#083 – Aussie who just visited North Korea/

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To daily Talk Show Episode 83 on Josh Johnson and I'm telling me jacket I was on. I was on Instagram the other day looking. Are you spending eight hours a day, eight hours awake? I'm sorry. Anyway, I was doing a flick through Insta stories and I follow a guy Chris he I think he's based out of Collingwood or anyway, I always would see him in Collingwood and then it doesn't look like film photography type of shit. And he just does this post where he's got maybe like 20 like rolls of film and it was just saying that he was going to North Korea as you do as you do so I was like obviously I've had a fascination of North Korea you know I've never really finished he's you've got to take I've got a bit of that vibe going on anyway so I Instagrams Chris and said my we come on the podcast sleet and mediums leading these dams is that what they say? And here you go Chris on on the line now you're in Beijing is that right? Yep. Yep perfect if I fucked any of that story Apple does that sound pretty pretty bad?

1:09
Yeah just bad accurate yeah

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so before we get into the The Adventures of Chris

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so you based in Melbourne and I was I was I'm actually moving to the UK after this trip awesome so this is your this is your like Nomad time of just doing we're going wherever you want to do yeah

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a little bit a little bit having my quarter life crisis just quit my job in yeah probably for a bit

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perfect I'm about to do that i mean i feel like mine slightly half ass because it's sort of like a three month like I've contained it to three months and then I'm coming home yeah nice so how long How long have you been traveling so far? I just on just on

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the beginning okay

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so you so you have you booked you have you on your trip Did you just book sort of a trip to the UK and had a few stops yeah yeah

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so once I got my visa hold on I booked my I just decided that controls fell into and I sort of planned around the North Korea trip is

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you have to go on at all

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and sorry I'm a facile face toward Ella to go on

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sort of question around that yeah

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yeah yeah and so North Korea you so what's what's the deal how do you how do you getting How does it all happen had you just decide on a tour to go with yes so

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a couple years ago for a friend of a friend put up like a Facebook post saying that we're getting all this shit like to join in on a garage sale and I got in on that and I met him and he said is Matt he's at Macalester k UDL as set I think on Instagram

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and yells get a chance to hear and I'm like also a movie like all the occupation of a new job there Why can't quality doing like are going to be a tour guide to know for North Korea also call what the flock like wild

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and so it sort of became mates after that and after falling oyster like single is picked some like okay This looks so like just so not what I thought it would be so just like fuck it like let's let's just go and say what it's like

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so what did you think it was gonna be and what well I

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weighed like what a googling about other travelers experiences I've sorted in the water I sort of went together with fresh eyes

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and they give you like a little primer when you book The tour like you know what to bring in sort of like educated and stuff like that

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Why do you say

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what does it mean like I know it means but is in what the effect Connecticut

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yeah so I guess as a sort of so the whole deal is that you have to do to guide at all times

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and so you can't just like golden wonder by yourself you always in a group over the glass if it was gonna be fairly restrictive, but I do like walking the streets and mingle with locals but because it's like such an isolation this country like the Koreans are quite shy

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and like I say so different is it bad enough instead of being like curiosity like what the fuck they kind of just like who is this person yeah I'm really comfortable

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but it was made a when I when the so we got to like water park where

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I guess it's kind of like

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a bad analogy I guess kind of a bit like Christmas were like it was just full of family is having like barbecue and getting really day drunk

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and they were getting loose and like they were just having a great time like real walk you through that was like dancing with us is like you just give them a drink and like you say cheers we just like Bay in North Korea and they just like love it and go wild

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was your What was your friend experience going into being like a tour guide What What did he tell you before you signed up

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so I finally asked him a lot like a pop what I'd seen again I sort of wanted to be a bit

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I guess I had a bit of already going in because I was taking it like over 100 rolls of film

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and also like on bit worried about customers like that look a bit dodgy you know is like are you going to be pleasantly surprised by the customers there you know and yeah it was it was rushed and hectic but it wasn't scary at all like to call our phones and Alex devices and then just like didn't even check them and gave them back to us

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what was funny when I told Tommy I said about I saw the rolls of film film he's like what they don't allow digital cameras Christmas loves

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photography yeah yeah

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it's like a rubber say My life is like those those like articles since I exist photographers smuggle these photographs out of North Korea but the fact is like you're allowed to take photographs there they sort of what you wonder ended area called like pretty basic rules which I think a fairly reasonable kinda like or photograph people have been military because I didn't comment to that anyway

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yeah

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so that's that because sort of no no I think the thing is there there's like this military everywhere like a lots of

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just out and about and it's like so do that with your men to do construction and everything so you can't really take photos of construction sites and stuff like that so it's

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it's a dictatorship or it's it's a country under dictatorship there's this guy who I don't know if you know Michael malice he wrote this book called

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the unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il and if like if it's fascinating I I've been listening to a podcast he didn't it so it gives you the breakdown of the family you know the grandpa Kim Kim Jong Il Sung yeah and then he's his son Kim Jong Il and then the current guy Kim Jong on yeah yeah like oh it's it's fascinating. I'm not going to get into that but this guy Michael malice he went there in 2012 which was like the year after Kim Jong Il dog died yeah and he was saying that these people in the country as in the people who live there like us in Australia he was saying they're like hostages were not hostages here but he was saying the people that live there essentially hostages within the dictatorship what I'm hearing is it doesn't sound like the hostages begin

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I guess maybe we're all we're all fucking hostages in our own words we just don't realize it yeah

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I didn't get that vibe at all because I mean they are allowed to travel to China and other countries like that and like from killing I can fly to Russia and China

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but I think it's more that like within that society they're all sort of like

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they're also they're all looking they're all looking at each other right like they were all it's not it's more like

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the figures of the party like the Korean Workers Party the figures of Kim Il Sung it Kim Jong Il and now Kim Jong on they sort of day applied

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so it's not so much they're terrified often it's more that like it's this sort of like extreme sort of love and devotion

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about what happened for people that were crying hard enough in the streets for Kim Jong Il six months

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I've heard that but like I feel there's so many like unsubstantiated claims like

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I think it's like a car and what the quarters but like someone just said like you can literally in the West print anything about

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sports these titles like media will you come back check it

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and I guess you can go like through a bunch of

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like sort of sensationalist stuff like about that like about this chief at Starbucks Kim Jong Hoon like scoring like impossible goals call or something like that yeah and like this no soul smoldered like it's literally is some data from like a satire or gossip side or from some sort of dodgy South Korean

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some resource but like it is a weird country like it's

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it's or

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it's just something

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if I still think there's nothing there's not a lot of things when you're there to places open 2018 like a few people they have smartphones and stuff but

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sort of like there's no ads anywhere

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like at all in the entire country or two ads those one in the in our hotel for like this sort of natural medicine product and this one for a career developed North and South Korean car one billboard like just sort of killing and I saw it's really weird like you go to the metro and there's no ads anyway

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and did you you know you were obviously part of a to wear that had other people or what sort of nationalities we're going to visit

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there's a few Australians and

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there was a few

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people from Norway India

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Switzerland Germany the US the US can go there Can they now no no

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no so

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it's a tool company that I work with they don't take us citizens anymore after the last often I forget his name but although someone after that incident you know they'll speaking ideas but it can I hear this

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yeah

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and what was the what was the to like like how how legit did it feel? Did it feel like you were you were safe what sort of preparation did they give you oh yeah i mean i'm totally safe

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in terms of personal safety of like stuff like that like so there you have your to your widened sort of guide buys in the company so I had that guy Matt and then you have to Korean guides and they're like lovely they'll tell you just like they'll be like excuse themselves and I could tell you that they could also just kind of like though I drink with you like in the evening

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and like

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you can just like chat to them and stuff like yeah they'll just be like that's all you like you know like all please don't take photos here you know just be careful you know and stuff like that like that it is to make sure you have a lifestyle

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any troublemakers in the tour group

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not really not really like there was a couple of advisors who just got a bit about

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like the cheap so you

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know I think everyone's sort of like if you're the kind of person that got it

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yeah so you're not an idiot and you don't fuck around it's

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just not there

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you're an Aussie moving to London

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any minute Did you see was it like photos of Kim Jong on around or

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like this What do you mean like

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it's actually less it's less comfortable it's more

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Kim Jong Il

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the statues large sort of statues of every major city the biggest ones that are Pyongyang and they're huge they're I think it is a huge Lisa just

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very quickly Chris a you want headphones by any chance is I am I am Is it possible to unplug and just go directly on the phone I reckon that could be white clear up

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okay I am unplugged yeah I

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think yeah thanks man. Okay so we're

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we're so they just what these statues are just in squares like what's the vibe is you know what's the kind of suburbs like or is it like just city so our Pyongyang is beautiful like I hadn't

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didn't know to be like that going into it like kill Yang is just just to visually aesthetically beautiful city like always absolutely spotless

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and just like also really brought pastoral like building do stuff I don't finish some really weird building this it got like a this side set to this shapes like and like you know there's like high school diagrams and

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they've got this don't think he ever made it to high school

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Yeah, one of the islands on the title river they got like, really shaped like that they send to the

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gang is like, really beautiful. I'd like like, big public space is

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like really a lot of them are dedicated to lots of mine was like every block this accident when you would like this the reunification this like the gj tower that's sort of like the etiology like the song sort of came up with

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and then huge

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you know huge like statues

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Yeah, like everywhere

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and did you get so you've been posting on social media that you went what's been the feedback of your social media followers? Has it been criticism what is it what does your family think about you going what's what's

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the response been like oh my god show us factories

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they were like a sense of pictures her like what the hell that is not what we thought will be like yeah, it's Yeah, it's

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image we get like, sort of a little career with sort of like this really miserable great place that I think we forget the like even if the political side of it is you know, Clark river Doc, the stolen it like millions of people they living the daily lives,

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you know, is still making the best of whatever this is.

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But yes, it was like, I mean, I went on a big public holiday. So I thought

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TV. Ah, yeah,

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just 20 million people living. Yeah. And the reality is, maybe the reality of what you're seeing isn't what the feeling of what it's there or how its portrayed for

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Leon Yang is a specific area of North Korea and I guess

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the people who would speak negatively towards North Korea would cite that fact which is Pyongyang is a is an area where you know, wealthy people or people who have been sort of who are very high up on the ladder a living

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I mean, the place doesn't even have the internet they've got like, under 20 websites on the internet like reality of the world. Right. So

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it's very

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very

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Yeah, yeah. And like always visit the countryside in the consciousness completely look like in contrast to appeal. Yeah. And it's really all like free, free, industrialized laxative, agrarian society. And I guess that's like, I just think people forget, it's a developing country

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like it is a developing country, like it's just

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like Asia, right? Yeah, that's a developing country

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in Asia. And it's like, in the five maybe using, you know, sort of manual ox players and lots of manual labor, some very little industrial

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sort of stuff going on there. So, yeah,

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I've been like, I can't, I don't know. I, I

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can't speak for you to really imagine. Imagine. Malcolm Turnbull the not as bad as a president of Australia High School, what season? What is he service, right? Imagine him killing these brother or having his brother killed. It's

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probably not ideal, which is actually what what john did. And there are a few of them, like a lot of cases even sort of

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imagine what it's like as a North Korean just because she's growing up in that sort of closed off world. Like, they really they really love to go there

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the latest with a sort of, like, I guess, like, the coolest thing you can think of, is like a religious fervor

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like that, that's sort of reference, like the reverence that you'd have, like respect that you have, like, people's sort of like to displace and stuff like that. It's kind of like, how they feel about their leaders. So but

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being so disconnected, what was it like, because you're someone who's pretty connected on social media and things like that. So you've been a few days not being connected to the internet? What was that, like,

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at the start? It was weird because I kept pulling my phone out. And I'm like, you have a muscle memory where your thumb goes to the app or the medically um, you know, when like, yeah, and you just, like, just

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mindlessly Yeah, and then like, obviously would have would have liked but then after a few days, it's just like it's actually really nice like you just sort of like yeah, it was really nice it and I think I made a post I said I hate the term digital detox because if it's like a toxin in our body

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because you know, I love me some love this thing for me and like but it was really really nice and also I found myself going to bed like immediately and not digging around on my phone for an hour and also just like why I'm ready in like 20 minutes because I'm not just like lying there like switching this thing it's like when you're on a fine I end up just going through my photos and deleting them and looking around on the plane everyone else is doing the same because they got no Wi Fi but did you actually like people are walking around Melbourne with it or anywhere in the world that allows you to be connected on their mobile phones so that's just not happening that people want are

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they looking up in a rare they just look like this a lot of just hanging out in public spaces just chatting smoking, still quiet you know I think they're

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so young people like standard have a seed

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Yeah, it's just like lots of I guess public life is kind of like

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like like a motive place in Southeast Asia you know public life is different to how would you control your

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like yeah, it's like sort of heads up

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Yep. people's identities so it was really strange coming back to China everyone has a smartphone here at SIGGRAPH what sort of barely began

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Was it a big brands that you could say like stores that Selby grand

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I'm sorry,

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we got to do a sort of department store like a big supermarket essentially and we weren't allowed to take photos in there because they did have products that they're not supposed to have on account of sanctions and stuff like that

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and did that there is there a sense that when you're going in today tell you you can't talk about this after it Were there any sort of or none of that would have you sweet talk about really have

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like sort of advised us to like if you really want to like awesome like you know the hot Haiti sort of abrupt question

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of like do that but build up a rapport with the science he worked with anyone really if you want to ask them some sort of like pretty confronting questions

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but our guys are pretty good about these is we had a guy I like in a few different groups like the sort of like amalgamated the sort of like split all who's going to be some longer tools and other than others like it, yeah, feel free to ask me questions. If you want to ask any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I put them all

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any graffiti anyway.

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Not that I saw nor have read about the distance, scruffy interface and things but I didn't see any nerd and so what was the what was the tour company called again that you went with the Pioneer tours? Yeah I

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feel like I remember seeing an article about these guys so these are the ones that do some pretty quirky location so they go yeah afghanistan iraq you know some of the most dangerous places

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in the world whether their tagline is places will take you to place the mother would have wanted to go with something like that

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yeah what was what was it What was that company like and would have experienced this tour and North Korea would you ever go to somebody like Afghanistan or Iraq oh and was there even so talk within the group of people who had done those tours

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so I think that's sort of to attract sort of people who are just a bit more you know

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we have holidays but I have a few people they had done like odd places like I'm going to blow their 80,000 kilometer road trip from Sweden that is temple within all across Central Asia through Iran Turkmenistan

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Estonia and stuff like that enterprise yeah took medicine is one of the places your party office and I have like super crazy border control

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but yeah if you'd like a lot of people that I've just done yeah really

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yeah sort of odd so the holidays have been about it is Kazakh Stan after this sir yeah what

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what are you expecting from Kazakh Stan What are they What are they known for follow

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all look I just find centralized rip it fascinating that sort of like love the landscape as well

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any love the movie and he

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tell me he's pulling from every part of these geographical know

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how long you can be traveling for? Like, what's, what's the plans

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in total? Yeah, yeah. So I've got another few weeks in China, going up to Mongolia, bought out

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to some little towns up there

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and then offer that to Cal Stanford few weeks. And also, I think about a side trip to Kurdistan because you don't need a visa for them. What did I do and just another sort of I don't know much about them

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so this one has it has extended the spot to see I would stay there and if not, I don't take it as pasta dish tech other from there. I'm going to assemble for a week

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off the nice place and you're going to the UK

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awesome. It's interesting that I mean not everyone's decided to do this kind of stuff Did you did you have to pay a higher

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insurance like, you know, how you getting travel insurance? Is it travel insurance? Yeah, so funny about that none of the travel insurance companies would cover me

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and even Johan you have a link to like the partner ones like ensure everyone they wouldn't cover North Korea. But then on the on the day with North Korea had like a little information session before we left and we met each other and stuff, but you could buy travel insurance. They're like on the spot.

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So I just did that. I think it was like 40 euro for five days. Yeah, yeah.

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We're just comfortable. Like the basic sort of stuff. Yeah, just describe the feeling like, you know, what were the the different emotions that you felt? Wow. In North Korea from when you're on the plane to landing? What was the actually quite a train? That's cool. Yeah, it

26:09
was overnight train from Beijing. Yeah, it was,

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it was it was odd, because like, when you catch the because of the public holiday, we had to catch a pass over the bridge rather than take the train and let's read so you like we're driving about those three we're going over this river. Their battles like hit a point is like, yep. Now with the DP okay. And you get to the other side,

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you know, it just seems like the outside world

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I guess. Yeah, you feel like, do you really feel like a fish out of water? I guess because, like cultural It is so different. It's so quiet

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at least like when you're coming from somewhere like China and coming from living in Australia, you so you still like

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like people working like addressing really different way to go there like to fashions quite homogenous.

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So the majority of men were like the sort of tailored driven like the track suits. It came on, Gene Kim Jong Il used to wear Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like those two piece track. So it's like a fan of all like, the mouse suits was North Korean style tailored suits. So that's sort of like static where, and doesn't deviate much outside unless they kids

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so yeah, that was really different. And then, like, just realizing like, you really stick out like a sore thumb. Yeah,

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debate stamp your passport know, they give you a little may give you a little tourist visa, it's a little stamp on it. And then

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at the end of it, they stand up that on your exit and taken from you. And then you give your passport stamps in your passport.

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So if I want to go to North Korea tomorrow, what like how much am I gonna have to pay to go for a four day two or five day tour or whatever,

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five day tour from memory is about 1200 Euros,

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which is I think, like 1800 dollars Australian roughly. But that is all your transport. Like accommodation. Food

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pretty much covers everything. But a little cost. Like if you want to buy extra drinks and snacks or like flowers to lay the staff god it's tips for you guys.

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It's leveling quality. I mean, they I mean, I didn't hundred bucks. That's enough for them to put on a show, get a whole bunch of actors and make it look like it's all

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over that

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get that vibe at all.

28:43
Not at all. Like it would be just be so much like it's it's kind of them. I think when you go there like you kind of realize how sort of absurd that notion of like getting actors for like a Metro is because like, it's just sorry, have you been a suffering hill? Yeah, yeah,

29:05
I do think like I am. Yeah, it's sort of like sort of something like put on by

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Yeah, let's just when people claim claim is like, you know, people don't actually use the trains or something like that. But it's like this clearly people on the train like writing the trains like going to where they going so you

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recommend people have got it wrong? Like, I mean, you're dude has been there now, is it wrong trade

29:37
skewed?

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And I think it's just so it's so fun to just like, speculate and like he wild and wacky shit about it. And, you know, the wildness just seems to increase that any sort of

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like you just com

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So yeah, I think it just sort of wants to be

30:00
Yeah, get people have this super hot so I can enable it's actually really easy. Like you book the toy. You feel like your little visa for you there

30:08
and what's your view of North Korea

30:12
it was just it was just like enough feels like it's like nowhere else. It's just so bizarre

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and Pyongyang is beautiful. Like it's so beautiful.

30:25
Yeah I really enjoyed it. I think if anyone has sort of like sort of curiosity to go then you have the mains I would definitely recommend that did you um I was just thinking because I always like to try McDonald's everywhere I go around the world was there

30:43
No not at all

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you Chris

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I am a badge

30:51
so what did what did you start from the post

30:53
it was instant yeah so so do it what's the you know what what was the food food like how I tried a

31:05
year to to sort of company took care of it all and every restaurant to go to understand the like

31:10
pretty fucking loved it you probably a cheap fade they're like shit fat and protein like you know beefs expensive it was it was really all like one restaurant we went to the

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dogs who was an option A few people had some dog food

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and yeah it was lovely like it was lots of I'm black what to call pickles and noodles like rice and torture and like really

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had his shoe box Boston flavor is really is really

31:43
interesting. Yeah, I just can't help but think like,

31:47
I mean, people looking at a dictatorship and they think maybe there was some things that I've got right here. It's not like it's a good system. They know there is people that look like the whole the order

31:59
the wondering do you think people sort of conflicting you know, Paul political system with Paul standard living or something like that. Like that.

32:12
But like, yeah, it's a you know,

32:16
and there was there was a time when your food or anything. Yeah, and there was a time when North Korea was sort of economically doing really well, even compared to the south. So

32:27
after the just after the after the war. Yeah, North Korea was far outpacing South Korea

32:37
and yeah, I sort of after the USSR collapsed,

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and this sort of North Korea lost a lot of its funding and things like that. Yeah, it was like us trade and all that sort of stagnated was yeah

32:52
and so the the the tour guides and talking to different people with a saying with a commenting on this you know, the peninsula sorry, the Korean Peninsula summit and all that sort of thing where they were it was like sort of all over the years

33:11
and yeah i mean they were like sort of having some t shirts with the other guys with Korean guys are talking to you know, talking about lightning talks and everything sort of why

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it was a very sort of

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sort of hope for sort of like

33:29
kind of chats and yeah yeah yeah.

33:33
cries for help it could have been seen as

33:36
helpers we're in a dictatorship get us out of a it's really interesting it's

33:48
crowded city and achievements and everything so it's more it's more like

33:56
yeah I don't think they see even though they're sort of like

34:03
now I know it's like enable three like turning to the actual supply ball Have you been seeing is more like let's do this like yeah other than being like oh my god place of us yeah thing and i like i like i said like, this is just my pocket I caught her someone who went there for a few days so obviously, but maybe like that

34:23
people who were there they don't know any different it's only until you know how different it can be for yourself or it's like employees you

34:31
know, like versus being self employed, right? Like sometimes we can be like fuck How do you do it like how do people work for other people could never do like it never it can never go back to the thing is that it's like some people just fucking lovers. Some people like having direction and clear order and all of that sort of

34:50
like the comparison to people who work for somebody has been chief

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scientist. side side side side anything else crazy curse that up. You know you would like to share or you think you would be

35:12
the biggest the biggest shocks me was like going through the park and like yet, just like really liked a trunk. Locals just like dancing with everyone getting voice within it was like really weird. And yeah,

35:25
what we've learned to North Korean pop song in the box that they will love you love hot eyes emojis.

35:34
Did they know anything about Australia?

35:37
Oh, we didn't ask because like, I can't speak Korean.

35:41
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's mostly just like to dance and be like, thank you. Like just like have cheese and from a sleeping arrangement point of view. Did you sleep in the hotel that sort of in that middle of the island thing?

35:55
Yes. Yes. Yeah, that is Yeah, that's what we started it's it's so weird hotel. Yeah,

36:02
the hotel Yeah, give us a bit

36:05
it's so popular it's so it's like it's like all design elements of the at the same time

36:13
it's sort of this like really at shake at some point but then like really 60s like mid century modern this

36:22
um it's just weird like just sign we'd like beautiful like if you're into that sort of hotel aesthetic

36:29
it's the best Western

36:33
five it's like a like a like a low key luxurious it without yeah really bizarre okay lectures did they have out of curiosity Did you look at a on like TripAdvisor people leaving reviews

36:46
or the hotel yeah

36:50
and did you get a sense I know that people talk about things been all wired up so that you know you you are basically being listened to all the time surveillance any interesting little quirks like that that you noticed

37:06
not really

37:09
yeah now I like we kind of joked about it like

37:14
it's kind of like we're just checking out like we just assume would be watched yeah

37:21
yeah it's just like it's just like a really sort of like we died at his hotel the life really beautiful

37:29
and you sort of get that out yeah give

37:33
me one other thing that just came to mind about the older nuclear testing and stuff like that it's pretty far away from young Yang right but is there was there any concern of or did they mention the

37:45
that I mean a few like when we went to a few sort of micro sites

37:53
you know tour guide I just being like mentioning something about like you know under Kim Jong one fly under the radar say great later like leader Kim Jong Hoon cycle leadership, you know, now we have, you know, the world's longest range ballistic missile,

38:08
you know, to protect ourselves from,

38:12
you know, American addresses and stuff like that.

38:17
And that was sort of like the first sort of explicit mention in nuclear weapons.

38:21
But then we went to the DMCA that was like what those are because those really

38:26
like hand painted propaganda posters that like

38:30
yeah, they were sort of like sort of his idols and stuff like crushing us and really anti American stuff. Yeah.

38:39
And where can people find out if they want to see the photos that you talk when you are Yeah, yes,

38:45
I was probably my Instagram is I'm just at Chris Moses. Yeah,

38:51
she also like to see my talk I mentioned Matt he's loved his baby and he's at Matt Kolesov ke el as today and also done pioneer to finishes at young pioneer yeah they're pretty good as well yeah

39:09
yeah yeah from day you can just look like a similar tests if you like North Korea every day and stuff like that it's just sort of like a North Koreans

39:18
just gave you just

39:19
gave you a follow Chris gives a follow back right bro follow follow follow up I'm sorry. Sorry.

39:25
every guest

39:30
safer pieces

39:36
when you back in Melbourne will have to. He's out of the fucking UK. He's not coming back. You said seven weeks, seven weeks. And then he's moving to the UK. You moved to the UK? Yeah. Yeah.

39:48
Awesome. What's the plan

39:54
thanks so much for being on the daily talk show. And good luck. Cheers. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Interesting. Yeah, man. Please like I feel like we're we're not well positioned to ask the hard hitting questions but I know also don't think Chris is necessarily the person to ask the hard hitting questions right

40:17
yeah 100% and you know like I don't think there is no truth to what has been put out there yeah and I think that they probably have the habit like it's not a show but I think it's definitely like a dictatorship would create some kind of environment maybe like he's describing maybe that will is what a dictatorship does yeah it makes it seem like everything is fucking running smoothly because no one wants to step out a line then he just like

40:45
the daily talk show like you No one knows the fear that I drawn to you

40:50
guys if you've got an interesting guests that you think we should if you've got an interesting contact and you think that would be a sick guest yeah please send us an email hybrid talk show.com because we're always looking at we had to cry copper on we've got we've had had some great guests onwards and upwards Yeah, guys. Hope show everyone. Thanks for listening.