#905 – New Media & Content Consumption/
- November 6, 2020
We chat about our Fat Fridays order, David Letterman and new media, talk show content on streaming platforms, Spotify, royalties, licensing and supporting local.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
- Our Fat Fridays order
- Westfield’s new dining precinct
- Kim Kardashian on David Letterman & new media
- Talk show content on streaming platforms
- Spotify and royalties
- How we consume content
- Licensing and distribution rights
- Supporting local
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:00] It's the daily talk show episode 905
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:08] happy fat, Friday growing. So what's happening. What's going on?
Josh Janssen: [00:00:11] So, uh, you suggested this one today.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:14] Well, I can't take credit for it. Jess Lucas, she has, um, sent me an Instagram DM a few days ago with a article to McDonald's releasing a brand new McFlurry.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:29] It's a donut project.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:31] It is, this is, it is a donut ball McFlurry. It, it also has in it hot fudge sauce and Oreo bit.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:43] Yes, it's perfect. I'm smelling it now. It smells like cinnamon donuts.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:48] Oh, it smells like the South Melbourne market. As a kid, mum would get me a full bag, full bag of cinnamon donuts
Josh Janssen: [00:00:53] smells a little bit like,
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:55] um, fresh cheese.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:56] Yeah. Or like your local donut shop. Okay. Can we start?
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:01] Women's vis tall? Isn't it? I mean, you, you put it on savory. Sweet. Does your eye go teas if he's going a whole bowl, get that bowl into your son. Mm
Josh Janssen: [00:01:11] mm. Good. Happy with that is a great product.
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:19] Happy with the texture of the donuts. That's where it would fall over because they've tried and tested the Oreo McFlurry.
And, um, and hot fudge on it is only an additional winner. Hey, look, it's not all about McDonald's. So Josh, uh, if there's one reason for you to venture out of your house in the coming weeks for some personal time, I think it's to visit Xapo Doncaster shopping center, your
Josh Janssen: [00:01:47] what's going on at Xapo
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:49] D Hey, you have done a renovation.
On the food court, there is, there's now
Josh Janssen: [00:01:55] two food courts.
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:56] This is a top level food court. High-end restaurants like cook, like, you know, those like, um, I don't even know the name of it, uh, where you have like a hot plate in the middle and you can actually cut up your own stuff. Chuck, on your own. Mate's never been, hence why?
I don't know the name of it.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:16] Like a Korean barbecue sort of thing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:17] Yeah. Yeah. They got that. And then I've got. Probably four or five other high high-end restaurants. These were packed by the, and I went the other day.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:26] Is it new village? Cinnamon's upstairs,
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:30] upstairs, but they've completely renovated the joint.
So when you walk in TGI, Friday's has an outdoor area where you can dine than indoors. It is pumping. Like we went on Melbourne cup day Bodhi and I went for a little adventure and then he said, shopping centers open. And so we, I cut across traffic line to get in there
Josh Janssen: [00:02:56] and we were not planning on going there
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:58] now.
We were going somewhere else and then he spotted it and just this one was a parking lot. I got one of them within two seconds. I was like, I deal, I do always think when you get someone and get somewhere. Quickly again, it part quickly that could have been the difference of this being a nightmare day and a horrible experience at a shopping center.
Versus I feel like the stars have aligned at that point. And you start looking for those moments. You just, you know, it's, God's on my side, you just go full Kanye on it. You know,
Josh Janssen: [00:03:33] this McFlurries, Greg talking about, um, Kanye. Uh, Kim Kardashian West is on David Letterman's Netflix series. Have you seen this?
It's so good.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:47] I really liked Kimmy. K.
Josh Janssen: [00:03:48] Yeah. Did you watch the, um, the S how, how crazy was the CVS integration?
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:55] Do you think, are you saying from a brand perspective or
Josh Janssen: [00:03:58] like CVS must have paid big bucks to have that? Yep. I think they would have funded that, that whole episode.
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:07] Well, I like it. It's like an interview show, sit down, cutting between them doing some activity.
Robert Downey jr. They're feeding his pets on his Malibu farm Kim shin. Wouldn't let them in the house, but we'd only do a brand deal at CVS.
Josh Janssen: [00:04:23] Yeah. I mean, that's, I assume that's what it was, but yeah, it was interesting. She spoke about the, um, you know, being held, uh, At gunpoint for, um, for a jewelry that was a bit hectic
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:36] full on.
She she's, she's a smart woman. Um, I think you're forced to think about how much money they're managing as a family and the business and the interest, which where there's like no hiding for them growing old on a reality show. And so what they're deciding to put out, she had some really interesting perspectives.
How was Kanye West in the audience?
Josh Janssen: [00:05:01] Just with the audio sunglasses? I mean, I don't know. I feel like a mr. 97 would agree here on this one. David Letterman. I don't think he's that great. If an interviewer of a comedian or anything for guy who's been doing it for a really long time. I understand that it's sort of shtick, but at the same time, it's just.
There's a lot of, uh, awkward moments.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:28] Well, if you look at a committee, if you were to compare from, so I guess you can only really compare from, uh, night show hosts or, or, or show hosts. Right.
Josh Janssen: [00:05:40] Because they're all a bit awkward. Armo
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:43] Jimmy felon.
Josh Janssen: [00:05:44] Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:45] Like, I, I kinda, you either like their version of awkward, I mean, Conan O'Brien Jimmy felon.
Josh Janssen: [00:05:55] yeah. Ellen DeGeneres. Isn't that awkward? It's just probably one that's. Yeah, sort of, uh, yeah. Yeah. I just, I just get the vibe when I watch these things where there's maybe too much. A wham awareness. Maybe it's the, the big audience as well.
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:12] Why we can let them in, he's not bad in respect to his peers at that level.
Yeah, I think we're. Is it seen as a comedian, because then you look at Dave Chappelle and you go well, because David Chappelle was on his Netflix series just recently. And you should hear the kindest words from Dave Chappelle about what it meant as a young comedian to be on a show like David Letterman and.
And then that's where it's like, I don't think we're not talking about having respect for what he's achieved. He's done so much. He's the guy that started the show and he thought it would be canceled in a week. And next minute, he's, it's the biggest show of that time. One of the biggest shows of that time, Jay Leno was another one.
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's where they fall into. I don't think they're comedians as such, but
Josh Janssen: [00:07:02] even as interviewers, like when you watch it, are you like, this is. This is the best interview.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:09] He's one with Dave Chappelle was really good,
Josh Janssen: [00:07:12] which I think it comes down to this mutual respect thing. Right. Because there is the sense of, okay, you need to build rapport quickly.
And so on stage, they're trying to be sort of best friends. I feel like Oprah does a really good job with interviews.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:27] Yeah. Yeah. Well it's because she gives white cars and then everyone forgets what's happened, but like it driving.
Josh Janssen: [00:07:33] But there is like that little bit of sort of, yeah, there's the awkwardness.
And then also the, um, the reversal of things too, like in the Kim Kardashian conversation, he was sort of almost apologizing for some of the things that, or sort of the way that she was treated by people like him. Um, yeah, just so you know, it's an interesting watch that are definitely worth checking out on Netflix.
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:01] I mean diff the game of landing, uh, 45 minutes. I mean, they probably filmed for an hour and a half and then they've cut it hard to get land a solid show. This is where he talks about just being so laser focused, like the, the, you know, the blinkers on and, and it affected his other areas of his life. Like he was an alcoholic, had to quit drinking.
Like, they're all kind of like highly, highly motivated laser focused individuals that are in a cutthroat industry where everyone's like, Oh, I couldn't handle it.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:38] Yeah. Not many people, like not many people that are having those roles. You can count on two hands. How many people have gotten to that point when it comes to talk shows.
But I just think that it's, um, you even say Kim talks about. Uh, yeah, the lack of understanding or knowledge of. Of Dave, uh, David Letterman, which is sort of a funny moment, like he is old school.
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:03] Yeah. I think there's Ryan, John really loves him. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. But then it's like you call Ron John the game show host.
It makes the sense of like he's aspirational for a period of time. Not as much now. I kind of, I kind of probably resonate with him more now he's old stuff. Cause he's like a fumbling older guy that's trying to work out. The new landscaping is a bit, a bit out of it. And so that's, it's, isn't that funny?
You become more relatable as you become less equipped for the, the current time.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:39] I think part of it is that he's had to like to be, to remain. Relevant, but there are a bunch of people who are, or would be considered that sort of modern celebrity that really want to get in that talk show game. Like, um, David doebrick, he's always spoken about wanting to host a late night show.
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:01] Yeah, I'm sure he's the kind of guy that would when he's got 20 million. Isn't that sorry. As I say that he's got 20 million subscribers. He has a light notch. He just film it night at your house and you have a bigger, late night show than any talk show host in the world,
Josh Janssen: [00:10:19] the whole network thing, right?
Like it's, it's about being on NBC or CBS or being on, you know, one of those big networks and having the, you know, dressing up in a suit. But even there is the, um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:33] I mean, you'd love it. You didn't have to think about what you're wearing because David Letterman said, I didn't think for 20 years about what I'd have to wear rocks up in some daggy number to the Chappelle interview.
He says that.
Josh Janssen: [00:10:43] Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what the, uh, I feel like in this format, podcasting, this is perfect for me. I feel very lucky that I've grown up in a time where this is the first thing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:57] Yeah. What will it become? What will. Will podcasting be the David Letterman thought that way.
Josh Janssen: [00:11:05] Okay. So look at, um, look at things like, so, so when it comes to modern talk shows, look at like a hot ones, the chicken wing show.
Yep. There's an example of a modern talk show, but it's actually really good interviews, but there's heaps of people that are trying to be like the Howard Stern's like even Logan, Paul, that style of show. Hmm, sort of their Reese or even H three H three, their podcast. Yeah. There's um, yeah, a lot of examples where people are obviously taking inspiration.
I think that for us, I definitely have looked at, you know, Howard Stern's, you know what, whichever way you sort of see the content that he he does or how, how you sort of reconcile that he was, he was very sort of revolutionary when it comes to. Multimedia production. So having a show that was writing extremely well within the context of radio, but then they were doing a TV format as well.
So they would be filming the episodes and creating content for E the channel.
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:14] Yeah. Um, and then there's people now that have no idea who, uh, someone like
Josh Janssen: [00:12:21] stern is stern is,
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:23] which is crazy because. I mean, he's, he has a huge audience, I guess. It's you don't need everyone knowing who you are. You just need a select few people, but I guess that's where some of these older styles will stay around because people like David doebrick have built something in a new way.
So the vlogs and the YouTube that then gives him the power. To influence the style. And so Logan Paul doing his talk show style, you know, when he's flying V desk where it's, you know, it gives it, it, he he's controlling what type of shows getting put out to his people.
Josh Janssen: [00:13:11] So the content are you watching, like, um, remember how many vlogs we used to watch?
Yeah. Going back five years or four years. Are you watching many blogs in 2020?
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:21] Uh, no. I, I kind of go in and out of just checking to see what, um, what, what is actually going on. So there's like, have you heard of those? DeGolyer fuck. I forgot the name. The, the most famous Tik TOK girls, sisters. Tik TOK sisters, Tik, TOK, sisters.
They have their own channels. Dixie de Emilio is the oldest sister of Tiktaalik biggest star Charlie. Um, so they, they, their dad is their CEO and these two have just blown up on Tik TOK, but now they have YouTube channels. Now they're doing interview shows on their YouTube channels.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:03] What's a content like, have you watched it?
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:06] Yeah, it's not for me. I think that one of them lives in that hype house. Do you know what the hype house is?
Josh Janssen: [00:14:11] No.
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:12] Oh, Jason, Dundess shout out to Jason over in LA, uh, holding down the Fort with Dundess media he's um, did a interview with one of the girls who lives at the hype house. This is a,
Josh Janssen: [00:14:23] is it like a 2010 sort of thing for
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:25] stories, the mansion in LA in the Hollywood Hills.
And there's like 17 kids living there, hype house LA. And so this is where they create. Oh, it's got a photo of it. It's got the exact, I'll give you the 6,425. We'd like drive Los Angeles. Like it's literally just in Google hype house. You can see it. It's ginormous. How long have they had
Josh Janssen: [00:14:51] it for?
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:52] I think it's been around for quite some time.
Los Angeles hype house, the physical location of a new content creator. Collective is a Spanish style mansion perched at the top of a Hill on a gated street in Los Angeles. Uh, it's got a pool with enormous kitchen dining living squares. Okay. So it's actually hype house is the physical location and then there's people come in and out of it.
They live there. They create content. Oh my God, New York times.com. I'm looking at this, just all these pimply faced 18 year olds doing selfies in their living room. It's
Josh Janssen: [00:15:29] bizarre. It sort of reminds me of you. Remember that book that I got the photo book, um, the, uh, generation wealth. But that it was like a gold book that I got, I got delivered to the office.
It's got all these old photos from the nineties. It's great. There's all these rich kids, including the Kardashians. And, you know, the Hilton's, it's, it's really interesting, but it reminds me of a lot of this sort of stuff, which is just like a scene, because I guess that is that the scene. Now, like a Tik TOK is like Tik TOK is going to restaurants and
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:11] there's a steak house in LA where Tik TOK is have overrun it Tik TOK, steak,
Josh Janssen: [00:16:17] house
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:18] LA.
And so they're all going there to get. You know, uh, boa Bauer, boa steakhouse is the eatery of choice for allies, Tik, TOK sane. And so-and-so, I mean, what it does is those, I mean, that, that restaurant I've known F for ages, I'd never been there, but it's, but it's been very popular, but they would be. I guess they're helping some businesses.
What a weird thing mentioned being in that as a 17 or 18 year old kid, like for me in there. Would have been horrible, but I think some of them maybe they're like actually really focused on creating content. They don't drink that. That's what I hope the situation is that they're actually just,
Josh Janssen: [00:17:01] it's just like good time, but they have to
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:04] cooking nerdy content creators.
Like they're just obsessed,
Josh Janssen: [00:17:09] but I don't know.
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:11] Do something to your ego for a
Josh Janssen: [00:17:12] little while. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder also with the, um, With where everything's going with, there'll be more sort of a distributed media landscape where it's, everything's not just coming out of Hollywood or, you know, these big, you know, Howard stern.
Out of New York or like it's sort of New York and Los Angeles for the longest time have sort of been the place to be
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:37] for those. But then you hear, so Dave, Dave Shapiro, Ben Shapiro, the daily wire, I think that's his business or he's
Josh Janssen: [00:17:45] moving to Tennessee or
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:48] their business makes nearly 20 million bucks a year.
He just, he just referenced that by saying we're removing our revenue, that we're making 20 million bucks a year to. Moving to wherever he's going out of the state, but that's a big business and you don't know where that is from. Like, it's just a set. They build out their sets and it's all about politics and talking talk shit.
Josh Janssen: [00:18:11] What has been the biggest sort of scam with all of this stuff for so long is that we have thought that you have to be in these major cities to be able to do this stuff. But thanks to, in some regards the pandemic. People working from home. It's like, ah, like it's fascinating to think about the, um, the late night shows how long they were just doing poor quality content from home, rather than doing a really high production value offering at home.
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:43] And, and you know, how much pain that we're in production tape. If, if a network that pays their hosts, you know, 20, 30 million bucks a year, it's putting out zoom quality content
Josh Janssen: [00:18:57] to be,
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:57] you know, something's gone pear shaped they've bit a budget needed to be pulled.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:02] One interesting thing is that, um, we haven't seen a streaming platform yet doing talk show.
Content. Hmm. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:14] Netflix.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:16] Yeah. So think about it. Like what, where would you go potentially in the States? There's things like Hulu, not sure what the deal is with that, but there's no real sort of solution that we have right now that plays into sort of that daily talk show content. Like where does that see it?
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:34] D it's annoying, but Spotify I've been enjoying just the experience of watching Joe Rogan. Like sometimes I just wanted to listen to it and I've clicked on to him through Spotify. Just trying to get myself into that pattern when they remove it from podcasting, the podcast app or the podcasts apps, and you literally press on it, swipe up watching the video, I'm going close it, put it in my pocket, jump in the car.
It's still playing in my ears.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:02] There's no doubt they're doing a good job. Like Spotify are leaders in the space, but the problem is that when you have. A monopoly or when you have a few or when we all think that this is going to be the savior, I mean, YouTube to a certain degree, they seem to be, I feel like that's an untapped opportunity because they have had with premium the ability to, you know, get out of the, um, the video and have audio only.
Um, I think potentially even, I can't remember one of the big streamers, I think maybe Netflix. Is bringing that feature as well. Being able to just listen. So you like
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:39] want the, they want the experience to be thinking about what is the content on their documentaries films specials. It's like once they start entering into allowing you and I to have our own Netflix Netflix channel
Josh Janssen: [00:20:56] they're in trouble.
Well, I mean, so there's a, there's an article that I, that I was rating. Um, uh, just the other night. About what Spotify is doing with their royalties. Uh, so Spotify, uh, giving positions the opportunity to reduce, uh, I would just, I would just read an actual quote this from the next web. Um, uh, last night, the streaming company announced a tool that allows artists to get more reach.
In exchange for lower royalty rates, Spotify says artists or record labels can choose the song they want to promote. And this is quoted from Spotify. In this new experiment, artists labels can identify music. That's a priority for them. And our system will add that signal to the algorithm that has determined, personalized listening sessions.
This allows our algorithms. To account for what's important to the artists, perhaps a song that they're particularly excited about an album anniversary, they're celebrating a viral cultural moment they're experiencing, or other factors they care about. So what, uh, Spotify is saying here is take less where we're not gonna give you the royalties that the same royalties that you normally get in exchange for us.
Doing a little tweaking of the algorithm and pushing the music to people. And so what we're seeing here is this is the concern that I've got with the podcasting. This is the concern with, uh, us putting all of our eggs in one basket. This is this good for artists. Is this good for creators?
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:40] Yeah. Fresh creators, young creators, maybe not.
Most likely not, definitely not like that.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:47] So then how do you, um, yeah, so how do you, how do you get ahead? How do you, um, you know, and so these are the things, I mean, I don't think it's on the scale of, uh, weariness. Like it's, it's not a huge issue, but what this says, what this shows. Is a willingness for companies like Spotify just to, uh, you know, get paid less and we'll, we'll tweak a few things.
And I think that at its core, it's, um, it's a worrying. And then you think
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:21] about what that could mean for putting them all in the company's pocket. Yeah. It's um, it's, uh, you're paying to advertise your music. They're playing
Josh Janssen: [00:23:30] their already, not even advertising though, is it? It's actually, it's a next step.
It's it's saying, Hey, you want to, um, you want to get into the Spotify radio stuff, just pay your way. Uh, and so, yeah, there's, I think that it's, it's a little bit problematic, but I do wonder what will be the way that we all consume content. When we get back into. Driving our cars, you know, doing our long trips or being in the, um, uh, you know, being in traffic, going to work.
What's our solution going to be?
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:07] I was one of the things on YouTube I was watching was, um, this guy who was just. Talking about features in these Tesla. He's like this young, young age garden. I, where to get the money from him. He doesn't seem like he's really wealthy, but he's dropped like 80 K on a specked out, specked out car electric car.
But God, I enjoy his little videos about this is, you know, and this is how you open the thing. This is how you close all the doors. He's all that he's top three features that I hate in my Tesla. This shouldn't be here. This should be over here. It's like, I wanted a Tesla by the end of it, really deep.
Josh Janssen: [00:24:44] And the other thing there's going to be other companies that are going to move more and more into this space as well.
So device handover, going from your home, going to the car, it being a seamless, uh, experience. When I think about Australia, how many the Australians do we have that, uh, at the forefront of digital content? How many, how many vloggers do we have in Australia?
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:15] Because I didn't get pushed to any of the Australian ones, Alex Hayes.
I don't know. There's a few that it's because they're knocking around in social circles that I see their stuff through Instagram or something. Yeah. And so, no, there's no, there's nothing to that. Degree of Logan, Paul or David doebrick in Australia at all, unless they're niched. So they, audiences might feel super engaged, but not to the masses, like the Logan Paul's of the world.
Josh Janssen: [00:25:47] Yeah. I mean the, the, the algorithm stuff is interesting too, because even with our show, we've turned on, uh, mid rolls in YouTube. So if you're watching on YouTube and you don't have premium, you'll get an ad. And the crazy thing is. That I've noticed since doing that, our podcast is appearing way more in the recommendation, in the recommended section in YouTube, which makes sense from a business perspective, what it's saying is it's like, hang on.
If we have all of this content, do we want to show a video? That's got no mid role that we can't make money off as a company. Or do we prioritize within our algorithm to show people content that has the most amount of ads that we then make a, make a profit from. And so I think that the answer will be a real mixed bag.
I think that what we could do is have a direct Ted listener director audience solution. So I can imagine the next two years, there's a way to support the daily talk show. But then also potentially not, you know, deal with ads if you, if you choose a bunch of those different things. But, uh, hopefully, uh, innovation happens in this space in the open way, in that, you know, in sort of the open web sense, rather than just all of us jumping on.
To a proprietary solution.
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:18] And then everyone won't think about not everyone, but there'll be a lot of people that will never think about that. And just do what feels the easiest, like opening Spotify and seeing the video. Like that's all I'm talking to is like the ease. I didn't even think about watching the video and I'm watching the video.
Josh Janssen: [00:27:34] And so that's a thing of, you know, governments so that the government has restrictions around how much. Or, you know, expectations around how much local content there needs to be. If you've got, um, you know, a radio frequency, things like that, and those things don't exist for these big tech companies. And so what does that mean?
What is the, what does it mean for the content that we consume? What does it mean for our local media industries? What does it mean to culture? Are we just sort of. Is there a huge sort of homogenization happening where yeah. Like you can't distinguish between Australian culture and American culture because we're just all consuming that content.
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:21] Oh, you're watching so much American content and you live in America that you think there's nowhere else outside of America. It is the country. It is the world. Imagine if they started doing something like. The fame lotto, where they, like
Josh Janssen: [00:28:35] you put in the minutes of fame sort
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:37] of thing, that vine, where they just get absolutely the floodgate open some algorithmically on YouTube, where they just push you into everything every way for something.
And so, I mean, that's the reality they could absolutely make. Or break somebody you'd probably break their mind, but it doesn't mean that it would stick after it, but it's like, it is the classic 15 minutes of fame. It's like a period in time. I don't think they're going to do it. I think people are trying to win the fame lotto by posting and hitting
Josh Janssen: [00:29:12] or playing, hang to an algorithm.
Right. Like playing to what is going to be served up. What is our thumbnail? All of these. Different elements. Um, yeah, I remember in 2011, I worked on a film called fat sick and nearly dead where I was the community manager and I contacted YouTube and ended up at YouTube, Google, Australia, and Sydney. And we organized for, it was a feature length documentary.
It was on Netflix, in the U S at the time. And we wanted us to push it out to as many people as possible in Australia. And so for 48 hours, uh, the V the F the film was on the home page of YouTube. They had something quite, I don't know if it still exists, it was called spotlight, and it just had that video.
And so the thing is, that's a lot of power. There's a lot of power in. Um, you know, being able to flick some switches. And so I don't know what the answer is because as consumers, we obviously want the thing that is best for, um, the spirit, like what is the user experience?
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:21] What's easy. What feels good?
Josh Janssen: [00:30:22] Yeah.
And this is the problem with content in general at the moment is it's like for me to be able to watch the content that I want to watch, it is an absolute pain in the ass.
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:30] Yeah. Well, you got to go to the dark web because
Josh Janssen: [00:30:35] I mean, this is a bit seriously, like the, the issue around licensing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:39] What are you watching?
What are you watching?
Josh Janssen: [00:30:41] What's all that now it's like all the, um, everything from the CNN sort of like, so the, the S the news sort of streaming staff for there's so much content, even like films and TV there's it's so sort of fragmented. It's, you know, it's, you know, all these deals, all these exclusivity deals.
It's forcing us to have Disney plus have Apple TV. Plus have Stan have Netflix have doc play have CuriosityStream like the, like, no joke. How many, how many, Hey you, and this is, I think like there was just so many and I'm, I'm just always shocked at how hard it is to. Get the content that I want in an easy format that the problem is licensing.
So the problem is that that somewhat makes something in the U S and the, you know, Australia seems like this, you know, far away place. And so they sell the distribution rights. And so they're like the, the, the people who, the studios that, that made it, that they sell it on to someone else to, to look after.
And so then they make a heap heap of money through that. So then they have to protect it. So they have to protect from a licensing perspective. And so I feel like we've got so many old school layers. I'll tell you what stopped,
Tommy Jackett: [00:32:07] what was easy when you just wanted to watch something like ours, which was this show about jail and you couldn't get it anywhere in Australia.
It's probably 2000 and 2000. Four. And I went on eBay and I found the box set. It was obviously a rip off version, but I got it from overseas and it came and it was like in a book, like hard cover, open and up. And it had all slaves and I got like four, whatever, the full seasons, all seasons of this show called Oz, which, um, Which I mean,
Josh Janssen: [00:32:45] it was just a play because the thing is the regions.
Tommy Jackett: [00:32:49] Yeah, no, I check my regions. I checked my regions. Didn't know what it meant, but I checked for the right one and my DVD player played it. So I watched Oz, but I mean, that was that's the thing went back in the day. Like that shows probably on one of the streaming services now years and years later, like Dave Chappelle's show the Chappelle show.
Is is just been licensed to Netflix when, how much money has been made there?
Josh Janssen: [00:33:16] Well, the thing is, this is like talking about the Howard stern stuff. He was on terrestrial radio. So it was just on the radio that you tune in. And then a Sirius XM is a satellite service. So think about like, um, cable law, you know, cable, TV, but radio and where you have to have a subscription and Sirius XM paid a huge amount of money, a hundred million dollars to get Howard on.
The network, because the thing is he had built an audience. And so he ended up reducing his audience in a big way, but everyone that listened, we're paying subscribers. And so that's the, um, and, and I guess this is happening. You look at something like Spotify. And so what they will say is they'll say we're not charging.
We're not like we're not charging for you to listen to the podcast. And it's, that goes back to the thing. If you are. Not paying for the product, you are the product. And so what this means is that you, you not only are you getting fed ads, but also Spotify can be like, okay, what are we, what let's tune this up?
What do we want them to see Spotify going to be? If, if we create a narrative that you can, I can get every podcast on Spotify, think about how much of our experience. How often when you go on Instagram, do you actually go to individual people's profiles? How often are you actually doing that versus having the algorithm push you and say, Hey, check out this person or this, like the algorithm is controlling, what we're thinking about.
And so the transaction that we're making is that say, Hey, get this content for free, but then eventually we're going to control what you listened to. Whether you, whether you know it or like it, and the thing is that you'll, you won't even know it because you'll say, Oh, I just saw this thing or the thing just came up, but this is, this is being, this has been created by a machine.
This is, which is connected to someone who's, you know, tweaking things to make sure that they can make the most amount of money. And yeah, I think that there's this huge risks that we need to worry about.
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:31] Huge danger. Try for a moment. Maybe you do this, but when you're on YouTube, don't, don't look at anything.
It suggests you or, or the discovery tab. And then you get Dauphin doing that, trying to consciously do that. Fuck. I don't wanna have to think about what I'm typing into the search, but then you start to type something in that you're thinking that you can come up with not what they come up with. It's but you realize the friction in that moment that they've solved, which is don't worry.
I got this
Josh Janssen: [00:36:00] my round only, but not only that it's still going to, um, even if you search yeah. They're controlling the search results, except for you type in Seth Goden. Spotify will just show you a Spotify original with Seth garden. And this is the, this is the problem. There's no way. And so I think that the only, what is the solution is just being diversified in our approach.
It's, it's the same reason why the convenience of Amazon and all that. So I think it's all well and good, but there is still a case for, we need to be shopping local. We need to be supporting local. We need to be doing all those sorts of things.
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:39] Well, we've done that today. We've shopped at our local maps,
Josh Janssen: [00:36:42] Uber eats and McDonald's absolute fucking local friends.
We should do it. Maybe. Why don't we set that challenge? Why don't we do fat Fridays from now until the end of the year? It's the fat Fridays local. Yep. And we're actually paying for it. It's not like we're fucking going out, asking small businesses to give us fucking free stuff because we pay for our McFlurry.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:06] yeah. So does that mean, what about like, if it is a subway,
Josh Janssen: [00:37:11] subway Subway's off. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:12] Okay. Yeah. It's more just like boutique, like. Harry's milk bar or,
Josh Janssen: [00:37:17] you know, whatever that looks like. Right. Love it. Alrighty, everyone. Enjoy your Friday. If you like the show, please give us a review on Apple podcasts.
We love saying them also share on Instagram. What I would recommend is maybe screen grabbing the podcast app you're at watching with the daily talk show, playing, write something nice. Tag us up.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:37] Yeah. Let's pull into our rabbit hole.
Josh Janssen: [00:37:39] Exactly. I would appreciate that. Otherwise I enjoy day. We'll say tomorrow guys have a good one.