least appreciate it.
Right head massage. Oh completely and you know what the thing is hairstylist don't understand. So when I was originally putting together kind of the product menu I was I put in an extra 10 minutes for a head massage. And they were like, anyone actually get that? I'm like, dude, that's the best part of the whole thing. Like where you can just sit there. Have you ever had that thing? Like a Turkish haircut? Where the guys do? Like, burn your nose hairs?
I've seen it on like Instagram where they do the whole like, the like actually like burning hair in general, which seems Yeah, crazy. Yeah, they like bend your nose hairs out of like a complete Turkish men's haircut. I think that's being offered more and more. You guys should check it out. How long does it take? nose hair just not with no.
Not professionally. So what is it like? Is it like a 45 minute thing or what's like
Yeah, yeah, it's 45 minutes. So wash takes like 10 minutes and then the blow dry, which is really just using like a hairdryer and like a big rolling brush. And then that adds a lot of body of movement and obviously drives the hair off. And then a style using tongs. So to create really nice bends or kills or waves. When you look at a VM, or you're going to Asia, I was just gonna say,
we've got a video production company and and we've come from a video background working for other businesses. And so it's like I've always thought, you know, it's advantageous to have that experience of being the person behind the service and then, you know, getting people on to help with the service. What is that sort of mindset going into a business where you're not the the service provider, the professional behind, you know, the the blow wave or the blow drying, head massage, how do you should have one of the things to look out for going into a business where you're creating the
environment that the business is in and doing all the other things but not the service. What are you looking for someone? What are the learnings that you've had?
Yeah, well, I think the biggest thing for me is because I'm not a hair stylist.
I actually think it's been quite advantageous because my background is brand and marketing fold because medics brands, so
in an industry where a lot of salons are owned by hairstylist hair stylists are approaching it in the way that they know but which is all excellent and great, but I had to lean into my strengths, which was branding, marketing, and really understanding the customer experience and knowing what a professional woman wants. And so I was able to build out a very clear positioning statement and a DNA around a brand that, you know, for me, the blow was never just about blow dryers. That's obviously a part of it. That's our product. But I'm more interested in how we make women feel and the physical and emotional transformations that we can
And we stand for the strength of women. That's a really big feminist pace to the work that we do the events that we ran. So, obviously, we need to do blow dryers, that's our bread and butter. But I'm more interested in creating a space where women can come together to lift each other up. And I think that's how the blue has been able to carve out a really unique place in the market. And this is just another hair salon that's offering a service.
Yeah, well, it is almost like beyond the service, right? Like a personal trainer is not a just a person instructing. You do two exercises you need to be able to communicate understand humans. Read emotions and all those things. It's Yeah, I love that approach. It's, I think maybe people that start businesses usually end up in something they've done because they connected to the service, but it's the same thing. You're connected to the marketing and the branding, which is is your love. It makes a lot of sense.
the business side of things Phoebe, is it? Like what is the actual business of? Like, what do you have to consider? Is it the like, you've got the lace? Then you have, like, I'm guessing the like big things that go in your head is that my cat? Like, is that how it works? Like what's the business behind it? Yeah, um, well, so it took me 11 months from the time that I had the idea to the time that we are condemned doors, which was pretty quick, considering I was still working for 10 months of that.
But they're big ticket items like when you would do a timeline. And when I did, I did a timeline of everything that I needed to tackle. And obviously the lace is the most important pace and the pace that can really hold you up. So that was about three months of finding the place in negotiating all of the all of the terms. And then my the way that I approached it was all of the operational stuff.
I could, I knew that that would be really heavy. And in the back end of the pre launch kind of prep, whereas all of the brand and marketing stuff I could do at the start, when things were still quite lumpy, because you know what it's like you're waiting on emails and confirmations of certain things. So I tried to control all of the things that I could control and create early on, which meant that as things got a little bit more stressful, closer to the date around the build, and recruitment and training and, you know, council permits and all that kind of stuff, and met the marketing was already set and ready to press go on
in time for lunch. So did you have a sense then, of, of this is how much it's going to cost? Like, I guess if you've got something that's like, a lot of assets up front, like, is that something that you, you lease or like what's the actual like, sort of the deconstruction of understanding things like margins and making sure that you have like a sustainable business?
Yeah, sure. So and because we're a service business, and the way that I did a cost analysis was, it's a productivity matrix. So a service business is really fueled by
salary costs and hourly wages. So just say a casual worker, and $30 an hour, an hour blow drive $60 then you need to put in additional like payroll tax and super and all of that additional stuff, then you and then you add in your rent, as a kind of cut of By Allah, you really kind of grind it down into
like a very formulaic kind of approach. And that's how we manage our books. So we would say, okay, we, if I put two people on in the morning or five people on in the morning, and they're doing flow drives for 45 minutes at a time, how productive for the whole day Do they have to be to be able to make a return. So it's
You know, and that was a lot of guesswork at the start. But I came from Benefit Cosmetics, which they specialise in doing brow waxes. And so it's a service model as well. So I used that kind of formula to build out what the blow would be.
I don't know, I'm always curious about businesses that sort of put in that real planning before they've opened, because there's the projections of what you think it will do and what you need to do versus when the doors open starting to get that feedback. What was the sort of big things you notice from plan on paper, two people experiencing blowback?
I think it's just, I mean, you I'm a very instinctive person. So I always go with my gut. I didn't say it as a big risk despite signing a really scary lace and, you know, having people on payroll because I just knew it was gonna work. And it has and the theme that was the most gratifying was
It's starting to say people come through the door and then returning. And and that was that was incredibly exciting and you know, it was a slow start. But
you know, as we kind of got the awareness bit we kind of the rubber hit the road at about the six month mark and with retail there is an element of being patient and letting you know things take their course. And so I try and approach it by
like, only looking for one daily when and it could be a really nice customer email. It could be an Instagram post performing well. It could be hiring someone great or could be getting a really good pace of payout whatever it is, it was like Okay, that was my win for the day. And that's okay. Because otherwise you know, the highs are really high and the lows are really low. And I think particularly when you're a sole business owner, you can feel everything you know, in all its extremities
And so it was it was definitely a learning curve.
But there was no such thing as kind of a reality because you never know or an expectation because you never actually know what it's going to look like. And it changes so much day to day. But, yeah, in terms of in terms of those opening few months and the kind of plan that we had in place, we definitely met kind of where we're expecting to land. Is there any tricks on introducing customers to sort of a new category because I feel like I've seen things like the blow in other parts. So like the US but haven't really seen it much in Australia. How do you get people used to the idea of Okay, 7am I get my coffee, I go into the blow. Is there any like strategies around that? Yeah, it's a huge pot around education. So in the States, it's just understood that blow dry buzz exists.
And it's, you know, I guess once you've got,
you know, a certain level of disposable income, it's what you start to invest in. It's the same with nails. It's the same with brows. It's the same with spray tans and eyelash extensions. And whereas in Australia, I saw that the trend had come through with brows and with nails and Ilex eyelash extensions, but it hadn't yet arrived with blow dries. So there's a big piece on educating the bet around the benefits of blow dries, and head massages, I guess. But more the point like you can educate as much as you want, but it needs to be accessible. And so we've really built the business around being on being as effortless for a professional woman in the CBD as possible. So that's to do with location, but it's also to do with being able to book online and being open from 7am. So you can you can advocate but it needs to be
something that they can actually
Easily like part of their lifestyle on a weekly basis
in terms of geographical location of the store, I mean, you mentioned CBD and CBD in a business women before work, how important was it location? And why did you land on colon straight?
location was everything and and I had looked at a couple of sites and none of them felt quite right and kind of as I said, I'm quite instinctive peasant. So when I saw this space, I knew that it was that space. In addition, you need a certain amount of floor space. So I needed minimum 50 square metres and this was 50 square metres. So in an ideal world, it would have been even bigger to deal with demand on you know, big demand on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but it is what it is. It's nice and cosy and but little Colin straight felt really right to me because it's that time
top end of town that people kind of call the paracin. So it's already seen as quiet premium and luxury. And there's a lot of tourists trade as well which was very important to me because a lot of people who are in town for the weekend or they're here for Hindus or weddings, or staying in hotels nearby and come to the blow almost as a destination now, so it's kind of part of their hitless when they're in Melbourne, they need to go to the blow which is incredibly gratifying. And, and yet obviously they're being close to public transport and trams and offices is their bread and butter, the Monday seven to seven kind of Monday to Friday, seven to seven trade. A lot of blow dry bars or or hair salons do exist in suburbs, which is great. But I'm not catering to people who are in the suburbs during the weekday because all of my guests are at work. So I don't see any point being in the suburbs because that's actually not convenient for
My guess it needs to be in a place where they can go before work during work or after work. What was the most effective sort of marketing tool in the early days to acquire customers?
We did a lot. I mean, there was a lot of friends and family and partners and things like that going on at the start. I had a media launch four weeks in and then least came in to experience the blow and wrote a story and our business doubled overnight, which was huge for us. And so you know, having that that online feature, I mean, pay out to me, I mean, PR is everything. I think, and I think
a lot of people make the
not the mistake. A lot of people think that marketing and PR is the same thing. It's not it's a completely different discipline and you need to they really need the
the experts in that field with their little black book and their way of speaking and their way of making connections and telling stories to do that. So
Destiny and payoff early on. We also did a really cool activation, six months into international women's day where we caught, we didn't charge anything for blow dries and we just invited all of our guests to come in, get a free blow dry. And in return, we asked them to make a donation to share the dignity, which is our partner charity, and share the dignity provides tampons and sanitary items to women who are homeless, and they help to fight for their safety in support of domestic violence victims. So we thought that that was really a powerful kind of message for International Women's Day and we raised almost $6,000 that day. We did over 100 blow dryers and people were just coming in and wanting to be part of that experience and be part of that community and I felt a really big momentum shift that day going forward and also, you know, the Herald Sun and timeout and a tonne of publications covered it because it was different. So that was it.
That was a big energy change for me as well. I think from an awareness point of view businesses these days, your mission is to be a content creator, as well as the person behind the business. I mean, you're creating a lot of content, what's your, your thoughts on being a content creator behind a business? Yeah, it needs to be relevant and meaningful End of story. I mean, there's so much out there. And I think it needs to, once again come back to the DNA of the brand and everything that you stand for. Because at the end of the day, if everyone's posting the same names, just because they're funny, and cute and fit in my mind, you know, pink and red, because they're my brand codes, I mean, that doesn't set us apart. And so the DNA of the brand needs to come through all of the content that we create, and we put out there which, once again, is back to our mission statement of helping women conquer their day with confidence. So as an example, with the blow, I would never post a meme or something that was like, Monday or Fuck my life over
Because we're all about positivity and helping you feel really good and strong. So it's you, I think brands need to be very careful about the content that they're posting that it still maintains the tone of voice and the positioning of the brand in all of its purest forms, but it's a lot of work like the, you know, including Insta stories, and I'm saying a lot more Insta lives and things for brands as well, which is brilliant, and obviously community communities K and that's what's really driven the success of the blow. But it's a lot of work. You know, for for one person or two people or for a lot of small brands, kind of doing it and and staying to like a cadence kind of strategy, talking on that whole the people part of business. What have you learned about sort of finding great
People retaining the training, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, and it's something that I mean, I've been managing people for a long time, but I'm used to managing kind of marketing teams and, and you know, more of that professional side of things. So managing hairstylist is different. And it was hard to find the team at the start, who really understood everything that we're about. And so but once after, you know, a couple of weeks and months, we really got our groove on and you know, hairstylists are so passionate about what they do, and have a obviously really creative people. And so for me, it's about leaning into those the strengths of theirs but also acknowledging that I don't have any authority in hair so I need to give them enough rope to create and I need to listen to their, their insights in how they see a solid working because you know the blow is going to be expanding. We're going to suffer
As soon as we can open up again, across Melbourne and Sydney and nationally after that. So I'm not going to be around in the felon every day, the goal has always been for them to operate independently. So it's just empowering the team to be able to make their own decisions and manage the business like it's their own.
So you haven't, that's amazing going to Sephora, you've got a huge behemoth of a business that has probably its own definitely its own sort of set of values as a company, and then you've got yours, which has its own, how do you sort of mesh those two together and make sure they're, you know, working?
It's, it's the synergy between the values of the of the brands? Um, well, I think I mean, the brand, the brand that you create, obviously, borrows from the kind of values that you really stand for. And I think for me, the biggest thing is communication and openness and
I try and instil that in everything that we do and to always be really straightforward and clear, not only with our team, but without guests and, you know, otherwise it just breeds mistrust. And I know that, you know, I've only worked with women mind my entire career. I've only ever worked with women. And I think that
something that I hear often is people say, Oh, you know, I was never supported by my boss, or can be really bitchy, or she was trying to, you know, hold me back. I've never had that experience, luckily, but I do know that it exists. And so it's really important for me to create a culture where we can really walk, walk the walk and talk the talk because we always speak about being a community and a place where women can feel lifted up. It's important to me that my team also feel that they are really supported in everything.
They do as well.
As you said than done, though. It's amazing what you do, like where do you get the, the sort of the confidence? I guess like that requires a level of confidence to say, I'm getting the lace. I'm gonna do all that sort of stuff. Over the course of your entire career. Has there been any key moments where you feel like you've levelled up from a confidence perspective? Yeah, I've been, um, I guess I was quite precocious early on. I've been given a lot of
really great professional opportunities. So I was working at Mecca.
When I was at uni, and then I moved to London, straight off to that, and I worked for a company that was owned by Bono and his wife, which was a skincare company, which is a whole other story.
And then to ease into that were acquired by LVMH which is Louie Vuitton my Hennessy. They're the biggest luxury
glummer in the world and they are in brand will they and Sephora they own Louie Vuitton Marc Jacobs Fendi, Celine Tiffany Bulgari, amongst a million others. Milan Chandon verbs. So it was a really great
kind of baptism by fire to be welcomed into that world of how they operate. And so I was spending a lot of time going between London and Paris, and to
learn how to brand and learn how to market and luxury cosmetics brands. So that was a really exciting time, but definitely, I mean, I was 25 I had no idea what I was doing. But you just kind of have to level up and be really excited to the opportunity and then after that, I was Kate my pattern I at the time we came to move to Singapore. So I moved to Singapore and looked after your Benefit Cosmetics is expansion into forests across Southeast Asia.
So I was having to go to India and Indonesia and Thailand and Malaysia and do business with all of these different people with these different cultures and different ways of communicating.
And so that was as well and you by itself, right, so you're representing the brand but, you know, you need to hold firm, particularly when you're dealing with men, like many different coaches, I learned a lot about how to deal with French man, I learned a lot about how to deal with Indian men, it's, it's completely different. But for me, it was always about steady hand and
making really decisive, quick decisions. Like one thing that I learned early on was, when you're a manager, if you show any form of uncertainty, it can really rattle. So it's important just to stick with the guns and give one firm direction and
how do you like when you're in a moment where you're not really sure? How do you become too
You know, make the quick decision rather than sort of falling to being indecisive. And I guess, look, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? Like, you've just got to go with the gut? And it might not be right, but
Well, actually, no, it's always gonna be right. It fits he got. Yeah. And if it turns out to be wrong, then you know,
you can you can own that. But I think the worst thing is just not acting. And so I would just yeah, always go with instinct. And then you can obviously ask for feedback and ask what people think. But I don't think that it's
I don't think it does anyone any favours lots of arming and hiring and sitting on something for two weeks, just because you're not quite sure you need to check your facts. Yeah.
It's interesting. You mentioned sort of instincts and gut feel. You mentioned going into the space and little colons and it felt right
I definitely have had those moments. It's even with our office, I kind of had this thing where it's, you know, in hindsight, you're like, yeah, I really felt in the moment. What is what does instinct mean to you? And how do you explain it? Because it is almost the unexplainable in some respects. That's a tough question. Very good question. What's your view ahead message if you can answer?
Well, the thing is, there's no right or wrong answer. Right. Um, I definitely think, look, I don't think there's instinct without confidence. And I think, you know, just when you said earlier, how do you get your confidence? I mean, I've got experience. So, you know, my instinct is still rooted in,
in an understanding of how things could work about like, the early days, like when you were sort of at that early stage, like at your the assistant marketing level? Yeah. How do you then at that point, because I think that that can sometimes happen is we just saw just quickly
Jim is right outside my window I really she's delivering is currently live yeah and 97 speaking products because he's
highly valued at 97 got a new girlfriend and she lives in Perth, so he's been staying up until 4am. So he's been coming onto the show looking absolutely horrendous. But um, and so
yeah, but in the comments actually. Shana was asking about your skin. Yeah Jim Kay was
that's impossible no one ever pretend that you're no no.
There really is no show without punches.
Just what if you dropped off Tom?
beautifully Brent gift. I do a quick What do you say? We do an unboxing this is beautiful. This is my two favourite
I'm asked one is a psychology when expected cosmetic grime. Got some LaRoche pose a vitamin say I crave beautiful fruit goes well with his son song in the demo wash off for when you yet also goes with the sunscreen. So just be nice and hydrating.
Do you shake it before you spray? Is it a spray? I mean you don't have to but I do. Okay, sure. Um, and then some Roland sleep essential oils when he can't switch off after those late night phone calls. Yeah. This is
Okay, bye everyone. drinks.
Now. Okay, great. Good luck. Oh,
no, Shannon was asking you about your skincare routine as well. Thank you.
Following so can you give us
a little colon straight line
What's that east facing? Um, I
use a lot of stuff from Sephora and I am really, really big into actually Jim is as well The Rose Quartz and rollout and glasha buys OBD which is really good at massaging the skin and making sure that all of your oils really well absorbed, and it's really great for circulation and reducing inflammation. So I would get on that every night as a nice little routine. Highly recommend staying nice and cold as well. I like Yeah, yeah. Put them in the fridge. Oh, that's a good trip. Yeah, my son loves it. He loves it. He loves the grind.
Yeah, it's very, I'm back to the intuition stuff. I think it's really gut feel and, and you were You're right, JJ. It's like it is and Phoebe you mentioning like, it's all rooted in your belief system and your past experience and you
You've been, you know, had done by or not or things have worked. It's
you asked me what I think I, I'm what I kind of grapple with is the understanding that it might not be true. It's not a truth. Like the feeling I have in my gut isn't necessarily true. It is a reaction, it's an emotion, it's triggered by something. And it might not even serve you as well. Like I guess some people like your intuition might be really great and serve you but if you've come from a background that you've been told that you can't do it or to not trust certain things, or then you might be off Hmm. Yeah, I agree. I think that's particularly true with relationships as well. Like if you're yet from like an emotional point of view, but I think from a business, a business sense, you know, there Look, the blur is not a novel concept, right? Like blood drive bys exist everywhere, and so it's not like I was coming
Add it being like, Oh my god, I'm like completely changing the world with, you know, this brand new product.
And so, in a way I knew that it existed elsewhere and I just knew that the way I was going to do it felt right for me. And, and I think a lot of people sit on ideas because they don't have that confidence. And obviously like this, there's the money outlay, there's the risk bet like I live my life by YOLO, right? Like, you just never going to know I'd much rather live a fucked up, up and down emotional rollercoaster of a life then just leave one that just, you know, stays inside of the, you know, of the lines. And so the worst thing that's going to happen, so stay inside
my life because it's like, yeah, I mean, you can all like the it's so funny. I could think
But the decisions Josh and I have made with our business with starting something and things come up where you feel like, you know, logic. You know what, right, taking on a lease on little colons is outrageous. But you said it's like, it's funny. What I've realised, though, is at the moment of doing them, it's never it wasn't as crazy looking back on it now as what I think it should have been. Because it's like, yeah, it's
levelling up, as well. Right? Everything. Yeah, the COVID-19 stuff. Like if you listen to, like a podcast we did two months ago, it's like, yeah, we want to have a studio with 100 people in it, we want it like all of this stuff is just like, you listen to it now and you realise how actual like we just don't know. Right? Like we like we can.
It's like I could be so depressed and and, and worried and uncertain at the moment about the blow the fact you know, I closed early because I just didn't think it was safe.
And I wanted to follow social distancing rules before the government kind of reinforced everything. The worst thing for me in those those days. Basically, after the Grand Prix cancelled, I was like, Oh shit, like, this is this is the real deal. Like, okay, it's not about money. It's if the Grand Prix gonna shut down. I mean, and then everyone needs to stop making decisions. But the worst thing for me was that uncertainty and being like, well, when are we going to have to close? And so that was why I was like, not that's it. We're closing on March 17. It's the right thing to do. Yes, it cost me probably a week or two of sales. And yes, it put extra pressure on the team, but it was the right you know, we talk about our community and we talk about everyone feeling safe and positive in our space. And I didn't think that we were able to, to operate in you know, and stay true to our values by staying open.
You know, for one more hour, it just wasn't right. And so I think that's where that is
That instinct comes down, it's coming back to values. It's coming back to how you actually how it fits with you. Like it was it was up here, like, you know, the, the Sunday Monday, Tuesday night and just didn't feel right. And so I had to listen to that.
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, and there's also the distinction between the feeling up here and then just being nervous and uncomfortable because you're in a hard situation and, and yeah, I guess it is. It's like you've had it sounds like you've had a heap of life experience living in different parts of the world, which allow you to become an expert in yourself, like one more of we got outside of understanding ourselves. And so yeah, I do do any mindfulness practices. How much do you look? Yeah, honestly, I have to and I think, um, how old are you guys? I'm 47
Tj, 31 and Mason. Yeah.
Right. So like, when I turned 30, I lost my mind. And I found it really, really difficult. And so I had to start on 33 now, and I had to start really working on myself. So, you know, that was kinesiology. It was Reiki, it was journaling, it was yoga, it was some form of mindfulness, I suck at meditation still, but
and it was getting a much greater of awareness of who actually was and it wasn't something that I spent any time on during my 20s. And I think that's why everyone always says, Oh, you 30s the best decade like they're so amazing, you finally know who you are. And I definitely believe that to the case, but I also had to put that work in and, and I think that's where you're able to identify clearly what your values actually are, and what you're going to stand for and
the kind of person that you're going to be whereas in your 20s You're still figuring it out. And that's fun.
Do you think that you have to have that moment? Like everything falling apart to then rebuild and how much of the stuff that you were experimenting with stage and you continuing to find other things? Or do you think you almost need to break down at 40 or
write downs every year?
It's a weekly practice a Sunday, no, write down.
Like Blimey. Um, but yeah, you definitely need a reset, I think and you need bad things to happen to you, um, to be shaken a little bit and, and that's okay. And you need to sit with that and then you need to, you know, I have three words a year so last year, my my words with resilience, vulnerability and courage and then the sea
hilariously, my words were fun or our and fun creativity and what was my other one? Oh, presence. Um, so I try and kind of really work on those those things throughout the year. And that's a fun little exercise that I just keep on coming back to whenever I have moments
Yeah, I love that. I mean the words, as you kind of hinted to quite relevant for this year, the quite relevant in the in terms of what you'd want to bring in these times that we're in right. Some fun being present. And the other one courage.
Yes. And creativity and presence this creates. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Everyone needs a bit more creativity at these times. I mean, you mentioned you're expanding into Sephora. What is the what's the future hold for you at this moment? Well, it's just so hard to know, right? Like, you know how I like we can't really make plans at the moment.
But I'm actually really, you know,
famous last words, but I'm confident that we'll be able to operate relatively soon. And, you know, hopefully, at least by June, and the minute that I start to see consumer confidence back, because it's a different thing, I mean, you can open up and feel safe, but it's when people are willing to get back into the routines and head to their offices and go to events and feel okay with someone touching them.
I think that that's when I'll start to feel good about opening up the business in a
significant way or, or no more normal way. And then we'll do so far after that. So I mean, so forth closed at the moment, as well. And so we originally it was supposed to open ended March, early April. And so I don't know. June, July, August, September. What have you. What have you learned about yourself?
You know, I say,
well, growing up, we were never allowed to say the will board we because only boring people get bored. So I tried it.
Like, it's not even. It's not, I can feel my days very, very well like, I've still got a lot of work to do. I love reading I love doing exercise, like good, whatever. It's just the mundaneness of it that I found really challenging. Like, there's nothing to look forward to really is there a path from like chatting to you guys, which is hands down the highlight of my way. There's, there's nothing that's like, really exciting you. And so I think it's just being able to, I've found I'm still able to get joy from the things that have always given me joy, which is time to myself which is socialising with friends on like zoom and stuff and staying really fit which I have to do for my mental health. Anyway.
So I haven't really learned anything new, just that I need to be patient and to not try and force anything because it's completely outside of my control. So it's just like the thing that I've been leaning into, over this period has just been like complete surrender to the universe. Just on the boredom thing. I think parents are bloody spot on. Sam Harris who I do every every day. Yeah. Have you heard him talk about boredom? Yeah, that's very put it in perspective, and maybe think about all those people in my life that I had one friend. We don't really care that much anymore. But she used to say always I'm so bored. I'm so bored. And I just pulled out
the time wasn't with me. Maybe it was a hint to hang out. Yeah, I didn't want to hang out with somebody.
Holy shit. It was. No it wasn't.
Sam says boredom is often the one battery
Yeah between us and full immersion in the present moment. And it's for this reason that we ought to investigate it further when it arises. So it is like boredom the thought is like a an appearance in consciousness in our state, how we're feeling, but it's like, it can be used as the trigger to then go. Alright, well, am I avoiding sort of being alone with my thinking and all of that so it's I love that your parents a piece my not my mom's a yoga meditator, she would say that my mom's a massive GP and my dad's the complete opposite. So
balance had put it down to that level. And you guys get so deep, I'm really into these chat. Yeah, it's just like the
The on the present, like being present. How do you check yourself? Like, is there a do and when do you find that you're sort of lacking presence? Or why was that a word that you felt like you needed to? To include? I I mean, we'll pray
I saw like my life is scheduled to the hour and and I can easily get kind of worked up about that I have to do is gonna have to do this and it's always looking ahead and always thinking, Okay, I need to remember to manage the situation or call this person and I need to remember to say this or whatever. So I think I needed and I still need to do a better job of
just focusing on where I'm at in that moment and how I'm feeling and just tapping back into that otherwise I can get kind of carried away and I'm a bit well, windy. So do you catch yourself then is it actually like a
latching on? That's what I'm working on. And I think I'm getting better at it. I think it's just a been. That's why I have those words, it's even just to be, even by having them It means that I have to be more aware of it. It's like, it's like how journaling and journaling really helps me presence because I set up my
Through journaling, and I'm like, this is how I'm feeling. Even if I can do that for like half an hour, it puts me in a good, good mindset.
You said, You said you're bad at meditation, or did
I just can't do it?
I just can't do it. Can you do it?
I mean, I think I was version of it. But yeah, these minutes, but
like, you know how people go and do meditation courses, it frustrates me that I can't do it because I feel like I should be able to, but
my mind just wanders so much. And it's really difficult to Well, this is the present thing again, it's difficult to be super present and have like a complete moment of, of clarity. It's funny, isn't it with meditation stuff? I feel like I've got so much resistance to it. Like I know I can do it. I physically can sit there for 10 minutes. Yeah, it's only
Most like this thing of like, I just don't need the standard, even though that's not negative. It's like I just don't need the negativity. I just don't need that bullshit. Like I've had a big enough day. Let me just chill out. Sarah,
though like, sorry, go go baby. Oh no, you go.
No, you go.
People tell you. It's like everyone needs to do a meditation like, loud and clear. I understand that. I agree with that i believe in it. But there's speaking of resistance. It's kind of like how people tell me to watch Game of Thrones. It's like, I don't want to fucking watch Game.
Like it. Just leave me alone, like, and it's almost like it's too cool and popular now. So I'm just like, No. Have you seen pushback queen.
feminists are outraged by misogyny and all of the mains. Like off the back of it like obviously Carol Baskin is crazy. But I hate how we will also focused on her
And like Joe was just a whole other ballgame. Yeah, yeah yeah, I actually get back you should
damage if you fly to Melbourne
just before you just before we kind of wrap up I will say about the meditation stuff something I've learned this week is and food Did you grab missionaries have weighed This is the first time we've ever I feel guilty of being able to when you want to wrap up
question I think I heard it going
pressing this Yeah.
The the feeling of being distracted during the process of, of mindfulness is in itself, something that you can focus on. So
You know, it's like you focus on your breathing focus on the tickle in your nose, when you're breathing away, your chest is rising, whatever it could be like picking the point of, you know, acute focus, right? Something I learned today, this week, it was when you get distracted and then you get focused on fact, I'm being distracted from this meditation practice, that distraction can then be a point of focus, just like the nose. And so because all of these things are appearances in consciousness, are feeling the the tickle on the nose. These are just like, appearing right? And so within just choosing to focus on those so it is like I know the pushback that it feels like when you're being pulled away by thought and then you like Fuck, I'm annoyed that I'm getting pulled away by thought. And then you're but that is a thing in itself. That's like an object in, in consciousness to focus on so it's like, give it another stab. It's definitely Yeah, it's definitely good. I bet
And also watch Game of Thrones. Is
it too long? Too much? Too much? Yeah. Are you watching anything like what's on what are you watching at the moment? And I'm obsessed with homeland and have been for like, way too long. So there's like two episodes left ever. I'm going back and watching Mad Men again, which is just a great kind of filler. And have you seen mine Tanja? That's one
of those that those three things I haven't seen, and that's the thing It feels like there's so much to say now that I just said Mad Men.
It's good. I don't want to get
what's got to it's got more misogyny, Mad Men or God.
I mean, madman obviously has all the misogyny but it's in the 1950s and 60s, so you know, expected and he's the main guy
what's your thought? On? Which one?
You're rated? Do you read books? Yeah, it'd be great. Yeah. Are you writing Love, love love books? I'm reading phosphorescence by Julia bed at the moment, which is really beautiful. It's about finding lighting darkness. I'm reading untimed by Glennon Doyle. I just heard her on a podcast on Bernie Browns podcast and I literally, I was listening to it when I was walking and I stopped and I cried, quite emotional. And that that was excellent. Have you listened to that Bernie brown podcast? Not yet, but I might listen to one of them. Yeah, I love that. And then I'm writing.
I'm writing a book called The mirror in the light by Hilary mantel, which is a novel historical novel her first two in the series when the man book
Surprise. It's about
Thomas Cromwell and Henry the Eighth. Probably not for everyone, but I'm super into it.
I love it. Baby, how can peoples sort of support the blow or sort of stay connected, whilst everything that's happening? Just joining all the fun and all the content that I'm spending hours creating?
on Instagram, we've got stories every every night from women in our community who is sharing how they're helping, how they are conquering their day with confidence. So check us out at the Australia and also have a look at my other business which is from the memo which is our baby a commerce site, which is all about making that whole experience and a lot more effortless. For expectant parents on the blow very quickly with my getting.
Could you do it with my hair like it always got to be longer hair to do it. We can totally do it. It just I didn't
fits with you paying 60 bucks for
it. What are we doing? 80% of the session a head massage? Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like it could be nice to do it because it is it's a volume, right? Is that what it does? Yeah. Yeah, we'll give you a Jewish we'll give you some volume and lab. I might have to set up a very short hair, right? Yeah.
We should do that. When you're back open. We can do a special and we can go in. We could do a live show while getting our hair done. Massage.
Okay, yeah, well
Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. Have you had any you haven't had a parking fine yet. You know, I read a Depo somewhere they've just
laid my lap. That's it. Yeah, I didn't say someone with high vis and did it is quite hard to be present when you are at work.
about getting fine, but
I can't afford it like $140 fine. I could talk your way out of it, I think. Definitely Yeah. Wouldn't be in the loading zone. Do not get out there more. Like double. This is a learning zone. This is a learning, signing, but don't get out of your car like a car. I'll just tell you to move on. Yeah. Yeah, right. Totally talk show. You can listen to us on all the podcast apps and you can watch us live as well. youtube.com forward slash the daily talk show. Thanks, Phoebe. Have a good one. Thanks, guys.