- March 21, 2019
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we’re joined by Cyan Ta’eed. Cyan is the co-founder of Envato, and the founder of Hey Tiger, a social enterprise focused on helping cocoa farming communities in West Africa. Cyan was awarded Telstra’s Victorian Business Woman of the Year and EY’s Entrepreneur of the Year in 2015.
Going from Envato to Hey Tiger
Product and brand ethics
Comfort zones and pressure
Going to the psychologist
Balancing not giving a f*ck and kindness
The next steps for Hey Tiger
Hey Tiger on Instagram:
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A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
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Daily Talk Show Episode 300 and ice. How are we? Science aid? building? How are you? Good. How are you? Yeah, very good. Welcome to the show.
Thank you. It's funny to finally be on here yet. So much time of listening you so have you watched because it's a different It looks like a different thing like it's a different world since I've listened on Apple podcasts. Okay,
now you've transported into our set here.
I have I have it's very professional. Have
you given us five stars yet? Or no?
I'm sorry. I'll do that when I get home. You like an Uber driver Josh
always wanting to five?
Little bit, lady, isn't it? I can be Navy with you.
Yeah, he can't be we know each other. Well, yeah, exactly.
TJ science aid. What do you know of science? Well, other than how you speak so highly of inverter and the times I've spent in Nevada, which I've never seen you there, but you one of the founders alongside your husband and a friend and I went down a rabbit whole last night of watching some of your old videos the moments of when you first started this and it's interesting to sort of understand where you guys are at now I used in vivo before I even knew Josh
I was thinking of downloading some
music and all that stuff. But then sort of to see the journey you've gone on you wouldn't know. I mean, you're seeing this online business, but you're not sort of getting engaged with it and I really do hope today we can explore a bunch of that stuff, which it's it's so crazy. We've we've come from the garage of studying vida what I mean Josh and I was speaking yesterday about where we're at on our journey, which is the very start and there's a time where we're like
we're a bit embarrassed about where we're at but we know where we want to go
I made TJ light a candle before you came into the office because I just said the office fucking stinks da con doesn't work very well we're having siren over
is either light the candle blame it on Mr. 97
It doesn't smell it all in here actually came in and I was like wow, this is a cool space all right
it's got it lanes towards grunge Collingwood that that's what we're that's all we can hope for. I guess
See, the interesting thing and watching Josh journey is I just feel like he's gotten cooler and cooler as he's gotten older. He's found his personal style. He's just like,
what it's very basic the style though it's just like k me up very.
You just super cool these days. Whereas I feel like you were cool when I when I met you personality wise, but your personal style you want is like comfortable in your own skin? Yeah, I
think comfort definitely. How? How much have you felt that you've developed from a style point of view and just a comfort of being yourself?
Me? Yeah. Um, I think I felt like for a long time, because inertia was growing really quickly. And you needed to manage all these people. And you need to seem like you knew what you were doing that I often felt like I had to kind of play a role as opposed to just being me. Yeah. And so I'm, as I get, I'm trying to just be me more and call us always said to me, like, I'd get super stressed out before I'd go do like hard panels or speaking engagements with intimidating people. On a high panel today, by the way, I'm on a
And cola. So inside me, it's okay. If you don't know anything, you can only be you. It's okay. If you don't know everything, probably if I didn't know anything, it would be a problem. But it's okay. If you don't know everything. You can only be you. And it's all right to have strengths. And so right have weaknesses. I feel like I've gotten more comfortable with that, as times,
I heard a great line recently, hindsight is crystal clear. And so you know where you're at now looking back to that time of in the garage, it's like where we're in the garage, essentially. But how much difference in where you're thinking is that now verse Then, has there been a heap of shifting? Or is it you know, that still same person from the garage with
your hobby in a best I know, I feel like I'm a completely different person. And to be clear, our garage was a lot less impressive, but this is this is
way more impressive? Um, look, I think he really evolved a lot over time. And I think what's interesting about entrepreneurship or about what you know about in its broader sense, so I would count what the two of you are doing is entrepreneurship. What's interesting about it is that you grow and you change, and you evolve very quickly. It's like accelerated learning. And it is kind of like, all right, well, really the exercises I'm trying to solve these really meaty, difficult problems to solve. I'm going to stretch myself to my absolute limit in order to see if I can actually do it on on along the way. You learn a lot about yourself.
I mean, you've lost the hat Josh, I saw in some of the videos that you made when you worked in Votto with side. Yeah, you had the backwards cap on. Yeah, I think I was going through a stage of Well, I think my head like we were mentioning before the show about my hair
segment. It's got that vibe, but you know, like, we've got insecurities. To me my insecurities in my hair in my scalp. I think I've got a very sort of the grade Scout, t grades.
I think, Tommy, you've got a very good amount of hair at the end if you want because Tommy's got a malice at the mind. Well, I'm growing a full man band. So it's just at a point where it's just it's very annoying. Can you show what it's looking like? Show the back? It's hard. Yes. It's a real party at the back there
can always be worse. It could be worse. Look at this. So I think the definitely I was self conscious about my scalp and my and so I would wear a hat. Yeah, the problem is that it feels like it's even a hat is even worse because it doesn't have time to breathe and it just gets worried about
your scalp. Are you worried about the fact you bolding?
may be a bit of both and actually the boating doesn't bother me and Okay, I prefer to completely shave at the end of the show. trip that I did. I shaved all my hair. And Bry was like not happy about Oh
really? Yes. I love it. Yes. I love a shaved head. Well, you're happy has a shaved head. Love it. Yeah, I and you know, like kind of all the shaved head men.
No, I like I'm like Bruce Willis on the right. Yeah. And you know, like shaved heads. I like a shaved head. And I have a theory, men with shaved heads really like mate because I have a lot of hair. So I have a theory. It's like the subconscious trying to kind of even out the like, gene pool.
Yeah, well, maybe that's even plays into like, I like I was saying how I like your eyebrows.
Exactly. So maybe that's part of it, too, is like, yeah, someone who doesn't have much of a brow. That's what even like Mr. 97, who we've had. He's been on the dating scene and what sort of thing I've been picking people where I'm like, I think should be great for you or not something but in some cases, maybe I think that maybe Mason looks too much like that. Like he'll be like not as into one person or another person. And maybe we're attracted to like the opposite.
Yeah, I think so. We all have our types. Yeah.
What do you think? 97 I've wanted to spring is
my son's Mr. 97. He's got bamboo here. That's not going anywhere. Yeah, it's good. It's a bamboo. Like, you should see it. Like we realize it
could go up into a just fro. Yeah, yeah. And that's what he's got. That's what he's equipped with over there. Anyway, moving, moving on from the hair stuff. Because I know we could spend a lot of time Sydney vs. Melbourne. You you would live in like when it all started. You went to you were living in Sydney. Yeah. Why did you decide to go to Melbourne? And do you ever have, like friends who did the move from Sydney to Melbourne and sort of spend a lot of their life especially in winter, complaining about I should be in Sydney right now.
I miss the weather and the beaches. I really do everything else and obviously my family and my good friends but everything else I love about I think Melbourne is a far superior city. I think it's a friendliest city. I really do people in Melbourne a friendly up and they are in Sydney. People in Sydney, a lovely, but there's just a warmth that you get from strangers in Melbourne that I've just noticed you don't get in Sydney and I think in Melbourne. What I really love about it is that it's cool to care. It's cool to be obsessive about what you do. Yeah. which I don't think is cool in Sydney. I think in Sydney, it's a bit less about you don't want to try too hard and Sydney
would definitely not go well in Sydney.
My wife's from Sydney, I grew up here. I moved to Sydney. And I just, I mean that's a place that like Atlassian the founder leaves there is it has a feel about it like New York or London like big city. What in from a business point of view, Melbourne. What's the advantages of having the company run out of Melbourne?
Well, look, I think, you know, we we ended up in Melbourne by accident. So we had this amazing day we were working with at the beginning of in Bartow to build it and then he moved back to Melbourne while we were traveling overseas. So after in Bartow kind of turned into kind of kind of being able to pass salary, we traveled for 18 months and worked on it while we traveled which was really fun. But in the meantime, this Dave he moved back to Melbourne to be closer to his family and then he was like oh, I kind of need some help and we're like Well hi you know once just I want to be friends yeah kind of a bit more help hire another one of your friends. And then we got a phone call going look you've got an office
can you come back you probably should be at around this thing. So we came back and we thought well we'll settle here for now it'll be a fun adventure and now we've got two businesses here and I kids are in school and we're here it's just we didn't think it through I'm glad it worked out Yeah, really did not think through the gravity of that decision.
Yeah, to the first the first employee the actual jump of paying someone's like salary super all of that sort of stuff. Was that a big decision to the field like one at a time?
I know we just needed help we couldn't build we couldn't build you know back then it was the first product was flashed in which I was a terrible name
but it was it Adobe actually sent a cease and desist or what was the because it changed from flashed into active den so yeah, sold flash assets. What was the what was the catalyst for changing the name
Adobe sent a cease and desist? Yeah, but even look, it was a terrible brand name. It was a shocking brand name. And I remember I have this memory of you know, having this check to flashed in and going into the bank and the teller going flushed and what are you doing? I said all we have an online an online business and she thought it was a porn site.
Flash flash. Yeah. Well,
yeah. I'm so dodgy. She looked at me like she was appalled by me. And, and I didn't quite know how to explain it. It was super awkward. But you know, I've gotten a bit better at branding over time. But yeah, it was not a great not a great brand name.
Do it feels like you wouldn't call us a very understated with, you know, the amount of success you've had, versus how you walk in the world. You're not super flashy. From a brand level that that's when I went on that rabbit hole. That's where I was like, seeing the scale of how many people you've, you know, shared money with, you know, that your businesses allow people to flourish in their world, in their lives around the world. Like that's the undecided part that I mean, I don't know how much you wanting to just shout that around. I think you probably what I would
like as soon as as soon as that happens. But the thing is, I feel like I've changed perspectives based on and just remember, once
we were hanging out and then I'm like, Okay, I'm off and I was like waiting for my Uber and you were like going off to the tram
just gave a real perspective into what I maybe I should do. When was last time you were on a trip. Our travelers give me anxiety. So I just sort of avoid them. I like the sound of trends like being outside of like, at where we live now. Nice. Smith straight, you can hear the trams dry like going past at night. It sounds awesome. And I hear like the BBB like all the closing doors and stuff. But the idea of being in it and just like understanding the roots. I think if I understood the roots, do you still use the trend? Yeah,
I take the train to and from work every day.
Really? Yeah. So yeah, I think that's right. I sometimes get the bus up to where we are. It's just one route one bus when if you taking the bus to you when you drive.
The other way I legit now you're doing it quite a bit before we started our business. Mr. 97 catches the bus every day. So if anyone's getting the prize, it should be missing. Nice. Bye. Have you have you ever had I feel like one of the benefits of being undecided? is when you want to flex account so someone's like in a situation where people care about that thing. Yeah, like they care about status. I care about success entrepreneurship. Have there been any moments where someone's treated you like a bit of shit or whatever? And then even though it's uncomfortable to do because you don't want to have you value in that Yeah, but you've been able to flex it and made them like me like Haha, don't think about that shit. Cuz like, have you ever had
to pay attention to me now? Yeah, like, you know, you do have situations where people maybe aren't being that nice. I mean, you and I had a situation once where we were trying to hire an advertising agency. And they kept on talking he was sitting at the head of the table just randomly and they kept on pitching to you it was
it was a bad
Real Presence maybe it was the snapback hat that got them
throughout the whole meeting, the like the guy is working for the lead guy is going like you know
talked to her she's you know, she's the boss.
And he just couldn't stop pitching to you. You are a guy at the title even though you so much younger than me and he knew logically that I was the person who was the decision maker just emotionally it was do you think it's unconscious to him? No. totally unconscious. I don't think he intentionally did it at all. Yeah,
but I think he was wearing I think what I remember him he was wearing one of those hats like that my pie you still wear which I really respect you know, though
Yes. Was he wearing one of those was wearing one of those hats? Yes, he was he was a cool guy. Yeah, um, no But to answer your question you know I did a this this thing lifestyles and inventory. Call this is always teasing me I say inventory Am I just can't stop doing it. Yeah.
It's just one of those words in my mind, I think cuz I learned to spell it that way when I was in like young inventory. Anyway.
So I bossiness.
So yeah, it's basically this thing. And it kind of has this spectrum of eight different qualities you might have and what percentage in terms of your leadership style Yeah, I'm, in fact, extremely competitive. I really, I'm an extremely competitive human. And I think that because I don't like that about myself. I try very hard not to appear competitive. So I don't tell people about my work stuff. Because I feel like it kind of would be competitive, which I think it's a really unappealing and unpleasant quality. But
is it more an unpleasant quality to hide it? Or because I do remember?
Because it was going to have a tail? Well, how about this my, one of my best friends in school, we sort of drifted apart and you nine, but he would say to me is like I am and I haven't studied for the test at all haven't studied yet. Man, it's gonna be sorry. hard, right? And so I would be like, yeah, I haven't studied it, and I wouldn't study. And then he would end up getting an A, and I would get like a see adequately because he was secretly studying. And not only that, but he also had him and I were both fat kids. And we both had white issues. And when we would go, when I go to his house and stay over, he would give me soft drink. And then he wouldn't drink any.
Well, that's just for enemy territory.
I don't feel like that's the same. I would never do that to someone.
What do you how do
you do send a lot of chocolate home for you?
Yeah, well, people down to understand that the chocolate thing if you're new to science hate, right? Well, they probably know the brand. Hey, Tiger, if you're in Melbourne, but how did you go from having invite Oh, one of the biggest online digital marketplaces, to deciding to be chocolate pusher.
Um, so I've been doing in Bartow for 14 years. And while it was still really interesting, and I still, you know, enjoyed it a great deal and feel very attached to it. What you do day to day in a company of, you know, 500 people plus is very different to what you do in a startup. So I was, you know, doing a lot of things which were interesting, from a point of view of, can I do this, it's challenging, and it's, you know, useful for the business, but it wasn't stuff that I was like, I love this. I love early stage startup, I find that really interesting. I love things which are visually creative and exciting.
What feels like early stage for you like when I came into the business, that would have been what 2013 or something around that time? How did that you were I think there were, you're hiring 17 new roles. It was the you had just moved into the new king straight office. Where did that feel like to you in regards to startup phase,
I still felt like that was a bit scrappy, which I think I find it find a bit scrappy, interesting, you've just got to kind of figure that out. You can't hire specialists for everything. So stuff you and I did. We did heaps of stuff together and Votto, which was really, I'd be like, our I would just got to figure this out. Yeah. And I enjoyed that.
Because it's also it's also, well, I think it treats employees like they're like, I felt like it was my business, like I was able to like hustle with things and make things happen and make decisions and move quickly. And I think that it was, all of a sudden, you have so much more of a vested interest when you're doing it.
You're very entrepreneurial, though. You're very entrepreneurial. So people I found either really lock working for me because they're very entrepreneurial. And I given them a space to be really like that. Or they want to know exactly what they have to do every day. And then they hate working for me.
So how did you get to Hi, Tiger, sorry,
oh, sorry. That was me.
Um, what I what I, you know, so invited, the core value is when the community succeeds, we succeed, there's a really heavy focus on impact. So the focus in the business is less on revenue for the business and sell itself. And although you know, we bet you need to pay attention to that. But in terms of what our focuses, it's how can we get to $1 billion of community earnings on our marketplace, and we're getting, you know, that should be fairly soon that we get that which is really exciting.
So the focus really is around the community impacting the community,
which I find really exciting. I also think that there's a, you know, a lot of people say, don't talk about luck with, you know, business success, and yada, yada. And I agree with that, you've got to make your own luck. But also, I've seen so many startup founders now where the market just hasn't gone their way a big competitor came to get them whatever it might be. The fact that we were able to bootstrapping bajo, get it to the point where it was large enough that it was first to market in a variety of different areas. And that still to this day, no big competitors come after us. He's like a one in a billion type of thing that occurred,
what is bootstrapped mean to you? And we get what does that actually look like? Is it like, pulling your own savings is asking friends, like parents for cash, using credit cards, what is the reality of bootstrap,
we did all those things. So we used all of our savings. And we worked doing freelance every day during business hours and the evenings. And on the weekends, we worked on, you know, developing this business. And we we borrowed 15 k from call us as parents, we maxed out our credit cards, and we ended up living in my parents basement. What's How much is this startup culture
in today? 2019 change from you know that getting venture capital seems popular right now. And you know, taking someone said, taking a risk with someone else's money versus doing it itself, how much has it actually changed from 14? And that seems more seems more glamorous to them? What like, yeah, borrowing money, money off mom and dad, and using credit card like, that sounds way less sexy. We've got some serious, but the thing is, like, you know,
you it's great social proof, if you get that funding. On the other hand, you are not to put all VCs in one basket, but you're dealing with people who want a return on investment very quickly. And a commercial return generally, is the only focus. Was it like anything else.
14 years ago, was it actually a thing like a popular thing, because I'm sure there's, you know, people like Mr. 9719 coming out of school guy on a Sunday on a VC funding, because they're hearing these people preach about it.
Um, there were a couple of VCs in the US that showed a bit of interest, once we were kind of, you know, probably, you know, like, kind of getting a little bit bigger. But it really wasn't the same culturally, at all, there really wasn't a startup culture, it wasn't a startup community that we were aware of any way any, any way, we wouldn't even know have known how to get funding or where to get it. If we, you know, like if we'd wanted it. And I think you do feel like you are you can't control everything you're doing once you sort of take someone else's money, and they expect to get that money and more back. So we just decided just to sort of keep investing in it. We didn't take a salary for a couple of years, we just kind of really decided just to build it organically, which now I'm so happy we did that. Yeah. But I have to say, there's no way like it was like the Wild West. At that point, there was such a huge amount of land to grab. It isn't that way anymore. Anything you want to launch, you're probably dealing with a couple of competitors. And you need some more money to do that. I heard you talk a lot in some, you know, the videos
about holes in the market? Yeah. Is it just less holes now? Or do we need to be more creative? The whole on the whole?
Yeah. I think um, yeah, look, I think that, you know, there was just the fact that we were able to be first to market in so many different areas, is, you know, it's really saying something in that period of time, there's still plenty, there's always going to be plenty of opportunity for somebody entrepreneurial, there's, you know, new technology coming along this, you know, innovation, when it comes down to it, you're effectively just solving a problem. And generally, it's a good idea, you know, to do something which is solving a problem you yourself as experienced, because you're going to be really good at solving that problem. Because you feel it. But, you know, like, I think they still stuck around. But I do think it's very different in that there's just a lot more players, potentially very, you know, very close to you.
Do you think that behind every problem there is financial reward. So say for us with the daily talk show, we're trying to build this show up? We're trying to provide something unique? Could we be itching a problem, like itching a problem providing a solution to that problem, but maybe no one's willing to actually, like, pay for the problem to be fixed?
I think if you're doing really great work, and the and the doing is every day brings you some sort of joy and fulfillment, and you can earn a living doing that, then I think that that's a amazing thing. Yeah, nothing, you know, different things are going to scale to a different degree. You might find even that it doesn't have a financial reward. But it it really, you know, you are it isn't. This sounds really like serious, but almost like an act of service, to some degree, like you're serving the people around you by providing this thing which entertains them makes them feel connected, whatever it might be. So I yeah, I don't think you can go great. Well, anything I do, which I really like and do really well is going to make me millions of dollars, boss. You know, I think he can, I hope and I'd love to I love the concept that you can have a work life which you're passionate about.
Yeah. And do you think that with the direction that you're going and we were involved? I was? Is that a re? Is that you re structuring your life? So? Or is it the competitive so I coming out saying I need to do this again? Like we did it? I've we've done it all before. And now it's like, I want to go out and do it again.
Do you think it was intimidating? Because you do think well, investors nice and comfortable? I have you know Josh at the head of the table? Exactly. I have, you know, like a better way of putting a degree of status from investor and if I do something new, and it's a flop Boy, that's going to be a bit embarrassing, especially is call us you know, first time round my husband, my co founder, if Hey tiger and really like been a bit of an embarrassing disaster, it would have been like, Well, you know, we know the brains of the operation was in that family even like policies, you know, as you're not crazy bright.
That's a lot of pressure. That's almost it's almost like that second album territory.
It feels like Freddie Mercury. You've got queen. That is how I think
Queen and then you've gone off and doing your solo thing. Unlike Queen call us it was more supportive of your solo venture as well. I'm more pure life.
Yeah, I think that I I look back. And even though like I love Hey, Tiger, I love making something for women. I love food. I think it's like art, but it is, you know, you can experience with every one of your senses. I love I just I love everything about it. Love the team love Bry. Um,
but I do think looking back, that I subconsciously chose something which was as far from in Bartow as I could make it. So it's a social enterprise. It's not for profit, which is in sort of, there's an alignment there within Votto, which is like helping people, you know, live their lives being able to support them. What was the distinct? Was there a clear distinction? Were you like, you know, that's great. That info does that. What was this social enterprise bit? Why was that important to you? Do you think?
So I think that I find the concept that business can serve community and make things better to be a very exciting and important concept. And I think this focus we have, which is that business, success is purely about revenue, is responsible for huge amount of the crap that's going on in the world. So social enterprise, to me seems like the logical next step where you bring people together to do incredible work, they get paid fairly for the work that they do. So they you know, they get to earn a livelihood doing work that they are passionate about. And it serves a real need and social purpose within the world. So hey, Tiger funds, cocoa farmer community development, in an area of Ghana, which has a very high percentage of cocoa farming communities and these cocoa farmers and 78 cents per day, most of these kids in these communities, growing up stunted, no access to education. You know,
very poor nutrition. And back in 2010, the the cocoa industry committed to getting the number of children in child labor in West Africa, Coco plantations, down from 2 million children in 2010 to 200,000. By 2020. It's currently sitting at 2.2 million. So, you know, there's 2.2 million kids who are my kids age, who are working and and some of them in a, you know, don't be a Debbie Downer, but I'm holding circumstances. Yeah. And something that gives us such great pleasure ever he is responsible for just so much crap over there. So if it's terrible, 70
odd cents or whatever day What then if that's the benchmark they're working to? What's the reframing of it? Is it 510 1520
hundred dollars a day? Like, how do you go from such a low point, and understand and reframe the whole situation?
I don't have a like, it is a complex problem to solve. And I don't have a totally elegant answer to it. The world Coco Brahma, which is kind of a, you know, industry body, which brings a whole bunch of different experts together to analyze how Cocos going on an impact level, believes that it's going to take much more holistic community development work, which is why we do what we do, because it's not just about the cocoa itself. It's about the fact that cocoa farmers don't have any education. There's a, you know, lack of nutrition, it's really, it's tough going, you know, everything from you know, farming practices are really inefficient because they farming the way they grandfather's farmed. And, you know,
there's better potentially much more efficient things they could be doing, to the fact that, you know, physically they're in very remote locations, and these cocoa traders will come and say, Look, this is how much I'm offering you take it or leave it.
Right. The what comes first for you, we got, you know, your next album, doing a new business. The was that finding a problem? Was that hearing about something like what was happening in Ghana, thinking about what can I do? The idea of the business, which one? Is it for you, or is it a blend,
I knew I wanted to do a social enterprise next, because I think that's a really interesting thing to do. But I didn't know what it looked like yet. And then call us nine, the kids actually took a holiday in Hong Kong, and we went to Hong Kong, and I was looking at all the chocolate that they have there. And I was like, there's so much more in terms of flavor profiles, and there is in Australia, it's so interesting, and so fun, and we're just not seeing it. At the same time, I was looking at trends coming out of states food trends, because I kind of I'm quite passionate about food. And I knew I wanted to do some, I thought I'd like to do something in food next. Also, it's tangible. And you can tell people what you do. And they understand like, if I try and talk about in other people's eyes just glaze over.
So, you know, we were away. And I was looking at trends in the States. And I was like, there are brands that are starting to focus on women. Women are the largest demographic of you know, people who purchase chocolate in Australia. And yet, most every other brand that we see is targeted either at your kids, or your parents in law. Like there's it, nobody's kind of making an aspirational chocolate brand that resonates with women. So that's sounds like this is a totally impractical plan. But I think that there's something in this, but let's just say, I started making chocolate in my kitchen. And at the same time, I got involved with the Hunger Project, which is this amazing charity that we work with now, in a project in Burkina Faso, which is the third poorest country in the world, bordered by Ghana and the Ivory Coast. And I was talking to the CEO of The Hunger Project, Melanie node and one day and she said, Well, you know, a big problem in Burkina Faso is false child trafficking.
So these children go work in cocoa plantations in Ghana, in the Ivory Coast, taken away from their families never see them again. And, and I thought, Oh, that's like it was it was so jarring that that was the impact of this passion that I have for chocolate. And I thought, well, I could I don't know anything about making food products, but I could smash these things together hole in the market impact kind of issue that needs to be solved.
That was me clapping.
And I'll continue.
between then and now, what has been the biggest change in your thought, thoughts on things and the way that you approach a tiger?
Um, food products have really hard things with physical stock, physical product, so much harder than I thought, I think I was kind of a bit cocky in the beginning and thought, Oh, you know, I've done something I've invited scale, this should be fine. And I was like, wow, this is really hard, like, infrastructure costs. Yeah, for making something like a physical food product is like massive investment. So I think I have a lot more respect for the people who've done it.
Well, most people are trying to go the other way. They going? How can I create something that's not a tangible product, it's an online product, I can sell it while I sleep and not have to worry about returns. It's like, it's it's fascinating. I mean, it's that's the that's where I see you. The competitive management is like, tackling that is no small feat. Yeah. Well, it's the 10th. I think there's something there's something appealing in the tangible as well, even our podcasts were like, We need much.
Pleasure and giving somebody something Yeah. And they said that that gronk mama in May comes out and Good Feet, I want to feed you. I love you. I want to feed you. I'm I get to feed everyone. That's great.
It helps that the chocolates good.
Do you think that we're actually going to have to pay more for chocolate in the future? Do you think it's like for all these things? If all? Like who's taking the money? Is there a way doing a disservice by only spending a few bucks at the supermarket on chocolate?
I think if you are buying chocolate, which doesn't have some sort of certification attached it, then you really need to consider the impact that your decisions are making. Yeah.
Do you think about like, from an issues point of view you have that is one issue. You have environmental impact on things. There's so many different lenses that you can look at, you know, for instance, like cosmetics, if you want to be in the in the market in China, you have to be testing on animals, like as part of the process these things happen, which then ends up it seems like two steps forward, one step back two steps forward one step back, how do you look at all the different issues? Do you singularly focused? Or do you look at sort of a holistic approach of a tiger?
I think that so you know, a business can become a B Corp. I don't know if you know what it is. But it's a really holistic kind of analysis of how your businesses performing on every ethical level, like a certification, like
a standardization. Yeah, you
can go through that process, even if you don't necessarily want to become a big Corp just to see how you're tracking as a business. So I kind of feel like our job is to get attractively better, because you know, there's plenty of stuff we do, which I'm like, Oh, that's not good enough. Yes, yeah. But you know, you go right, well, we're, we're, we're just trying, we're trying to tackle this problem. We're trying to put impact first. And just we hope that every you know, every few months, we just, you know, take one step forward in terms of being a good all rounder, has there been a magnifying glass on? Do you think from coming from Invesco to now doing this? I certainly think that, you know, generally speaking, if you would launch a chocolate brand, you'd go, Well, maybe I can kind of you know, do some basic packaging, and I'll start selling it and markets and all sort of, you know, ease into it in a traditional bootstrapping way. And I couldn't do like that, that, you know, it just wouldn't have made any sense for me to do that. Because it would have been a real, like mine trip
would feel, but it also feel irresponsible. In regards. If you feel like, you know, the next five steps, do you use the resources that you have? Or do you know, like, I know,
I figure, you know, like, a kind of, it's a bit of a calculated gamble. But I think, you know, any startup is, whatever you're investing, you're sort of, you know, you've your hard earned cash into to make work. You know,
you've got to back yourself to some degree. So I think that, you know, I, but I did feel like there was a lot of people who were watching to see how it would go, and that, you know, I took quite a strong position on the brand and the flavor profiles, and it was so different. And so other, before I launched it, I thought there's a pretty good possibility people gonna go what she been smoking.
Well, this was the back as well of winning the Telstra Business, women's Women's Business Award. And so what did you feel? Because I feel like throwing Votto, there was so much time where you were just sort of behind the Sainz and there was sort of an active effort to go out and about and to start actually celebrating and Votto. What did that teach you about the whole process, because in some regards, it's it is that mind trip of we're sitting, we're doing our day to day stuff, nothing really changes, like you're still you know, grinding away. And then all of a sudden, with this slight slant of a PR perspective on things, people, all of a sudden care and also part of it's like, frustrating. So these guys have been doing this for you know, at the time, you know, 12 years or whatever, what's, what's going on? Was that a mind trip for you?
Yeah, it's a massive mind trip. And interestingly enough, most women who go through winning the Telstra Business Women's Awards, by the end of the year, are burnt out, freaked out in some way, because it's just such an escalation of your personal brand. Like it really is, like we've gone through a few awards programs. Now, it is the most effective in terms of getting your personal brand out by a country mile. It really is. But that also means, you know, you go from being like, well, I've only ever spoken to my team internally before, too. Oh, okay. I'm now I've been invited to, you know, be on a panel with the CEO of CSIR Oh, and you know, like these other people who I find deeply intimidating. And I'm supposed to hold my own here and act like I know what's going on. So you either go know, or you lean into it, and you go, all right, I'm gonna see if I can hold my own here. I saw
that. One of your slogans, and this was quite a while ago, so amount of change, excitement and terror means you're on the right track?
I think so. Yeah.
It sounds a bit exhausting. And also, you know, a level of Tara winning those things, and then having to do that, because if it's not your day to day, then I would imagine,
it took it took a lot of kind of energy, and it pushed me way out of my comfort zone. But again, I always think, you know, like, if life's about having big experiences, which I think it kind of is, you know, if you get the opportunity, go do it.
How do you actually cope? Because I feel like for a lot of people doing what you've done at like one 10th of the scale would scare them know what sort of this Josh and then so just think of where you've gone was there? Is there a level of trauma that you go through?
Because the thing is, like, there's people who are dealing with white, like, I feel like I deal why less, and I get stressed and all that sort of thing. And, like what's your take on mental health? How you, even when you get to the level that you're at? Do you all of a sudden, like I feel like if I got to that level, it's like, okay, that point I need to see a psychologist, I feel like now I need to deal with all my shit because otherwise,
I haven't seen a psychologist I have seen a psychologist I did for probably about nine months, just before a title launched to the sort of you know, like, just like a few months in
these breaking points because it is that you saying Josh I'd get to that and I it'd be breaking points I need to reveals like, say if something bad happens now, I don't have enough moving parts in my life or anything to really fuck up. Like, the worst thing is that Tommy and I have a blow up or something like that. But it's 10am. Eastern only seven takes my spot. Yeah, this guy seven has it cries or be I'll be sad and happy. Yeah. But so yeah, I guess part of it is it's like, when you're moving at a faster pace. It feels like when you hit a wall, there's more fatalities, potentially. So what was that experience?
I think I've sometimes hit a wall in terms of just how much I feel I can cope with growing really fast. So being out of my comfort zone most of the time, which I am, like most the time, I'm like, Oh, I don't quite know if I know what I'm doing here. But I'm going to like give it a good crack. And you generally I think you're always a bit more capable than you think you are.
But I have had times when I've just gone. Oh, I that would it's just too much now. And what I generally find is that something in my body gives out when that happens. happen physically?
Yeah, well, I feel like maybe even like with my back issues like that flares up or whatever, when I'm like stressed, do you feel that? Is there a level of because I feel like so much of my stress is self imposed. And so part of like, when you're building something, because the thing is, you could probably like you could live a great life right now. And just like, do whatever and be pretty chill. And you don't have to be doing all the amazing things that you're doing. You could like reduce stress. How? What is it? What do you think it is internally, your mindset to be like, rather than cashing in and being on a yacht somewhere, which doesn't feel like you anyway. But what your version of that? Why is why is it this? You know, this approach, which is starting another business, going through all the things that happens when you start one?
Do something useful with yourself, don't you? You feel like you can do something that's interesting. And it's going to help you grow and it's going to kind of
help in some way, in no matter what way and you want to contribute. Like, I mean, I feel like you just stop as a human. If you if you just decide, well, now I'm just gonna chill out what happens? Yeah, I'm gonna have a purpose, which is beyond your enjoyment? Yeah.
What's your purpose? Do you think? Um,
I think that, you know, on a personal level, it's, we have a motorcycle. Yeah, that's really laptop downstairs,
they very rarely actually stop
chasing the engine.
So I've come to the conclusion that for me, the purpose of life is to have you know, as many big interesting experiences as I can have, see, where I can take things, see how far I can push myself. And the other side of it is to try and leave the world just a tiny weeny bit of a better place, which sounds really cheesy, but I honestly believe it's true. I believe that, you know, there's a, there's a quote, I think it's Maya Angelou, which is, you know, services, the rent that we pay for living, which I think, you know, I believe is true. And I also believe that, you know, the greater the sort of, the more things that you are given the responsibility, you have to do useful stuff with it. I'm going to tell my landlord
that stop paying rent is a pain.
No, my my landlord actually was one of your employees.
Yeah, well, I was always wondering what the hell is this guy? Always home and not? What does he do without that he's really utilizing the work at home. work remotely.
He just moved. He moved over there now. Yeah, but
yes. There's a mark.
Yeah. The like, we're
doing with playing guitar, brown hair. Taekwondo, I think.
Tommy was living above in another apartment. Yeah. And then they saw moving out. And we're just like Tommy stone. Yeah. What do you guys me down for that? Really? Excellent. She was she was I'm going down. I was like, Yes, thank you. I didn't want to. And then we say can we take your pies. So what I always saw me wearing the T shirts. And so it all made sense.
He's a good guy. He's great.
landlords, great. Starting the business, the vision that you have, like now, I love how I you know, I hear you articulate this vision you have why you do it. How different is it from the early stages,
the early stages of high growth.
I guess if you as a person and the business and the partnership Josh know,
but I feel like I think that like in summer get like, I think that you there's the core values that I have. And then it's actually fied The thing is that I feel like part of it is my I feel like you've gotten what you feel more socially responsible, or, like you are more of a public figure. Now, when we were when we were working, it feels like it was a lot more sort of people wouldn't know involved. Oh, it was like pretty chill. Yeah, and so I guess that's probably, I mean, I just felt like, I feel like you a very kind you. Like, I just remember, like, what, like always feeling calm at work. I remember, it got to a point though, where it's like to come because of when I was doing the social media stuff. And I was like, a little bit stressed. And I said to sales, like, I can't work out like apart like my one job was social media. At the time, that's my one job. I said to sigh I was like, I can't think of like a post today inside just like went over. And she said, it's okay. If you can't think of a post today just don't post. And that was my one job especially. But I feel that you've gotten I think he you've also developed in regards to people as well, where it's like, having empathy or having that tone. You can't actually do that with Simon, you can't do that with people and expect like great results. I feel like you've developed this great empathy versus expectations and all this sort of stuff.
The thing is, is that I won't actually work with people who I don't think eminently capable. Yeah. So if I don't think you're eminently capable, you're gone really quickly. In total honesty, you just you are
Yeah, I'm sorry. Um, yeah. So that, you know, that's the honest truth of it. And because I'm not good at, you know, having, I'm not good at writing people's tales, because I want to, and I'm always like, well, if you feel you can't today, then I'm sure you're thinking about how you're going to do it better tomorrow. So I better just leave you to it. Because I respected you that I was like, well, there's no point me having that conversation with you. If you there. If you'd said to me, Hey, sorry. Can you help me figure out how to like how to do this? I wouldn't. All right, let's sit down together. And let's figure it out together. But you so capable, and you're so smart. I was just like, Whoa, clearly he's on it, like a post today isn't going to make any difference, and it's going to lead to something better.
Anyway, it was a strategy thing to ride. So I was like thinking I was probably like overengineering everything trying to work out exactly. That post felt like it was an important thing. Do you think that people, there's some people that freak out with that autonomy or that respect that they're just not used to experiencing,
I did have this guy at work and a tiger who once said to me, so we should just scream at me, it'd be so much easier, there was a big stuff up and he was like, I wish you just have a go at me would make me feel better. Now it's like, Look, you know, you are beating yourself up more than I would ever be able to beat you up externally. And the fact of the matter is, is that if I'm dealing with somebody who is going to pass the buck or not beat themselves out, when something goes that wrong, then I'm not working with the right person. Anyway,
the the new model of work or business, working for somebody, I think, has a lot more autonomy in there. And I found that, and I'd love to know what you think, can you teach someone to be autonomous? What do you think it's like? It's like initiative, can you tell teach someone to have initiative?
I think it all comes down from the person's intention and what they want.
No, I don't think that if somebody is like, I just want to do my job and go home, that I can sit them down and go, Hey, you should be ambitious. And you should be thinking outside the box. And you should be doing all these things. Because that comes from you know, that comes in internally, if somebody is asking me if somebody wants to be that way, if they like I, you know, I want to get big stuff down, and I want to be effective. And I you know,
that to me counts for like 80% end of it. And then you can sit them down and you can talk to them about how and coach them through it. But generally, people have got that in them. They just need some tools to think in the right way. But if the intention is not there, if they don't want to do it, then this you know, and it's also okay, if they don't want to do it different people go through different phases. Sometimes you're gung ho in your career. Like I think probably the three of us are all the time, but you know, and I want you as well,
I like that you've aligned us with you will take it. You know,
and some people are just in a phase they live for I'm like, well, it's all the stuff that interests me, or I'm in any relationship or I want to have children or whatever it might be. And right now I just want to career which is a bit more set and forget bringing the money this and that's okay to
say they in existence, like Is that a thing now like moving forward? I can imagine it's becoming more about being autonomous and flexibility. But you need to get your stuff done. We can't be micromanaging you like think about your kids. And I think about my what's it gonna look like for him? What do you think?
So when I did this panel with the CEO of CSR, and an Australia's chief scientist, that made Wi Fi right. Please, Ira,
maybe GPS, somewhere over another life?
Yeah, yeah. Great. Look it up. I don't know. I'm just one of the early panels that this was one of the trauma panels. Yes. This is like a full on trauma panel up. So how'd you get with those things? Sorry, guys. I'm just getting a nod from Miss 97.
Wi Fi along with Erica. Erica.
Erica, not just me, but asthma.
Malaria, I'm sure in developing Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yes.
Yeah. So maybe I'm not the only target market.
That's almost the, you know, online marketplace in tiger and chocolate very differently. And so, yeah, what happened in the panel? What did they ask?
Oh, so the discussion was that basically, you know, there's going to be coming to the exact stat now. But something like 40% of job loss from automation in the next 15 years. And that a huge amount of you know, jobs, which are considered those kind of were like, I clock in and clock out. And during the day I do my thing. I just going to disappear very, very quickly. And the conversation was, is this something we should be concerned about in Australia? Is it not? And of course, I'm sitting this I will, I think we should be deeply concerned. And we should be starting to think about this in school. And we should even be starting to look at how we would implement a universal basic income, because that might become necessary, given that so many jobs are going to be you know, like, going away.
And of course, the these two guys were saying, No, no, everything's fine. She's wrong. You don't need to worry, the government has it in hand. I was thinking this, you know, in May impulses into this research. I feel like, you know, this is coming. And it's a real, like, imminent danger that's really trying to attack in this position. Then I realized, oh, my goodness, they're like government payroll. Of course, they're taking this position. They don't want to go Yes. Everyone panic. We don't know. sniffing Erica.
In that moment,
what do you do? Like you go, now? I'm Did you back?
off? Yeah, I just kept on arguing my point. Yeah, I just I decided, well, well, I can, I came to the conclusion that got me on here for my opinion. And so all I can do is give my opinion
feels like a shift, though, in how you've developed as a person, do you think that you have developed confidence? And where has that come from?
practice time and practice. And
a couple of times where I tried to pretend I think I've had to get a better at kind of knowing where I'm confident and what I can speak to with authority. And what I don't know what I'm actually talking about, because I think I used to think that I needed to be this all rounder, who knew everything. So if I, you know, like, so I was on a fin review panel in front of like 300 journalists and again, stressed like, you know, way out of my comfort zone type stuff, because you're like, if I say something stupid, every single time write about it in this room. But during that discussion, the the journalist who was interviewing me said, you know, and what do you think about this, this new law that's going to be put in around listed companies, and I just had no idea like involved is not listed. It's an awesome your interests me, I have no idea. And in the past, I would have gone. Oh, my goodness, panic stations, I don't know, everyone's gonna think I'm stupid.
start saying words that same way. We talked about this yesterday, it was like, a clients come to us and said, you know, given Tommy a big sort of offering, regardless of what we can do, and they're like, we need an answer now. Yeah. And I guess the part of the growth is being like, Oh, it's okay to say I don't I'm gonna have to think about Yes. We'll, we'll come back to you on that.
And it's perfectly fine. And I realized I'd heard sort of a woman another panel that I'd been on, who'd gone? Oh, I'm not sure. You know, and
it's such a good point. Because it is, it's like, it's a confidence in. That's not that's not the area that I play. And I don't really know that. Which is like super powerful strengthens.
Yeah. It's just like being fully aware of what your own strengths and weaknesses are, which I think it's also very, very important. You know, you you've got to know what you're really good at, in order to know what you're weak at once you know, those things you can go with not actually I'm damn strong here. I'm sorry. Yeah, it was to be able to feel that I developed enough to say, you know, what I really went not listed on I have no interest in this. You know, I'm sorry, you going to need to ask someone else. And then she was like, oh, okay, we moved on to the next topic. I was like, that was okay. Good. Doesn't mean I'm dumb just means that I'm not actually interested or know about this specific year.
Sure. I'm what you do know. Yeah, super powerful. I'm going to bring up the psychologist stuff again, because I feel like I'm using people as it in to try and eventually get comfortable to do it. Because it's not that there's a stigma. But I just feel that just, I don't like going on the tram, let alone having to talk to like a
reception talking to an Uber driver.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
The trophy trolling me on my own show.
It's just an interesting distinction. I see the tram is more anonymous,
in a way not well, I say that I said the thing with the tramp stuff is, I'll always stand up. Because I just can't deal with trying to pick who deserve the seat more than me. Do you know what I'm
gonna say? who deserves to sit next to me? And I was like, Whoa Josh know. It's like,
yeah, it's okay. So it's like, pregnant women, all the women, why would you say Oh, women, I'll give them a setup to all women. It's like, Okay, so I've just created this table that the list is so big. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, what, like, I'll just stand up, and then I'm, then they'll be hips, the seats, and then I'm standing up, and then I'm feeling self conscious about standing up. Everyone else is sitting there. Anyway. That's not the point. The point was around the psychology. Okay, so what are the actual with the psychologist? What's the actual thing that you take away? And do they get into the specifics? Because the thing is, these psychologists, they haven't done this panel tour, they don't have the experiences that you have. So how do you then if they say, No, you just need to do this site? And how do you take that in and be like, actually, they
don't do that. That's more, that's more coach you're talking about? Um, what do you say? Because this I'll do like, so for me. It's more getting down into the crux of the issue. So for me, I've always been really bad at self care. And I've always been really bad at being kind to myself. And I have an intense need to be liked. So I will, you know, almost play a role with people when I don't know them that well, so that they will like me.
Which I mean, has a lot of payoffs. It really does. But it also means that sometimes I'm get super tired. Yeah. Because I'm like a day, okay, I overthink everything. I'm like, Did I offend them when I said that? Like, it's really intense in my mind. And so it's more like, okay, you know, when you find a good psychologist, it's more like a conversation around Well, why do you think you feel that way? And you know, how, you know, what? Why would somebody really want to be your friend when they get to know you? Can you think of the reasons it's uncomfortable as anything? It's like, anytime I've gone to see a psychologist, I've come back wrecked, just exhausted. But it filters in? Is it?
Is this something you knew before you started with a psychologist?
I'm No, not really. I will I you know, it's very hard to be self aware. And, and it's not like she even sat me down and go, and when this is my diagnosis, she was just, you know, very good at kind of coaching me through coming to that conclusion myself and asking why, like, Why would you say that about yourself? Why do you think it's so important that you you know, that every single person that you meet likes you? Yeah, um, and then I do.
I try. I try really hard. That's the problem.
Shopping so I like it's hard. It's hard working on yourself. Like, I feel like you're trying to work out every and so I'll ask you to work out what they'll ask you and what the answer will then be the likability things annoying. what's the what's the other option being unlikable? Because sometimes I think may trying to be likable, is probably a good thing. Because that means that I do the things that I should probably be doing like yourself.
Okay, like it. Doesn't that make sense?
If you just locked yourself? That's, I'm sure. Yeah, sure. People like that. And if they don't, it's okay.
something to be said for just being kind, like focusing heavily on being kind I think is a really important thing. But um, yeah, I mean, I needed to get over the idea that I needed to engineer what I was saying, so that psychologists would like me,
Well, the thing is that also,
the thing is, I'm like, what's that first meeting?
It doesn't matter?
Who's meeting through, but I think that it's like, oh, I would want to go at this white. Like, I feel like I have got the direction of control thing. Like you're trying to control every element of that control your answer their answer, what they think you all of that, I think it's great. I think this is great sign that we did you know, the fruit was at a specific when you look for one where you like, I want like a free like, no, there's a Freud and the other one,
I think you just gotta lock the person. So I went to one and I did not like a think about
like, Oh, she's just a lovely human. I, I think just you know, I love people who are warm. I like people who are warm, and she was very warm. And she listened. And I felt kind of I felt safe. I think that's probably the you know, she can't really get really vulnerable. You talk about like your childhood and all sorts of crap. How quickly
did they get to that? Because I think Bry was surprised when she when they just like guy that straightaway.
They go, they start asking you really tough questions straightaway. And I do this thing where if somebody I'm good at avoidance, so I'll just go blank, and I'd literally have these times on me like, I'm so sorry, I just can't process what you're asking me right now. Because it was just too hard. But then like two weeks to try again, and I'll be like, okay, now I feel like I can think about this now. Yes, I want anything hyper traumatic.
Yeah, no, but everyone's got like their version of it. Yeah, I want to do them feel because you're reconciling all the things in the past or whatever? Do you need to re enter into relationship say, like, with family members, or whatever and reset? Or? Because you've, you might sometimes uncover knowledge and be like, Oh, that's why I do this. It's actually because my dad's an asshole to me, or my mom does this or whatever. There's boundaries that are way beyond what you actually think the boundary should be. You know what you should say no to? Yeah, but how do you look at relationship? How do you do you feel like when you walked away from it, it's like, are you I'm going to speak to this person? Or?
No, I've never, I'm all know, there was one conversation I did have to have, which was with somebody where I said to them, I know you don't mean it this way. But when you say this, it makes me it's made me feel this way since I was a kid. And I and I, and I need you to not say it, because it just triggers me to all these other like it kind of it lifts the veil on behaviors that maybe you're not even aware of going on. There's so much. What about saying no? Have you struggled with that? I read a book called The life changing magic of not giving a fuck by Sarah night. And I think it is one of the best books that I've ever read. Because it categorizes everything into Should I actually give a fuck about this? Or should I not. And I've only got so many folks to give. Let's give me the title of the show.
It's not a really bad, but she phrases it. Yeah, you've only got like 30 in a day. And if you give all of them away to stuff, which isn't actually effective stuff, you care about stuff that's going to shift the doll to you, for you, then you're not going to have enough for the stuff you do care about your family, kids, your partner, whatever it might be. And it was really clinical and went through every single area of my life. And I went through and I realized, wow, I'm doing all this stuff because I feel like I should, which is taking away time from doing stuff I'm passionate about like, you know, some of those facts that
you don't give now,
I do a lot less speaking, I do way less speaking engagements. So I do hardly
This podcast is very rare. So like you don't do that many podcast. So thank you for being here.
Oh, man, it's a pleasure. I've never seen it Josh and I, I've been a longtime listener, first time caller.
But now I saw I don't do much of that anymore. Because I felt like it took up a huge amount of my time and energy. And I found it quite like intense. So I feel like okay, now I know how to do it. I can do it well, but I only do it when I feel like wow, it's really going to shift the dial for a tiger. Yeah. Or, in some way, like really
going to shift the dawn about being kind and this not giving a fuck approach to things. How do they align? How do you how do you make them work? Because I I really resonate with that I want to be able to do that. But I feel like the risk that I would fall into. It feels like it's single, single needs based or like I'm thinking about what what is it that I want? I'm going to just deliver on this and a few of the close people versus so many of the things that you do having impact for so many other people. Yeah, so how how do you identify that in the formula,
the idea is not that you stop doing things for people, the idea is that you do things for people which are really effective, and make you know, and and make meaningful sense to them. So for instance, in the context of speaking engagements, I'll get asked to do speaking engagements because people will go, Oh, she's she's the one woman entrepreneur in tech that I know of, therefore, we should ask her. So rather than saying, Okay, great, I'll do that. Because I don't want to do it. I have a list of other women entrepreneurs that I give to them that I go, hey, look, I'm not available to do this. But here are these 10 women you can contact, they still get a good outcome because it's not actually made that they wanted, they wanted what I represents the women who are just getting started in their career, you know, like in that side of themselves, they're speaking and their personal brand can do it. Everyone kind of wins. And nobody actually loses in that I just had to be a little bit smarter. I didn't go, No, screw you. I'm too busy.
But the kindness comes in is a solution for what you've asked me what I've said no to, I think it was even spoken about that within our business, which is like, if we can't help someone, it's okay if we can't help everyone. But it's like, we can at least direct them into the right area. And it's also being able to celebrate other people around you where it's like, actually, that person would be perfect if they have a good if that person then speaks of the event that you're going to speak at, and they do a great job. It's a win as well.
And I bet I still have difficulty saying no for people. And I've got a big thing about people feeling like maybe I think I'm too good stuff. So I find it
hard to think I find that when I say sometimes I'll say yes to things and then the the pain that it creates based on like that things three months away or whatever. I'm going to say yes. But then it's like this, like, long, long dread. Have you identified that stuff as well?
Me constantly now I try and imagine what it's going to be like, and a friend of mine who's actually a business coach again, you know, using swear words again, but we'll go it's either a fuck yeah. Or it's a fuck no. Yeah. And if it's not a fuck, yeah, it's automatically got to be like, Hey, I'm excited to do this. Yeah.
Any any, you know, like I say, the journey I've been on in my career. And all the mistakes and things I've said yes. To feel like have shaped me in some way. When do you know, to have not listened to the fuck yeah, well, it feels like a life. Right? There's a shift from probably at the start. You need to say yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Enough runs on the board to then be able to say no, if you're 1918 out of school, and you're saying no to everything, you probably going to get yourself
I assume more opportunities will be exciting. At that point. If you asked to go speak of your high school when you're 18. You go wow, I got to go speak
at my high school. It was a traumatic experience. And they actually because I, I spoke, they didn't tell me how long to speak for again. And so it was the awards night. And I actually gave $100 check to the winner of the media department like who want a meteor water your check your money? Yeah, it was media flexes money. The problem is I didn't have the hundred bucks in it. I had to, I was waiting for a client to pay me or whatever. It was, like real scrappy, earlier like was 18. But anyway, I, I spoke for 45 minutes, but they only need 15. They didn't say that. And there was the end of the talk. I'd realize I've gone to factor that lady came out to me who was sort of would have been considered like the crazy person of the group. She came out. Yes. Don't worry what anyone else says that was.
And I look back now and the final slide that I used in the presentation was a photo of brain I on an elephant.
We'll get to that. We'll get to that.
The night it was brain I on an elephant in Thailand, and I was sort of like look you could be doing.
And it wasn't even me paying like, funny. I was serious. I was like, travel the world to slightly inappropriate things like and then the guys pointed at Tony pointed out, elephants have amazing memories. So they probably still still remain as you might. Yeah. Anyway, the tongue kissing photo. What is this? I've not saw this. It was Facebook. When I was on Facebook. I'm off social media. But no, there was a photo, that old photo that was on Facebook of Bray and I from 2008. And it was sort of like, you know, early, early days or whatever I was saying so it's just like us being sort of quite intimate. Taking the photo. It was made.
Like visible. visible. It
popped up like as a member
tagged it. Yeah.
Yeah, it got tagged
to the surface, so it's not necessarily really, I think, what do you like
15 year old Josh
give you like a little brother? Yeah, I was like, Oh, goodness, no, I
actually post the photo. Like straight ahead. Like I straighten my hair. Before we finish up, so I was looking in the rabbit hole. I found this is comment on one of your videos. Uh huh. And the comments ever read the comments. So I she's the audio jungle voice. Oh, yeah. And something I've This is like I've made videos. You know, before I knew Josh and having my experience with invited, I was always hearing the audio jungle which we
apply it again. People are hearing that right now. And I was I was blown away. That's a great question. And these you? Yes, yes. It's me. So what happened there
like, because that is the startup and there was no one else to say it. And so I record myself saying audio jungle and we use that as the watermark. And since then, for whatever reason people are so attached to it now that we we haven't ever changed it. I looked it up and it was like
a specific someone had just posted this on YouTube as
just that sound effect
like someone's really sad of it. Yeah, so it's like its own post. It's a claim one without any any music or anything.
It's slightly probably there's probably fetish vibes that we're not aware of. And we do. Maybe put the headphones on press and hear the recorded one and then I want you to do the real version for our show.
Audio jungle audio jungle. How do
you think he went?
Missing I seven year on headphones.
I'll play it first and then give it a moment.
Audio jungle. Audio jungle.
Like a British accent are you doing?
is this man However, people that like rip the so that's like a watermark over the song. So you know, people can't it's, it's like, so you can't use it in a commercial video. But it's now become a bit of a joke that like some bloggers rip it on purpose. And they take the song, but they leave the audio jungle in there, which has like more punch to the joke of like, taking off of logo right now. And I'm using music that still has the parody video. It's like a parody. Yeah.
So it's become a life of its own. every six months or so business gets in charge and says Can we please use the same, the same voice that you've used for audio jungle? Can you please put us in touch with her? And they have to go No, no, actually, that's the founder of that site. Absolutely. Yes.
You seem you get into the singing and stuff brain was saying that she my girlfriend brain works with sigh and she was saying I agree. I'm glad she's I'm actually glad she didn't come today because she would have been like, we'll finish up in a couple of seconds. But she would have been very sporadic as she
takes good care of me. Yes. Does high targets pale?
Yeah. And so she was talking she was talking the other day about she was like humming and singing in the office and then you would do it and it would make her feel a little bit bad about herself.
No, I do. Whenever she mentions your name. I go Josh Janssen
dead. I don't know why.
The Daily talk show the old one man. It's like the Goldfinger the song Goldfinger. Not a good thing because you didn't get
the singing come from was that actually something you did when you like growing up?
I tried to be an opera singer until I was 18. Yeah, I was an opera.
You do something like Well, no. Can you hear
me out of the audio jungle? I'm not doing anything else. No, that's too embarrassing. I saying I saying Josh Janssen
that was that was good. Yeah, that's okay. What are you excited that like the next 2019? Hey, Tiger. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. Chocolate. It's a it's very addictive. So you can like you can smash a block quite easily
with me because both tried it?
Yeah, we have. I'm glad because it's not Friday. We
go all out. Yeah. It is one of those ones. But yeah, really? Yeah. So yeah. 2019 Yeah. What does it look like? What are you excited about?
I'm really excited that East is going so well. So it feels like we've nailed a start. And it's flying out the door. That's exciting. You know, hey, Tiger isn't profitable yet. So we need to do some, you know, a like this some hard work to get it.
So how does that needs to be? How does that work? So social enterprise. It's people who are really like, for whatever reason people get, even when you do really good things. They blow what like, at, we don't have a tax or whatever. Like they will say this shit, right. But the The fact is, what how is how is it structured? How can you make sure that you are supporting and doing it for the right reasons?
Yeah. So look, I think the reason that happens is because some businesses say yeah, we're absolutely saving the world. And all I'm saying with a target is it's owned by a charitable trust. So I literally I'm the director, I can't take money out of it, it needs to go to a charity, I don't take a salary. Everyone else gets paid, you know, fairly for the work that they do.
What is an actual charitable trust? What is that? technical term? What is actually like a it's
like a kind of a structure on top of a tiger, which is called give tiger. And right now, like, so basically, usually with a social enterprise go Well, once we're profitable, we will donate X or Y. I didn't want to do that. Because I thought that's weird for me to do that. So right from the get go was like, all right, we will donate 50 cents for for every football sold and 25 cents for every mini bus all to this, you know, to project not
So baked it in right from the get go. And I hope that we can do more than that in the future. But it seemed like something that was steady. And I fund that separately. So that hey, Tiger can fulfill that responsibility before it's profitable. But then once Hey, Tiger is running steady, and it is making enough money itself to pay those donations itself. Then it can declare a dividend. This is good Tell me if
it can declare a dividend. And that dividend goes up to give toggle, which owns hi tiger. And then give taga can distribute that out to the Hunger Project, which it can only distribute it out to deja status tread charities. Okay?
Do you have to have like the Hunger Project to accept that money? Do they need to be a beneficiary of the trust or anything? Oh, there's nothing like it can just any charity.
Not, it can be any charity. Like we've partnered with the Hunger Project, and we've committed to a minimum of $80,000 per year. For the next three years. I'm sorry, I feel like coming about stop coughing.
We can get 97 on that will finish. It will be fun.
Um, so we've done that. And I can't remember what the question we're asking.
Yeah. So in regards to all the struggle, we're gonna move on to corporations.
Destruction of IPOs.
To me that IPOs know, so what's the what is the tangible? What does it look like from a tangible level? So it's like you got the cash? What is what are you actually going to be doing in those communities.
So the Hunger Project runs a really holistic program, it's everything from micro loans, for farmers, primarily women farmers. So that, you know, oftentimes it takes a very small amount of money. So for instance, something that can work very well is that they might buy a cow, they might get a micro loan to buy cow, they can then sell the milk, you know, worst case, eat the cow, or, you know, like, basically, you know, they they have another revenue source, if their cocoa yield is low, or if something goes wrong with their code, there's a drought, whatever it might be.
There's HIV AIDS education, which is a really big deal. Because oftentimes, you know, it's a, they're very, very high rates of HIV AIDS in those areas, and family members die, and it's can spread very, very easily without the right education in place. And when there's not enough people to, you know, tend farms, it can be an issue. So it all kind of it all ties in this early childhood education is education for adults. There's education on farming practices, there is a broad array of things. But what's interesting about it is that they all when you dive deep into it, they all work together to create this really holistic program that facilitates a community lift themselves out of poverty, on their own terms, because a Ghanaian led team will go into this community, and they'll do that education program for you know, like, you know, 20 animators, and then they will go out into the community and they will teach all the women about early childhood nutrition, for instance, you know, what they can be eating from the land, which will keep them all going if there is a time when they don't have the money to buy other foods. So and then, and then those women will tell other women and they'll tell other women and it's kind of viral. Yeah. So it's, it's the best program I've come across.
Thank you so much for coming on. Oh, it's a pleasure was good fun. Yeah.
Science aid. Thank you for coming on. Hey, Tiger is the chocolate brand. Yeah. And now you've seen the face of the audio jungle voice to my guys.