#124 – Leon Sjogren & The Mastinators/
- July 6, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Friday July 6 (Ep 124) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
Our mate Leon Sjogren is one of the best radio Executive Producers in Australia. Tommy worked with him back in the day on the street team and Josh worked with him on the Fifi and Jules drive show. We cover everything from the schedule of a breakfast producer to coming out as Bi.
Leon on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/leonsjogren/
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Wait a minute cross face
conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket
daily talk show everyone this is one of the pre records
we've got a special guest
hang on I didn't even make to the daily I'm just one of the
yeah so this is Leon chagrin on the show now we were just pre recording the guest ones because when way
yeah currently Josh is sunning himself in you say sunning himself in making off yeah or somewhere within Europe
there we go yeah I've got a dedicated is dn line yeah
we're gonna be budget for the show Leon price would you be
I was even thinking wouldn't be right to me, which is like if the internet's really shit which is what I'm going to be relying on to do that where our brain knows but we're going to be going to breeze in the room that's why so is it but no London and then to Italy easily and then we're going to do like Eastern Europe, Montenegro and a bunch of other places. So I know that Vodafone in Italy's got the fastest 4g
Yes, a 70 over nearly
no, that's where it's at. So um, anyway, that's we've decided that we're banking on guest ones because it's good to have it in person. Thank you. And, and we'll put these out if there's any either one
to desert land. Do you remember the days of us working on the street team?
I fondly remember that. You remember the day it sounded
like people are going to say hi, I thought you didn't edit the show. But Tommy's managed to do split sounds like an abrupt to edit because I
really boring Thank you so much.
Leon and I worked at Fox FM the early days on the street team delivering ice cold cans of coke. Yeah, that was that will say
that like as a joke, but we actually did
exactly that. There was this one she thought that you and I did. I want to know if you remember it was after the Christmas party. I was so hung over and you were so hungover. And we were driving out to where Josh? Barrick were in Merrick. Yeah. And we were at some chicken shop. And it was hell. I don't remember
that one. I like a lot of the shifts were hung over.
But I don't remember that one specifically.
Not that that scared me. It was I think it was towards the end of my career as a straight tamer. Yeah, but it was hell and you were there with me. So I'm glad I found you today because of my Eastern and you drive which take this
I've never met someone that could drive so well. completely drunk.
No. I didn't say drunk.
Yeah, I just like you can practice the past
or the straight.
The Bat when we used to drive the straight, same cars that would have like Hamish and Andy on the side like a decals. People legit thought I was Hamish Hamish and Andy are in there. Yeah,
exactly. What they do is driver and cows with their faces.
Well, funny you say that because I was pitching to Tommy to have the daily talk show in a decal, but I've quoted it up too expensive. How much 2800
was the Jacob animated? Like your faces? Yeah.
Yeah. So well, it was gonna be that's pretty
sit like, No offence. Not many people know what you look like.
That's why we need to get our face out there. Okay, you could avoid it sort of like a, you know, new new team to the market. And
I was just thinking you've literally done the call seek work your way up from the straight team. Yeah. a legitimate role within the radio stage. Yeah,
it's December this year will be 10 years in the company.
View after 10 years.
Yet long service leave?
No. Yeah, to be you have to have been an employee. We were just casual
boy, because I was a panellist.
I actually don't know if you know this, but I was I started off at Fox FM, the radio station, as a panel of writers are pressing the buttons for shows like like the night shows, like jack post. Yeah, yesterday. And in Jan. carolling. JACK, and it said, No, I wanted. I wanted some extra cash. And I want to get more job my hours within the radio station. So I applied for the straight team. Just I can do that as well. And I got rejected. Why? Because I was told. I was told they wanted me to focus on panelling. There's not many people could do it. And then about a month later, four people quit at the same time.
All right, this this
one's with Leon. And I work together for LeBron James. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. memories. Yeah. Leon saying it with a smile on your face. What do you remember that?
Whenever you say that, I just remember you in shape costume.
So what were you doing at the time?
I was a junior producer on that radio show faith angels.
Yeah. And I was new. I was the digital content producer. And I was the classic. Trying to ways all content ideas here on air was very hard for me to get to do any social media stuff. But I've always had a phone. I always want to be the talent
with a vibe of Josh wanting to be on air.
Absolutely. I'm still convinced the time that he pitched his parents. He did that on purpose for content. Yeah.
Wouldn't offer content wouldn't put it past. Okay. So then at that point, you're a junior producer. Yeah. And then then he moved to Sydney.
Then I was an eighth of the AP of the national Dr. Show when
Dan of instals finished famous rock
and then went to Sydney with Danny Meyer's to do breakfast, for nine months in racks. And then do like a month from Robin Sam and then went to triple M and work with Merrick
that was the link for the show, wasn't it one month of ravens hair? And
is already has said prior I dm Tim today saying hey, what can I say? Can you come on the show? He said, Well, he didn't say Yes, right away. He said I just don't want to go into sort of the writing the political side of the radio stuff. Because if you within the local context, it's been very popular for radio personalities or going on a podcast and thinking that it's just some conversation as a recorded look. People just don't realise it being recorded. Yeah. So it's a
I'm happy to I'm just talking about where I've come from where I am. Yeah. I was.
See, I ever lifted the pay phrase, because when I was always told me free. Maybe that was just for me, I was told that I couldn't get a pay rise
is for all the assets trying to get on air. Didn't know they play so paying
you in content that was an Instagram post. And then
I had a recruiter tell me they said, Look, if you prove yourself after the first six months, you'll be asked for 10 grand for more. Because you've been there for six months.
As I said, I'm always on 10 years. I think I have the right to ask for that.
So let's do it. Okay, so we won't slander any past radio shows if work with but
now he's got nothing to tell me.
Then you because I was travelling with Merrick. Okay. And then I last year ago last week, I moved back to Melbourne, to the Breakfast Show on Fox with him.
Right now. I'm about to scratch because I lost you for a couple of years. I was in Melbourne. I was in Sydney and Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, we literally did the opposite. Yeah. So so back together. Early morning. I think it's like the straight team.
Exactly. Right. I've got some cans of coke. I'm actually drinking
Coke Zero. Which brings me to Coke Zero vs. Coke. No sugar.
finally gonna sponsor
finally go to sponsor
breakfast breakfast hours. Yeah. How much is it? Fuck your life.
You know what doesn't? For me much like I I have massive fo mo so I like I love going at like, I love gigs.
I just like not being at home. And so I make sure that
you've got one of the best sort of bar areas. Yeah. Right in your apartment.
Yeah, it's very, I'm saying away from home to avoid that. Yeah, no, I just I just I don't not peeps, but I try and get a little bit here and there. I go to bed 10 or 11am. For
your outrageous like, I need nine hours if I if I get less than nine hours of sleep? Is it princess? Or it outside? less than eight hours? It's not ideal.
Yeah. Well, it's, it's hard to achieve when you add waking up at 4am for you, you brought
your adrenaline for a few hours. And then you get busy after the show finishes and then you get to 132 o'clock. You're done.
So now so you know a paying the show. Yeah. Well, and for anyone who is thinking that an AP roll sounds really glamorous. What like what's the What is it? How long are you having to stay in it work
changes around like I'm I get it, you know, quarter to five, scour the internet look for ideas. And then the show six to nine. And then you have meetings and action stuff that you need to do. And then usually at by like, one sometimes two o'clock. It's like a no, it's a normal work day. But then you just always monitoring I'm constantly monitoring, news, Twitter, anything like that, just for content to you know, follow up the next day
when I was in shape. I felt like it was constant even though you finish it like 12 one
it definitely is constant but I feel like I know rate I think regional must be a lot. I haven't done it, but I feel like it must be a lot. You haven't got as many people working with you. I think including out on a guys is about 10 of us. Yeah. So you know everyone's sort of like looking in the right things with enough brains to bring content in
just remember watching pulled out they do that job like that. And it's like it takes a certain like type of person to be able to just like be relentless and Hey, now does
CHANNEL SEVEN I feel like the
same sort of thing that as well. Chasing, would it be news storey breaks, scaring Twitter looking for Facebook, like finally a family friends and trying to get some on the show?
What's the best gift that you've gotten through all of that sort of stuff.
I wants to have actually my first producing job when I was on the Hot 30 the countdown show I moved up to Sydney for that is when one direction we're just taking off and they were massive and was Twitter was big. And I was just trying to find any angle to get you to speak to anyone about them. And you know you get that's great content. And I tracked down was saying it was Jane's mom through like a lot of just searching around with me on Twitter. Zions mama to the cantina at the school. So I would say back to 2am one morning to the campaign was open called and said I'm just calling for this person got on the phone and then convinced me to do an interview now
it was like you went for this you went to this effort? Yeah, sure. Right.
And each order so what's the sale to her had it
Australian radio station massive fan of the Assamese coming here soon to to a would love to you know hear about his childhood and, and she was like, Oh, sure, great
to have removed they are from you know, like he's amongst the families get he's getting and all the people around him are understanding that there's people coming from every angle, but maybe she still works in a candidate. That's it. He's not he's not funding her life on a yacht. Yeah, exactly. Right. So she's just the
canteen on the yacht.
campaign is just the name of the yacht.
Man that actually just reminded me of the remember the producers conference that you would happen. Yes. And I just remember, it just popped up. I was doing some research for another guest. And race mastodons name came up? Yes, man. Do you remember race Meston? Yeah, like what's he do it like, is he like you're very much on top of pop culture? culture. Yeah. What's it what geek level is it is doing now?
I look I've seen I think he's still working on music. I think he's doing a lot of writing. Not so much performing. I think I've seen him around doing things but yeah, I don't think they're commercial radio.
Is that this same as I'm currently building a business? Yeah,
freelancing businesses hasn't taken off yet.
Yeah, freelancing. Yeah.
He's writing a lot of songs so massive.
Yeah, pops out. She can him but I
saw some people interviewing him recently from
Lincoln Lincoln lower.
So it's all still fresh.
They're playing on the a bit of the fanboy on race Meston because he's not as you know, prominent as he once was. So
we're gonna bring race down? Let's see.
no Sam Kevin. I used to us Who is it? One of the what would you call semi nobody's Sam's role now
he's an executive producer content Flash content. National is you actually is he can call himself whatever he wants.
But he's been he's been at the forefront of some of the biggest shows absolutely radio industry in Australia. But Sam was doing a promo and he would use race mastering and did you ever seen this? I was at a
Sam interviewed race and I think we took away from it like we need to race was saying like you need to give your fans a name to remember this Yes. So it's like
yeah direction is Gaga has the little monsters Yeah.
Believers believe believe in like Yeah, he
was just saying like the cage all of this shit. I just you know, is to come up with a name. But he I feel
like it was was it mastered it?
I feel like it was something like that.
Wow. It's a real I'm sorry. My entered into a Smart fest. We don't have filters here. We don't have
homeless damn I do.
podcasting. I mean, the people talking about podcasting a lot now. But what would been over a year ago now that you did your Am I funny podcast was
like a year, a year, two months ago?
Well, that's two weeks ago. So what? What inspired you to do it?
I was looking for something to do creatively outside of work. But in the same sort of interest, so just something to work on. And I thought about maybe trying stand up comedy because I was mates with the comedian, Justin Hamilton. And we've been talking about it. And then I caught up with Sam Kevin, for dinner wants winds up in Sydney and like,
what's your audience?
I'm sorry, racist.
And I told him I was thinking about doing comedy. But then I also was talking about podcasts and just sort of occurred to me like, why don't I try and do the both and just do a bit of it was essentially I get myself a deadline to Lansdowne company performance.
And the show's called, How am I funny? Am I funny? Yeah. Awesome. I love that. We're gonna see if I told you that. This is Tommy texted you and said I love the show or something.
Maybe you did. I got a lot of those.
Funny i was
i am i funny. Well, the thing is, it's the complete opposite of this podcast. It was a
fully produced scripted, you know, but the hard thing was, I didn't realise that at the time because I did it in real time. So I would learn things but you know, catalogue it during the week, but then put it all together in a scripted package. Each weekend whilst trying to still learn comedy and plan a live stand up show. And a few other hurdles got thrown in there. the meantime,
like the one where there was the exact same showing you all
those that but also like things here, like I was looking at moving, I was moving back down to Melbourne, but I couldn't talk about that publicly because it was a new contract. And other people hadn't been moved yet. So I was stressing about moving my life while stone is podcaster right, stand up comedy and had a bit of a breakdown.
Right? What did the breakdown look like? internally?
Like a panic attack anxiety attack? Like it was, you know?
Just everything was overwhelming.
Isn't that the the reality though, for life when you creating and you've come out the other side of having made it? Yeah. And it did. Well, yeah. And it was awesome. You did an amazing job in the site, but it's still has, that always happens. Like I've found that things that I've had the most creative success with me like I can torture us in sauce. And annoying. Yeah. Josh.
It's like this this trip that I'm going on. Like I Here we go. I live I live in awake now. But I'm like, really anxious because I know that I've got this. It's going
to be anxious.
I wrote on an index. One thing I found that really helped me was actually writing down what I need to do you know, like, you just have no sense of what it is that I actually need to do before it gets the NA. Do you feel it? Like how did you work out the podcast? How did you work out what you actually needed to get done?
Like storyboarding planning. I'm a very like, I love lists. Yeah, like, I will list things I have to do even like on the weekend, like I've got these things to do. I've got to catch up with that man as well. Or I'm going to this thing seven BS. Yeah, that's it like, I'll go go right. In my producer mind, I'll go How do I fit this all in? You know, it's with tasks. And same with this podcast, I looked at how many weeks it look like yeah, and
this podcast as in doing this show, I worked out your rage.
And then how much I like you guys came up with a number and I had 45 minutes. Were
you saying Josh, the reliever of the anxiety is you
yet we do it writing process of doing it. Like the process of actually writing out has helped me tremendously. Like it's actually like, okay, I can actually place all of this stuff, it actually relays your anxiety of it,
you go Oh, it's just, once I do that, that pretty much covers that thing. And then I've got two other things to do. And it's, it's it like it. Yeah, I think visualising like, that is a great way to do it.
So you had a breakdown during the,
like a couple of alcohol mild. I've never had them before, but I assume they'll be mild. Panic slash anxiety attacks were it was just, everything was overwhelming. I just wanted to be away from people. Like, you know, just it was us. Where did it? Where did I remember it was actually ANZAC Day last year. And my mates wanted me to go catch catch up with him. And I was like, I need to do this other work. And I need to write the podcast and like just them texting going, why are you coming out? You know, doing never happened to me in my life.
Feeling the anxiety now?
At work, doing extra work, plus the podcast off and I just went, I need to go home and my housemates are away. And I just, I was at home. And actually, my ex girlfriend the time was like, Come I'll come over and I was like, You know what, I literally I can't face saying it right now. I'm just like, overwhelmed by everything. So yeah, but like a few hours later, it was kind of like I did, I just wrote it. I actually wrote it out. And I went, Okay, there's a few things I need to do. But some of them are time sensitive. I'll be fine. I can just visualise
it seems like, do you think it's the creative field is more likely to mental health issues? Or like, why is it Why is it that we're all fact?
It's a very broad question to
what we do here.
why we affect and just refund?
I don't know, I think there's a lot of pressure these days and pressure from everything time, work, everything. It's like,
is it external pressure? Or is it pressure that we create? So
I think this is
I created myself because I said, Yeah, I'm gonna do this podcast. And the point of the podcast was a totally different company before and I was like the always get to a point and go, not too hard. I'll just do it another time. But publicly saying, in seven weeks on this podcast, you'll hear my stand up comedy, whether it's good or bad, I'll do it. And so that set that limit of like afternoon,
how Tommy has one of his awesome skills is being able to capture things in the moment capture life as they happen was I realised a
scene I always, always be
noise because I've got the domain name all for content.com, which is sort of for sale. And if you are just throwing out do you want it?
Australian federal crimes?
for content or for
the state and federal crime? That's probably Yeah.
Typically, I don't have the acronym. I've just got all the content all
the websites anymore, they're all taken out. That's not how it work. I mean, you could have
like, I could create
my own acronym.
You could have a 24. I'll say it again. quite expensive. Oh, no, done.
No, but what the fuck was I just I kept your stuff in? Oh, no. Yeah, no. So okay, so Tommy, Tommy captures should in the moment, I tried it went to a brain, I went on a holiday to wi and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna be a bit of a fashion blogger recorded for like the first two minutes. I'm just like, this is too hard. How did you find what when you were creating the podcast, all of that anxiety? The panic attack probably would have been the best bit of content you get created?
Yeah, it was surreal. Yeah, that was the thing like I, I think for me, and I'm always like this, when I'm producing any sort of content, I would try. And I know what I want to try and get like I will, I'll go into my gang. Yeah, I'm probably gonna get something around that. I'm going to discuss the show. So I'm going to record my thoughts right after what what it was. And then sometimes things will pop up that you record because I hate just recording for hours and then going wherever God
Yeah, well, the pop up stuff, I think is, is the hard bit, right. Because it's the because that's the stuff that can add something completely different. But it's also meaning that you might not be going necessarily the same way that you that you intended up operating just the direction of something will change. Yeah, just the those events that Liam was talking about.
Like I one of the parts of the podcast is I originally I weeks i'd episodes, and I booked the gig venue in. And then it wasn't till the week after or during that week, Sam, Kevin, who was sort of CO producing it with me. He said, Hey, I'm going to call you record this call. And he called me and told me you've booked the wrong date. That's a week earlier. I was like a fuck. My parents were already planning to come up. My sister was flying up. And I just I just have to do one last episode. And yeah, I'm doing it a week earlier.
We found the cause of the anxiety
every single time he's got bad news. You might want to record this. Yeah, I'm like, if this is about my Nana passing my
mommy good. Yeah.
We don't have to use it. Yeah, might be really good. Hi, Sam. Hey, Guy, Matt. Matt is dead. So
what does he say again? What does it always always be content? Where's that from? What's that?
Feel like? It might be?
Bunch of that came from I think it might have been it could have been Dave Thorn comedian. Yeah. When I worked with him briefly in radio. And and when he left I gave him a I made a mark. I think you must have been saying it because I made a mug for him. That said, always be commenting on it. Every now and then I just got a text from him just holding up the mug saying a lot of content.
Yeah, I love Thor. No, he was he was the one who when I was thinking about quitting my job was like Yeah, man, just do it. He was looking at you now. Look at me in a in a job at that point. Yeah, he was at the company that I was quitting. He's just like, yeah, you'll find something else go for it. Man.
I think you learn that always be contacting when producing is like a amazing skill to have. Yeah, if you want to be a creator. Yeah, totally. I think drawing all the thing. You know, you're going to make this podcast. Yeah. It's like you're the talent but you've also got the content chops. Absolutely. Understand ending of it all. Yeah. And then so you made this show. And what how did you actually feel about because it led up to you doing stand up to the very first time? Yeah.
fact that? You don't know
why. Now, why have you done it?
I'll be I'll be honest, I could
do it is it is what he's about to say I haven't but I could
know you were listening. He wasn't. I never ever multitask. But I wanted to reference something on my phone. And I thought that maybe Tommy could have the conversation and the floor without me for him.
I didn't even ask you anything. Sorry.
What was the question that I want to bring up this fine thing?
The question was, have you done stand up? I thought you would have done that.
I I've watched stand up. And
it's very late. 90s mainstream comedy.
Yeah. Well, I was going through all my David days. I had good luck,
I guess. Can I get Did you have any more company David AIDS?
And? Yes, yes.
Did you have
Jim Allen? No, but mom and dad scared with little guys never had some biblical brothers. No.
Yes, yeah. My favourite line I'm never gonna forget it was. It was a god accent.
Was he was he Canadian? Yes. He
is. Yes. still with us.
Until Sam gives us the call. He said my god news on me.
They wouldn't do this. This is
Josh before it. Does he think he's funny? He's he? Of course I do. Yeah. Yeah. He thinks he's funny. No, but the way you talk to me then you're like, Okay, I'm surprised you haven't done stand that.
Are you very confident. You're very confident.
Now, isn't that funny?
Well, no, I don't I don't share. I don't feel like I'm finding I have fun. And you and I've had heaps of fun. We laugh when we were together. Yeah. I didn't think that you that would I didn't know that. That was somewhere you were
I've always I always want to do it. I don't think I just I'm a massive comedy nerd be comedy fan. Whether it be stand up. Yeah, movies, radio, TV, all this other stuff. But I'd always just been really intrigued about it. And I'd seen enough stand up comedy I used to go to Melbourne Comedy Festival just all the time and go to your shows when I was growing up. Yeah, start to get the points like oh, this is a kind of understand how this works. As never had the guts to apply it to actually doing it.
And how did you feel when you actually
did the stand up? I was so relieved afterwards. Like it was a blur up there. But like it was this weird thing where Yeah, it was I remember those that are we've got a lot in the back of the room. So never knew this that when you're on stage, you've got five or seven minutes where they give you a time usually flash a light in the background when you got two minutes and then like flashing again, when you got one I've heard
of taught like some on the real sort of smaller open mics I've been taught it's like Lady wants to Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
yeah, there's different types, those sort of thing. But like I didn't even I couldn't even focus on anything. I was just blindly getting it all out.
And so how long did it How long was the set for that was gonna say that's six minutes seven minutes. I've only got one beat that I think is good enough for a stand up because I wrote down in case I one day I'm interesting enough to have a memoir I've got a few ideas but I'll tell you one very quick storey and you can laugh it's funny Yeah, no i i bought a domain name the other day
they say it the Seinfeld theme in post or
someone people have said that
when anything that I think is comes out happens across the board anything that in that is funny Seinfeld's probably like come up with like any observational shit is basically done and all this involves domain names so maybe not
aware of that? Yeah. No, I am. I bought the domain name off the grid.com I actually did not you know what, it's only funny within the context of
that was the joke so
I said the joke is the The joke is I bought off the grid and I was like, couldn't believe it. Yeah, and this is a true storey This is what's annoying because the true storey and it's really funny because true. Yeah, but might not be funny if it was just a fake storey no but I bought off the grid calm my heart was beating i thought was a really great domain name and it brings looking at me like I don't know if this is going to translate
and I support is now I got the wrong
said I got the I got the the email that it was all confirmed and purchased it and I bought off the good.com
say it doesn't have this way you doing a
domain name? calm.
Good, specific niche gear.
I told Dr. Jason Fox who had on told him on the weekend in the car he got some I mean, you're in a car you have
a response I was driving.
Maybe Maybe that was part of it.
So do you think you're funny? I guess
yeah, I think I can do it like it
was and you wasted our time with the whole pod
I think it takes a massive skill but a lot of practice I could probably do it a bit more. I haven't done it since I keep saying I'm going to but I just need I probably need another podcast. Yeah, am I still find it?
I mean, what I'm getting out of this is I'm feeling a bit more confident that maybe I could do stand up I can maybe don't do essentially think that
the thing that really turned turned the corner for me was someone told me a comedian told me that it's just you know, when you go to a pub and you're talking about it and you've got nothing
Yeah, he's excluding you've
probably got classic storeys of things that happened to you and you tell that storey and then when you meet new people you are telling that storey and you tell a storey but do you remember the last time when you told it they you know you got a few reactions and you go here there's a few parts I told I told that storey really well you remember those? The way to tell a storey or you go or maybe that was flat they it's just telling that storey if you tell the storey is enough Yeah, you know the points where the laughs are going to be Yeah, it's just a matter of broadening that one audience and being
aware of it because you can have one funny joke Yeah, but you can't if we've learned anything from off the good you can't build a career off it
Canadian comedian that Harris she told me now this fellow straight to me.
She said her on by the Tommy's been mentioning
she told me when you're getting out there don't stress about being funny just be interesting. Like you want to get their attention get engaged them and if you have if they're sort of comfortable and listening to you and enjoying it, they'll naturally just laugh or enjoy it as well. Yeah,
you sounded like you were having a good time and you heckled Someone in the crowd or somebody new you drinking a be
on oh yeah I got such dry mouth halfway through I just said guys I've got really bad dry mouth if you could all just random random fools for a second I was like a drink just did not want I just and that was spur of the moment thing. And I think was will Anderson or Justin Hamilton later on said that was a cockiness thing I've ever seen. I genuinely couldn't talk. I don't want to watch people just watch me drink.
I think it's it's constant filing. Like there's such an opportunity to finally those moment socially
and so I like shamefully fail like when you get off that stage you're there in the room still there's no like site like these small comedy rooms there's no backstage, you walk up from the crowd and then you get off and you walk it back out through the crowd.
I think that that would be the my problem would be going into a shtick going into a place where again I love shooting but it's that whole trying to protect yourself by playing some sort of character we did you feel like you were
Yes, again. I was lucky with the podcast all these comedians give me advice just to do not put on a character unless that's what you're really trying to do a character because then if you are how would you react as that character to female all those things? How direct is that character? How would that character say this? Whereas I was you Be yourself unless you're going I'm doing it like a you know Chris Lewis character,
it almost has the stench of stench is such a bad word. The stench of a rebrand I've I've recently gone through a rebrand Yeah, do you have you noticed?
I like the glasses
isn't the hair isn't fully ready Brian at the moment because I only paid $15 at just cuts on
last week. It was a bit straight
go on but I
his best cards now he's
quite different that just
just got this just cuts best cuts and there's another cuts I can't remember that cuts but no I did. I did say that it wasn't a grant I saw grant Enya biscuits I think my best it was in don't don't cast a brace in regards to doing the whole comedian thing was that did you feel like that was an active was that a guy with a rebrand? Was it okay, I'm gonna become pretend
I don't want to become a comedian. I think it's something I still write down comedy now notes, but I just I just don't perform it. I just it's quite therapeutic to write these things. What am I but like
you essentially write a diary
was really funny.
Way face mentally and it's probably the time when I wanted to be a presenter but I know you made it's like, at what point do you come out and go I'm a presenter or I want to be a presenter you saying that's like that? You're leading with this thing that you're putting out to the world? I'm going to be
had myself as a digital
Tommy had on his Twitter bio digital personalities later huh? That was years later that I changed it I that was you but you only changed it like a few weeks ago.
When the time I'm talking about as in the rebrand
era you have different versions of rebrand so I had my rebrand and then I'm like you know what i i haven't if I'm going to do the hair I can't have the neck be you can't have to rebrand you can't half ass to half ass or right brand and so you learn these things where it's like oh, this thing that I actually did only works on the previous
brand for me it was more like a high it's kind of a hobby not a hobby like a an extreme sport. It's like trying skydiving. Well, you have one of the biggest re brands
you texted maybe a few Yeah. Are you tiptoeing around that? No, I'm not I'm not tiptoeing around it. I just wanted to seamless fucking what's that code?
And Tommy just said you know you coming out and
stuff in there. Yes, I was texting.
Me cut just get this part.
To this. No, but I remember.
We were planning on what's going on breaking into guy.
Does anyone want to talk for me? I'd love a chai.
We're just having a chai. chai latte thanks.
A flat white. Maybe please. I do have almond milk. Now. You can
play the song.
Yeah. This was I told brain as soon as I say get awkward with the coming up it asked for coffee. I'll get him a coffee. I said no. He's very much shy. shy. So I got a text from Leon basically you having a drinks for your birthday. Yeah. And there was clearly the point where you're like a fact Josh is gonna rock out to my birthday drinks. I'm gonna have a boyfriend and
that's going through him on so many times. There's so many different people recently.
It's like, there's so much Josh to be like, I like it. Could you? I could just imagine Leon's mind to
open things. Josh.
The biggest compliment I got was he thought that I was gonna rock up so
Leon was at the at the gym, basically. And he was like, Hey, man, like, yeah, yeah. Can we have a? Can we have a phone chat, basically. And then you said it's been it's taken me a while to work it out. But I'm by and then you've gone through it because I'd said, You said you had some news. I said, you were going to be a dad.
So another father.
What was it like? What was it? What's that whole process been like a really weird but
It's not another podcast? Is it?
Spoiler alert. That's been weird. It's like, it's just such a weird thing was a long time coming. Like I I dabbled when I was younger, and a long time
coming as a great title.
As I when I was younger, and just didn't really like it. And I also think maybe that was just like part of the growing up in the suburbs. And there were not many people I didn't know anyone really it was gay or bi or invalid Oh, and the bibs. And, and then it always sort of like, I'd had I've had girlfriends and attracted to girls and I'd say attraction to guys but never really act on it. And then there's been times where I had and then it wasn't so the
same sex marriage. stuff was coming through and, and waggon.
saying people I grew up with in suburbs posting on voting yes. And stuff on their social media. I like oh, I actually think by their they're sort of quite accepting and stuff. And I mentioned to a few of my close friends that I'd hooked up with dudes. And then I remember speaking to one of my friends who was by she had been dating chick for quite a while. And then she recently went back to a guy. And she realised she thought she was lesbian. And then she went, you know, my sexuality is quite fluid. And I'm on with a guy now. And I've never really thought about that when maybe that's what I am. And then the big day came where I changed my team to the guys and girls and just doubled all my options.
Is that how it works? double digit when it comes to Tinder and showing you males and females? Is it sort of a 5050? They go one for one?
No, I think I don't know actually how that works.
I mean, it's a good question. It's very good. Would you be like
I think it it just depends on what depends on how many people that are on it doesn't go one guy one girl. Just it just randomise him
because the thing with is it interesting. Doing the rice? Yeah, I wonder?
Like, I'm just curious about like it from a mind point of view how like, the sometimes like, one question I feel like people a lot of people would sort of like yet by or is it just this transition to being? Yeah,
it is actually, sometimes I'd thought she would be so much easier. I was just gay. Because it's still is that confusing? Like, so I've been dating a guy for like, eight months now. I think it is. And he's guy. And he's only just come out as well. Yeah. And so that we kind of bonded over that sort of thing. But there was a few times where he's like, he just not a show you not gay and I'm like, Well, I don't know. Like right now I am because I've got a boyfriend. But yeah, like, I'm still very attracted to girls. And I've had relationships to with girls in the past. And
I'm feeling these insecurities. Because when you with a girl who is a straight girl, she might look at other guys. But now there's the other 50% of the population.
Yeah, so it's like, I
feel like a bit of a switch. Like how does it work? Like using the Tinder if i doing a bit of user experience testing? Yeah. Would I? If I was if I was working for Tinder, would you suggest to that I guy and girl switch trainer? Or would you like a selection where tonight? I feel like dating?
I'm not for me doesn't really feel like it's just person to person.
Yeah. Like, it's pretty personality. You know, like, That's such a big part of it too. Right?
Do I actually like this? That's exactly right.
Yeah. It's a, I think the complexity, like you said is like people want to know, want to put you and I think it's, I think it's okay, that people want to put you in a place where they understand you. Yeah. And so I guess that's gay or straight? Or That's it?
What do you mean? What do you mean?
Like, you know, I feel right at bay. And then
yeah, I don't know. It's a hard one to especially we'd like so I telling my parents was kind of weird, because I was like, trying to explain what bias to them. Do they know what that is? Yeah. And
they were like, Yeah, we do to be w No, not like, I haven't lived by
and what was the response? It was great. They were both really supportive dad more so like, Dad, I thought dad would be because dad's like, pretty buggy into his cars. You know, we don't talk like we talk. We catch up when we catch up. He never calls me and we chat or anything like that when I do. But um, yeah, like he was he was great. Mom was great as well. But the next day dad called me and was like, on I was calling before someone died. Yeah, I was just checking in a while after the news. And I'm like, young, right? Yeah. But like, Yeah, really great. My sister. I actually I am. I got to I went to a phase where I was starting to feel comfortable with with friends and I would be drunk. I'd be drunk. And I'll go to text and just tell just because then I'll wake up the next morning. Go, that's done. It's easy. Like, yeah, just because the inhibitions are gone.
You know, ultimately,
I end up tweeting the day that the isn't December, the day that the legislation passed, I was a gig that night. And I was a bit drunk. And I thought, I'm just gonna tweet it. Because I know a lot of my friends on on Twitter, a lot of my close friends. Yeah. And it was just a good way to do it. And then I got, like so much people retweeting and tweet because that day was full of support for everyone. And then I think, my sister's friend, follow me on Twitter and told my sister my sister called me is like, Is this what you want to tell me? And I was like, Yes, sir. Yeah,
I clicked are into Twitter, because you didn't tell me until like January on something.
It's a hard thing where and now it's still in that phase where there's a lot of people haven't caught up with for a while. And if I'm bringing my boyfriend and along, like, I just hate doing that introduction, straightaway. This is my boyfriend, by the way. Yeah.
The feelings. I mean, for me, I haven't seen you in a while. Yeah. And did you think that I would know? Not that I mean, it's not like some fucking,
or maybe, because I remember telling Sam governor, that was a great experience. But like, I just assumed it was really funny. Again, I was drunk. Yeah. And we were driving back from a gig. And there's a few of us in the car, and two of them got out and I was like, I'm gonna go to a bar meet someone else. And I was gonna meet the guy was saying, Yeah, and he goes, who you meeting, and I was like, I'm gonna tell you now, I suppose I'm worried about and I felt so sorry for Uber driver for this moment. Right? I was in the back. And Sam was in the front. And I was like, Well, I'm by it. He's like, what's a bit drunk? Like? Yeah, I've started trying to say dudes as well. And he was like, hang on a minute us to pull over. So you get in the back to have a proper conversation. Driver. But um, yeah, I seen I told enough people, they would all filter back and then yeah,
and I guess my my question asking that was you thinking when you seeing someone like me, other than you probably knew would talk about it. Yeah. I wonder if they know. And do I have
around that? Yeah, sometimes. Do you reckon the panic attacks were at all connected to this, like trying to discover what was going on in your head? Or,
I don't think at that time, I was kind
of fucking about to stand up comedy.
thought about that.
Because I had a girlfriend at the time, and we actually hadn't spoken with my girlfriend.
But that wasn't really playing on my mind. That was the stress for me was that I was moving away and I just was not sure if a long distance would work. Yeah,
what so it sounds like alcohol has played a part in helping you deal with shift in the sense of like a you know, like I get
kind of has, which is like I'm not promoting it button.
It's known as a social lubricant. Absolutely.
I'm just trying to think of the headlines.
Like we can do you a service this can be like if we can get this out far and wide enough.
A lot of people are listening.
I don't think that they will. But I think
people might hit me here for the first time.
I'm going to call Leon sugar and he's now by the headline Yeah, go with that. Actually, I feel like buys too far in the headlines we have to go by sexual Leo.
It's putting it is putting this is not burying the late but
what I'm looking for the clicker option.
Bay say I say Oh, is the content
thinking that people have a lot of questions for you? Like,
is that something
sometimes? I think with by as well, I feel like it's a you know, I feel like being homosexual for a while was like a lot of questions. And now it's very common.
Well, there's been a lot more thrown into the mix. I had a 16 year old work experience kid in here for a couple of months. And she was telling me about some of her friends. Yeah, and sexual.
I have some nice questions about some of those things. I don't I'm not like anything. Like I'm not into that culture at all really? either. is like I don't I'm not really across all that. Maybe I should be but I don't know.
guys just jumped into it with
know you got a doctorate? Like what's the honorary doctorate degree? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Fuck if it doesn't make it more confusing with all these new like, feeling what you feeling is
it's confusing as hell. And I'm like, it's stupid. It's weird to think. Maybe this. This could be made from early on since I was like, a 19 or 20. Yeah. And I think maybe that's just I don't know. Well, here I am now. And so
what's the what's Have you reconciled at all from back in sort of December when you were sort of going out on versus now? coming out? Hot? Yeah. What did
I say going out? I meant Yeah. I mean,
yeah. I thought you just want to use that drinking a lot.
Thank you. For the flat want. I'm always cautious. I don't like soy milk.
So I'm always been the most important part.
And race mastering is still
on nearly studies.
Have a sip.
Are you looking at me? Thank you, Brenda. Are you know so when from December to now you've had the time to sort of reflect and maybe get to a slight amount of normality in regards to Okay, where What's the difference? Was it feel like?
It's a good question. I don't know. Just Yeah, I think maybe is that less of that anxiety of saying this person in a while today? No. Should I tell them because I, for me, I'm I don't want to have any of that social awkwardness of that, for example, for you turning up to a drinks, and me introducing my boyfriend you going? Ah, I'm wonder what? It's more so I don't wanna make other people feel awkward.
That's a pretty jokey. So it's like, I feel like in that moment, I probably I would have. The funny thing is that over text, it was like,
a lot of people didn't believe me over text. I was just,
I thought was good. Like, I think over text over phone or even just like you and I having a conversation at a party. It would be a hard one because I would feel I think I'd get hives. I feel like I get like anxious. hymes Yeah, like in them I'd get hot because I'm like, I don't know, like I want to be, I don't give a fuck. And I'm, like, supportive, and I don't mind. But like, Is there some sort of joke that's going on that I'm not that?
It's Yeah, it's so many. You don't want to fan people. And it's, it's just a really awkward, funny, weird ones. So assisting you then. So I started so my boyfriend name is from Scotland. He moved here over a year ago. And he's the same he had he's gay, but he had not come out. And he came up to like one or two people. And then when he was over here, he sort of went through that same phase of just going
yeah, I'm gonna start telling a few people. And for a brand when you go over say
that's it, you know, starting a new new country. And yeah, so we are on Tinder. And we were on a few dates. What was your Tinder bio? d? Do you feel the need when you're on Tinder to say hi, I think it was it was Yeah. Nearly by still in the
early days, with anyone you knew that would have known or had you already told people at this time?
No, I hadn't told many people. And that was for me another step of like, well, if they see me and they're looking for guys, sure, they would probably either understand or, you know, reach out and chat or whatever. But so we connected I still remember our first date. We were both so paranoid me just specifically, I was just like, all right, so if we bumped it in when we know where mates We met at Glastonbury last year, the music that we both sort of agreed on like a cover storey It was so we had each other's back. So
yeah, yeah, it was the start of a good relationship. Yeah.
Absolutely. And then.
And then I think so we dated for a little bit. And then it was kind of a week as a few people on you knew otherwise. We were just sort of like, you know, mates hanging out. And then it was his birthday. And he had a few mates from Scotland, England, because he's a doctor. So I love the doctors and that over here, when he invited me to his birthday dinner, so it's like six of us. And it was six, like five of his mates and me just a mate. He met the Glastonbury last year. And they had no idea that like, well, the glass is a perfect cover. Cover storey because that's how we connected his photos him at Glastonbury Music Festival. And yeah, so we're sitting there at this dinner and it was him his best friend who he told his housemate and then like four or five of the nights, and they had no idea I was just some night at Glastonbury and then happens to be a mountain where you move
How did you feel?
That was really quite awkward. That was like, because you were like reading all my cuz I was a bit more okay with it at the time. And he was still he hadn't told them. And so I was more for his sake, just being careful what I was saying, and my covering my backstory and all that sort of stuff.
Well, I mean, what could you have said, it's like, you know, when we fuck the whole shit?
I did it. I said it.
Like, what is the actual internal monologue? Like, what are the things that you we wouldn't just think of that you're actually thinking about that you can't necessarily say
what this is. Now, at that point, when I was
telling people, you're at the dinner, there's six of you, and you're laying on the mic, because in some regards, it's like that whole thing. If I don't overthink it, you just might, but clearly, there's going to be that thing of like, well, if I say this is going to sound too intimate, or
all those little things, I can't think of a specific specific, it but it's always like, like, why we still might be hanging out in Melbourne still. all that sort of stuff. We've
talked a bit about a movement around radical honesty, have you heard of it? So it's like these, these groups get together in a circle? And they just throw out these, you know, things have been hiding, okay. I hate Josh. radical. There is something liberating about telling the truth. Being honest, what did you find? And I guess for anyone who's going through something where they haven't talked about it? Was they like a progression of power? Or?
If it is, yes, I think it is that and I assume it, it's with a lot of people when they come out, like it's relief. I still I feel like you know, a lot of people come out and they here's a Facebook post and like it's just bang a lot of people you know, want to get that sort of thing. For me it was this scatters of things here and there like my closest friends I told a year guy that I you
know, sort of content you going for sort of the micro content strategy. You know,
I thought a long storey arc
Yeah, and then you sort of Yeah, I base it up. But I actually said to you in the one of the first things I wrote back was if I could have your coming out exclusive Did you really yeah, I gotta
say Congrats. That's so exciting. You've found someone who's your bf. I was going to ask if I can have the exclusive coming out video on my channel on YouTube. When that was the thing. The exclusive coming out video on my channel, as I do great YouTube on YouTube. I have a YouTube channel
is that's right about that now, I think.
Yeah, it would have to be
right go back in and going Australia. Yeah.
I'm hearing now is he messages you because imagine what your response to him on text message. Imagine if you found that in the moment.
How we would be pretty weird, but I think the thing is, like there's a
my point like that reaction is exactly what I saw. Like, that is actually the reaction. It's like, it's that thing of right where you can be like, I can get all tipped out like get a weird Yeah, I'm like, actually, like, how am I actually like, what am I? This is a layout lay on hasn't changed?
Like, yeah, and that's the thing to me. I've not had, I don't think I've had any negative. I don't think I've had any negatives or anything. That's felt a bit weird. Yeah. Which is so it's weird. I think that's the whole thing. stopping people doing it. It's like, people gonna think it'd be different. I think it's also think they do a bit, but I also go, but I don't think I've changed much.
It's also not knowing like, how to communicate it or what it even means to
it. Well, that's it. It's like you never even thought about that sort of ideas. Like it's, for me. It was always like, I was probably just one of the other people do you think it's just you're just saying bye, because you're not ready to admit you're gay. And I was like, I would happily admit that if I was I just Yeah, I don't. I don't think I feel 100% towards one gender.
I wonder if it's the same. In a straight, straight heterosexual relationship is that we say, across the strait relations destroy relationship. Yes, right relationship. When it's like, we official or not official. I wonder if there's a feeling from your boyfriend. That's like, I need you to say you guy so that we can
always buy anyway, first of all,
take that step across.
You leaving all these chicks on the table at the end? Yeah. And
yeah, no, no. And we spoke about that. And he's fine. But like, it's, you know, a lot of people would be an issue like it would like, as you said, make your mind up like, Well, I have chosen you as a person. Not Yeah,
yeah. I mean,
he's a doctor Scottish Dr. 110
years time. 15 years. This, like, the semantics around these things?
Absolutely. All right. There's they're disappearing. So it's,
it's fucking awesome. Dude,
do you look at it? Do you look back at the
how you've lived your life previously? And how? How do you sort of reconcile that? What does that feel like?
It doesn't feel any different. My god, I think. I don't think me if I come out as by earlier, I don't think I'd be in a different life.
Do you think that you I feel like there's some people who I've met who have come out later in life, and they've almost been sort of the one to say, Oh, geez, that's a bit guy. Or they play up sort of the antagonist to homosexuality. Yeah. D? Do you think that there was any of that, that you were like, a desire to go into bro ish culture and to think like that, or try and be more like something now? Yeah,
I don't think so. Always been pretty true to myself. And I don't really adjust to to make it any different. I just, it's just a different label. Now suppose.
I mean, there's no thought this is a thing, right? So for me, it's like, I've never once thought anything about your sexuality or your sexuality. Yeah. And I think the people that you know, when you're straight, they're not thinking about it. when something comes up, then people think about it. Totally. It is a bizarre, and that's just culturally from growing up. Like I remember using gay a lot. When I was a kid. I'm sure you fucking did, too. I probably did. Yeah. And it's only because I probably did.
We've all done it. We both said it was all done it
being in a 16, and I was getting a Lyft. Back from the party in Coburg, a friend of mines dad, and there was three of us in the car, and her dad was driving. And if you've ever heard a gay man, like, you know, the guess, how someone would put on a guy a person's voice not doing a stereo stereo, defensively stereotypical voices simply stereotypical gay voice? That was him. And I knew his ex wife because they weren't together. Yep. And he's gay. And I said to her, and I'll six data has probably been a bit rude. I said, hang on. So you're telling me you never thought he was gay? And she said, and she said to me? No. He was from Europe. To me, but I look back on that it's like that kind of safe to two different young key being offensive to this lady is quite funny.
And that's all you have to say. When you introducing your boyfriend. Now. He's just from Europe. It's the
perfect cover storey Yeah, I'm off to Europe. Nothing. Nothing in that everyone. Can we?
Can we finish a bit off this topic? And the time that you interviewed a guy, I think was a guy or a girl. Yo, because you had another podcast, another podcast. You know.
We had a podcast that was so successful before way before podcast, but I would have been nine years ago, we had a huge following, again, was called the boardroom, the boardroom with Jackie. Jackie Brown step.
Nothing's backing change using the asca all the studios and
stuff. Yeah, we're all employees of the company hair perfect. And it was essentially it once a week will all come with one topic and usually it would be something that's a bit you know, controversial or just a bit filthy. And the been absolutely no, no, no limits. And we did the podcast for a while and it got to the point where literally, we had a client get on board sexy land was paying us to give out it was when 50 Shades of Grey was first popular to give out like little mini dominatrix kits to listeners who brought us the filthiest erotica, man.
I know. There was one episode which are the dolphin this season
two when we
got really excited. Like I remember this is how much you you'll be editing of the podcast, but
none of it none of us zero. Okay, so this goes back to when I loved chasing guests going, I'm going to track down this person and get them on the show. I'd read this weeds. Click by the article about a god it relates to book a book and I thought I read the article. I thought this can't be real. But I found his name with a long list and search and and see if I can get him on the show. Did he work in campaign? His name is Malcolm j Brenner. Yeah. And he released an a book, cold wet goddess recollections of a dolphin lover. And what is that? Had a six month sexual relationship with a dolphin at SeaWorld in San Diego in the 80s. Believe the author did the author did Yes. So it was his retelling of the that one summer? Wow, no one's optioned for film yet. But um, yeah, it's pretty remarkable. He was so blown away about how he spoke about it in detail like a night we were asking questions that were like, is it got anything to do with the blowhole? Or
was hilarious. So one of the things that stood out for me this nine years ago, or eight years ago that I listened to it was when he said you can't make a 200 or 300 pound creature have sex with you? That's actually a fucking good point.
Because he was it was all around the dolphin.
I've just got a photo for you. Holy moly. Now
put a link to the Can we put it is a podcast still? I
know. Well, here's the other thing is a boss heard that from the company and said, Look, the podcast not that interview. There's some stuff on there was a bit filthy. And you know, and he said, Look, it's very funny. A lot of you doing something creative.
Yeah, that was a positive.
But if someone took that and you know, print it in black and white, out of context, it could be pretty offensive. So we have to stop it.
So how many episodes did you do?
I reckon about
30 something 40 something.
How do you feel looking back?
I still listen to them every now and then. And then. Funny. Yeah, one day I will just release them for the sake of releasing them. Right. So you took them all down? We had to take them all down. Yeah.
Well, you might lose your job soon after this.
I will sell as
Kathy I'm sure that there wasn't a paraphrase at all.
Yes, game spaceship money. That's awesome when I'm back there. Yeah, maybe they could sort of do
the Jimmy grants guy. The good guy was the guy who had to pay all the who's the George knows your
money back because he was
Josh, we looked into it. You actually asked money.
We looked at the CCTV footage, we really you chatting with jack post. It wasn't a production meeting. actually remember that. I remember. My boss, Michael Eva coming in and sat Josh, you have been sitting in that room with jack for four hours. And I said, we're talking about
that was it. I quit. I quit guys, but
it's the daily talk show everyone you can send. Send your emails to height, the daily talk show.com. And this style of the show is that people aren't just guests, the Friends of the shark. So we will if Leon will come back, I guess we'll have a lot of time after the firing
around the corner.
And we can maybe we could maybe get the got the dolphin guy on again and say hey, can we do you know what we should do? We should try and have him on again. But say look, it's a G rated show. Yes.
Come on and just stay anonymous.
And listen to Leon's podcast.
Yeah, yeah. Am I funny? Yeah, feel free. Thanks, guys. Bye.