- March 15, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Thursday March 15 (Ep 43) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett. –
Self fulfilling prophecies, negotiating, unconscious bias and more!
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Josh’s YouTube Channel – http://youtube.com/joshjanssen
Tommy’s YouTube Channel – http://youtube.com/tommyjackett
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 43 Tommy jacket Tish yeah boy I wish we had sound effects for this year and well eventually we'll get there well we have like a soundboard and I can do it would be cool. Yeah,
it'd be a stat just fucking really work in them. You'll you outwork them. I outwork, can you put your fucking phone
sorry silent sorry guys the actually that's come off you computer has an idiot so just music The the computer
I didn't have my phone and so I've ended
up turning off messages on my computer because I just get a bit panicked around showing people your computer and then just having some message about being like hey you're still dealing with that fact head client or
or just even like the less they're just more about public displays of affection like me she Bobby from break something I embrace dies now I'm just thought whatever I got a family I love him today so I'm gonna be I'm gonna be tracking software and grow
i think i think there was a time where I was would have been a bit more fried but main Captain refactoring we drill into each other about like the loveliness This is my basement he's got a kid in a little baby that's newly signed matches Bodie couple months before but he's been with these Mrs. Fridays and wages like have you get enough brownie points to come at for be this weekend?
I think that the it's probably even less That and more the you left your fucking undies on the floors? Yeah, yeah, that's good ones. What you think it's like verse was actually live Exactly. Its relationships to change over time. It's
all that just initial set of what is a cool not grooming Really? grooming smiley, bad. That's a really bad cold. I was just being honest with the word that was on my mind. It's not the right way watching. Like that's the old school courting somebody. Oh,
and a little bit better than grooming. Yeah, you go to court for grooming.
griping, I think yeah. So you know, so what do you think of the the elements
i think it's it's you put in a lot more effort in the early days and and there's so much more magic flying around in that time
was first I think that we love and that's probably why having a kid is so cool. Because it's a way of like emulating you are simulating first again, you're just getting all these opportunities of like, there's not going to be another time that you have a kid that's going to be worth walking for the first time. Yeah,
it's amazing. I even think like for people who haven't been in relationships for quite some time. Yeah, and the ones that are single that have frequent hookups is like, there's a danger in that I've always thought this is because there's so much emotional explosiveness between you know, it's that chemistry for the time you meet someone out. Yeah, and you you know, you hook up with them you on that first date. And so there's like, that's a heightened level of consciousness like john those moments Yeah, that then it that stuff does dissipate. And
it's almost what you're describing is like diabetes type two diabetes literally like this. Where you've if the fact their insulin like they've had all of these spikes. Yeah, that it goes completely out of out of whack
a bit from being in long term relationship. Now you're in one. Yeah, I'd enough. It's a spectrum of selfie about you, you grow stronger. And it just is this completely different reward. It's a different it's a different game that you're playing to. Right. It goes from,
but I mean, the, the actual feeling of it. Yeah, the strength because relationship, like that's more rewarding, I think, than those initial really heightened emotional responses from meeting that person and locking eyes and kissing them for the first time. That all goes
Yeah, well, it's like at the beginning, you're doing like a payoff. Like a bit of a shower. It's like communicating how great you are, why you're a great partner. And then when you're at where, whereas it's like, we've gotten to a point where they, we know each other's flaws. And we're still deciding that we want to be on this journey. And that's like, that's super rewarding, right? Because then it's like, there's no hiding the truth. Yeah, and I think that that's when, like, I've definitely noticed a brain I have sort of merged closer together in the sense of what we're like personality wise to I think that obviously, we've talked about the proximity effect before, you know, the people you hang around, you can't get any sort of
any closer than you and I
said, and that's why I brought you here to like,
what's the what changes do you know, like, what's the pain points? What do you Where do you say it are moving in together, getting through the initial stage of that
and then it then it changing to be like this awesome awesomeness. It's not the codependency but it's like you do rely on each other. You've got each other's back. It's so nice. Like, I see myself the how restless I was as a single person and I feel like I just have got my shit together with my partner.
And I guess it's that feeling of being on the lookout. Yeah, always fucking so he's ready. Yeah, and I think I can have charged but all the time. Josh you got together with Bri when you're 16 yeah it was early eyes I bet I've seen it with friendships I've seen that where it's like I use the hashtag half chop on friends now I was always just like fucking ready to make a friend any minor it's just like I'd be like okay I've got these four things that we need for this friendship to work one of them ease we need to be following each other on Instagram
you just I feel and it happens so subconsciously yeah but I realized that I was like really seeking that out seeking out friendship and us thank you anymore like I and it's it means that when I make a friend it's always like a bit of a surprise my car that's cool that that worked out whereas I feel like I would
previously got if I was like okay
yeah just like say for instance if you go you go to an event we don't know many people in I feel like there's that heightened pressure of it's like I need to fit in I need to make friends and then that's sort of how you gauge what do you like doing by yourself
I like the
oh you don't drink so like going to
do you love drinking by myself I actually
don't mind having a beer at a bar by myself like if I was at the airport and I'm at that bar city I didn't do it a lot but if I was overseas I I like the I mean the opposite is and that's I do it a lot is have coffee but myself yeah
I think the being on applying where I'm not talking to anyone I really like like I've noticed that about me where someone sits next to me I used to probably be a little bit more open by literally go actually act super introverted. Yeah, I just don't like I was thinking about it yesterday. Literally did not look at the guy next to me. Now. It's funny because I was watching him emulate some of the shit that I was doing. Know What do you mean? Like I
i cuz you know, when you've traveled a bit you end up like having these little fucking hacks that you'll do right? So it's like I got a cup of water and what I used to always do was I would like put down the try and put the water there I'm like it's gonna take me fucking 10 seconds to drink this and then it's done. Yeah, so I get my cup of water he gets his he puts his sort of what's the facts that would try it out try it puts a try down and then I don't have to try to I like drink the water and then I just sort of squish it a little bit and put it on in the pocket in front of me and then you just same sort of slow like slowly put up you seek without even have putting on it and doing the same thing. I was like, Yeah, boy, I'm just like influencing Scott and even have to look at him.
But no, i think that i i definitely play that role constantly. Where it's just you being on my own. And it's like,
you're in a chaos, but it's quite a bit. You're having a quiet time. Yeah,
it's just the Yeah, the ability just like obviously it'd be better if other people went around to but reality but I think it's because I can switch off in those moments close my eyes have no distractions, but I never feel like I'm alone anymore with phones. Yeah, and that's probably why I've mentioned the plane because when I walked this morning and getting coffee for that I will be Walker and Instagram
Yeah, I've noticed when we're together me
to be routine gives Bray the shits.
But yeah, I'll um yeah, I was I was walking I was like, I'm not gonna go on my phone. But then I realized halfway through I'm like, to be fair, I'm like listening to a YouTube video right now. Through my phone on my headphones. Like I'm not being present at all. Yeah, yeah,
the the Instagram thing is
just switching off I definitely don't do enough of it. And I mean, in the car I'm listening I'm calling people it's like you almost want to distract yourself or driving
distract yourself from your own voice I think too like I will be listening to stuff to give give me focus. One thing that I heard which was in that habits book, not essential ism. But the one like better than before,
it's like about replacing I think it was in that book around like replacing habits. So if you go to do something that you don't want to be doing so negative type stuff
actually know who was a pinch yourself, no, jump into. So I know it was I know where I heard it from. I was watching a Seth Godin video last night. It's got like three letters. It's like a type of therapy. But essentially, what they get you to do is say, for instance, if you are constantly looking at something online, like say, for instance, like can looking at Instagram, you want to look at Instagram last, right? Every time that you have that moment, you need to replace it with something else, you need to retrain and so for me at the moment I've gotten some of those sort of things that I would consider slightly negative habits and I'll replace them with other ones for instance, it's not the best habit habits which at the moment is when I'm thinking about say going on Instagram I will open up new york times I'll read an article I realized that that still fucking The news is the worst but it's that first it's it is that
it's that thing of like when you get into line somewhere opening up like I books actually reading a few paragraphs or
just chipping away at that it's, it's it's like the video about the robot coffee machine. That's like a legit robot arm making coffee in first time you go there, you kind of look at it. But most people end up just being on their phones. Yeah, then it's just robot making coffee by itself without the attention so another Yeah, it's weird. At least in a coffee shop. You get the interaction but I was talking to my friend yesterday PK he's he's an absolute legend. And I called him about some some business advice around hiring someone. Yeah. And we kind of just got talking and went away from the business if he asked about Bodie boy was and he says, with with, so my son's middle name is Valentine. He was born on Valentine's Day. 2017. So we thought and we we called him Bodie, Valentine jacket with the surname jacket. And he said, pick me Fuck, it's a self fulfilling prophecy with that night. And I was thinking about, as I said to him, Do you recognize anything in that around names? Yeah, in a second, are you It's such a rockstar name, or it's like, you know, does it? Is there any merit to it? What do you recommend around that same way? I mean, there's
in the book outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. They talk about
hockey players, I believe in Canada, essentially, it's like 80% of hockey players were born in life based three months. Yeah,
I've read that.
And the reason it is is because it's like those kids tend to be tola, their order for their age group. Yeah, they get more sort of attention this stronger they get they get more sort of coach time which leads to them being able to play professionally there's also a bunch of there was a was a cold brain forgot the name of the podcast, Scott Brian in the title, but they talk about they didn't episode around how
someone has the same name as you or birthday. We naturally like them more interesting. And we connect we we create these connections that we don't even know that we're doing so there's a good chance that if someone's got a birthday that's close to you, you tend to like the more interesting and so what about bodies' name do you think? I mean? Just stand Damn. I think absolutely. Yeah, I think that it's, um, yeah, definitely got that vibe. I think that that's like, to be honest, that's a problem that we're seeing in regards to that unconscious bias thing when it's like, and we when we talk about privilege, if we actually take a moment to think about that for a moment. How much that might influence. Bodie. Imagine if you are a someone who's got an accent or who has a name that specifically from a country I know that I've caught myself in moments where I heard an accent and doing a deal with someone and I was I thought, okay, I put them in a bit of a box. I'm like, okay, culturally, this is how they negotiate. So I'm gonna be ready for this when I was selling I don't didn't tell you this when I sold my first thing on Gumtree. That's right
put it on. Put this mixer up for 800 bucks which was a decent amount of coin because I probably paid like 1100 bucks from it like three and a bit years ago so it's like it's that's that's a good chunk coin. If I was to get that anyway, the guy I had someone office 650 debating a pain in the ass. This one guy called up I said, 5:50am I'm not know why. And he's like, are the most I could do is 600. Mike. I contacted the guy who said 650. And he was like, oh, here's the mixer. Got a case has got this hard basket. This fucking idiot. Oh, yeah. I was like, Fuck off. So I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna call up this other guy. Yes. I
if you're going to be easy, and you can come now I'll sell it for 600. So I did that. He comes. He's with us. My
they. I just have the I'm holding it at the at the front. They came like a 40 minutes away from 40 minutes away. And they they said how do we know it's working? Like, okay, that's a fair question. So I'm like, oh, let's just go into my, like, apartment lobby. And we'll plug it in. And they're like, Okay, and so does it got a case? I'm like, No, it doesn't have case. Like I said, they didn't have a case. I just said straightaway. I might look and I only want to do this. If it was gonna be easy. It all works. And they're like, I can I know, I go. When did you buy? It was like, you know, a few years ago or whatever. Like, okay, I like that. Okay. 550.
I'm like, now I feel like we've got we've got 550
solid bag. And he was like,
Oh, well, that's fine. I just don't need to sell it now. So yeah, I said, because they had no you
guys if they've gone for driven 40 minutes. Yeah. Why she fucking man. So. Right. And the thing is that I was asked him like, what, what are you guys doing with the mixer? I'm like, you like doing a podcast? And like, Yeah, something like that. What does that mean? Well, what my vibe was that they're probably flipping this shit. So they're like, maybe they could get 700 sounds like that. Yeah. Something like that was just a such a weird fucking respond. Ease. That's, it's nothing like that. Yeah, it's something like that. So you guys even know what the fuck you're on about. But anyway, so I am. He had 550. And they had their hands on at this point. They had the mixer, I just went to grab it. I'm like, Oh, look, as I said, I just wanted to make it as simple as possible. But 600 was the last guy. So you know, have a nice day, basically. Yeah. And then the guy pulls out the other 50. Please take he says, I fucking hate that shit. I've done the same. But it's as in I've been the, the fact is, you had this on the we talked about this on the podcast when you're selling your car for scraps. Oh, yeah, that cheeky and the guy who like what was it had a few hundred bucks or whatever, on the thing. And then he tried to. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, but that's negotiation. It's, it's hard. So you, but you're, I know your mindset behind that. You're just like, not giving a shit. You deal with all these other idiot. So you'd almost pre had those feelings before, and then totally form the, the new field or the new flavor around like, well, if he doesn't give me 600. I'm not fucking silly. Well, the
thing is that I think there's a few elements at play. One of them is the person who cares less when Yes, right? Because I was happy to be like, I didn't. In fact, I haven't driven here to drop it off. I didn't give a fuck if you've just wasted your time. So there's, there's there's that case. But the other thing about negotiation to you said there was a case with no, there was no, no.
But the other thing is, that negotiation isn't just about like, state, like, people will think that what it is, is, it's like standing by you say a price. I say a price we made in the middle, stuff like that. It's called anchoring. Right. So it's like by me saying a price. Initially, I'm anchoring in that price. So $800 and so that people can sort of do their math and say, are, you know, 150 or $150 less a lot. So I think, but the best negotiation doesn't necessarily just work that way. What people I think underestimate what I've read about is compromise, like the Richard Branson talks about him, the best negotiation is coming up with a mutually beneficial result. Yeah, not a result. The tips in your favor? Yeah, and this is, and this is the thing that it's constantly missed, like, people that you will deal with, where it's like, hang on, you are literally just fighting for you to get the cheapest thing, the best thing at the cheapest price. And that's not that's not what it's about. So, like, I'm always talking about, okay, well, what's, how can we make this beneficial for both of us, because Richard Branson's point is it's like he'll end up working with people again. And if he's been fucking fair about it. It's a lot different to pay. So it's like jesting, like you don't want to know John's
coming to me. But if you don't, someone doesn't have to come off the fact and horse someone doesn't have to be their own boss. Isn't that Jesse's? Like,
I want to get more get going.
Right? Fucking let me just type in Jasper just showed. You know what you're seeing. Is that I think
is it the medieval shit What about crown castle? Sure they do. But yeah, sticks
sticks. Yeah, so it's like the two horses coming at each other with the knots on the horses with the stick Yeah, and someone comes off and that person's the loser and society in the negotiation. It's it could be more detrimental to have the loser that walks away with less money. And you've you've you've come away with saving all this cash. And so you're the winner. But when evening quoting from for business. Yeah, I think what you're what you said about mutual mutually beneficial, yes, I'd like I created a job yesterday, that basically was enough money for my time, and to bring in some people to help with it. Yeah, to give them a really solid product that wasn't massively over budget.
And that's the thing like, I'm always fine with quoting when I can see the value in the in the client and the benefit in the client. And whenever I've gone off that, where I'm like, this client wants this thing, but I don't actually necessarily think it's beneficial, but they want it and they're going to spend the money, so I'll do it anyway. Like, they've always ended up being a cluster Fuck, because they've always sort of misinterpreted the value and then being disappointed. So only enter into a project. Now, if I can see if I can make the connections and say this is the value and make it a fair transaction.
Let's bring it back to self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, so the I kind of had an idea what it meant, and I just looked at the remaining self fulfilling prophecy is when a person unknowingly causes a prediction to come true, due to the simple fact that he or she accepts it to come true. In other words, and expectation about a subject such as a person or event can affect our behavior towards that subject, which causes the expectation to be realized. Yeah,
so and you said before fake it's like, fake, it may make it or like, I also think that it plays into that unconscious bias really well. Because the thing is, it's like if you're ready. Say, for instance, if you're like attractive people attacking egomaniacs and idiots, you will find, anytime you meet them, you'll find a reason to fucking hate someone. It's very easy to work that out. So I think that I always try and watch myself when I'm thinking about these types of things. Because I'm like, I might actually influence I might just put off that vibe. I might be looking out for a problem when there's not a problem that's interesting. I
hadn't heard of this a self defeating prophecy self to us or a self destroying prophecy is the complimentary opposite of a self fulfilling prophecy, a prediction that prevents what it predicts from happening, what is also known as the prophets dilemma. A self defeating prophecy can be the result of rebellion to the prediction
interesting. So that could be said, For me, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy is you it's almost a little bit before faking it till you make it you you almost have to believe it. It's like okay, maybe he is a self fulfilling prophecy, your belief that you will be successful enough and make money so you're not hot, not crazy. Worried about money now. Yeah. And I feel the same way too. And so maybe that and I totally believe that
the thing is self fulfilling prophecy, but give you like a real world example. It's when I lose weight, I will be happier, right? And the thing that if you to deconstruct it, where it's like, if I lose weight, and I feel better about myself, and then all of a sudden, it removes all of this internal voice, I have more confidence, oh, sounds or project all of these things like so many of the things that we experience and more about what we're projecting rather than, like, why is it that everyone seems to be a can't when we're in a bad mood? Yeah, it's just It's its own self fulfilling prophecy. It's like I like when I am when I'm in a bad mood and I'm driving dickhead seem to always be out on the road. But then I catch myself in moments where I'm in a good mood. And I'll let who are normally consider an absolute idiot for like, you know, how they driving, I'll just let them in. And I won't be a problem. Yeah, it's
not. So you're putting out and you getting that back? Yeah.
And is that what you're putting? It can't exactly. Well, the other thing too, is, it's like if we realized this, and this was to was talking about what Seth garden was talking about, which is, like these thought patterns, we can, if we note if we can realize that triggers, we can we can identify them. And we can actually, like, switch it up, right? So it's like, it could be as simple as, if you're in a situation where you're frustrated with customer service, you have to smile, what happened. Yeah, rather than getting mad, you just need to smile and that physical, he didn't talk about this, but I'm sort of, yeah, getting getting going from a bunch of different sort of theories, all of a sudden, you smell you can change a moment like that. And you can potentially get some more perspective and you're able to,
you know, change, change move. Well, I
mean, there's a few things of that
the was it physiology changes psychology. So actually, smiling is on the way to feeling Yeah, that emotion I was what smiling means, you know, happy I smile heap, you actually feel nice smile at people. They smile back at a woman in the gym. One say you're always smiling. I was like, Fuck, is that a bad thing? Yeah.
Are you probably being a bit of a crepe now?
No. But it's, it's definitely you can get real fucking cynical. And you can see them from a model. Like, one of the things that I've been noticing is hanging out with different types of people. And I definitely put them in boxes. And it can serve me in some regards, because I know how to speak to them. So there's one type of archetype, which is an older dude, who, whatever, for whatever reason, they've got a bit of a complex, they tend to be sort of talk about money a lot. They're very cynical, they're sort of, yeah, and they, they've driven by ego. So there's a real effort that I always make to, like, Oh, geez, oh, you wouldn't fact can ever do that. Like, you're not an idiot. Like that person. You know, it's the language that you start to use to sort of position and you can see there and it's, it comes from a gross place, which is like this desire of becoming law fact, right? I know that the thing that you want to hear right now
is that isn't this and I'll give it to, but he always gives you a sense of power. I think it's like, and it's not right. I feel like I've done it before. But we obviously that's mad at them. Because you know, exactly their communication style. Yeah. But it's like when people use that for the for the wrong reason. Well, you
say, the insecurities in people, right? And I think that probably an immature approach. And what I've done previously, you see the insecurity and you run to it.
But what I tend to do is I say, the insecurity and then I work with it, I'm like, Okay, well, like if we, if we're working out that what they're really, you know, if you're on set with someone, and they saying all of these things, which is like, it's like the people who are really confident that it's telling you they're confident, right, because they just fucking they've got swagger, they're confident they sorted if you've got someone who's constantly talking about the things they're doing and stuff like that, or trying to justify certain things it straightaway gives you a position but it's powerful because then you can project that back onto them so you can say man that's if I can cook like as my desire in those moments is just like a cool bro like real cool story is no waiver But what happens if you do the opposite? What happens if you say like oh, that's super really you know that person what are they like a new but you you're stroking their ego Yeah. But it's I think that we can't expect people are going to be awakened or health have some sort of phenomenal self awareness within the moment that we're having conversation. So it's probably best for us to adapt to be able to get to, to be able to work together and make things happen. So
have you had this happen to you? Do you think someone's stroke? Yeah, like,
there's definitely moments where I'm like, it only comes out when people are being too disconnected from what they normally like. So you can tell when someone or I like to think anyway, that I've got an okay. judgment in working out when someone is just saying something to make me happy. Yeah, it normally only comes out when I see them
doing that to someone else. Or I'm so for instance, I've worked with people where you'll see them being like, I can't believe it's fucking person's done this, blah, blah, blah. And then you'll see them talking to them. And they're all lovely, and they're saying all these things. So then you sort of create this connection, like, okay, fake, they're acting this way to them. And so then I'll always have that and I'll, I feel like a lot of people can't recognize that in themselves. That pride. I've realized that doing it, doing it and you just sort of to what do you think? Do you think I because I in my head, I don't like to order people that are fucking, they'll
say something like, bro. How I fucking idiots. Yeah, behind their back. Yeah, it's like, not that I don't have I don't have to be calling the fucking idiot if I think they're fucking up to the head. The head? Yeah.
Well, I think the thing it's also it, you know what the thing is, it comes down to respect when you and I first started hanging out is
that we didn't have that respect. We didn't have the mutual mutual respect built up. So I always got the sense of I'm like, okay, Tommy knows that I know a little bit of this tech technicals stuff. But you you didn't. I don't think when we were first hanging out. You really understood my business interests, or that sort of thing. I and maybe that's my own insecurities. Your
hair. Yeah, I actually wasn't hanging out with you. Yeah,
well, that wasn't that was even pray hanging out, right? Yeah. Oh, let's catch up for coffee and tea. Putting worth on your, your sort of achievement. And me and me. But. And I never didn't put words on that, because I just didn't know. So I didn't know what I mean. I think it's an action thing, right? So like, if you go back to. And this happens. It's like watching the minimalists a couple of nights ago. And Sydney they'll talk they had someone without like that was saying that they always get used. And then I call one good thing is that it means that you actually have some value to get your other get us yeah, if you can bring value and that I guess he's one of the things where it's like, our relationship at the beginning was a little bit transactional in the sense that if you because I remember going back, I'm like, what was Tommy and my first conversations? And if you think about it, like animation ever done that is with a relationship, they're doing it for content. But the thing is that what you realize it's like, actually, at the beginning, it's all this, like serendipity. But it's very much like, Hey, man, Can I Can we just have a chat about this? Or what would you do in this scenario, like, unless it makes complete sense, because especially as you become adults, it's like, that's the only way that you're able to create that and then you start to understand it starts in this sort of transactional space, and then it slowly gets into a point where it's actually like, Oh, no, I like hanging out with us. Yeah,
I mean, friendships take time, and how they build it could be from that or it could be from working together is, you know, you know, competing or so. It's, it's weird how relationships evolve. I like it. It's it's really interesting when you like fact that is nice. Look at the friendship I forms from that little moment meeting. Yeah, you know, like it I love that. I love that about life. Yeah,
it is. And it's, um, I think that the only way that you can make it work is having that happiness and sort of security in yourself to be able to like let people in properly I think you need to be authentic and you need to be you need to be comfortable where you're at because if you don't even know yourself, then you don't know what you're projecting and if you don't know what you're projecting, you actually don't have any self awareness of how other people see yeah once you have all that data and it becomes a little bit easier I think anyway it's the daily talk show everyone you can send us an email we haven't gotten any today Michelle Michelle did tell me that the package has been picked up but I think that just means that it's at the P o box because you
haven't got anything I literally I haven't worked and I haven't been able to leave the house good I've been working and you can't tomorrow so let's do it Monday let's see if we can get it Monday or Tuesday or Monday
yeah we were will be able to get it and check it out Michelle I think it must be just hang in there hopefully it's it's gonna be okay and feel free to send us an email anytime hi at the daily talk show we've had emails from be Mac from Jody some random
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