Massaged like a bread roll

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, it's episode 81. I'm Josh Janson. Tommy Jacket, that's his name.

Tommy: Um, did you think my name was real?

Josh: No, I'm sure you would have actually seen— actually, you wouldn't know this, but I was, um, filling out a form. You're working on a job, uh, with me.

Tommy: Oh, it's one of those ones you need to fill in their name.

Josh: Yeah, there's a work cover. Yeah, I, uh, Thomas Jacket.

Tommy: Oh, you hit the Thomas.

Josh: Yeah, I just thought, because if there's an ID and you know how like some people are pedantic with IDs Yeah, I'm not saying that, that's not his name, dude.

Tommy: I got booked flights to LA years ago under Tommy Jacket. My passport says Thomas, didn't make a difference.

Josh: Oh, interesting.

Tommy: I didn't even think— I got there and I was like, oh shit, yeah, I think this way, this way please. Interesting. Um, mate, fuck, you saw the snap, you saw the Instagram storey of me nearly fucking burning my hair off.

Josh: Yeah, not ideal.

Tommy: Well, we, we're playing catch-up because we had Craig Harper on yesterday, but we haven't even talked about this I, you know what, the thing is, I, I, you probably would have brought it up earlier, but I saw you see it on my Insta. I saw you see it on my Insta feed. I was just testing because if you said no, I didn't see it, I would have been like, bullshit, motherfucker, I saw you.

Josh: Yeah, so you've burnt your hair.

Tommy: What a fucking idiot. I, the thing is, this is what happened, painting the picture, um, candles lit around the house, one in the bathroom. Promise it wasn't covering up the smell, but It was.

Josh: It's okay if it was.

Tommy: And I— And we had the candle, it's like a little one next to the tap.

Josh: And you always have that lit. Do you turn them off when you go out or like blow them out?

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. Some— We've forgotten that one a few times.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But it's in a tin, so it could last forever. And it's in the bathroom next to like—

Josh: Why can it last forever if it's in a tin?

Tommy: Well, the tin's not going to break. Glass can smash. Glass can crack.

Josh: Well, it won't last forever. Like if you run out of— Fucking witch.

Tommy: Yeah, it's like, last forever is me saying like, it lasts forever. It's like, it'll go until it fucking runs out of juice.

Josh: Yeah, it's not the same as lasting forever.

Tommy: Well, hey, it's a nuance of my marketing for Amy's Candles. They last forever.

Josh: They last forever.

Tommy: This thing didn't last forever.

Josh: Yeah, mate, that only had 20 hours. Mate, I was— it was a saying.

Tommy: Anyway, I drink from the tap quite often and I put my head down to drink from the tap and the candle fucking caught my hair on fire.

Josh: Did it Did it actually light up?

Tommy: It lit up and I, and I put my head up and it was fizzing and I could smell it. I smelt it before I fucking saw it, which was the worst bit.

Josh: Have you got hair? Do you wear hair product?

Tommy: No.

Josh: If you did, it would have been fucking—

Tommy: As if I was like a Guido, Geordie Shore, you know, sprays their hair.

Josh: Well, that happened with Michael Jackson, didn't it? That's how he—

Tommy: It was a Pepsi commercial.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And they had fireworks and he got—

Josh: yeah, but because he had so much hairspray in, that's why it was probably a wig too.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe.

Josh: Was he a wig guy?

Tommy: Love Michael Jackson. Bizarre dude though. Anyway, I fucking burnt these and then Amy came, comes in, couldn't tell what was going on, we could smell it. It was fucked. Hair was like literally— I was pulling out, I had like a big chunk of hair and then the sink, there was just ash.

Josh: Do you see any aesthetics? Any—

Tommy: I said to Amy, she go— and she goes, she grabs it, oh my God, what what's this big spot? And then she was just trolling me about my receding hairline. It was a good joke, I appreciated it, but not ideal.

Josh: Well, I spent, um, given we're doing weekend catch-ups, uh, I went away on the weekend, Daylesford, did the, um, did spa treatment. Like, I'm not much of a massage guy. Do you do— What?

Tommy: I, I don't know, I, I should relax a bit more. Yeah, and get massages, but I don't know, I haven't really Unless it's been because of an injury, I haven't done it for my relaxation.

Josh: I can't help but like start to laugh. Like I just, just the, not even though, I just think of storeys in my head or just like come up or just, so I'm like laying down flat in the bed and you sort of have your arms resting underneath on the rest of you.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've had a massage, you know what's going on. You know what's going on.

Josh: And they, she just comes along and just sort of puts like This fragrance just sort of like dabs it on your hands so it all smells nice. But just all these things were just really fucking funny.

Tommy: If you're overthinking the process, you fucked it.

Josh: I was overthinking the whole thing. And the reason was because I decided to get a bamboo massage. Have you ever had one of these?

Tommy: So, what do they use? I'm guessing they use a roller and they roll it on you.

Josh: Well, I wasn't sure at first. I was expecting like big sticks that they sort of hit you with. I didn't know, like some sort of like ceremonial sort of fucking stick thing. But yeah, you're spot on. It was like a bamboo roller. But the thing was that I'd eaten so much bread because, you know, you're staying away, nice place. They give you everywhere you go, basically, you open up a door, it's like, oh, fresh bread, like fucking everywhere.

Tommy: You got given a gift, which was very lovely from somebody and You would never stay at the Faces Hotel.

Josh: No, you'd never pay.

Tommy: $1,000 a night?

Josh: Yeah, it was crazy. So, I was, yeah, there's fucking fresh bread with like a little bit of butter and honey and shit.

Tommy: And no doubt it was your cheat day.

Josh: Yeah, oh, it was a cheat weekend. But the thing was like just laying there, I literally felt like dough as she was like rolling me out. I felt like I was literally like, I was waiting for her to like dust me with flour.

Tommy: I'd be worried I'd drop my gout.

Josh: That is literally, I was meditating on the words, don't fart, don't fart, don't fart.

Tommy: It's better than don't crack a hard on.

Josh: I feel like it's, um, yeah, I feel, I felt pretty safe in not getting a hard on. It just isn't that, like, you're, um, I feel like I'm too anxious about everything that's going on, or just like thinking about things in my head. Like, I told her, said, is there anything, you know, I should know? I'm like, oh,, if I get hot, I get a heat rash sometimes. So, if you see hives, don't stress. You said that? I said that. And there was a point where she did like bring over this fan, like, I hear shh, and there were— She turned on, it was really nice, cool air on me. So, it was nice.

Tommy: Was Bree in the room?

Josh: Yeah, it was like a couple thing. She was getting a different experience. But the really funny—

Tommy: Sven was working on her.

Josh: Exactly. But the funny thing was that I had told Bri about the bamboo sticks thing. That's what I thought it was. And she laughed and said, "No, it's not like that." But the funny thing is they do have sort of this thing where it's like a massage reset halfway through where they do have these sticks and they just lightly like hit you with it. But the funny thing is you hear the sounds and it sounds like exactly what I thought it was going to happen. And I couldn't help but just like, apparently Bri was laughing too. Just this idea that I'm lying there and they're whacking me with them. Bamboo straw.

Tommy: Was she laughing?

Josh: Yeah, she was. She said she was holding it in and sort of doing— Her body was sort of shaking.

Tommy: Interesting.

Josh: But I find with all of these different things that people tend to undercommunicate, like in the sense of staying at really nice places or fancy restaurants, the user experience for whatever reason is normally shit, right? Like, so, for instance, we had a 3-course meal included with the whole thing and you go to the fancy restaurant and shit like that. But there's 4 courses on the menu, right? And so, they never make it clear, like I always feel like they undercommunicate what's going on. So, I'm like, okay, there's 4. What do we— Are we— Do we pick the last one?

Tommy: The hard thing is, I think when people have money, there's— Everyone's different. So, there's the person that's got money, doesn't want to be spoken to.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That just wants to read the menu and dine with their friend. Or partner, whatever. And then there's you, the thinker, who wants to be nurtured. And so, there'd be restaurants that are fully like, take you on this immersive journey, we'll explain everything to you.

Josh: But I don't like that either. Like, I fucking hate it.

Tommy: What do you like then?

Josh: I don't know what I want. I'm just a pain in the ass. But no, it's like, you know, you go into the room, you go into these fancy rooms and they show you around like a real fucking idiot. Like, oh, here's the window. They just over-explain everything in that regard. But the restaurants and the massage type of thing, I feel like they're what I would like. So, after the massage finished, they're like, "Oh, thank you so much." Like, we go out into this little reception bit and you're like, they ask, "Do you want sparkling or still?" And I got sparkling water and you're drinking it. And they're like, they sort of have this end thing where like, "Oh yeah, thanks so much. Did you enjoy it? Blah, blah, blah. Well, have a lovely day." And they sort of walk away. And I said to Bri, I'm like, do we, Do we just leave? Do we just go now? It just wasn't clear. I just feel like— And fancy restaurants, I think, fall for this too, where it's like the user experience isn't always that great. Like they've gone so fancy that they've forgotten just the obvious shit. Like they overcomplicate stuff. Yeah.

Tommy: No, I know what you mean. It's— but looking at the internals of a business like a restaurant at the top end, yeah, so much stress managing people, so many different personalities, waiters, guests like you, but food fucking up.

Josh: Well, I just feel like, you know, we're asking like what's— because we had our first night dinner included and then they said, um hear some recommendations from some other places around. They're all talking about hats, like, oh, this one has a hat, or so, or this one's very close to getting a hat. Very close to getting it. He's like, mate, this one doesn't have a hat, but they should have a hat. I'm like, what the fuck are we talking about? Why do I care?

Tommy: It's irrelevant then to actually get in the first place.

Josh: Why the fuck do I— have they been listening to my podcast where I said that I'm no longer a hat guy? Because I don't know why they keep talking about it.

Tommy: I think the easy bit is looking into a business and seeing the fucking flaws. And, and, you know, Gordon Ramsay's got his own show about this. He just comes in, tells people what the fuck they're doing wrong.

Josh: Oh, it's—

Tommy: I would, I would thrive in that scenario because it's, it's easy throwing that out there.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I'm not, I'm not saying you shouldn't judge because I think your experience is your experience.

Josh: But my experience is, and where I'm, you know, coming to the point, is that I don't necessarily value fancy. I like, if I think about all the, you know, you travel and you'll do one night at a really nice restaurant or stuff like that. We did that in New York or different, different places. And the best experiences that I've had has been the hole-in-the-wall fucking like taco joint in San Diego, standing around eating them. Yeah. And so that's the thing, the fancy I do not value. Like, you spend fucking a couple of hundred bucks at a fancy restaurant or you spend like $30 at some other place. I just don't think that there is a correlation between how much you spend and the experience that you're going to have.

Tommy: Imagine the people that are eating at restaurants that are those top end, 5 days a week, how delusional they become.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because you would. And delusional, not in a bad sense, but just that's your reality. Versus, you know, not having to put a fucking napkin on your, on your crotch.

Josh: Yeah, but it's— I just find it all a little like, it's a bit wanky, it's a bit invasive.

Tommy: If I, I make— from your personality and bringing that in, it's quite intimate. Yeah, there's levels of bits where they're getting close. I, I don't know if that's what they're all about.

Josh: I think they just said something like, they say something, oh, it's like, oh, let's, um, I can't remember, just around like the wine list. It's all a bit wanky. And like, because we did—

Tommy: I love the theatre of that though. I love them talking about the wine. I don't even give a shit. I'm more impressed that they fucking have this knowledge in their head.

Josh: Well, they're like, would you like to take— because we had a red wine or whatever and they were like—

Tommy: You started drinking?

Josh: Just red wine. That's where I dropped it. Because I feel like I've got an addictive personality and I'm sort of like, it's either red wine or methylated spirits. I don't want to get there.

Tommy: So, I've got one hand on the metho bottle as well. It's got the kids' lock so you just can't open it yet.

Josh: So, no, but they do the whole the whole like, "Oh, would you like to try it?" I'm just like, "No, man, I trust you." I just, I trust you. But I don't know, I think that it's sometimes it's this overcomplication of things. What I like is just really simple, like simple menus to understand. I love fucking, that's what I love about In-N-Out Burger. It's like you've got like Double Double, you got fucking cheeseburger, like you've got these really easy things.

Tommy: Did you grow up in the suburbs? Can you believe it? Keep it simple, guys. Fish and chips. Friday night, keep it real simple.

Josh: What's the fanciest restaurant you've ever been to?

Tommy: I've been to ones in New York that were quite fancy. I mean, Donovan's is quite fancy. I haven't been to the, you know, 10-course Digger Station, but I want to. I would like that, but I don't know, man. People would look at the places I've been, and I haven't even been to the top end. And think about how much money I've wasted. Yeah, but I enjoy the experience. So if you don't enjoy the experience, don't fucking waste your money. Nobu, that's pretty—

Josh: yeah, we've been there.

Tommy: That's nice.

Josh: Japanese, is it?

Tommy: It's Japanese, I think.

Josh: Do they have one in London?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I think we went to London.

Josh: They had like a big ice crystal fucking thing. But I like doing it once as an experience, but then I'm happy just to go to fucking regular regular places.

Tommy: I just want to shift the gear.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, and show you something that it might require us to put the audio in.

Josh: A pain in the ass, but go on.

Tommy: But I am a pain in the ass, but I think it's interesting. And this is, um, a video that was created by Channel 9, which is in Australia one of the, you know, big networks, television networks. I just think they've just missed the beat completely. And that's all I'll leave you with to start with, but I'll show you it and I'll do the best I can.

Josh: You don't have to do the— just keep the mic on you. Okay, okay.

Tommy: Here it is.

Josh: You want to know what I love about Nine? How much time have you got?

Tommy: You know what? I think I've got something for that. It's simple.

Josh: The people.

Tommy: I learn something new every day. Nine is really like a home away from home. I love the fun and vibrant culture. We all help to create that. No matter how big the company gets, it's always felt like family. That's why I love being a part of Nine. The calibre of staff we attract on all levels is inspiring. Though sometimes he does remind me of having an annoying little brother.

Josh: We're encouraged to experiment with the latest technology across the business.

Tommy: Means I'm constantly learning, and that's how you stay one step ahead and lead change and drive this industry forward. To shape the future of the Australian media landscape. Yeah, that's all I'll give you.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So, this is the first comment on the video by a guy who— this is on LinkedIn, mind you.

Josh: So, this is— to give you— give people context, this is the first time I'm seeing it, but this is the standard sort of employer brand video, which is like, we are— we need to sell why we're a good employer and we're going to have a bunch of people who work for us say why it's such a good place to work.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess that's what the thinking is. And this, this is a guy named Ben Parsons. He—

Josh: I know Ben.

Tommy: He wrote, I'm lost as to why this was created. Feels like a combination of HR and an on-air promo. Maybe follow Jules Lund and make it authentic. So what I was thinking is like, I don't know if like— so that's a polished video, high production value, polished video. I'm trying to work out if they're if they can exist together, this high production value and authentic. Yeah, because they have not hit the authentic part there because all of that scripted. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it seems so inauthentic.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that Ben's comment I think is all around how they've done the opposite and it's come from one of the biggest networks. And maybe that's where it's like there's no— maybe that's why it's happened.

Josh: Yeah, well, I guess that it comes back to what we spoke about on that episode around storyboarding and scripting and things like that. And it's like having a script doesn't mean a higher production value. I mean, what is production value? In some of it, it's getting an authentic, uh, telling an authentic story.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so they've, they've prioritised messaging and creating a script and making sure that it's all dialled in versus the performance. And the performance, if it's an authentic one, needs to be people saying things that they actually believe. Believe. Yeah. But not only believe that they're not being sort of told to say. Yeah.

Tommy: Which it seems like they got all told to say what they just said.

Josh: Yeah. And even if they believe it, it comes across as a little bit scripted.

Tommy: So, maybe it's because of the landscape that we're in now. So, this is a digital ad. It's not a television commercial that's going to be shown on the format of TV. Maybe they've just missed the mark so much with it being on the— in it within the digital realm with the way they've produced that. And I think, you know, the only interest— maybe this isn't interesting for other people, but I do think that everyone's striving for authentic content, or at least real messages being shared that, that are honest.

Josh: I find what I find more interesting is that Ben has sort of had a go, don't you think? I think that like it's pretty, um, you know, going out there and knowing that someone within a team has created this. There's a team that's created this and he's basically calling them out and saying this is fucking bullshit. Um, did they have any comments?

Tommy: No, well, they haven't written back, but someone wrote in response to him referring to Jules Lund's videos. Jules Lund's videos are authentic because he runs a business that thrives on everyone creating content. This is authentic because Nine thrive on professionally produced content, so that's terrible advice. I see his point, but I think they're trying to sell in, so they're taking a— it's like maybe not everyone should approach content— you know, not everyone's business should be trying to offer up educational style content.

Josh: Well, no, I think that authenticity is about being true to you, and probably that is what you'd expect from Channel 9, to be honest. So, I think that in that regard—

Tommy: But are they trying to take an approach of a new age approach?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Have they got that wrong?

Josh: Well, I think that they're potentially— they're creating, they're bringing their personality. It's like you've got a guy in a suit doing a vlog, it's going to— Casey Neistat. But if you look at that, there's a specific, you know, there's a— At the moment, when we think of vlogging, we think that the person has this sort of certain aesthetic. They need to be casual. They need to be this. How would the President of the United States, how would Donald Trump do— How could he use vlogging in an authentic way? It would be really fucking hard, wouldn't it? The reason I bring up—

Tommy: I'd love to fucking watch it.

Josh: The reason I bring up Trump, I've been watching this great fucking Netflix series that goes through his life. Amazing, like really amazing if you've got time. It's— we've gone through a couple of episodes, but just his, you know, the— how he basically took on New York real estate and the stuff that he did in Manhattan, and then later what he did in Vegas and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: But so you're saying the format of a vlog would be out of alignment with who he is? Donald Trump as a brand.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: And so do you think this example from Nine is out of alignment? Not for the— so the style is definitely not out of alignment. Yeah. The style of that video is definitely the what you would expect to see from a production company like Channel 9.

Josh: I think there's two parts. There's their style, their personality, and then there is the realm in which they're playing in. So for instance, Hamish Blake, funny dude, put him in a funeral, talking at a funeral, he will be adapting to that situation that he's in, right? So a comedian in a funeral environment, will he be cracking as many jokes? Will he be doing— No, you sort of change, change the tone. And so potentially what's happened here is they're playing it on, uh, online, and there's a disconnect between their personality, what's core to them, and where they're playing. So, it's a tricky one. They, you know, maybe they need to adjust. Yeah. But the, I mean, the other thing too is who is, you got to ask who is their audience.

Tommy: Maybe they haven't even asked that, right?

Josh: And so, maybe Ben isn't their audience. Ben's maybe looking at it from a broader point of view and saying, okay, is this, you know, he doesn't find it appealing or he thinks that it's not Yeah, so the lesson for taking out of that is I—

Tommy: because I did think around the audience thing, I don't know if they've got that dialled in.

Josh: Yeah, but—

Tommy: and so for the— any style, it's like going, should you create a vlog? It's like the Donald Trump thing. People contact me about creating that kind of content, and then sometimes they are accountants. Yeah, and I'm not sure if that suits the style of business that they're in or the brand that they've got because the messages that they want to share aren't in alignment with that style. Well, they need to hit their audience because I don't know who the audience is.

Josh: Yeah, I think you need to be you and whatever that is. And so that means you can't be adjusting too much. You know, I think that these specific styles enhance whoever you are. And so, you know, I've spoken about this I remember doing it. Turn off your fucking text message. And you read it too. The, um, no, it's— I remember saying it on LinkedIn. It's like video will enhance or elevate people's personalities in the sense of if you are a dickhead and you make a video, you'll probably look like more of a dickhead. If you are someone who's interesting, then that will come up too. So, I think that video has the opportunity to put a spotlight on people.

Tommy: It's polarising in the way you share it.

Josh: And I think that the other point too is you've got to think about how these people might be just completely out of their depth. So, who is being asked to make that video? Is HR being told we need to make this, or HR saying we need to make this video and they're producing it? Because they're— they don't necessarily have the chops, the storytelling chops, to be able to, you know, to tell that storey in that medium. And so that constantly happens even with video production companies where it's like, what you're paying for when you come to Full Stack Films is the fact that I've made a dozen of these types of videos, and they're not just going to be a scripted piece. We'll understand what the business is and we'll tell that storey in authentic, in an authentic way.

Tommy: Someone's got to be up for that though, right? And they're usually the ones that get the results, uh, being up for having someone along for the whole process. Because you can imagine someone has just gone, right, we need this style done now.

Josh: Yeah, go. But I could see that even though that that might not be that effective, how much time they would have spent on that, like in getting all the different, like scripting it is actually almost harder because they're going through and saying, okay, we need this person to to say that and that. And I get it. I actually think that it's a, um, it's a hybrid what they've created, and that's what's made it hard. So they've created what would normally be a reel that they would sort of— a corporate reel that they might be able to send to clients, you know, that advertise on their network. And they've tried to merge it with an employer brand, which is going to be potential employees.

Tommy: I think, you know, everyone's trying to cater to the craving for authentic content, but it's just making sure that that is your authentic voice, finding your authentic voice.

Josh: Yeah, and because I don't think that even having done stuff with, um, uh, a neurosurgeon recently, you know, filming him, he's not necessarily a vlogging style too. He's got credibility, he's got like— do you want your— the medical professional to be holding a camera and being a loose unit? And so, I think that—

Tommy: Yeah, not the guys opening up your back.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Or your head.

Josh: And so, I think that that is part of it too, right? So, yeah, I don't know. I think that it's— This is their first step and they'll— I think that we just see this so many times where it's like old-school media coming in and trying to play this game and they'll get it wrong initially. I think that it's a good step, though. I think that at least them doing this and the comment from Ben, That, that means that next time they'll do it, they'll actually maybe do something that's a little bit better.

Tommy: Man, it's the hardest thing about making is putting it out there because people will— not even that I'm criticising them, it's just like having thoughts around their approach. And it helps, yeah, if you're willing to take the advice on board. But what's harder is fucking posting it, as you know, someone else has pressed the button on that. There's 40 people involved in a video like that, whereas when it's your own piece of content. It's usually just you and yourself pressing go and doing everything, and that's hard.

Josh: I think the other thing that's hard and that I've been thinking a bit about is that starting bit and whether when it gets too late to start. So, podcasting, for instance, you know, I, you know, we've spoken about this before. I've, you know, started podcasting in 2005. I had my first podcast. It was fucking terrible. 11. You were 11. I was 15. Yeah, 15 years old creating— Not far off 11. Oh, shit. I was creating a podcast then, and then I had a real crack at it in probably like 2011, where I was 21, so it was a little bit better. And the Daily Talk Show we've started in 2018, and a part of me before we started, I'm like, is it too late? Is it too late to start? Have we missed the boat? I mean, what's your thought on that type of thing?

Tommy: No, because I, I still think that people aren't quite there yet with it. Yeah, I was talking to my friend the other day about all the money that would have been wasted from investors, venture capitalists, in creating platforms for podcasts back in 2012. Yeah, and that was too early. And I think, you know, there's some now that are coming on board, maybe they're too early, but it's definitely becoming ingrained. Like, so many more people— maybe it's that we're into it and we have one. Yeah, but so many more people are now into like podcasts, just knowing what it is, knowing what they are and what they bring and where their place— the place is when you're driving or when you have, you know, when you're going on a walk or a run. Like, this is now— people are wanting to learn his storeys in longer form more.

Josh: Yeah, well, I even think about it. I was— I, uh, I've been listening to Game Changers a bit, uh, which is Created by a guy named Craig Bruce, who you know, and he's, you know, one of the top content guys in the radio world in Australia. He was one of the people who sort of discovered Hamish and Andy and all that sort of thing. It's interesting hearing them talk about radio. And one of the things that I've been taking from it is, or what I've been thinking about and reflecting on is, right, Hamish and Andy created a show in, say, 2005, let's say around that time. Radio has been around for how many fucking years, right? Radio's been around, like, you can type in old radio and listen to fucking AM shows from the '20s and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: So, radio is a, just a device, right?

Josh: Yeah, it's a medium.

Tommy: So, it's even on that medium, it's changed what's happened to it. So, it's, yeah, it's a very long time.

Josh: And so, the thing is that it wasn't like H&A was saying, oh, it's fucking too late. Like, the funny thing is that podcasting is, what, 12 years old, something like that, 14 years old. How funny is it that we start thinking it's too fucking late, we've missed the boat, right? And I think that YouTube in some regards, these sorts of platforms are starting to, even Instagram, you know, even Jules talks about it from Tribe, you know, creating that, having that Instagram following that some people have, just isn't there as an opportunity now because of algorithms and stuff like that.

Tommy: So the, the lateness, meaning because people will still be on these and be successful on these platforms. Yeah, but more so on what was happening on the platform. So yeah, Instagram, it was just open, they had it open, it was sharing itself. It's basically, it's like LinkedIn. Video was doing really well for a short period because it was spreading the LinkedIn video feature.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so if you could ride that, and so, but I think consistency, we've talked about that long game with podcasting. If you are actually up for it, yeah, I don't think it's too late.

Josh: Yeah, I think that, and that's the key, is it's like, what's the other option? If it's too late to start, what else are you gonna fucking do?

Tommy: And so I think that it's like, it's an easy statement to throw the towel in. Too late.

Josh: Yeah, well, and then what are you gonna do, right? Like, I think that we are, um, and I think that especially when you are an early, early adopter you can get quite, um, jaded by the whole thing and fucking— your eyes get sore from just fucking rolling them back into your head as you think about like the fact of like you hear people talking about podcasting and getting excited now. And I, I really do think about being 2004 when I started listening to them.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And just being like, are you fucking kidding me? Like how much things have changed.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And, um, You know, it's that I wrote that. I think one of the reasons we're doing this podcast right now is because of that note that I put on my desk at the beginning of the year, which was knowing isn't doing. And so you can know that fucking podcasting is great, it's gonna be the next big thing and all that sort of thing, but why aren't you fucking leveraging it? And so that's what I'm trying to do more of. It's like if I believe in these things, if I have these hypotheses around this is what's gonna be the future, why the fuck am I giving all this information to clients or other people or coaching other people and getting them on the way?

Tommy: And you also don't have to be number one. I think maybe the thought around, oh, it's too late is, oh, it's too late to be PewDiePie on YouTube, the biggest YouTuber in the world, 60 million subscribers. What if you had 10%, no, 10%, fucking 6 million.

Josh: We never do fucking maths on this show.

Tommy: No, but I was trying to go lower, it's like 1%, 6,000 subscribers. That's fucking good. Yeah. And so, but if you're trying to think about being number one, you're at the front, you got on the first boat. There's plenty of little ships sailing out. I know you got your back with that analogy metaphor.

Josh: I love him. Bring him back. But no, I think that it's, it's like this, right?

Tommy: It's, um, he's gonna one-up me with another one.

Josh: No, you just gotta, you gotta see this. What's that? Safe tattoos, right? No, listen to this. So tattoos, right? Say tattoos became really popular in 2015. Yeah, the opportunity in 2018 is that you can get— you have seen the trend, you've been able to hone it, you've been able to get something.

Tommy: I got a face tat 2015.

Josh: Exactly. And you know what, now it's all about the bicep, so you can take that knowledge. So for me, what I'm excited about is maybe if in '05 we were doing a YouTube channel, we would have had to do something a certain way. But now we're actually taking it in a new direction, and we can only do that because of the context we have now. And when you start something, starting something's almost putting a bit of a post in saying, this is what we stand for. And I think that by starting now has opened up different opportunities than a podcast 10 years ago.

Tommy: The tattoo one fell flat. Sorry about that.

Josh: That's right.

Tommy: I still got the point, though. It's great that you can even just fall flat in one but still nail home a point.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Please send us your emails, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. And we're also posting on Instagram a lot more now, so please follow us on Instagram. It's The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: I actually feel sorry for the guy that got the face tattooed in 2015.

Josh: He's doing fine.